How to Stop Defining Yourself by Your Failures Feat. Dr. Nate Zinsser

0:00And we're live on Match Day as Doug reaches for a Buffalo wing. He's got it! Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi, too! What a finish! There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match Days deserve Pepsi. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom-scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer.

0:36Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

0:45This is the Ed Myland Show. Hey, welcome back to the show, everybody. So this week, I want to get right into it. We're going to talk about self-confidence, and this is not your normal self-confidence podcast. you know with the normal platitudes that you hear a million times about how to build self-confidence this is going to be different and the reason it's different is because of my guest you guys know i curate guests that i believe can bring something to the table that haven't been at the table before for so many of you and dr zinser is absolutely fits that criteria let me tell you why he's the director of west point's performance psychology program where he trains u.s military academy cadets and leaders, how to operate effectively, frankly, how to build their own self-confidence with some of the most important people in the world.

1:28He's also worked with Olympic athletes, pro sports teams, kind of Eli Manning stands out to me because he beat my Patriots twice. So I definitely have to dive into that one. And obviously corporate leaders and elite military leaders as well. He's got a great book called The Confident Mind, bestselling book as well. This is going to be a unique conversation. It's going to help you get more confident. So Dr. Zinzer, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me on it. I'm really looking forward to this. He's also medicated. He's eight days out of knee replacement surgery. I'm just kidding.

1:59I'm only medicated with acetaminophen, so there will be no drowsiness. There will be no slips of the tongue. There will be no embarrassing references made. Outstanding. And by the way, it's okay if you do. It gets us more downloads, so feel free. So let me ask you a question. I want to start out just basis, just for kind of laying a foundation, just because I'm curious myself too. Tell me about your work at West Point. I've never been allowed anywhere near the place, so I would just like to know what your work's like there. Well, you've got to come pay us a visit. The Military Academy is an extraordinary institution.

2:32Every year, 4 ,000 young men and women from all across the country and from at least a dozen foreign countries train in a very rigorous curriculum, including academic training, physical training, military training. after that 47-month experience, these young men and women are graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree, and they are commissioned as second lieutenants in the Army. They serve a minimum of five years. Some of them go on to serve 10, 20, 30 years and reach very high ranks in the Army. Others leave after five or 10 years and take leadership roles in the private sector and civilian governance.

3:15My work at Wallace Point, 30 years directing a performance psychology program, was to take what we knew from sports science about the intangibles of human performance and take them out of any kind of mysterious or intangible framework and reduce them to learnable, practicable skills. So we were teaching cadets the how to remain confident when the crab hits the fan, which it always does, how to be focused on what's important, even though there are a million distractions, and how to retain energy and awareness and enthusiasm despite tons and tons of physical, mental, and emotional stress. So there's a curriculum that we established, which has been going on in West Point for over 30 years now, and it's been exported to various units outside of West Point, different army posts around the country and around the world.

4:20And now little pieces of it will be exported. This is what's so great about podcasting, by the way. Someone like me or probably some of my friends listening, I really could get nowhere near West Point, But through podcasting, I'm going to pick up some of the things that these elite performers have picked up in their life. So let me ask you a question, basic question first, because I do a lot of work on self-confidence. And I also work with athletes and corporate people and CEOs, et cetera. Your work is so specific. What is it that creates confidence in the brain, like just as a mechanism to begin with?

4:53How would you answer that? What is it that creates confidence in the brain? Well, the only thing that creates anything in the brain are clusters of neurons that fire together. Right. And what we all have in our brains are clusters of neurons that fire as a result of and as a cause to certain thoughts and memories and experiences. And if you get your brain continually firing those particular clumps of neurons, it just becomes your brain's default habit. And so you find yourself engaged rather than hesitant. You find yourself excited rather than apprehensive. And it's simply because you have trained yourself to think and think in one way only.

5:44And because you have been thinking in one way, you have literally done some physical rewiring of the gray matter between your ears and the gray matter that goes down your spinal cord. Now, that rewiring, let's say you're listening to you today and you're like, okay, I do have a consistent way of thinking. And I've been thinking for 30 years as an unconfident person. I've replayed memories from childhood or my adult experience where I've had a failure or a setback, or maybe not even that. Maybe I've just always been pretty, in my mind, average. Yeah. Right? You just said it. I've always been in my mind pretty average.

6:25Keep going, Ed. Well, so I live that. My belief system is if you live that way in your mind, your external world will probably produce those results, right? You're 100 % right. So if I've lived this way for a long time, I've got that wiring, what are some of the practices, and please take a few minutes on this, that you would offer to my audience that could begin to rewire what goes on in their mind, like actual practices, practical application, strategic stuff. First applicable practice, take whatever time is necessary and a piece of paper and a writing implement and write out a list of your most enjoyable, enthusiastic, rewarding accomplishments in your life.

7:17Okay. Whatever they may be. Okay. I liken that process to basically opening up a bank account, a psychological bank account of achievements, awards, good experiences, and everybody has them. We may have overlooked them for various reasons, which we can get into. But they're there. Okay. Nobody makes it into West Point. Nobody makes it into a college athletic program. Nobody makes it to a professional level. Nobody makes it to the C-suite. We haven't done a hell of a lot of good things. So the first thing we need to do is shine a light on that. It's like being a miner and you're looking for those nuggets of gold or diamond.

8:06It's like being a detective. I'm looking for clues. lose so I outlined an exercise called the top 10. Top 10 moments if you're a baseball pitcher it's your top 10 moments playing baseball I was high school player of the year I had my first college start here I got my first college win there so that sort of establishes the bank account and then and this exercise one the last guy who interviewed me for a podcast refers to this as the deadlift of mental training exercises. If you're going to do one strength exercise, you deadlift. If you're going to do one thing consistently in terms of building your confidence, you're going to do what I call the ESP daily reflection.

8:55At the end of every day, you reflect on your experiences of the day and ask yourself three questions. Where did I put in quality effort? Here, here, here. Second question, what did I get right? Oh, I made a success here. I did well on this drill. I got this compliment there. Third question, what am I making progress in? Well, I'm getting better at understanding the periodic table. I'm getting better at understanding certain AI implications in my business. I'm getting better at throwing that deep corner back shoulder fade. okay and that reflection takes literally five minutes and i encourage people to keep that in some kind of written journal format okay and that is a daily deposit into that mental bank account that i described i have to tell you establish the bank account yeah and then you add to it and you add to it and you add to it and you add to it those are those are the two most important exercises It is practical drills that people can do to build up a sense of certainty about themselves.

10:11Okay, guys, I have to tell you, first of all, don't discount what he just said. So my producer is my son actually now, and so I know he's in the studio sort of smirking because one of the techniques that I teach with the athletes or leaders that I work with is called the highlight reel. Same deal. Correct. Same deal. But let's talk about why this works and why people don't do it. So the reason that I do, so I'll have people pick two or three highlights and then feed to themselves the cognitive rehearsal of the next highlight they wish to achieve in their life. And the reason that this works, everybody, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but confidence, success, peak performance, the zone, whatever you want to call it, is actually a neurology.

10:51There's a chemistry that's happening within your body when you're choking or nervous or scared or unconfident. And there's a different chemistry in your body that you inhibit that is a confident one. And when you do these little deposits, you're actually reminding your body of what that neurology is like, correct? That's a great way to understand it, yes. Okay. Now, the challenge is, for most people, it's interesting. The lack of confidence that we all have produces our filter for the way we see ourselves in the world. So for most people, they'll say when you just said that, so let's just dig deep.

11:28Let's push each other here. They'll say to you, well, I haven't thrown a touchdown. I didn't get into West Point. Heck, I couldn't get into a junior college. Or, you know, I'm an entry-level person working in a cubicle somewhere, and I don't have these deposits. The truth is that's a lie, isn't it? That they have had successes, but their lack of confidence is a filter where they discount themselves and the things they do well. So if you ask the average person, give me a list of the 20 things the last year you've screwed up or messed up, they can recall that in a minute. But if you said to them, give me three things you did in the last month or the last day that were great, they have to search through this filter they've got that tells them they're worthless.

12:09So could you just speak to that for a second in terms of not all of it has to be some touchdown you've thrown in the NFL. It could simply be, you know, a great conference call you had or a great Zoom or a great interaction with your children that just was loving and kind, right? All of the above qualify. Any memory, any statement about yourself in the present, any fantasy, vision of something you want in the future that creates a sense of energy and optimism and enthusiasm is worth hanging on to. however small it might be. The point that you're raising, Ed, which is really important, is that so many of us were brought up to think that we can only value our experience, we can only value ourselves if we have achieved everything that the world has deemed to be important.

13:09Great grades in school, great bunch of friends, won every game you ever played in, had the most attractive spouse possible. We have been socialized to kind of search for, hang on to, and unfortunately define ourselves by our negative experiences. So much of our socialization has brought us to that. And I am constantly, and it sounds like you're constantly as well, urging people to look for, hang on to, and define yourself by the quality of your effort, the successes that you have achieved, and basically the magnitude of the obstacles that you have overcome. That's what you want to define yourself by.

14:00the two things you said that stand out to me that you've repeated twice and i don't think people give themselves enough credit for this is effort the basis often for the foundation of confidence has to begin with your effort because effort precedes the result and so if all of your confidence you guys listening is based on the the results you produce all the time you're going to be waiting around a long time to build that self-confidence level but if it's predicated on effort that I did get into the gym. I did do the reps I said I was going to do. I did do one more at the end when I promised myself.

14:31I emptied my daggone mailbox at the end of the day before I left the office. See, this is fascinating to me. This is how confidence has truly built everybody. Let me ask you a question about a failure or a traumatic event. Because I know with warfighters or soldiers of any type. I mean, they may have, it could be a PTSD moment. There could be childhood trauma. There could be, I flunked a test. And this oftentimes can kind of scramble our wiring, right? We're like, I've known people, for example, who are very confident people. And frankly, their spouse left them and their confidence is annihilated or they're very good in business.

15:14And then something happened to the business and they've had a bad year or lost the business. and in all honesty, they've almost become a shell of themselves externally. And I know that started internally. They never fully recovered from that setback. What would you say to that person who's gone through something like that? What I'd say to them is we've got to protect that bank account of yours. We've got to set up some cognitive safeguards so that the imperfect physical world that we live in and your personal, physical, inevitable imperfections do not destroy the energy, the optimism, and the enthusiasm that you have been building up by reflecting constructively on your various memories and your experiences.

16:00So I steal a whole lot of work from the positive psychology movement spearheaded by Martin Seligman at the University of Pennsylvania, looking at how do we mentally respond to setbacks? Do we see them as temporary? Yeah, they happen. They suck. But it was just a one time deal. Or do we say to ourselves, oh, it happened and it's going to happen over and over and over again? Permanent. Do we look at our setbacks as temporary or permanent? Take your pick. wow secondly do we look at our imperfections and our setbacks and our failures as basically limited in terms of where they occurred yes it happened in that inning of the baseball game yes it happened at that in that conversation with that individual or that board meeting or do we say to ourselves oh every time everywhere all these things get screwed up Do we keep them limited or do we globalize them?

17:05Okay. And third, and this is where it really gets important. And this is what most people struggle with most of all. So if you listen to this show or you watch this show, here's what I know about you. You're trying to feel healthier. You're trying to feel more energy. And by the way, there's all kinds of things we're all doing to make that happen, right? We drink more water. We get our steps in. You're taking your vitamins. Maybe you're doing the macros thing. But here's what most people miss. I missed it for a long time. Your liver health. It affects literally everything. It affects your energy, your digestion, how your skin looks, even your metabolism.

17:33That's a biggie. Dose for your liver is a clinically backed liver health supplement. One of a kind. This isn't just another capsule or powder. Dose is a liquid supplement. It's taken in a daily two-ounce shot, and it tastes like fresh squeezed orange juice. Tastes really, really good. It's got real results. Ready to give your liver the support it deserves? Head to dosedaily.co slash mylet. or enter MyLet to get, listen to this, 35 % off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for that. That's D-O-S-E-D-A-I-L-Y dot C-O slash MyLet for 35 % off your first month's subscription.

18:13You know, one of the things that's really booming right now is people deciding to take their children's education into their own hands, and I absolutely understand that. If I had young ones right now, I can tell you I'd be doing it. And if you're a family that's looking for a new path to help their child succeed, K-12 could be the perfect fit. K-12 Powered Schools offers, listen to this, tuition-free, accredited online public education for students kindergarten through 12th grade. They're going to meet your child's needs, meaning they're going to figure out the best way to educate your child on their learning style.

18:44K-12's been a leader in online education for over 25 years. K-12's dedicated teachers are trained in virtual instruction and provide real-time support. Students will belong to a real, vibrant, engaged online community so they don't feel alone or isolated in their learning. There's socialization that you can control and set the setting for as well. So see how K-12 Powered Schools can help unlock your child's full potential. Enroll online today at k12.com slash mylet. That's the letter K, number 12, dot com slash mylet. When a setback takes place, are we able to put it in a perspective? Yeah, it happened, but it's non-representative of me.

19:25It's non-representative of me. It happened. There could be consequences, but that setback does not tell the truth about me. Wow. So I have to keep my setbacks and failures temporary, limited, not the truth, as opposed to permanent everywhere and absolutely the truth about myself. and that's just a distinction that everybody can make it takes some practice to establish that as a habit and I'm constantly counseling people to do that challenging them to put the difficulties of life with a capital L in those temporary, limited and not the truth terms because if we go that way we are blind to our own possibilities and to our own capabilities.

20:24Wow, that's profound. That was really good right there, Nate. Really good. You know, I find the third one so prominent where people will have a failure and I'll literally hear them say, I'm a failure. Exactly. That is precisely the point. Instead of, okay, I failed at something, they make the categorical judgment. henceforth i am a failure no you might have goofed that calculus test you might have goofed that fitness test you might have goofed your execution of your high bar set in the gymnastics meet okay let's leave it right there yeah let's not draw the conclusion that i'm a failure categorically yep this globalization practice that yeah that term you made of you ought to ask yourself this everybody too do you sort of globalize results i love that term because you know you were in a relationship this person doesn't love you anymore that doesn't mean you're unlovable right in this relationship you know another thing i've deduced listen to you and it's like it's an old school thing because you're such a scientifically based guy but that you don't hear anymore in what I call like self-help circles or personal development or self-confidence.

21:42This interesting thing you've said three different times, I think, and I want you to speak to it. You know, it used to be that, hey, listen, you got to get excited. You got to have some enthusiasm. You know what's interesting? I never hear that anymore, the word enthusiasm. Yet you've said it three times. It's like almost like this missing thing that used to be talked about all the time. But there's something to be said for the level of enthusiasm you bring to a project, a meeting, a relationship. And it's just one of these things that, at least for me, I think we just forget. It's like, okay, I prepared my notes.

22:12I know what I'm going to say. Or we've got a game plan for the game or the meeting. And you forget the enthusiasm, the energy part of confidence, of success, of making it infectious. So speak to enthusiasm. And also, how does that impact the other people, your family, your business people you lead? um you know i think the word enthusiasm sometimes gets misinterpreted to mean you know confetti and balloons and and angels blowing trumpets uh great big deals but how about just that little sort of secret smile yeah this could be really cool that's enthusiasm this meeting could turn out great we could smoke these guys in the second half okay i could turn my platoon into the shit hottest bunch of dudes and dames in the army and it's not this boisterous loud thing it's just this internal oh yeah that could be cool that that level of enthusiasm i think is It's really productive.

23:19And it's something that you can sustain throughout the day, the week, the month, the quarter, career, you know, jumping up and down and with the balloons and the confetti. Oh, that's kind of tiring, you know? Yeah, you're right. And to your second point, it's just that quiet. Okay, we're going to do this. That quiet level of enthusiasm. People are drawn to that automatically. They don't necessarily know why. They just say, it's cool being around that dude. Okay, that woman has a certain degree of classy power because she communicates. She's not doing it necessarily to impress everybody else. She's just doing it because she knows it's the right thing to do.

24:09And it somehow, I don't know, psychically leeches out and draws other people to you. this is by the way i love doing the show it's the little subtle distinctions that i get from someone like you it's so profound as a 55 year old guy of bringing a sustainable level of enthusiasm to your endeavors not the crazy bells and whistles that can't lack can't endure the season the year the company you know you're right it's sustainable enthusiasm i love that classy level of confidence By the way, everyone, a lot of you are listening on audio. Those of you that are listening on YouTube saw this, but what Dr.

24:50Zizzer was doing was there was this kind of smirk in his physiology. And so I want you to speak to this for a second too. Is there a connection between physiology and the mental level of confidence, whether that be physical exertion, the way we use our face, our breathing? Is there a correlation in your mind that you teach between physiology, physical movement, and confidence? There definitely is a connection. I wouldn't consider myself an expert on it. I do know that shoulders slump forward, head facing downward tends to both communicate a lack of enthusiasm and it literally tends to produce it in oneself.

25:37hmm conversely shoulders back chin up a little bit eye contact okay this communicates to the observer a level of engagement a level of enthusiasm yep and there is some research to demonstrate that posture alters your emotional state okay it's somewhat controversial but I urge everybody to try it. Yep. Set up straighter. Yep. By the way, I agree. I actually think, I don't think this is disputable. Listen, when you got on the Zoom here today, I knew immediately within 30 seconds I was dealing with a confident person as it comes to the topic he was speaking on. There's an assumption physically that somebody makes when they're confident, and there's a doubting sort of constricted bent over physiology of someone who is hopeful you're going to believe them i hope you like me i hope you find me attractive i hope you think there's a difference between hoping and assumption and it's not arrogance there is a physical connotation to how we do hold ourselves and it's not and to your point i don't think it's over the top i think it's subtle.

26:58I think it's nuanced. I don't think it has to be, you know, you see those guys that walk around way too puffed out, right? Way too much of their chest. You know, this guy's a poser. And I'm sure there's a similar physiology for a woman. It's subtle. But I do think those of you that are working on your confidence, you should at least check a box of how's my physiology, my facial expressions, how I walk, how I talk, my pace, my tonality, my cadence, I think matters. Am I acting in a way that I would want to follow somebody? yeah am i being the kind of person that i would want to follow wow it can be as simple as that who are the people that you are just sort of naturally almost unconsciously engaged with what are they like are they right set back are they all right all right are they open open Why don't you just be that way?

28:00Just try it for a little while. You're not faking anything. You are being a version of yourself. That's not fake. That's you being you. Let's explore that. Very good. Yeah, you're right. I think sometimes you think, well, I'm copying this person. There's a difference for me because when I was young, I lacked confidence. I did exactly what you thought. I thought, well, who do I admire? Who would I want leading me? And what I would call that, guys, that's listening so you don't feel fake, It's more like modeling somebody than copying them. It's my version of the things I've noticed in them that I found pleasing or attractive or brought me confidence.

28:35Effective. There you go. Right. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Okay. I'm going to give you a guy. I need to know about this because you talk about our minds. There's this dude. I'm a huge Boston sports fan. And you're already smiling. And I liked you, Nate, until I found out you helped this guy. and now I'm on the fence until we're done here today. I'm a Pats fan, and I think most of you know if you're not football fans, there's this guy named Eli Manning who basically ruined my life twice. And I mean it, like ruined my life. And so Eli Manning's quarterback for the New York Giants. He's not in the Hall of Fame yet, but he should be.

29:15I'll even say that on his behalf. He's won a couple Super Bowls. he's basically really one of two people who ever beat tom brady in the super bowl and he actually did it both times he played him so think about that you guys he's also got an older brother who was a great player he was like almost the second one in the family so some of you feel that way oh my sister's the rock star my brother's the one that everybody looks up to eli had that with his own dad and his own brother he was like third wheel and he's won two super bowls and beat the goat twice. Tell us about your work with Eli. And I, someone told me you got a story.

29:48At least I need to hear about Superbowl 46, which I probably don't want to hear. And I'm probably going to edit out, but I want you to tell it anyway, tell it anyway. Um, you know, when I started this podcast, it seemed like I had to figure everything out on my own, you know, scripts set up filming schedule, logos, posting marketing. It was just completely overwhelming. And probably a lot of you feel that way in your business as well. And every day it seemed like I had to make a new decision that needed an answer. And a lot of them were just questions I didn't have answers for. So that's where Shopify came in, to be honest with you.