Access Your Unlimited Potential w/ Matt Higgins

22:13I have that same process. What's the likelihood of this happening? If it happens, what would I do, et cetera, et cetera? How bad would it really be? But I think it's important for people to know. You're worth several hundred million dollars. So am I. Do you still have problems and things you worry about and anxiety and fears and they're just probably as pronounced as they were when you were younger, I would imagine. I mean, it's endless. And for a bit, I would judge the presence of them as an indication that I'm not evolved or I would condemn myself. Like, when are you ever going to feel that you got it under control?

22:44And the answer, I realized, is never because I am constantly putting myself in an uncomfortable position. You know what I mean? Wouldn't you worry? I'd have to interrupt you. No, please. I would worry. This is so weird. I keep using the word worry. I should stop that. I would have concern if I didn't have concerns. You're complacent then. Like I'd be like, what am I? There's nothing vibrating around me. There's no frequency. There's no expansion happening. There's no growth happening. I, I, the presence of some level of anxiety. Now having like you teach in the book and I teach in my work tactics and tools and strategies to deal with these things and flourish when they happen is important.

23:19But when I was young, I thought I'm going to get to a point in my life when I have enough money and good enough friends and this or that, that I won't have worries or anxiety anymore. And I think that's the picture the world sort of paints for us. And never in any interview have I said this out loud. It's just with you. I just realized that driving on here today, this is not going to end. I'm 52 years old. This is a different kind of prison of our own making. It's a different prison of my own mind. But by the way, I like the escape. I enjoy the escape from the prison. It's okay for me in my life to have issues and problems.

23:54I rather enjoy the escape from the prison. And then just I just finally surrendered the false belief system that there won't be another one eventually present itself in my life. I just want you to acknowledge that because you people look at you like Shark Tank, Harvard, you know, different football teams. You know, a lot of really well-known people admire and respect you. It's just going to be there. Right. And it's having the tactics and strategies to deal with it when it appears. It's so funny. We're talking about this like it's never ending. It's every day. It's almost like the movie 50 First Dates.

24:28I'm like, we're going to do this again? And it's always a constant refrain of like, this time it'll be clear to everyone that the other times were bullshit too. There's a little bit of like, and then when I audit, I'm like, oh, well, this is a painful, hard fact pattern that most people would never be able to engineer, nor would they try. And then every time I indulge myself in a new version of my life, like, you know what, though? I'm going to reap the rewards. It's time for the harvest. You know, and that lasts about 48 hours. And actually, I realized that is as a feedback loop of saying you need a little healing, like you're taking it to the edge.

25:04But the premise of the book, I'm glad we're talking about this. I wondered, is this my confirmation bias? I do think the joy of living is in the striving, that we don't know exactly why we're here or where we're going. And we seek out what's the ceiling on my potential. And that's what brings us joy. It's why marathon runners feel melancholy afterwards and Olympians have depression. it's because we enjoy the training and we enjoy the pursuit. But we don't talk about that a lot. And we don't kind of coach each other about how to say, all right, well, how do we endure in the life of perpetual pursuit?

25:33Here's how right you are. I love where we're going with this here today. Me too. Because I have to tell you, Andrew Huberman, I think you know who Andrew is. Of course, yeah. Andrew and I were talking and one of the things he shared with me is he said they've actually proven that the dopamine hit is actually greater in the pursuit of the goal than the actual moment of achievement. that the benefit in our brains, that great feeling that we get is actually higher and in greater abundance in the pursuit and the journey of the goal or the achievement or the moment or the date or the whatever than it is when we actually get it.

26:07And there's actually a perpetual precipitous drop off after the achievement, which is why a lot of times when we achieve things like, ah, it's not what I thought it would be. It actually was. You just have to reflect on the pursuit of it. That's the cumulative effect of those little wins. It's funny. You say, I feel much more boosted by the little breakthroughs when I've lost hope on doing something. I'm going through something now. And it was like I had a breakthrough. I'm like, wow, this is some of my finest work. And of course, that'll fade within 48 hours. But I have actually come to accept that premise, that at the end of this, I will not feel that big payoff.

26:37I do wonder where joy and celebration fits in. I don't think I have that fully calibrated. I don't think anybody does. I think I'm much further along than I used to be. I actually really work on celebrating. And the reason is, is that I want to convince my neurochemistry, frankly, that this is worth doing again. How do you do it? I love life hacks because I even with the book on the way here, I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I haven't experienced the joy of having a book in an airport. And I used to fantasize about this moment. And yet I haven't done it. So I went in the book and I waited for somebody to walk by the section.

27:05It was a woman. And she slowed enough. I said, hey, do you read these kinds of books? And she's I never would bother reading these books. I'm like, OK, let's do it. She's like, well, I read Atomic Habits. I'm like, hey, you might want to buy it. I go to her. I said, can I buy you my book? And she said, absolutely. And then she asked me where I'm from. She's from the same neighborhood. Oh, see. She's my neighbor. And I'm like, this must be the universe trying to reinforce the attempt. But how do you experience joy? Well, my experience of joy is very similar to what you just said. For some reason, for me, it's the reflection in other human beings, eyes, hearts, messages, et cetera.

27:35I allow myself to accept those compliments now. Whereas before, I'm like, yes, thank you. But you don't know I could have done better. And so I would rob myself from the I could have done better thing. And now I accept that what I did was the best I could do in that moment. And I allow myself to feel the embrace from other people. I've learned in my life, I gain significance. I feel significant when I contribute to the lives of other people. So I've found my recipe. So I don't rob myself from that. The other thing I do is I allow myself to celebrate. Now, they're not long windows of celebration.

28:05I'm not any good at that yet. But when something great happens, I'm good at having a cigar or a bottle of wine or a dinner with people or saying, wow, and reflecting for a moment. and I've built that muscle of bliss. I talk about something called blissful dissatisfaction. People conflate bliss and happiness and satisfaction. They think, oh, if I allow myself to have a bunch of happiness or bliss, I'm going to lose my drive. I'm going to lose the recipe. So because I've kept myself in misery all my life, if I just stay in misery, I'll keep achieving. I found not to be true. I've actually found that as I finally started to celebrate, so I do that with reflection.

28:40I do that with receiving the gratitude from other people. Also for me, we talked before we came on about my faith. For me, every time it happens, just my personal thing is to go, just thank you, Lord. Like, man, you're working in my life again. So it's an acknowledgment that it's not just me and that I'm somehow glorifying a power greater than myself. For me, that's Jesus. For anybody listening to that, that's fine. I'm not here to convert you today. But what I am saying to you is that it's a validation of my faith that there's something greater in life than just me or just this time here. And that's really that is that part.

29:16That last part is the part that I've realized brings me a bliss. I'm always wondering, why do I like to be surrounded by a pain or, you know, I can't handle small talk. And yet when somebody brings up pain or suffering, you know, I get animated. And I realized I like to be reminded about my smallness and the irrelevancy of all things. It's very peaceful. And I had the most incredible experiences over the last year and a half meeting with Pope Francis at the Vatican. Yeah, these private visits with the Pope to talk about refugees and human rights. And then I went to a refugee center in Italy, and it was meeting with what I would believe are my versions of LeBron James, like a dad who would go through, you know, figuring out how to flee in a trunk of a car to give his family a better life.

29:59And I always look at refugees and migrants and think we ask, you know, why are they coming here instead of what are they running from? And but I realized, what is it about me that takes such peace and joy of being around that? Because it reminds me that, oh, this just doesn't matter. The stuff, the accolades, you know, the attention. What really matters is alleviating suffering like you saw in that little apartment in Queens. And so, like, I went to when I went before I went to see the pope, I was like, I'm such a bad Catholic. I really feel like I need to unburden myself. I said, can you send an emissary for me so that I can do confession?

30:33I was like, that's great. And I was like, but it needs to be really close, like three steps from God. I need someone high up. I need someone really high up. And I meet with the, it's in the book, but I meet with the, the Scalabrinis are the order that takes care of refugees and migrants. And I was like, that will do. And I send the head of, Father Leonir to meet me in Little Italy. And we meet for three hours. It was like the books opened up. I mean, because when somebody is that high up in the church, they actually have PhDs and it's all this collected wisdom. And I was unburdening myself. Tears are flowing.

31:05And I was like, you know, I don't agree with this. And it's like, it's OK, my child. You were given free will. You know, it's like everything had the right Jedi answer. But then I was talking about the shame I was carrying. This isn't the book was just getting started. And I was saying, I don't know how to deal with that. And I don't know. I don't know why I keep trying to. He's like, number one, you're trying to go back and save your mother. But the way to save your mother is to save those, save others. You know what I mean? But then also tells me the story of a diamond ring. So let me tell you a story of a diamond.

31:31There was a diamond and it slipped off of one's finger and it went into the sewer. And for years, there is where it remained covered in sludge and mud until one day a little boy was playing in the street and his ball went down to that sewer and he saw it. And him and his dad came out and they put a little hanger down. They were able to bring it back up and it was dirty and whatever. And they washed it off. And there was a beautiful diamond. He's like, no matter how much sludge and mud we cover ourselves up, we were always a diamond. And it was, so I had, there's the point to that story is only having gone to the Vatican and spending time around when I'm not particularly religious, I realized, oh, I need to be reminded of the irrelevancy of all these other things.

32:08I want to stay in that place of a 16 year old boy who witnessed suffering and powerlessness, because that is more important than anything in my life, any possession and anything I'll ever do. But the achievement, having said all of that, the achievement and the success gives you the platform to reach those people. And that's why it's important. And that's why sometimes you say, well, that means I don't have to achieve anything. Wrong. No, the authority. I say I'm collecting authority. The book is just my resume is an incoherent collection of authority to reach people at disparate places. Oh, you admire people on TV?

32:39Well, I'm on Shark Tank. You admire wealth? I have a lot of things. You admire sports? I ran a few of those. But I truly mean it. It is a degree calculated because not one of these things particularly resonate, but collectively they give me the authority to rewind the clock. You're 100%. And by the way, what you've discovered and I've discovered is what every human being who finds some measure of bliss discovers is that you were put here to help contribute to the lives of other people. That's really why you were put here in your own very unique and beautiful way. And sometimes for achievers, we're the last to figure that out.

33:09We are. Sometimes often it's people that work in a church or someone who's dedicated their life, like my sister, to being a school teacher. She figured this out a lot sooner than I did. And although I've got a lot more money than her, she's had a lot more blissful moments and joyous moments in her life. And so sometimes us achievers, it takes us longer to figure it out. However, when we do, we have a platform and a stage and a reach that can make an impact that's even more monumental. I was with Warren Buffett once. He came to a Dolphins game and I got to spend a whole day with him walking around.

33:38and I got to ask him about, you know, compounding interest and a lot of his views. But one of them, I had asked him about, how did he handle waiting until later in his life to make those big contributions to philanthropy? And he told me, I took a lot of criticism for that. And I would struggle with it. But in my mind, I thought going back to compounding, that the ability for me to compound that money in my possession would mean that there would be a lot more of it to distribute by the time I got to the end. I sort of thought that was fast because I'm sure you feel this about accomplishment, right?

34:09I'm a human being. I have aspirations and ambitions. I want to keep playing with my capacity, my potential. So I want to keep creating. And then I want to also ameliorate suffering. And sometimes they can feel attention. So it's like what I've tried to say is I'm allowed to be intentional about my boundaries. I don't have to be a saint, and I'm still accumulating power and resources while redistributing concurrently. And then it's okay, right? Because you know how sometimes I would say, I'm not here to go on a rescue mission. I'm here to make a trajectory change in your life. Very good. You know, a deposit.

34:37Very good. But don't ask me to take custody over you. The word custody is really powerful, and I'm going to use it after today because I think a lot of times people are waiting for somebody to take custody over their life. They're waiting for the government to do it. They're waiting for one seminar they're going to go to or one book they read. And as good as my book is and as good as your book is, they still have to take custody of their lives. And waiting for someone to come along and save you, you will be waiting until the day you die. That's true. And hopefully you've done well enough in your life that you are saved, having said all of that.

35:04Okay. Insight versus invention. since we're on this topic a little bit. You talk about that. And when does insight beat out invention? You mean proprietary insights? Well, I think mostly, actually. Like if I look at some of the best businesses over the last 20 years, think about Airbnb. What is Airbnb? Other than$100 billion company, whatever it is right now. Airbnb is a guy who slept on a futon in 2009. I was like, you know, I think the sharing economy is going to be a thing. I don't know how he came up with that insight because I would have said everyone's going to steal everything. I think sharing economy is going to be good.

35:37Two, I think there are more people like me who feel this way, even though they don't know it yet. So I'm going to put a product in front of them and I'm going to build a business. That's what I call a proprietary insight. It's an insight that you glean from the context of your life or your job that could be, one, a path to a better way to do something or a promotion or your own business. And so the reason why I'm passionate about this topic is when you look at Shark Tank, America's world's favorite show in business, which I was lucky to be on, And everything is a patent or mostly an invention usually.

36:07Yes. And I think that causes people watching that saying, I don't have a good idea. Billion percent right. Right. And I think that's actually not the reality of the world. It's just Shark Tank isn't able to show the conceptual businesses. Like Airbnb couldn't have been on Shark Tank because they would have laughed them off the stage. Yes. Uber couldn't have been on Shark Tank. No, Uber couldn't have been Shark Tank. So I try to show people in the book, what does a proprietary insight look like? There's one great story in there, and I'll make this quick. Like Michelle Cordero Grant, great female entrepreneur.

36:33She was working at Victoria's Secret as the vice president of marketing. And she felt alienated from her own messaging saying, all this marketing seems designed to appeal to a man's aesthetic about what is beautiful for a woman. But does a woman have her own idea about what's sexy that maybe deviates? And so she said she started doing basically community sourcing of saying, what are some words you would use to describe your undergarments? And they said they prefer undies more than panties. And like there were all these little insights. So she dips her toe in the water to create a few products that she dropped, crushes her site overnight.

37:05This is 2015. Launches what's called Lively, this line with a totally different female aesthetic, and sells it for$100 million five years later. Love it. And that's a proprietary insight. It's not a business. You nailed it. So I gave words to these apps. What's fun when you have your own book, it's like a sociologist. I get to make up words. By the way, I want to jump in and say something here. this is so important what you're teaching right now because i i have a son who's going to be graduating college next year hopefully we'll play some golf afterwards but what am i going to do dad what am i going to do he doesn't really want to have a job the rest of his life although he's probably going to have to get one to support himself because i'm not taking at least he's talking to you though i got teenagers i don't talk yeah it's good to know that on the other side the other side 2021 you're smart and cool okay good great yeah trust me i know the other part too and um i keep telling him max most successful entrepreneurs are not inventors They have, and to use your terminology, it's a different term.

37:58They find insights. They find out how to make something that already exists better or they find different insights and breakthroughs that they have. And a lot of you listening to this that have a job and you're like, man, I would really love to become an entrepreneur. I'm not gonna invent an idea. Where are some places you can improve in businesses that already exist or insights you can find to do things differently? If you currently have a business that you want to scale, it may not be an entire new invention to scale that business. It can be insights into the marketplace place that you're already in.

38:25It is really only from a real entrepreneur that that type of insight is revealed. But I'd say 95 % of my most successful friends that are entrepreneurs had insights, not inventions. Now, I will say some of the big inventors are the really wealthy ones. Right. Really mega crazy wealthy ones. Right. Elon Musk kind of type of a deal. Right. But for the most part, it are people that come on the trail with different insights. Now, Now, you just said another term I want to ask you about. What kind of resource has industrial psychology been in your business career? I know that's a bizarre question. I don't know if you're going to ask that.

39:03But I'm curious about that. Well, anyone who knows, I get made fun of a lot for this because I'm being obsessed with it. But I'll tell you the genesis of why. When I was running the New York Jets, I had a pretty big job. And the CEO at the time wanted to promote me overseeing a huge swath of the business. But before we do that, we're going to have you meet with these industrial psychologists. It's going to be an all-day-long thing. Now back to the anxiety triggers and landlord-tenant court. I'd come this far, and now I have to talk to the shrinks, and I didn't want to be probed. I'm tough. And I remember I had to go into a fake company that they had created called Panda Corporation, and the CEO had just died that day, and I had to take over his email inbox.

39:39And they were going to monitor me. I'm painting a very terrible picture. They're going to monitor my behavior for the next 12 hours. And they had actors come in playing employees. It was like, anyway, the whole thing. Anyway, this is the best part. The report comes back and it comes out that I'm in the top 1 % of all executives. Yay, me. And of course, the owner of the team was like, this is self-serving and tossed it. So I did all that work. That didn't count anyway. But here's the part that I thought when I was getting close to my end of my tenure there, about to create my own company, I thought this is probably the last time I'll ever get real feedback from anybody.

40:09And I brought those same psychologists in to do a 360. And when the report came back, I was horrified that everything that I had thought I had concealed about myself was completely visible to anyone who spent any meaningful time around me. So there was this massive disconnect of me putting so much energy to conceal, manage, you know, show up a certain way. And it was on display. And I thought, wow, if I just give you, you know,$8 ,000 and you spend some time, you could give me the answer to somebody's wiring, including my own. And I became addicted to the feedback. And so my entire career, I bring in, you know, my partners, my industrial psychologist, and they help in different ways.

40:45They help someone feel safe so they can burn those metaphorical boats that have been holding back. I tell this story in the book, an amazing story, of a bartender from Ireland who had come to the United States and had hustled his way into these different businesses. I had bought his cybersecurity business, and he was struggling. His management style, unwilling to face conflict and turn over staff that wasn't appropriate for the job, couldn't do that. So he was a classic martyr, taking everything on his shoulders, and it wasn't scaling. And at the same time, he was taking on incoming at home, had a disabled child.

41:18It was all falling apart. And I tell a story in a book. He calls me one night and says, crying, I failed you. I'm going to resign. And I said, first of all, the call will be outbound. I'll make that call to you when it's time. It's not time. This was the moment I've been waiting for. I was like, let's go to work. I've never seen a transformation like this. I bring in the industrial psychologist. He goes ahead and goes, does the work, gets the report that's supposed to be private because it's very personal, excuses himself from the meeting, walks into a staff meeting in the next room and said, drops it in the middle of the table and said, hey, you might want to read this since you already know everything that's in it.

41:52And by embracing self-awareness and facing his demons and creating this culture of transparency, within two years, he sells the business for nine figures and changes his entire life. So I know I'm very evangelical about the importance of therapy and psychology because I think the greatest breakthroughs are within our self-control. And we tend to outsource our judgment to TED Talks and my book when the first stop should be you. Yeah. Right. Like, why am I not doing what I want to do? Why am I stuck? Why am I blocked? And by you and I talking openly about how we struggle or imposter syndrome, everything in the book, it creates space for somebody to look within instead of looking without.

42:30And psychologists, industrial psychologists can, if they're the right ones, can help you do it. Yeah. All psychology. You know, I really like you. I like you too a lot. Honestly, you, I watched your video. Those, you have to watch this video where Ed does this talk, 20 minute talk about the difference between suffering and pain. That is one of the smartest pieces of content I have ever seen somebody put out in this genre. Because I hadn't thought how to differentiate it. It is the pursuit of being uncomfortable, but you shouldn't suffer in that process. Suffering comes from not accepting it, that that's what's required.

43:04Suffering comes from not taking care of yourself, all these other things. And then talking about the prison of our own making. I literally watched her video and I thought, you could have saved me three years of my life. I didn't even need to write the book. Thank you, brother. No, that was my, I'm very efficient with my time. You told me that when you walked in. I did because you had me in tears. And I was like, this is so beautiful. And the mansion with the houses. And I literally, I had this longing of like, could have given me three years of my life back. Well, I feel like you're doing that for a lot of people here today as well.

43:31And what the point though, that you've made, and thank you for that, by the way, everybody go listen to it. No, it's true. It's one of my Thursday podcast releases. One of the, it's the first one. By the way, are you doing that? because even in this context, it's a little constrained because we're not getting the, right? That's what I, because I feel the yearning too. Sometimes I'm doing interviews and talks and I'm like, well, I want to give dissertations that I think can help. I think you should. This show originally was that format. That's how it caught on was me, you know, basically every single week coming up with some sort of content or topic to improve your life in some way.

44:01And then it morphed into doing more conversations with people that could do that. And just for me from self-expression, I want to be able to express myself and I'm different than I was eight years ago when the show started. I don't want to start to express myself again. However, you said something really important. One of those prisons is not understanding why we behave the way we do. It's one of the great prisons of life. So whether it's an industrial psychologist where you're doing therapy, where you just begin to pray and meditate and reflect and walk and think more about you and who you are internally, that's the prison we live in.

44:32It's like, look, I don't love all the things I've learned about myself. I don't love all of them. Same. But I'm really glad that I'm learning about me because that way I can contribute to more other people's other people's lives is really the is the game here. But becoming more self-aware, however, you might do that, I really believe is the key to prospering in your life. And it's just this taboo thing for some reason that I'm just going to consume things. Yeah. I'm going to consume a book, consume a podcast, consume alcohol, consume weed, consume a drug, consume porn, consume whatever there is out there.

45:04And somehow I'm just going to get through this life instead of starting to say, who am I? What are the patterns that I have? How can I approve? How can I begin to change some of my wiring so that I'm my life reflects the one that I know I was really born to have? And some of that's not tactics and strategies. It's reflection and audit to use the term you used earlier. Well, but maybe, though, if we think about it, this is what there's there's there's an effortless philanthropy about your messaging and how you put the words out there. We talked about this when we first started. It's because your motives are pure.

45:34But if we think of there's a whole culture around pushing consumption, so there isn't an advocate for the self, you know, and you are that you are. You are truly handing out information without an intention to force somebody to consume it. Right. Like, but most of the society is now this is sort of a whole culture about doing it. I had cancer. I wanted to talk about this. Yeah, I want to I want to because it dovetails to something you just said right now. So for those who don't know, when I was 32, I had testicular cancer. And my first reflex was concealment. Like when I look back at some of the behavior, it's so cringy because all I wanted to do was make sure that those of the Jets didn't think I was defeated.

46:15And it was like an us versus them instant. And I was on the brink of getting a big contract. And I remember meeting my HR director on a street corner so no one would see so I could change my beneficiary for my health insurance. Like real crazy stuff. And then I go through the surgery and I go ahead and I now feel incredibly vulnerable. Testicle is gone. It's a pretty violent act, right? And then I was like, how am I going to represent to the team and everyone else that I am not defeated? There's a dinner happening the next day with all the coaches and it's a macho culture. And I'm like, I'm going to show up to that dinner.

46:45I'm going to roll out my new motto that I just had made. And I go to this dinner. It's in the book, but spoiler alert. But I go to the dinner and I say, I have a toast and meanwhile, I have a bag on my groin, right? And I said, I want to tell you my new dog tags I just had made, half the balls, twice the man. Now, I do still love that phrase because I think it does. Well, it's owning it, right? I'm probably the only guy in America with a GED, a law degree, and one testicle. But I reflected on that moment not as one of heroism but as bad leadership because I realized that anybody who worked for me is actually going to have to have a greater suffering or trial than having a body part removed.

47:26or else you better suppress it because I showed up to work two days later, right? And that's actually terrible leadership. But the point of the story is more, I began to yearn for the time when I had cancer and I would go to Sloan Kettering because I felt such peace and relief. And I was like, now why? I wasn't self-destructive. Why did I enjoy that period? And it was because it eclipsed all worldly concerns and put me in touch with my mortality. I was like, why did I enjoy the awareness of my own mortality? And I realized how much of my energy was about filling the void to distract myself from why I don't know why I'm here, where I'm going.

48:01And then I embraced this app that's on my phone. It's called WeCroak. So five times a day, I'm reminded that I'm dying in very eloquent ways from Socrates and poets from, you know, it's always said differently and beautifully. But the purpose of that is when we get in touch with our mortality, it actually brings us peace. that a lot of the things we're worrying about every day don't hold up against the juxtaposition of death. And death is upon us eventually for everyone. And so it's similar to my point before about the work with the Vatican and whatnot. And so I'm doing research. The happiest people in the world are in Butan, and they remind themselves five times a day that they are going to die.

48:41And so I just wanted to talk for a second for anyone listening, thinking, ask yourself, how much are you actually subconsciously afraid of death? And when you actually confront it and be reminded of it, it makes you zero into the moment. And the present is the greatest gift where the happiness is found. It's where your spouse lives. It's where your children are. You know, it's where your joy is. And so cancer taught me that. And, and, but as time goes by, you know, I drift away and the app brings me back. So that's a plug for a crazy app that I have nothing to do with, but I just have on my phone that brings me a lot of joy.

49:10One of my favorite things ever said on the show. Really? Oh, thank you. I'm gonna tell you why. Um, I have, I, I'm a big believer, all goal books tell you begin with the end in mind when we set goals and I found sometime early in life I had the whole heart issue when I was like 30 what was the issue um some plaque accumulation already and I had an uncle that had passed away at 50 and so sort of an alarming thing and uh but I reflect on my own passing very regularly and and deeply and I have found that it is the one thing that causes me to be fully present now. Isn't that amazing? Yes. And that's why what you just said is so profound.

49:51And there's no advocate for it. Right. Even what we're saying right now, and others have said it, but it's not said often. It doesn't show up on Instagram posts, right? Right. That's why I talk about it, because it's so counterintuitive, and I am 100 % convinced it could bring you so much more joy. Even you and I talking about this right now makes me, I like it. This is fun. Me too. I'm present. I'm enjoying this interview. Yep. And my blood pressure drops in context and perspective. And by the way, I don't think about my death in the context ever of like legacy. I don't think of it that way. I don't think of like, what are people going to remember?

50:21I don't think about it at all. What I do think about is like, it just gives you perspective to what this time is and how precious it is and present it is and how really the things that we make into a big deal at that point in our life won't be. That's the benefit though. Like it's not, I don't know why there's no school of thought around this of saying, Hey, if you want to deal with your anxiety, the number one thing is to actually contemplate mortality. You're right. In a safe, peaceful, beautiful way, not in a morbid way. Yes. Like not the pain you're going to endure or how will happen or not legacy.

50:52Legacy is so irrelevant. It's almost that actually actually feeds the wrong impulse because you won't be cognizant of your legacy anyway. So who are you, who's representing you? Right. You know, a statue they're going to tear down in 20 years. Exactly. But anyway, I'm glad we're talking about it. I am too. Cause let me say something to you. It's never been talked about on my show. I believe the frontier of human behavior and psychology, we're gone to something right here. And the next level of our understanding of this life will be a healthy contemplation of the end of it more regularly and a culture that does that more regularly.

51:26We would treat each other very differently. We should start that. I mean, like we should, this conversation with maybe the reason we're in this room is to start that because I feel so passionate about it and I need more friends. My kids are like, the alarm goes on. The kids are like, dad, you're so crazy. But you get a little gift of it. You said about your mom's passing. God gives you a little glimpse of it and tries to tempt you with it when he gives you cancer. God gives you a little gift of it when you have a friend you love pass or when your mother passes or when my father passes. He's giving you that gift then because anytime someone else dies that you love, for a second, you reflect on your own death.

52:03It happens instantaneously. You almost feel guilty when you do it, but you do. And so there's these gifts throughout our life that should do even a divorce. There's a part of your divorce. You're like, Oh my, the end of my life didn't turn out the way I thought it was going to. It's a gift to just think about that time in your life. I had no idea we were going to talk about this. Well, it's interesting. And why don't we respond to it when, in those contexts, when somebody dies, this is almost a degree of lecturing about it. Like gather ye rosebuds while you may is a little bit warning, right? It's implicit in this, like, you're going to die.

52:35You're going to regret a lot of crap. Nobody's doing it in this context of like, it's actually very beautiful. It is beautiful. First, you're sad. A very, very close friend died not that long ago and it was crushing. And I just was, you know, but it did bring me back to like, let me honor him by celebrating the day, the thing that he no longer has, but we lose sight of it because we don't have a culture that reinforces it. So if there were actually a culture of it, it would be a lot easier because it would be within the rhythm. We're such outliers even having this conversation. So five times a day, like, let's just, everyone, could we just take a moment to recognize our death?

53:09It is a little bit extreme. Five times a day, you're going to die. You're going to die. By the way, just in case you forgot an hour ago, you're still going to die. But that's why the app is beautiful because the app, and I sometimes post them on my Instagram, no one even knows why I'm doing it. I'm just trying to populate the thought, But it's always in the abstract. It's beautiful. It's Descartes. It's, you know, it's just something that takes you a minute to unspool. Like, what's this related to death? I'm like, oh, you know. Well, I think the other thing that it does is that it causes at least me to go, man, I need to stop delaying my bliss and happiness now.

53:39I need to stop delaying the things I want to go do, the memories I want to make. I got to stop delaying the emotions I'd like to experience. Because I just think, here's the thing most human beings think. they think everyone else is going to die. It's not you, right? Except them. Wait, wait, I want to read you what's on my phone then. This is my screensaver. It just popped up and I was like, oh, right. Life is not lost by dying. Life is lost minute by minute, day by day, day by dragging day, all in the small, uncaring ways. Jesus. That's what I'm saying. It's not morbid. It's not morbid at all.

54:09It's actually beautiful. Thank you, Steven Vincent Bennett. I don't know who you are, but I love you. I love you. I love him too. And that's what my phone is at. What's the app called again? It's called WeCroak. Okay, We Croak. I think I've got to get on We Croak. All right, last question for you. By the way, I've enjoyed today tremendously. Me too. I bet you would do it again. By the way, everyone get Burn the Boats and go follow Matt Higgins on Instagram or anywhere else that you want to follow him. All of that you've achieved. So from that little boy who's, I picture not the selling the flowers little boy.

54:39I picture the boy cleaning up the bubble gum under the tables at McDonald's. and I picture this little boy trying to not let the world know that he comes from this place and he's got this mother who's kind of disabled at home and he's caring for her and just probably afraid and wondering what his life's going to be like. I picture that little boy. And then the whole journey, all the way to Shark Tank and the Jets and the Dolphins and partnering with Stephen Ross and your business in the beginning and all the different things that you've done and now public notoriety more with the TV shows and your book out and the friends you've made and VaynerMedia and all the other stuff you've been involved with.

55:15Has it been worth it? I mean, be honest too. I want the actual honest answer. Someone said, is going through everything you've gone through to get where you are, is it worth it? Or is the path of least resistance potentially more worth it? And do you ever wonder that? Do you ever look at someone who's led a much more simple life and thought to yourself, wow, I wonder which road was the right road. And I'm curious because I think a lot of people think about those things as they're listening or watching us today. The honest answer is I never question whether it's worth it, except if I have to make compromises as it pertains to the kids.

55:50It's my worst nightmare if my epitaph doesn't read therein lies a great dad who did the best he could, or if they don't ratify that epitaph. You know what I mean? And so that is the only moments because we all make choices. I so desperately want to get that right. But otherwise, I feel like it was 100%. I feel like I'm painting. I feel like this is what life is about and the striving and the perpetual pursuit of figuring out what I'm capable of. It's always felt very natural. And for me, why am I here? I am grateful that I responded to what I went through, not by feeling like, well, no one saved me, which a lot of people can feel like I had to do the hard work.

56:30My takeaway from watching my mother slowly die. And she died on the first day I became press secretary to the mayor of New York, which I put in the book to be like, there's no happy endings guaranteed. And no one came in and saved us is that I deliberately keep that experience very raw and unhealed. Like if we started talking about it, I would, I would weep like, and I'm a 48 year old man, like get over it already. I don't want to get over it because it was the most important thing I ever witnessed that if, if somebody had, had interceded, she didn't need to die. She was a great person. She was very smart.

56:59I didn't need to grow up in squalor, right? So the ameliorating of suffering is the highest and best use of my energy resources and power. So I have been on a mission since a little kid, cutely aware that if I could accumulate that authority, those resources, but if I stayed connected to the pain, I would always be empathetic and that would be a life worth living. So to be honest, it's all quite calculated because of that one moment. But that's why that one moment must stay raw and unhealed. So the answer is, is it worth it when I get those messages now from people who read the book and say, like, I know why you wrote it.

57:30I know what you meant and wanted me to feel, and I feel it, and I'm ready to do it. That feels incredible. When you're just talking, I'm just thinking, so far, life really well lived. Yeah, I hope so. I think so. Very intentional, at least, except for, you know, the anxiety and the, you know, but that's, we all have trauma. It's part of your trauma. I talk also, the other thing I want to talk openly in the book about, like, even Shark Tank having imposter syndrome on Shark Tank. If you saw the tape of me on Shark Tank, you'd say he's a natural, right? Just objectively. They said I was, right? They brought me back recurring shark.

57:58But I think that's a disservice. You know what I mean? So I have a choice to make. If I pull back the curtain and show you how I really feel, now you don't feel less than or other than. You can meet me there and we could go together and cross the threshold. My book is not an act of lecturing or teaching. It's an act of commiseration. And so I think it's a life worth living. It feels that way. The book, I can't see past the book now, which is weird for me. People say, what's next? I don't think there needs to be a next. I think this was the point. Well, I can tell you that it feels that way now, but that is probably not the thing.

58:30Okay, good. I can promise you. That's probably fatigue, right, Ed? You have fatigue, and you have too much momentum and too much to give, and you're growing, and you're too self-aware. Because in 10 years, you'll be a completely different dude there, an improved version of him sitting in front of me. I just hope we're both here in the 10 years to have the conversation. Me too. This has been amazing, by the way. Yeah. I loved today's conversation. Guys, this is why I do the show right here. This is why I do the show, conversations like today. It's why you guys share the show. It's the fastest-growing show on the planet for a reason, and it's because of all of you.

58:56But it's also because the people that sit in that seat deliver in ways that it's just supernatural when we do this together and Matt did it again today. God bless you all max out This is the Ed Milard show