Why Marketing Agencies Must Shift From Deliverables to Strategy

0:00John Jantsch:So 9 out of 10 clients say their agency makes them more likely to succeed. I guess that's the good news, right? 4 out of those 10 are also planning to cut back on their relationship within a year. Hey, I want to say a quick word about something we run here at Duct Tape Marketing. If you're a fractionalist CMO, a consultant, or an agency owner, you've got the expertise. What's hard is turning what you know into a practice that pays you like clockwork. That's what our Certified Duct Tape Advisor Program does. Over 90 days, you'll work one-on-one with a coach to build a strategy-first engagement, a product, literally, that you can sell, a repeatable way to deliver it, and a path to ongoing fractional CMO work.

0:43John Jantsch:You earn the credential and a license to run our system under your own brand. And here's my favorite part, our first client promise. Do the work, finish the program, and if you haven't landed your first client in 90 days, we keep going with you until you do. Go to dtm.world slash certification and book a 90-day roadmap session. That's dtm.world slash certification.

1:19John Jantsch:Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jance. My guest today is Brian Gertzner. He's the co-founder of AgencyCore, an organization that does independent research study. They surveyed over 579 agency leaders and 400 of their own clients in 2026. He is also the president of White Label IQ, a 90-person team that works exclusively with agencies, spent more than 20 years in the business. We're going to talk about that research. So, Brian, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure. How are you, John? Awesome. So, you know, there's a lot of organizations out there.

1:58John Jantsch:You've been in the business 20 years, a lot of organizations out there doing producing data. Is there something that you're trying to learn or you like initially started this to try to learn that maybe nobody else is measuring? Well, it was really about looking inside of agencies. And all the time I've been working inside of agencies, it's really a bubble. Like you're doing everything you can to the best you can and you're not really exactly sure how other peers are successful or what they're doing. So we wanted Agency Corps to really take a look inside of agencies so that people can see how people are being successful, what kind of retention, where they're focusing, what kind of products they're selling.

2:38And at the end of the day, truly, the study is an attitudinal study. So it's not about the specific mechanics, but it has a lot to do with the overlying attitudes that people have and how those attitudes really reflect how successful they are and what they're doing. Yeah.

2:56John Jantsch:You know, we work with a lot of agencies and I tell you, I've been doing it that for 20 years as well. And you say attitude, I've been using the word mindset, you know, because I think there definitely is a, there's a bigger shift going on right now. It feels like than ever, you know, before, since I've been in this. And a lot of it is they just have to wrap their heads around a whole different way of going to market even, or at least that's what we're seeing. Your study actually does kind of sort agencies into a couple of groups that I would call maybe mindset has a lot to do with those groups.

3:30John Jantsch:One called the confident differentiator. That was maybe my favorite. What does a confident differentiator do day to day that puts them in that segment yeah so it's a classic story right we've all heard about niching down yeah but the key in that attitudinal segment is that we see these are people who have taken a position it's not just you know sitting down with your team you know talking like here's who we are here's what we do but it's really about you know spending the time going out speaking writing creating content around it you know turning down clients that don't really fit that core focus that you're providing so they're creating that classic true differentiation that you know we all talk about and seek but when we i think as we look at the study and things we might touch on is statistically the people who are in that particular segment are doing way better i mean you know even as we talked about differentiation, we're seeing the numbers really start to create a huge gap and how those individuals are much more successful and confident.

4:40And not just revenue profit, probably, right? Well, I mean, we're not really talking about products specifically, but like things like how relevant is my agency? How much of a concern do I have about being able to justify the fees that I'm providing. You know, is AI, you know, how much of a threat is AI to my business model? Those individuals are reporting, you know, much more confidence around those types of areas. So we're not specifically talking about profit, but once again, the attitude here. Yeah.

5:15John Jantsch:You know, we encounter, I mean, this idea of, you know, find a niche has been around a long time. I think a lot of people have gone down that path maybe incorrectly. In other words, saying, we're going to just work with Dennis starting tomorrow. And then find, yeah, six months in that they don't really, Dennis isn't a good market or, you know, whatever the, not picking on Dennis, just, you know, it's more of the approach. So what does your survey say about that kind of hesitation of like, I don't want to turn, you know, other stuff away? so this is more me speaking as a agency owner and just kind of in there i you know someone comes up to you and in your heart you know you can help them and they have a big bag of money in their hands my goodness take it yeah um being able to niche down is really in a function of you know are you demonstrating an authority and at the end of the day are other people saying hey they're really good at this because we can talk about ourselves all we want but the moment other people start saying hey these particular people have a great reputation in this one particular area that's that that's when you know you're truly you know establishing that that confident differentiating positions so one of the i see this all the time 13 to 16 percent of agency owners say they're fully executed on the strategies they name as their top priorities.

6:47John Jantsch:What's up with that? That's wild. I know being an accomplished kid in the business is common. We're horrible at doing our own marketing, but we do it for others all the time. For me, that statistic stands out greatly because there's so much change in the market with AI and just the way things are changing, and the fact that if you're using Cloud, I'm using OpenAI, we're all kind of the same agency at the end of the day if we're not really standing on a particular reputation or authority. So when we look at 13 % only executing it, what blows my mind is when there's so much change happening and we know a lot of the actual deliverable work that we do is being commoditized more rapidly than ever before, I look at it and it just blows my mind.

7:44We've got to be able to do better. Our business models might fail for those who are sitting there and rely on the complexity of marketing, being able to execute because it's too technical. I mean, the tide's going out and AI has really eroded that area. So unless we're really showing authority and a true understanding of our clients, we're not going to be able to be competitive. And what really gives me a lot of hope about this is, once again, it's about the fundamentals of marketing are still so true.

8:16John Jantsch:Yeah, always. They haven't changed no matter what the platform, right? Yeah. So that statistic I cited at the opening, that nine out of 10 feel like their agency is more likely to make them succeed, only four out of 10, but four, yeah, four out of 10 plan to reduce the relationship. So walk me through both of those numbers. I mean, how can they both be true at the same time? Well, so I think what it really looks at is, this is I said, you know, the tide is moving out on certain types of work. So when we look at the nine out of 10, as far as end clients, and that's the specific statistic came out of the agency edge research through AMI.

8:53It is, you know, we're still incredibly relevant. Clients know they need an agency. They need an expert. They need authority in the position and that, you know, it is more likely that their initiatives will be successful if they have the right people at the table with them. You know, it's just knowing that like we're still incredibly relevant. Okay. But when you look at the certain end clients, like decreasing their spend, you know, we're all seeing it. Whether it's like producing brochures, writing content. You know, AI is doing it excessively well. you know and for a lot of clients good is enough for certain types of work when i bridge the two together it is the fact that the agency can show up provide strategy provide greater higher levels of confidence and judgment and direction and with that in place and you know as an end client access to a lot of these tools that are more affordable than ever before they're moving faster so i look at that statistic and I say, there are certain types of engagements that we're used to doing in providing deliverables that are now commoditized that are absolutely, we're going to lose, we lose ground on those.

10:08But it's the strategy work. It's the direction that the nine out of 10 comes from. Yeah.

10:15John Jantsch:Hey, I want to say a quick word about something we run here at Duct Tape Marketing. If you're a fractionalist CMO, a consultant, or an agency owner, you've got the expertise. What's hard is turning what you know into a practice that pays you like clockwork. That's what our Certified Duct Tape Advisor Program does. Over 90 days, you'll work one-on-one with a coach to build a strategy-first engagement, a product, literally, that you can sell, a repeatable way to deliver it, and a path to ongoing fractional CMO work. You earn the credential and a license to run our system under your own brand. And here's my favorite part.

10:52John Jantsch:our first client promise. Do the work, finish the program. And if you haven't landed your first client in 90 days, we keep going with you until you do. Go to dtm.world slash certification and book a 90-day roadmap session. That's dtm.world slash certification. Yeah. Well, and that's, you know, I've been preaching this line, strategy before tactics for, you know, at least 30 years. and I mean, it's, you know, it's absolutely going to be, I think, the only space left. In fact, one of the things I think has happened is AI has actually opened up a marketing leadership gap and I think really exposed it.

11:34John Jantsch:It's always been there with small to mid-sized businesses, but I think AI is really exposing the lack of leadership in marketing. And I think that, how do you feel agents, I believe that agencies can rush into that gap, you know, and stop worrying about SEO tactics. But how do you get an agency that's got 20 people sitting around that their job is to do reports and do the stuff we give to clients and get them start thinking more about leaders? I know you didn't research this, but I'm curious what your thoughts are. There's two thoughts, and one is just very awakening. That agency you described, the truth is revenue is going to make that decision for them.

12:14Sure. Right? Yeah. And on the other side, I do believe that it is a lot about the questions that your clients are going to ask us. I can tell you over the past year or two, how our clients have started to engage us has been very different. From asking about deliverables and the more technical service offerings to showing up and going, how do we do this? Should we do this? And it is, once again, fundamentals, right? If we're focused on our clients and we're looking at the questions they're answering and we understand the problems and pain that they're having, naturally there should be a progression.

12:52If we're stuck and focused on the deliverable, I mean, that is a core thing. Like if you're not client focused or client centric, then you're going to miss that transition to some degree. But I think the decision is going to get made for you, good or bad.

13:07John Jantsch:You identified another segment you call the AI opportunity embracers. And we certainly are seeing that out there that people are rushing in saying, oh, there's money to be made in this new frontier. But I'm also seeing a lot of them already going, we can't really get any clients just pitching that because they can do it themselves for 20 bucks a month. Right. Well, I mean, my agency is very heavily in this area also because we do a tremendous amount of development work. And we do a tremendous amount of work that is being affected by AI. so like in this like we have a people problem the adoption is really difficult to really you know to get with people to get people to truly know how to leverage it and when we look at this particular segment a lot of the problem is people are moving into ai aggressively because it is new there is a lot of opportunity and honestly right now ai itself is enough of a buzzword that you can hang your hat on it.

14:07John Jantsch:Sure. It's like when social media came around. There were all these social media marketing agencies. Yeah. But being in the business long enough, I can tell you that this opportunity, the whole AI being your differentiator, that is going to disappear really quick. It's already table stakes. Sure. When you look at it, end clients already understand that we're using it. They just want us to do it responsibly. So this particular segment, the real the people who are chasing ai going ai is the answer there is still plenty of opportunity in this area the big concern is people are running really fast but where are you going you know there's a reason the compass was invented before the clock it's because it's more important to know where you're going so the big fear in this area is that you're moving really fast and you're going to end up somewhere where there's not going to be enough ground to live on Yeah, look at all the$100 ,000 stalled AI projects that a lot of corporations launched.

15:04We have our own gravy project. We're learning from every one of them. I call this, you know, this is definitely education.

15:13John Jantsch:So what's the research say about pricing models that, you know, are clients saying, hey, you need to do this for, you need to charge me 50 % less because you're using AI to do it? we're not really seeing that we're seeing that not only are marketing budgets in general in the industry still increasing but we are seeing that end clients are saying that they are willing to not only not decrease but they're willing to pay more for higher levels of expertise in the specific area we have seen where like i think 29 of end clients are saying that they expect to reduce fees because of AI. But once again, I'm bringing this back to the concept of commoditization where certain types of deliverables absolutely do not have the pricing power that they used to.

16:02So if you do, just like the confident differentiators, if you have a level of authority, absolutely, the end clients are more willing to pay for it more and more than before. So when you look at that statistic about agencies themselves saying like, what was it? Only 25 % believe AI strategy is a differentiating factor in selection, I'm saying like, this isn't going to last forever, but hey, agencies, here is a giant window. There's a door open right now. And if you can aggressively take advantage of this, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

16:40John Jantsch:Well, and I tell you, one of the things we've seen over the years is coming in the strategy door is a far better relationship with the client than coming in the vendor, do this thing to her. And I think that, so, you know, our clients have been with us for many years and I think it has to do with the fact that we start them all with strategy. You know, as before we ever start talking about fixing all the stuff they want fixed. And I know like there's a lot of agencies I work with just don't feel comfortable, don't feel like they have the pricing power. Or at the end of the day, they say, hey, my clients don't want it.

17:13Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's hard i i get it i get how that's the conversation but like they're just as you said like the agency that's producing reports like you know if you focus down if you niche in if you lean into an area it is an investment it's hard growth is painful but as you do that you are able to show up in a more significant way you can charge more your clients will spend more and there is still a lot of power in the generalist i'm not saying like niching down doesn't mean you have to choose an industry. You can choose a region. You can choose an attitude. You can choose a strategy. But then you do have something to hang your hat on.

17:52I think people get caught up and niching down means I have to work with dentists all the time. I don't believe that's true at all. But it does mean that you have to have focus and you can't be all over the place. The general position will erode. And even those that are very successful, I think they'll find out that there is some commonality between who they're getting business with, whether it's like the size of the SMB, whether it's the region, whether it's the tactical approaches. There is typically a common thread in there that has allowed them to be successful that they're maybe just not focusing on.

18:27John Jantsch:Yeah, I mean, we've done that before with clients. You know, make it, let's show me, you know, show me your thousand clients and we whittle it down and like 80 % of their business is coming from this 20 % band. It happens all the time. you don't because you're so in it a lot of times yeah yeah yeah so we've talked about the confident differentiators and maybe the the outliers the opportunity seekers what does the data show about these people that are like where do we go i just feel pressure i don't know what direction to go right it's a hard place to be because obviously and i think when we look in that like 16 of that segment was very open about just like you know closing it down and moving on yeah yeah a lot of it is because you know to be in this industry you have to have like some significant moxie to show up every day like someone's moving your cheese every day every hour and you know for a lot of people that that's why this industry is so exciting too yeah this is you know where we've been used to like, you know, weathering the storm, whether it's, you know, the pandemic or the 2008 housing, or, you know, just the politics that are running through, this is not a storm.

19:42This is a new climate. So for those that I've weathered many, many storms, I know there, there are some people who are just like, you know, like I'm tired. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it does, there's a lot of investment. I will have to say though, John, as I've been talking to people, even like a year and a half ago, the conversation was a lot about, are we relevant? Like with AI, I mean, who's going to need us? What are we going to do? I will tell you just in the course of one year, the conversation has changed dramatically. We are relevant. I'll tell you that right now. And so for all those folks it's like you know stick around you know follow the data talk to peers you know just and i do think that you once again we just need to become acclimated it is a new climate you know as we start to learn more and we start to get more comfortable things get clear there's less uncertainty than there was before and for those folks you know the statistics just show that it's a big change and it's a difficult change and but there's still probably more opportunity than ever before if you can take the time but to see it yeah that's absolutely the message i've

20:56John Jantsch:been trying to give to folks as well because i'm feeling it the demand hasn't slowed down at all it's just they're asking different questions they really are yeah exactly yeah yeah and the Well, on your own team are very different. You know, you have to retrain your entire team a long time. Yeah. You know, that's, I don't want to go down too much of a rabbit hole here because this could be a whole nother show. And that I think that's one of the, that's one of the challenges a lot of agencies are facing is the people that they attracted and hired and trained are probably not as relevant for the work that needs to be done.

21:29John Jantsch:Right. Yeah. One last statistic, but like even in this, I don't have the exact numbers, but even though there's been a tremendous amount of attrition, when we talk to agencies, hiring has become significantly harder. So think about that. There's been a lot of attrition. The market is full of more people, but yet it's even more difficult to hire. I told you we could go down a whole rabbit hole here. What we've experienced is that to be successful, you're going to have to hire a different... You're not going to hire a doer. You're going to have to hire a strategic thinker who can actually become a leader in your organization.

22:08Because I think the doers, we can outsource, right, Brian?

22:13John Jantsch:Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think it's more of a judgment here. Exactly. So I appreciate you stopping by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Is there someplace you'd invite people to get the research? First off, I know you have that hosted. And then obviously find out more about White Label IQ. So absolutely. Go to agencycore.org. Everything is completely ungated. You can download all the data, all the visualizations, all the studies, executive studies. It's all there for everybody. No gating, no emails required. But sign up and we'll keep you informed. For us, whitelabeliq.com, absolutely. Also, Brian Gerstner looked me up on LinkedIn.

22:53I'm pretty active.

22:55John Jantsch:Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you stopping by. Maybe we'll run into you one of these days just up the highway there. All right. Appreciate it, John.