Regenerative Meat Could Save Your Health (and the Planet) | Autumn Smith

23:51Like, you know, the mineral content can vary by like 4 to 18 percent. And when it comes to antioxidants, polyphenols, like 100 times, you know. So it's just huge intra variability, even within a one product situation. So how do we let people decide and get back to that? The core of what we need is those micronutrients. And so then what we did is the Beef Nutrient Density Project. They started with beef because it's one of the most commoditized products out there. But they wanted to categorize that variability because you can have factory farmed meat, obviously. But then there's so many other flavors.

24:23There's grass fed and then there's beyond grass fed. There's regeneratively raised meat. So there are 300 samples from all across North America. That was the cool thing about this project is it was so diversified in locations the beef came from. But also they're commercially available. So it wasn't this like very stoic, highly controlled scientific setting. It was the foods and the products that you'd actually have access to. That people are eating. That people are actually eating, that you'll see out in the marketplace. And so what we found is I think like five major things. First of all, the metabolomics is a big deal because we're often looking at 13 nutrients on a nutrition facts panel and believing that that is what a food's made up of.

25:01But it's thousands of bioactive compounds that change dramatically. Okay, so let's just stop there. Metabolomics, most people have never heard of that. What is metabolomics? It's basically metabolized. It's there's tens of thousands of compounds that change, that make up your metabolism, that make up an animal's metabolism that you can actually capture now with more advanced technologies rather than looking at iron, calcium, or minerals, you know, fatty acids. It goes way beyond that. And you look at like 10 or 20 tests, you get thousands of these metabolites that are actually bioactive, that regulate your biology, that influence every function in your body, that are medicinal in many ways or that are harmful if they're bad metabolites.

25:41Right. Exactly. And finding that, you know, certain animal products can have as many phytonutrients as plants. You know, in one analysis, lamb liver had as many phytonutrients, phenolics specifically, as an eggplant or a turnip or a squash. And so basically meat was a photograph of the land. It's literally the land, the biology, the life of the animal is kind of written into the meat itself. Okay, stop there. You just laid another giant bomb there. What you just said was animal food, meat, liver, can have the same medicinal phytochemicals or plant compounds as the plant. Yeah. I wrote about this actually in my book because in Icaria and Sardinia, they know, they take their goals as they eat this plant at this time of year and eat this plant at this time of year.

26:25And they're not doing it because they want to get more phytochemicals. They're doing it because they know the flavor changes. And what Fred Provenza says is flavor always follows phytochemical density. So the more phytochemicals, whether it's meat or plants, they taste better, right? And so they know that this one guy, Olinto, said, he fed me like a nose to tail pig meal. He says, we flavor the animal before we kill it. They feed it carob. They feed it acorns. They feed it whatever, vegetable. I don't know what they feed it, but it's exactly this concept. They didn't know scientifically, but what you're saying is that the plant foods that the animals are eating and the compounds in those plant foods that are beneficial for us get into the meat.

27:11And so it really matters what you eat. And these antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, anti-carcinogenic, antiviral, these compounds have so many different health benefits. and animals can also consume things we wouldn't otherwise consume, right? So then they metabolize them and then they increase the diversity of our diet. One of the main things I hear when people eat this type of meat versus a factory farm is that they finally feel satisfied. And that's another thing Dr. Fred Provenza believes is working for that type of meat is that ability to feel satiated is kind of gone when you simply eat the animals diet so much.

27:44Well, yeah, you know, that's another thing that Fred did, which was so amazing, was he basically would give these animals different plants And as soon as the phytochemical level hit a certain level in their blood and he would measure their blood, they'd stop eating. Exactly. Yeah. They'd stop eating. I know. It was like, I was like, wow, that's, and he did the same thing with reporting on a study that was done in the 20s in Canada with orphans where they basically gave them brain and liver and kidney, whatever, like all these weird things. The kids wouldn't eat, right? Today, at least. And let these kids naturally choose what they would eat.

28:17And these kids all chose foods that made them healthier. They had this natural intelligence. And so basically this book, Nourishment, it's like what we can learn from animals about how to nourish ourselves by being in touch with our own natural sense. Because when you're craving sugar or you're craving crap or carbs, your body's dysregulated. But when you get imbalanced, like when I go and I'm in an airport and I go to Starbucks and there's all that pastry and stuff, I mean, to me it looks like a rock. Like I would never buy it if I was hungry. Even though I was starving, I'm like, well, maybe I was starving.

28:50I would eat it, but, but I'm like, you know, like it doesn't actually even call my name anymore. Yeah. And it's like, I'd rather have a paleo valley meat stick or, you know, I mean, and in fact, that's what I did yesterday. I was like, I was like hungry and I was working all day and I missed lunch and I was like, I need like three sticks and I'm good to go for my afternoon podcast. You know, I do that too. It's going to make you hungrier. The, the rock that is. Yeah. And so So it's like your body can reset and it's like all this GLP-1 stuff, it's fine, but like it's not addressing this fundamental issue.

29:23How our brains and our metabolism, our biochemistry and our microbiome and our hormones and our immune system has all been hijacked by ultra processed food. By this, you know, cutting down what we're eating to 12 foods, right? 75 % of our diet comes from 12 foods. And that's what we've done with animals too with these total mixed rations. They're fed whatever we give them. They're no longer able to self-select. They're eating more. They're gaining a lot of weight. And it's translating into the meat. So take us through that. What are you finding from CAFO, feedlot meat versus like regular grass-fed, maybe grain-finished or organic meat versus agenda meat?

30:00And maybe define the terms because people might not know what they all are. For that, we didn't look at phytonutrients, but I just wanted to highlight that because that was a big piece of their research before. We had five major findings. First is just the lower omega-6 to 3 ratio. And so in grain-fed, about an 8 to 1, and in grass-fed, about a 2 to 1. And so we know that that's pretty consistent. So maybe linked to lower levels of inflammation. The second was it is a really good source of omega-3 fatty acids, grass-fed. So you could eat one grain or one grass-fed steak or three grain-fed steaks and get about the same amount.

30:31And I don't know if people understand, but beef in the UK can be considered a good source of omega-3 fatty acids. Anything over 40 milligrams. You don't even eat fish, you're saying. Well, no, I think we should all be eating fish. But I mean, you're getting fish fats from the meat. Exactly. In their long-chain form, which is different than the ones that you would get from plants. So we measured EPA and DPA and DHA. A lot of prior research hasn't measured DPA, but that is another omega-3 fatty acid that's really important. And when we do start to measure it, we realize, oh, wow, the amount in animal products can be significant.

31:03And they've done several trials where they actually watch people and they take them from grain-fed meat and put them to grass-fed meat. and the levels of omega-3s in the blood increase significantly. So not only do the animals have more of it, but when you eat the meat, you have more of it. It translates. It's not the meat you eat. It's whatever the meat you eat ate. That's exactly right. It's what's your meat ate that matters. Yes. And then the other one was around the saturated fatty acid profile. I don't know if you've talked about the diversity in saturated fatty acids. Yeah, but there's also another fat that's really interesting.

31:33Oh, yeah. CLA. The CLA. So there's another fat that's in grass-fed meat or milk that's incredibly important. And maybe you can just chat a little bit. People know about like omega-3s and EPA, DHA, basically, but there's also lower ratios of omega-6 to 3 in these meats, which is not omega-6s are bad and omega-3s are good. They're both needed. It's just the volume we have. When you start seeing 20 to 1 omega-6 to 3s, you start getting into health issues. And I think that's most of what Americans have. But talk about CLA, because CLA is really something that is something most people don't know about.

32:07It's not really out there as a supplement usually. But it's really important for our health. So talk about what it is and why it's in the grass or regenerative meat. Yeah. So conjugated linoleic acid is another one of those fatty acids that we know has cancer protective properties potentially, as well as an ability to help improve body composition and reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease. That's what some of the early research is showing and 1.6 times higher. To less cancer, less heart disease and better metabolism and body fat. Seems like a good deal. Yeah. That's pretty amazing. Yeah. And 1.6 times in the grass fed versus the grain fed.

32:41So yeah, that's another fatty acid. And then the saturated fatty acids, like I said, changed a lot. So there's a diverse array of saturated fats and we all lump it into one category where we've been kind of led to believe that it all acts the same. But we had more stearic acid, which is the cholesterol neutral saturated fatty acid. But then these very long chain saturated fatty acids, which are actually associated with a lower risk of cardiovascular disease in associative evidence, like arachidic acid and bahenic acid. Those were increased. And then we have odd change. So just somebody knows. I wrote a book called Eat Fat, Get Thin.

33:13And basically, there's no such thing as saturated fat. There are many different types of saturated fat. And you just mentioned one, stearic acid, which is the main saturated fat in meat, which you also just slipped in there because I'm slowing you down because people are just going to, you're going so fast. Yeah, you should. I didn't have a sentence. It's basically a stearic acid, which doesn't have impact on your blood cholesterol. Okay, so this is like don't eat meat because it's going to raise your cholesterol. Maybe that's not true. And what kind of meat, right? Yeah, I love that. And then even maybe with these longer chain, you can actually improve your cholesterol or reduce your risk of cardiovascular disease.

33:48And we've all probably heard about C15 or pentadecanoic acid, thought to potentially be a new longevity nutrient or required nutrient. And those levels also increased. Now, the absolute amount isn't large in beef, but it still was higher. Interesting. Yeah, I just did an Instagram live with Stephanie and Watson, who's basically the veterinarian who discovered that dolphins who age well and long time have higher levels of these fats that have longevity protective effects. That are saturated fats. Yeah, that are saturated fats. Yeah, so saturated fats are not the boogeyman. In fact, even Marty McCary, who's our FDA commissioner, came out and said, hey, we got this all wrong.

34:27We took a left turn in the 1960s. and for those listening, it was a very dominant, strong scientist named Ansel Keys who pushed this theory and in the end of his life, he actually retracted it because he realized it was wrong but it was even the sugar industry that paid these new scientists, like the top nutrition scientists at Harvard to the equivalent of like$50 ,000 to write a paper that said, hey guys, it's not sugar, it's fat, that's the problem in heart disease and that was the beginning of the end for America. It really was. We talked about that in the Rethink Meat series. But yeah, we've gotten really off course.

35:02And now I think with these new, more advanced studies and more nuanced studies, we're starting to see, oh, wow, this is, you know, really nuanced. And we've tried to make it simple and we've suffered as a result. The other one that we had was minerals. Minerals. What did you find? So minerals, we found six times the selenium, three times the amount of calcium, two times the amount of copper, and 1.2 times the amount of iron. Wow. Yeah. So can you imagine? That adds up as we're talking about. And they've done other research to suggest that it's related to the soil biology. Yeah, it's not what you eat.

35:33It's what you ate, ate. Exactly. It's an imprint of that land that it came from. And they even recently published a paper where ergotheanine, it's this compound that's actually made by bacteria and fungi, actually got transferred right into the meat when it was one of these. Tell us about it because that's an important compound. I'm throwing a lot of big words. I'm just going to slow you down and help us. I better understand because this is important. This is important stuff, guys. This is a revolutionary idea that you can actually get a lot of plant medicines when you eat the right meat. It's crazy.

36:05And it may explain a lot of the longevity benefits of the amount of cheese and milk from goats and sheep that was eaten in Sardinia and Ikari, where I visited when I wrote my book, Young Forever. So I really think that this is such a massive discovery that no one's talking about. Yeah. So ergothianine is this compound. I think we traditionally associate it with mushrooms, but it's produced by bacteria and fungi in the soil and it can be transferred into plants and even into the animal products. And so they looked at forage and also the meat and they found it was about 11 times higher in the forage when you compared it to something like a total mixed ration.

36:43So if you're eating a botanically diverse forage, you're going to already have a higher amount of that ergothianine. But then if it transfers to the meat, it was about 2.8 times higher than in other meat. Again, and this has potentially cytoprotective, anti-inflammatory. It's thought to get in and really improve mitochondrial health and improve the health of our brains. And so I think more and more research is being discovered about exactly how beneficial this compound is. But it's, again, one of those things we've, the dark matter of nutrition that we've largely ignored. Well, you know, the Rockefeller Institute is spending$200 million creating the periodic table of phytochemicals.

37:24They literally are doing deep research analysis on plants to look at the tens of thousands of molecules in there that bioregulate us. And years ago when I was learning about food as medicine, I came up with this term, symbiotic phytoadaptation. which essentially I made up words that I made up. And in English, it basically means we co-evolve with plants because while, and I'm just going to just take a, turn it on, get back to you in a sec, but I joke about, uh, you know, your, your thermos keeps your soup, you know, hot in the winter and your lemonade cold in the summer. How does it know what to do?

37:59Right. It's like, how did the body evolve so that these phytochemicals interact with certain receptors and genes to regulate our biology. You know, everybody's heard of like red wine and it's good for whatever, but it's resveratrol, which is the phytochemical in there that interacts with our mitochondria and SIRT1 receptors, which regulate longevity, the sirtuins that I wrote about in my book, Young Forever. So like, it's like, how does it, I mean, yeah, okay, a vitamin, but I don't think of these as kind of like, you know, you're not gonna get an acute deficiency disease like scurvy, but these are essential nutrients.

38:35for life if you're going to live a healthy, good life. Absolutely. And that's what we've called them secondary compounds, as Fred Provenza will tell you, but they have very primary roles in the body, potentially improving satiety, our ability to defend our DNA, you know, antioxidant protection, and potentially how we age, I think, is probably the quality of our lives, our vitality. And there are a lot of plants that regulate GLP-1, right? Yeah, exactly. Or your insulin or your, you know, inflammation level or your hormones or your brain chemistry, all of these things are modified by these phytochemicals.

39:07And if you read the papers that they write, you'll see dozens of benefits. Cytoprotective, cancer protective, cardiovascular protective. So you mentioned ergothinine. What other things were you finding? You're doing this metabolomic analysis. You're not looking at like 20 nutrients. You're looking at thousands of compounds. So what was the difference between like a feedlot cow, a grass-fed cow, that's just eating maybe one or two crops on grass-fed fields versus a full regenerative cow And explain, like, as you do this, what the difference of what they're eating is. So the difference in what they're eating, it just, it was all across the board.

39:40That was my role in the project. I got to speak with the ranchers and the farmers and talk to them. What are you exactly, what are the species in the pasture? How diverse is the pasture? How long are they feeding? So we had people who did feedlot samples, right? So they're getting a total mixed ration, you know, protein, corn, soy, you know, some added vitamins. And then you have the grass-fed and finished and regenerative systems where you could have up to 30 different species. And what we found in our research is, these were two really cool findings for ranchers and producers, is that up to 10, the more species in the pasture, the higher level of ALA, the plant-based alpha linoleic acid.

40:16And then also, the longer the grazing period at the end of their lives that they got directly implanted, you'd have more ALA and a lower omega-6 to 3 ratio, suggesting we want these botanically diverse pastures and we want them to be grazing their entire lives or as long as possible. You want a complex diet. Exactly. Just like humans. We're built for this diversity and we've kind of reduced everything that we're consuming. And I think. I think broccoli is good for you. But if all you is broccoli, you would die. Exactly. Right. And that's what we're forcing our animals to do. And in turn, we're eating the same things over and over.

40:51And so, and that was another one of the major takeaways is that grass fed is not grass fed is not grass fed, grain fed. And it's just not captured by our current labeling system. And so we just need to do better than. So what are we able to do? Like I'm, you know, going to Whole Foods or whatever and I try to find grass fed or is it grass finished or grass fed or is it regenerative? Like how do I determine what's what? It's really tricky. I think we wait for the Star Trek. Just kidding. But also I think we try to find producers or companies who we can trust who are prioritizing the way animals are fed.

41:24Because, you know, 2016 grass fed doesn't always mean grass finished. Because you can have grain at the end of their lives. They've done even - Like most animals spend most of their life on grass. And at the end, they throw them in a feedlot and they pump them full of corn and soy and they patent them up and give them hormones and antibiotics. And then - And that can still be technically grass-fed today, right? Because no one's going in and really regulating it. And there was a paper in Bronchema, 2019, I believe, and they looked at the commercially available grass-fed beef and the omega-6 to 3 ratio, which is very indicative of what the animal's consuming.

41:54Went from 28 to 1, which is - Terrible. Definitely getting grain there, but it was still grass-fed technically. all the way down to two to one, which is more in alignment with what we've seen in our studies, about a two to one versus an eight to one. And when you think about it, when you look at the data on long-lived societies, and we talked about the Blue Zones today, and Dan Beater's a great friend, and he's highlighted a lot of what they do. But back 125 years ago, at the turn of the 20th century, 1900, the Plains Indians, like the Lakota and the Sioux, They had the longest lived population.

42:30They were tons of centenarians in that community. And pretty much all they ate was bison, buffalo, and some berries and whatever they could forage. And so we were told, meat is bad for you. Don't eat meat. It's going to cause this and that cancer and heart disease. And people still think that's true. And it is true, I think, if you're eating crappy meat. Potentially. Yeah, crappy meat combined with a crappy ultra processed diet. And for those who want to know more, read my book, Food, What the Heck Should I Eat, or The Pagan Diet. I go really deep into all this stuff. But because I was like, I don't know what's true about meat.

43:05And I have no clue. And I actually came to Austin, where I'm living now. And I went to this hotel and locked myself in there for a week with about 100 different of the top scientific papers on meat. And I'm like, I don't care what the headlines say or what the media says or what doctors say or nutrition say. I want to read the actual science myself. So I read through it all. I was like, oh, now I get it. You know, it's the regenerative meat. has other things too. It's the fats composition is different. It's the omega-3 fats, it's the minerals. But I think it's this phytochemical richness that is kind of the secret sauce.

43:37Because when you're eating wild animals, it's really different. And we went to Rome Ranch around here. You don't probably know them. Oh, yeah. Yeah, which is this couple that did epic bars and they sold it to General Mills and they got them to do like a million acres in regenerative farming. And I have a podcast with them and I went to visit them not far from here. And it was a bison harvest day. So they pick up bison that needs to be called and they, you know, they go up to it and they separate it from the herd and they, they shoot it right in the head and things dead before it even hears the bullet.

44:05So, you know, the, the, the sound travels very, um, you know, the bullet travels faster than the sound. And so basically it doesn't, it doesn't know. And it was, it was, and then we butchered it and, and they opened it up and I was like, oh my God, like the fat in it was bright yellow. Like not white fat. It was like bright yellow. And I'm like, wow, these are the phytochemicals, the carotenoids, like your salmon is yellow, right? Or your carrots are yellow. Yeah. Like these are the carotenoids and the phytochemicals that are inside the animal that we're eating. It's amazing, isn't it? And what I think is even more interesting is that they're getting into human clinical trials now.

44:47Yeah. So tell us about that. So, okay, so great. We've established that regular meat is not something we want to be eating. and there's a cost issue for sure, but there's ways to get cheaper meat. And I talk about it in my book because you can get a cow share. You can get meat directly from farmers. You have wild pastures, which is your company that helps people get access in lower cost or forces of nature. So a lot of companies out there that are doing this, which is really great. The science is, I think, from my perspective, is pretty well established on the nutrient density, the phytochemical richness, the better fatty acid profile, the better mineral profile, the better antioxidant profile.

45:19I mean, you can go down the list for regenerative meat, which is basically, regenerative essentially means you're actually mimicking nature and having the animal go from pasture to pasture, not overgraze, eat a lot of different plants, and have a life that's pretty much like they would if they were a wild animal. So that's kind of a summary of it. Yeah. But what is the impact then on humans? And tell us about that research, because that's really interesting. That's my favorite part about it. So there was a trial back in 2011, which I mentioned at the top. The kangaroo study. The kangaroo versus feed la beef.

45:52And then Dr. Van Vliet's now working on, and there's preliminary evidence that he took people from a standard American diet onto a whole foods diet. Saw a reduction in markers of inflammation, but then also took them from a standard American diet to a diet where they only ate organic produce and more of this regenerative, totally grass-fed type of meat. And also saw a few of the inflammatory markers reduce. Yeah. Like what? I think it was IL-6 and TNF and CRP. These are what we call cytokines. We've already heard of the cytokine storm during COVID. So interleukin-6, tumor necrosis factor alpha, C-reactive protein.

46:29These are standard measures of inflammation and we can test them. And so if they go down, that's significant. That's good because every time we eat, we have an inflammatory response. And so if every time we eat, we're having less of that inflammation, our body is going to be able to resolve it, potentially not leading to a chronic inflammatory response. Potentially. Yeah. But this is where, but he did, he likes to be clear that going from the whole foods diet was the biggest lower of inflammation. Yeah, yeah. But that there was also potentially another beneficial effect. And he's still working on these human trials.

46:58And he's doing more than one of them. So has there been trials where they've looked at, you know, just swapping out the meat? Like, you know, like let's say you eat a whole food diet, but you eat feedlot meat. Yeah, that's what he's working on. Versus a whole food diet plus regenerative meat. Yeah, that's what the second part of that trial was that. And he did see, again, a small reduction in inflammatory markers. smaller than moving from the standard American diet to a whole foods diet, but still potentially. And that's compounds, just real understanding. If you're every day eating a diet that's slowly increasing inflammation, it compounds over time, like compounded interest.

47:28And the opposite is true. If you're eating an anti-inflammatory diet, over time, the benefits compound and you get healthier and healthier. And aging itself is an inflammatory process. And so the less you can have inflammation, the better off you are. Exactly. And then there are the other trials I was speaking to about the omega-3s and their ability to get in the ratio specifically. They've had people go from grain-fed meat to grass-fed meat and see a significant reduction in that omega-6 to 3 ratio in their blood and in their platelets. And I think that's really another interesting burgeoning area of research, the omega-3 index and just having more omega-3s.

48:02Potentially 84 ,000 Americans die every year due to omega-3 fatty acid deficiency. Wait, wait, say that again? I think Harvard research showed that about 84 ,000 people in America die every year because they're not getting enough omega-3 fatty acids. And I think - And that's about as many more that people die from drug overdose, which is a big crisis. It's a quote, a national emergency, right? And what about omega-3 deficiency? Is that a national emergency? Maybe. I mean, it can't be. And imagine if you had to eat one steak instead of three to get a significant amount of omega-3s, even outside of your fish consumption, which we hope everyone can access and eats regularly.

48:41But I just think that's a big deal. It is a big deal. I mean, think about that. 83 ,000 people dying from a deficiency disease that we aren't even testing for in traditional medicine, except with Function Health, which is a company I co-founded. And we, I'm like, I'm the medical chief medical officer. And I'm like, we're testing the nutrients. We're testing vitamin D. We're testing iron. We're testing, you know, zinc. We're testing selenium. We're testing omega-3 fatty acids. We're testing all the B vitamins and methylmonic acid, homocystine. We're doing a deep dive in your nutritional health, and we know what we're finding, Autumn?

49:18What? Almost 70 % of our members are deficient in one or more of the nutrients we test, and we're using the reference range from the lab, not what I would, as Dr. Hyman would say, would be the optimal range. So example, vitamin D, the reference range in labs is 30, and lower is deficiency. for me and when you look at the scientific literature it's 45 50 right so you know what i'm saying is almost 70 of people at an extremely low level like iron you know your ferritin should be 45 or 50 but 16 is the cutoff on the lab right so i'm just i'm just you know the reference ranges in my view are wrong and still within those reference ranges which are i think are too generous, we're still seeing almost 70 % nutrient deficient.

50:11And if you're saying, you know, omega-3s are killing 83 ,000 people a year, that's big. And all you need to do is eat some regeneratively raised meat or eat some sardines or take your fish oil pill. And it's so easy. It is, but it's something most people don't recognize. And you're getting a skewed population who's far more aware of these deficiencies probably than most normal people. So I'd say if you take that out population level. It's almost everybody. And omega-3 fats are really rich in wild foods, which is mostly what we ate as hunter-gatherers. So we've only been agricultural producers for 10 ,000 plus years, maybe 12 ,000, been who you listen to.

50:45We've been humans for 200 ,000 years. So like, what were we eating? What did we evolve on? We evolved on wild food, which has got all these phytochemicals, which is all these omega-3 fats. And, you know, the Native Americans in the the Pacific Northwest, they actually used this fish as currency, which was so oily and so fatty and so rich in omega-3 fats that everybody knew how valuable it was. And instead of money, that's what they would use to trade. That makes a lot of sense. It's crazy, right? That's insane. But I've noticed a profound difference. I'm just full of these stupid facts. I don't know why they pop out of my head, but here we go.

51:20I love them. And it's easy maybe for people to understand that omega-3s originate in greens, right? In plants. And then the grains are really high in those omega-6s. Yeah. And this is, in addition to the high levels of vegetable oil consumption, obviously, but the way our animals are being raised now, I think is another significant contributor to a rise in that omega-6 to 3 ratio. Yeah. Especially when it comes to chicken and pork, right? Yeah. Beef is a little bit more moderated because of the process through their rumen. But when it comes to beef and chicken, or pork and chicken, they can be like a 20 to 1 ratio, 30 to 1 ratio.

51:49Okay. Okay. So the belief is chickens are healthy, pork, the other white meat, which is, I think, a really dangerous marketing campaign that the government and industry paid for, like Got Milk. These are checkoff programs that the government does that are supposed to be in partnership with industry to improve the health and the nutrition of the population and do research, but instead they use it for marketing, like pork, the other white meat, really. So can you kind of take us through the pork and chicken story? Because I think this is important, particularly chicken. Everybody's like, I'm going to eat chicken breast.

52:19That's going to be super healthy. And maybe it's not. Maybe not. Maybe depending on how— Walk us through that. Yeah, maybe how it's raised. And I've gotten really, as a result of that project, kind of zoned in on this omega-6 to 3 ratio. But when you go and you get a conventionally raised chicken, that ratio, 20 to 1, 20 times more omega-6s than omega-3s. And the pork is even worse. It can be 30 to 1, 35 to 1. And when you change their diet, because like I said, cows have the ability to biohydrogenate and they kind of control the polyunsaturated fats. It's really nerdy, but they just have a different type of digestive system.

52:56But pigs and chickens are monogastrics. They have one stomach. And so they just have higher levels of them as omega-6s get into their meat, like far higher levels. And so even in our factory farmed beef, the ratio is 8 to 1. And that is far lower than chicken and pork in conventional settings. So truly, you know, sometimes if you're just looking at that omega-6 to 3 ratio, beef could be, even factory farmed beef could be a better choice if you don't think about the antibiotics and hormones than chicken and pork that most people can buy today. So if you're wanting to balance that, I would go for beef and fish before chicken and pork, personally.

53:34And I've had a farmer, a rancher, he's a buddy of mine, and he actually wants to set the world record for the lowest omega 6 to 3 ratio in pork. But he got it down to a 5 to 1. And the way that he did that was he put his pigs out on pasture and just didn't supplement them with grains. And it was a specific breed of pig. And so there are lots of factors and variables that go into this. But you can reduce that significantly. significantly. And it's also something my team and I are working on. I think chicken as the meat that we consume most often, you know, probably around 60 pounds per person per year for beef, but about a hundred for chicken because we've been taught that it's the healthiest.

54:07Chicken's better, right? Actually meat consumption has gone down over the last 50 years. Yeah. Poultry consumption has gone up. Exactly. And we're getting sicker and fatter. Exactly. So what?

54:19Collagen is the most abundant protein in your body. It's the glue that holds you together, supporting your skin, joints, muscles, bones, and gut. But after age 20, we start losing it, and most modern diets are low in collagen. That's why I recommend Paleo Valley's 100 % grass-fed bone broth protein powder. It's made from the bones of grass-fed, pasture-raised U.S. cattle using just water and bones, no chemicals, no fillers. This high-quality collagen supports so many things like your skin, joints, muscle recovery, bone health, digestion, and even sleep quality. Many of my patients notice a real difference when they add collagen consistently to their routine, and the flavors are delicious.

54:55Chocolate, vanilla, salted caramel, savory original, turmeric ginger, and unflavored. Head to paleovalley.com slash hymen for 15 % off your first purchase and try this clean, nutrient-dense protein today. You know those cooler mornings when you want to feel centered, calm, and energized, but not wired? That's why my fall and winter daily rituals start with Peak's Sun Goddess Matcha. Peak is a wellness brand I've trusted for years, creating science-backed tea crystals and superfood blends with clean ingredients. The products make it effortless to support gut health, skin, energy, and immunity while keeping wellness simple.

55:26When it comes to matcha, Peak's Sun Goddess Matcha is ceremonial grade from Japan. It's shaded longer than typical matcha, boosting L-theanine and chlorophyll for calm, focused energy that lasts without the crash of coffee. I love how one simple ritual keeps me centered, boosts my metabolism, and even nourishes my skin from within with detoxifying antioxidants. Transform your wellness from the inside out and enjoy up to 20 % off for life, plus a complimentary gift at peaklife.com slash hymen. That's p-i-q-u-e life.com slash hymen.

55:59So the chicken thing is interesting. You know Joseph Hiblin? Yes. Mental health guy. So he's the guy who said, gee, in population studies, which don't prove cause and effect, the places in countries where there was higher, much higher omega-6 intake and lower omega-3 intake had more suicide, homicide, mental health issues, and so forth, which was kind of an amazing study. But he and I met in Washington. He worked for the NIH, and I was just very impressed with his research. So I reached out to him, and we hung out. He was talking about chickens. I was like, yeah, these chickens really have lots of these omega-6 fats.

56:39And when you look at heart disease, you know the way that it's not cholesterol itself that causes heart attacks it's rancid cholesterol it's and and you know when you know it's much easier for a oil like soybean oil or corn oil to go rancid than it is for example butter or lard or ghee for example which has got all the milk solids out you can leave it out out of the fridge on your shelf for months and it's fine to eat whereas if you did that with another oil it would become dangerous it would be rancid and what he said was that the oxidized LDL is carrying these oxidized omega-6 fats. And that's what's causing a lot of the heart disease.

57:19And we know this is true. This is not something that's like, you know, I'm making up. This is our cardiologists really most understand this. So that's true. And you're eating this, you know, increased ratio of omega-6 to 3s, and you're eating a lot of chicken, you may actually be worsening your risk of heart attack. And he was talking about how do we create a line of chickens where that's not the case. So can you talk about your efforts on the chickens? That's exactly right. Yeah, because they get into our cell membranes and they make different compounds and different signaling molecules. But yeah, so my husband and I have become obsessed with, you know, not only optimizing for the environment and sustainability of the animal products that we provide, but also for that nutrient density and that balanced ratio.

57:59And so we're working on a feed that will reduce that. We've had a testing to four to one so far, but we We're perfectionists. And so we want to even get it below. So what is it in most like regular chicken you buy in the grocery store? What are they consuming? What's the ratio? Oh, 20 to one, 25 to one. It's really high. Yeah. It can be lower. I mean, again, this is. And just what humans should be generally eating is like two to four to one is okay. Exactly. Below four to one. Maybe even six to one, but yeah. Yeah. And can you imagine eating all of your meat with that ratio? And then what could happen if you potentially lowered that ratio?

58:32So you're like chicken breast, chicken breast, chicken breast, chicken breast. and you're like, don't even realize what you're doing. So you're getting it down to four to one. Four to one so far, but we're going to keep going. And actually, like I said, after this, we're going out to our poultry farm and we're going to work with our farmer and rancher on this particular project. Can you tell us what you're feeding them? Oh. Or is it a secret? It is kind of a secret. Just like forage, which might, I think my husband would kill me if it wasn't, because it's not quite finished yet. But when it is, we will share it with everyone.

59:00We don't want this to be like a trade secret or anything like that. But we're just increasing, you know, the forage and then we're fermenting different types of grain and really looking at the different ratios in each different type of grain and so we're just it's a very specific process because you know corn soy wheat they all have this different omega-6-3 profile that then gets transferred into the meat and if you have pasture corn is like the worst it's different because they're eating like you know i was in my friend's house in martha's vineyard they had a regenerative farm and they had these chicken houses and they had these these cows and sheep and chickens all living together they moved them around and every time the chick they would you know move the cows and they would move the chickens into where the cows were and then the chickens would go out and eat all the maggots and worms and i don't know whatever bugs that are in the in the manure and and and need all whatever is in the grass and the they're the quality of um the taste of those and the meat is quite different and and everybody knows this like if you've seen an egg from a like pasture-raised chicken.

59:57It's like bright orange. If you get a commercially raised egg, it's like this pale yellow yolk. And if you touch it, it just breaks. Whereas the pasture-raised egg yolk is hard to break. Yeah. I first noticed that when I was in Uruguay. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, what are these eggs? These are not American eggs. I went to New Zealand and I've eaten a lot of pastures eggs here. I went to New Zealand and they served us eggs. And I looked at the egg and I'm like, this is like a, like, this is like a giant bright sunset, like orange. It's like beautiful. Yeah. Like I took a picture of it and I was like, this is a beautiful egg.

1:00:36It's so true though. They do a lot of that pasture base in Uruguay. And so, and that's the carotenoids, you know, creating that robust, beautiful color that is transferred again, right into the meat and the animal products. So you're kind of redoing chickens. Redoing chickens. Tell us about like wild pastures because you founded that, you know, to try to address this issue because access is a problem, you know? And we're talking about all this and they're like, yeah, but like I go to Safeway or I go to like, you know, IGA or I go to Publix or I go to whatever, wherever you live, whatever the grocery store is, H-E-B in Texas.

1:01:12How do I know what I'm getting? And I don't know if I can afford, you know, a$70 ribeye steak. You know, it's regeneratively raised. Right. So what do I do? Yeah. So basically we did wild pastures when we started to realize, okay, the nutrient content of our supply is dipping. Soil is kind of, restoring soil is probably one of the most important public health interventions of our time. And so we wanted more people to be able to opt in to supporting that rehabilitation of the soil and to put a dent in factory farming. So that's our big thing. But food sovereignty is really another piece. It's creating these bio regions where people in their own communities are producing the foods that they're consuming.

1:01:51And so we only source from American regenerative farmers and ranchers because there is heavy amounts. And you've written about this of consolidation in the beef market specifically. And we have a lot of like five companies that basically run all the beef in the world for and runs 85 percent of the beef processing. Right. JBS, Cargill, National Beef, Tyson. and a few of them are foreign owned so that's a scary thing when they're coming from brazil or even china has its hands in our meat supply my god smithfield which was bought by china is basically a pork production they're just producing pork in the worst way for their market it's it's really quite bad and they're destroying and they're you know i'm just going to go on a rant here but like i wrote about it in my book food fix the amount of harm forget forget the eating of the food that's not good for you the amount of harm of these factory farm operations of chickens or pigs or pork or, or, or pigs and pork are the same or cows, it is creating such environmental damage.

1:02:47You know, the runoff of the manure, the pesticides, the herbicides, the, the, um, the effluent from all the waste is creating toxic air. And if you live near there, your health is dramatically impacted because you're getting asthma and all these horrible illnesses and their, their, their life expectancy is going down. Property values are down. I mean, it's really having a terrible impact. Yeah, and antibiotic-resistant bacteria kills 700 ,000 people worldwide. Like you said, and these costs are all externalized. You read my book. I did. And yeah, and you don't pay for these at checkout, but I like to think when you buy this cheap food, it's like a down payment.

1:03:21Because you're paying in environmental costs. You're paying in maybe a lower quality of life. You're paying for the cost of disease later. And also, people in far-off countries, they're not going to treat your community the way that you would, right? They're just not invested. They're not connected. And so how do we get Americans connected back to the American food supply? So that is another major tenant. And then also keeping the cost as low as humanly possible because everyone deserves access to high quality food. There is too much inequality in this country. How do they get it? Wild pastures.

1:03:49What we do is— You go to wildpastures.com? You go to wildpastures.com. And we also do like whole animal utilization. So we, Paleo Valley and wild pastures, use the organs, right? We use the bones for our bone broth. We use the tallow. And so it's that whole animal utilization that allows us to keep the costs really low. We're constantly tinkering. In our seven years of business, we've only raised our prices once. And if you know anything about the meat market right now, the beef prices are out of control. And so it is always our last. We would never want to pass the cost back onto the consumer because we really do want to take factory farming and make it a thing in the past.

1:04:22You're basically like doing direct from farm or ranch to the consumer. You're cutting out the middleman. You're cutting out the grocery store. You're cutting out the distributor. You're able to lower the costs. and make it accessible. Yeah, and right now. And it comes frozen. Yeah, it comes frozen. It's convenient and it's affordable. And it also gives the farmer and rancher a better wage, right? A better quality of life because our poor farmers and ranchers are trapped in this system. I grew up in Montana. I know it. It's a hard life. And so, yeah, we just really want to restore the nutrient density of our food supply.

1:04:50I do believe well-raised meat is one of the most valuable tools we have for restoring this micronutrient sufficiency. Obviously, lowering our risk to antibiotics, hormones, and all of the chemicals. and environmental pollution, but also just making sure that anyone who wants to opt in can opt in easily. So just you touched on something again, I want you just to fill up just all these great little things you whiz over that are I just want to I want to kind of dive into again. You said something really important. And we're talking here about human health and its impact of eating the wrong kinds of meat versus the right kinds of meat, the benefits of regenerative on our health, the animal's health, and, you know, even the environmental issue.

1:05:28But what you're what you're really talking about is a much broader restoration of our entire ecosystem. So regenerative means to regenerate, to renew, to repair, to heal. And we have a whole field in medicine called regenerative medicine, which is about like using the body's own healing properties to actually activate healing responses like stem cells or exosomes or peptides. So these are the body's own regenerative systems. They're not a drug. They're actually something the body makes to do, like when you cut yourself, how does your body heal? Well, it recruits stem cells, it recruits the exosomes that get released, it release healing factors and growth factors, and it recruits fibroplats and connective tissue.

1:06:10You're not going, oh, would you please heal Mr. Skin or Mrs. Skin, right? So the body has this regenerative capacity, but the earth also has a regenerative capacity. And we saw that during COVID when everybody was locked in and the humans disappeared from the world for a short period of time, nature surged back like insanely, you know, populations of fish, populations of dolphins and sea life and animals. I mean, it was just, it was remarkable how the body can reclaim. And David Attenborough, who's an incredible filmmaker, he's an environmentalist, actually made this film about the kaleidoscope of his life and how the environments change, how many species we've lost, what the degradation of forests has been.

1:06:53It was kind of depressing, honestly. But at the end, he goes to Chernobyl, which, I mean, most people have this image in Chernobyl as a nuclear toxic waste dump and nobody lives there, which is true. But he showed that he went there and he showed that it had completely regenerated, that the trees had taken over. It was like Planet of the Apes, you know, like it took all, it all came back to nature. There were deer, there were wolves, there were bears, there were animals all over. It was like this really thriving thing. So what regenerative agriculture can do is not just feed us well, but actually restore a lot of our climate and environmental problems.

1:07:30So can you speak to that? Yeah, absolutely. My favorite analogy is from another one of our ranchers who said, nature's like a horse behind a gate. If we just let her out and let her do what she wants to do rather than working against her, like the most beautiful things can happen. And that's essentially what you said regenerative agriculture is all about, is just restarting all of those cycles of nature and working with nature rather than against it. And so, yeah, our soil can also be a storage house for carbon, right? You know, three times the amount of carbon in the atmosphere can be trapped in soil.

1:08:02So we can— It's the biggest carbon sink on the planet. Forget rainforests, yeah. Exactly. So we can build soil and the organic matter in soil. And then again, that organic matter is going to feed the plants. It's going to make all of those nutrients accessible. And again, even soil contains microbes that improve serotonin levels, right? And that diversity in the soil, some scientists even believe there's a relationship between the diversity in the soil and the diversity in our own microbiome. And your brain. And our brain. And life-saving medicines, they come from the soil, right? So many of our life-saving medicines come from the soil.

1:08:34And that biodiversity, 25 % of the biodiversity is linked to the life in the soil. And like you said, we've destroyed and decimated that biodiversity. I think over 60 % of it in the last few decades. Yeah, there was a bacteria. It's really interesting. There's a bacteria in the soil of Rapa Nui, which is Easter Island, called rapamycin. That is one of the most promising longevity compounds out there. So the soil is like a storage house of healing. I mean, think about it. We're looking for the fountain of youth. I mean, this drug isn't the fountain of youth, but it's the closest thing we have today to the fountain of youth.

1:09:09Yeah, and we see that looming threat of antibiotic resistance. And I read a stat the other day that only 5 % of the life-saving medicine compounds have probably been discovered in soil. So like you said, when we're depleting the soil, we are really depleting our best chance we have at a vibrant health and for generations to come. And that's what I hate about the thought that we right now depleting our soil as we are, we are essentially like passing the bill to our children, future generations, because they're the ones who are, we're already suffering. But if we don't fix this issue now, they're going to be suffering.

1:09:38Yeah. So I think this is so important and I know it's hard for people, but wherever you can, whatever you can do to support regenerative agriculture is important. And there's new regenerative organic certifications that are emerging. You know, there's, you know, people are kind of self-pleasing now, so you have to kind of do your homework. But there are companies out there like yours, like Wild Pastures, that do this and do the hard work and source good stuff. And, you know, what's interesting, I don't know if you know this, but in Europe, people spend 20 % of their income on food. In America, it's 9%.

1:10:12So, you know, we want to spend money on, you know, whatever, video games or clothes or lattes. I guess just food, technically. If we did like a math of like how many lattes Americans consume, how much they spend on lattes a year. And if they just invested that in their health, it would be amazing. Get a machine and make your own latte at home. It's so true. Because it's$5 a day. There was a time when I was doing that, you know,$35 a week, like two, you know, several hundred dollars every month. And yeah, just put that towards a CSA, put that towards better high quality meat, go to your farmer's market.

1:10:48See, you can really make those dollars. I mean, there's a really good book I read years ago called Your Money or Your Life. And it was essentially talking about the value of your money based on how much it takes to earn it. So like if you make$30 an hour, you know, if you go buy a$30 shirt, that's an hour of your time. Right. And so kind of like recalibrates it. It says like, what, what do you, what are your values? Like what matters to you? Do you really need to spend$3 ,000 a year on lattes? What if you took that$3 ,000 and spent it on a gym membership or on better quality food or on taking a vitamin D and a fish oil pill every day?

1:11:24Or, you know, like there's a million ways to invest that extra cash that we don't think we have. Absolutely. And you can just start with one small decision. Like you said, I'm not going to have a latte. I'm going to do this. What we did for, we just said, we're going to go to the farmer's market this summer. And we found people who were selling their produce, their imperfect produce at far lower prices. or by the end of the day, they just wanted to get rid of things. And so you can find deals there. We found people making our milk down the road, fermenting vegetables. And so, yeah, I think just choosing one thing to change at a time, it creates momentum.

1:11:55It does. And I think, you know, what you're giving is hope for people, right? And I think what I want to sort of come to end on is like people listening go, oh, well, that's for the elite and that's for people who can afford it and that's for the wealthy and it's not for me. And I can't really eat well well, because it's too expensive and I'm on a budget or I'm on food stamps or whatever. Right. And, and, and this is a message that I think has really been promoted by the food industry. You know, you know, that's elitist. It's, you know, expensive, you know, let us help you. Let's make safe, convenient, cheap food for you.

1:12:34We're taking care of you. We love you. This is the food industry's propaganda, but it's making you sick. So whatever you're not paying on food today, you're going to pay on your medications and co-pays and doctor's visits when you're sick later. You know, you pay now, you pay later. But even with that, you know, I think there are ways to navigate how to eat well for less. And quick story, because I've said this many times, I think, on the podcast, but I was in a film called Fed Up, went to South Carolina, one of the worst food deserts on, on them in America. They have a, they call the retail food environment index, which is how many fast food and junk food stores and bodegas are out of healthy grocery stores.

1:13:13It was like 10 to one. And, um, the family was massively obese. They lived in a trailer family of five disability and food stamps. The father was 42 on dialysis already from kidney failure, from diabetes, right? Which doesn't usually happen to later. The 16 year old was diabetic pretty much. I was like very overweight and I went to their house, well, their house and I said, let's just cook a meal together. So I got this guide called Good Food on a Tight Budget from the Environmental Working Group and I picked some recipes from there and got the ingredients and we made turkey chili, we made a salad with fresh vegetables and olive oil and vinegar, not some weird dressing that they had in the fridge.

1:13:52And they didn't even know what they were eating. It was all processed food. And, and they learned how to do it. And they lived in one of the worst food deserts in America. And they, I said, here's the guide, here's a cookbook. I left and I bought them cutting boards and knives because they didn't even have them. Everything was in a microwave where, you know, and so they didn't really even have things to cut vegetables with, you know, and I showed her, I just showed them the basic cooking skills and one, one meal. And they were like, Dr. Hyman, do you like eat like this every day with your family?

1:14:22I'm like, yeah. We had a great time. And a week later, the mother texted me back. We lost 18 pounds of family. A year later, 200 pounds. Their father gets a new kidney. The mother loses 100 pounds. The son lost 50, gained it back, working at Bojangles, ended up getting himself together. And I coached him a little bit. He lost 132 pounds and went to medical school. Not in first person's college going to medical, but he was the first person in the family to go to college. Wow. So I'm like, wait a minute. Here's a family that's, it's extremely, in extreme poverty, who's in one of the worst food dents in America.

1:14:54And they figured it out. And it's not about inaccessibility. Now, they're probably not going to get a$70 grass-fed regenerative ribeye steak. Yeah. But, you know, they're eating real food. And that's the first step. And so, so talk about how, you know, it's not inaccessible. It doesn't have to be expensive. and the real cost of cheap food, which is, you know, what you pay at checkout counter is not actually the real cost of the food. No, like I said, it's a down payment, right? You're paying in environmental pollution that's degrading our topsoil, exposure to chemicals, which we all are learning far more about.

1:15:29You know, 11 ,000 people, the farm workers, 11 ,000 people die from just handling pesticides, from pesticide poisoning, right? Antibiotic resistance. Like these are all costs that the companies, the megacorporations are externalizing. And what is the cost of losing 41 million IQ points in kids who are the children of farm workers. I mean, what is the cost of that? And the cost in the quality of life. These are all things that we are paying, but the corporations are just not paying and making it look like cheap food, but it is not cheap food. Somebody's paying, it just ain't them. Exactly. It's our tax dollars, right?

1:16:01Our tax dollars, our salaries. We are the ones who are paying. We are paying. And so, like you said, switching to Whole Foods and making really simple meals. I think that's the top thing is like eating out less. We go out as a family of three, it's$100. But we make a meal from ground, like a pound of ground beef. Then we just, we do it like our beef pizza, we call it. And then we just add tomato sauce. And then we just have like potatoes that we slice and then we rub with tallow and then we cook them. And then we have a fermented food on the side. It's like a$25 meal, like you said, for a family of three.

1:16:32And so I think eating more at home and they do not have to be fancy meals. Mine are never fancy meals, but they're just whole food based. And then of course, connecting, right? Getting to these companies that cut out the middlemen, getting to know your farmer and rancher. And you don't have to say, oh, where's your organic certified beef? Talk to the farmers. Sometimes they opt out of certifications to keep prices lower, but they're doing practices. Rotational grazing, avoiding all the hormones. So that's good. The other thing that I really like is eating nose to tail. So a lot of meats are way cheaper and organ meats are some of the cheapest cuts that you can get.

1:17:02And the most nutrient dense. And the most nutrient dense. Go to ChachiPT or go to Google and say, please analyze the nutrient density of chicken liver or beef liver versus the most nutrient-dense vegetable. And you're going to see it's like orders of magnitude more nutrient-dense. It's wild. And you saw that Dr. Ty Beal paper, Priority Micronutrient Density, where he looked at the nutrients most people are deficient in worldwide in low - and middle-income countries. And the foods, heart, liver, kidney, spleen. Yeah. Top of the list, goat, beef, eggs, and then one plant-based food, the leafy greens.

1:17:37But if we can work organ meats back into people's repertoire. They're cheap. It's affordable. Yeah, it's like half the cost at least. Yeah. And so, and you can start small with just like a primal blend. Like you don't have to go hard and fast and just like saute a heart. Basically like ground beef with a bunch of ground organs. So you don't really notice it. So you can make, you know, like sauce, meat sauce or things like that. And you don't have to like, or hamburger and you don't actually go, I'm eating organ meats, right? exactly that's what i do that's what i do too because i can't stand the taste well i love chicken liver but anyway oh you do that's much more palatable than beef liver and you can soak it in milk i mean there are ways but and then also just what we do too is cook in batches so the beginning of the week i make a big salad i make a big soup so even if the only thing you have time to do at night is to cook a high quality animal product you have things ready you're not wasting food you're not going out the last minute it's kind of just setting it up yourself up for success.

1:18:29And then eating local and in season too, because again, that often cuts costs because the average meal travels about a thousand miles. It comes from five different countries, most ingredients. And so if you can just eat local seasonal food, that's often a lot cheaper too. And get an Instapot, like a crockpot. And you can actually throw these tougher cuts of meat, again, that are far less expensive in there and create a really delicious meal that takes almost very little time. And so there are ways. So this is great. So Autumn, you basically said, what's a meal in the day of the life of Autumn?

1:19:03I like that. That is my life. Very low effort. Low friction. High nutrient density. Yeah. So this morning I had pasture-raised eggs with just chopped up some onions and tomatoes and olive oil, salt and pepper, made scrambled eggs. It took me like five minutes and it was a delicious nutrient-dense meal. Yeah. I use sardines and you mix in some honey mustard. You know what I mean? Like that can be lunch. It can be super simple, super cheap. Those small fish also very, very affordable. So yeah. I mean, I literally am able to make three meals in less than 30 minutes total. Yesterday, for example, protein shake in the morning, three minutes.

1:19:47Lunch was basically sardines with seed crackers. And dinner was lamb chops that I just cooked in a pan and put in the oven for a minute. I put sweet potatoes in the oven, which let them cook for an hour, but it wasn't there. and I stir fried bok choy with ginger, which took like three or four minutes. So basically I had this lamb chops and Japanese purple sweet potatoes and lots of ginger and bok choy, which is a croissier de vishon ball. Then it took me literally like 15 minutes to make dinner. So it's, I mean, I'm not making super fancy recipes. It's just, you know, cooking is a skill we haven't learned.

1:20:26And, you know, we've been disenfranchised from our kitchens. The food industry has insinuated itself in there. I've told this story before, but Betty Crocker was not a real person. I thought she was a real person. I did too. And she was a fabrication of the food industry in order to actually insert recipes into people's lives that had, you know, take a roll of Ritz crackers and sprinkle it on your broccoli casserole or put in one can of Campbell's cream of mushroom soup into your blah, blah, blah. I mean, it was sneaky. And then, you know, there was TV dinners. and then it just kind of got worse and worse.

1:21:00So I think what you're saying is a really hopeful message, Autumn, is that one, you were sick and you got better. Two, the earth is sick and we can make it better. The animals we're eating are living horrible lives and we can choose different ways to support a more humane way of raising animals. And that we can actually use food as medicine across the board and that meat isn't the boogeyman we thought it was if we eat the right meat. and that there are ways to do this in an affordable way. And all the links and all the things we're talking about, we're going to put them in the show notes. Everybody can learn more about you and your work, what you're doing.

1:21:36They can go to Paleo Valley, right? And learn more about that. Wild Pastures, there's an Instagram at Paleo Valley and at Wild Pastures. And of course your website's wildpastures.com and paleovalley.com. So I think you're an inspiration, Autumn. I love what you're doing. I've used your product for years. I didn't really, haven't met you until this moment, but I'm just so grateful for the voice and the way you have actually taken a stand in the world to create something that's going to improve the health of people. So thank you for what you do. Thanks for being on the podcast. Any last words that you want to share with the audience?

1:22:11Well, first of all, thanks for being my mentor from afar. I couldn't have done any of it without the knowledge that you disseminate. But yeah, I guess my message is just, today, it's not always easy to be healthy, right? It's not something that we are given necessarily because of many different factors, but that I just invite you to, yeah, I hope that this inspires you to just take control where you can with what food you're consuming, noticing how that food is raised, because I think it's one of the most important things that we can do for the time, for our children, for ourselves. And I just hope that people find hope in that message.

1:22:43It reminds me to end with a quote from Mother Teresa. You kind of remind me of this quote that she says, you know, there are no great acts of love. There are only small acts done with great love. I love that. And I love Fred Provenza's too, that we're members of nature's communities. Yeah. And what we do to them, we do to ourselves. Exactly. Heal our soil, heal ourselves. Absolutely. Well, thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for what you do. And I'm going to keep following what you're doing and the studies and the research because it's so important to really illuminate what we really need to know about.

1:23:14How food affects us. So thank you if you love this podcast Please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it You can find me on all social media channels at dr. Mark Hyman. Please reach out I'd love to hear your comments and questions Don't forget to rate review and subscribe to the dr. Hyman show wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to check out My youtube channel at dr. Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on the dr. Hyman show This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center, my work at Cleveland Clinic, and Function Health, where I am Chief Medical Officer.

1:23:47This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, please seek out a qualified medical practitioner. And if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, visit my clinic, the Ultra Wellness Center at ultrawellnesscenter.com and request to become a patient.

1:24:19It's important to have someone in your corner who is a trained, licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. This podcast is free as part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the public. So I'd like to express gratitude to sponsors that made today's podcast possible. Thanks so much again for listening.