How Books Can Shape Success

0:00You know, over the years, you've heard me talk a lot about marketing systems.

0:30Tape Marketing 3.0. As a dad, I couldn't be prouder, but I want you to check it out at dtm.world slash unchained and get ready to take your strategy to a whole new level.

0:52Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jansen. My guest today is Todd Satterston. He's a publishing veteran, business book expert, and CEO of Bard Press. He's helped launch and shape bestsellers like The One Thing and The Gift of Struggle. With a career spanning more than two decades in the book industry, Todd is known for a discerning eye for transformative business and self-help books. With that in mind, we're going to talk about his latest project, 100 Books for Work and Life. It distills a lifetime of reading and Curating into an Essential Guide for Anyone Seeking Wisdom, Growth, and Practical Tools for Success.

1:31So, Todd, welcome to the show. John, thanks for having me. Out of the billions of books out there, you have called out what you're calling the 100 best. So, was there a selection process or was it really just like, hey, these are all books I've read and liked? Was there a criteria? Well, I think both are true. And I think there's certain criteria. I think the first thing that I look for in books now are, are they teaching me? Are they approaching the project in a different manner? Right? Like all of us have been doing this long enough, whether I've just started in the industry or I've read lots of books and I have lots of experience, we need something that changes our thinking about really important topics.

2:15I think that's the first thing. I think the second thing is, gosh, I want clarity, right? I want books that when I read them, I'm going, go, yes, this makes sense. I understand it. It's good storytelling. You're really judging the book just as a book, almost in an art kind of way. Is the writing good? Do I understand what they're trying to teach me? I'd say those are probably the two most important things I would say. So were there any, let's just get this out of the way right now. Okay. Were there any books that you just were agonized or were not included? Yes. Duct tape marketing. Of course I had to I had to agonize over that.

2:54Well, here's what I think is interesting. I was thinking about these parallels before I came on that I think the 100 best has a lot of parallels to duct tape marketing. And what I mean by that is what I love about your book and what I've loved about it from the start, you and I hung out in the old 800 CRD days that you cover this really broad set of topics within your book. Like, what are all the things that a small business owner needs to think about? I tried to do something similar in the 100 best where I said, let's make a small chapter on customers. What does an ideal customer look like? Let's make a small chapter on marketing on sales, on influence.

3:28So there's a where do I go put duct tape marketing was like kind of one of those problems that we had to go solve. So yes, of course there were books I had to leave out because you get to a point there's only 100 slots. How do you get there? So are there any books that that are on the list that you would say, hey, this hit me at the right moment? Because I think sometimes books are impactful because that's what you needed to read, right? And there are times when I've gone back and reread a book and I was like, wow, when did they put that in there? You know, because it didn't mean anything to me at the time because I didn't understand.

4:04So were there any examples of these books that you feel like, hey, they've really changed my career, my direction? You know, I think that when you look at books in general and you look at the last 20, 25 years of business and self-help, I think the neuroscience, just the study and expansion of how much we know about neuroscience has really changed our view on a whole wide range of things. So the book that I think does this best in encapsulating that and encapsulating that in a work setting in particular is a book called Your Brain at Work by David Rock. I think he's done the best job of taking this neuroscience saying, hey, when you're frustrated at work, this is probably what's going on.

4:47Hey, when you get into a situation where you show up late for a meeting and you're going in and you need to try to bring your best self to that meeting, here's the things you need to be aware of that are probably going on with you, like literally in your brain, that if you don't slow down just a little bit, you're probably going to miss an opportunity in those next moments that are really important to you. So I just love how he finds these moments that are normally challenging for us in a variety of different ways and then shows us what's going on and then gives us a different approach to those.

5:18So I gotta be honest, that's one that I keep coming back to. I relate to what you were just talking about, John, that my experience is going back to the book where you go, how come I don't see the thing that I thought this book was about? Where you just end up having a whole different thought that sometimes the author didn't even intend and you end up with this completely different learning. So I sometimes like those experiences as well. So this isn't just about business. Obviously, you cover a lot of work, certainly, but you cover a lot of life. Are these so interrelated that you felt like, you know, I don't have to choose one or the other or have a balance.

5:52It's like, you know, these things all go together. So were there any books that you felt like or you feel like really blurred the lines between those two? Yeah, so one of the reasons, I wrote a book about 15 years ago called The 100 Best Business Books of All Time. And what I found with that is it was super helpful. A lot of people loved it. But I found that categorization a little confining, that there were topics that I couldn't talk about that I wanted to. And to your point here, I love that I think we've gotten to a point in most work settings that we realize the problems that we're dealing with in the workplace often look an awful lot like the problems we're dealing with in our personal life.

6:34lives, whether it's, you know, at home, whether it's I'm on a community board, whether whatever the case might be. And so I love the fact that I could put both of those together. So one example I would think of that I think really fits this is I'm a huge fan of Grits by Angela Duckworth. Is that a business book? Kind of. Is it a personal development book? Yeah. But when I create this frame for the hundred best that I can put both in there, I think then there's an opportunity for us to have these bigger discussions of things we're trying to do in both parts and maybe even break down the barrier between the two.

7:13Yeah. And I think especially I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, that there is no there is no blurring of the lines because there is no line. And so, you know, I will often have people come on, talk about health and fitness, you know, on my show, because it's really applicable, right? Yeah. I mean, I always think about, there's a chapter in here about relationships now and relationships wouldn't be something that I think would necessarily fit in a book about business books. But I love the fact that I might read a book by say John Gottman, who I think is probably one of the leading experts on sort of marriage and long-term partnerships.

7:50And that if I don't learn something that lets me bring, that I can't bring into my workplace, that I can build better relationships in those places, then I think I'm missing something. So I just love this opportunity to bring more books. And I think people generally want to read those kinds of books where they can, they can see an improvement across all aspects of their lives. So how much research, additional research did you have to do? I suspect half of these books you read professionally or because you were personally interested. I wrote a book a few years back where I had to actually do a deep dive into most of the transcendental literature.

8:27So Emerson and Thoreau and whatnot. And I mean, I had spent six months, you know, reading stuff that I was familiar with, but certainly hadn't read. Did you kind of have a similar thing where you kind of had your topics together and then you just went on this giant reading bench? Yeah. So it took four years to put the book together. And so it sounds kind of similar in that I would say that going in, I probably knew 60 to 70 of the books that should be in here. And I probably knew there's 25 chapters. We haven't said that yet. There's 25 chapters. Each chapter has roughly four books. So you get this really concentrated view of a very particular topic or problem that you're trying to work on.

9:06And my experience was that I, you know, so I'd read probably two thirds of the books over those last 10 or 15 years. I read 50, 60, 70 books a year, probably a book a week. And so I had a lot, I had a wonderful backlog, but then in that additional time, what are the books that belong next to those? Or how do I decide that the one thing should be in focus rather than goal setting, rather than habits? So some of that sorting of where do you put a book and create interesting books next to each other to kind of create good contrast. I would say that That's where the additional work was. The sorting and then figuring out where do I fill in the blanks?

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10:28I know a lot of these books, especially in the business category, probably had half of the authors on my show, but there's some that I've not heard of. I mean, on this list, if you're going to pick one title that you think is like criminally underrated or misunderstood, is there one? Oh, that's a great question. So I'm looking at my shelf right here. I have all 100 sitting right here. Here's what I would say. I think that Tiny Habits by B.J. Fogg is criminally underrated. I think there's, what's fascinating to me about the habit space is that you had a book like A Power of Habit, Charles Duhigg.

11:08A lot of people love that. A good summary of all the research, kind of very meta. A journalist take. Right? You have Atomic Habits, which if you don't have a copy, you have three copies. And if you haven't tripped over it in any bookstore, 25 million copies. Thanks, James Clear, right? But B.J. Fogg is a book that came out roughly in the same era as Atomic Habits. And I think that if you love process, if you love here are the steps, here are the things, I think he does it better than anybody, both figuring out how to form good habits, but then actually also how to break bad habits. I think he perfectly addresses both of of those.

11:54And I think we all have both of those that we got to work on. So please go check out Tiny Habits. I know that was unfair to say, which won, but I think you nailed it. So some of these books are old, decades old, right? Some are much more recent. Any patterns that you would say, hey, this is what makes a book truly timeless, a business book particularly, or was there a recent book, frankly, that you think, hey, this is going to stand the test of time. Yeah. I think we still read books like Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. We still read How to Win Friends and Influence People because they are largely written in a way where time is not in the text.

12:39They're talking about something. They're talking about literally a conversation with someone, a situation they found themselves in. And you wouldn't know if it was today or if it wasn't 1920. And so I think the books that stand the test of time, Peter Drucker's effective executive, I think is another book that fits in this category. Here you've got these books that are written in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, I guess into the 80s. Like that's what Seven Habits was. I think those are the kinds of books that stand the test of time. So I think that piece is important. I also think, though, we should have books that we put next to those that do speak to a modern context.

13:17Like if you think about books that work, I don't know what the dividing line is. Maybe it's 2010, maybe it's 2005, sort of pre-iPhone, post-iPhone. Like it's hard to know what to do if they're focused on technology. Like how do you, right? How do you figure out which book to work on? So I think that you can write a book that's timeless. And I also think there are timely books that are also important. And understand that they're helpful right now. I'm going to use that information. the context is right and that there may be another book that readjustes that five or ten years from now all right are there any books that you feel like let's see the right way to answer are kind of newly relevant like you mentioned peter drucker one of my favorite books is the practice of management and i think it's actually in some ways newly relevant i mean the language is old-fashioned i mean he uses a lot of the band you know pronouns you know when he's talking about business and whatnot.

14:14But I think that some of the idea of trust and that marketing and innovation are, you know, the key components of a business, I feel feels newly relevant. Did you find any books that did that for you? I think the book that I always go back to and that I'm, that I'm frankly shocked by is How to Win Friends Influence People. Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? I was at the, I was gonna say hairdresser, I guess the barber the other day. I was talking about the book and they're like, oh my God, I love how to influence and influence people. I thought you've read how to influence and influence people. And there's like, it's so topical.

14:52It fits what I try to do every day. It makes more sense. It makes so much sense to me. And again, what are we saying? We're saying these are the same things. I mean, humans have not changed a lot in the last hundred years. Like summarize that book. Don't be a jerk. Right. Like know someone's name, pay attention to what's going on with them? Like, gosh, those are just good human qualities. And by the way, it might make them feel more warmly about you. And these days and times when everybody kind of looks like this, and for those who are listening, I'm looking at my hand that looks like my phone.

15:26Some of those reminders are really important. You provide, I think, some guidance in this about when to read what in life. So can you share any stories, examples, how the right book at the right time can be transformative. Yeah. I mean, the first thing I want to say is that I think we love reading books that we're really comfortable with. Like what? Things that we already know things about or. Validating almost. Validate. Yeah. Lots of almost reading for business entertainment. Like I'm entertained because, oh gosh, that's such an interesting story, whatever else. The encouragement I would try to give your listeners today would be read in a spot that you are uncomfortable.

16:08So if, you know, if you open up the end pages, the very front of the book in the hundred best, we have 25 different topics. My guess is there's something you're trying to work on. That's really difficult. And I'm going to give you four books to sort of survey that problem, kind of survey the area of where that problem, what that problem might look like and four different solutions for how you deal with it. So if there's anything I would love people to do is I'd love people to read more for really true self-improvement rather than maybe for, I don't want to say fake, but maybe for a validation.

16:47I like your word really well there. Well, there definitely are. You see it all the time in social posts. You know, I've read 473 books this year. And I'm wondering if you're sort of suggesting like reading for volume or for the badge, you know, is probably not going to help you any. Yeah, I think that if you're reading that fast, I think we can question comprehension. Yeah. I think if you're reading that fast, we can also again question, are you working on and learning about the topics that are really difficult for you? One of the things I always remember, John, is that when they do eye scans of people reading, it's amazing how fast they go back over what they read.

17:31That it isn't some continuous down the page. It's a sentence. Wait, let me read that sentence prior. Let me read that sentence again. That kind of reading is the reading that I want to encourage people to have, that they're being challenged by what it is. Like, if there's one theme that exists across all of these books, it's a question of self-awareness. All of these books are about building broader self-awareness or whatever it is that we do. And it turns out self-awareness is a high predictor of creativity. It's a high predictor of empathy. Leadership. Leadership, right, on and on. Just changing your awareness of a problem, of being willing to look at the problem, changes how you view the problem.

18:14Like that's what the self-awareness, mindfulness folks say. So, gosh, that would be my biggest piece of advice I think I would give to anybody. You know, and I think you mentioned this specifically in there, this idea of reading with intention. I have for years kind of, I must admit, I, you know, I have to do a lot of professional reading sometimes that is to do this job. But there's many times where I have, especially early on in my career, what I would pick up a book with the intention of trying to find an answer to a specific problem. or with the intention of saying, I'm going to read this unrelated book.

18:48And it's a book about architecture, for example. And I'm going to look for examples of how to build community for, you know, as a way to process like a new way to look at something that nobody's, I mean, the author did not intend that to be in the book, but it was rife with examples that I could then apply to a whole nother way. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, but then just really more on this idea of reading with intention. Yeah, so I think the most interesting chapter for me in The 100 Best is a book, is a chapter called Starting. And in that chapter, I have, what is it like to start a new job?

19:29What's it like to start a career if I'm in my 20s? What's it like to start my morning? Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod. What's it like to start a new business? So I love what you're talking about there, John, because I'll bet you I could read through that chapter and be inspired in new things that I'm trying to do, independent of the timeframe almost that we're speaking of. And I think in each one of those, you would see something new or different. Or like the example I gave earlier, go read all the books on relationships and see all the other relationships that you might be able to influence, whether it's business relationships, whether it's personal relationships.

20:12There's a power in a relationship to relationship no matter what. Like it's only what barriers we put between them that cause the trouble that we get ourselves into, frankly. So you synthesize most of these books into some cases a page, two pages. Am I going to like get the essence there and like, thanks, Todd, for reading that book for me? Or do you really suggest that like if something resonates, go get them? Yeah. So my intention, both with this book and with the prior book, was always I want to convince you to go read the book. Like I want to give you like someone described this to me the other day.

20:49They said, I don't feel like there were views of the books there, but rather you write interpretations of the books. Like there's an interpretation there of, here's something that's really important that this author is bringing up. I would think there's a rough summary, frankly, of what you get out of each one of them. But I try to give an opening quote to kind of frame up what I think the author is really talking about. Oftentimes it's the promise of the book, followed by that interpretation, 600 words, 700 words. And then there's a takeaway at the end of every review of like, here's something.

21:20If you wanted some more questions to think about, maybe a short framework that kind of frames up how the author talks about it. So I try to give a lot of different utility within those reviews that even if you just read the review, John, I think you would still get something out of it. But gosh, do I hope you go read these books? Absolutely. Okay, here comes the terribly unfair question. Okay. If I was a young entrepreneur just getting started and I came to you and said, Todd, give me three. Give me three books. That's all I can afford right now. Are there three you would choose and why? Yes. The first book I would probably choose, Young Entrepreneur, that's the persona we're talking about.

22:04First book I would have someone go read is Badass by Kathy Sierra. And again, I'm going to tie this to your framework. One of the first things you say is make sure we understand who your ideal customer is. Kathy does it as well as anybody. And this is my favorite line from her. We shouldn't compete about, how does she say it? She wants us to compete for having the most educated, the most successful customers, like the best users, the people who can do it better than everyone else. So I think that's the first one I would say. I think that one's really good. I love that because, I mean, that's, they're going to get results.

22:44Yeah. You're going to actually help them. Right. Right, right, right. Make that the metric. Make the metric of how much better are you making your customers? And if you do it better than your competitors, you're not going to have any problem being successful. Right? Yeah. So that's one. That one's really important to me. I don't know how you can't probably read Sheldini book Influence. Yeah. Gosh, entrepreneurs, whether we're talking to investors, customers, employees, other stakeholders, we've got to have good influencing skills. We've got to understand what tools are available to us in a variety of different situations.

23:25And if we don't understand authority versus making commitments versus scarcity versus liking, we just don't understand the basics of those pieces, I think we're really missing out. No, Robert told me that he actually wrote that book so people wouldn't be unduly influenced. And then, yes, the greatest book on influence. Yeah. Well, he said he was afraid he'd be too much of a dupe for the techniques that people would use. And so I feel like you can read that book and say, like, almost like you said, you can use them for forces of evil. But I think you can also use them for the forces of good. So I'm hoping.

24:02Yeah, that's certainly right. Absolutely. All right, we're up to number three. Number three. I think if I am an entrepreneur, then the last thing I need to be able to do is I need to be able to coach people, frankly. And I think coaching is an underrated skill. I think it's becoming the primary skill of being a good manager. With the new generations, what kind of management they're looking for, they're not looking for how to be told what to do. They're looking for, gosh, how can you make me better at what I'm doing? So I think coaching is really good. I'm going to probably go with The Coaching Habit by Michael Bengay-Staner.

24:43It's a short book. There's seven questions. And if those seven questions don't improve the conversations again that you're having with your employees, that you're having with your spouse when they're struggling, when you're having with your kids, I can't say possibly. It's the shortest way into it. And then go check out the other three books that I've got on coaching in the 100 best. But coaching is such an important skill. John, am I on the right track there? Do you agree? Like when you think about entrepreneurship coaching? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's unfair to say three because, you know, you could throw the MBA, Josh's book in there.

25:21There's so many books you could throw in there. But certainly as a leadership skill, the sooner you learn that you don't have to have all the answers. If you're going to have employees, you know, the better off you'll be. No question. So Todd, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the Ductate Marketing Podcast. Where do you want to invite people to connect with you and obviously pick up a copy of 100 Best Book? Yeah, I think all of our work is at bardpress.com. If you want to find out more information about the book itself, it's the100, the number, the100.best. Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we'll run into you again soon after on the road.