Run Highly-Effective Teams By Creating Principle-Based Habits

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1:01Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is Jon Jantz. My guest today is Corey Kogan. She's Franklin Covey's Vice President of Content Development and a Senior Leadership Consultant. With over 25 years of business expertise from the front line to the executive team, she understands the application of Franklin Covey's world-renowned content within organizations, including the strategy and principles necessary to build great leaders, systems, and winning culture. So we're going to talk a little bit about, this is almost a revisit. We're going to talk a little bit about The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, a book that was out, actually came out last century, has sold millions and millions and millions of copies and certainly is as, rings as true today as probably ever.

1:50So Corey, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you so much for having me, John. It's a pleasure. So you continue to evolve and create content around the whole seven habits concept. But give me a little bit of what's your history with Franklin Covey with maybe with the seven habits kind of library. Well, I will take you back just a skosh before that. You know, I've been with Franklin Covey for 18 years. So I had the pleasure and honor of knowing Stephen before he passed away in 2012. But prior to that, I was the vice president of worldwide operations for a global franchise company. And so myself and the CEO ensured that we had a seven habits culture.

2:38I was a franchise organization and around the world, a seven habits culture. And so my familiarity started there. And it was only sort of by accident, but not really, that I ended up at FranklinCovey. And so as a consultant first, and then as part of the practices around productivity and leadership. So my familiarity with Seven Habits goes way back to implementation within small businesses, and then bringing that practical business experience with me to FranklinCovey to blend it with things like the Seven Habits. to really help organizations across sectors move forward. So that's a little bit about my journey.

3:24So whenever an author or we're talking about a book that's like 200 ways to do X or seven habits or whatever, you know, whatever the number might be, I always like to tease people and say, do you have a favorite? Do you have a favorite of the habits? Yes, I do. Habit one. Habit one, be proactive, which is the habit of choice. And I'll tell you again, very practical, very pragmatic. I'm an operations executive. You know, Stephen talks about being proactive, not reactive. So as a leader in particular, or as an individual contributor, being reactive to everything, you know, makes you come off as victimized and, you know, just, you know, not as somebody who makes things happen.

4:10And Stephen talks about the space between stimulus and response. And that's why it's my favorite, because if I'm good at, OK, something's triggering me before I hit the send button, can I count to 10 and think about what outcome I really want? that and it's my whole career has been like that. That to me, that's being proactive. And it saved me both personally and professionally many, many times. So Happy One is very foundational. And truly, for me, it is totally my favorite one. Well, I recall in interviewing both Stephen and his son, Stephen H.M., is that right? Stephen H.R.? Oh, H.R., sorry.

4:53I'm sorry, Stephen M.R. Covey. Stephen M.R., but we both are messy. it up. Stephen Emmer, I remember some reference to Viktor Frankl in his work, actually, in that particular habit. Yeah. And again, just, you know, we say you have the power to choose your response. And again, Viktor Frankl was a terrible experience. And just we learned a lot from how he handled the circumstances he was, you know, he was in. So you choose, you know, you get very self-aware that, You know, we call it emotional intelligence in this day and age, self-awareness. Get very self-aware to just before you, you know, whatever circumstance you're in, how can I think about how to deal with it in a way that I can live through it?

5:40So between stimulus and response, there's a moment. And in that moment lies our freedom. There you go. I think is the actual quote. Um, would you say because of your familiarity, sort of a long familiarity with the work, um, have, has the world changed in a way that has changed any of those habits? Have any of those habits become more relevant? Um, just kind of talk to me a little bit about the evolution, I guess, of over 35 years. Yeah. So, you know, the thing about the seven habits is that it is principle based. And I was just rereading this morning, Dr. Covey's, when he was asked these questions, I was reading a transcript of an interview.

6:20And he was so clear before he passed away in 2012. And we feel the same today. So even we just spent millions of dollars in relaunching and contemporizing the workshop, the course around the seven habits. And the habits didn't change. The principles didn't change. Just how we applied them in a contemporary way that, you know, people really can consume and remember and do something with. So it's how you point these principles and habits. And as Stephen would say, as the more turbulent, the more challenging the world gets, the more important these habits and principles are. And that's that's a true statement.

7:08So I'm going to, you didn't ask me to, but I'm going to tell you my favorite. And that is seek first to understand than to be understood. I think that a lot of miscommunication and it, you know, I asked the question about has the world evolved or changed? I feel like I feel like we're in this moment where that habit is probably more important than I can ever remember it being. You know, I really appreciate that. And I didn't want to interrupt you before. So I didn't ask you that question when, and I've taught this hundreds of thousands of times, I think, and keynoting it now and speaking to groups as we're relaunching.

7:46And since the pandemic, I'm with you, John, because with the remote hybrid, the state of the world, there's a lot of pain going on. and whether a personal or professional, if you are not listening empathically to others, seeking first to understand and putting yourself in others' shoes and sort of not absorbing, but acknowledging the pain they might be in or the excitement that they're in and really understanding them without trying to fix things and do the whole autobiographical listening thing, everything, giving them space and empathy to really feel safe, to be able to have a conversation and move to action.

8:32So I'm with you. It has become critical that whether you're in a family, in a small business or a big business, that you are listening to each other deeply. I remember a story from the book that really, I remember drove that point home so much that we have absolutely no, especially a stranger, We have absolutely no idea what's going on in their life. Right. And there was a story about a man on a bus and he had, I don't know if you recall it, but there were children just that were being unruly and he wasn't paying attention to them at all. And, and everybody thought how rude that was and he should take, you know, those children take care of him.

9:06Well, it turns out the story is his wife has just passed and, you know, nobody, you know, you have no idea what is going on in somebody's life. And I think that probably that story and that lesson really probably or that principle really probably impacted me at a really early time in my career, probably more than anything. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a classic story around a paradigm. And Stephen says, I was like, why doesn't he get a hold of his kids? You know, whatever. And so we had a paradigm shift. And that is really the basis of the seven habits is how do we help people become very, very aware that the way we think about things may not be exactly that and how we behave and show up in the world.

9:51Maybe if we were open to examining our paradigms, we could make good changes that make us more effective. And don't go down those kinds of rabbit holes like Stephen did with making that kind of assumption. AI might be the most important new computer technology ever. It's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are being invested. So buckle up. The problem is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power. So how do you compete without cost spiraling out of control? It's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, or OCI. OCI is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs.

10:34OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds, offers one consistent price instead of a variable regional pricing, and of course, nobody does data better than Oracle. So now you can train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half of the cost of other clouds. If you want to do more and spend less like Uber 8x8 and Databricks Mosaic, take a free test drive at OCI at Oracle.com slash duct tape. That's Oracle.com slash duct tape. Oracle.com slash duct tape. So this book was probably the first place I was introduced. I mean, the whole four quadrant thing has been around since consulting was invented, right?

11:18But it was the first place where I really saw a clear picture of the idea of, you know, the stuff that's nagging you, but it's not important. And, you know, the important stuff that is, you know, also needs to be done, right? Or is the most impactful. That idea of, I don't think he called it time management necessarily, but it was really more along the lines of if you just stay focused on the important stuff that's actually going to be high payoff, then that's probably all you need to focus on. Yeah. So that's habit three, first things first. And that became so popular and important. He sort of blew that up into a bigger book.

11:59And first it was achieving focus, achieving highest priorities. Now we have the five choices, the path to extraordinary productivity. And the time matrix is a core part of that because, and he did call it time management. It's a time matrix where you really have a process by which you can synthesize. Let me get really clear on what's most important. And then how do I make sure that I'm mitigating or eliminating the things that may be less or not important? So your brain needs a process. And so the time matrix is really helpful to that. Well, and we work with a lot of entrepreneurs, some of our solopreneurs and, you know, what gets in the way with them so often is, you know, they, there, there's things that they're doing that they shouldn't be doing at all.

12:46But then there's certainly things that somebody else, bookkeeping is one of my great examples, you know, get that off your plate, delegate that. There's lots of people who actually enjoy doing that. And I think that once people get to the point where they're like, yeah, I shouldn't be doing this. That's not important. delegate this because frankly, I don't like doing it anyway. Then all of a sudden you're like, okay, maybe I do have the time for the important stuff. I'm sorry. I was just going to say it's hard for people though, because we're just so focused on like, oh no, this thing is yelling in my ear, so I better do it.

13:18Yeah. And I like to call it from the neuroscience world, labeling and reappraising. If I just write down, take the time to really write down what's important, Because I'll tell you, even and working in my past in the franchise business and helping support small businesses, we found that some of the entrepreneurs would do bookkeeping or go sweep the floor because they didn't want to go out and sell. So they sort of knew, right? So there's a whole psychology, you know, around some of that. And when you have a framework and you have a process like, and again, that's what effectiveness is all about.

13:52What are the tools that can support how I can get really clear on what's important and come to terms with those things that maybe I shouldn't be doing? Because if I don't do that, I'm not going to achieve my end in mind of a successful business. How have you seen leaders? Because sometimes when you read some of these kind of bigger principles, they feel very much like leadership training and leadership skills. Right. But, you know, in an effective organization, we have to also drive those down throughout, you know, whatever ranks. So how have you found leaders have been effective at not just embracing this, but, you know, not because there is there is kind of a danger of buying courses and buying, you know, it's like, here, go to this stuff.

14:35Right. But, you know, how do you actually make how have you seen organizations make seven habits almost a culture? It's a very good question because it's not easy. I mean, it's a very real question you're asking. We've had clients that I can't name here, but that have been with us for 25 years as seven habits companies. And we were in my prior organization as well. And we made it part of part of the culture. What we know, you know, I'll tell you what my executive chairman used to say, you know, Corey, if you want to win a championship game, you can't just read a book. Even if it's the seven habits, you can't just read a book or watch a video.

15:16You need to. He said, if you want to win the game, I'm not going to say to you, Corey, go watch a video on how to throw the ball and show up on Saturday to play the big game. Right. And so our whole philosophy is around that. And with the seven habits, it's a surround sound. It's how do we, and, you know, Stephen, Stephen, you know, created the maturity continuum to give you an accessible, memorable framework and the see, do, get model around behavior change. And beyond that, it's how do we consume or digest these principles and the pragmatic practices that go along with it and really encourage people to practice it and speak the language over time?

16:03And so what's the sustained learning to really turn it into a culture? And I think that small wins along the way really helped that. So our organizations, really, they have posters up, they're speaking the language, they're behaving what they're learning. And small fires with groups of people start to people look in and go, hey, wait, what are they doing? Because it looks like they're doing great. I want some of that. So, you know, it takes work, but it's certainly doable. We've had some great organizations that really everybody speaks the language of the seven habits. So to me, over the last 20 years, one of the most gratifying things to see is, you know, a lot of the things that were talked about in this book, time management, better leadership skills, better communication skills, you know, are all things seen as kind of hard skills for leaders to learn.

16:51This book was really one of the first that, you know, the seventh habit sharpened the saw that, you know, mind, body, spirit, maybe are all a part of this in terms of you being effective. And one of the most gratifying things I've seen is the last over the last 20 years, that's become a very mainstream thought as well, hasn't it? Well-being, right? So well-being more than ever as people are working harder than ever and all of that. So we still, even in our new program, it is, you have to sharpen the saw. And Stephen always said it, again, even reading this morning, he said, the more high tech, the more high touch.

17:26And I do a lot of work around the implementation of AI and human capability and hybrid intelligence and all that. And I read that and I thought, you know, he was so before his time on it. Well-being is key. Sharpen the saw. He said you can't do the first six habits without sharp. Because I find it incredibly difficult to pause and just be the kind of person I should be, whether it's at home or at work. And so, but it is, it is right at the top. The new, the younger generations will not work in organizations that do not have substantial, you know, things around how are you going to help me with my wellbeing?

18:13Seven habits or no seven habits. It's a mandate. Yeah. And I think that that was brought into sharp focus, I think, after the pandemic, you know, the whole quiet quitting thing that people talked about, a lot of it was like, I'm not getting charged, recharged here. I think I've made a decision to leave. So I think that that habit is one that a lot more companies are at least coming to terms with. Absolutely. And all kinds of quiet quitting, resignation, all of those things. And even with the economy changing and companies doing some layoffs and all of that, the younger generations are not going back.

18:53I mean, it is really significant for them to have a sense that an organization will care about their well-being. And I know there's organizations today out there that are like, no, you need to work 24 hours a day or you can't work here. And people will make their choices. But principally, people, humans have to sharpen the saw. And that's why that's a timeless principle at a very timely point in the world right now. Yeah. And it's funny. that's one that people say, oh, I don't really have time to take to do that. Well, you know, I think science proves it, but anecdotally, I can tell you if I exercise, I do better work, right?

19:32And so, you know, I take the hour to do that. I'm going to be way more productive the next three, four hours, you know, doing the work. So while it may seem counterintuitive, it's certainly, you know, science backs it, you know, as a way to actually be more productive. Yeah. And in the new course, we even have in there just a little research on, you know, the detriment of back to back Zoom meetings or Teams meetings, whatever, you know, you're on and the stress levels by not taking breaks. So, I mean, it's just it's really critical. And whether it's leaders or personally, we go we can't see it.

20:11You know, it's like Stephen, if you remember the famous line, he said, are you too busy driving your car to stop to get gas? You know, it's the same thing here. We're so into our overwhelm. We can't see it. And unfortunately, we know that over statistically, we know that over half of people will not do something about burnout until they are burnt out. Yeah. Which is terrible. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's like boiling the frog. Exactly. You don't you don't realize it because it just happens gradually and then it happens all at once. Right. So very timeless principle. So, Corey, I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast.

20:53Is there somewhere you'd invite people to tell us a little bit about how somebody can consume the course or where they might find out more? Sure. Very simply, just go to www.franklincovey.com. And on the homepage, you'll probably see a lot about our launch, if not just Search 7 Habits. But it should come right up for you, right in the middle of a big launch world tour right now. So thanks, John, for asking. Awesome. All right. Well, again, I appreciate you stopping by the podcast and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.