How Elizabeth Smart Transformed Trauma Into Purpose

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2:19this is the Ed Myron Show welcome back to the show everybody So today's a special show. I've wanted to talk to this woman for over a decade. I wanted to talk to her before I even had a podcast because her story is unbelievable. Most of you know who she is, but those of you that might be a little bit younger, you may not. So let me give you a little refresher. June 5th, 2002, my guest was kidnapped at knife point from her bedroom in Salt Lake City, Utah. by a guy named Brian David Mitchell. And his wife, Wanda, helped a little bit too. And she ended up in captivity with these people for nine months, during which she was often moved all over the place.

3:01She suffered every type of abuse you can possibly imagine during those nine months, every type you can imagine. And I remember watching thinking this little girl is gone. I remember thinking she was gone. And then shockingly, in March of 2003, Elizabeth was found and rescued in Sandy, Utah, only about 18 miles from her house. And since that time, spoiler alert, she's lived an amazing life of contribution. She's turned that tragedy into something just absolutely miraculous. She is the founder of the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which we're going to talk about today. But when you talk about resilience, toughness, a comeback, whatever you want to call it, there's probably nobody on earth I'd rather talk to.

3:46And I mean that than this woman about those topics. And so Elizabeth Smart, finally, welcome to the show. It's great to have you. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here. Well, good. And by the way, guys, on YouTube, she's smiling, which means she is really, really happy to be. She's got a cold today, but we're going to power through. any of you going through have gone through any type of trauma in your life probably difficult to compare to hers but you've gone through trauma or you're just going through a hard time right now and you need some resiliency skills and some comeback skills we're gonna we're gonna go through those things today so I don't even know where to begin but I think what I want to do is at least go back a little bit but I want to spend the majority of the time on what you're doing now but I want to go back just a little bit and I'm wondering the day you get abducted if you could go back to yourself at 14, Elizabeth, if you could even put yourself there again, what would you say to that little girl as she's got to be terrified and scared of being whisked away?

4:43What would you whisper to her if you could go back and say something to her? That's a good question. There was nothing that could have prepared me for that moment. There wasn't anything that anyone could have said leading up to it that would have altered what happened or, I don't know, changed how I reacted because I had lived such a sheltered life. I had, you know, never experienced like anything bad. I came from a loving family. I lived in a nice neighborhood. I lived in a nice home. Like this was just something that was so far removed from anything that had ever happened to me. I don't think that there's actually anything, uh, that could have prepared me, But I think if I was going to say something, I would tell myself, don't give up.

5:31You will survive this. Just make it through every day as it comes. Every day, one day at a time. It's interesting. Anything traumatic, like that adage works. I can't possibly imagine what one day for you was like as a little girl. I'm just having a daughter, just, you know, missing your mom and dad, the abuse that you're taking daily, wondering if it's ever going to end or you're going to be found. Was there a point, and by the way, it would be completely acceptable. I'm just curious, was there a point where you no longer believed you were going to be found and this was going to be it forever?

6:06Did you eventually just kind of give into that as a reality? There were definitely moments where I thought that this might be my reality until my captors died, which like in my mind at the time, I was like, that could be another 30 years. So I felt like there was a good chance I would outlive them. But like being rescued, making it home, like it felt like it was far away. Yeah, there were plenty of those times. One thing that's just mind blowing to me about that time. And again, guys, we're going to shift into the tools and the things she's accomplished since and what she's learned. But one thing that blew my mind about this story, because I'm watching it as a young man.

6:47And I'm thinking this little girl's gone. Most, you don't find someone in nine months. Right. And, and then to learn later, these people like walked you into town several times. Like you were right there near, even a, I think a police officer actually pulled your guy over. Did he not like you were that close to being rescued multiple times? Most people don't know that part of the story. It was very close. And actually that's probably one of the more common questions I get asked is, well, why didn't you run? Why didn't you scream? Why didn't you say anything? And I feel like it's important to address that because I feel like, although my experience is different from many other survivors, this instance is very common.

7:28I mean, we see it in domestic violence situations where people are like, you got a car. Why didn't you just drive away? Your husband was beating you. Why didn't you just leave? It's never just as simple as like getting in the car and going away. For me, it wasn't as simple as like just screaming out and be like, I'm Elizabeth the smart come save me as much as I wanted to. I had already spent months in captivity. I'd already been through huge amounts of abuse. And I had been threatened repeatedly that if I said or did anything they didn't want me to do, that they'd kill me, that they would kill my family.

8:04They felt like they felt invincible to me. he'd bring back missing posters of the search efforts for me he'd talk about how salt lake city was just covered in my face and there were blue ribbons everywhere tied around trees all in my remembrance of me and he'd just laugh about it he'd be like all of salt lake is looking for you but no one will ever find you because i have you and that felt like that was the truth and so he really he really did feel like he was invincible and when he made threats they were not idle threats and the threats that he made he followed through with enough of them that i truly believe that he would kill me or that he would kill my family if i didn't do exactly what he said now as an adult and like having been in this space in hindsight when i speak to survivors i often talk about how like parents should talk to their children and be like if anyone ever tells you to keep a secret you need to tell me and if anyone ever says like we will get hurt that's not your job to protect us our job is to protect you um and so trying to keep those lines of communication open I think are so important but that burden was also very heavy on my shoulders I felt like it was my responsibility to protect my family.

9:24So I did what I was told. I just had a friend. It's ironic that we're talking. Um, I have a female friend. She's just incredibly strong woman. Like she's like a, like a bad-ass, you know? And, uh, and, uh, but in her first relationship, her first, uh, relationship was abusive. She lived with a man who was abusive and it's almost impossible now for me to picture her staying to your point. Like, why'd you stay? And she said a couple of things. She said, well, one, your identity is completely stripped of you. So you're not thinking in a way of a strong person that's been taken from you. And she said, the other thing was these threats he made, I believed them.

10:04And I think this judgment that we have, any of you listening to this today that are in a relationship that you know, you need to get out of, maybe you're in it, you're afraid to leave because there's physical abuse. Maybe they've emotionally abused you to the point where you don't love or believe in yourself anymore. Maybe they've stripped your identity from you. Maybe you're afraid to leave because financially you can't afford to be on your own. Maybe some of you in a relationship that you aren't going to leave because of the social judgment of what people are going to think that you didn't make it as a couple.

10:34If you could talk to someone, Elizabeth, who's in some varying degree, because there's degrees of everything, of a toxic to all the way up to physically abusive relationship, and they know in their heart, this isn't where I belong. I don't belong here. Clearly you didn't. What would you say to someone who's in that spot? Yeah, I want them to know they are so strong. They are so strong that they can do hard things. And it's going to be hard. It is going to be scary leaving the abusive relationship. It is going to be difficult. It's not going to be easy, but it is going to be worth it because there are so many good people in this world who want to help who have built organizations and companies and offered programs around trying to help survivors get out of these horrific situations and unfortunately not everyone is always blessed to be born into a supportive family but these people that you come into contact with you find your family you choose your family and so do not give up you're so strong you can do hard things and and you deserve to be happy you don't deserve to be in pain you don't deserve to be hurt i remember when you got rescued i'm just gonna speak candidly i have an hour with you and i remember when you got rescued i was thinking first of all i couldn't believe you were rescued because everyone thought you were gone and then i remember going i mean i'll just be candid she's gonna be a mess there's just no way that nine months, what she's gone through, there's no way she's going to become a functional contributory person.

12:15Bless her heart. I felt only empathy and no hope when I thought of you. I'm saying that candidly because I think that was probably what the majority of people thought. I'm curious about one, the day you were rescued, what those emotions were like, if you could even remember. And how did you, I mean, listen to you with the foundation and smart defense and a couple books and all the stuff. And by the way, a loving marriage and family you created of your own. The broad question first, then we'll get specifics. What was it like the day you were rescued and how in the world have you turned out the way you have?

12:52The day that I was rescued, I mean, it was a roller coaster. Like it, it was, it was scary. I didn't always know what was going on. But ultimately, at the end of the day, when I finally made it back to my home, I felt like everything that had been taken away from me had all of a sudden been given back. And I just remember feeling like I never wanted to miss out on anything ever again. I felt like I'd already missed out on so much. And so I wanted to like I wanted to live my life. I wanted to do all the things that I had ever dreamed of because those had felt like they'd been taken away from me.

13:27And I just, I just didn't want to miss out on anything. So that was how I felt the day that I came home. And then, sorry, what was your second question? Well, how did you, the broad one, because we're going to get specific to what you teach in a second. But like, how the heck did this turn out so well? Was it intensive therapy, prayer, the combination of all of the above? I mean, we're going to go through your steps in a second. but just broadly speaking, it's unbelievable how seemingly not just normal, but exceptional your life has become. I think a lot of it had to do with the way I was raised.

14:07I did grow up in a very loving, solid, secure family. I never doubted as a child whether or not I was wanted or whether I was loved. I always knew that. I think that really made the difference for me because when I came back that didn't change my family still treated me the way that I'd always been treated and as I look back on what happened I chose not to go to therapy after I was rescued because I did not understand what therapy was in my mind it was just like it was going to be going to someone who couldn't possibly understand what I'd been through and rehashing everything that I'd been through and I remember just thinking in my mind well why would I want to do that I already survived it nobody was there beside me while I was going through all that it would have been nice to talk to someone while I was going through that but but I'm not going through that anymore so why would I want to talk about it with someone who couldn't possibly understand what it was like I was there That was my very uneducated thoughts around therapy at the time.

15:21So I didn't want to. Of course, that scared my parents. They were very worried about me. And so they actually went to therapy. And their therapist was like, it's OK. Like, it's OK. She doesn't want to go to therapy. That's fine. um both of you need to make sure that you are in a place that if she ever decides to talk about what happened you can listen to her and be there for her without crumbling yourselves so actually they did go to therapy that's so interesting and not not you did there become a this is where i wanted to go but did there become a time where you did want to talk about it or is that just that time's never arrived you just dealt with it internally um no i never wanted to talk about it wow but then when my case finally came to trial yeah it's a little bit i guess of a longer story initially my parents were told that if i would talk to these two psychiatrists that they could stand as proxy for me as witness for me uh in the trial so probably the day after I was rescued I went to the children's justice center I was brought into this room with these two psychiatrists and uh they were they were men they were roughly the age of my captors they were um clearly clearly religious which like that's fine um like good for everyone or like believing whatever they want to believe in practicing it being dedicated to it but But having come out of a situation where religion was used to justify every kind of torture they did to me, that just was not a very comfortable situation for me and being alone in this room.

17:16And then, you know, they did question me extensively. Again, like I'd grown up in a bubble. I had lived an incredibly sheltered life. um i i mean you know my parents didn't just like throw around uh the words penis vagina breasts i mean they were your privates that was how it was referred to those are your privates and so all of a sudden having to go into great graphic detail and use those those words penis vagina that was very uncomfortable and difficult for me um and because they were psychiatrists i thought oh this must be what therapy's like no thank you i never want to do this um my case really got stuck in the courts um there was always a question of of competence or versus incompetence were they competent right now could they prove that they were competent when they kidnapped me um they would need to be forced to medicate i mean it was just like a whole big mess to the point where the statute of limitations actually almost came up um within the state courts and so then i was approached and asked if i wanted to move my case to the federal courts and of course i wanted to move my case to the federal courts if my captors got out like they would come back after me i have no doubt they would have come back after me so uh my case was then moved to the federal courts and it was i mean the better part of a decade before my case actually made it oh my god oh my gosh um it was of course by then um the two psychiatrists they were no longer allowed to testify for me I was an adult by then and so I had to testify myself and that was the the interviewing with the prosecution preparing for the trial was the first time that I really went into detail about what happened and um on the stand that I guess was about as public as I had ever been um talking about what happened and in that moment I just felt like all of this like all of my story everything that I'm talking about is um is coming across like facts just like bullet points and this is my life and it's more than just bullet points and if I'm going to share like the worst moments of my life it means it needs to be more than just entertainment or it needs to be more than just a court case and so that's really when um it was after that that we started the Elizabeth Smart Foundation it was after that that I started publicly speaking and sharing my sharing my story unfortunately sexual violence is is so common is so high like I know without a doubt anytime I speak that I am not the only survivor in the room wow so like whenever I'm invited to speak it doesn't really matter who the audience is because statistically I'm not the only survivor in there it's unbelievable first off I did not know that it that it took a decade I didn't know you confronted, you know, the abuser in court.

20:58I think it would surprise most people listening to this right now, Elizabeth, that first off, that they put a little girl one day later in with two dudes that look just like the guy that abducted her. I mean, that's more abuse in my mind. So that's shocking. But the other part that's probably pretty surprising, I think you would agree, was that you really didn't talk about it until you were on that stand. That's surprising to people, that you didn't do therapy, that you didn't talk about it. That would be not what most people would guess. And I want to talk about the Elizabeth Smart Foundation in a second, but I want to connect it to what you teach because I want them to understand the value they get from it.

21:32So, hey, guys, I want to jump in here for a second and talk about change and growth. And, you know, by the way, it's no secret how people get ahead in life or how they grow and also taking a look at the future. If you want to change your future, you got to change the things you're doing. If you continue to do the same things, you're probably going to produce the same results. But if you can get into a new environment where you're learning new things and you're around other people that are growth oriented, you're much more likely to do that yourself. And that's why I love Growth Day. Write this down for a second.

21:57GrowthDay.com forward slash ed. My friend Brendan Brouchard has created the most incredible personal development and business app that I've ever seen in my life. Everything from goal setting software to personal accountability, journaling, courses, thousands of dollars worth of courses in there as well. I create content in there on Mondays where I contribute, as do a whole bunch of other influencers, like the Avengers of influencers and business minds in there. It's the Netflix for high achievers or people that want to be high achievers. So go check it out. My friend Brennan's made it very affordable, very easy to get involved.

22:28Go to growthday.com forward slash ed. That's growthday.com forward slash ed.

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23:55They even attribute that to people like myself who grew up in an alcoholic or drug addicted family. There's, again, varying degrees. And you talk about post-traumatic growth. What does that mean? Like, what's it mean to you personally post-traumatic growth um me like if i'm just going to explain it using my words yeah when going through something really hard i feel like you you have a choice to make um i think it's a very very difficult choice and i don't think it's just like flicking a switch it's not like on and off but basically you choose do you allow what's happened to you to crush you or do Do you use that as a propellant to push you forward and to live your life to the fullest, to do something greater than what you ever imagined beforehand?

24:50So me, it's pushing yourself forward. It's not letting it stop you from living your life. I had this thing I say on a lot of my content. I say, you're most qualified in life to help the person you used to be. And I just really believe that. I think God takes us through our darkest and most difficult times or even the things we're ashamed of or embarrassed of or sins or mistakes we've made and wants us to use those things to serve the people that are similar to us, that are like us. One of the things you guys about the foundation, I'm like, oh, that's great. She's got a foundation. Everybody's got a foundation.

25:23That's cool. She's got a big brand name. But if you actually really look into this foundation, you guys, the work they do is tremendous. Like it's the real deal. And even on how to learn to defend yourself through smart defense. Like it's, there's teeth to this. There's actual tangible things you would learn and go through. I would ask you about forgiveness. And I wonder, do you ever get there? Forgive yourself, forgive them. And what that concept means to you. And does it matter in life? So I think, I think forgiveness, maybe my definition is a little different. I don't know. But I don't think forgiveness is necessarily like, oh, what you did is okay.

26:12Like, it's all right. I mean, at the end of the day, like kidnapping is always going to be kidnapping. Rape is always going to be rape. And there's no world that exists that I'm ever going to think kidnapping someone is okay or raping someone is okay. I think forgiveness is really more for me. and I think it's more just the letting go of the anger over what happened more than anything else I actually think probably forgiveness is is probably the greatest form of self-love that you can have for yourself because you love yourself enough that you aren't going to let whatever you've experienced ruin the rest of your life you are like you've felt the anger you've you've processed it you've gone through it but then you're also able to leave it alone and move forward and to me that's what forgiveness is so do i feel like i've forgiven my captors yes but i never want to see them again i never have anything to do with them again oh i could happily live the rest of my life and never like never think of them or have anything to do with them or see a picture of them ever again that would be just fine with me i imagine that might be one of the most perfectly said things ever uh said on the show the way you just described that concept that was that was awesome here's what i didn't know i want to ask you about it because you're you've become an expert on this stuff how does trauma reshape your brain, like literally, because I know you've done a little bit of looking into this.

27:56How does trauma reshape your brain? And then how do you reclaim your power when you've lost all of it? Like you've just, you've got no power in your life. You're powerless completely. Are those two things connected? It's reshaped your brain. So you don't think you're powerful anymore. Like how does it affect your brain? And how do you get some sense of power back? I mean, I think everything's connected. And what's really interesting about trauma is that when you go through something very traumatic, like if you look at me, I don't have any like physical scars from when I was abducted. Like I don't have any knife wounds or like, I mean, I was never stabbed with a knife, but the knife was held to my neck.

28:34Like I don't have any scarring on my neck. I don't have, I don't have any like physical markers on my body that would show to you that I went through something traumatic. And probably if you didn't know me at all, and you just met me, you wouldn't think that I ever had a hard day in my life. But guess. But if you actually look at the brain, so I went and had a brain scan in Dr. Amen's clinic fall. And there is actually there are physical markers that show up on your brain, when you've experienced trauma so it shows up in a diamond pattern and the diamond pattern did show up in my brain um so there are physical markers on your brain left by trauma so even if you don't have scarring or broken bones or black eyes um trauma still leaves its mark and yes i i am not the expert he is i'm not an expert um but my understanding is that yes it does very much and can affect like how you process things and decisions you make moving forward.

29:46That's not to say that you are less than or impaired. It just affects you, which makes sense. I mean, all of our experiences affect us. If you had a really bad experience walking home at night in the dark, you might not want to again. Like that makes sense, right? And so, yes, it does affect us. This is personal, but I want to know if you don't mind, because you've not talked about it a lot. And your relationship with your husband is personal. So I'm not going to go there. Do you flashback? Will you be driving in the car and have a moment? And then if you do, I'll give you why I ask. In my little tiny speck of a way, it's not even in the same universe as what you went through.

30:30I will flashback sometimes to some pretty difficult moments when I was a

30:38I'm wondering if you in a random moment or a trigger will flash you back for a second and if if it doesn't happen wonderful if it does is there something you do to flip the switch so to speak out of that state um well there's two two parts to the question or two things that I want to address that you said um one of the things you said oh like I don't want to get into your relationship with your husband but that is actually also something that is very commonly asked surprisingly enough like you were raped how could you then be intimate with your partner and that is actually a space that i very much would like to move into in the future with really smart foundation because so many survivors first of all i want to establish that sex and healthy intimacy are different they're not the same thing um and then i want to like i want to have the conversation and like explore with survivors, how do you move past that?

31:42That is a future project I very much want to do. We don't have anything yet, but that is something I feel very passionate about because everyone deserves to have a full life. Everyone deserves to feel loved and adored and taken care of. And they should know that abuse is not like healthy intimacy and healthy intimacy is not rape um like you should be able to have a very clear uh separation of those two and so if a survivor has gone through like they deserve to find some love with someone else and to feel taken care of so that is something that's major work you'd be doing there that's tremendous yes that's tremendous i very much want to get it yeah i love it um do i ever have flashbacks and how do I deal with it I wouldn't say that I struggle with them a lot they happen occasionally where I'm just like oh oh my goodness like that that reminds me that that kind of takes me back but um that's I guess when I kind of look at myself and I say okay like that does remind me of that i don't really like that but like i am here i am in this moment i am sitting in my home or my car or my office like whatever i'm like i try to bring myself back to the current moment and then like acknowledge what happened but be like okay that happened that's a thing but i'm here i'm not in that moment anymore i'm amazed by you like i hope I assume everybody listening sort of like me.

33:28It's like, I'm just processing you. Since you brought your husband up and we're allowed to go there, I want to lean into that just for a second. You married an Irishman, didn't you? Am I right about that? A Scott. I am. A Scott. Close. I knew he had the accent. So you married a Scott. I'm curious, was it difficult initially to trust a man again? Like for me, well, I won't say for me. You tell us. You tell us. Was it difficult to trust a man again? And did it take a long time to establish that? I was scared of older men. I was scared of men around the age of my captor. I didn't want to be left alone with them.

34:10That was scary to me. But I wasn't scared around like boys my age or men my age as I got older. um and I I think for me it was always very it just felt like there was a difference because I could say no or I could walk away like I wasn't completely helpless or powerless and I think that made a really big difference for me if I was asked that on the date I could say no if I didn't feel comfortable or I could uh set boundaries for myself and and so it was like the power was in me like I made the choices it wasn't I think if I came back home and it was like arranged marriages were a thing and being married off to someone you know my dad's age and I had no power or no say in anything I think that would have been that would have been very difficult to overcome I don't think I'd be where I am today had that been the scenario but because everything then coming forward and moving forward with dating and eventually meeting my husband and getting married that was all on my terms like I always had the option to walk away at any point I mean I wasn't chained up I wasn't forced to be there it was always an option and I think for me that's what made the difference.