The Power of Connection To Create Memorable Pitches

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0:52Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantz and my guest today is Diana Kander. She's a keynote speaker on curiosity and innovation and a New York Times bestselling author. She's a serial entrepreneur who's entered the United States as a refugee at the age of eight, and she has launched and sold millions of dollars of products and services. Today, we're going to talk about a book she co-authored called Go Big or Go Home, five ways to create a customer experience that will close the deal. So Diana, welcome back to the show. is at least your second, maybe your third time.

1:30John, thank you so much. I hope this isn't too forward, John, but I was so excited to be on this show. I created a jingle for you. You've been in business for so long, and I feel like it might be the only thing missing. So can I share it with you? You're going to, no matter what I say anyway. I'm ready. All right, here we go. Okay.

1:55Duct tape. Woo! We'll make your brand shine like new with duct tape. Woo! We'll make your brand stick like glue with duct tape. Woo! Our marketing is tried and true with duct tape. Woo! Did that sound good on your end? That sounded amazing on my end. It was a little muffled in my headphones. I want to know how you did it. It's to the theme of duck tales, of course. Oh, well, I'm sorry. I'm too old for that. Oh, no. I think my kids are too old for that is what I really mean. So I wasn't familiar with that. Okay, sorry. Very popular cartoon in the 90s when I was growing up. And I just thought, what a perfect match.

2:42Well, I certainly appreciate all of the effort that went into that. I bet you didn't even have to use ChatGPT to write that, did you? ChatGPT was kind of helpful. I'll be honest. I'll be honest. Yeah, I believe it. So that was like you're going big, wasn't it? At the very beginning, John, I want to show you that this interview is going to be different. People are going to get a lot more than they're used to out of it. So as I said, you've been on several times. This is kind of a, this is a, I don't know, is this a different tack? Would you describe this book as being very different from your books on, say, Curiosity?

3:21I mean, obviously you're talking about pitching things and you have some, I was going to call them crazy ideas. That's not what I really meant, but outrageous in a good way ideas. So I guess the first logical question is, what kind of led you to this idea right now? I didn't want to do this book. Actually, my co-author, Tucker Trotter, called me. We had a mutual connection and he was like, hey, I want to write a book about my company, Dimensional Innovations. They create experiences for sports stadiums, universities, and I was like, good for you. You know, you enjoy that. I am so not interested.

4:00I did the call on my treadmill, walking my dog, like just could not have shown less interest, you know? And he said, hey, will you come take a tour? Like, I get it. You don't want to do the book. And I said, fine. And so I went and took a tour of their 200 ,000 square foot facility, which is like so impressive. And then during the tour, he tells me that they have this move to close big deals, this move where their usual close rates, like 45%, when they do the move, they close 90 % of these huge hard to win deals. Right. And that got me really interested. Well, you at least had to know what the move was, right?

4:38That's right. And so I talked to a couple more people and then I talked to some of their clients and then I became obsessed with it. And I was like, well, other people must be doing this. And why does this work? What is the science behind it? So by the end of it, I was begging him to co-author this book. I just had to tell other people about how this works. So I had to tell this story. It's a slight departure from the innovation work. Although I do think it's a way to innovate how you sell your products and services. Yeah, sure. Completely. And quite frankly, there's a huge element of curiosity, I think, to the framework.

5:10So it works for me. So in the subtitle, five ways to create a customer experience that will close more deals. You want to kind of dive into a couple of the elements. People need to buy the book. if they want them all, but. For your TV viewers, the five elements spell out the word magic. And we're basically creating magic inside of our presentations. We don't want them to be instantly forgotten as soon as we walk out the door, which is literally what happens. And so there are five things you can do to help increase how memorable your presentation is and how actionable it is. Do you want me to tell you what they are?

5:46Yeah, I mean, let's start with surprise. That's the best one. You got to do things that they don't expect, John. And do you see my mug? Yeah, of course I did. For the audio listeners, you got to tell them what's happening. So she just took a drink of, I'm guessing it's tequila, but who knows? But it was in a mug that had the duct tape marketing logo on it that I did not supply to her. A brand new marketing, duct tape marketing logo. Congratulations on that. I love it. Yeah, I think you need more swag with the new stuff on it with a new logo on it. We do. My wife won't let me get any more though.

6:32So surprise is all about doing something that is unexpected. Our brains love to be on autopilot, even when we're being pitched. And they're basically saying like, do I know what's happening next? And when somebody's presenting, usually it follows a very similar pattern. So when you add an element of surprise, people are like, okay, I have to pay attention because maybe there are other fun surprises happening.

6:58And it's a bit of a dis, I mean, an interruption too, right? I mean, just like you said, a lot of times we lull people to sleep with what they, because they have an expectation. Okay, this comes now, this is going to come now. And it's like, whoa, I didn't see that coming. And I think, as you said, it kind of snaps somebody back into attention, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, if you think about what your body does in a surprising moment, you open your hands and open your eyes and open your ears. Like you're just taking in as much information as possible. And when we're pitching our idea, that's what they're taking in all the way, as opposed to putting their guard up and kind of taking a, you know, step back approach.

7:37Do you want to give an example from the book? Of creating? Yeah. Of a surprise that worked? No, I want to keep doing surprises on here, John. I know that you're a woodworker. And so I created this duct tape marketing apron that you can use in your shop. Do you love it? How great does this look? I do love it. I do love it. I'm going to be sending it to you after the show. I was going to say, you have no use for any of this. I'm going to load you up on duct tape swag after this. I do wear an apron when I do my woodworking. Now you have an extra one. Now I have an extra one. So that leads me actually, unless you want to go more surprise on surprise, but like, what else do you have back there?

8:20Yeah, exactly. You're going to just like one at a time. Let's see the whole show. All right. So, so years ago in duct tape marketing, and I used to do this in my practice, I wrote about something I call lumpy mail, where instead of sending somebody a letter, we'd send them a box of Cheerios or something with, you know, a message that was tied to what we were trying to pitch. And you talk a lot in this book about physical objects, and I've seen it work, but tell me about how it goes into your Go Big framework. Well, there's just a fascinating science to why physical objects work, but basically they are like a faster pathway to our memory banks.

8:59The same things that process visual information are in the same part of our brain that process emotions, which is how we make decisions. And so if we just hear something or read something, it doesn't have as much of a memorable impact as if we see a physical 3D object. And this has made such an impression on me, John, that I do not enter any meeting without a 3D object of some sort. Even if we're on a Zoom call right now, like having a mug with their logo or something that shows that you have taken this invisible idea, which is a lot of our products and services are invisible ideas, and you've taken it into the tactile world, it just makes such a huge impact.

9:43Don't you also find that it sends a little messages, hey, this is an important thing to me. I took some time to actually do something that not everybody else does. I mean, in the world of just mass LinkedIn connections and mass emails, I mean, just showing that you took actually a little extra time, doesn't that, you know, doesn't that actually, isn't that part of the power of it? I think that's at the heart of the go big or go home method. It's showing your soul to people. It's showing who you are as a person and that you care about them. Can I tell you that for the last two days, I've been walking around my house, like singing duct tape.

10:19Woo. Like I've been thinking about this. I've been thinking about you and how excited I am to share this thing with you. And I think it shows you how much I care and how much time I took for this. It's not just another thing for me. That's right. That's right. So can I see your shelf of all the other mugs? All the other mugs. I might get jealous then, though, right? It's in a different room. The theme song is brand new. I've never done that. And I have certainly never created a woodworking apron for anybody else. And now let's hear a word from our sponsor. You know, companies are under pressure right now.

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12:25Look, why create the wheel? Use a set of tools that took us over 20 years to create, and you can have them today. Check it out at dtm.world slash certification. certification that's dtm.world slash certification in some of the materials you sent me about the book you were very adamant about something that people should stop doing when it comes to pitching i'm trying to know what it is so one of the five tools is to give the pitch in the right order and unfortunately the vast majority of us are doing it in in the wrong order this is how a pitch usually goes it's like hey let me tell you a little bit about myself that's number one number two, let me tell you a little bit about my company.

13:08And then number three, I'll tell you why you should buy from us. And that makes sense, right? At a rational level, we want them to understand us so that they understand who they're buying from. But the thing that we learned is that people don't care about you at all until they know that you get them, right? So that's backwards. We have to start with, hey, I get you. And then once I establish that foundation, then I'll tell you about myself. Then people want to know who they're buying from or who they're taking information from. But until I establish that level of I get you and you want to be here, the rest of it doesn't matter.

13:51You know, that's really interesting because so many of these principles really apply to everything we're doing in marketing. I mean, I, for years have been talking about websites, you know, you go there and the first thing it says is here's who's we, here's who we are, here's what we do. And, you know, I tell people all the time, nobody wants, you know, what we sell, they want the problem solved. So like promise to solve my biggest problem, which does show that you got me, but it's also going to get my attention. It's like, because I think a lot of times people don't even know what their problem is.

14:19They just know something's wrong. And it's like, you've put your finger on it for them. And it's like, yeah, now I want to know the rest, but everybody does do that in reverse. So you're talking about a, probably a physical pitch, but I think it's really, that, that runs true probably for almost every kind of contact or engagement we would have, isn't it? Anything. I mean, even these calls, you know, you would usually start with people like saying like, tell me a little bit about yourself. And people are like, well, of course, I would love to tell you about myself. But I start these interviews by saying, let me tell you something about yourself first and maybe your audience.

14:52And then once we establish that foundation, then I'll share a little bit about me. Yeah, because the truth is, I really only care about myself. I'm asking you the question because, you know, I'm supposed to, right? There's a science to it, John. Our brain actually releases dopamine every time we talk about ourselves in the same way that it does when we have sugar or sex, like it's a powerful drug. And that's why when you start talking about yourself, you can't seem to stop because it just feel so good. So if you do an interview or a pitch, and you feel real good afterwards, that's the dopamine high.

15:26And that is a false sense of confidence that you have afterwards, you should feel like kind of okay, because you let the other person do a lot of the talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. And that's such an easy thing, quite frankly, I mean, we're wired as humans to maybe not think that way. But I think if you just like put a big sticky note there and just you know really started that way i think people would find that it would change everything about the conversations they're having in general wouldn't it i mean that that would go for wouldn't that go for networking i mean frankly anything and i will tell you we have a tool in the book which is kind of a map for you to think about your presentation i do my podcast interviews on it too and it's basically what am i going to do at the beginning to get their attention and make it about them then where am i going to insert points of magic throughout the conversation and then what is the big finish of how I'm going to end.

16:16Yeah. I think you ought to finish with the standup comedy act that you just did. Speaking of dopamine. Yes, that was, I just did a standup. I've been wanting to do it since I was 17 years old. I am much older than 17 now. I've been waiting 25 years for this and a friend of mine created a safe space for it. It was a sold out room of 260 women. And I finally felt like I could do my six minutes. Was there wine involved too? I mean, there was a lot of wine for the audience. I think that's very key for the comics. And poor Jason. That's all I'm saying. What a sport. Now that's like the easiest subject in the world for a comedian, isn't it?

17:00Spouses. Yeah. I have a lot of spousal content that didn't make that show. So you'll be happy to know there's enough for like a whole second act. All right. So you outlined some memorable pitches as we call them in the book. And do you have a favorite memorable pitch, child? It's hard to pick. I'll tell you my co-author's favorite pitch. So in the story, which is Napide, which is the company that makes work trucks. and they've created, they've turned their sales process into a just magical experience that almost feels like Disney World for people who are buying work trucks. And all throughout, there's these moments where it helps their customers connect with them on a completely different human soul level.

17:50That's really where we got that idea. Like it helps these moments, magic moments that we try to help you create, help people connect with you on this much, much deeper level than a typical transaction. And so, you know, they've engineered a process that really works. My favorite pitch in the book is that of Sarah who used it to get a job. So we talked about how this works in a lot of different applications, but I do think it can help people get jobs. I've now helped five people. It's like my side hobby, get jobs using the go bigger go home method you're a job maker yes matchmaker right but like a lot of people that i've talked to you know they'll get to the final three and then they just don't get any further and they don't know why right and unfortunately it's because you didn't create that moment of connection or memorable and this can help you do it and so sarah's story is she had this job she hated she was making fifty thousand dollars a year she did a go big or go home pitch and at the end of it, she got an email that said, is a hundred thousand enough, which is like, what a great offer.

18:56You know, that's so funny. So, so is there a risk of going too big? I mean, to where you, I mean, you just people like that was weird. I mean, there's sort of this, like be memorable and this like be weird, right? Level isn't there? Yes. I mean, like if I had a brand new Mercedes pull up in your driveway this morning. And I was like, Hey, John, really looking forward to the podcast. Like, yes, there are of course lines. I don't get it. Where's, where's that over the top? And you have to, it has to be reflective of you. Like that's the whole thing. It's you're showing your authentic personality.

19:36So if you start creating jingles, like I do, it might not work as well because you're not as excited about it as I am. So I just think it's about every person and finding their heart and being able to display it in a physical way to their audience. Yeah.

19:55So how do you pinpoint, like publishers want to know who's this book for, right? Like, and they want it to be broad, but they also want it to be obvious. And I think that this book, as we've talked about it, I mean, this is personal brand. I mean, this is down to like, I just want to have more friends, you know, on most level, right? All the way up to CEO of major companies thinking we have to rethink our entire engagement process. So how do you work with the fact that, I mean, how do you help somebody know this book's for you? That's my real question. So our very simple initial premise is this book is for B2B companies that are selling and it can double their close rate.

20:33That's what we've seen it do because they're turning their sales process into a sales experience. And yes, there are other people who can benefit from it. my side hobby of helping people get jobs with it. Yes, of course, nonprofits have used it to raise money. But I think at the core, it's helping businesses that are in a market where they have to compete and they don't want to compete on price. This is an exceptional way to compete on sole. And here's the good news. Correct me if I'm wrong. The title of this could be, just go a little bigger. I mean, because the bar is pretty low, isn't it? Yeah.

21:14So it's about thinking about every step of your customer interactions and thinking, where can I add a little bit of magic to this? So you can even, the smallest step you could go is your signature line. Like why use a traditional signature line and not one that reflects a movie that you love or something about your personality that just really allows you to shine through. Do you see how silly it is to... Yeah, Ferris Bueller's Day Off. So many lines in that movie that reflect me. So I'm going to start doing that now. Which of the, each of these moments, John, helps us connect. That's the whole thing.

21:49It's about like when we're trying to pitch a business deal, people are like, you're not human. I don't care about your thing. And then as soon as we can break through and allow them to see us as a human being, then they can't help but connect with us. And then we got them. So I have, I've spoken at events where the, you know, they want to do a goofy thing, like, tell us your favorite movie. So we'll announce that when we're introducing you. And it is funny how people will come up afterwards. And it's like, I just talked for 45 minutes. I told you some brilliant things. The only thing they remember is that I like Ferris Bueller's Dale, because I do think you're right.

22:21We're looking for our tribe. And it's like, oh, if you like that movie that says everything I need to know about you. So that connection, you know, part is so big. And it is, you know, you talk about memorable being memorable. And And I think most of the game is cutting through. You talk about those people that maybe a thousand people do send in resumes for a job. How do you cut through that? That's right. So absolutely. So Diana, it was as always, I got more than I expected having you on the show. Tell people or invite people where you'd like them to connect with you. I know the book's available anywhere.

22:54John, I didn't just bring presents for you. I brought presents for your listeners. They would be not fair for me to do that. So the book is available on Amazon. on, you can find it there. But if you want to get a digital copy, I'm happy to just send you one for free. All you have to do is send me an email, tell me why you want one. My email address is diana at dianacandor.com. And I want to share this idea with the world. So if you don't want to buy it, I'm happy to send it to you. Okay. And we will also put that generous offer and link in the show notes. So go out and get it and be more memorable.

23:26How's that? Go big, go home. Do you want me to send us off, John? Yeah. I don't know if I should stop the recording now or. Just one last one.

23:40Duct tape. It's catchy. Get up and dance. Come on. Make your brand stick like glue with duct tape. Our marketing is tried and true with duct tape. I'm going to lose so many sponsors over this.

24:04Why? No, because I'm giving you trouble. It's amazing. This is probably the best show I've ever done. And, you know, people are going to enjoy the heck out of it. And it's always great to catch up with you. And hopefully we'll run into you again one of these days in person out there on the road or in Kansas City or wherever we bump into it, John. Thank you so much, John. Hey, and one final thing before you go. You know how I talk about marketing strategy, strategy before tactics. Well, sometimes it can be hard to understand where you stand in that. What needs to be done with regard to creating a marketing strategy?