Managing Your Mental Health w/ Dr. Caroline Leaf

24:05Oh, if it is once a week, am I having the same behaviors? Why am I doing that withdrawing? How often am I withdrawing? What other things am I doing? Why do I think I'm doing that? So you work through each of those signals and try and get some more. Don't stay too long on those two steps And then you write Now you don't journal, you write, you dump You literally dump what you've gathered awareness of And what you have reflected on Because the first step was to gather awareness The second step was to do this reflection thing And then you dump it down on And literally in mind Just write it all over the page I've developed a system called the MetaCog And for kids it's the BubbleCog And it's basically writing in a way that looks like a tree So it's starting from the middle and it's working around in circles and branches and colors and arrows, and everything's connected.

24:50Everything's either on a line, in a bubble. If you don't like doing that, just write any old way. But try to write dimensionally. Don't do it in lines. Try and just put it all over the page because it brings in, forces the two sides of the brain to work together, creates a very strong connection between the conscious and the subconscious through the bridge of the subconscious. And it starts diving deep. I mean, it's like I can tell you now that when I work with patients that had symptoms of schizophrenia. This is an extreme example, but just to show you how well this works, we would have them just basically medicoge out what all these steps I'm going through, and they would have one whole personality on this side and they'd be continuing the same conversation in another hall.

25:28So you'd see the shift and then we could show them, hey, look what's going on. And from there we could unpack and find roots and things like that. So it's phenomenal in getting insight. Now you spoke about introspection earlier on. Introspection, insight, it means diving into the depths of the non-conscious. That's the most intelligent part of us. So is writing part of step two or is that step three? Step three. So writing is step three. Sorry. Gather awareness, step one. Reflect, step two. Writing, step three. You're bringing order out of chaos. You're getting those three steps are taking deeper, deeper, deeper, getting increasing your introspection, insight, pulling up things that are associated.

26:01Now that is things all over the page. A lot of it won't make sense. Things may shock you that come out. Day one, not really. But as you progress through the days, more and more will come up. And, for example, around day seven, people start saying, oh, I never saw this connection. Day 14, like insight into, oh, that's associated with that. I didn't see that. This is why I'm doing this. So there's tremendous growth if you don't force it. You just go through the cycle. I want to interrupt you, but I want to ask you. Go ahead. Do you think during that awareness in the writing that you are uncovering some of the things that may trigger you as well?

26:34Totally. So it's step four. Excellent question. Step four is looking at what you've gathered awareness, reflected on, and written. You look, what are my triggers? What are the patterns? This has happened. What can I do? So step four is moving towards reconceptualization, reconstruction, healing, putting plant food on the roots to heal them. It's leading to that acceptance. You're not going to know why someone raped a child, why someone did this. That's their story. But that's your story. So you need to find out, I'm not crazy. I don't have a broken brain. I'm not genetically flawed. I don't have a mental illness.

27:05I'm showing up like this because of what happened to me. I can't answer why. I have to get to a certain level of acceptance, but at least I know why. It's not me, it's because of. And that helps you heal and move forward. So it's very progressive. It's not walking in circles round and around and around. You know, this is where you can bring in things like this, or psychodynamic theory and ACD. There's a lot of different therapy techniques that people can bring in, experiences from EMDR and into all these, because this is a system. Yeah, into these spaces. What's the fifth step? The fifth step is an action, active reach.

27:38So you go into from the triggers and things like that, you want to move towards an antidote for today, an action for today. So what can I do today to keep me in a safe space? I've done the work for today. I'm not going to fall back into working on this anymore. I've got to get going through the day. And also your brain and mind need a rest. They get tired. So it's an action. It's like a visualization, a statement, a combination, a little prayer, an affirmation. So this is where you would fit an affirmation or a CBT type technique, like maybe a little visualization exercise. So it's something that you do and say, maybe something as simple as, I can do this, I don't know how, and then visualize a rainbow.

28:14I mean, it could be something as simple as that to an actual little technique or it could be a breathing technique. So it's an action that keeps you going through the day, which helps you focus on the fact that you are moving towards healing. So you're removing energy from this thing because this process has brought this from the non-conscious to the conscious and it's weakened these branches. In the non-conscious, it's strong and driving. When the non-conscious and conscious are working together, then this is weakened. The protein branches, the chemicals, so I can start restructuring and reorganizing.

28:46I've got to tell you what I'm thinking when you're doing this, because this applies to two different people. So everybody stay in here. So those are the five steps to sort of begin to rewire yourself or change your brain. The other part of me listening to this is if you're thinking, I really don't have a lot of these issues of anxiety or worry or depression, I also think that's the formula to create a change. Like if I had a goal and ambition, I'd become aware of what I wanted, right? Touching. I'd have all these reflections about it. I would then write about it. And I like the idea of it not being linear like a book, but actually all over the place.

29:18So that's almost like a dream personal vision board or dream board that you're doing. Then I'd think about what were the triggers I need to create to generate this state. It could be snapping my fingers. It could be seeing something. It could be walking into my office. It could be getting into my car. It could be a particular person. So I'd use that trigger to then create that state. And then obviously the fifth would be what's an action that I can take towards this step. You've got it. So that cycle can be used to uncover trauma, you know, reverse trauma, create brain health, but can also be a creative process in order to change your life.

29:50So you are brilliant because that's exactly where I started my research. 38 years ago with people with traumatic brain injuries and learning disabilities and people that just wanted to improve their life. They just wanted. And it's called brain building. So it's the neuro cycle, and that was the first iteration of this thing was to develop brain building. So it was helping kids learn. So getting data in, as opposed to deconstructing, it was constructing. So it's taking from the knowledge in school to learn for an exam. Or what is the goal in your vision? So that's the brain building aspect of the neuro cycle.

30:18This is huge right here. I've got to tell you something because everyone always wants to create change. They're like, all right, do I get a vision board out? So this is a five-step process to actually do it and to do it reinforced. Of course. And by the way, in 63 days, you're a different human being. Totally different. I do a thing. You're talking about visualization techniques. I just share this with you and then maybe you can speak to why it might work. So everyone asks me, I don't visualize very well. Yes, you do. You just need to get quiet. And it's a muscle you build. You know, when you decide to start visualizing your life, it is difficult.

30:51But one thing I've done is I've created, I teach it to a lot of my athletes is I use what I call like a highlight reel technique. So what I actually start with is I start, I've never said this on the show because it's part of my private work, but I want you to speak to it. I actually start by visualizing memories from my life that are highlights. So it could be, for example, the birth of my son, the birth of my daughter, a home run I hit in baseball, an award I got, a sale that I closed that was important. These are things my brain are already familiar with, to your point earlier. It's already been wired.

31:23I've already repeated the emotion. It's already in there. And so I see those things and those are easy for me to recall because they're familiar. And then I move to what I want. So my brain, I think, begins to think they're one big highlight reel. Is there any data to prove that that's true? Meaning I'm already visualizing what I've already, something I want. I've seen an achievement. I've seen an achievement. And then I see the one that I want to achieve. And for me, my brain more easily sees the future when I start with things that I'm already familiar with in my past. Because I think we do that in reverse.

31:56So if we've had a traumatic, someone's hurt us in our life. We see this, we repeat it over and over, and then we then regenerate it in our real life with the next relationship. And that's why people end up dating the same person over and over again in a different body. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Okay, so I'm jumping out of my chair with excitement because you've said exactly the correct thing. Okay. So what you've just described, remember I said a moment ago, I spoke about how I'll recall this conversation because it's a great conversation. Yes. That's what we're talking about here. So you are recalling these.

32:26You're recalling those and you're using those to unmask your natural resilience. Yes. See? That's exactly right. So I actually call these insurance policies. Okay. So they literally, so when I work with a person to actually be able to build their brain, we're building an insurance policy. So you should be spending time on doing exactly that. So as you do that, you activate a whole different way that your energy flows across the two sides of your brain. You're going to the highest level of intelligence. You unmask resilience. You increase your wisdom. You tune into the depths of your non-conscious where intelligence, pretty much your intelligence resides.

32:58Right. Because your conscious is basically a workhorse and it's guided by your non-conscious. So what we've got to see is what is dominant in the non-conscious. Now, your non-conscious is a gentle lady, gentle man. And it's basically always looking for the things that are blocking this growing and keeping you stuck in those. So it's on your side. But you have to tune in to what's coming up. So when you describe when you want to do something difficult, you first think of something good. What you've done is you've listened to wisdom from your non-conscious, which is that process. You've then called those up.

33:32You've activated your resilience. You've put yourself in a highly intelligent, wise state. Now you're in a state that's more able to cope with it. So when I work with a patient, for example, I would never start with that. I would say, OK, let's talk about, you know, your favorite moments or your tell me a story about tell me a great movie. Yes. Let's talk about a great book, anything, and then we would focus on that. When they were in that state, I knew that I had got their mind-brain connection, their psycho-neurobiology. I feel like thinking about the things that have been positive in my life or experiences creates a neurochemistry to which I can create out of it.

34:04That's exactly what you do. Right. Yes, you have. You've changed all the flow. These change. They increase gamma, which is a way that you want to flow. Okay. And when your eyes are open, you want like this vertical low gamma across the whole brain. And then there's certain other patterns. I don't want to go into the details. And that's got to go into have a certain beta pattern and so on. Those energy waves, when they are flowing in that state, they activate the different parts of the brain to then be on high alert to respond and do what they're designed to do, which then impacts your neurochemistry, then your endocrine system, your cardio.

34:39Everything then comes together. And you are in this prime state. Your HPA axis is now on high alert, and you now are in the ideal state for solution finding. This is so good. You guys, this is why I do the show right here. So let me just give you this again. Step one, gather awareness. Step two, reflect. Step three, write, play, draw. Step four, recheck. Step five, active reach, which is basically what we've been describing here. What about physical movement and brain health? And it's not in here, but I want to ask you about that. I find that my anxiety and depression and concern and worry or angst is often something physically I'm doing.

35:14I feel like there's a physical nature to it. And I have found that when I change my physiology, I tend to feel like I've changed. Maybe your physical body is your unconscious mind. I don't know. I'll let you answer this. But when my body begins to move in a certain way, I have found that to be a pathway out of some of the negative emotions that I'm feeling. And I'm wondering, even with children, is part of the mental health issues we're seeing that they're less and less active physically, meaning a lot more video gaming, right? A lot more stuff on their phone, a lot more stuff on their Mac or their iPad.

35:48Whereas when I was a kid, I'm sure mental health issues were very prevalent. But we were outside playing. We were playing football. We were running around. We were running. There was nothing to do inside, right? So we were outdoors more. And I know that's not really part of what we're talking about here. But I'm just curious. Is it related? No, it's totally related. And part of, you'll see in my books, in my NeuroCycle app, where all these steps are, the NeuroCycle app, I literally walk you through the process. And in the children's book, the active reaches, I encourage that physical activity.

36:15I encourage, and you'll see throughout the actual five steps, you can bring in the physical activity in different ways. So basically your body, your mind stores in three places. Mind, which is all around you, these gravitational fields and so on. Brain, the trees, but in the body, in the cells. So therefore, that's why we have body memory. That's why when you have a recall and something that you get your body response as well. So that body response is really important. Like, for example, if you're trying to get your children to talk after school and they don't want to talk and let them have a little rest, but go for a walk.

36:45Start doing something. And the action activates and releases. So it's not that the non-conscious is the body. It's that the non-conscious is operating in the body. It's your driving system. It's mind driving. So your non-conscious is the thing that's always using every part of you. Your mind, brain, and body are on your side. We have this psychoneurobiological link that is our superpower, that literally when we understand how to read it, we can move forward. So you explained. You said that if you feel angst, you can feel your body feeling it. Angst, emotional warning signal. Your body feeling it, physical warning signal.

37:22You're probably not totally focused initially on your behaviors and your perspective. Then you move. As you move, you start unlocking and getting an idea of, and that's full under the behavioral signal as well. Then it starts unlocking the others and you start getting into that space where you can work on going through this process. And then you can fit movement in anywhere. The reason I feel so big about physical stuff and brain mental health is like, take your spouse for a second. You think about the moments of your life that you feel the most connected. Let's just be honest. Some of it can be your sexual time with that.

37:53Why? What's happening? Something physical is happening between the two of you. When I want to open up and like with my children or something like that, when I really want to get them to talk, you're so brilliant because I found, you know, putting them on the couch or sitting on their bed is OK. But if we take a walk, we take a walk to your point where we're changing something there, you know, even laying on the couch with your spouse watching Netflix, when they're actually touching each other and laying on each other compared to when, you know, they're on one side of the couch and you're on the other.

38:23There's a deeper connection when something physical is involved. The other part of it that you write about in the book that I've never really looked at before, and you talk about this particularly with children. So the book is written, you know, Dr. Lee's books have been for everybody. This one's more specifically guided towards children, but really everything in there. Parents for children. Right. So to have parents help parents help their children. Yeah, parents and children. Right. But sleep. So if you have a child or yourself, because I know this is true with me, when I'm not sleeping, something's not so good with me typically, right?

38:53But it's interesting to me. I never thought about sleep when it came to my children. If they're not sleeping, that's probably an indicator or something. So talk about sleep and children and even how it relates to each of us individually. Absolutely. Well, what I've tried to do in this book is to try and find the things that are no hot button topics to try and help parents have a and to teach the neuro cycle in such a way that it's super simple. It's very practical, whatever. So I take areas like trauma, sleep, et cetera. And I'm glad you've mentioned the sleep because there's so much scariness around sleep, too.

39:20because you go to a doctor, one of the first things they'll say about you, is your child sleeping? Are you sleeping? They have to sleep or they're going to die. It's not quite that extreme, but it's very fear-mongering. And yes, there is a valid point to sleep. Sleep is very important. But how many hours of sleep a person should sleep in a day, we don't actually know. And also people have different patterns of sleep. So this thing that your child must sleep eight hours a day is not necessarily true. Yes, exactly. But if your child isn't sleeping and there is a persistent pattern of bad sleep, there's something going on that's definitely would be classified under your behavioral warning signals and it's worth investigating and that's why i actually put sleep neurocycles into the book on things there's different ones that you can do because preparing yourself for sleep starts when you wake up in the morning you know it's like when you wake up in the morning the first thing is as the chemistry starts readjusting so that you can become conscious at that moment to train yourself to just how what what what are my four signals what am i feeling am i complaining what Am I feeling sad?

40:17Am I complaining? Quickly assess. Do a quick assessment of your four signals. So it's what are my emotions? What's my body doing? What are my behaviors in this moment? Like I know I'm lying in bed, but am I tense? And what's my perspective? I don't want to do today. If you can catch that, those four things can take you 10 seconds and can really, really prepare you for a night's sleep. It sets you into it, opens your mind that you can actually then face the day. So that's one thing you can do. I've got a whole thing there that you can do, a sleep neuropsycho for children as they wake up. Then if you see there's a pattern of children not sleeping, it's to find a time during the day that's a good time.

40:52Either early evening when they've been to school, they've had dinner, they've played. That's sort of a good time to kind of work around. But you can find, don't do this when they're exhausted. And then you can do a whole neuropsycho to try and work through what the cause could be. When we don't sleep, the main reason we don't sleep, and a lot of people will maybe not agree with me here, But the main reason we don't sleep is because we have unresolved issues that are scared of. Yes, I sure agree. It changes your energy in your brain and your brain, all the things, the melatonin and all those things.

41:20Because there's so many cases. And I actually give a case in the study in the book of quite a traumatic situation of a child who was abused physically and sexually from three months of age but just could not sleep through the night. And they did everything, all the sleep aids, all the white noise, everything you can possibly do. And not that those don't work. They are definitely going to facilitate and help. But the core issue was the child's abuse and the impact of that, although the child was out of that unsafe environment, that you had to deal with what was going on. And that child was very young.

41:51So once the parent just happened to come across my stuff and do the neurocycle and the child saw the parent doing it and started doing it. And within four days, this child was sleeping. Now, this was an eight-year-old. They didn't use this book because this book wasn't out yet. But the child saw what the mom was doing, saw the change in the mom. Because the kids watch us. And this was an eight-year-old. And said, I want to do what you're doing. And so she adapted it as best she could. And this child started sleeping within four days. So the core issue there was a trauma that was unresolved. And you said it yourself.

42:22I know. I do. If I've got something that I haven't dealt with or something's worried me or I have that phone call before bed that sits, that's it. My sleep's gone until I've dealt with it. Can I give you one with children that I think is unsaid? And I know you're such a person of faith, so I'm going to give you what helps me sleep. And it leads to this unresolved stuff. And I just want to say this to everybody. It's prayer. And let me say why. So prayer at night is a chance for me to take my burdens and put them on my higher power. In my case, Jesus. But whatever your faith is. And I know you share my faith.

42:55And I wonder how many people are praying with their children at night. Because this is an opportunity for your children to probably open up. I think it's an opportunity for them to relieve themselves of their burdens. And I have found that when I have really deep, beautiful prayer, even if it's brief, that I sleep better at night because there's a perspective that I get that I'm protected. And I really wonder that. The second thing is I want to ask you about both these. So this is for adults, but it also affects our children. More and more our children are on their screens late at night. I know this is just a brain issue.

43:31So not necessarily trauma, but there's all this data about blue screen time and how it's difficult to sleep. I don't know if it's accurate or not, but I know there's when you're doing homework, it's stressful. I think people let their children do their homework too late at night. And now that's a problem. Now it's a stressor. Now it's a trauma. Also, they're on their screen. And a lot of these schools put so much homework on their children. This is being real. Yeah, the school system is a problem. So when your kids get home from school, wouldn't it be smarter to get them a to start doing their homework earlier?

43:59so they're off of their screens and away from stressful stuff before sleep. Also true for you as an adult. And just prayer. I know it's not a major part of what's happening in here, but am I right that both of those things would probably make an impact on sleep and maybe then their mental health? Absolutely. You know, if you look at prayer in terms of any religion or any philosophy or any belief, if people don't even believe in anything, it can be seen as a way of just trying to organize yourself and then believe that it's not just me, there's something more. And we know what's common to all mankind, and that's love.

44:34So to talk to a child about loveness, so you could do a loveness neurocycle, you could call it a prayer neurocycle, whatever you want, but you can actually say, okay, well, let's look at what am I feeling right now and why do we think we feel that? And you could go through the five steps, and that's your prayer, and your little active reach could maybe be in some, quote, a little scripture. It could be a visualization of something, whatever, a beautiful quote or something like that. So that is basically a form of prayer because you're tuning into an unconscious, which is your spirit, which is your wisdom, and you're teaching a child to do that.

45:03So yes, it is a form of unloading your burdens into either you believe it's Jesus, God, loveness, whatever. I love to talk about godness and loveness because that's something that's relatable to anyone. So you kind of step into that space and there's so much physics behind this too and quantum physics and science behind how you're collapsing the consciousness. I mean, it's just we could talk for another two hours about that so yes totally i do believe that and it'll set your brain waves to a point where your brain can start shifting into sleep mode which will then have a neurochemical effect on the the melatonin and those kinds of things and controlling adrenaline and so it will have it has what i've shown with my work is that when you use mind stuff and specifically the tool of the neurocycle which is mind management and as i said you can put whatever you want in that you are changing your psychoneurobiology so you're changing cortisol levels you're changing homocysteine levels.

45:52You're changing all the things that can keep you awake. You are getting them to the point where that you're dropping, changing, getting brain balance with the brain waves, that kind of stuff. So it's real. I mean, that's very, very real. I don't think I've done an interview in like 45 or 50 minutes with more stuff. We've done thought trees. We've done the neuro cycle. We've done the non-conscious mind. We've done, you know, all of these different things here. We've done the highlight reel, which I kicked in here today. If I was asking you, I get to ask you one more question. Did you want me to answer the second part of the other question?

46:25Yes, yes, yes. What was the second part of the other question? The second part of the other question was blue screen time. Oh, yes, okay. Bullying, social media, all that stuff, it's immersed us in stimulation. So it's good, very good, and bad. All we need to do is teach our kids to manage it. That's the key. It's not going away. So it's not a bad thing if we know how to manage it. So it's just finding what works for you and your family. In terms of blue screens and all those things, there's a lot of science that supports and contradicts the concept. Listen, if a person's worked up, it doesn't matter what you do about blue screens.

46:56They're still going to stay awake. So sometimes people, if they're relaxed enough and they're watching their film or whatever before they go to sleep, it's not going to be an issue. It's very much up to the individual. It's how we are managing it. You've got to experiment with your child and with yourself and see what works for you. That's really important. So it's a bio-individual aspect. but just to bear in mind if we don't manage the immersion that we live in before for example very quick kids would get bullied at school that's not anything bullying's been around since the beginning the difference is it follows them home now it's 24 it's the immersion it's an immersion versus an experience an immersion experience versus an intermittent experience and when you have that distinction that's what so we have to learn to manage the immersion so I mean I can go for hours about that alone but that kind of gives you I would love you to stay for hours I would actually love that you know unfortunately you have somewhere to go I can sit here all day I know I could stay I'll be chatting to you as well.

47:45Let me ask you one last question because I think people want to know this. I have a very good friend. I've been thinking about the entire interview who has a child that's just really had chronic struggles with mental health issues over and over to the point where they've done cutting and it's gotten really severe. And that child probably, in my opinion, should be more physically active. I know they have prayer in their life that neural cycle could be a game changer for them. So I can't wait for them to hear this. I really, really believe the neural cycle could be a game changer. and to think that maybe in 63 to a certain amount of days, if it's more traumatic, you said a little bit longer, that someone can create positive and or remove negative things in their life.

48:21Yeah, and do balance the two together. When is, I guess the last question I would have for today is, because it's worth asking, when is it time for medication with somebody in their brain? Is that something that, you know, you must believe in some cases if someone's, you know, schizophrenic that potentially they need medication? Or do you believe medication never? When does someone take a step and the risks of doing so? Okay, so loaded question. First of all, just to quickly refer to your friend's child who's self-harming, what is the age just very quickly? Teenager. Teenager, okay. So what they need, what we all need is to feel empowered and not to feel that there's something wrong with us.

48:57And our current biomedical model will say that you've got a broken brain. And so that creates a sense of hopelessness. We also need to help our children develop psychological immunity. So not just immune system, like our immune system helps, you know, we build our immune system. You build your muscles in resistance training. We've got to build our psychological immunity. And what we've taken from our children in a lot of our current models is that ability to say it's okay to be a mess. Let's work through this mess together. So a huge part of my work in the book that I've just released is about you as a parent knowing how to manage your own – get your own – They model what they see.

49:31They catch it. And model. Exactly. And then allowing a child the space. No matter what they say to you, no judgment, no compassion, but saying, listen, I see how you're showing up. I validate. I recognize. let's work through this together. Here's a system that's scientific that we can work through together and the key, Ed, is empowerment. You have to get a person empowered to change their relationship with themself. And when that happens, that's when the growth comes. The cutting, the self-harm, whatever it is, alcohol addiction, whatever it may be, is coming from, yes, the trauma. You can go through all that.

50:03I bet you that child probably has had so much therapy that they can tell you why they're doing it to a certain extent. But to get the change in a person's life, it starts with feeling, okay, I am empowered to do this. It's okay to be like this. It's not me. I'm responding to life circumstances. Here's a plan for me to be able to move forward and be empowered to actually rewise that my brain and my body do what my mind, what I know my wise mind wants it to do. So that's a simple answer to that. Medication is a very complex answer, but I'm going to do the easiest, quickest version. Up front, I'm not telling anyone to stop their medication immediately because of the withdrawal.

50:36Let's make a quick distinction between drugs and medicine. Medicines are aimed to try and fix a problem like insulin for diabetes. We can test for diabetes. We know there's a biological cause, and we've got a drug that's fairly specific to the problem. When it comes to a child cutting, which is a behavior, depression, perspective of life sucks, battling, all the things that you describe with your friend's child, which is obviously this is very surface what I'm saying, but that cluster of things, that is not a brain disease that's going to be fixed by a drug. That's not coming from something wrong in the brain and a chemical imbalance.

51:17It's coming from some cluster of toxic issues and things that that child doesn't know how to process. Self-cutting, for example, is so much pain inside yourself that it's too much inside, so it's easier to transfer the pain to the cutting so that that pain detracts from the internal pain. And that's an energy that's – no energy is lost. It's only transferred. So it's transferred energy. So we must transfer a child's energy into being able to create safe spaces so that they can talk to us as parents, not just the therapist, but us as parents, caregivers, people that they trust. Peers are fantastic for supporting.

51:50And that will help them sort of transfer that energy. So a drug is something that like alcohol, cocaine, and psychotropics, they fall under the same category. They're not fixing anything. They're not restoring. They are drugs. And a drug is a psychoactive substance, so it changes the state of the brain versus a medicine is trying to fix something. So antidepressants aren't fixing chemical imbalance. That's been disproved. It's a myth. There are pillars of psychiatry that are used to say that you've got a chemical imbalance, et cetera. They're not doing that. What they're doing is they are providing temporary relief.

52:24So if someone is in such a bad state, so for example, someone's having very extreme delusions and hallucinations, which is not a disease of schizophrenia, it's schizophrenia symptoms. So instead of saying schizophrenia, bipolar, et cetera, as a label or a diagnosis, which is very unscientific and inaccurate and actually does harm, research has shown to the person. It doesn't recognize the enormity of what they're going through. It's rather, let's say, they describe it as behaviors because of something huge in their life. And let's look at this whole person. They don't need a disease label and a medication to validate what they're going through.

53:00It's valid enough for them to get the support they need. A label and a drug, put it in a little box and make it small, telling them the story, letting them talk, going through that process, gives it the size that it needs, if that makes sense. So the drug, the way I would recommend drugs is to see them as drugs, not medications. and if someone's in an extreme state, temporarily, like you don't, if you have a headache, you take an ibuprofen to relieve the symptoms, but you don't go on ibuprofen chronically, in other words, every day. That's how we should look at these things. Great answer. So if someone's in a really bad way, Madison, and by the way, she also said in the very beginning that if you're on medication, she's not encouraging you to get off of it.

53:37And if people do want to withdraw, I have interviewed top scientists in the world that are drug withdrawal experts and they can go and listen to my podcast and they can search through drug withdrawal and they'll have the top experts with all the resources to guide them through that process. What a remarkable conversation. It just flew by. It did. It did fly by. You're brilliant. You're exactly how I introduced you. You're very kind. I think the neuro cycle can change people's lives, undoing trauma, undoing negative thoughts, but also creating your life through the neuro cycle. So, guys, I'd pour myself into that.

54:09You can get any of Dr. Leif's books, but right now you've got How to Help Your Child Clean up their mental mess, which boy, do we need a guide to building resilience and managing mental health, which all of you and I need. And we have Brainy, which is a toy for the kids that we've created. There's a Brainy character throughout the book, Ed, and we've made toys as well. So it's really something about the parent and the child. The child can hold us up. You're awesome. You guys, get the book, share the episode, change people's lives. It's that simple. We're the number one growing show on the planet because you all share it every single week because I get brilliant people to sit across from me and we get the best from them in the hour we spend with them.

54:45Thank you. Thank you. You're brilliant yourself. It was an incredible interview. You asked great questions. Thank you. I just get to sit here and ask you stuff. It's easy. All right, everybody. I love you. God bless you. Max out your life. This is The Ed Milet Show.