Build Your Business Empire w/ Tom Patterson

23:37and if someone was going to change or disrupt the underwear category, I was like, might as well be me. If it's not me, it's going to be someone else. If it's not me and Aaron, someone's going to take that. And for me, it was getting into a place of financial freedom, the ability to have my own schedule. And, you know, I kind of looked at people that I admired and asked, how did you get here? What did you do? I've always been very curious about entrepreneurs. I'm obviously upset that you didn't have your radio show back in 2007 because I think I'd be further than I am today. I think you're fine.

24:08But I think for us, you don't really, for us, I'll speak for me, I didn't really look at it as a struggle at the time. I just felt that this is what entrepreneurs go through. And I think for everybody listening, if GPA equaled success in life, I would not be successful on paper. For us, it was, I think, just wanting more out of life. But I think with that, there came a lot of sacrifices. places family friends weddings missed um there's just places you can't go and there's this quote I don't remember who wrote it and I'm sure you've heard this like most people aren't willing to give up a couple years of their life to live a life that most people can't and it was on our refrigerator everyone times get tough I'd always look at that and it took a lot more than two years to get there but um I think I don't know anybody that has had to sacrifice nothing to get to where they are.

25:03But I think now when you have kids in a family, you look at the sacrifices differently. I think for me, it would have been more difficult had we had young kids those first six years. And I was traveling 150 ,000 miles a year at all over the world to factories, building factory relationships. I was either on a plane in stores or in our office. And you just say no a lot, right? Almost like a two-year-old. Nope, nope. Can't go there. I'd love to. And the things you turn down are like, man, I can't believe I'm saying no to these things. But I knew I just didn't want it to get in the way of where we wanted to go.

25:37Were these six, seven day weeks all at a time? Yeah, for sure. I mean, we didn't keep track of hours. You know, you work. Isn't that funny, by the way, when an entrepreneur tells you that? I'm like, you're not a real entrepreneur. I have not. I don't know what the blur when I was building my businesses between when I was working and when I wasn't. I don't even know how to make that distinction. I was just working. I was on all, if I wasn't doing it, I was thinking about it constantly. Like my first thought when I woke up in the morning was something involving that typically. Was it for you too?

26:03Oh, the moment never turned off. Right. And, but yeah, I think a blessing in disguise is, you know, we were told don't work with your wife. It will never work out. And it's been such an amazing experience to, to, to be with my wife really since day one, more so after the first year to build this business together. And for us, it's been balancing the conversations. All right, let's just not talk about work for an hour so we can eat dinner or do something. But by the way, that's my next question. If you want to keep going there, because you have built this with Aaron and a lot of people do ask me that, Hey, when do you draw a line?

26:37Cause a lot of times, like you said, your office was in your house. So a lot of times they're working in the same location where they eat dinner, where they do things married people do together at night, where like, is there, was there, was that stressful? And did you guys have any like hard fast rules about like after eight o 'clock or when we're laying in bed or anything like that where you like had a relationship outside of business for sure i mean there's flexibility and i think the goalposts and rules kind of change as time goes on but this is the visual 500 square foot apartment new york city tommy john world headquarters we're a three million dollar business we've got 110 pound bernice mountain dog marley in there mannequins a pull-out couch that people could sleep on.

27:20And then when we would have meetings in there, investors would come in, our marketing packaging, our closet, one bathroom. And then, you know, we'd have our marriage and us together too. And then, so everything happened in this 500 square foot space. And then we, you know, eventually got an office and a bigger office. So for us, I think it's always been that. So we don't know anything different. So we've had to figure out ways to work through and manage and balance that. That works for us. But a lot of times it's like, hey, it's Friday. Let's just two hours. Good. Not talk about anything work-related.

27:55And I think I was the one that would have a hard time turning off. Yeah. Right? And then Aaron would have a hard time turning off going through a season of that. But now I think 15 years in, I can't say we have a blueprint that works for everybody, like a one-size-fits-all. But we've found a balance that works for us. and probably you had to have had that too. Yeah, I think a lot of times post, especially if you're getting interviewed like you and I are, that you kind of make it sound like you were more organized about it than you really were. And so I think that was the honest answer. We didn't have these unbelievably hard and fast rules.

28:28It was like, actually, I'm doing a bad job of this right now. Let me fix this for a while. And then it would get fixed. I think life works like that. When you're on podcasts or you're on social media, it's like, let me give you my five rules. Well, you didn't really live like that. It's like in hindsight, you went these five things kind of worked. That's how life works, right? Like entrepreneurship, forget entrepreneurship. Life in general is like this messy moving thing that you're navigating all the time. Don't you agree? Yeah, I'm not the most organized person, right? There's people that are way more organized, but there was no weekly Sunday at 7 o 'clock.

28:59Let's go through. There was just too much going on, but we weren't. But yeah, to your point. One of the things that you have though done now, I want to ask you about this if you don't mind talking about it. we were talking about before we went live, is faith. And one of the things faith's done for me is it has kind of given me like some type of an anchor of like, well, at this time I kind of do this, or I'm going to listen to a sermon at this time, or whatever it is. It just gave, ironically, an ironic thing to say, but actually there's lots of things faith can give you in your life. But the irony is one of them for me was some structure.

29:37There was some structure like I now pray. I now read some scriptures. I now go to church. Like I gave a structure to my completely unstructured, crazy entrepreneurial life to some extent. So you're kind of getting deeper and deeper in your faith, you and Aaron are. But I'm wondering what role that plays for you now and what's it done for you? Yeah. Gosh, I think we, you know, we were talking about we had a similar maybe experience and how we were Christian-ish. but I think it's, it's reached a different level. And I think for us, you know, if we were to go back and look at our business each year over the 15 years, what were those moments where faith got us through, but we didn't even know it or see it or realize it, you know, these angels protecting us mentors that came into our life at the right time, reading that article about to start a company than during a recession.

30:26Like I think when you have a belief in a higher power, there's coincidence is kind of gets out of your vocabulary, right? It's, it's God working. And now I think it really, the, during those tough times, having a faith for, for us, it really fills the gaps and helps you get through. And I think for me, the structure of going to a church, seeing, you know, some of the most dynamic speakers that I learned the most from, and I'm typing on my phone are oftentimes pastors. And I think, you know, anybody that's in the faith world today, an entrepreneur, I think has that common thread. So for me, it's been just something where I've spent a lot more time, built more structure around my faith.

31:07And it's just, it's changed so much. I think of the way I lead, how we lead, not only our business, but our family and ourselves, you know, serving versus just working without a purpose. So to have that purpose now is something, if any entrepreneur that's younger, I wish someone would have spoke to me 10, 15 years ago and really drilled that into my head harder because there were people around me. But I think there's just this big movement now in the faith world where you're finding more entrepreneurs and people at your level being more open about it. And I think it's great. So do I. I'm proud of you for doing that.

31:43And I can see your faith on you. My guess is if I knew you, then you're always this really kind guy. But sometimes where you begin to know where those things come from it just becomes magnified and i can see it magnified on you and on aaron i'm really really impressed and proud of you um i mean that i'm really impressed and proud of you like i i knew when we met we're gonna be friends a long time we're gonna get to know each other very well can i just say one thing yeah you'll probably like this story so when i was five years old my parents were funeral directors and i was riding in a hearse next to a to a religious person and I was swearing and drawing on her.

32:20And every week my parents would run into them and said, how's Tommy? I was like four or five years old. He's good. Why? We've been praying for him. I had these group of Christian women praying for me when I was four or five years old. And I was a pretty bad kid for a period of time. And I've always felt there's been different people that say that to me along the way. Hey, I've been praying for you. About what? And they'll tell me. And I do think that there is a power within a prayer, whatever your belief is, whatever you believe in. And I think at moments where times are tough, then people pray.

32:55Let's pray now. But I think there's something about constantly praying that you've seen this. You do this for people. People that we know do this for others. There's just something about it that I think resonates and it sends out this vibration that people, you know, aren't aware of. and I think for me that's just that's been one of the really cool things about I think the last two three years for us that's one of the coolest things I've ever heard what you just said right there everybody should rewind that last two minutes that's one of the coolest things I've ever heard the way you just said that so if you have a kid swearing or drawing on people there's hope they can talk to me get some good folk praying for them as quickly as you can

33:38um okay a couple more things i want to ask you because i'm just fascinated by your story you're on the other side now you know you built this big old thing do you feel like you're on the other side and if you do a little bit it's okay by the way to like not have humility all the time what does it feel like when your dream and vision you're sort of stepping into it and almost walking in the life you had dreamed about at one time. Cause there's millions of people listening to this or watching this brother. They're like, I got a dream. I'm in that grind. I'm in that thing where I feel like an imposter.

34:14I'm in that deal, man. We're like, it's not quite clicking yet. And people are telling me I should get out or sell it or whatever. And then I know what it feels like at some point to like, oh my gosh, I'm actually kind of living this thing now that I had, it doesn't feel like it completely, but I had some of it. What do you feel like you're doing that now? and what does it feel like if you are doing that? I think for me, you know, there's a period of time where you're all fighting in water. There's a lot of blood and water in the water, a lot of competition. It's like how do you get from that red water to the blue water?

34:47And for us, I do think there's some separation we've created in our space, some breathing room. But part of me, I think I get uncomfortable when I get too comfortable. and we always talk about you know how do you get comfortable being uncomfortable and i think a lot of people reach a certain level of success and they kind of they start coasting and after you've grinded as long for a really long time i get it yeah but there's also something about i think constantly having that growth mindset the curiosity learning and having that be that going back to i think the rookie mindset and that's why i like being around people like like like a John Gordon, a Kobe Bryant, they're always bringing sports analogies.

35:29And for me, playing sports, it just resonates deeper. But when I think about those times maybe where our business is kind of like slowed, we got comfortable. And how do you keep that momentum going as you grow? But I don't know if I would ever say like I've made it. Do you worry it's going to go away? Go away? Yeah, because you lose it all. Do you worry about that? Do you live with that fear? I mean we'd really have to you might have to commit me somewhere if that were to happen if it happened I can tell the look on your face the answer is no you don't worry about that no I think you know God has a plan for me and our business but 15 years 4 % of companies make it 10 years or greater so we're less than the 4 % now I think we'd really have to make a pretty fatal move to do that you know what I want to tell you something I know why I like you I just figured it out watching you this is the biggest compliment i could probably give you you remind me of my son makes me i'm not gonna say any more than that because i'll start crying but like that's my favorite dude in the world and you remind me of my son gotta meet him yeah no you will i want him to meet you i think you'd be an incredible mentor for him your personality your vibe your humility but you're confident you're fit you're good looking you're you got faith you treat people well, you treat people kindly, you're very, very smart.

36:51You're this combination, bro. Like it's not, most people, everyone listening, it's not by mistake that they win. They acquire skills, they acquire thoughts, they, they expand on the good parts of their personality. There's just things about people that become successful that there's a recipe and a formula. They're different. But you've, you've maxed out and I'm not trying to use a pun, your talents, your giftedness, your positive personality traits. A lot of times in life and business, it's a matter of eliminating huge mistakes you could make, knowing the parts of your personality that don't serve you and really playing to the strengths of the parts of you that do serve you.

37:32That's what I see in you. And I'm sitting there thinking, why do I, I like this guy so much when I met him, you remind me of my favorite guy, which is my son. And so I just want to tell you that. Thank you. Thank you. I'm open to being adopted if you need. I can't afford you. I cannot afford you. I want to ask you a couple more things about this, though. In building this business, you know, you had to give up a lot of different things as well. But if someone was to start right now and said, hey, I think I'm going to become an entrepreneur. This is sort of an open ended question. I want to become an entrepreneur, but I'm not really totally sure where to start.

38:07This thing you said earlier in the interview about solve a problem, that type of thing. Do you think everybody is an entrepreneur or do you think that that's reserved for a certain type of person? That's a great debate. I mean, I, I think I have a different answer at five year periods. I think everybody has a million dollar idea. Um, I think some people are struggle with the discomfort and the uncertainty and being an entrepreneur is all about uncertainty. You have to be ready to move and pivot and change. And I, again, I'm going to go back to sports, like sports and being that Roomba vacuum and failing.

38:46And I had a coach that said to me, Tom, you're never going to increase your capacity to grow unless you fail. And if you don't fail, you're going to be an underachiever in life. So by not failing, you're not reaching your potential. And I think for me, I always got pushed and wanted to drive more, more, more. And I think seeing entrepreneurs and seeing the type of family and the type of life that they were living, it was really inspiring for me. I wanted more. I wanted to do more. I wanted to travel more. I wanted to be around different personalities. So for me, I think, it's a question, are entrepreneurs born or made?

39:24I think for me, it was probably born. I had lawn mowing businesses. Dude, I shoveled sidewalks and snow blowed sidewalks before basketball practice in high school. I would knock on doors and ask to do the mowing for the summer. So I always worked, and I was always curious about making, learning ways to make more money. But I would say for anybody here, I didn't have the perfect network. I didn't go to the perfect school. I didn't have the perfect connections. I didn't get the right internship. It was really people. I valet cars in Scottsdale. When I went to college, I sold cell phones at a kiosk and, you know, fashion square mall in Phoenix.

40:03But those people skills and interacting and understanding how to read nonverbal cues, that EQ part, I think, really prepared me to be in a position to see the signs or opportunity to start a business. And I think that there was a preparation through my childhood and through things I was involved in that allowed me to see those signs. Yeah. Yeah. So, and you know, but I didn't grow up in an environment of entrepreneurs. Me either. My parents weren't entrepreneurs. And you, you say this, um, middle class, I would say we were middle class, maybe at times lower or upper, but middle class is the hardest one to get out of.

40:39It is. And I oftentimes wonder how, how did I get out or why did I get out? And I don't, I wouldn't say, I don't know if I have the perfect answer. I don't know either. In my case, I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking of listening to you. You just said some more real brilliant stuff that I want to unpack there. but like I think like my dad wasn't an entrepreneur I don't know any entrepreneurs in my family my grandfather worked in a union right my grandfather was a printer so what does this come from I I remember when I was a little boy I had I used to sell sodas at the golf course and candy bars through the fence I had that little business when I was young then I had a baseball card business that had an auto detailing business so somehow as a little guy I was experimenting with being an entrepreneur and wanting to make money and wanting to expand.

41:22And then I, one thing I always had, I think you have too, I've always been fascinated with growth. And I think sports, to your point, sports gave me that competitive thing you talked about earlier. Sports gave me and you both the ability to deal with and accept failure. Almost like, of course, I'm going to strike out. I'm going to get out seven out of 10 times. Of course, you're going to miss a jump shot, right? You always miss something, right? Of course, I'm going to drop a pass or, you know, so I think that helped. But you said something earlier, man, that I have never thought of before, which is this notion.

41:53I'll probably say it wrong, but that to be successful, you actually have to become comfortable being uncomfortable. But then you said the reverse and it describes me very well. And you, I'm uncomfortable being comfortable. Now I got all the way the other way. It wasn't, my problem is not being comfortable being uncomfortable. My problem is I'm uncomfortable being comfortable or content. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it's like, man, I want that to be on some speech I give because that's a really profound thing that you just said right there and super describes me.

42:30What was the, um, what's a hidden huge benefit? I ask hard stuff. What's a hidden huge benefit of making your dream come true. Most people wouldn't know about forget just the wealth or you could travel. I mean, he could live anywhere in the world. This dude lives in South Dakota. So he's not like, you know. So what's it? No offense to South Dakota. Some of my really good friends are there. Hey, I told you. I invited you. There's parts you'll like. There are parts I'd like, but I'm not going there. I can tell you right now I will not be there in January. But I will go there with you. And especially the golf place that you described.

43:01We need to go do that. Having said that, though, what's a little thing that happens, and I'll give you mine after you give me yours, that you didn't think would be cool about making your dream come true that now is? I think, you know, there's, I'm still always surprised about how many people are aware of the brand. Gosh, it's so huge. Right? It still blows my mind, blows our mind that people are so familiar with it and wear it. And the types of people that we meet that are wearing it, that have not met us, that didn't know our brand values or beliefs and just found the product, it's connected.

43:36And it's just, one, it creates a lot of fun conversations. which we've had of just the underwear category by nature. But it's got us in a lot of rooms that I would have only dreamt of being in. And it's one thing to get in the room, but it's another thing to stay in the room. And I think there's, Jim talked about this where we were, like everybody in this room fought to get in this room, right? Jim Rome. Yeah, Jim Rome. There's this mutual respect for some of the rooms because a lot of people don't understand what it took or the sacrifices that were made to get in there. And it's like, man, it's not lonely.

44:12There's other people that have been here. Yes. Right? And I think when you're running a business, it's really lonely. There's not a plan. There's not a playbook. And for me, that's been one of the most exciting things to meet, honestly, like you, meeting your heroes. Thank you. Meeting people that have impacted you in so many ways and just not it being awkward. My grandpa taught me, he's like, treat everybody the same, whether it's the front desk receptionist, the janitor. They're all people at the end of the day. And I think for me, one of the gifts I've realized I have is I'm not intimidated by people, but I have a lot of respect for people.

44:48And people are like, how did you get to this level that you're at? I'm like, I've never been scared to ask questions. I've never been scared to send Kevin Hart some product and talk to him on the phone. at the end of the day there are real people that wanted to be be treated just like anybody else right nothing makes you more uncomfortable than being treated like like you're this yes fanning out and i think being around people and just getting to know them who they are behind closed doors um it's been i think one of the really cool exciting things about building a business but it wasn't the intent yeah that's just i think a side um surprise benefit of it i by the way i think You're right about that.

45:26And the thing is that I think what everybody, I want everyone to hear, and the reason I asked you the question is, there's lots of side benefits, to use your term, to making your dream come true that you can't imagine right now. And there will be lots of things. There will be an experience or a moment. Or I think for me, it's all the stuff I didn't calculate as I was doing it. Because I think when you have a dream, you kind of picture you in the dream. But for me, it was when I got to the other side of it and live it now, It's all the things I never dreamt of doing for other people or moments I could be there for somebody when they need me that I didn't calculate that.

45:59And if you would have told me back then, the reason I want everyone to hear this is, if you would have told me back then that you'd be able to do this, that, or the other thing for another person, I'd have worked even harder. I'd have taken more hits. I'd have gone through more pain if I knew that the dream wasn't just about me, but it's about all these other people, these lives you can affect and you can impact in small and big ways. If I'd have known all that was going to come with the package of winning, I'd have gone forward even harder and faster. I'd have gone bigger. I'd have done more.

46:25So I want everyone to know this. There's more that comes with making a dream come true that you can even possibly imagine. And as good as you think it's going to be, in many ways, it's a thousand million times better. But maybe not even in the way. Like having lots of money. It's cool, right? But it's probably, I don't think it's quite as cool as I thought it was going to. Not being broke is super cool, right? But being super rich, I don't, it's not quite as cool as I thought it would be. But other parts that come with it are for me. Is that the same for you? Yeah, I think once you've been poor and struggled, you want to do everything possible not to be there again.

47:03Yeah. Right. But I think you brought up a good point. It's something I want to talk to you a lot more about after this is, you know, this success, the significance transition that you've made, right? Had you made that earlier, right? And I think as you go on, how do you make sure you're impacting others? and I think they always say the people that you can help, you probably said this, the people you can help the most are the ones who are walking through the path that you walk through. And I think if there's one person I can reach today or 10 people or you can send this to someone that has a story that resonates with what we're talking about, that's really what people want to hear.

47:35And I think anybody that's listening, that's the beauty about podcasts and YouTube today. They're like these master classes and like Blinkist cliff notes on the stories. And I think a lot of people get caught up. I read this one, I heard this one, I listened to this one, but they're not taking any action. And the hardest part is people know what to do. The hardest part, I think, I keep seeing is just getting started. Yeah. You know, well, they did it this way. Like, let's talk about that for a second. Because you're right. Like, if I could figure that out, we'd have way more millionaires, way better marriages, way more parents raising wonderful kids, whatever it might be in life.

48:12Way more people creating cures for diseases. What is that thing that got, like, you just started? Like, if we go all the way back to the beginning, I'm thinking to myself, this dude has no fashion background. He's walking around selling these medical devices. All of a sudden, he wakes up and goes, I think we should have better undergarments. Like, what the? And then you go to the fashion district, and I know where that place is. That's not the most comfortable place to go. You make a couple freaking shirts with the Donald Duck thing on there, and now you're sitting in my studio with a brand that everyone that's listening to my show has heard of before.

48:48There's got to be a part of this. On the spinning earth, your existence on 2008, the dude you were, flash forward 15 years later, bam. It's got to be unbelievable to you. But you did get started, right? Do you think it's because you were naive and you didn't know how hard it was going to be? What do you think it was that got you started that holds other people back? Is it they want to be perfect? What is it? I just didn't want to play it safe. You know, I wanted to play it big and go big or go home. And for me, I wanted to take a big swing and see if I could do it. Right. I like getting out of my comfort zone and doing uncomfortable things.

49:28So I think when we started, that was really the mindset really to do it. But I don't know. I think everybody's different. I think some like this uncertainty or how it's going to be perceived or I don't want to live a life and like downsize. and go from two cars to one car. But if you're not comparing yourself to the others, the keeping up with the Joneses mentality, like I don't know anybody that's made it that didn't struggle, that didn't go through the tough times. And there are, I think, more exceptions than aren't. So I think for us that was really just the mindset that we had. I think there's something in you, bro, and I want to ask you this last.

50:06So I think you're stepping into it. But I think a lot of people are unconsciously competent. So I think you do lots of stuff really well, but because you and Aaron are both so humble, you don't even realize that it's a superpower. And even to this day, this guy's worth a ton of cheddar. He's got this big old brand. I guarantee you, having now known you a little bit, if I said, give me five things that you need to work on about you right now, you'd be like, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. If I said, give me five superpowers you have, you'd be like, let me get back to you. Let me send you an email.

50:38100%. Okay. And it's an interesting dynamic to you. Okay. But I'm going to give you one on you, and I think it's maybe sports. And I want you to speak to this last. So everybody, you learn this lesson from him, okay? I think that, well, I'll use my son as the example, and I'll let you finish with answering it. So my son wants to become, he's going to play golf. And if that didn't work, my son will go become an entrepreneur in sales or whatever. I've told him to have to get a job first because you've got to pay your bills. I'm not giving you the money to start a business. You need to start your own business.

51:07And one of the things he said, well, Dad, what would make me successful? So I said, look, Max, you got all of it. You got your growth, your kind, your good communicator, all those other things. I said, I don't even think it's maybe the most important thing. I said, let me tell you something. You better be able to deal with rejection. And this is something that is not talked about enough. I almost wish we talked about it earlier in the show. Your ability in life and in business to deal with rejection is a huge difference maker in your life. And I'm watching you. There's a way about you that it appears to me as if you just sort of accepted from the beginning that was going to be a part of this.

51:44And it's like that's the price of doing business. So speak last to those listening. How important am I right, by the way, that dealing with rejection and how you frame it, feel about it, and respond to it matters? And did that make a big difference, do you think, for you, in hindsight, that I'm pointing out one of your superpowers? Yeah. I mean, I think there's this, you know, when you're rejected, for me, there's naturally a chip on your shoulder, right? That underdog mentality, you want to prove people wrong. And I had that mentality for a period of time. But then I started shifting it. And it was more, I think this is really important, to prove people right.

52:22To prove people right, the ones that believed in you and no one else did. The Nima Marcus buyer, the Nordstrom buyer that gave us that shot. like you really appreciate those early ones who believe in you where most people don't and I think that really fueled us but even now like we have buyers calling us to carry their product I'm like you said no you wouldn't even return our email or phone calls like when I was emailing you not the matters that the CEO is emailing you so that's I mean it's great and we'll certainly have those calls now but things change but I think for us if everything comes easy and you have like this really easy path to success, I think it's a bad thing.

53:07And I think there's a glad, like you don't have that strong, stable infrastructure and foundation. And I think you have to build a foundation to grow. And a lot of times comes through hardship and failures. You know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And that's certainly been the case. But I mean, there's been so many times where I could have hung it up and quit or sold when that investor said we should sell it. But I think the brands that fight and get there, there's that appreciation once you get there and that gratefulness where it's humbling to be there finally. Like it took longer than I thought, but, you know, we're here.

53:44And then, you know, our disease is what's the next thing. Yeah, what's the next thing? I don't think it's a healthy disease, by the way. I think your heart's doing that right now. What's the next beat? Your breath and lungs are doing that. What's the next breath I'm going to take? Yeah. And so I think that that's, I just want you to know, coming from someone who's a little bit further down the road in age than you, I don't think that that's, I think it's unnatural to not know what's next or to ask what's next or to be curious about what's next. I think it's completely natural. I think what is unnatural is somebody walking around this earth who's not curious, who's not interested in the next thing.

54:19Because their internal body is, their heart's asking for the next beat, their lungs are looking for the next breath. and so I think it's completely natural to do it and I'm really excited to see what is next for you do you have any idea what it is I don't you know I think we like where we are with our business I'm having I'm just meeting a lot of really exciting people I think in the giving world that you talked about that is really where a lot of my passion is in addition to the business But I would say, you know, I've never had a very clear plan. I go in a direction. And, you know, John Maxwell says this a lot of times, the answer's in the action.

54:58And I totally believe that. You've got to go and try and see. And then, you know, the formula kind of molds as you go. I've never been the person's like this is exactly what I'm gonna do I don't get that clarity being spoken to me a lot of times, but I think I like to speak to people to see how they framed or how they thought about certain decisions in their life At the time that they did it and kind of learn and kind of put my own formula and recipe for it So I think you know, whether we sell a business whether we go public I think that that's i'm not in charge of that you know we know who is and we'll just follow follow the plan but i think for now we're just super excited blessed to have the business be where we are and you know want to continue i think for me it's you know i don't want there to be a finish line where i stop learning i stop growing and i atrophy you know i i think you always want to be learning and developing and building different muscles for me i think it's just becoming continuing to be well-rounded in areas and kind of taking on those weaknesses and focusing on parts that really, I think, push and activate.

56:05And I think with the goal of just continuing to find things I'm passionate about, I think for me, last thing I'll say is like, I'm very conscious of things that take my energy and things that energize me today. Like very sensitive, I think more and more sensitive than I've ever been before. So I'm, I'm thinking through and working through that now. and a lot of the things I do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. I'm hoping that kind of frames what's next. But I would like to help other entrepreneurs, whether it's investing, advising, mentoring. I think there's, like you said, there's a lot of knowledge we have learned along the way where I think we can help them avoid some of the, you know, the potholes that we rode through.

56:46You did that today, just so you know. What you just described, you did that today for millions of people. There is, I want to say something to you. First off, thank you for today because I promised a master class in the beginning. And although we didn't raise our voices a lot, we went point by point by point by point by point with one of the great iconic entrepreneurs of our time. I'm really glad I got to share this time with you. There's a – I want to say something to you. There's a lesson in everyone listening to you. There's a dignity and an elegance and a grace and a quietly confident humility about the way that you communicate and you express yourself.

57:23It does not surprise me at all that you and Aaron have become this successful. It's obvious to me why. And I also think the fact that you're not super rigid in your ideology or super rigid in what the outcome or the goal is. You've got this thing where you're super competitive. I want everyone to hear this because I'm describing traits. You're very, very competitive. You're incredibly excruciatingly hardworking. You're goal-oriented, but you're nimble and flexible to let things flow to you the way they need to or flow you in a direction you're supposed to go. You're open and curious to learning and course correcting as you go.

57:55These are really profound lessons from an entrepreneur. So not only did I get ideas by picking your brain, the way in which you deliver thoughts and the way that you think is a master class in and of itself. So really thank you for today. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. Yeah. This was so good. This is awesome. Yeah. You guys, I already know you're thinking and I want you to share. Where do you want them to find you? Where do you want them to go? Do you want them to go to TommyJohn.com forward slash Ed? I don't know. I'm kidding. I'm back on Instagram. Okay, what are you on Instagram? I am Tom Patterson.

58:24I am Tom Patterson on Instagram. Yep, I am Tom Patterson. It's up on the screen we've got here. Okay, guys, go follow him. Go get the power of one more of my book. Make sure you're sharing this show. It's the number one fastest growing show in the world for a reason, because I bring you people like this guy. And we don't have interviews. We have conversations here, which is why we go deeper, I think, than anywhere else on the planet in getting you information and inspiration. God bless you all. Max out. This is the Ed Milad Show.