Learning to Love Yourself with Thais Gibson

25:09Why are, why is it they don't want me to go do this? And now you might have a deeper understanding of, of the reasoning behind, you know, not only their behaviors, but if you understand their behaviors and their needs, you understand where this resistance coming from. I I wrote a term down just because I didn't understand if it was different than what I was reading. So this is just for my edification. What is integrated attachment theory?

25:35So integrated attachment theory is the science of how we can actually change to become securely attached. We're not stuck with our attachment style. So it's actually the study of these five major places that we can do the work at a subconscious level so that we can become secure and have like the strengths that came out of having an insecure attachment style, because there are strengths. We become resilient, resourceful, more empathetic, more compassionate in a lot of ways, but also have wired in those healthy patterns of secure attachment. Can you elaborate on what some of those places are? Yes.

26:07So the first one is we have to reprogram core fears. So we all have these core fears. Like we've talked about the abandonment or the fear of being trapped or defective or criticized. And so we can actually, we're not born with those fears. We can recondition them through leveraging the science of neuroplasticity. So repetition and emotion fires and wires new ideas. And it's not through something like affirmations. I'll sort of go down a rabbit hole here just for you. But a lot of people will try to do affirmations. So let's say somebody, for example, has a core fear. I'm not good enough. You're not going to really help yourself by saying I'm good enough.

26:41I'm good enough. I'm good enough. I think it's a little bit futile. And the reason is because your conscious mind speaks language. If I say to you, Ed, whatever you do, do not think of a chocolate chip cookie. Right. How did that go? So what happens is your conscious mind here is do not, but your subconscious actually speaks in emotion and in images. So nobody's waking up intentionally having these core fears. Nobody's saying, oh, I'm going to tell myself I'm not good enough 47 times today and hope that I feel good. What's actually happening is these are subconscious pre-existing programs. so we have to speak to the subconscious mind to solve for that so what i give people as an original tool to recondition these core fears that really are the big saboteurs of our relationships i'll be abandoned i'm not good enough i'll be alone forever these huge things that wreak havoc on our life and relationships is we start by number one identifying the core fear and its opposite very simple i'm not good enough i am good enough number two we need 10 pieces of memory of times we did feel good enough.

27:44And the reason we have memory and the reason we picked 10 is because we need a repetition for firing and wiring. And memory is just container for emotions and images. If somebody recounts their favorite childhood memory, maybe it's them playing on the playground. What do you see? The images of the slide. As you tell the story, you smile, your body language shifts and changes. So now we're using our conscious mind to speak to our subconscious mind. step three we record it for 20 and listen back to it for 21 days because it takes about 21 days to fire and wire these new strong neural pathways and as long as we have like 10 pieces of proof for how we feel good enough or why we're worthy of connection instead of abandonment or we're lovable instead of unlovable or whatever the core wound is that we're targeting 10 pieces of evidence listen back for 21 days we will actually rewire these ideas that we've carried about ourselves and relationships for very long periods of time.

28:38So that's the first one. So is reprogramming these core fears. And I'm sure anybody listening, if they're like, oh, 21 days, it feels like a lot. I would really encourage anybody listening to think of how many times that core fear has actually sabotaged your relationships. And it will always be more work not to do the work. It's a lot to have to live like that. Yeah. You built those neural pathways, probably doing it for 21 years. You can spend 21 days trying to undo it. Exactly. Exactly. And it only takes like five minutes of the morning routine or something. It's very simple. So the second one is we need to learn our own needs.

29:11And so, you know, I mentioned those earlier, you know, for some people, they need the reassurance, the validation, the certainty for other people. They need the autonomy, the acknowledgement, the independence. So when we can go back and actually see what our needs are, according to our attachment style, we actually first have to learn to meet them ourselves. ourselves. There's, there's a great quote from Dr. Gabor Mate and he says, trauma are the things that happen that shouldn't have happened. Okay. So let's say verbal abuse, for example, which would maybe cause somebody to feel I am not good enough.

29:41And we have those core fears, but it's also the things that didn't happen that should have happened. So this could be, if somebody gets neglected growing up, we're wired for attunement. So we will have these deeply unmet needs that come from trauma, whether it's small T trauma or a big T trauma. And because of the subconscious comfort zone, because we want to keep that subconscious comfort zone alive in the relationship to self, we keep those needs unmet in our own lives first. So you'll see like dismissive avoidance, they're neglected. And what do they do? They grow up and they neglect their own emotions.

30:16And so, you know, we see this time and time again for each person. So our step two is after we reprogram core fears. Number two, we learn to meet our own needs. In doing this, if we can show up and meet a need that's deeply unmet every day for 21 days, we actually will change that within ourselves. And then what will happen is we will be attracted to the right people who will mirror that back to us. Because our point of familiarity, our own subconscious comfort zone has now shifted. So we don't keep attracting those old patterns, those old people who will keep that self-fulfilling prophecy alive.

30:50So that's really stuck to identify your deeply unmet needs, meet them in relationship to self for 21 days. Step three, very simple, a little nervous system regulation because every insecure attachment style is often sitting too much in fight or flight or parasympathetic nervous system mode. So a little breath work in the evening or a little meditation on a daily basis, just something for 20 minutes a day to help recondition our body. So it follows our subconscious mind into feeling like it is safe to be in our body. It's safe to be more present with ourselves. And again, it tends to come full circle and giving to ourselves those deeply unmet needs.

31:27Now, those first three steps I like to think of as being in relationship to self. Okay. I'm doing the work on me first. I'm removing my core fears. I'm meeting my own needs. I'm regulating my nervous system. The second ones are out into relationship with others because healthy interdependency means I'm a master of the relationship to myself and I'm a master at being able to relate to rely on and be vulnerable with others. It's not one or the other. And so our second two steps are communicating our needs to others and allowing ourselves to receive them and having healthy boundaries so we can show and share our true selves with other people.

32:06I often say to people when it comes to boundaries, you know, when people don't set boundaries, they're like, no, boundaries are off. They're, they're going to, they're like a separation instead of a joining, but a boundary is you sharing the nose in your life. You know, you're not connecting fully or truthfully by just sharing all the things you do like, or that are great. You also have to say, Hey, I don't like when this happens. Hey, I don't like these things because that's you sharing without your mask. And so if we can do these five major things and really connect in a real honest way with ourselves first, and then with others, that's how I move the needle from insecure to securely attached in a fairly short period of time, and it will transform the relationship we have to ourselves and the relationships in all aspects of our lives.

32:49This is so good. Basic question, you cover it in the book. By the way, thank you for this. I love real work that really makes a difference and really changes people. How do our emotions affect our actions? I know that's a general question, but it's actually part of the book as well. I don't think most people step back and look at that, that not only the state you're in, but the emotional state you're in and how it's impacting the action. I know that's a broad question compared to the very specific place we just went, but I think when we get really granular, like we just did, it's time to kind of go to concept for a second as well to understand why that matters.

33:28So how do emotions affect behavior? Amazing question. So a neuroscientist named Antonio Damasio, I believe it was in 2008, actually discovered conclusively that every single action we take or decision we make is based on our emotional state. So some people are very quick to rationalize or justify through logic. They're like, I'm a logical thinker. I only make logical decisions. But the reality is at the tipping point, you're making an emotionally based decision. And then you're just quick to then rationalize it through logic. And so if we are not in control of how we feel, then we are not in control of the decisions that we're making.

34:03And I would make a really strong argument that when we go back to this topic of core fears, I often give people this acronym of BTEA, which is our belief patterns will create patterns of thought, which is then will create emotions and then actions will follow. So if I, for example, let's pretend I have this core wound, I'm not good enough. Well, that may, I might start thinking thoughts. Like I'm not interesting enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not pretty enough, whatever it is, fill in the blanks enough. and then what will happen is how will I feel or emote according to that we'll feel insecure or afraid or sad and then we all go into our actions or coping mechanisms right we're not even in charge when somebody's feeling that way what do they do do they go to their fridge and eat a whole bunch of junk food do they withdraw from the world and go into their shell do they become really big and tell everybody how amazing they are to try to overcompensate but it feels arrogant so really if we're not being able to reprogram and identify these core beliefs or these old fears or wounds, then we're going to have havoc wreaked on our thought patterns throughout the day.

35:09Our emotional state, we're not in charge of. And then our actions, we're not even in charge of either. And when we go and change and recondition these old stories or belief patterns, everything else will follow how we think, how we feel about ourselves, and even our actions and behaviors will become healthier. So good. You're, um, I think of energy when you say that and you talk about, I never heard this before, black cat versus golden retriever energy, right? What, what is, I know what that is now, but just share what that means for everybody. Cause I think also how we feel is our ability to sense and give energy and the energy that we put out as well.

35:47Yeah. So this was like a trending, I actually spoke about this cause it was trending all over TikTok and the internet. And my take on it, honestly, was neither is right. You know, people were saying, don't be the golden retriever. The golden retriever is sort of the one that's like, always open, always trying, always giving, making the effort, sort of the anxious coucher, right? The people pleaser. And the black cat is like the avoidance, stay away, kind of mysterious, withdrawn. And the whole internet's going, don't be the golden retriever, be the black cat. And I was saying, well, this is just reinforcing, telling people they should be a dismissible void and attachment style.

36:21You know, what we actually want to do is be interdependent, which means I can show up for myself in relationship to myself and I can be there for other people too. And when we master both sides of it, that's secure attachment and secure connection. And that's when we have thriving relationships. There's also a lot of information out there in the world too, which I respect where it's coming from, but it's like, you know, people, women should only ever have their full feminine energy. Men should only be fully in their masculine energy. Polarity in dating is really meaningful. Okay. There's three things that drive attraction at the subconscious level.

36:56These are like actually how we become attracted to people besides like physical features and biology. Right. So we have number one, somebody who meets meets your deeply unmet needs from childhood. Let's say that somebody felt very unseen as a child. And then somebody is like, you know, really present with them. That's going to cause us to feel like, wow, I really want to be connected to this person. The second is somebody who expresses your repressed trait. Okay. If somebody is really assertive and I'm not assertive, that might be really attractive, for example. Right. So, so that's a big part of, of what creates attraction.

37:29The third is your subconscious comfort zone and relationship to self. That's what you'll invest in the most. So we have this idea that like, okay, polarity is attraction, but have you ever noticed this before? Let's say, and this happened to me, I'll share a personal example. So my husband, super assertive, very, and I was kind of like overgiving and not as assertive when I first met him. And I thought it was so attractive in the dating stage of relationships. We have multiple stages of relationships, dating, honeymoon, power, struggle, stability, commitment, bliss. What we're attracted to in terms of polarity in the dating stage, when we get to the power struggle stage will be the exact thing that often ruins or disrupts the relationship.

38:09So dating stage is like, oh, he's so assertive. That's so attractive. Power struggle stage. It's like, he never makes compromises. This is so frustrating. And so what we're supposed to be doing, and you'll see this all the time. Somebody's like, oh, they're so easygoing. That's so attractive. The power struggle stage comes along and they're like, they never make plans. This is so frustrating. So what we're supposed to be doing is actually integrating those traits and being whole. It's not supposed to be that that person's one way and I'm the exact opposite. That's attractive at the beginning. But as we progress for a relationship to work, we're actually supposed to take on sides of one another to become whole.

38:48And so this idea that like masculine energy only and feminine energy only, no, men need to also have that emotional side, be able to express, have that sort of connection in relationship to their own emotions and women also need to have that ability to be assertive sometimes and set boundaries and have some of those masculine energy traits in the wholeness relationships last can you go through those six stages again just quickly because you went through that really really quickly the six stages again no i think everybody heard it and they're like can ask her that again so i'm excited for a moment to share that so there's the dating stage um which is sort of the vetting stage of relationships.

39:25It's the first zero to four months. It's like, you know, we're getting to know if we're fit for each other, asking the right questions. If we make a commitment to each other after that first few months, we move into the honeymoon stage where there's some sort of, there's a rite of passage into commitment. And then in the honeymoon stage, we have the elevated neurochemistry of oxytocin and serotonin and dopamine and attraction neurochemicals that That lasts for about a year to two years after the dating stage ends. Then as we start to get comfortable and we adapt to each other, the mask comes off and it's the rite of passage going into the power struggle stage.

40:03Unfortunately, people often don't know that this exists. So the mask comes off and we start sharing our fears, our flaws, our frustrations more easily with our partner. And often this is where relationships break down. This is statistically where most relationships end. the right of passage of the power struggle stage is to be more vulnerable and to share our fears and flaws with people and to accept and work through them together and when we do this we have the capacity to move the needle from more conditionally based love to more unconditionally based love because we're showing ourselves finally without condition dating and honeymoon we usually are like on our back behavior a little bit still power struggle it's like this is the real me These are the innermost things that are going on.

40:50When we learn to navigate those with each other and take each other's fears or challenges into consideration, we move out of the power struggle into the stability stage, eventually the commitment stage and the bliss stage, which is like the honeymoon stage, but we know each other much more deeply. And in that power struggle stage, you know, for example, I know in the power struggle stage, just as an analogy with my husband, you know, he shared a lot about how he was sensitive to criticism. He was more dismissive avoidant when, when we first started dating and I was able to just be mindful and considerate of that, right?

41:26It's not like, Oh, I have to be perfect all the time, but I would phrase things differently. Instead of saying, Hey, you didn't do this. I'd be like, Oh, Hey, do you mind doing this? And these little tiny things, we can consider each other more support each other in that. And those are the ways that we deepen that connection. but unfortunately most people constantly go through dating honeymoon power struggle breakup dating honeymoon power struggle breakup and so they think that relationships are either in this intoxicating love space or in this space of like oh everything's fighting and it's terrible and we'll break up and it just wasn't meant to be but relationships in their life cycle are far beyond that and when we deepen that connection and know each other more we can really move the needle ahead.

42:09What's a perceptual shift? A perceptual shift is when we are able to really look outside of our own perspective to really challenge and question things that we've been believing or attaching to as concepts for a long time. I used to personally, for example, think that everybody's going to betray you eventually. So relationships, just, you know, what's the point of investing in them. But what I try to get people to do is be like, can I really know that that's true? Like, can I a hundred percent know that? And to question these longstanding ideas and to poke at them. Right. So, so I learned, well, actually people may make mistakes, but real trust isn't earned through people being perfect.

42:50Real trust is earned through me when there's a mistake made advocating for myself, letting somebody know that they hurt me and what I need for reparation and that's strengthening the connection as a result. So our perceptual shift is really when we go from attaching to one original idea to being able to poke at it, try and do something differently and really see a lot of that progress as a result. I'm just listening to you. I got two more questions, by the way. I'm enjoying this thoroughly. And when I say that I have two more questions, please take your time on both these because I'm interested.

43:21I want to step out of your work for a minute and talk about you. so I learned a little bit about you as we were getting ready that you started doing some of this work at like 21 years old and you're still a very young woman and clearly you know the the depth of your work is it's really extraordinary what what caused you to do this I because the reason I ask it is that I think anytime you observe somebody who's great at something and you want to be great in your life I think success leaves clues like how is it that she became so great at this so young What caused you to start doing this in the first place?

43:57Yeah, thank you. I was an addict. I was addicted to opioids after a knee surgery just before I turned 15. I was a soccer player. I played D1 in university, but really just hung on by a thread there. But soccer was my coping mechanism from a really chaotic childhood. And when that got taken away, I just really went down a terrible rabbit hole. and I did inpatient rehab, outpatient rehab, AA meetings, NA meetings, nothing really worked for me. And I was like hanging on by a thread. I was still somewhat in school. I would go to rehab during the summers and, and I was in a psych class and somebody said to me, your conscious mind can't outwill or overpower your subconscious mind.

44:39And as somebody, if anybody's had this experience, like when you're trying to get clean, you tell yourself every day, I'm going to not do this again. This is going to be the last time. This is going to be the last day. And then you go back and you repeat the same patterns over and over. And it's, it's horrible. It's, it's that to me was like one of the hardest things that I ever went through. And it wasn't even like the thing, the traumas that caused the addiction to begin with. And so for me, I became obsessed with learning about the subconscious mind and the mind in general, because I knew when somebody said the conscious mind can't outwell the subconscious mind, I was like, this explains this daily fight that I have with myself.

45:18So I got really into when I turned about 20. I got really into, I think it might've been right before I turned 20, obsessing over the subconscious mind that led me to sobriety after a lot of other things hadn't worked. And I did a lot of work on my core wounds, my big core fears that were causing me to have really negative and often really cruel thoughts towards myself and to feel badly. And then I would not, right? With opioids, that was Like, and I realized, oh my gosh, I'm running for myself the whole time. That's what this is. So I did a ton of reconditioning of my subconscious wounds, learned my needs, learned to emotionally regulate, um, and just did a whole bunch of work deeply in myself.

45:57And then this is what, like 13 years ago. And nobody was talking about this stuff then, right? At least in my experience, it was very rare. So I started giving workshops for free and started, you know, sharing and opening up and just telling people like, look, you can change your subconscious mind. and then eventually revisited relationships and attachment theory and learned, okay, these things are very much interconnected in a very real way. I'm fascinated, you know, on my show, not everybody, I can't say that this is everybody, but a lot of people struggle with finding their purpose. And I've been talking about this a lot on like on my stage speaking as well.

46:33And it's not everyone, but the vast majority of people that I've had on my show or that I know personally in my private life that have extraordinary work they do comes from some form of pain. Their purpose came through something painful. And I think that's just the reason I asked you this was I didn't know why. And I think if you're listening to this or watching it today and you're saying, I haven't found my purpose yet, you might want to take a peek at painful parts of your life. You might want to take a peek there because somewhere in there, there was a lesson, a gift, a relationship, an emotion, or maybe a purpose that has come through that.

47:09You know, I say all the time that, and it wasn't my saying, but oftentimes you're most qualified in life to help the person you used to be. And you're, you were a bit broken and you appear to me to be so extraordinary at helping people that are a little bit feel broken, at least, or broken relationships. And so just, um, really fascinated by that. So everybody just hearing her story, I hope you all, you know, relate to that. If you don't have your purpose yet. Look somewhere maybe where there's been pain in your life. Okay. Having said all that last question, it kind of steps a little bit out of the work, but you do talk about it in your work.

47:41And that is that I think most people in our culture today are struggling with their self-esteem overall, just their self-worth. And they bring that into these relationships in addition to their attachment styles. And it affects every area of their life, lack of self-esteem or even in the reverse. An increase in self-esteem changes your external life, changes your emotions so often. And your work is so good. So I thought, I don't want to finish today by not asking you, do you have a hack, a strategy? I know you have multiple ones, but that you would share with us today to help somebody who says, I need to feel better about myself.

48:15I need to have more esteem. Absolutely. I think it really boils down to these first two things. It's always where I would start. I don't think that true self-esteem is like arrogance. I think it's the absence of all of these core wounds, the absence of all of this negative internal dialogue that beats ourselves up. I think when we have the absence of those things, we are naturally more present. We're naturally able to feel confident and believe in ourselves for what we're going to do. And so I find that there's really two things that have a massive impact on our self-esteem as a whole. Number one, and this was big time my experience, is reprogramming those core fears using that tool we talked about, that auto-suggestion to speak to your subconscious because I was somebody who went through life and had all these really mean thought patterns towards myself, beat myself up for everything.

49:00So of course I don't feel confident in my life during that time. And so reprogramming those core ideas, I'm not good enough. I'm unworthy. I'm unlovable. I'll be disliked, rejected, all these things that goes an extremely long way in terms of our self-confidence. And the second one is when we learn to meet our unmet needs, because when we have these deeply unmet needs and the subconscious mind is in a state of learned helplessness, because we don't realize what they are consciously or how to meet them. What we do from learn helplessness is we outsource them. So let's say for example, that, you know, somebody is anxiously attached and they need validation and reassurance, but they don't know how to validate or reassure themselves.

49:38Well, what do they do? They make that exclusively their partner's major responsibility. And when that happens, somebody is not always going to be there. And so then we ride the roller coaster. Then when somebody does fill the bucket of reassurance, we're like, Oh, I feel good. And then when they don't or they withdraw, we then feel terrible. And we're on this self-esteem roller coaster with all the ups and downs because we have no focal point of control. And so when we can actually learn what our needs are, start meeting them in ourselves, we fill our own cup halfway every day. And we go out into the world from a more rooted, grounded, centered space.

50:12And if in combination of that, we also recondition these painful old fears that we have and negative beliefs about ourselves. It's like we clear the sledge out. and from that space, I feel like our light can really shine as individuals where we're grounded and present and available for what the world has before us. This was so good. This was so extraordinary. This is Tyese Gibson, everybody. Number one, her book is Learning Love. And I am really grateful that we did this today. I am really grateful. I just think your work's awesome. I think it's unique and I think it's needed. So very, very grateful for today.

50:50Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here with you. You're an absolute legend. So I'm so grateful that we got to have this conversation. We're going to do your stage speaking. We're going to work on that together. So I'm excited. I'm excited. All right, everybody. Hey, share today's episode. This is one that I know is going to reverberate through the internet today. All right. God bless you, everybody. Max out. This is the Ed Myron Show.

51:21Thank you.