Making It Without Losing Yourself Feat. Jess Ekstrom

28:47I'm not a jump up and down rah-rah kind of guy. And so I just don't really believe I'm kind of wired to, which is ironic because now I, you know, do it a lot. And I just don't think I'm, I just don't believe I'm wired to do it. And then I gave him a story of when I was a kid. And my dad sat back and goes, huh? And he kind of looks down and he goes, well, I wonder what you would need to believe so you could be a good speaker. I go, what do you mean? He goes, well, what would you need to believe? Like, you don't believe. What would you need to believe? And then I go, I don't know. And he goes, I think, Eddie, I think it's in the story.

29:26If you would change the story, you would change what you believe. Yes. And I went, huh, this is a pretty smart guy. Yeah, now I see where you came from. Yeah, he's just a guy. My dad was like, there's wisdom in there. And I started to think about, hmm, what would the story need to be? What story would I need to tell myself? And I finally figured out, you know what? There's millions of people more like me than like these extroverted speakers. Yes. And I could be the one to give everybody hope that somehow someone like me, I started to change the story and I changed what I believed. You talk about sort of like the story we tell ourselves in your work.

29:59Yeah. What would you tell someone who's listening? these days, I want to make my dreams come true. I'm being held back. I don't believe. Do you think it's probably connected to a story? Oh my gosh. I remember I was in fourth grade and apparently there's one day in fourth grade where you learn fractions. And if you don't, if you're not there on that day, good luck with fractions for the rest of your life. And I missed that day. I was, you know, and I get back to school the next day. The teacher calls me up to the board to do some like, what's one fourth of, you know, 80. I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't know.

30:29And I, for 30 years from that whiteboard, told myself I'm not good with numbers. Like, I'm just bad at math. I'm not good with numbers. I would enter any finance meeting for my company making self-deprecating jokes. Oh, like, don't show me the spreadsheet. My eyes will burn. And no, you know, I can't do this. And there was just one day where I finally realized this belief has been so repetitive that I mistake it for truth, where I'm like, I'm running two multimillion dollar businesses. I'm employing all these people. I got to be good with numbers. I got to have something. I can do it. And so I made this decision in that moment.

31:15I was like, no more. I'm not coming in with the self-deprecating jokes and finance meetings. I am not putting the numbers also in someone else's hands where I'm not aware of them anymore. And a lot of times we can track a limiting belief to an origin story. Yeah. And that was my origin story. And so once you realize, oh, that's where it was, not built off of this mountain of evidence, but like one - One event. One event. Yes. And it can just dispel it. And I think the more emotional the event, the stronger the belief is rooted in our nervous system. Yes. And childhood and just the vulnerability of it.

31:57I'm an introvert as well, which I also think is very interesting being speakers. I'm more comfortable on a stage and 5 ,000 people than I am. So am I. One to one. Really? Yeah. Very interesting. Same here. Yeah. In fact, the more people in the arena, the more comfortable I am. Why is that? I don't know. I did last week. I had two talks. One was about 20 ,000. Yeah. Felt good. Yep. Confident, crushed. The other one was like 50 in Mexico. Yeah. I need to go down there and 50. And I was, I don't know, whatever the thing is I have that is good wasn't there. Yep. And it was, I just felt more self. I don't know.

32:31Maybe it's because I could see every eye. Yes. So I'm thinking of what they're thinking. I don't know. But at this stage, I don't know how many people I've talked in front of them, but it's maybe a hundred million. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Millions for sure. Right. Maybe not a hundred million, but millions and millions. and it was, uh, I'll do the math for you. Yeah, that's right. You're good at math. It turns out you're good at math. It turns out you're good at math. I, uh, I don't know. I was like, I'm sure it went okay, but I was so nervous and so awkward. And it took me a long time to get into my flow and rhythm much longer than normal.

33:00You would think the reverse. That's the easy one. There's 50 people or it's just one-on-one. Ah, man, that I'm the same way. That's interesting. Interesting. I do think there's a vulnerability to a smaller audience where you can really see people. There's more, maybe pressure is not the right word, but like opportunity to be more interactive. Whereas with a stage of 5 ,000 people, you have your set. Like I have, you have your control. Not that you do the same thing every time, but you're like, I know what, how this goes. I think you're right. Yeah. I think way more people want to speak than admit it even to themselves.

33:36Meaning this, and this is where we're going to shift into the, where you're a guru. True. So a lot of people will tell themselves, well, I don't like speaking or I don't want to speak. Or is it you're afraid of it? I mean, there's a difference that you don't like it or wouldn't be good at it or that you have a fear for it. Most people, I think, would love to be able to get out and give a beautiful toast at their child's wedding. Or be more effective because you teach different speaking. You teach stage speaking, but you also teach business speaking, being in a boardroom, being able to communicate with 10 people sitting around a table, right?

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35:45Their tees are soft enough to live in every day. I'm living in one right now, and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer cools down. So make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com slash ed for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash ed for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince dot com slash ed. And I think this is fair to ask first. Can almost anyone get good at it or is there some like little anointing that certain people have in terms of speaking? I will say something maybe controversial, but I think that if you think you're bad at speaking, you probably have the opportunity to be a great speaker because there's a curiosity.

36:35There's a humbleness to it. Someone the other day was like, well, you teach people to be experts. If you teach people to be speakers, you teach people to be experts. I'm like, no, I actually teach them to be students. because to be a speaker, my opinion, is that you now are not speaking on something that you feel like you're an expert at. You're speaking about something that you are just lifelong curious about because whatever topic it is, motivation, whatever you're speaking about, it's gonna change. How we get there, public speaking, I don't consider myself, I'm pretty good at it, but I wouldn't say that I'm an expert because now with AI, there's just so many changes.

37:17I'm a lifelong student of it. So I think that if you almost have the fear of public speaking, I don't know if I can do this, you probably have this relatable, humble approach that can make you a great speaker. Now, there's definitely tips and mindset tricks that we can get into that can help with that, but I think anyone can be a great speaker. Good, I'm glad to hear that. Gary Vee, I interviewed Gary this week. It won't be out for a while, but in fact, it'll probably come out before this one, but we were talking about one of my favorite characteristics or qualities in my friends is curiosity.

37:49I love curious people because you know what? It's one of the ways you lose the kid in you is you lose curiosity. Children are so curious, right? So like that one word right there about you're curious about this, that should be a clue to someone as well. The fact that you're curious or it's mystical to you or man, you wish you could be better at it. That's usually, I think that's your soul saying, you should take a look over here. You should be curious over here. This is something that might be for you, even though it seems scary. I like to say, if a topic was brought up in a room, what would pique your interest?

38:25I'm really excited to talk about that. Or the other thing I ask people, if I gave you money for a billboard on your local highway, and you could put one phrase on it, one thing that you want people to know, what would it be? interesting and people have something like everyone has survived their hardest days and speaking isn't about sharing your highlight reel it's sharing like what you wish you would have known i had the chance last week to give the commencement address at my high school graduation which was awesome and it was such a gift to be able to say oh what did i wish i knew in that moment and the thing that i think a lot of speakers get wrong is that in order to teach what you learned, you have to teach where you failed.

39:08Like you have to show where like, oh, that didn't go so well. And so let me tell that story. But in the beginning of my speaking career, I thought it was all about sharing why I deserve to be there, why I'm credible. I've been on the Today Show. I've done this. I've done these things. I've done all this stuff. I deserve to be here. No one was learning anything. It was crickets. No one wanted to talk to me. There was no spinoff from it. And I remember the exact talk where I got a parking ticket that day. Now someone else got a parking ticket today. I got a parking ticket. It was raining and didn't bring my umbrella.

39:41And I was just so tired of trying to step into this role of being what I thought a speaker would be. And I talked about a time where I lost a family investment of my dad was my first investor in my company. And I wired that money to what was a fraudulent manufacturer and ended up losing that investment and what I did next. And it was the speech that made me a speaker because it wasn't about me anymore. Did everybody just hear this? Yeah. So profound what you just said. Once you start revealing your imperfections and being willing to connect with people, then you've met them somewhere. You don't have to have this resume.

40:22The resume distances you from the room. You know, of all the, and by the way, in a minute, you're going to tell us what you told the high schoolers. I haven't. Oh, okay. Yeah. But I want to tell you something how true, by the way, that's everyone lean in here. Okay. Because she's so right. I early in my career, when I was in the financial business, they would bring in all these millionaire speakers to teach. I don't know. This guy's worth 3 million. This guy's worth 2 million. This lady's worth 9 million. And they would give these talks. And I was, I'm from a lower middle-class family, poor, it was on welfare when I was a little boy.

40:54I couldn't connect with any of these guys. And one night the speaker flaked on this speaker series so they brought in this dude i remember his name i'm gonna say i don't even know if he's still alive they brought in this man little filipino man his name was ben patow i sat in the front row and almost no one showed up because the name speaker didn't come and some guy named ben and i remember this was a million years ago i remember he walked up and he had a simple suit on and he said you know i know you're gonna have so and so here and you've had all these million dollar speakers and he said i don't i've never made a million dollars a year but i've made 300 ,000.

41:27And he goes, and I don't know how many of you would be interested in that, but I do know how to do that. I've done it. It took me 20 years, but I do know how to do it. So tonight, if you're interested, I can teach you how to make$300 ,000 in this business, man. I leaned in and he started talking about his family. He's a simple man and simply spoken to that to this day, Ben Patel, right was the most impactful speaker of my life and i am not in her i've never said that on any interview anywhere ever till right now i just got goosies and i've been i've talked about everything yeah i am not talking to you i am quitting that business by the way almost for sure because i couldn't relate to these suits and the shoes they were wearing and the words they use this simple man and by the way that was a lot of money i thought man if i could make 300 000 in a year i I could have a house.

42:22I could probably pay it off someday. It gave me my first dream. I couldn't buy this huge dream. I needed just a dream. Yes. And he sold me the dream in a way because he was vulnerable and real. You know what a lot of people making 300 grand would have done? Come in and faked they were making more. 100%. Let's triple it. Yeah. Let's triple it. Yeah. Round up to a million. Yeah. You're so right. And people need to be able to connect the dots between where they're sitting and where you're standing. and whether that's in an audience or whether that's on social media. But it's like there has to be a clear path of like, oh, that's possible for me.

43:00I catch myself sometimes too, you know, as a speaker. It's like you are – I'm speaking to, you know, these large companies and I'm like, well, I need to step into this role of knowing everything, like that I have it all figured out. but I'll tell you I mean like the like I can share some of those stories and then I'll share a story about how you know my kid threw a fit in the grocery store and people are like oh I get when I started I've shared a couple times on stage uh Bernie's story and the amount of people that have come up to me that have had um something that they just have never talked about a relative or you know something that they've just been ashamed or embarrassed of and how it just gave them permission.

43:46They need to be able to draw the line between where they're sitting and where you're standing or else it won't resonate. A lot of depth in your work, by the way. Thanks. A lot of depth. I really enjoy how you think. I appreciate that. What you tell the high schoolers. Give us one thing. I'll give you one thing. The thing that I think I needed to hear right now that I was wondering, because one of my favorite parts about speaking, going back to curiosity, is the pre-call. You talk to the event before, tell me what keeps people up at night. what are they what are they thinking what's i a lot of times you have no idea i'm like i don't know what a insurance stock planning some you know i don't know and so tell me so i did the same i called teachers um tell me what this class of 2026 is feeling like they're really scared of ai yep and what it's doing a lot of booze the commencement address a lot of booze i was like okay let's not do that but i was like you gotta address it because it's the it's here it's there they're like they don't know what their place is in this the ambition levels are low um so i'm like what what is true in this and what do i need to tell them and it just came back to this overwhelming belief that like i you know ai makes a lot of things uncertain but one certainty is that being a good human always wins.

45:07I mean, the amount, and I know you see this of opportunities, promotions, partnerships, because they're like, Ed, that's a good man. He's a good person. Let's bring him here. Like, I don't even know what, you know, maybe his topic is right now, but he's a good person. And so hold the door, take out your AirPods with when you're at the airport, talk to the, you know, older person, pour your water, pour someone else's water before you pour your own. Just like the basic human things is our most competitive advantage right now. Oh my gosh. And that's what people need. You're, you're, it's so, look, when I do the show, someone, I'm just telling you, you, you just explained my life to me.

45:55I'm running on the beach. I'm in Hawaii. I'm 29 years old. I'm running down this beach early in the morning. Sun's not up yet. There's a guy running towards me. that's so long ago we're both wearing sony walkman you probably don't even know what that is but someone i remember okay listen to backstreet guess who's running towards me backstreet boys wayne dyer oh wow some of you don't know who he is but he's on the mount rushmore of all-time great influence he's running towards me he runs by me and i say dr dyer and he hears me through his walkman i pull my i said you changed my life wow and he goes i doubt it i bet you changed your life but how did I help and he walks up and kneels down and we sit on the beach watch the sun come up for an hour and a half and he ended up being my friend the rest of my life you said when you complimented me when we were off camera about that I meet people where they are and that's because my hero when I met him did it for me anyway at the end of the conversation he goes Ed he goes Eddie he puts his arm on me he goes you're gonna change the world and I thought I was the only person he ever said that to I'm sure he had said it to others but let me tell you why he said it He goes, and Ed, I do think you're brilliant, which I'm not.

46:59And he goes, and the way you communicate, I don't know that I've ever seen this before. And that's not why. And he goes, Ed, will you do me a favor and never attach your confidence to your abilities or your results? Because they're going to go up and down. He said, you'll be chasing that tail all your life, young man. He goes, Ed, let me tell you why you're going to change the world. And I'm there all ears. Yeah, locked in. He says, because you're a good man. He said, the power of your intentions, Ed. You intend to do well. He goes, by the way, you always won't. But your intentions are to help your intentions.

47:33You're a good man. Do you know that that was the first compliment of my entire life I believed? Yeah. I never believed the other compliments. That I thought I am a pretty good person. And I didn't know what he's writing a book at that time called The Power of Intentions, which I also recommend. And so before I give a speech, before we do this podcast, before I walk into a boardroom, And before I do anything, I remind myself I'm a good man. My intentions are to serve. My intentions are to make a difference. And I do have very high self-confidence as a result of that. And you are the only person in 10 years and 900 episodes who's ever said that on the show first to me.

48:10That was really good. It is. That story just gave me, like, if people could have that moment, and I hope whoever's listening does. It's just like, that's it. That's all we got. My kind of gut check for this is I always play peekaboo with babies in the grocery store. I'm like, if I'm waiting in line and there's a mom with a baby or something in the cart or I'm on a plane and the baby's like, I'm playing peekaboo. And for me, it is like a grounding reminder of just like life isn't that serious and just be the good person. I love when people come up and play with my kids when they're being wild. And I'm just like, play peekaboo.

49:00You are awesome. Okay. This is like one of these Holy Spirit type interviews. I have to tell you why. So what you just said about peekaboo and have that child thing. Life's not that serious. The other thing Wayne would do with me until the day he died. He's so funny. I would get worked up about things going on in life, right? And I'm stressed, Wayne, and this or that. He was a dear friend. and he would call me back and say, Ed, listen to me. And this is what he would say to me. Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily. Ed, life is but a dream. And he would say this to me.

49:37And by the way, I'm writing a book on it right now and I'm using it in my content, but it was the exact same reminder of playing peekaboo with yourself. Reminding you, this thing's just a dream. Take it easy. Because he knew my tendency was to get so wound up. Take it easy. Take it easy. He would be that person in my life. Isn't that cute? Isn't that good? He sounds just delightful. And when you have that type of person in your life, most things in life are caught, not taught. You tend to want to become more that way yourself as you get older. Can I give you one more thing that is on this that I think could be helpful based on everything we're talking about?

50:17one of the biggest shifts that I think someone can make I teach this shift I came up with it as a public speaking tip and the more I use it at companies I'm like this is just a life career shift there's two different types of speakers there are spotlight speakers and lighthouse speakers spotlight speakers come up on stage light is shining on them they're asking themselves how do I look how do I sound do people like me they're concerned with perception and perfection That's how we've been trained to speak, you know, from spelling bees to whatever. We always are like public speaking is about us.

50:51But a lighthouse speaker shifts the light from themselves to their audience or their listener or the baby in the grocery line. And if a spotlight asks, what does everyone think of me? A lighthouse asks, what does everyone need of me? And if you can go be a lighthouse on stage where you're like, where are they at? What do they need? How can I help? Exactly what Wayne did for you. Then you'll be okay. Whether that's public speaking, your job, your family. Like I always ask myself when I am getting really just anxious, overwhelmed, stressed out. Where am I shining my light right now? It's usually on me.

51:35And so how can I shift from a spotlight to a lighthouse? Very good. Look at you. This is so good. You tell good stories. Oh, thanks. Do you think that that's part of being a great, like when you're teaching these women to speak, is an underlying foundation of it? And if it's not, that's okay. Is part of it storytelling and being a great storyteller? So the method I teach people, and this is actually for anyone listening, even if you're not a speaker, have a notes app in your phone and call it moment to meaning. And what this is, is it's a technique that is great for speaking, but just for daily life where take a moment that happened.

52:15You're in the Starbucks drive-thru line, the car in front of you pays for your coffee. So you pay for the person behind you. That's a moment. That's a story. What's the meaning for someone else who wasn't in the Starbucks coffee line? Maybe kindness doesn't have to be applauded to be good. Like you won't be able to thank that person. There are countless moments that happen in our day, big and small, that have tremendous meaning. And when we can start to kind of get that muscle of here's the moment, here's the meaning, and that makes public speaking so much more accessible. Because, I mean, a lesson without a story is just a lecture.

52:54No one wants that. And so I think keynote speaking is, and just really any kind of great speaking, is the marriage of both story with lesson, a moment, and the meaning. But I think the key and what I see a lot of speakers get wrong is like they think that the moment is, the audience is the same as their story. Oh, I'm an entrepreneur, so therefore I speak to other entrepreneurs. I am working finance, so I want to speak to other famous. I'm a mom, so I need to speak to other moms. When really the best people who can learn from you are the ones who haven't walked in your shoes and never will. And so practicing, what's a moment I experienced?

53:36Me. And how can I change? We. Like what was the internal moment? And someone who has never experienced that, what can they learn from it? And so the storytelling is a natural part of that. And I think is really important in just being able to meet people where they are. And also keep attention. Keeping attention is hard these days. Yeah. Thank you for that. That's outstanding. I'm going to use that actually. Yeah, please. Really, really good. Let me ask you one more question on the speaking thing. Cause it like when people think of you, I think that's one of the first things they think of is about your ability to teach people to speak and off camera.

54:10We were talking about there's performative type speaking, right? Which there's a place for i suppose personally wayne by the way didn't ever really raise his voice when he spoke yep um for me when someone's that way i tend to lean in um now you can't be monotone the entire time but what's you don't seem to have that style and i don't either what's the difference between like performative speaking and what i think what you're some people i think that are that teach it's almost like they think they're on broadway or acting or something that's not speaking yeah That's acting. That's a whole other industry.

54:45Speaking is depth of connection with people, right? At least to me. What's the difference between that? Because I think a lot of people think I can't speak because they think it's almost like playing the guitar or singing. There's a performance happening here. I don't really, it's not that there isn't an exaggerated part of my personality that will come out from time to time, but I'm not performing, nor do I want to learn performance skills to connect with people. That's not how I look at it. How do you look at it? Some of the best speakers in the world, and you're one of them, and I bet if you have like an aura ring or something where you're tracking your heart rate, I bet that there's not that much of a change between standing in the green room and being out on that stage right out there.

55:24Do you feel like that's true? Yes. Yeah. So I think that if you can be who you are and confident enough who you are offstage to onstage, not only are you going to be just more relatable, because just like we were talking about. People want the 300 ,000. Like, tell me the story that I can relate to. It's the same as how we're coming across. I mean, if you have this just, like, I can't relate to that kind of performative, then you're going to start to lose people. And so I also say, speaking for me isn't the finish line. It's a starting block. I want speaking to lead to books. I want speaking to lead to this, meeting people.

56:06And if there is a role I have to keep up in all these other things, that's exhausting. I feel so bad for some people who are like, play it a character on TV, that everyone expects that character of them. And it's like, no, I am not that person. I'm me. And that's kind of like, if I'm going to make it, I want to make it being me. Because one, One, I just, I think it's more fun that way. But two, I'm like, I don't have the energy to keep up a role in all these other rooms. You're so right. Hey, Mir, when I was younger, there was a different me up there. Yeah. So draining. Okay. I have to turn into this guy out there today.

56:45Like, I don't have to do it anymore. I just left the green room and I've walked out and I'm now me. All right. Last question. By the way, I haven't done a lot of interviews where I'm like, I really wish we had more time. I know. Same. Yeah. Thank you. That makes me feel good. Thank you. Speaking of energy, this is off speaking. off everything we've talked about three-year-old one-year-old okay and um i remember those days i think probably added being a mom over a dad there's just stuff moms typically do that dads don't always do yeah so unfortunately women get asked this question more than men but it's i did ask it if you were a man as well but like that's a lot do you have a system or strategy or are you You're just like losing it all the time because life's crazy.

57:31Because a lot of people are saying, I'm not going to start my second business. I'm not going to start my career because almost like their kids are the excuse not to do something, right? Because my kids are this age. Well, now my kids are teenagers. So how do you hold all that in place and still have joy? Well, one, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of that question because I am all for ask me anything but ask the man too. I mean, there's so many times I get, well, like, who's watching your kids? Their dad. No one asked the guy that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I had Jessica Mendoza on for ESPN, and she says, I'm so glad you asked me it that way.

58:05Yes. Because she goes, I've noticed men don't get asked this question. I said, I'm asking the dudes, too, right at that age. But it is, if we're being honest, there are things with moms, I think, that are additionally taxing and responsible. Oh, sure. That is different for a dad. Yeah, of course. But the point being, go for it. and I was sharing this with someone the other day. I, cause you know, right now in their book launch, we just had a conference. I'm on your show. There's so many great kind of shiny, sparkly things in my career right now. People are like, you're on fire. How are you doing this?

58:39I'm like, childcare. I have, uh, my parents are close by. I didn't have any, um, you know, we have someone that helps clean our house. We have someone who helps, uh, comes in meal preps. And so I think it's important to remember all of the load that a lot of women and men carry behind like every woman on fire is a village she could afford. I can afford this village right now of all of this help in my house so that I can come here and be with you and that I can do this. But that's also a choice. like there's kind of when you start to have a family and at least for me I wasn't sure where the chips would fall of am I going to want help in my career or at home I'm going to need help somewhere where is it going to be and I realized with a lot of guilt that came with it I'm being honest that I wanted that help at home because I really love building and my husband and I had this conversation because I always felt like every time I got on a plane to speak or any time there was work and I had to say goodbye.

59:43It was a have to, not a get to. And the way I was explaining it to my kids was like, I have to go. Instead of, I get to go meet with this guy, Ed. I get to go speak on stage. So we came to this conclusion that I hope any other working moms or dads can maybe feel free to take this. Is my parenting philosophy now is I want my kids to see me trying. that is, I think, more important to me than any, you know, thing that I might be able to like, sit down and tell them for five minutes is they actually watched mommy try to build something. They, I brought my daughter to like, my son to this, you know, book launch event and they, and you know, they're one in three, you don't really get it now, but I'm like, no, they're going to see me not just succeeding, but also not getting it.

1:00:37And I want them to see it all because they're watching me right now wondering what's possible for them, and I want their answer to be anything. Very good. I have to tell you, I've enjoyed this so much today. Yeah, I forgot we were recording, to be honest. Seriously, I lost myself in the conversation. Yeah, same. You're wonderful. Same to you. I appreciate it. Thank you. You're needed. Thank you. Yeah. I'm going to take you around the world. Do you have a valid passport? You don't need that anymore. Where can they find you, number one? Oh, yes. You can find me, LinkedIn, Instagram, Jess Ekstrom, Making It Without Losing It, wherever books are sold.

1:01:17I do send out a text every Monday. That's just like a thought starter for your week, whether it's a quote or question. Text me the word hype to 704-228-9495. You can meet me there. Look at you get that in there. That was good. Yeah. You're a pro. Thanks. You're a pro. Wasn't this good, you guys? Don't you love this when you get introduced to somebody new and she's already killing it and making millions and you're like, oh, if she was a stock, I'd be buying her because it's going to keep going up. Congratulations on your beautiful family and everything you're doing. Share it, you guys. Share this episode.

1:01:49This is why we do the show right here, what you experienced today. God bless you all. Max out your life.

1:02:00This is the Ed Myland Show.

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