21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Q&A Season 1, w/John Maxwell

0:02This is the Ed Mylett Show.

0:30question may show up here on the show through the voice of Max Milet, who's going to be asking us the questions today. So, John, thank you for being here. Oh, my gosh. If I'm with you, I'm a happy man. So am I. We've had more fun off camera than you can possibly imagine. So hopefully now we're going to have some fun on camera. Exactly. Go ahead, Max. Why don't you start us off? Yeah, sounds good, guys. So the first question we have comes from one of the fans that downloaded the workbook and it's for you, John. So question one will be, I feel like I'm losing influence with my kids as they get older.

0:58They don't listen the same way. And I just don't want to trust, control them. I want them to trust me. How do I lead my family through influence instead of authority? Well, first of all, the most humbling thing in life is being a parent. Okay. Let's start right there. Everybody needs to be a parent and everybody knows exactly what this question's all about because as your children grow, the relationship changes with them. And there does come a time, I remember when Margaret and I, when our two children became teenagers, I'll tell you something, just to put a quick funny story in. I told the publisher I would write a book called Breakthrough Parenting.

1:39Get the picture. I'm going to write this book when my kids become teenagers. Let's talk about who doesn't understand timing. And so I'm doing breakthrough parenting. My kids are teenagers. Hey, they're not listening. My influence is waiting. In fact, I'm calling the publisher and I'm saying, this isn't working. I said, could I change the title book? I'd like to call it a breakdown parenting. I think that, oh, hey, here's a better break up parenting. We may break up over this. Now I please understand where you are. Every parent has been and will be. And I love your question because you're a good parent and I know you're a good parent because you're saying, I know it's not what it was.

2:21And how do I get it back? And let me see if I can help you just for a moment. You get it back when you talk to your children and ask them how you get it back. This is so key. I learned with our children that when it wasn't going well, instead of me telling them why it wasn't going well, I sat down and said, help me out as a parent. It's not going well. What could I do better to kind of up-level us? Is there something I could say differently? or is there, let's just talk about it. The moment I included my children in the conversation, we up-leveled it every time. And I think that's a big miss. I think so many times we as parents say, I've got to have direction here and I've got to make sure that I'm the one that's in control.

3:09And I think there's something beautiful about a parent. In fact, there's something beautiful about a parent looking at their child and say, I'm sorry, I could have done that better. I wish I had another shot at it, but I will have another shot at it. So help me next time so I can do it better for you. So I would just say to you, you never fix a problem by ignoring the problem. You only fix a problem not by giving answers, but by asking questions, including them in the process. Trust me, if you do that, you'll up-level that connection. What a tremendous answer. Yeah, that was great. I can't add to that one.

3:47That was too good. Yeah, that was a great one there. So for the next question, we have it for you. Gosh, John, that was so good. That was a great answer. Our next question is, I'm in a leadership role, but I can feel my team complying, but not fully buying in. They do what I ask, but there's just no energy there. How do I shift from authority-based leadership to real influence? Well, I would defer to John on all of these things. But one of the things that I've learned to do a better job of that I was not very good at, and it goes along the lines of what John was just answering on the other question.

4:18When I was a younger leader, I was a tell leader where I would walk in a room and sort of tell them where we were going. Dictate sort of the sense of direction because I thought that's what a leader does. You know, a leader's got vision. It tells you where we're going and how great it's going to be when we get there. And there's an element of that. But I learned to be a better ask leader when I walk in a room and say, hey, here's the challenge we've got or this is the direction we need to go. How do we get there, everybody? And it's interesting that you say what you just said regarding children because I hope I did that as a dad.

4:46But I know definitively I did a better job of that as a business leader as I got older. The other thing that I think when you're not getting total buy-in or there's a lack of energy, I think oftentimes people forget why. And I think a reminder of why we do what we do, why we exist as a company, why we exist as a church, why we exist as a family, reminding people of why we're doing this. And then I always really believe that when a leader starts to feel distance from people, even as a parent or a business leader, I think people forget how much you believe in them. Or maybe they were never told in the first place.

5:19And so I'm pretty big on reminding people of why exactly I believe. Not just the hokey, the general. You're a champion. Not just hypey. You're amazing. But looking at somebody and saying, this is exactly what I see in you. This is your giftedness. This is your talent. This is what I admire. this is what I respect and pour into people and then link that belief to the mission. But I think you'll never make a mistake as a leader in any way by pouring belief into people. And I think what happens to a lot of leaders, John, is I think they just get tired of it. I think there's leadership fatigue. They think they've got to come up with new things to say all the time.

5:52You know, and I, at least for me, oftentimes to me, it's not about saying new things all the time to the older people. Sometimes it's about saying the same old things to new people. That's right. And just pouring in belief to people, reminding them why and where we're going and how amazing it's going to be when we get there. I think that can infuse energy into the team or the organization. That's so good. You know, I was having a conversation with Mark Cole, who owns all of Maxwell Enterprise. I love Mark. And Mark was talking about one of the people on our team. And he said, I'm having conversation right now.

6:24And basically, my conversation is, I need you. And when he was telling me that, I thought to myself, that's powerful for me to look at you on the team and say, I need you. I really do. Truthfully, what we're trying to accomplish, I'm not sure we can accomplish. We don't have you. I think when a person has that sense that the leader truly needs them and it's authentic, I just think it also brings great buy. The more I listen to you, and I listen to you all the time, even privately as a friend, one of the through lines, I'm just saying this now, but I've always felt it. You really infuse a great deal of humility in your leadership formula.

7:11Have you noticed that that's one of the real nuances? I used to think when I was younger, I've got almost flex as a leader to prove I'm in charge. Yeah, I know. I think introductory, all of us think we've got this, have this right appearance and— Posture. Posture, yeah. That's a better word. But you—so much of the through line of the things that you teach involves humility as a leader. And whether we keep this in or not, I'd like to know this. Is that—that's a biblical principle. I mean, I think of Jesus knowing my time here and him washing the disciples' feet, the apostles. Is that something you always come back to as humility as a leader, service?

7:55Here's what I think. I think where I am today, if somebody said, what's the one thing that you point to to success in your life? It wouldn't be the books I've written. It wouldn't be the leadership speeches I've given. These are the stuff that people would probably say. The reason I'm where I am today, Ed, is because I have a lot of people who help me. I am not a self-made man. Neither am I. I'm a team-made man. And I look at the people who have given up a lot in their life, who could have probably gone and done their own thing and probably done very well with it. But they decided to help me. And I am.

8:38That's what's humbling. I don't know if I have thought of it the way you said of having humility and leadership like you just said it. But that's who you are, Ed Milet. And Ed Milet brings out the insights that none of us think of until you give it to us. And then we say, yeah, that makes sense. So the way you said it to me, I probably have never integrated it that way. But in my heart, here's what I know. The reason I am where I am today and the reason I am still where I am at 79 and still going forward is because the people in my life that have given up everything to make sure that I can be a success.

9:13that to me is not only humbling, it just fills me with gratitude. I mean, what would I do without all those people? Well, what I would have done would have been less than what doing. That's a draft pact. Yeah, that's true for you in my life, just so you know. I would have done a whole lot less in my life without you in it. Well, see, but I feel the same thing about you. Oh, John. See, that's what, you know what makes a great relationship a great relationship? You look at each other with integrity and you could say, honestly, you make me better. I can honestly say that. See, and don't you think that's what a great relationship is all about?

9:53I do. I think so, too. Yeah. I look at you and I'm full of love. I look at Mark. I look at Aaron. I look at my team. I look at people that are with me. These people, Ed, would take a bullet. They would. They would. What is it? the only thing I could say to them is I would hope I would be as good as them I'm not sure I am but I would hope I'd take a bullet for them too you would look at you getting emotional what's your fault? it's your fault if you wouldn't be tabbed but I've never had anybody express my leadership in that way that you just did as soon as you said I thought that's insight and I've really not thought about it but I think I know where it comes from.

10:40It comes from the fact that I really do know. There's no fake to this. I really do know that I'm on the shoulders of a lot of people who have said, we'll carry you. Yeah. Yeah. None of the things that you teach, and I know we're going a little longer than maybe they thought on this, but sometimes you're right. You know, you, was it a hundred books now? Well, it's, it's 90 some, but who's counting? I'm just old. When you're old, you do that many books. That's not true. He writes every day, everybody. That's why he's dedicated. He writes every single day of his life. We were talking about this off camera.

11:19But these aren't strategies in your book. You live these things. You're not like, oh, I need to value people. You value people. You embody these traits and characteristics and laws yourself. that's the thing about you that I know it's an old adage of leadership, but walking the walk being the example. I know you probably won't accept that compliment, but it's actually so true. Yeah. It's one thing to know and teach a principle. It's another thing to integrate it and live that principle. If I know a good principle and I teach it, people really get help from it because it's a good principle. When I integrate it and I live it, they're impacted by it.

12:03You see, it's one thing to say it. It's one thing to live it. All of the moral gravitas of life is embracing and living what you teach. That's where the power, that's where the impact is, I think. And when I was very young, I was in my 20s, I could still remember making a very conscious decision that I would never teach what I did not believe and what I did not live. And I want to tell you, as a young leader, because I didn't have experience, that left out a lot of teaching in my life because I just didn't. I hadn't lived it yet. I hadn't embraced it yet, even though I thought it was true. And I thought teaching from the head will inform people.

12:46teaching from the heart will impact people. Outstanding. And there's a difference between those two. Huge difference. I know it when I see it. I see it with John. And we all know it when we see it anywhere. You don't have to tell people when it's happening. You don't need to say it's happening. Everybody knows it's happening because they're impacted by it. I believe that. Amen. Gosh, I love talking with you. I do too. I'm sitting here thinking what a blessing this is. You know, every time we just sit down together, just this stuff happens. There's one thing in common every single time. John. No, no, no.

13:25Ed and John like to do this together. Do you know why we like to do this together? Because we learn from each other and we know what we're learning from each other transfers right to the listener, to the people that are asking these questions today. say, you benefit from this because we're both learning and growing from each other. And so it's kind of like the overflow, hopefully, you're getting today. That's right. Guys, this is just so good here. I almost just didn't even want to interrupt. It's amazing. Thank you. So the next question we got from a fan, and I would say this is for the both of you guys.

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16:17I'll go first on this one just because it's something I learned from John. And I'll phrase it wrong, but the lesson is learned. John says it better than I do. But I've wondered about that too, particularly when I was younger as a leader. And one of the things that John's impressed upon me, that I'm more comfortable. In fact, I give him credit for this. If anybody ever tells me, you know, Ed, you seem a little bit more comfortable in your own skin as you've gotten older. I think some of that comes with age, right? But you told me one time, you said, Ed, if you really want to impress people, and I know you've said this prior, but then, you know, tell them how perfect you are.

16:53but what I heard from you is if you want to connect with people reveal your imperfections to them and I've just become much more comfortable saying I don't know yeah or I made a mistake I'm sorry or can you help me you know all these are things I've learned from you and so I think my answer to you would be that I think you'd be surprised by revealing the fact that you don't have every answer of course and then maybe you've made mistakes and you're not perfect will deepen the connection you have and, for that matter, the influence you have, ironically, by revealing that. And it's one of the things you and I talk privately all the time about, wish we saw more in our leaders in the political world, that they would just say, I don't know.

17:36I'm sorry. I've made a mistake. My intention was X or Y. I got it wrong. And to me, they'd have much more deep connections with us and therefore more trust if they behave that way. And so that would be my part of the answer. What would it be from you? That's a good part. And again, I think what you're saying is I don't think people look for a perfectly. They just would like to have an authentic leader, somebody that's real. You know, in the question, I was very interested in that question because there were two phrases that just kind of pulled my mind out. In the question you asked, it's such a good question, I haven't got it all figured out.

18:13The all figured out I want to talk about in a moment. The second thing I want you to, that I got is that I don't have a clue. Those are extreme things. So let me relieve you. You'll never get it all figured out. My name's John. I'm your friend. We can never connect the dots looking forward. If you want figured out, you got to get it 79 and go back. And it makes sense. You can connect the dots looking backwards. You can't connect forward. So all figured out is too heavy of a burden to carry. Be just understanding that you won't get all figured out. The flip side of that is I don't have a clue. You don't want to be there either.

19:01You'll want to have a clue. It is your job and my job to do our very best as parents, as leaders, to figure as much out as we possibly can. to not go to our group and just say, I don't have a clue. It's kind of like, here's what I'm thinking, and now you add to it. I would like you to live in that middle road, and that middle road is a good road, and that is I don't have it all figured out, but I'm giving it a lot of thought, and I'm getting some of it figured out. I'm very content with some of it figured out because some of it figured out, if I have the right attitude and I go to people like Ed and my team and say, help me.

19:43Here's where I am, but you're going to help me get further. And now they're going to help me figure that out. And we're going to do that together. I think having the best understanding of any situation comes from shared thinking and collaboration. And so therefore, I'm very comfortable not having all the answers, but I would not be comfortable having no answers. I mean, we're not glorifying stupid, but we're also not trying to make a person feel like they have to know everything. So I have a teaching sometimes, and it's just a simple teaching. It just says, just walk down the middle of the road.

20:22Okay, sometimes I'm really good and I have some success, but that's not who I really am. And sometimes I'm really bad and I'm in the ditch, but that's not really who I am. Basically, I just want to walk in the middle of the road. It's because there's more margin there. And there's more reality and there's more humility there. Just walk down the middle of the road and every once in a while you get over there on that right side and get some of that success and it's a good thing. But you know that's not really who you are. Once in a while you kind of go over in the ditch, but that's not who you really are.

20:56Just stay right down the middle. it's in the middle of the road that you get your questions answered it's in the middle of the road that you're seen and understood so just stay in that middle and understand that you'll never get it all figured out and understand you have to have some of it figured out I'm so glad we're doing this this is just stuff that we've not talked about before even privately, this is so good good questions too by the way from the audience great questions, they're doing a great job and this next one we have here I mean, I wish we could just ask like a ton of them. Part of this, I actually have a question for you, Ed.

21:30So you've said quite a bit, and this came from a fan, that leadership is built in the unseen hours. Obviously, growing up, I've seen this with you personally. But for someone who feels like they're in a season and has been following these reps that you've been giving after every single one of these laws, but they haven't seen the immediate results yet, how would you stay disciplined in the process when the outcome is starting to feel really far away? Such a great question. And again, I keep deferring to things I've actually learned from John. And a lot of this has been reinforced the last few years.

22:02But I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for progress and growth. And a lot of this stuff is it's it's not seen. I'll give you an example. When you were little, Max, we went to a birthday party of like a fellow six or seven year old. And they had a pinata, you know, where you hit the pinata. And it was such an incredible metaphor for life because you think about this tradition, it's a beautiful tradition, but what do we really do? It's kind of like business a little bit. You take a young kid, you put a blindfold on them, you spin them around, you give them a weapon. They've got no sense of direction.

22:38They just start aimlessly swinging. So I'm watching these kids, right? So first off, they're just missing it altogether. Then you've got to line them up. It's kind of like being a leader in business. People are all spun around. They feel blindfolded. Then you line them up, and the kids are whacking away at this pinata. and the first kid's just hitting the heck out of it, no candy comes out, and he kind of gets tired. So it looked like there was no progress being made. Oh, this is good. Right, but there's something called, like, compound pounding. Yeah. You don't see it. And so then the next little guy gets up there, Max, and they spun him around, and he's got this blindfold on, and he's whacking away at the piñata, and no candy comes out, and he gets tired and quits.

23:16Looks like there's no progress. Then you got spun around, Max, and you hit the heck out of that piñata, no candy. Finally, we go through about seven, eight kids and this thing's not breaking. It looks like there's no progress. And they take the littlest guy there, the little brother of the boy who's four years old and they spin him around. He takes the little baton and he hits it one time and all candy comes out. Oh my gosh. And the question is, was it just that one blow from that last kid? Or was it the cumulative blows that everybody hit that pinata with that was breaking it down even though there was no evidence.

23:49And life in business is a lot like that pinata. You're swinging away and you're making invisible progress, but it doesn't feel like it. Here's the hook. Most people quit before the candy comes out in their life. They quit because they didn't think they made the progress. They didn't see it coming. And you've seen this enough times, John. Oftentimes they quit one or two blows away from pay dirt. And so watching it that day, I thought that's a metaphor for life and business almost better than anything I've ever seen. Compound pounding and making invisible progress. Don't quit before the candy comes out.

24:22I love the phrase compound pound. I mean, I got my content curator, Aaron, here. I thought, oh my gosh, you're going to hear that from Maxwell because a compound pounding is a great visual and the piñata is a great pounding, compound pounding. Let me take this question because it's a great question. I think there are two things that are unseen that make a person great. But they're unseen. One would be the unseen hours of work that are done before you go out and be with the public. my 4 30 getting in the morning and writing every day is never seen but it will show up it'll show up because i did something with it so there there's that unseen part and then the other unseen part is the honest good work that you do a pounding on the pinata but there's no candy coming out And what I don't want you to miss is those are two unseen things that as a leader you want to have in your life.