Master The Art Of Communication w/ John Maxwell

0:04This is the Ed Milet Show. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. You know, every once in a while, I like to use my platform to highlight an up-and-comer. You know, like a rookie. Just somebody who needs some elevation in their life. And so today is one of the things. I'm just kidding. My guest today is writing his 88th book. He is a legend. He is a mentor to me. He's a friend I'm getting emotional already And he is a hero of mine And I aspire to be more like him In my life And I'm so grateful that he's in my life I'm so grateful that he's going to share this time with us today For the third time on the show And every time he's on, the downloads go crazy And he's also one of the greatest communicators who's ever lived And he's written a book about it And if anybody is qualified to write this book, it is this man.

1:06His new book is called The 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication. Apply them and make the most of your message. And he does it every time I'm with him. John Maxwell, welcome back to the show, brother. And it's so good to be with you. And when you're talking about my stuff, let me tell you something. I could just flip that and ditto right back to you. My gosh, you talk about great communicators. every time I hear you, you just take me to a whole new level. I learn from you. And so I love you very much. And I love the impact. I love your heart for people. And I love the impact that you're making around the world.

1:44And every time we had you come out and do our Live to Lead conference last year that went all around the world. And I'm telling you, they're still talking about your talk. and it just had in fact I had to come up after you were done and follow you and I really wanted to get up and just say it's over there are some times when the benediction is so good you don't need another benediction just kind of close it and go home and you just killed it we're still chasing that ball we haven't found it but people tell us it's in one direction so we're still trying to find it I love you and I love being on your show and thanks for having me and let's have some fun with the people.

2:24Yeah, I got to tell you, thank you. That was one of the most nervous times I've ever had speaking because it was you and you're sitting in the front row and I wanted to do such a good job. I don't know why I'm so emotional today. Well, let me tell you something. You killed it. It just moved me and the people. I mean, they're still talking about the talk. Thank you. So anyway. Well, you're qualified. Go ahead. What were you going to say? Whenever we're together, it works. It just works. It does. But when you're on the stage, you listen. By the way, John's not just a great communicator on the stage.

3:00He's incredible, as you can see here, but also one-on-one in his presence. He has this ability to make you feel like the most important person. Here's what he does. He makes an impact. And that's what he teaches you in this book. And I read the whole book, John. By the way, you just got it to me. And it's like any of your books. Like I can read them more than one time and I can usually read them in one or two settings because they're easy reads. You do something you talk about in the book. We might as well just start there. You have the ability to take really complicated things and make them seem simple.

3:32Yeah. And you talk about that as actually one of the laws in the book of being able to be a great communicator. Is that something that you do? I'm sure you do it intentionally, but do you do it naturally? Well, I do it intentionally. Let me say this. I was a good student, but I wasn't a great student. And so a lot of times when I was in college or in a classroom, I would want the professor to break it down and make it much more simple. I would look around the room. I said, am I the only one that's having a hard time here and not maybe grasping and learning like I need to? And so really, as a student, I worked on helping.

4:12When I would hear a talk, I would say, how could that be reduced so I can apply it to my life? And so it almost started as a student. And I learned to reduce things and bring them down. And I tell people all the time, I'm a communicator, not an educator. An educator takes something simple and makes it complicated. I mean, that's just who they are. I mean, honestly, if you're in the education world, if you're not confused, they're not pleased. You know what I'm saying? But then a communicator takes something complicated and makes it simple. And so my whole goal is to make things very palatable for people.

4:49One of the things I teach in the book is the fact that if you have to keep explaining what you just said, you haven't said it right the first time. I mean, and how many times we have a person explain and explain. I just sit there and think, why didn't you take some time on the front end to simplify this so that everybody can apply it to their life? And there are three, real quickly, there are three kind of, I take the simplistic, I start with simplistic. And simplistic is not good. It's fast and it's easy, but it's not really deep and helpful. And it's a half truth, it's never a whole truth. So if I say things like, experience is the best teacher, that's a simplistic statement.

5:36But it's not true. If it were true, then as people got older, everybody would get better. And I know a whole bunch of people, they're getting older, but they're not getting better. The experience isn't helping them at all. Although experience is not the best teacher, reflection and learning from that experience is the best teacher. Wow. So how do I get from experience as the best teacher to reflection and learning from experience as the best teacher? Well, you've got to go from simplistic to complicated or complex. In other words, you've got to wrestle with the statements. And you've got to contextually take them from every angle until you can come to something that is really solid and something that is really true and something that really works.

6:18And so just as simplistic as easy and fast, you know, complex, complicated is slow and deep. But once you come through that, and it takes a while to do that, once you come through it on the simple side now, it's fast. but it's deep. In other words, people can grab it real quick, but then they go home and they think about it, Ed, and they just can't get away from it. Like when you wrote the book, when you wrote the book, The Power of One More, that is so simple that you can grasp it immediately, but you can't, you have to spend a lot of time on it to work it out in your life. What a great point.

7:05Yeah, what a great point. And so here's the issue. I think in communication, when I was young, when I was a young communicator, I saw that I had charisma and I saw that I could probably get by on stage with having fun with people and enjoying them and making them laugh. And I came to this decision, am I going to wing it or am I going to work for it? And I was tempted to wing it. Because I could wing it and I could get by with it. See, here's the challenge. When you're gifted in a certain area, you can wing it and still be successful. Right. You can be in that top 20%. Yes. But to work for it, that's a whole different game.

7:54And in the law of simplicity, you have to work for this. You have to work for – work simple is hard work. But if you work for it, you can get in the top 2%. Yeah. And so what I tell people all the time is the tendency and the temptation is in giftedness is you don't give it all because you just don't have to give it all. I mean, it's just, it comes, but because you don't give it all, you do well, but you don't do very, very well. But if you would just work on that area of giftedness, you'd get that top 2%. And you know, as well as I do, if you're in the top 2%, whatever it is, you own whatever you want to own.

8:30The world is yours. and so simple i decided at a very young age in my 20s i was going to work for it i'm just going to work for it and i spent a lot of time i this morning i was i write every day this morning i was writing and i was wanting to make a statement and and i worked on a statement probably for 40 minutes and i would write it and i said that's not quite right gotta worry no no it's still still in a fit and then finally about 20 minutes i thought okay i got it there it is there it is So I get up and I make this statement and people say, oh my gosh, the guy just, that just flows out of him.

9:06No, no, it didn't flow out of me. It didn't either. It had to cook and work it inside of me a long time. But I get it to the place where it flows out of me. But it doesn't flow. Good stuff doesn't happen automatically. No. You know what I'm saying? When I tell people that I do that, too, that are other speakers, I kind of watch oftentimes their face kind of glaze over. Like, you really do that? I say, I do, because I do want to be as effective as I can. By the way, I should have started out by saying to everybody that you can go to 16lawsofcommunication.com, and that's with the one six in it, 16lawsofcommunication.com.

9:42You get the book, and I guess there's favorable pricing in there, too. You can actually get it for less. So 16lawsofcommunication.com, you can go get it. But listen, I can just say this with all conviction in the world. The best books I've read collectively in my life are John's books. And the best speaker that I admire, that I look up to is John. So when he writes a book on this topic, it is something that you need to have. And for the record, everybody, some of you who are listening to this are going, I'm afraid to speak. I don't know that I should be one. And one of the brilliant things in the book is, and I'll have you talk about this, John, is that a great speaker, and I have found this, I think when I was young, when I would speak, if I'm being honest, part of it was about me.

10:22Probably a significant part. Meaning, I wanted to impress them. I wanted to wow them. I wanted them to think I was great. That did a few things. One, I made less of a connection. But two, it put tremendous pressure on me because it was about me. And a lot of you that are afraid of speaking, that would probably be great at it, it's because you're approaching it already from it being about you. And if you would just shift the impact to the service of others, your peace about even trying to do it would change. And you'd be a 10 times better speaker. So that's one of the laws in the book too. So we might as well start there because I think some people need to come into this tent of speaking, John, to the tent of communication that thinks they don't belong in our tent and they do belong in the tent.

11:06Their flawed thinking is they think it's about them and that creates anxiety and fear, which is sort of ego driven. So talk about that for a second. 100%, my friend, 100%. It's the law of connecting. And the law of connecting just simply says communicators know that it's all about others. It's all about others. And I can identify exactly. When I started speaking, it was all about me. I mean, I hope they like me. I hope I say it right. Did I say it right? Oh my gosh. And it became like, I was a nervous bondo. Yes. Because I was, man, I hope I did okay. So when people say, John, what's the one thing?

11:47I know there are 16 laws, but what's the one thing? To be a great communicator. Well, the one thing, Ed, is you have to get over yourself. You just have to get over yourself. It is not about me. It's about the audience. It's not about me. It's about the small group I'm dealing with. It's not about me. It's about the one person I'm talking, having a one-on-one conference. It's all about them. And until I can get over myself, because if I can't, if it's about me, I can't, I can't really add value to you if I'm thinking about me. I'm not that good. I don't have the ability to think about me and think about you and be good on both ends.

12:23I'm a little limited. Maybe some, maybe some people can, but I can't. So if it's going to be about you, I've got to be thinking about you and it's, and I've got to be focused on you. and very quickly you'll realize John really wants to help me and add value to me. I mean, it's contagious and it's that connection. So I tell people to get over themselves. And, and, and, uh, so what we did it when, when this book released, we did a video and, uh, I told the people that were producing, I said, I want to start the video in the audience. I said, I want to, I want, I don't want you to shoot me on stage.

12:59And I was in the audience all by myself sitting in a chair. And they zoomed in me. And I said, this is where great speaking begins right here. I have to constantly be thinking about the people and how can I connect with them? What can I say? How can I help them? Where are they? You have to find them before you can lead them. You just don't start leading people. You just don't start speaking. You have to find them. And as soon as you find them, now all of a sudden you have the credit. So this whole get over myself, let me tell you a fun story. There's a company in Nashville. This guy has a very successful writing company.

13:40And he's read my books. In fact, he came to me. I didn't know him. He said, I built my business off your stuff. And he said, you ought to write songs based on your books. Well, I looked at him and said, man, I've never done that before. But you know me, I'm 76, But I keep growing. I keep learning. I keep I mean, why not try this? So I went to Nashville and he put me in the studio with like the guys that wrote number one hits. I mean, big hits. They were you know, I'm like I always say if you're at the head of the class, you're in the wrong class. Well, I should even been in the class on this one.

14:14I mean, these these guys were pros and I'm in there throwing that. And so we took the book on the laws of communication and I said, I would like to use the get over myself theme. And so we wrote a song called Get Over Myself. And so if you're a listener, all you got to do is go wherever you, you know, I don't know where you get your music, but wherever you get it, just, you know, get over myself. And the chorus says it all. It says, I got to find myself to know myself. I got to know myself to be myself. I got to be myself to improve myself. I got to improve myself so I can get over myself. So I can give myself to you.

14:52Oh, wow. That's very good. And the song is going crazy. The song's going crazy. I got another one from my book, Make Today Count, called Day by Day. And I got my Sometimes When Sometimes You Learn book or songs that will come out next month. But I'm having a blast writing these songs. And, of course, again, I'm the least of the least. And they're so kind they even let me in the studio with them. But I'm throwing this stuff up, and we're just having a blast. But I tell you, the moment that you think about the audience, and I can hardly wait to speak. I'm not nervous at all. I can hardly wait to speak because I'm going to go out and I'm going to give them something that is going to help their life.

15:34And that is so fulfilling and so enriching to me that it gets me over anything that is about me. Yeah. It's all about me. Are you getting ready to win a Grammy? This will be crazy. You're going to win a dang Grammy for your music now. I have no idea, but I know I'm having fun. You know, again. I don't know if you all understand this. John's 76 years old. And I think you all go, hey, man, Ed, you work hard. They see my social media and my pace. And I am telling you, this is not, I'm not being nice. John is everywhere all the time, crushing it, crushing it. Yet, like before he went on, he's telling me about golf that he just played.

16:17There's a way to have, I think one of the keys to longevity is that you do live a full, rich life, but you do bust your tail the entire time. John is, I've been with John, but I just got back from Europe. I'm going here. Now I'm in Tennessee. Oh, I got to fly to California. My gosh, am I getting outworked by John? And by the way, you can tell his enthusiasm level is through the roof as well.

16:40I want to ask you this, though. Did you just say you're not nervous when you speak? Do you not get nerves at all anymore? No, no. I think you tell a story, though, a time you did. I think you were going to Boston. I think it's going to Boston, maybe. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I study you. So you're going to Boston. As I think the story goes, you were replacing a speaker or something. But there's a great lesson in this story. Do you know the one I'm talking about? Oh, yeah. You're talking about Peter Lowe when he had his seminars. And he called me one day. And I was home. and he said that, oh gosh, the guy that was Superman in the movies.

17:19Chris Reeves. Yeah. What's his name? Reeves. Christopher Reeves. Yeah, Christopher Reeves. Christopher Reeves. Okay. He was sick and he was the last speaker on the day and he said, I can't speak today. And so Peter says, he called me in the morning and said, John, can you get up to Boston and fill in? And I said, well, yeah. So I jumped on a plane and I went up to Boston. And I got there just maybe 30 minutes before I was supposed to speak. And so I'm kind of backstage. They're getting me all hooked up. And then I find out they haven't told the crowd. Hello? They haven't told the crowd. And the Christopher Reeves is sick and isn't going to be here.

18:04The crowd, they've been staying all day waiting for Superman to come and show. and I'm backstage saying you haven't told them yet what do you mean what are you doing to me they're looking for Superman they're not going to get Superman they're going to get the Pillsbury Doughboy out there they're not getting Superman they're getting Fat Man I mean what are you doing I kid you not they went out now they're all here he comes Superman's about to come And they said, we're so sorry, you know, Christopher Reeves couldn't come today. And we have John Maxwell. Well,

18:49300 people get up and walk out. As I'm coming out on stage, they're already leaving. I mean, they're already leaving. And then when they see me, another 200 people get up. It's like horrible. terrible and i looked at him and of course all you could do is you just start laughing and say you know i'm i'm so sorry you know what i'm saying i'm you know now the good news is once i started speaking no one else left but it's yeah i mean hello i mean who's gonna who's gonna replace superman did you say something when you came out to grab their attention or to get them or to connect with them? Did you say something that saved them?

19:29I said, guess what? I'm not Superman. I'm in trouble and you're going to have to help me. But if you'll stay with me, I'm going to, I'm going to help you. And, and you know what I did, I got them on my side. Really what I did is what you do in cases like, it's like the international audience. When I speak internationally, I ask them questions all the time. I'll say, now I want to tell you a story, but does this happen in your culture? And sometimes they'll say yes. And I'll say, okay, let me tell you. What happens is if you do that, you engage them and very quickly, they become an ally and they get on your side.

20:05And so they helped. So when they realized that I wasn't Superman, they said, well, Fat Man needs my help. I'm going to hang in with him. And they did. And so it came out okay. But obviously I was set up. I mean, I was set up for, there's no, there's no good anything about, I mean, when I saw that on back, never in my life have I been more tempted to turn around. Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine. Hey, not only is Superman sick, Fat Man just got sick too. You know what I'm saying? I'm actually crying. I'm actually crying thinking about it. And by the way, you guys, I know that cause he's my dear friend, I say this, but I want you to get this book.

20:42I just really believe that more people could be great communicators than actually think they can be. Go to 16lawsofcommunication.com and get John's book. The thing that John, I think, is maybe the best I've ever seen at, and it's one of the laws. It's law number 12 in the book. You have to read the book to get all the laws, everybody. We're going to go through a few of them today. One of the laws in the book, and by the way, you all are good at this. You just need to work on the skill because there's certain areas of your life you're already great at it. And that is that I think great speakers, in fact, my favorite people to be around at a dinner or a lunch are storytellers.

21:17People who can tell a story. And law number 12 is the law of storytelling, which you just did so well right there. But elaborate on that a little bit. Because I watch a lot of speakers throw a bunch of facts in PowerPoint and slide this and slide that. And I'm like, facts tell, but stories sell, right? Like I want to hear a story. I'm going to remember the story. So talk about that a little bit. Well, you know, I think when you're with us, the last time you were talking a lot about the story of your father. You know, what it does is it humanizes the speech. When you tell a story, immediately you're telling their story.

21:58Because when I tell a story, we all have commonness in our life. And all of us have commonness and experiences. is that's why when you're in a group and somebody tells a story, what's it do? It triggers somebody else's. Oh, and I remember doing, and all of a sudden you're going around the table and you're just bouncing off each. But what happens is stories stimulate our own personal journey and our own personal stories. And it becomes something that everybody can identify with. You know, I grew up as a theolog, so I was trained in theology. And basically one of the things they taught me, which was terrible, is they said, don't tell personal stories because it'll make people think that you're kind of like a narcissist or an egomaniac.

22:45And so for about my first year, I didn't tell any personal stories. I just told stories and they were good. But one day I just told a personal story and everything came alive. And what I found out was that when I tell my story, it lives in me. And when I'm teaching a lesson or I'm speaking, I can either transfer information from me to you, which is not effective at all, or if it goes through me to you, there's a difference between coming from me to you and through me to you. And so whenever I'm doing my writing of a lesson, I always make sure that I have some personal illustrations in it. And the other thing is I ask myself when I'm doing that, do I live this?

23:36Is this something I'm living? Because when I was young, in my 20s, Ed, I made an important decision that I was only going to teach what I lived and what I believed. And I just wasn't going to teach. And so there are a lot of things I don't teach at all. And some of them are probably very good. But I just don't live them or I maybe don't believe them. And what I found is personal conviction, moral authority comes from the life that you've lived. And so we teach you what we know, but we reproduce who we are. Oh, my gosh. And stories are who we are. And they're so transferable. Do people remember numbers?

24:20Do people remember stats? I don't even use, like, I don't know, charts and things like that. honestly. And the reason I don't use them is because I never understood them myself. And so it's kind of like, if I can't figure them out, if you can't figure them out, you sure can't teach them. That's for sure. And so, but stories live that they have, they have breath to them and, and they draw the people in immediately. And when, you know, when you, again, when you were at our conference, you were so superb, you were so superb. And you started talking about your relationship with your dad. Everybody had a relationship with a dad.

24:54Yeah. By the way, so did you. I want to acknowledge something about you. I want to say one thing, everybody. I was just sitting here listening to you. I was thinking, man, this is pretty cool for people to listen to two of the more sought after speakers in the world talk about this topic. And then the best, John, has written this book about it. But that day, so by the way, what I try to do is try a me story with a you meaning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Meaning I'm telling a story about me, but you're getting your own meaning from it. That's an important key, everybody, when you tell stories, and John's the master at this.

25:23But that day, the other thing it does is it gives you more dimension. So what they see when you walk out on stage is the current version of you. And when you begin to tell stories about different times in your life, it gives you dimension, and it actually alters their perspective and time of you. So even that day, and I know you well, after I spoke, it doesn't matter what the story was, everybody, but John then got up, and actually, I don't know if you remember this, John, You talked about your dad and lessons he had taught you and what a prayerful good man he was and lessons. And what it did, it's interesting because even now when I see you, it's different.

25:55I just want to tell you the impact a story can have. I pictured you as a little boy. And so I've always admired you as a mentor, but you're older than me. You were always like when I started in this space, the first book I read was your leadership book, right? The Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. And so I've always pictured you at this version of your life. And when you started to tell this story about your dad, it switched. And now I could see you as a little boy. And then I saw you in your 30s because the story was from those times. And it gave a depth and a connection that went far deeper. Not just the story, but a different time in our lives gives you a dimension when you speak.