Why Mental Illness Is a Metabolic Problem—and What That Means for Your Health | Dr. Chris Palmer

26:50You're saying everything's mitochondrial dysfunction. And so I really, like, I'm struggling. How can I explain this so people understand what I'm really trying to say? So what I'm really trying to say is that biological, like, wide range of biological, whether it's infections or, you know, hormones, like, all sorts of things. gut microbiome, diet, biological, psychological, social, and environmental, in particular environmental toxins. All of those four buckets are the root causes of chronic disease. Those four buckets, so there are lots of things that go into those four buckets, but they all converge at this central pathway called metabolism mitochondria.

27:44Mitochondria are regulating and controlling metabolism because they are really... Mitochondria... Give us a 60 second. Like when you say metabolism, people, I have a slow metabolism. You're not talking about that. I'm not talking about that. Talk about what you mean by metabolism because it's important for people to understand this. So most people think of metabolism as burning calories. And yes, it is burning calories. Most people think of it as, well, it's metabolic syndrome. It's high blood pressure, high glucose, insulin resistance. That's metabolism. Yes, those things are tiny parts of metabolism, but metabolism, in fact, is a fundamental definition of a living organism.

28:22The ability to take food and turn it into energy or building blocks is a fundamental definition of a living organism. Viruses cannot do that independently, and so many biological authorities will say viruses are not independent living organisms. They are not a life form under themselves. So life, a living organism, whether it's a bacterium to a human being and everything in between, has to be able to take food, oxygen, nutrients, and turn that into energy or building blocks to maintain life. And in fact, the absence of metabolism, the cessation of metabolism is the definition of death. There are zero exceptions.

29:17There is no cause of death that does not involve the cessation of metabolism. Suffocate somebody, you're depriving them of oxygen, which stops metabolism. Starvation, toxins. You will not find any toxin that can kill a human being that does not disrupt metabolism. Cyanide, that's what it does. Boom, you're dead in seconds because it interrupts. It is a mitochondrial toxin. Arsenic, a mitochondrial toxin. Tylenol overdose, mitochondrial toxin. Alcohol poisoning, mitochondrial toxin. Jackson. You can go on and on. And the reason is not, it's not, you know, when I first started doing this work, I was initially like shocked by what I'm saying.

30:07And I was a little bit in disbelief. I'm like, it can't be that simple. It is that simple. And why is it that simple? Because metabolism is a fundamental law. Like we don't really have laws like they do in physics. They This is a law of biology. Metabolism is fundamental to life. The absence of metabolism is the definition of death. Dysregulation of metabolism, this is what I am proposing, dysregulation of metabolism leads to chronic disease. Dysfunction of mitochondria broadly leads to chronic disease. that like metabolism is so foundational to life that it shouldn't i get that some people are really skeptical of that because they're focused on but it's neurotransmitters and i'm like neurotransmitters are part of metabolism it's hormones they're part of metabolism inflammation part of metabolism you know viruses a viral infection that is an assault on your energy systems it's an assault on your metabolism it's threatening your life and again anything that threatens your life is threatening your metabolism, ultimately.

31:20If your metabolism is going, you're still alive, by definition. You're still alive. So Chris, you know, people are listening and they're like, okay, great. This is a different paradigm. Like, we got it wrong around traditional psychiatry. We have a new paradigm that's emerging around metabolic and traditional psychiatry. But I'm depressed, or I'm bipolar, or I'm struggling with X, Y, or Z. What do I do about it? How do I fix this? How do these insights and what is a science that's emerging that kind of points to what to do about all this? So the one point I want to make before I directly answer that, like an indirect answer or really a direct answer is also what do I not want you to do?

32:07And I just want to, like I am a psychiatrist. I've been at Harvard Medical School for 30 years. I still have my job I want to keep it I don't hate psychiatrists I don't hate mental health professionals I actually have the utmost respect and admiration for most of them because I know that they like me are treating people who otherwise society just wants to get rid of that society and families want to give up on and yet we in the mental health field prescribe pills that harm mitochondrial function, that harm metabolism. We prescribe pills that cause obesity, that cause type 2 diabetes, that cause cardiovascular disease, that cause premature mortality.

33:00And I want to point out, we didn't, I didn't say this yet, people with mental illness are dying early deaths across the board. It is transdiagnostic. It applies to every label in DSM. In a recent meta-analysis, over 100 studies, over 100 studies, 14 million people represented in the studies, on average, people with mental illness are dying 15 years early deaths. 15 years. They are losing 15 years of life. Everybody goes to suicide. Yes, the suicide rates are higher. And yes, that is one of the factors. And if a 20-year-old commits suicide, that does skew the statistics. So I'm not going to deny that.

33:42But the primary cause of death in the mentally ill is cardiovascular disease. It's just happening 15 years earlier in life. Which is primarily driven by metabolic dysfunction and insulin resistance. Metabolic dysfunction. They are dying of metabolic diseases 15 years earlier. It should be called cardiometabolic disease. I would love that. I would welcome that. And well, and again, because cardiovascular disease, cardiologists are focused on the heart is an organ that somehow lives in isolation of the rest of the body and brain, that it's all interconnected. Cardiovascular disease is also a systemic disorder.

34:21Obesity is a systemic disorder. Type 2 diabetes is a systemic disorder. And we need to think about that. Network medicine. We need to think about the network of the human body. The human body is a network of interconnected cells, tissues, and organs. And so back to your question, I don't want you to reflexively just go out and trust the mental health professional who wants to put you on an antipsychotic and mood stabilizer that's going to cause you to gain massive amounts of weight, that's going to cause you to develop other metabolic disorders, that's going to cause you to die an early death, please don't just go out and reflexively do that.

35:04At the same time, those treatments, I do want to say, I still use some of those treatments to this day, and in life-threatening situations, they can be life-saving. But I think about those treatments like I think about chemotherapy. Chemotherapy is literally poison. They're trying to poison your cancer before they poison you. But oncologists admit it. Oncologists admit I'm delivering poison. I'm not happy about it. I wish I had a better treatment. I wish I had something that would just kill their tumor and not harm the individual. But I don't. And I'm doing my best to save this person's life. In psychiatry, we deliver poisons.

35:45but we don't admit they're poisons, and we tell people to take them for life. We say, you've got this label, bipolar disorder. You need this poison. Go on it. We're really sorry it makes you feel like shit. We're really sorry it's causing you to become obese. This is really depressing. We're really sorry it's causing you to become type 2 diabetic. But just take your pills. Take them. And I know you're probably, on average, going to die an early death. I'm really sorry about that, but we don't know what else to do. I'm saying it is time for the mental health field to have a transformation, a revolution.

36:18Tell us. Help us understand this revolution. What's happening? And what's the hope and promise in this? The revolution is that if we understand the complex biology, so I'm not here to give you, here is the one, two, three recipe to cure all mental illness because it's not that simple. You know that as a functional medicine practitioner. I wish it was. It's not. Open your eyes to the possibility that there is something wrong with you, we can figure this out. It might take a while. We're not going to lose patience. We're not going to be deterred. We're not going to become overly frustrated. We are going to systematically figure out what is causing this metabolic dysregulation, this dysregulation in your biology.

37:06We are going to figure it out, and we're going to treat it. And the good news is that we have a lot of things we can do to test for those things now. Insulin resistance, we can test for. Blood pressure, we can test for. Gut pathology, we can test for. There are lots of things we can test for. Toxins. Toxins. We can test for a lot of these things and then potentially treat them directly. We can test for infections that nobody has diagnosed, Lyme disease, whatever. There are lots of things we can do. And even when we can't, Even when our testing capabilities are not yet where we want them to be, even when our medical knowledge is not yet where we want it to be, we can use what I call empirical metabolic treatments.

37:54And the one that I'm probably most known for is the ketogenic diet. And the ketogenic diet, unbeknownst to most people, a lot of people know it as a weight loss diet. It's a dangerous diet. They think that it's all bacon. You can actually be a vegan on a ketogenic diet. You can be a vegan ketogenic diet. So you can do a vegetarian version, an omnivore version. Yes, you can do a carnivore version. There are lots of versions of ketogenic therapies. But ketogenic therapy can change the lives of people with schizophrenia, with bipolar disorder, with chronic unrelenting depression. And in my mind, it's not that I want to promote the ketogenic diet is the be-all, end-all, fix-all, because it's not.

38:46I wish it was. There's many other things, yeah. But there are a lot of other things we can do. And it really is about this mindset shift that you have a treatable condition and it's on us to figure out how to treat it. But for the ketogenic diet, I will say that I have seen, you know, we talked about this, I think, last time I was on the podcast. There are patients with schizophrenia, 20 years, the longest example I know of, 53 years of chronic, unrelenting schizophrenia, put it into remission off antipsychotics for 15 years before she passed away at the age of 85. Unbelievable. So it was an enduring effect.

39:32The greatest hope, obviously, I'm using this treatment in a lot of people. I'm promoting this treatment. We've got 20 research trials underway. Two randomized controlled trials of ketogenic diet for schizophrenia just wrapped up this week. So within the next year, we're going to get those publications. We've got a$10 million grant from the Wellcome Trust, a very conservative health care kind of funding organization. $10 million to fund the largest trial of the ketogenic diet versus the UK healthy diet for the treatment of bipolar depression. And it will be the largest research trial ever done of a dietary intervention for the treatment of a mental illness ever.

40:21So we're making tremendous progress in this field. And I think a lot of leading, world-leading neuroscientists, psychiatrists are really excited about this. JAMA Psychiatry, the leading psychiatric journal in the world right now, just published a meta-analysis of the ketogenic diet as a treatment for depression and anxiety. Just published it. The fact that it made it into one of the leading medical psychiatric journals is nothing short of miraculous, honestly. I want to double-click on a few things you said because it's so important. I won't be able to get it. You said network medicine. The body is a system.

41:03It's an integrated, connected network. And there are many biological systems within that. There's your immune system, your microbiome, your mitochondria, your detoxification system, your communication systems. All these things we map out in functional medicine. And we have a very clear model of how to think about network medicine, which is there's stuff that disturbs a system that you need to get rid of, toxins, allergens, infections, poor diet, stress, trauma, whatever. And there's things you need to add to actually help the body thrive, whether it's the right nutrients, whether it's food, whether it's light, air, water, sleep, movement, connection, relationships, meaning, purpose, relationships, all those things are the medicine.

41:40So you take out the bad stuff, you put in the good stuff, but the key is to be able to dive in and diagnose what those things are. And they're different for everybody because depression, you know, in my first book, I wrote that because you know the name of the disease doesn't mean you know what's wrong with you. If someone says you have depression, it doesn't mean you have a Prozac deficiency. It's often caused by many things. So it could be caused by eating gluten that creates brain inflammation. It could be caused by an autoimmune thyroid condition that gives you hypothyroidism. It could be because you've been taking an acid blocker because you have a crappy diet and have B12 deficiency that's accumulated over years.

42:18It's because you live inside and go outside and work inside and have vitamin D deficiency. It could be because you're in some resistance. It could be because you eat a lot of mercury and have mercury poisoning, or you hate fish and have omega-3 deficiency, or it could be because you - You got COVID. You got COVID. And it could also be the obvious psychological or social reasons. It could be because your spouse is beating the shit out of you every day. Or you were sexually abused as a kid. It could be because your parents told you you were worthless every day of your life. It could be because your friends are alienating you for something that just happened and you feel shunned.

42:52Like, it can be any of those things. It can be biological, psychological, social, environmental. It can be any of those. Agreed. And that's why you have to learn how to be a detective and figure out what's going on with that individual. It's really personalized psychiatry. It is. And at the same time, I want to say, because I'm worried that sometimes when I say that exact same thing, people hear, again, a hopelessness. You're saying it's overwhelmingly complicated and nobody can figure it out. And I want to say, more often than not, the clues are relatively obvious. And we can do some basic blood work to get some really powerful signals and clues leading us in the right direction.

43:35Or you can just talk to the person. Talk to the person. You get an upset stomach every night. What are you eating? Have you ever tried an elimination diet? Have you ever tried to figure out what's causing your stomach to be upset? It's true. We can figure it out.

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46:06Chris, at Function Health, we've now tested over 300 ,000 people. We have probably over 50 million data points. And we see these patterns. We see over 90 % have some degree of insulin resistance. We see 13 % of autoantibodies through the thyroid, many of them not diagnosed, which causes depression. We see massive nutritional deficiencies, not at the level that I would think would be optimal, like vitamin D over 50, but like the reference range was just 30. Iron deficiency, vitamin D deficiency, omega-3 deficiency, folate deficiency through homocysteine, methylmalonic acid. And we see so many things on the function panel that are biomarkers of mental illness, which nobody talks about.

46:45So let's take a minute to kind of dive into a little bit about what are the biomarkers that you've been exploring around mental illness? Because you've been looking at some of these things like folate, B12, microplastics. Kind of tell us about your work in that area. It's really exciting. So I run the metabolic mental health program at McLean Hospital, Harvard Medical School. So we have the privilege of doing a lot of different research studies. And I'm really interested, again, in root causes. And so there are two antibodies that we're exploring that one of them prevents folate from crossing the blood-brain barrier.

47:22And the other is a brand new, newly discovered antibody that attacks a protein called CD320, which transports vitamin V12 across the blood-brain barrier. Prior to about three years ago, nobody was aware that humans could spontaneously develop this autoantibody. There is not a commercially available test. I know that's a logical question when I'm talking about it. Because people are going to be like, where can I get this test? It is not yet commercially available because it is so brand new. People are working on it. But the reason both of those antibodies are really important is folate and vitamin B12 are required for numerous reactions in the body.

48:13But most of them center on mitochondria and metabolism. That's right. They are primary. So if you have folate deficiency, you have a metabolic problem. If you have vitamin B12 deficiency and or a deficiency in the methylated versions because you're having trouble methylating them, you have a metabolic problem. That's the active form, right? And so the reason these antibodies are particularly intriguing to me as a psychiatrist is because if you measure their levels of folate and B12 from their arm, they will be normal. If you look for homocysteine in the periphery, it's normal. they show no signs from the biomarkers that we would normally measure from your blood they show no signs of being abnormal yeah the person can be eating the healthiest possible diet can have no gastrointestinal problems but can be profoundly deficient in folate or b12 in their central nervous system.

49:21Because the antibodies block. Because the antibodies are preventing the transport of these vitamins across the blood-brain barrier into the brain and spinal cord. The reason that's really important to me, again, is because on the surface, if I look at the person externally, they can look otherwise healthy and actually be otherwise healthy. Their heart can be relatively healthy because it's getting all the nutrients it needs. If the person's eating a healthy diet and exercising regularly, their heart probably is healthy. But their brain can be grossly impaired in terms of its ability to function.

50:00And when we see brain impairment in a relatively young person, guess what that gets called? 99 out of 100 times, it gets called a mental illness. We call that a mental illness. Your brain isn't working right. That's a mental illness. And then we slap a label on you. We say it's genetic. We treat you with relatively toxic medications for life. And then we just write you off. So the reason I'm interested in these antibodies is because it helps us understand, like I said, that the pathways are dominoes. There are a lot of dominoes in play. But let me walk you through one clear example. Because the leading theory about what would cause these antibodies to develop in the first place, the leading theory is inflammation of the blood-brain barrier.

51:00And that could be caused by a virus. So let's take a perfectly... Anything that causes inflammation. Anything that causes inflammation. But let me walk down that example. So you could have a perfectly happy, healthy child who gets a viral infection. They have neuroinflammation, including inflammation of the blood-brain barrier. Their immune system is primed for whatever reason to develop antibodies to CD320, which now prevents vitamin B12 from crossing the blood-brain barrier. this child, unlike most with COVID, for example, who recover and do fine, this child falls off a cliff, develops new onset psychotic symptoms, new onset OCD, new onset panic disorder.

51:50And sometimes we call it pans, pandas. Sometimes we call it something else. Sometimes we just call it a mental illness. And now this child has a mental illness due to a metabolic brain problem that we largely don't recognize. The reason in particular, so we're going to be doing the first ever study of these two antibodies in the largest cohort of people with schizophrenia. Yeah. So we're going to be looking for these antibodies in patients who have already been diagnosed with schizophrenia to see how many of them might have these antibodies. And then we're going to compare that to an equal cohort of healthy controls.

52:30By healthy, we don't mean completely healthy, because no one is. But we mean they've never been diagnosed with a mental illness. And we're going to see if there's a difference. The reason I'm particularly passionate and driven to do this research is because if we see these antibodies, there are clear treatments. If you have this antibody against folate, there is an existing treatment called leucovorin that we can deliver today to get folate into your brain and spinal cord. Even with no FDA approval needed, the FDA, in fact, just approved leucovorin as a treatment for autism for this exact reason.

53:13I mean, and Chris, when I, I've been, you know, practicing, I'm old for a long time and I've treated a lot of autistic kids. And one of the things we've been testing for decades is folate receptor antibodies. And they often are cross-reacting to dairy and you cut out the dairy and you give them high doses of methylated folate and the lights come on in these kids. And it doesn't mean that all autism is caused by this. It means that in some subsets, this is a problem. And if you look for it, you'll find it. And it's just remarkable that it's coming out with B12-related antibodies as well as the other folate antibodies.

53:44And it's treatable. And again, everybody, this is not the full solution. This is just in some particular subset of people with mental illness or autism, this is a problem. But it just points to the fact that we actually are now beginning to kind of tease apart the biological mechanisms, be able to diagnose it. I mean, you know, the joke is that neurologists pay no attention to the mind and psychiatrists pay no attention to the brain. And that's changing a lot. It is. It is. Well, and to tie even that research in with my existing research on ketogenic therapy. So could ketogenic therapy help somebody who has one of these autoantibodies?

54:20We have every reason to believe it might because ketogenic therapy is broadly anti-inflammatory and actually ramps down the immune system. Why does it do that? Because ketogenic therapy mimics the fasting state. When your body thinks it is starving, it actually reduces immune system function as a survival mechanism. Now, long term, it's anti-inflammatory. That is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Anti-inflammatory in over 20 studies looking at inflammatory biomarkers and ketogenic therapy. But it also reduces immune system like autoimmune disorders. orders. There's research on multiple sclerosis.

55:08Terry Walls is doing one of the largest studies of ketogenic diet versus whole food Mediterranean diet versus controlled diet for multiple sclerosis. Even in my world, when I deliver a ketogenic diet to somebody with schizophrenia and their symptoms get better, that's the way I'm thinking about it. Maybe this diet is actually reducing an autoimmune condition that is impairing their brain-body physiology. And so, is that a root cause treatment? I don't think of it as a root cause treatment. I actually think, I don't know what the actual root cause is, but ketogenic therapy might be correcting it.

55:50And interestingly, you know, fasting, fasting mimicking that, fasting's been around for millennia in every culture for a reason, because it actually works. and there's a reason it works and it's because our physiology is kind of designed that way. It resets, yeah. This is an amazing conversation, Chris. And I think all this conversation points to, as you mentioned, a revolution in psychiatry. And the way I see psychiatry changing, I read a book we chatted a little bit about called Madness to Civilization when I was in college by Michel Foucault, which talks about how we think about mental health through the ages, you know, visitation by gods or, you know, when Freud, it was all about the ego and superego and it and your childhood, and then was this sort of neurochemical serotonin model.

56:34And now we're coming out, I think maybe with a closer representation of understanding human biology, like the nature of nature or understanding what I call the laws of nature. If I asked, you know, what are the laws of biology? Most people would have not have a clue. They'd say, oh, maybe evolution, but the laws of physics we've described, but there are laws of biology. We just have been shitty at figuring it out. And what you're pointing to are some of these fundamental laws. And there's just, it's so exciting to me to be in this moment in the world of psychiatry. And I, I hope it scales up faster than, you know, it's doing right now because it's hard to change the paradigm.

57:05And I think there's another revolution that's happening at the same time, which is, I think, going to be married together with this, which is psychedelic psychiatry. And, you know, there's now been trials that is about to approve MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD and other things. I just was in Mexico at a place called Beyond, and I had the chance to do something called Ibogaine, which I'm going to do a whole podcast on and talk about. but it's a powerful neurochemical reset and it hits all the receptors in the brain and it literally changes brain function, brain size, brain structure, heals brain trauma.

57:37I met a Navy SEAL there who had significant head trauma. He was a blast expert and he said before and after his MRI, his brain areas that were damaged healed. And so there are many ways to intercede. And I personally went through this last week and I just had the most profound changes in my own sense of self, my well-being, my mental health symptoms, everything changed. And I'm still like a newborn out. It's been like three days, and we're going to talk about it at a length of the podcast. But I think these two revolutions really provide so much hope. And I think most people, like you said, are hopeless that have mental health issues.

58:15And I feel like we're in this incredibly potent time where we're going to see a real change in our approach and our thinking to mental health. And you are a pioneer in this. I would love you to just close out by saying, what do you think is next? Like, where are we going with this? And how is this being readied by your colleagues? Is this something that's going to become more part of psychiatric care? You know, one of the most common questions I get is like, are you getting a lot of pushback? And there are people who are pushing back, but more often than not, I'm pleasantly surprised almost in disbelief the positive reception i'm getting i i just gave a grand rounds presentation to a lot of medical professionals at one of the harvard affiliated hospitals 150 people immediately after that i had i got all of this praise all of this people want to come train well they know what they're doing doesn't work it's like they're frustrated they're They're depressed, the psychiatrists.

59:17No, they are. They are. And I think that, so I think that, you know, one of the really positive things that I do want to say about mental health professionals is, you know, that's kind of the negative spin, but the positive spin is their open-mindedness. I think they do recognize what we're doing isn't working, not fully, that our patients are dying. Our patients are getting sick. Our patients aren't getting better. We want more tools in our toolbox. We know what you're saying is true. And I think that they are desperate for better solution. And that's how we've gotten some of the leading psychiatrists and neuroscientists to be doing studies of ketogenic therapy for mental illness.

1:00:04But again, I think the field of medicine needs to move in the area of functional medicine, network medicine, whatever we want to call it. And we just need to call it medicine. I feel like jumping up and down and going, hallelujah, hallelujah. You need to call it medicine. Yeah, I agree. And so one of the reasons, like, you know, one of the terms that's getting— I get the chills. I mean, here you are, a Harvard psychiatrist at the world's top psychiatric hospital, and you're saying functional medicine is coming out of your mouth. And I'm like, really? You know, it's kind of mind-blowing because it is so obvious when you see it.

1:00:47I mean, the body is a network. It's a system. We can't keep doing things the way we're doing them. They're not working. So many people are suffering. So many people are dying. And there is a pathway to get better. And I think that there are sometimes fields, forces that have maybe worked independently of each other, lifestyle medicine. You know, the field of lifestyle medicine, some of those people hate the ketogenic diet. Because, again, they're focused on plant-sourced foods. It's got to be plant-sourced foods. They don't even realize that you can be vegan and on a ketogenic diet. And so they fear that I'm promoting steak and bacon.

1:01:27And so I'm part of the evil, you know, adversaries. And it's like, but increasingly, I think when they hear me speak about this, they increasingly get on board. And so I feel like, you know, I sometimes actually think that this may actually be one of the strategies of some powerful industries is to divide and conquer. Divide lifestyle medicine from low-carb ketogenic people, from functional medicine people. Get them all to call each other quacks. Get them all to make fun of each other and then let them fight amongst themselves so that we can keep remaining dominant in our narrative of medical education.

1:02:17And instead, I think that we, all of these people who are promoting exercise and lifestyle nutrition and functional medicine, integrative medicine, whatever labels you want to give them, we need to band together. We need to join forces. It doesn't mean we have to agree on everything. It doesn't mean, like, but we need to come together and fight because we are fighting Goliath. We are all little Davids, and they have the little Davids fighting amongst themselves so that Goliath doesn't even have to spend a penny of resources to fight us. We need to come together and use our little slingshots and aim and fire simultaneously.

1:02:58And I'm increasingly convinced that we are doing that. I mean, I think eudaimonia is a great example. This conference that we're at is a great example of that, that we have a lot of different voices, a lot of different perspectives, but we can find the common connections and the commonalities and work together to improve health. And I am truly excited about it. I think, you know, when you look at politics in the United States, I don't want to go there too much, but chronic disease is now part of the national narrative. Yeah. Thank God. And it needs to be part of the national narrative. And again, the solutions people are going to bicker about.

1:03:39But I think what increasingly almost everybody agrees on is what we're doing isn't working. And that we need a new strategy. We need new efforts. And so I'm really excited about it. Because at the end of the day, I became a psychiatrist to help human beings who are struggling and suffering. and I simply want to alleviate their suffering and improve their lives. Thank you, Chris. And I feel like we're getting there. Thank you, Chris. I'm going to close by a Machiavellian quote, which is, there's nothing more difficult to introduce than a new order of things because the innovator has enemies in all those who have done well under the old conditions and lukewarm defenders and those who may do well under the new.

1:04:19So it's very hard to change things, but I think we're seeing it. And again, you're the tip of the spear. Thank you for the work you're doing. I can't wait to see what comes next. And everybody pay attention to Chris's work who's listening and check out what he's doing, read his books, Brain Energy, and work on them and learn more about your work. They can go to brainenergy.com. They can go to chrispalmermd.com. Great, wonderful. Well, thanks, Chris, for being on the podcast. Thank you all for being on the podcast. If you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it.

1:04:49You can find me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to The Dr. Hyman Show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at Dr. Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on The Dr. Hyman Show. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center, my work at Cleveland Clinic, and Function Health, where I am Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions.

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1:05:49It's important to have someone in your corner who is a trained, licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. This podcast is free as part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the public. So I'd like to express gratitude to sponsors that made today's podcast possible. Thanks so much again for listening.