Humanizing the Workplace: Building Strong Employee Relationships

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0:57Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is Jon Jantz and my guest today is Joey Coleman. Joey helps companies keep their customers and we're going to talk about employees as well today. He's a Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Never Lose a Customer Again, an award-winning speaker and works with organizations around the world from small startups to major brands. His first 100 days methodology fuels the remarkable experiences his clients deliver and dramatically improves their profits. Today we're going to talk about never lose an employee. Again, the simple path to remarkable retention.

1:34So Joey, welcome back to the show. John, thank you so much for having me back. Big fan of the show. Longtime listener. Excited when I can be a guest. So appreciate that. And thanks to everybody who's listening in as well. Looking forward to dive into the conversation. So I'm tempted to actually suggest that you could have just turned in the same manuscript and changed the title because really employees are probably our first customers, right? John, it's so true. And in fact, this is maybe a reveal that I shouldn't be making publicly, but when I went to put together the first draft, I took the manuscript from my first book.

2:07I did a find and replace for every time I said customer, I changed it to employee. I'm not all the principles and all the concepts align. And to your point, they absolutely did. Now, after that, I erased the case studies from the first book and replaced them with new case studies that were more employee focused. But yes, you're absolutely right. It's the same story in a different direction. So let's start a little bit with the stats, because I know that you're a researcher when you write. Everybody knows this, but let's just make the pain real for them. You know, what's the real cost of turnover, employee turnover?

2:45You know, it's staggering, John, and it really depends on whether you look at the cost of what it takes to rehire someone, the cost of what it takes to get them up to speed, the cost of lost productivity. But when you factor in all the different ways that someone might measure the cost of losing an employee and having to find a new one, all the research combined shows that it's somewhere between 2 and 4x the annual salary of the employee you're trying to replace. So if you're looking for$100 ,000 more senior member of your team, imagine$300 ,000 to$400 ,000 in loss while you're going through that process of the turnover.

3:27It's also important to recognize that for more entry-level members of your team or maybe frontline members of your team, you're not only losing the economic costs, but there you have an even more significant morale cost. when you have four or five salespeople on the team and you lose one of them. The other remaining four turn around and say, well, what did that person know that I don't know? Why are they leaving? What's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Why am I staying here? So there's this whole non-monetary aspect of loss that occurs with employee turnover too. So when people talk about we've gone through this crazy buying and selling homes, it's like a buyer's market, a seller's market.

4:08I mean, we're kind of in an employee's market right now, aren't we? We really are. And, John, I would posit that we're going to be in that market for the foreseeable future. And here's why. There were a lot of tragic and a lot of fascinating and a lot of interesting things that came out of COVID. But I think the biggest thing in the employer context that came out of COVID is employers globally learned that they could have their people work from home because they had to. and employees globally learned that they could work from home because they had to. What this did is it created an environment where maybe 40 years ago, 50 years ago, chances were better than not your employer had their headquarters somewhere within 30 miles of your house.

4:55Now it's the case that if your employer is within 30 miles of your house, I know two things about you. Number one, you probably have a very specific job, i.e. you have a job that requires manual involvement with the responsibilities you have. Or you and your employer have not realized that there are markets beyond 30 miles from here that might be willing to pay you more, do other things with you, give you more opportunities, etc. The last thing I'll say on this is the number of phone calls I have fielded in the last six months from clients saying to me, Joey, our best talent is being poached by companies outside the United States who are hiring employees to get a beachhead or get a footprint in the U.S.

5:43has been staggering. And I think that's only going to increase in the future. So let's talk, you know, a lot of marketers talk about this idea of the customer journey. I talk a lot about the customer journey, and the last year or two years, people have been saying, can you actually change that a little bit to talk about the employee journey? And I think that when I look at it, my customer journey is no like, trust, try, buy, repeat, and refer. And I'm just like, yeah, no like, trust, try, hire, retain, and refer. I mean, it's like, it kind of works. So what I see is a lot of companies freaking out, saying, we've got to find new talent.

6:18We've got to find new talent, right? And it's like marketers. We've got to run an ad. so we can sell more. And really this whole idea of having a great customer or employee experience so that they certainly stay, but also become loyalists to bring in other folks. How have you kind of structured, I know you talk about the journey as well. How have you structured that thinking throughout this book? Yeah, John, I'm a big fan of the duct tape path, if you will, of the customer. And I have a slightly similar, slightly different path that I outlined in my first book about the customer journey, I think of the employee journey as follows.

6:54It's eight key phases, and I'll go through them real quick and give you an overview. The first phase is the assess phase. This is when a prospective employee is deciding whether or not they want to work for you. So they're checking out your job listings. They're on your website. They might be talking to employees that you have to see what it's like to work there. They're going through your interview and hiring process. We then come to the accept phase. The accept phase has two key components. We make an offer of employment and the prospective employee accepts our offer. We then go to the third phase, the affirm phase.

7:28Now, I imagine everyone listening has heard of the phrase buyer's remorse. I've coined a phrase new hire's remorse because every new hire begins to doubt the decision they just made to accept your job offer. And what are we doing to address that? We then come to the activate phase, phase four. This is the first day on the job. What does that first day look like? What are we doing to really energize it to make it a memorable moment in their career journey? We then come to the acclimate phase. The acclimate phase is when this new hire is getting used to your way of doing business. This can last weeks, maybe even months.

8:02As they get up to speed, they learn the job, they figure out your roles, your ways. You're figuring out as the employer about them. We then come to phase six, the accomplish phase. When the employee achieves the goal they had when they originally decided to do business with you. Every employee who accepts a job offer has a vision of what their future at their organization is going to be, whether that's an increase in title, an increase in salary, a promotion, something like that. So what have they accomplished? We then come to phase seven, the adopt phase, where they become loyal to you and only you.

8:33They're committed. They're not going to answer the other recruiter or headhunter calls. And last but not least, the advocate phase, where they become a raving fan for your organization. This includes writing reviews on Glassdoor and sites like that, as well as recruiting people to fill other open positions you have in your organization. So if we do it right, it's very similar to a customer journey going through these various emotional phases of the employee roller coaster. Well, and as in a good customer journey, there are intentional actions taken by the organization to move people through those stages.

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11:17You know, you don't just show up and go, yeah, you know, just follow this person around and, you know, right. So what are some of your kind of fun things we're going to encounter as actual intentional actions? Well, two thoughts to that, John. Number one, you mentioned kind of this first hundred days methodology. All the research shows that the first hundred days of the employee journey are the most important time period in the entire relationship. This is where the foundation is laid. This is where we really get things off to a good start. And what was staggering to me is that on average across all industries, about 40%, 40 to 45 % of new employees quit before the 100-day anniversary.

11:57So stop and think about all this time and effort we made recruiting and interviewing and making an offer and negotiating. Almost half the people are leaving before they've been there three months. This is devastating, not only to businesses operationally, but in terms of emotionally and their morale. So what can we do to make that experience remarkable? Well, to your point, and you hit it right on the head, that day one experience, their first day on the job is really important. What happens in most organizations is that it's an afterthought. Oh, we're not exactly sure when they're showing up.

12:30Oh, we need to do some HR stuff, fill out some paperwork. Oh, you better watch this training video from the 70s about sexual harassment and discrimination. Not to say those aren't important things, but we're opening from a place of negative. We're opening from a place of scarcity as opposed to saying, what would it be like if we thought about what's actually going to happen at the end of the day? At the end of the first day on the job, your new employee is going to get in their vehicle or they're going to get on public transportation or they're going to start walking home. If they have roommates when they get home, whether that's a spouse, children, a significant other, whoever it may be, the first thing that somebody asks when they walk in the door is, how was the first day on the job?

13:13That's going to be the first question because they already know it's the first day on the job. And if they live by themselves, they're probably calling mom and dad or a friend or to tell them about the first day on the job. If nothing else, everybody who's listening, I would ask you this. How is a new employee going to answer that question based on what your typical first day looks like? Are they going to be raving about how welcome they felt? Are they going to be raving about what a great experience they had, the new people they met, the work they got to do? Or are they going to say, well, you know, I actually spent the first half of the day in a boardroom watching old videos and filling out paperwork.

13:47And then I went to lunch with somebody who it seemed like they didn't really even know they were going to take me to lunch. but was excited to be able to put it on the company expense account. Then I came back in the afternoon to find out that I actually don't have a desk with a computer set up because IT wasn't ready. I don't really have my phone. I was supposed to have business cards. They said I'll have those in three weeks. And I basically got told to just look through some of our marketing materials, and I'd meet with my actual manager tomorrow. There's a reason why that hypothetical works.

14:14It's because we've lived it. We've lived it. Yeah. So, so, you know, as I heard you describing that, one of the things I encounter is that the problem with is it's no one's job, right? It's like this person came along and they're actually kind of like a nuisance because I've like already got a full plate. And I think that's really it, isn't it? John, 100%. Two thoughts on that. Number one, in many organizations, there's someone who has the job of recruiting, interviewing, and hiring, making an offer, whether that's a head of HR or a talent development person, et cetera. Then invariably, we have someone who eventually that person is going to report to, a manager, a boss, a director, that kind of thing.

14:59the gap we have is in the middle the gap we have is the handoff from the recruiter to the manager and most managers i read some fascinating research about a week ago most managers the first time they get any type of managerial training happens at the age of 46. now stop and think about how many managers there are under the age of 46 that we have to wait a decade a month you know years to get to any type of training. So I agree with you that if there was one thing that people took away from my book, it would be my hope that they find someone in their organization to be responsible for taking a new employee from the first time they hear about the business until they're up and running a hundred days later.

15:49If there was one person that was responsible for that whole journey, our retention numbers would go through the roof. Yeah. And it's not, it's not a compliance act, is it no exactly no it's an emotional connection how do we create personal relationships with the people that we're bringing into our organization well it's kind of like the restaurant you know when you go in there and somebody's birthday and like they show up and instead of just your server like every all the servers come over and sing happy birthday it's like that's you know making that kind of party is it just has to become part of the culture and so since i used the c word but You know, how do organizations who read this book go, yeah, we're going to retain our people now by changing everything?

16:34Well, the first 100 days were a long time ago. You know, and it's like how do you put more fun in, put the experience in? I mean, how do you do that after the ship's kind of already sailed? Yeah, I think it's never too late to make the experiences you're creating better. And I totally appreciate and empathize with the fact, John, that many of the people that might be thinking, oh, this is something we need to pay attention to already have team members that are well past the 100 days. So what can you do? I think you can do a couple of things. Number one, I think you can acknowledge the positive and the negative aspects of your existing culture.

17:10What's great about your culture? What does everybody know needs improvement? There isn't an organization on the planet that couldn't enhance their culture, couldn't improve it in some way. So I think there's always possibilities to do that. Number two, how can we connect with our people on a more personal and emotional level? If there was one question that I would hope people would ponder, it's this. What would it take for us to care as much about what happens between 5 p.m. and 9 a.m. As we do about what happens between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m.? Yeah. What's going on in your employees' lives after they leave the office, after they log off?

17:53Let me push back just a little bit. I 100 % agree with you, but I can also hear some listeners out there going, well, that's none of my business. You know, I don't want them to, you know, care about this when they go home. Totally. Well, here's the thing, John, if I may, the phrase you used is, well, that's none of my business. I get it. But it is their business. And it is their life. And that's the point I'm trying to make. When we recognize that we have human beings that work for us, who have lives outside of the office, outside of the work they do for us, we're better able to show up with empathy.

18:28We're better able to show up emotionally to connect to them. Now, I'm not saying that you want to say to all of your employees, hey, make sure you send me an email and tell me everything you're going to do tonight between 10 p.m. and midnight. No, that is not at all what I'm talking about. But what I am talking about is the opportunity that so many employers miss to recognize that we expect the very best version of our employees during the workday without taking into any consideration what's going on outside of the workday for them. Do they have a child that's sick? Are they struggling with child care?

19:01Do they have a parent that's aging that they're trying to navigate? Do they have something going on in their personal life? I'm not saying you want to pry into those things, but you do want to create the space in your culture for those type of conversations to happen. And there's a whole aspect of the book where we talk about, you know, how do we recognize milestones like births, marriages, deaths, divorces, all the things that are going on in our employees' personal lives that very well we know impact their professional lives. But if we pretend like they're not happening, that doesn't build any type of rapport with our team.

19:35Well, and I think, you know, some would suggest that work for many is just a, you know, means to an end, right? And that, you know, if we can activate the other things they're passionate about, then the work becomes more important to achieving what they're trying to achieve. 100%. And I think you and I, John, have both been around the block enough to know that if you've got employees where work is a means to an end, the work isn't going to be that great. Yeah. It just is. And that's not a criticism against somebody who is like, hey, I'm just there to earn my paycheck. But you're not going to be attracting the kind of talent and producing the kind of results than if you had an employee who was bought into your mission, bought into your vision, bought into your culture and what you're trying to accomplish.

20:19So the term employer branding is kind of bantered around quite a bit in marketing circles these days with the idea of not only creating this great culture, this great place to work, but that becomes a huge aspect of your messaging, of your positioning that, you know, who wouldn't want to buy from a company that was a great place to work, right? Exactly. But obviously people can pay lip service to stuff like that too. So how do you take that you've got this great culture, that you've built this great experience, and make sure that people who are your customers are experiencing that? You know, it's interesting, John.

20:55One of my favorite things to do when I'm trying to evaluate what a company is going to be like to do business with or maybe to work at or anything like that is I go to the About Us page on their website. And I know you do a lot of research around websites, and I'm sure you're familiar with the same stats I am, that the About Us page, as a general rule, is the most visited page of any organization's website. It's usually number two, right, on their site. But it's in the top two. Sometimes some organizations it's number one. It's always in the top two. What I always like to do, John, is when I go to the About Us page for a company, can I see a photograph of every employee they have?

21:34Can I see a bio and a description? on every employee, not only what they do for their work, but what their interests are, their passions. Do they have a pet? Where do they live? Those types of things. To me, that's how you take aspects of the uniqueness of your organization, your people, and showcase it to the world. Now, because I can also imagine the pushback of some employees saying, well, I don't want my dog's name on the website. Have you ever met a dog owner? Most dog owners want to talk about their dog all day long. Yeah. Most of them will be pictured with their dog. Exactly. And we'll love to do that.

22:09And if you've got somebody who doesn't want their picture on the website, that's fine. Maybe we can do a caricature. Maybe we can include the logo. Maybe we can at least include two or three things, their favorite book, their favorite movie, something that lets the outside world know we have humans that work at our company and we celebrate them for their humanity, not their productivity. yeah so Joey we've run out of time I appreciate you coming by the duct tape marketing podcast I you know listeners out there if you have anything to do with having speakers come talk about this topic Joey on top of writing incredible books is an amazing entertaining and you know wonderful speaker as well so you know keep that in mind Joey where would you invite people to I know the book will be available everywhere but to connect with you oh John thanks so much first of all for those kind words about the speaking.

22:59I appreciate it. I do love it. The best place to find information about this, the book is called Never Lose an Employee Again. As you mentioned, it's available wherever books are sold, both as a hardcover, an ebook, and an audiobook that I narrate. So whatever version you like to consume content, it's available. Best place to find me is at my website, joeycoleman.com. That's J-O-E-Y, like a baby kangaroo or a five-year-old, you know. Coleman, C-O-L-E-M-A-N, like the camping equipment, but no relation, joeycoleman.com. You'll find information about the book. You'll find extra resources. One cool thing we did for the book, John, is there's an opportunity to access the vault.

23:36And in the vault are videos and templates and all kinds of information to help people take the ideas and the tactics and the techniques in the book and actually apply them as part of their business. And you can access that all at the website, JoeyColeman.com. Well, Joey, again, thanks for taking a few moments to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Hopefully, we'll see you soon one of these days out there on the road. That sounds good. Thanks, John. Appreciate it. And thanks to everybody for listening in. Hey, and one final thing before you go, you know how I talk about marketing strategy, strategy before tactics.

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