Your Team Reflects Your Leadership Values

0:00John Jantsch:What if the reason your team can't have hard conversations with you, with each other, with clients, isn't a communication problem, but a values problem hiding underneath one? Hey, it's John Jantsch here. I've got a quick question for you. Are you a consultant, agency owner, or fractional CMO who feels like you're reinventing the wheel with every new client, or worse, giving away strategy for free? Well, you're not alone, and that's why we created the Fractional CMO Plus Certification. It's a three-day live experience where you'll license the duct tape marketing proven strategy first approach. You'll learn how to turn strategy and strategy engagements into a product.

0:38John Jantsch:Our next certification is right around the corner. Head on over to dtm.world slash certify. That's dtm.world slash certify. And book a call with a live advisor or, heck, you can just chat with our AI advisor too to see if this is a fit for you.

1:05John Jantsch:Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jance. My guest today is Aiko Bathaya. She's the founder and CEO of Rare Coaching and Consulting, an executive coach to Fortune 100 companies and nonprofits, and the author of a book we're going to talk about today, Anchored Aligned Accountable, a framework for transcending bullshit and transforming our lives and work. With a foreword by Renee Brown. She's a former director at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and a Dare to Lead certified facilitator. So Iko, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me, John.

1:44John Jantsch:So you know, these books, they've become really popular now that have curse words in the title, you know, that's kind of a new thing. And then you put these, you know, you don't want to have the full word. So you put the little aster or the, what do we call that? Asterisk. You're right. In there. So how are we supposed to pronounce that when it has the asterisk in it? I just went and blew through it and said the real word, but I always find that funny. Well, one, I think you said it perfectly. When I'm with audiences, oftentimes maybe I'll say BS instead, but you were perfect. So you have worked with major institutions, Fortune 500 companies, mentioned already, the Gates Foundation.

2:20John Jantsch:Now you're working with businesses of all sizes, really. What did you see inside those bigger organizations maybe that made you want to build a framework for something, I don't know, some people might see as unglamorous, like self-leadership? Yeah, I would say that the same thing I saw within organizations when I was supporting them with their culture reflected what I saw in the leaders at all levels. So not just the C-suite that I work with, but also folks who might be entry level. And it was this, what could have been built for them is knowing who they are and who they want to be as a leader versus always looking for external validation, second-guessing themselves based on whichever way the wind was blowing.

3:03Is my boss glad today? Are they in a bad mood? Who do I need to be? Did I get an argument with my partner today? What is the news saying? I remember that voice of my grandmother that was saying X, Y, and Z. But supporting them and getting right back to their own grounding of who is it that they want to be and to have that intrinsic motivation versus going any way which the wind blows and feeling insecure or unsupported.

3:31John Jantsch:When you, we already mentioned the BS in the subtitle, was there a pattern that you were actually naming when you chose that for your framing? Absolutely. We say the framework itself is very simplistic. The framework for self-leadership at home or at work is being anchored into your values, aligned in terms of your actions, aligning with those values, and then being accountable for whatever that impact might be as well. And I would say that just with that alone, it helps people to come back to the forefront. And I had to think about what gets in the way of somebody actually practicing this framework.

4:08And it's what I call the BS. So they could be the things in terms of we all have a community or family of origin, this belief that you need to always be producing to earn your worth, a belief of perfectionism or scarcity, which is like, hey, there's only enough of juice to go around, right? Or here comes John being hired, so I need to either sabotage him or keep one-upping him versus thinking there's enough of space for everyone. And once I go into scarcity, it completely goes, it's like the cousin of catastrophizing. Because once I realized, oh, man, John's a new guy on the block. He's going to, there's only space for one of us.

4:48And I think, wow, you're doing so well and you're outshining me. Next thing I do is I see that I'm going to be fired. I'm not going to be able to pay my bills. We're going to be homeless. It happens like in a second. So the BS is really all of these things that we default to and may not always even recognize where they're coming from. But they stop us from being able to be anchored, aligned, and accountable.

5:10John Jantsch:I love that. talking about that because so many people, it's like, it's cliche, but it's from childhood, right? A lot of the stuff that we carry around, I have nine siblings, so there are 10 children. Oh, whoa. And so I should have a scarcity mentality, right? But my mom was always, her big thing was, there's always room for one more. There's always room for one more. I love that. And I think that just really, you know, I feel like I do have that, like, hey, I have no competitors. There's like the world's this big place, you know? And so it is funny that we do carry that into however we show up.

5:42John Jantsch:That's a beautiful gift that your mom gives you. That's a great gift. So there's a, I mean, you're talking about being anchored in values. I think a lot of business owners would say, well, yeah, I, you know, I bring my values to it. I'm, you know, my business is all about, you know, what I believe and what I value. So what's the difference between having those values and actually in your words, being anchored? Yeah. So I could probably show you better than I could tell you. So I start off with asking people just top two values, because once you get to four, five, and six, it's just dilution. So John, what would you say one of your top values is?

6:16John Jantsch:What is your top two? Top values? Well, I kind of shared one of them. I think that abundance, you know, is that the world's an abundant place is certainly one of them. And then I would like to say also kindness that, you know, that's something that's hard in In practice, especially as a business owner, when you're forced with like people punching you or it feels like it. But I would say those are pretty high. Yes. So when you're in abundance in that value, what are you doing? You kind of told us a little bit, but just say a couple of the actions. One, as I said, you know, really certainly not viewing in the business context, not viewing people as competitors, but really viewing people as collaborators, you know, partners more often regardless of how the world might label them.

7:01John Jantsch:Lovely. And then kindness. What does that look like? What are you doing? Well, probably starts with words, you know, really choosing words carefully and not, you know, not letting like the fact that I'm stressed out about a deadline or something of impact how I maybe show up in a meeting before that or something. Yeah. So you have this degree of intentionality about what you say and maybe there's behaviors that sounds like you maybe even pause before you say or do something. So I sound like a really good person, don't I? You do. I want to look at you. For sure, I want to look at you. And if we go back to your question that you asked, you said, why does it get in the way in terms of people being able to be anchored in their values?

7:40And because your values are so lovely, I'm going to take a different turn on this. What could get in the way of that is that our values also have a shadow side. Like when we over-index on them. And so it might be, John, that there's somebody who, let's just say your business, you have somebody who is, you know, perpetually coming in late, leaving early or something, and your value is kindness. So you want to, you know, you want to be able to not like be yelling, you're being very intentional about the words you use, et cetera. And this is not the case for you because I know that you're a mature leader, period.

8:15But what might get in the way of somebody really being anchored in that value of kindness might be the shadow side where I'm not going to give Bob the feedback. It might land really in a hard place because my value is kindness. And so I don't want to hurt him. I also don't want him to feel like there's not enough space or room at the table for him. So I might not live into truly what that value of kindness is, which you'll go to the impact. Your impact isn't likely that you want Bob to keep underperforming. And if you keep thinking about it, you'd be like, the impact is I want Bob to be able to do his best.

8:57And so we would have to look at the impact, you know, like, well, if I don't say anything, I'm actually not looking into my value. So that critical self-awareness and curiosity would take you to, wow, actually my value would tell me that I need to give him this feedback. And that's the kindest I could be. So I want the impact to be that he is able to show up and do his best work. But that shadow side can sometimes deter us from truly being in that value. And instead we're deflecting or going over indexing in other ways. So that's the other side of it.

9:32John Jantsch:Well, it's really interesting you talk about that kind of flip side of it, because I will say that I've learned through trial and error that sometimes that kindness can show up in the negative and that I hate confrontation. And sometimes confrontations necessary, but I avoid confrontation sometimes. So, you know, that's an instance where it actually having maybe that self-awareness is really an important understanding, isn't it? absolutely and you're drilling and peeling back on that value it's still the value of kindness but you realize wow kindness means being able to have this impact yeah helping bob to be the best he can and helping you to be able to be honest and authentic versus just sparing somebody's feeling and actually i'm trying to avoid conflict so that's how values we can live into them by being so clear about it and being clear of the impact usually people don't get to that next point of the check and balance, which is, but am I having the impact I want?

10:31Wait, I'm not in alignment.

10:34John Jantsch:If you're a consultant, agency owner, or a fractional CMO who feels kind of exhausted from starting from scratch with every new client, well, this is for you. The fractional CMO plus certification is a three-day live experience built to help you stop being the bottleneck and start leading with clarity. You're not only going to learn, you're going to license all of our systems, documented processes, and practical tools all grounded in the duct tape marketing strategy first approach. We're going to help you turn strategy engagements into a product you could sell over and over again. You'll also get one-on-one support and join a community of marketers who actually get what you're building.

11:15John Jantsch:Our next certification is coming up soon. You can learn more at dtm.world slash certified. dtm.world slash certified. Yeah. So I already let the self-awareness term out of the bag. I swear every leadership book that's ever been written, I've had a lot of leadership authors on here. I mean, I can't think of one leadership book that didn't start with the need for self-awareness. If you're going to be a leader, you have to realize all the ways that you're sabotaging yourself or all the behaviors that aren't coming across like you think they are. So how, I mean, how, when you work with somebody who is clearly not seeing what's obvious, you know, a lot of cases, I mean, how do you get a business owner who believes they're in alignment to actually see where the gap is?

12:04Yeah, usually in my coaching practice, I really do go in knowing that and believing that my clients are completely resourceful. I don't need to tell them or direct them what to do. As a matter of fact, me telling them isn't going to help them. Otherwise, they just read an HBR article and do what it says, right? The idea is that intrinsic motivation so that they are living it to who they want to be. So first, we'd start with what impact do they want to have? And what does that impact look like? And if the impact is not correlating, we know there's this motivation now like, well, we've got to do something different.

12:41so they can notice what is actually happening in real time and name it. People don't give me feedback. When I ask for ideas, they don't give them to me. When I actually try to have transparent conversations, people are quiet in the room. They always agree with me. And they're like, but I want people to bring some tension and to be able to give me certain feedback. Okay, so you're not getting the behavior you want or the impact. What are you actually doing? How do you want it to be? How are you going to actually get that from people? Well, what could be getting in the way? And then they might learn, wow, I found out in getting, in practically getting feedback or observing what I do is that when, you know, Beth actually tries to raise her hand or say something, I talk over her.

13:25Or I say my idea first and everyone kind of falls in. I help them to pause to note what are they noticing? How do they want it to be? And now what do you need to do to get there? and why is this even important to you? And that's usually when it goes to not only desired impact, but what are your values and who do you want to be?

13:45John Jantsch:Yeah, and I do think sometimes people, all they can identify is the symptoms, so to speak, and not necessarily the root cause, right? Absolutely. And that's why that working backwards is still important because sometimes, just like when you say people, ask people, how do you want it to be? They're not even going to tell you, but they're able to say, this is what I don't like and this is what I don't want. And we can work from there. So one of the true, I think, challenges, but also I think necessary skills for leaders that manage individuals is accountability. In other words, somebody knowing what's expected of them, but then you're holding them to that.

14:22John Jantsch:But unfortunately, I see it turns a lot of times into like, did you meet your numbers? Like that's the only accountability measure. How do you get people to take it kind of beyond that or actually turn it into what it should be? Yeah, we ask them, there's a lot of different techniques we use. And oftentimes in the book, I talk about this thing about looking forward, looking back, looking around. And I use the example of parenting. I think about how do I want it to be? And so with my kids, I think about what's the relationship I want to have with them 20 years from now, 30 years from now? And am I actually nurturing and exuding the behaviors that would lead to that?

15:00where I'm not having kids who are estranged from me, but they actually want me to be around them. And I've curved a lot of things I do in raising my voice to make sure that, one, I'm a soft place to land. I'm a transparent and honest place to land. And I'm accountable for the ways that I am communicating with them or the impact I have with them. And I'm listening, et cetera. So with a business owner or something, I would want them to think about how do you want it to be X number of years from now? And it's not going to just be, oh, I want my numbers to be here, X, Y, and Z. They want to have some type of impact in their personal life with their employees.

15:38What type of culture do you want? And all of those things go to the how and not just the what. Not just the numbers, but also how do I want it to be in the organization? How do I even want to feel every morning when I know I'm going into X place? and that helps them to think about behaviors and not just this transactional component of the bottom line and the numbers.

15:59John Jantsch:You have likely had to navigate some rooms differently than me. You're an attorney, senior leader. You are a woman. You're a woman of color. What did navigating in that way, what the challenges that you uniquely faced, what did that bring you to today? Well, a couple of things. One, and thank you for asking that question, John. It helps me to notice people in the room who might normally be treated as invisible or not seen because I've been on that receiving side, going to argue a case as a first year attorney and people presuming that I'm the paralegal. And so I know what some of the assumptions can be and how we can jump to conclusions and it can be demoralizing for people.

16:40And it also makes us lose a degree of connection. And that means when I go into a room, I'm often thinking about who has the least amount of power in this room and how could I actually have an impact on people that I don't want to have. So I check my stories. I check what in the room is going to accommodate people. I realized that me just coming into the room and saying, hey, Beth, team, I want you all to be fully honest with me and transparent without me actually naming also that I understand what the risks could be and why that might be scary for you, but I want you to trust that because of X, Y, and Z, this is what I'll do instead.

17:20So I might tell somebody, I know that you may feel like you're the only person who X, but I need to hear your voice and I tell them what that value proposition is and getting this different innovation or different rigor, how it serves all of us and that I will not be throwing you under the bus for X, Y, and Z and recognizing that vulnerability is different for everyone. It also means when you're on a team full of women. So one of the examples I give in the book is about a PTA meeting. And there's only one male father who comes to the meeting. And they're all women. And there's like, you know, 60 women.

17:54And they start with the PTA president actually saying, well, as always, there are no dads here, no men. And it's the women leading the work. And where does that leave him? He knows now his voice probably isn't going to matter. I need to tiptoe. and somebody else, another mother, comes and apologizes and says, you know what, that shouldn't have been said. I want you to understand the context of why that was said, but it shouldn't have been. And you have as much to add here as everybody else, and I want to hear your voice. So that proactive closing the gap when you recognize who might have more to lose or a larger risk in the room and proactively addressing it.

18:30John Jantsch:So the term psychological safety seems to be one of those that is really in the boardrooms or in the leadership circles, certainly as part of culture. A lot of my listeners, five and six person organizations, you know, how do they kind of practically teach that to their leaders? You know, what does a version of that look like for them? Yeah, I think probably often modeling it. And when I talk about the terms of safe space, brave space, and psychologically safe space, I say that none of those actually own the idea of power and identity, et cetera. So as I'm also a business owner, I am aware that, wow, they feel like they're talking to the CEO.

19:12And this is somebody who hires and fires. So this idea of one inviting not only critical thoughts or feedback that is critical of me in my decisions, but then when people give it to me, that's what's most important is how do I respond? So the idea of just the spirit of gratitude, recognizing, I know that may have felt risky for you to share that with me, but it was so important that I hear that because of X, Y, and Z. So holding myself one as somebody who's going to invite it and then holding myself accountable when someone says, hey, that didn't land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And saying, oh, man, you know what?

19:48Let me, even if I don't agree, I'll say, let me think about it because I might be missing something. And I'm going to come back and can we talk about it again? so they know I've thought with it, I get a chance to sit with it and I can circle back and say, you know what, I got that wrong and I'm so glad that you told me that. Or I might say, I'm really glad you told me that, but I don't know if I completely agree, so let's talk about this a little bit more. But I want them to feel heard, not to have punishment or judgment because they've said something that brings some tension or rigor and to hold myself accountable

20:22John Jantsch:first and foremost in the moment. But I've actually heard many times that, you know, some of the healthiest teams are teams that actually can have healthy arguments or healthy conflict. You know, it's not personal. It's just like, I know I have permission to say that's BS, right? So for the person listening to this, and we've been primarily focused on teams, but there's certainly client relationships that a lot of people have that this applies to. So for the person listening to this and they think, something's really off with that, can't really name it. Where would you point that person first if they came to you and just with that sort of said, something's off with my relationships.

20:57John Jantsch:I can't really name it. What should I do first? With my relationships, with my clients. Clients, with my team, maybe, you know, again, a lot of it, I mean, parenting, you know, we've been talking about that. I mean, a lot of times it really all applies. Yeah. So we we dig in at that point and we ask, you know, what is it that you're noticing or you're feeling? And sometimes people say, I don't even know. I just feel like the vibe is off. And right, right, right. That's what I mean. I can't name it. Yeah. So I'll say, well, how do you want to feel? And then they can go back to whatever the moment is.

21:31I want to feel like I don't know, lighter. I want to feel like they can talk to me and I can talk to them, whatever it is, they can start envisioning that. And then I might say, well, what do you feel is getting in the way of that now? Now they're starting to diagnose what it could be. They may be like, I don't know. Well, actually, X, Y, and Z, there was this weird moment where blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we start seeing behaviors and moments. And what were you doing? What was happening? If you wanted to get to X, this delta of I want to feel lighter, I want to feel, what's that mean you might need to do differently?

22:06And sometimes it may not be in that scenario with that person. And we go all the way back and say, tell me you had a relationship that you feel like you're in flow with and in sync and you love this relationship. And we go through where the components and characteristics of it. What do you all do? What do you not do? And then we can go back to this other one as a delta and say, OK, is any of that replicated here? You know what? As a matter of fact, you don't. When I see John, it's high and by and there's nothing else. And then we realize, wow, having that interpersonal connection is important.

22:38or John has never told me anything that was critical of me. It's like he always agrees. So now I realize I have to go and have a conversation and say, hey, I really want you to be able to tell me things that are difficult so I can be better. But those are ways you can diagnose it by contrast and compare. That's right.

22:57John Jantsch:Awesome. Well, Iko, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Is there anywhere you would invite people to connect with you and find out more about your work as well as pick up a copy of Anchored, Aligned and Accountable. Yeah, there's a few places on Instagram. They can find us on at rare, R-A-R-E underscore coach, or on LinkedIn under my name, Iko Bethea, and also our website, rarecoaching.net. Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road. Thank you for having me, John.