How To Sell Customer Experience, Not Customer Service

0:28Let me ask you a few things. to consistently grow their business. Over the years, I've worked with thousands of businesses, helping them do just that, create the perfect marketing strategy and plan that gives total clarity about what to do next, confidence to charge ahead and charge more, and complete control of the marketing tactics they choose. I would love to help you and your team do the same. Look, to find out if our Strategy First program is right for you, visit DTM.com. dot world slash grow and request a free consultation. That's DTM dot world slash grow.

1:16Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Chance. My guest today is Jeannie Walter. She is an award-winning customer experience expert, international keynote speaker, and founder of Experience Investigators, a firm helping companies increase sales and customer attention through elevated customer experiences. She's a charter member of the Customer Experience Professionals Association and having worked with numerous Fortune 500 companies, including Orange Theory Fitness, SAP, Comcast, and JPMorgan Chase, just to name a few. We're going to talk about customer experience.

1:54So Jeannie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, John. I'm thrilled to be here. So I start a lot of my shows asking people to define terms. And I find that there's a lot of terms out there that we use every day that maybe people have, maybe they have a misunderstanding, or I think, well, at least I like to get your baseline. So when somebody says customer experience, how do you define that? Well, I'm so glad you asked because it is a term that gets thrown around a lot. And often when I introduce myself and I say something about customer experience, people kind of immediately make the mental jump to customer service.

2:29And they love to tell me their worst customer service story as a customer, right? And customer service is part of the experience. But the way that we define customer experience is it is literally what happens throughout the entire journey. Every interaction you have between a brand and a customer from before they even know they need you to all the way to when they leave you or become a lifelong customer. And I also like to remind people that, you know, your customers are having an experience whether you talk about it or not. And so what we try to really help our clients with and what I've been dedicated to for all this time is really helping leaders get more proactive and intentional about designing the customer experience so that you can really relate to what customers actually need in that moment and then give them that so that they keep going through the journey with you.

3:27So as I listened to you describe that, you know, there would be some, myself included, that would argue that sounds like marketing. I knew this was coming. So where is customer experience a subset of marketing? Does it walk alongside marketing? How do you fit that in? So I look at it as two different lenses that complement each other. So marketing is really an act inside the business to help connect with customers and help actually kind of guide them to where we think they should go next. Right. That's what we're trying to do. Customer experience is more about understanding from the customer's perspective, what is it they need when, so that we can actually design that inside the organization.

4:13A lot of the work we do in customer experience is helping really us as business leaders understand how to even understand the customer journey. Because we are taught to kind of think about our role and our org chart and all of those things. The customer doesn't care. Plus, I think a lot of it goes on today without our knowledge, right? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We have so much less control than we did 10, 15 years ago, for sure. So how do you, a lot of times when people think customer experience, you know, they'll say like, oh, we need to wow our customers or, you know, which, you know, that could be good.

4:52But how do you first align? I know with marketing plans and marketing strategy, we always try to align them with business goals. I assume that there's a role for that alignment when you talk customer experience, isn't there? Yes, absolutely. And this is one of the, I think, kind of persistent myths out there is that as customer experience leaders, we need to care about kind of our customer satisfaction rate or our net promoter score or things like that, which absolutely. But those are measurements. They are indicators. They aren't outcomes. So what I like to do is look at what are the organizational goals?

5:29What are we trying to do here? And what are the levers we need to pull within the customer experience to help us both understand how to get there and also look for opportunities and challenges and ways that we can just kind of make things a little easier for our customers, a little less friction. I personally don't believe we have to wow every customer every time because that's not realistic either. It's exhausting. Yeah, it's exhausting. And some of those things that are held up as those wow moments, they're not scalable, right? They're things that are PR. They're great PR and marketing, but they're not necessarily scalable.

6:06So what we like to look at is really understanding what does your customer need in this moment and how do we know? Because sometimes humans say one thing and they behave differently. So you can have all the surveys in the world and you could still get it wrong. So you really need to be savvy about understanding customer behavior, operational metrics, the indicators that are out there to help us get the business outcomes that we're aiming to get. Yeah, what was that Henry Ford saying? If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse. That's right. That's right. That's right.

6:42And innovation is a huge part of this and it's a huge opportunity. But that means that you can't just ask because humans don't make any sense. So, well, and a lot of the greatest innovations out there, you know, the iPod, you know, for example, I mean, you know, nobody was even thinking about that as, you know, something that they needed. Right. I mean. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So what role do you see, increasing role? There's definitely a role, huge role for good or bad, technology playing in customer experience. I mean, you have technology that I think at one point, sometimes people look at it as, oh, good, we'll never have to talk to those damn customers again.

7:22Right. Because we've got this technology that'll do it. And then there's also places where it's like, no. The example I always love to use is when I go see my eye doctor, I don't want to have to call somebody. I want to go on there, schedule my appointment. They've got my record there. You know, to me, that was a better customer experience. But when I'm getting, you know, I'm getting examined, I want somebody who's very, you know, hands on, very listening and different experience. So how do you kind of help people navigate technology? Yeah, it's a great question because, I mean, one thing to keep in mind is technology is a tool in the toolkit, right?

7:59You still have to figure out what is the overall strategic vision that you have? What are you trying to do? Who are you serving? All of those things. But what I really am seeing that I get excited about is actually exactly your example. We want more self-service options as customers. We want to be able to have choice based on context. Sometimes I hear people categorize people like, well, the big one before the pandemic, the big one was, well, anybody 50 plus, they're not a digital customer, right? And of course, that is not true. It's all about context. There are times where you don't want to call.

8:39There are times where you need to call. And we need to give customers options. And technology gives us so many great ways to, again, proactively think about this and design those touch points. So if somebody gets stuck with that technology, do they have an option where they can call somebody who knows that they've already been through that? Because the most frustrating thing that can happen is you spend your life telling a chat about your life story, right? And then they can't help you and you pick up the phone and call and they didn't know that happened. They have no visibility. And that's the technology I'm seeing that I think will vastly improve the customer experience is connecting the dots inside the organization and giving the right people the right visibility so that when you call and you're already angry and you're frustrated because you just went through that chat bot thing, somebody who is answering that call understands that's where you are in your journey and can respond immediately and say, I have all your information.

9:38I know exactly what to do next. And I'm sorry that happened. So I think we have to blend the ease and efficiency of technology with the understanding and empathy of humans on a regular basis and look for ways that we can basically jump in at either point and give customers the options that they are asking for. Even if you think it's a bit overhyped, AI is suddenly everywhere, from self-driving cars to molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast. But AI needs a lot of speed and computing power. So how do you compete with costs spiraling out of control?

10:18It's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or OCI. OCI is a blazing fast and secure platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, plus all your AI and machine learning workloads. OCI costs 50 % less for compute and 80 % less for networking. So you're saving a pile of money. Thousands of businesses have already upgraded to OCI, including MGM Resorts, Specialized Bikes, and Fireworks AI. Right now, Oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to OCI. For new U.S. customers with minimum financial commitment, offer ends 12-31-24.

11:03See if your company qualifies for this special offer at oracle.com slash duct tape. That's oracle.com slash duct tape. You bring up a good point, though. The cliche of the generational thing that you used there. But there are realities in some generational differences, right, into how people want to be treated or at least what their expectations are. You know, I always kind of tease my kids if I can be cliche. I'm just a lot more patient than they are. If something doesn't work the way it's supposed to work, they're out of there. And I'm like, okay, let's try another path. Do companies need to try to understand that?

11:43Is it possible to understand the generational differences? Absolutely. And I think a big one that I'm seeing is that the way we behave as customers is very different. And part of that is, I mean, there used to be an expression that if your mom used Tide detergent, you used it, right? There was just no question. And now the younger generations are much more likely to, number one, align their values with who they do business with. And they are very serious about this. There have been other generations who talk about it but aren't necessarily acting on it. These younger generations are acting on that.

12:20So you need to make sure you're visible and transparent with your values in a different way in order to attract the right customers. The other part of that is, to your point, there's some irony in some of the behavioral assumptions we make because some of the younger generations are actually more savvy about when to call. So they reach a certain point and they know the only way I'm going to get this solved is by calling, but they're prepared for it. They're not like they're not frazzled. They're just solving their problem in a different way. So we have to, again, figure out what's the best way to serve them in that moment within this context.

12:58Because I really believe that all of us as humans, I mean, the world is changing at such an incredible speed and we have to learn new things every single day, right? Like we can't just do what we did last week and we have to keep up with that for customers, but it's all about the context of the need and where they are in their journey and also who they are. There are some people who, you know, they want quick answers. They don't want a lot of empathy. They just want you to tell them what's wrong and move on. There are other people who they want the whole thing. They want to tell you everything that happened.

13:32And so we need to figure out how do we recognize those people and serve them in the best possible way in that moment. And some of that is generational and a lot of that is contextual now. So I'm going to come back to that point, but you mentioned speed. And I would say speed has become a huge driver today of customer experience or at least expectation. I was watching a movie the other day and these kind of teenage kids, their mom had died a few years ago, and they found a camera of hers and it had film in it. And so they took it to a place and they said, and the guy said, do you want the one hour service?

14:08And they were like, it's going to take an hour. That's a great example. It really is. And I do think, you know, so, so how are you factoring in the idea that speed has just become an expectation? Well, I think in a way it's always been an expectation, but we've been learned to, we've learned as customers kind of how to be complacent about it. Right. And so one of the things that I always look for is what are the assumptions we're making about time? And what I mean by that is, for instance, I love one of the things I love to ask in these workshops we do is, you know, OK, what's what do you do really well here?

14:50And a lot of people say, well, we get back to people. We're really friendly. And I'll say, okay, so what's your definition of soon? And you get like 18 different answers, right? Because if you don't define what we mean by those time indications, we are going to set the wrong expectations for customers. And that's where disappointment comes in. So some of this is about setting the right expectations and being proactive when we don't know something, when we have to call back and say, hey, I don't have this yet, but I will. And so I think part of what customers are expecting is the worst, right? Like you're not going to call me back when you say you're not, or what do you mean it's going to take an hour?

15:34That's a great example. That's crazy to them. And so we need to make sure that when we talk about time, we are all speaking the same language. And sometimes that's just not the case right now. Yeah, because so much of success in life and plus a lot of business is just meeting expectations, right? If you thought it was coming Friday and it came Thursday, you're a hero. But if it came Saturday, it's like, no, the whole thing failed. So how much of this in an organization, when I heard you describing people making decisions about, oh, this person's already angry, so I need to handle it this way, how much of that is taught?

16:16How much of that is just culture? Oh, that's a great question, John. I think, I mean, it's definitely a combination of both because we can teach and train to so many different scenarios and somebody will show up with a totally different one the next day, right? because humans have all sorts of crazy stuff happen. So we have to both develop a culture where people feel empowered by a similar value structure. And what I mean by that is we use something called a customer experience mission statement. And the reason we started developing this is because we saw that a lot of people said things like, well, we want to deliver exceptional customer experiences, but you and I might handle those things differently based on our life experience and our judgment and all of that.

17:04And neither one is wrong. It's just different. But if you are inconsistent, that actually chips away at the trust with the customer. So we want to make sure that we are really, you know, aligned around a culture that empowers people to make the right decisions in the right moment. Having said that, we need to spend some time on teaching and training and alignment because otherwise we are just asking everybody. I mean, one of my favorite examples of this is I was looking at the goals of an organization and one of their big goals was we need to deliver friendlier experiences for our customers. And I said, well, how do you know?

17:43Right. Like, how do you know if you're succeeding at that? And so we have to spend some time figuring out what are we really saying? What are the stakes in the ground? What are the milestones? How do we know if we're successful? Because then you can bring that back to the culture and say, this is what we really mean. This is who we are, no matter what. And this is how we show up for our customers and for one another. And that alignment is really important, too. We can't treat customers one way and treat each other a different way. Yeah. And that's really to their culture point. You're absolutely right.

18:13I mean, a lot of times I used to say years ago that, you know, any way, shape and form in which your business is coming into contact with a customer or prospector, you know, that contact is performing a marketing function. And, you know, a lot of times as organizations grow, the leadership has no contact with the customer anymore. Yeah. It's very true. And yet, you know, those people are probably treating the customers about as well as you're treating them. Right? Yep. Yep. That is definitely something that as people get further up in the org chart, they get further and further away. And to your point, the opposite is true where all of the behavior, you know, rolls down the org chart too.

18:56And so it is really important that people feel, again, that alignment with values. That's just so important in any culture. Yeah. I know in our organization, you know, over the years, I've had people that, you know, a customer, they have a bad experience with a customer and they're kind of bad-mouthing the customer in front of the team. I'm like, we just can't do that ever, you know, ever because it's not, it's not acceptable for them to do. And if we're saying that's the behavior, but that's, you know, as especially in smaller organizations, you know, that, that takes intention, doesn't it? It does for sure.

19:28Tell me a little bit how you, So if I came to you and I said, hey, this customer experience thing sounds awesome. You need to like customer experience us. How would that start? I mean, are we going to map out journey points or touch points or I mean, what's the process look like? Yep. I always think of customer experience work and really setting the foundation for it in any organization as a three-step kind of foundational process. And then we move into we've got all these tools in our toolkit like customer journey mapping. but you know I like to start with the idea that it's a mindset it's a strategy and then it's a discipline within your organization so you kind of have to think about it like any other part of your business you would never say for instance we should really do sales so let's bring in somebody do a workshop and if that doesn't work I guess sales doesn't work right like that would never happen but we do that a lot with customer experience we think it's a magic wand so we like to think about it as to get the mindset right, you need that customer experience mission statement, something centralized within your organization.

20:31So we do workshops and strategy and executive coaching on that. And then we go into strategy, which is really what are you trying to do? And what are the efforts that we're going to put into this to achieve those outcomes? So we define those outcomes and all of those things. That's with something we call a strategy success statement. And then we move into the discipline of it. How are we going to get this done? Who's involved? How do we actually work together cross-functionally? How do we get our leaders involved? And how do we know if we're successful in all of those things? So that's kind of the foundation of it.

21:03And then there are things like, yeah, we want to map out what is the ideal experience? I really believe that innovation is experience-driven right now. You think about the disruptors of the last 20 years, they've all been experience-driven. And so we do something called experiential innovation, where we help people think about how do they disrupt their industry with experience? So there are all these different ways and it's all based on what are you trying to do as an organization and how can we help you be the most successful you can be while at the same time making it a win so your customers, your employees, and all your stakeholders love you.

21:38That's really what we're trying to do. How important, we're going to run out of time here, so I'll wrap up pretty quickly. I'd love to know, so I've got this roadmap. We've identified things, processes, campaigns, whatever that need to be put in place. how important is testing and monitoring and analyzing like this worked this didn't work let's try something i mean how because i'm sure a lot of people are set it and forget it people right it's like this is our process here's our sop go yep yeah it is important and i like to think about it less about testing and more about like pilots because a lot of times you want to kind of test things in a way that you'll know yes or no, right?

22:20And humans just are very unpredictable. And so what I like to do is take a smaller kind of subset and say, okay, let's learn from this pilot because we always get feedback. We always learn something in that, that then you can start applying at scale and see what works and what doesn't. So we do that as well as inviting customers into the process, like making sure that if you're doing customer journey mapping and you never talk to a customer, you are missing a huge opportunity, as well as your frontline workers, your cashiers, your customer service reps, your salespeople. Sometimes they're left out of the process mapping.

22:56And I'm like, no, we need them. So that, you know, we think about it as customer collaboration. You need to have that along the way, every step of the way. Yeah. And even customer or units inside of an organization. I can't tell you how many times I've talked to a leader of marketing and sales and customer service. And they're like, wait, after we get an order, you do that? Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. So it's pretty incredible. It's like, oh, nobody bothered to talk to each other. That's right. That's right. And that's what I love about things like journey mapping and service blueprinting because you get people together and just the act of that can create real change in an organization.

23:35Yeah. Well, Jeannie, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Is there some place you'd invite people to connect to you to learn about your work? Sure. Yes. Please join us at experienceinvestigators.com. We have a ton of stuff there in our learning center. And then you can also find me on LinkedIn and I've got a few LinkedIn learning courses out there too. So I'd love to hear from you. Again, appreciate you taking a few moments and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

24:09We'll see you next time.