Positive Thinking: How Changing Your Mindset Can Change Your Life Feat. Garrain Jones

28:19Or like a month?

28:24With OfferWatch.

28:28So, want to drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Milet Show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. you'll never miss an episode that way. Tim Grover, welcome back to the show, brother. Thank you so much. So let's take Kobe and Jordan, the two physically phenomenally gifted dudes, mixed with all the things that you have in the book about winning. Like if you want to think like Kobe Bryant and what Tim Grover did, read the book. If you want to think like MJ and the things that you learned from MJ and then that you took to another level, read the book, right?

29:08Did you ever work with a guy, don't say who, I know you wouldn't, but did you ever work with someone as physically gifted as either one of the two of them that just lacked these things and so as a result we don't know who they are? Numerous. Really? As physically gifted? Even more. Wow. Even more. They were by far not my most physically gifted athletes. I work with athletes that were jumped higher than MJ, who ran faster, who had better footwork than Kobe, but they - Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were not the two most physically gifted athletes you've worked with. No. whoa okay and then so when you would work with these guys and you'd be pushing them in training there was a different resistance or fatigue or how was it different you know what and how many times have you had people come up to you and says i'll do anything to get where you're at right all the time or i'll do anything to work for you until you until you tell them what your definition of anything is your definition of anything is different than my definition of anything i'll have an athlete it's very simple when I first start with them when I was training numerous said what time's the first workout I'd say 3 30 I'm like okay it's 3 30 a.m.

30:18a.m. I wouldn't tell them a.m. or p.m. tell them 3 30 okay so we're myself my staff we're sitting at waiting because you know winning doesn't sleep and it doesn't understand why you why you do that's awesome so So then we come back and they roll in the gym at 3, 3.30. Like, what are you doing here? They're like, you said 3.30. No, no. I said, you got the wrong time. And I said, when does a new day start? And they look at me and goes, no. I said, no, the new day starts at 12 midnight. That's right. That's a new day. All right. What are you waiting for? and even if you tell them hey MJ did this Kobe did this if they don't have it they don't have it they don't have it you think it's a lack of obsession like there you said you've referenced a couple times like sleep at night your bed doesn't sleep and all that one of the things that I'll be honest there's a lot in the book that hit me and you guys go get the book winning Tim Grover real simple get it anywhere books are sold but there's this part of the book man it like it almost made me cry audibly reading it but I did get water in my eyes and i'm gonna get water even explaining it to you where you're talking about being asleep and that you get these visitors at night and i know those visitors very very well i have them too it's attached to my obsessions and i don't think i don't think the average person who wants to really win understands the extent and degree of obsession required they don't so can you elaborate on that visitors that you get at night everybody thinks obsession is a bad word it's not I love to use the people I, you're a great example.

32:09Ed, why? Why keep going? Look at the house. Not only this house, the other house, and the other house, and the plane. And if people pay very close attention to what was just said, probably about 20 minutes ago, what did you say? I don't consider my, I don't know if I consider myself a winner. That's obsession. That's obsession. And I love to use your plane story as an example. You went from a very nice size plane to even a bigger plane, but it's still not your 747. That's right. That's true. It's not your 747. Good. All right. That's an obsession. That's a healthy obsession. That's what gets you out of bed.

32:58that's what allows you to when you get out of bed when all the skeletons are lined up next to you and telling you you can't do this you're not able to do this you're not able to do this you get up every single morning and you shake their hands and give them a hug and say yep what you got for me tonight exactly i got you because you're a part you're a part of me you're a part of me and people put some it's funny winners bring all of them wherever they go and most individuals the best part of them the thing that allows them to win the thing that allows them to be obsessive the thing that allows them not to care what other people think the things that allow them to deal with hatred the things that keep them going when nothing else will they keep in their closets the best part of them they keep in there because they're worried what are people going to think about me if i let those things out don't i i always say this all right no everyone says i'm afraid to become that person yeah you should be more afraid not to become that person be afraid not to become that person you you're a big thing about this you know meet uh i want to where at the end of the journey yeah you know i want to meet my better half and say hey did what did you leave behind or i was like hey this is the person shake hands with them shake hands with them if you can't become that person you're never going to be able to shake that person's hand yeah I'd much rather I live in more fear of I live in way more fear of not becoming that person than I am about not trying to be him big time but I do have I want to stay on this for a minute I get these visitors at night too that you get so I I don't want people to think that winning is all like rosy and glory and beautiful nothing it's it's really not and I'd not even you You have to know this.

35:11Here's the real. I've never said this on the show. You have to really know these truths so that you can actually decide you still want to win. Yes. Right? Because what does come with becoming this way now at 50 and you're 56? 56. 56. You look great. I've had 50 years of having these visitors in my life. And they're not going away at it. That's what everybody wants to do. People just want to sweep them under the rug. They want to keep them in the closet. They don't want to talk about them. that's what makes you successful. That's what makes you special. That's what makes you different. And what did we say?

35:49Different scares people. Winners and winning scares people. And they don't want to win because of that. They're trying to win. They're trying to balance. They're trying to fit in. What do winners do? Very few of them have balance in their life. Maybe after they become successful, they try to balance a little bit more. All right. There is no balance early. They don't care what other people think. They're extremely obsessive. They know it. And they don't mind telling you that they're chasing the next win. Because that's what fuels them. But when people come to you and say, you've had enough. You know, why?

36:37Slow down, slow down. Unwind. I don't know about you. I do know about you. I should say that. We are at our most uncomfortable when people tell us to unwind. We like to be wound up. We like that. That's like a part of that. We have our we have our unique ways of unwinding. We don't need anybody to tell us to unwind. my favorite way of unwinding is having some tequila with a buddy of mine who's another winner and talking about doing more winning right i was on andy's show and i said winning is more fun than fun is fun i remember that and i just really believe that like what is actually what i like like i like the pursuit of winning i like the i like i like that i sincerely don't feel that way about myself because i'm scared if i did like i'm scared of these visitors that i have are my fears, my worries, my hopes, my thoughts, my skeletons.

37:35Yeah. You know, they take all those forms. They take all those forms and you don't know what form they're going to take that night. And you know what? They're going to sit at you with the table. They're all, they're not going to, I put this in a book. When you travel, those skeletons are traveling with you on the plane. They're my constant companion all the time. And if you notice, everyone looks at you and you fly on that plane alone, I've said, Ed's never been on that plane alone. It's true. It's true. He's never been on that plane alone. They're with me all the time. All the time. And you know what?

38:08When they look at his tequila bottles on the thing and they're finished, that's because they're drinking the best stuff also. I wonder who's drinking all that stuff, man. Stuff gets expensive. I just love this because this is the realest conversation I've ever had about winning and it's the realest book about it. Like, like it's, I don't, this isn't one of these Pollyanna things like, it's not all rosy. No, there's a lot of it that sucks. And like, unless you want to sign up. And by the way, I don't know if you feel it. I'm actually cool if you don't. Like if you actually said, Hey, I don't want all that stuff.

38:40I don't want to, I mean, I don't relate to you. I'm not going to hang out with you. You're not my kind of people, but I'd actually admire somebody who says, I won't do these things that are in this book. And I know I'm not going to win rather than say, I want to win and do none of the things that are in the book. The people that can admit it, they've already won. The people that said, this ain't for me. This ain't for me. They're saying they know exactly who they are. I'm good. I'm good. If you, most people will settle for good. Most people will settle for okay. All right. Very few people will settle for great.

39:15Very few people will settle for unstoppable. Very few people will settle for winning. I break things down three different ways. So look at this. And I didn't put this in the book but i want to share i want to share this with you you have individuals that compete everybody competes you know that you know you play golf you love golf sure you you know you go out and uh your golfing partner i don't know what's his real name your real name is kelly gwynn we call him richard cabesa dick cabesa is head in spanish everyone that's wondering what that's his name because half the people don't know that's what everybody knows him he's going to be signing autographs he goes out there people like i love you in my line man can i get your he's had people take pictures with him it's awesome you know so and i'll get into it a little bit later about that but there's people that compete all right there's p everybody knows how to compete at something all right and for most people when they compete they want to get to the they want to just finish that's their way they just want to finish all right now to me if you're that level person is that finish going to lead to another win it might not be it might be in something else if you're going to run a marathon all right and you're not one of these top elite marathon right you're not going to win the marathon right you're not going to win but you have a mindset to say hey i'm going to finish this marathon now is that when you finish that marathon what else is it setting you up for but there's people that go in there they're just happy they're just happy competing they're just happy finishing they're just happy to be in the race then you have people that win once.

40:52They win once. And how many individuals do you know, and you probably don't, well, I shouldn't say this, I said you know, not associate with, there's a big difference, that keep telling you about that win over and over again, no matter how long it's been. Gosh. Factoid. I got it, man. You were quarterback in high school. I got it. You got your master's. I got it. I got it. All right. Then you have individuals that win at winning. That's really good. They win at winning. So they win over and over and over again. You think it's all it's cracked up to be? No. But we don't know any other way. Best answer of all time.

41:41Very similar. Everybody, we don't know any other way. Best answer of all time. We just, we can't accept, we can't accept it any other way. We just can't. Hmm. I wrote a best-selling book. Crap. I didn't have to do another book. You wrote a best-selling book. Right. You know, you have another, you have another book coming out. Hmm. You don't, you don't have to do any of this. Hmm. but if you didn't that would be more detrimental to you you don't know you don't know any other way yeah you just don't you think that by the way I'm loving this just so you know because I know people that might be listening say this is a little bit dark like welcome to winning like that's why you see so many people I watch Nick Saban after he wins these national championships He's gotten a little bit better out of it the last couple of years.

42:40Have you noticed this? Yeah, just a little bit, though. Just a little bit, like 1 % better. You know what? Either his wife or somebody in his family told him. Hey, at least smile for the interview after, right? We can get back to work tonight. But you watch these prolific winners. So I did love to watch MJ celebrate that win in the evening that he won, right? Or, you know, the few times I saw Kobe actually celebrate the win. But I know the next day they're back to work. I watched a Saban and like for years he'd win these national championships and you could already see the grimace on his face for the next year in the postgame interview.

43:14In the postgame, yes. Right? And like I think people look at it and they go, well, then is he, and I think to your answer, you're right. Like people say, well, is he really enjoying this? Yes. And he knows no other way. So maybe it's not all, I wonder if you ask, is it all it's cracked up to be? I think some people might say, no, but it's all I know. And it's better than the alternative of living with losing the rest of my life or not trying. Yes. Right? There's a reason it's lonely at the top. And it's not because you want to be surrounded with other individuals. That's not the part people, when they talk about it's lonely at the top.

43:55It's alone because nobody understands what's going on in here. of what you went after you've just won, what you went through, and you're already thinking about the next. You're already thinking about the next, and people can't comprehend that. And there's people whispering in your ear, and they're saying, enjoy it, enjoy it. By the time they say enjoy it, you did enjoy it. Now you're already thinking. Yeah. Do you think it's the, I'm just thinking right now, I'm asking you this, because you watched this, and you've done it in your own life. Like, you've had two careers. You had a career where you helped, which you still do, where you help other people win.

44:33And then there became this point in your life where you became, you were individually winning as a speaker, as a coach, as a writer. It's an interesting thing to watch with you. You were the behind the scenes guy. Then you weren't the behind the scenes guy. Do you think that it's like a dopamine thing? Like when they win, like they're already, they have to get another one, like it's an addiction. Do you think winning becomes an addiction? It is an addiction. and the only place where you can get that high again is the black market in your mind. It's the only place. Because you only know where that entrance is.

45:07You only know where that hit is. You only know what that drug is. And here's the crazy part about it. The next win has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to constantly keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So true. It sounds like a sickness when you're listening to this, but I actually think it's beautiful. I actually think you were born to win and you learn over a lifetime how not to as a child. Don't do this. Sit down. Be a good boy. Get in your place. Do this. Then the world starts treating you. And I think you move further and further away from your own nature.

45:45I think we were born to win. We were born to do something great with our life. I really, I know that's a saying to me. And I feel a sadness when I meet somebody who's accepted a life of not winning by the way I'm cool with it it's okay I'm not judging you but as someone who wants to pursue that expression of myself or that I just wonder what I would be like you know if I could what it would be like what I would be like if I could get to the next level I'm fascinated with like I think the people that I really like enjoy they're a curious people like I want the next experience I don't want to live in the previous experience like that guy was like hey you know I made a million dollars in 2009 and it was like in the mortgage boom or the crash or whatever I'm not really interested in living in those in those times you're not because it's always about it's always about what's next it's all is about constantly staying in the range it's a constant about changing your mindset the language of winning for people that win is completely different than the language of winning from other individuals no you sit here and you talk to people and they describe the when I talk to all my athletes I said describe winning in one word to me and everybody would think about you know they would be like it's happy it's you know it's euphoric it's all those things and it is but those constant winners their answers were it's unpolished it's uncivilized it's nasty it's hard it's dirty it's unforgiving and then Kobe comes up and says it's everything it's everything and if you think about it and very few people are genuine about this and you know the ones that are and you know the ones that aren't how do you feel when somebody's really close to you and they win it's an unbelievable feeling unbelievable feeling how do you feel when you win it's an unbelievable feeling even though it's short-lived how do you feel when your kids win it's unbelievable yeah all right that feeling is everything it is everything that feeling is everything it's amazing you just said that i'm reading the book last night and i call my wife about halfway through the book because when you read your work you know even in the first book most caught you talk about in this book the most controversial part of the first book was the dark side yes you talk about it in this book and then when you're reading this you're like this winning thing's mean this winning thing's unforgiving this winning thing doesn't give a shit if you sleep this winning thing doesn't care right like you go through you're like she this is almost and i and if if you're not careful guys you would think because this is truth it flies in the face everything you always hear but you would you would think that it's not something that you really want and the evidence of it, I said to my wife last night, I said, the evidence that you know winning is where you belong is how happy you are when you see your children doing it.

48:49If you have children, when your children win a spelling bee or get straight A's or hit a home run or win a golf tournament or do anything exceptional, the amount of joy you feel and pride when they win. I have a feeling that that's how God feels when he sees one of his children win. And I think this is something we all miss that it is a grind it is difficult but if you ever wonder whether you belong winning and that's the path you should pursue just ask yourself a question about your children if you have them or your parents or anybody that you love and care about when they win how do you feel for them i literally said this last night so i've heard you speak numerous times and what people don't know about this like when we're on the stage together at this same event i'll stay just to hear you speak vice versa as you know you know i will stay the last time i heard you speak was at an event and you were talking about a golf tournament you were with with your son with max yeah with max it's an intense story yeah it was in it we went from playing golf to winning yes that was the decision like to your point like your book and by the way i've said this early in the interview little words from people a caring statement a little bit of access to some information and i've said this many times just haven't said it to you but like i thank you because, you know, I've had people say, oh, your son gets all your stuff.

50:06And yeah, he also has talked to Grover. He's also talked to Grover. And just so you guys know, I really, truly believe that one of the reasons that my son is excelling is you. And your information, little whispers, you get a little direct message, a little text message, a little access to a call like you've done for my son. And I think that's the other thing that people don't know. Winners are generous. Extremely generous. You know why? Because they're truthful. They tell you how it is. It's not rainbows. It's not unicorns. It's not sprinkles. This is what it takes. This is what it takes. And other people, they don't want to.

50:46We talk about the stuff nobody else wants to talk about. Does that make us bad people? In many people's eyes, it does. But it also, we're the few people that are going to hold you accountable. We're going to tell you the truth. And people are going to say, you know what? Everybody else sugarcoated it. These individuals told me exactly how it is. That's what the book Winning is about. Now, I don't want people to think that it's all this thing. If you read the last chapter of the book, it kind of ties everything in and it explains why winners go through this journey. Yep. Why they go through this journey.

51:28because I have this thing. It's like everyone talks about it's the journey. It's journey. It's not the destination. Well, to me, why the hell are you taking the journey if you don't know where the hell the destination is? What are you just aimlessly going to be running around? All right. Every time when you get on your plane or you get in your car, you know exactly you're going from here to here. Now you may have to take a detour to go somewhere else to do whatever you're doing, but you're like, this is where we're going. You had a post a couple of days ago. Man, it's nice to own a jet because all of a sudden I got to go wherever, wherever your destination was.

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52:35When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. all protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. I'm excited because a really good friend of mine is here today.

53:14He's also got a new show out on Netflix right now. What's the name of that show? Called Buying Beverly Hills. Buying Beverly Hills. And so if you have ever watched that show, you recognize that beautiful voice of my friend Mauricio Yamansky. Welcome, Mo. Ed, how are you? It's so good to be here with you. You used the word, and this thinking that you just said is contrarian thinking. It's contrary to culture. It's contrary to popular opinion. To start the agency was a contrarian move. You actually have that as part of the work in the book called Be Contrarian. Does that mean don't always participate in group think like everybody does it and be constantly innovating, because you also talk about that in the book too.

53:53I think that's exactly what that means. It's think on you. It's think. Don't follow. I remember another thing that my grandfather and my father always used to say to me, they used to say, when everybody's buying, you sell. When everybody's selling, you buy. Interesting. Right? That's what a contrarian is. I do that, by the way. I just put a post out about this, Mo, the other day. I'm like, when everyone is thinking one way, I try to always think the other. When they're all going one direction. No one makes money in the pack. Nobody gains market share in the pack. Nobody gains a great life in the pack.

54:25I mean, it's like what we're dealing with right now, the First Republic Bank, right? Is it the time to buy? It's down 85%. It's a good bank. I'm not going to be careful. I'm debating the same thing myself. I kind of get what's happening, but man. That's contrarian thinking, right? You're not following everybody. By By the way, I'm not telling anybody you're going to go buy. Me neither. 100%. Not at all. I should amend that good bank thing. It's a bank. I'll just leave it at that. It's a bank. I don't know if it's a good bank or not. Right. I got to be really, really careful about that. Do you think...

54:58By the way, I'm loving our conversation. It's really cool for me to have this part of my friend that I see revealed to me in detail, like the science behind the art. Because I've always admired the things that you do and how you go about doing them, but now I understand the processes to which you do them. I want to go all the way back for a minute because it's one of my favorite stories in the book because you just said it. I think a lot of people that get into sales don't realize you are self-employed, but you have to operate like you own your own business. You have to think like an entrepreneur.

55:28A lot of people do this. They have a full-time job. They work like 12, 14 hours a day. All of a sudden, they get to be an independent contractor of a job, and they think they're on vacation. They work two, three hours a day. I'm like, no, when you do that, you actually have five jobs. You have 11 jobs. It's going to require more work, sheer momentum to get it off the ground. And you kind of caught that entrepreneurial bug, you call it in the book, young with this thing with your dad, right? This story. And I think this is illustrative of thinking like an entrepreneur. And it's one of my favorite stories in the entire book because it explains you to me and it explains a lot of your success to me.

56:00So tell us that. Another recession. My father came up to me and he said, you know, Mauricio, it's time to either work or go to school. But, you know, I'm not going to pay for you to be a dumbass anymore and, you know, like just pretend you're going to school. Right. And I literally said to my dad, I go, give me a couple of days and I'll get back to you and, you know, let you know what I want to do. And he was supportive of me going to school if I was going to go to school. Right. I wasn't just wasn't supportive of me going to school if I was, you know. Right. Going to go to the bars. Right. Right.

56:29And I got back and I said, Dad, I'm going to come work for you. And, you know, he just taught me so many things, man. He taught me the value of the penny. Right. Like which is in my book. And you guys will love that. It's a great story. It really just makes everything so real. and it just teaches, you know, it helps you teach your kids, you know, how to save. It helps you teach yourself how to save and how to, you know, understand that value because, you know, I always tell everybody there's 100 pennies in the dollar, right? The day you can figure out how to give me 102, I'm in, I'm your partner.

56:58It says that in the book. Right? So, you know, we go through that whole process and he teaches me how to fight for cents, literally. Like I would, you know, I'd come back and I'd be like, dad, I sold, you know, 100 ,000 yards for 97 cents. and he'd be like, yeah, go back and give me 99 cents. I'm like, really? Yep, yep. And yeah, you start adding that up and adding that up and it adds up to a lot of money, right? But then eventually it's like you're in sales, you're creating your own momentum, you're creating your own things, you get that entrepreneur bug, and I ended up meeting somebody that we sold fabric to that was struggling and I loved their brand.

57:32It was 90265, it was a clothing line. The guy was awesome. His name's Bron Roilands. He started the company. Really brilliant guy. He was actually a makeup artist. He used to do all the makeup artists for Justine Bateman and Woody Harrelson. And he had all these amazing people that were his people. But they didn't have credit. It was a startup, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm sitting there in front of these guys, and I'm thinking to myself, well, these are the fabrics I sell. I've got all of this shit sitting in my warehouse. So now you start thinking as an entrepreneur, and you start taking your salesman job into this next piece, which is like, how do I build a business?

58:11And so from there we built a business, and we built something else. And there was an exit out of it too, right? Yeah, there was an exit, we sold it. It was not a profitable exit for me. It was more of an exit that got me out, and I paid all my debt, and I paid all my people, and I walked away with it. But yeah, it was a great learning lesson. What is... Let's talk about your public you for a minute. What has that been like for you, To go from a guy who's, you know, a guy working every single day to now there's this unprecedented notoriety in your life, right? Like Kyle's... the most well-known housewife, I think is probably to say.

58:54I would say by far. By far, and the most well-known franchise. And then obviously that's transcended over and doesn't hurt you in building your brand either. But I wonder what impact that's made on you, your family, your life, the good and the bad of it. What comes with that? There's both. There's tremendous sacrifices that are made. Like what? And there's obviously the good, right? The sacrifices are, you know, I mean, is it nice to be able to go in and call and get a reservation? at a restaurant that most people can't get a reservation, yeah, it's great. But now you walk in and there's also a thousand cameras on you, right?

59:33And you're in the public eye and people are talking about you and making stuff up about you and all kinds of different things. I mean, to me, that was definitely a sacrifice I made. The privacy of life, just being private, private being, you know, I don't know how else to say it. It's like literally just being private. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's amazing, right? And so many people want to be publicly known and they want the notoriety and they want the celebrity status and all of those things. But, you know, people don't realize what a huge sacrifice comes with that. And it's not necessarily bad.

1:00:17It also brings money. Right. The benefits of building a brand. All those other things. The benefits, I have made it very clear. And if it wasn't for the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, if it wasn't for television, I think we would have still grown. I think we'd still have an amazing business, right? Because before I ever got on television, I was already the number one agent in California. But there was no way I would have built the business I had as fast as I have without television. And you talk about that. So building a network and building a brand. Maybe you're not going to be on the Real Housewives or whatever.

1:00:49but I think business has become not just about who you know anymore, but about who knows you. And that's why social media does matter and why building a brand for any entrepreneur out there, I believe there's value to do you, do you agree with that? A hundred percent. And you nailed it. You don't need television to build the brand. Right. I mean, like, let's be clear. It certainly helps. Right. Right. It gets it out there, but not everybody, you know, there's not, you know, 10 million shows, 100 million shows, right? right. There's only so many seats out there. as you said. But I've seen amazing brands built with other methodologies.

1:01:25Yeah, by building social media, by building referral bases. But you talk about that and having a network. Because you also say in the book, and I just think this is brilliant stuff, this is just stuff people don't do in friendships. One thing I try to do even with you or other friends of mine, just time to time, I just go, hey man, I'm thinking about you. I love you. You okay? You need anything, right? And there's a principle of this in the book for business too. I want you to stay on this point, which is to stay in touch because this is, you're not, most people in sales or in their career think that they're building for like just this year.

1:01:56They don't think that they're building a company. So you're planting seeds often right now that you won't even harvest to get a client or referral three, four, five years from now. So talk about that. A hundred percent. And it's so important. Like, you know, I have approximately 2 ,000 salespeople that work for me right now. And I get to see the way they act all the time, right? You see the guy that makes the$5 million sale to make$100 ,000, and they're off to Cabo. Yes. Boom. Yes. Dang it. Yes. Bye. Yes. Where are you going? I'm off to Cabo. I'm like, dude, you finally made some money. Right.

1:02:31Keep the momentum going. Get it going on. Yes. And then it's like, I'll use me as a real concrete situation. I sell the Playboy Mansion, $100 million deal, multi-million dollar commission. I'm in the next day in the office and like five people come up to me five of my salesmen come up to me they're like congratulations but what are you doing here and I'm just thinking to myself well where else would I be you know they're like well why aren't you on vacation I'm like because this deal ended what's next I can't re-bring this deal back right like it's gone it's not gonna so what am I tomorrow what am I three months from now what am I seven months from now right and as soon as that ends it ends Yes.

1:03:16Right? Yes. And that's what people don't understand. So when you're planting those seeds, when you're staying in touch, you're staying in touch for the future. Yes. For the next thing. Yes. Right? Why is it that people don't get this? It's unbelievable to me. It's the big separator. Now we're going into it, guys. This is a big old separator. Here's what I think happens. You actually say it in the book. That's why, like, I told you, you said, did you get my book? I said, dude, I read it this weekend. I read your entire book in two days. And I know you. So I know a lot of the stories in the book, right?

1:03:45But it's this good. So I'm like, yes, damn it, scream this. And one of the things you say is like, don't believe your press clippings. Like, don't believe the hype about you. Here's what happens to most people. They get a little bit of success and then they start believing the crap about them. Like, oh, I can do this whenever I want. Or this is, I actually, this is probably because I don't think you do it the way I do it, but I play a little scared. like I I don't you're so confident I don't think you have but like it's similar and if I play a little scared like when I get a good deal or something good's happened I've had an exit or you know this show's doing really well I'm like okay I gotta do something to keep it going or do it better I don't go yay I'm the greatest podcast host in the world it'll just grow on its own now yeah but that's what a lot of you must see your sales people all the time like they believe the hype or even recognition I was at your event I was the speaker at your event the best thing you do in your culture is how much you love on your people and have a good time and you recognize them.

1:04:40I do that really well in my companies too. It's a double-edged sword sometimes though. Because one, you're saying you're amazing, you're great. And a lot of people are like, yeah, I sure am. I'm going to celebrate. And they live off last year's production or award for the next two years. Then they wake up, they're like, wow, I can't get a deal done. I lost my mojo. Because they believe the hype. Yep. The seeds you plant today are for tomorrow, not for today. And you're so right, Ed. And one of the things that I just keep thinking about is you and I are so similar. in different ways. Yeah. Right?

1:05:10Similar and different. Yeah. But, you know, when you and I, you know, when you invited me to play the member guest at, you know, the Madison, and you and I are just these competitive son of a gun. Right? We didn't win, by the way. We didn't win. That damn ball, that last punch just hit the pin. That last punch hit the damn golf. Dang it. I'm still pissed. Anyway. But it was, you know, and golf is a game of life. We always talk about it, right? But you and I are in there and we're like, you know, when I'm hitting a bad shot, like you're making me feel like it's okay to hit the bad shot. And when you're hitting, when you're not super on, I'm making you feel like, and I'm pumping you up because I know how good you're going to hit that next shot, and you're pumping me up because you know how I can.

1:05:47And it's that whole thing, right? That's what we have to do with our people. Yes, exactly. And that is the life that we have to create. Are you good at that, like making people feel good about themselves, making them feel that you believe in them, you pour belief into them? I think I'm pretty good at that. I think that that's one of those things that we can always be better and can always continue to work on because, you know, it goes back to time and it goes back to the balance of time. Like, I could be great at it, but if I don't have time and I don't put the effort, I suck. Yeah. You know, the other thing you're good at doing is, by the way, guys, we're covering a lot of stuff on a short window here.

1:06:19I'm loving this conversation. But the other thing you do is you have surrounded yourself with people who are good at the stuff you aren't good at doing. One of the most important things to do. Yeah. So talk about that a little bit because I don't think a lot of entrepreneurs do it. They're like, I'm going to do everything. They micromanage every single little thing or they deplete their energy doing stuff they're not really that good at and don't have a proclivity for. And then they don't have the energy and juice to go do the things that really move the needle in their business. You are really good at moving the needle in your business because you don't deplete your energy most of the time doing stuff you're not good at or don't enjoy.

1:06:53I think one of the most important traits that a person can have, a business person, a person in anything, is being able to really self-analyze your strengths and weaknesses. And not trick yourself that you have strengths where you have weaknesses. Because most people, they trick themselves. I mean, I think that's one of the biggest mistakes I see in people is that they trick themselves. They think they're good. They pretend they're good at something or they think they're good at something that they kind of suck at. Yes. Okay? And being able to be self-analytical and understand your weaknesses is probably the most important thing because then you can hire your weaknesses.

1:07:39Yes. Right? And I hire to my weaknesses and I also hire what I think is amazing brains that don't necessarily think like me. I don't need another human being next to me that thinks exactly the way I think so that we could be all day long. Hey, bud, aren't we great? We're the best. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Red. Yeah. Red. Red. You know, like, right. I need somebody like, no, I want blue. Like, that's not red. You know, like, and why? Right. Now, now I need the brain. Why do you want blue? Okay. Now I might be the boss. I might end up picking red, but I want to hear every damn reason you want blue.

1:08:20Okay? And then it's up to me whether I pick it or not. Right? But I want to hear it. This is two things we have in common. If I were to say there's a trait that you and I really, really share in common, that we do well. By the way, we both have things we don't do very well. But what we do, like that golf sometimes. But actually, what we both do well is we ended up in our lives becoming self-aware enough to know the things we were good at. And we've spent most of our business lives and personal lives playing to those strengths and not, that's why we're relatively young men that have had some real success because I haven't wasted a bunch of time trying to get really good at things I'm just not good at doing.

1:08:59And the other thing that we have in common, you're really good at that, Mo. The other thing we have in common is that I don't have to be right all the time. If someone is smarter than me in a meeting or a decision, I will defer. My ego can get too big, I'm sure, but it's not too big. Doing it right is better than it being my idea in business all the time. And I think you're really, really good at that too. And by the way, not being right all the time is potentially even more important in your relationships. How do you mean? Boyfriend, wife, girlfriend. You know, you don't, you know, I see so many friends of mine and they fight with their wives, they fight with their husbands, they fight with their boyfriend, girlfriend, and they're really fighting just because they need to be right.

1:09:39Right? If you can learn that you just don't always have to be right, you know it could go a long way in your relationship. It's really true. I do that with Christiana a lot of the times. I'll say hey listen I don't need to win this. Right. This is not about me winning and you losing or me right and you wrong. Sometimes it's just like we can even agree to disagree or I'll just take your idea and we'll go with it a lot of the time because life's pretty damn short. At the end of your life you're like man I won 11 of 12 fights with my wife. Yeah. There's no the scoreboard doesn't matter in this stuff at all yet.

1:10:10But we do it, by the way, we do it even in negotiations and deals too. Yeah. I'm sure you've had that even in escrows where they're going the wrong way. You're like, no, I'm right. Yeah. Well, it doesn't matter if you're right. What matters is the deal gets closed, right? Yeah. And you got to be able to defer when you do it. Yeah. You've had a glimpse into the most successful financially, successfully, financially successful people in the world and famous people in the world. Let us in a little bit. Tell us whether or not those people are any happier than, like, say, your mom and dad when you were growing up, or people that you and I both know that don't have financial means or success.

1:10:44Do you see any correlation? Are they happier, less happy, more stress, less stress? That is a great question. And, you know, there's no straight-up answer to that. You know, everybody's different. I can tell you that successful people have an easier time. They have the means to be happy. That doesn't make them happy. Your mindset, your life, your way of being, the way you look at life, that makes you happy. But having the money and having success and having a beautiful house and ability to jump your plane, all of that stuff, it makes it probably a little easier to set your mindset up, right? You also probably have the ability, if you have money, to have coaches that can coach you in mindset.

1:11:35They have the ability to hire people to help you, right? Where if you don't have that, it doesn't make you unhappy, but you just have less means to, you have to work harder yourself. By the same token, you have less distractions. so there are a lot of people that can love to go and by the way what does that money mean to somebody with a$350 ,000 job that could be that's money they don't need to have$10 million they can live great on that have a simple life and be super happy surf every morning you and I have friends that are doing just that And they're super duper happy, right? So to me, suffering is hard, right?

1:12:33Having a job, you could be happy at any stage, and you could be unhappy at any stage. I have seen some really miserable billionaires, really miserable billionaires, that have absolutely everything and have absolutely nothing going on in their life, okay? And I have seen some valet parkers that are thrilled to be alive. You're right. Yeah. It's interesting that I just, today when we're recording this, I just had this show come out with this study that was done at Harvard. It's an 85 year long study, dude. And they studied 2 ,000 young men. A thousand of them were Harvard sophomores from probably pretty privileged backgrounds.

1:13:16Wealth, abundance, most of them. And then another thousand of boys from like broken, underprivileged families in Boston. Poverty. They studied them their entire life. Like everything about them. Not just like surveys, like in-home meetings, brain scans, MRIs, talk with their kids. And there is a correlation to exactly what you just said, which is that there's no correlation between massive wealth and happiness. But there is a correlation if you can't have your needs met. If you can't meet your needs and pay your bills and eat decently and have a nice place to live and take care of your family in need and emergencies, that suffering does cause a lack of happiness.

1:13:52But the massive abundance doesn't necessarily do it. So what you've seen in your laboratory of your life is really true. How about this? Any through lines on financially successful people? Because I've met, it's really hard for me. I'll meet somebody that's like, man, what does that guy have in common with that lady who's also wealthy? And I've had a hard time taking away, what do they have in common? I think what I've seen is there's a level of confidence in their chosen craft that might separate them. But has there been a difference that you've observed in financially abundant people, a through line with them in personality traits or behaviors they have that help them generate that wealth as opposed to those that don't?

1:14:35100%. And let's throw away the lucky sperm club. Right? Let's throw away the - Inheritance. The inheritance money. Yes. Right? And let's just talk about the wealthy people that have self-made. Okay. Right? To me, there's a couple of characteristic traits that are there that make them, that are core traits. Competitive. Yes! Needing to win. Right? That, to me, is a super... a great trait that is a common trait amongst people.

1:15:07There's one trait that I've seen a lot of wealthy, successful people that I happen to think is a bad trait. Greed.

1:15:17Let's just start with those two. There's a lot of greedy, wealthy people out there, and they're greedy because they need a lot of money, and they just want money, and they want money, and they want money, and they keep bringing it in, but their decisions that they make in life are made from greed, and therefore, you know, people that work for greedy people are generally not as happy as people that work for competitive people. Really true. Man, very true. Right? Yeah. It could be a huge company. They could be kicking some ass. They could be making all the money in the world, but all their employees have a terrible culture.

1:15:51They have a terrible, you know, they f***ing hate it, right? Like, they're making money, but they're not happy people. You're right. Or you can work at a company where the culture is amazing and the head guys... So to me, those are two traits. And the other trait that seems to be a common trait, and you said it, and you said it and I have it, is fear. You do have it too. I definitely have it. I forgot. I meant to go back to that. Okay. That fear is a very common trait. The fear of having a house over your head. You know, the fear of being able to provide for your family and your kids, the fear of putting food on the table the next day, the fear, you know, like all of that.

1:16:33Right. And particularly if you've had it and lost it. Yes. Right. You've had the bankruptcy. You've had the whole thing and then you rebuild again. And then it's like and you and when you're an entrepreneur, you put everything at risk because that's what an entrepreneur does. Right. And so there's ups and there's downs and there's that. But that's the commonality that just continues to to bring you back. Right. And then hopefully keeping it. Okay, that surprises me about you because I'm a very fear-driven person. I've leveraged fear all of my life. I mean, I think the way I got wealthy was I didn't even know that I wanted to be wealthy.

1:17:04I think I was afraid of being poor. Yeah. And then even at this stage, I still leverage fear on myself pretty regularly. But I think you can almost see that on me. I'm a pretty intense wound up dude a lot of the time. Whereas you, it seems like it's bubble gums and rainbows most of the time when I'm around you because you're so positive. Even this story you tell in the book where you come home and Kyle says, how was your day? And you're like, it was the greatest day of my life. And so there's this mindset of yours. So how do you nuance that duality of staying super positive? Because this is really profound stuff that you're saying right here that only really, Mo, like I think the thing I admire about you is there's a level of genius with so much humility that you're unaware of your genius.

1:17:49Like, I actually am not totally sure you know every reason why you've been successful because you have so much humility for a dude with such genius. So how do you know how you nuance like living in some fear, leveraging it, but at the same time, you're a really positive, optimistic person? A hundred percent. I'm extremely optimistic, super positive guy. But I can also tell you, I had kids very young. When I married Kyle and I met Kyle, I already had a five-year-old daughter. And I was 25 years old. I had Alexia at 26. I had Farrah. So I had three kids before I was 30. okay and i can tell you that i i i definitely have kind of that um old world lifestyle where you know i'm i'm a man and i need to provide for my family and i need to you know i am the provider even though i wanted to make sure you know kyle that made every decision in her life right i never wanted to hold her back if she made money if she did stuff like that was just extra right like a That was great.

1:19:01But I never wanted to have that be her pressure. I needed to be the provider. And so because I was so young with kids, I definitely – and again, I was borrowing money from my grandfather, from Kyle's mom, from my father in order to keep a roof over my head, right? And in order to keep a roof over my kids' heads and to give them a perceived good life so that I can make them feel confident and all of that stuff. And so because of that, I developed a fear of losing, which also, despite all the risks I've taken, despite all the things I've done, I can tell you that I've been so conservative on so many investments that I probably have left a lot of money on the table.

1:19:45Me too. Okay? Me too. Because I haven't been willing to take that risk. So I have that fear. Me too. I'm just a positive son of a gun. Me too. No, by the way, me too. By the way, I think sometimes guys like us are the ones that remain wealthy, though, when they get there. And I have that risk aversion, too. It's so interesting how similar we are on this stuff. Now, you said a good life. We'll know that much more time. One of my favorite conversations ever is today. Because I get to see this side of you that I know, but it's being revealed. And then the rest of the world figures out, oh, that's how this dude did this.

1:20:16That's how I could do it. And success leaves clues. And Mo wrote a lot of the clues in this book of how to become successful. This gentleman to my left, just to give you a background. This guy parlayed a 990 SAT score into a multi-billion dollar company that he built. And we're going to get into your head about how you did that. But I'm overwhelmingly impressed with Impact Theory, which is an organization that he and his wife Lisa started the last few years that is really making a difference in the world, just like his company Quest Nutrition did. And so, Tom Bilyeu, thank you for being here today, brother.

1:20:49Thank you for having me, man. I'm so excited to be here. We flipped the script before. We flipped. I've been on his program and now finally I get you here. Were you like this young? So I know you didn't have the best SAT scores in the world, but I've been around you enough now. I consider you a freak, which is a compliment coming from a guy like me. No, no, no. I take it as much. I think you know what I mean. You're uniquely driven and wired to pursue greatness and to make an impact, no pun intended, in the world at a level that most people have not yet realized they're capable of, even though they are.

1:21:23And so did you know this young? If we went back and looked at this kid who grows up in Washington state, was there already these obvious insights and clues that you were going to turn into this guy? What were you like as a young guy? No, there definitely were not clues. So when I was a kid, um, my, I didn't show any signs of promise to be really fair. And my own mother, when I left for college, like she, I almost chickened out and I was like, I don't want to go. I want to just stay home. And she was like, no, no, no, you need to go. you need to go pushes me out of the nest and then literally every day since she's tried to claw me back so one day like i don't know three or four years ago i said to her mom like you were the one that kicked me out like i wouldn't have left if you hadn't pushed me so why did you push me and she said with no malice whatsoever i just always assumed you were going to fail oh my gosh and now that was she had never been like always my biggest cheerleader always rooting for me, telling me I could do it.

1:22:19But quietly, just inside, she was like, you didn't show any drive. So the one thing I will say is I was grandly ambitious. I always said, I'm going to be rich. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. Always, always, since the time I was a little kid, but I didn't have the drive to see it through. So I really, really was an empty dreamer when I was a kid. And it was learning to hate that in myself, if I'm completely honest, and to not allow myself to be an empty dreamer, to force myself to get the skills to actually execute against it, to not be in any way, shape, or form pacified by saying I'm going to do something, which is actually super dangerous.

1:22:53Most people just thinking about the fantasy of what they're going to do gives them some partial sense of, oh, I've done it. Whereas I stopped letting that be okay for me, which largely came down to embarrassment I felt around my wife working when I had no job. And that was the time, she was my fiance at the time, but that was when I really started to go, okay, you've made a lot of promises to this woman and you're not on a path to keep any of them. Wow. Okay. Our stories are unbelievable. I did not know that. And our stories are unbelievably paralleled. I was in the same situation, by the way, where I was sort of an entrepreneurial unemployed guy while she was paying our rent.

1:23:30Right. So I relate to that too. How does, I'm just curious. I want to make sure I just, I think you're one of the great American business stories. And not only because of the wealth that you've accumulated, but because of this word's overused, but it's so true with you because of the impact you're making in the world because of your success. That's what I admire. As you know, that's what I'm trying to do with the Max Up program too, and just with my life. So what I don't get is this connection. So just help me understand it because you know that I know your story. I'm fascinated by it. How do you get from a 990 SAT into USC?

1:24:04How I got into USC itself, this makes me a little sad. This is one part of the story I wish were a little different. I cheated all through high school. So the one thing that, yeah. So I graduated in the top 10 of my class. You were a good cheater. I was a good cheater. And this is one thing I will say. People talk about network and they talk about charisma. It's just real. And so I was nice. And that got me a long way. I remember in seventh grade. So one of the guys I would later cheat off of in high school becomes my absolute best friend in the universe. but he's on the spectrum, right? The autism spectrum.

1:24:41And in seventh grade, he wouldn't talk to anybody. And so I turned around one day and I was very outgoing at that time in my life, which I consider myself now just a dyed in the wool introvert. But at that time, the role in the family that I played was the jokester. So I was used to getting laughs and getting my self-esteem from my ability to make people laugh. So I turned around to him in seventh the grade. I point at him and I'm like, my mission in this class is to get you to talk. And so inside he was thinking, oh my God, somebody actually cares. And so then it became like, we just started attracting to each other.

1:25:15And he is still to this day, probably the smartest person I've ever met. And so it just became this sort of unlikely pairing, but to give you an idea of like how weird this kid was. And we're still close to this day. So he talks of himself like this. my mom said, if he doesn't start acknowledging me when I say hello to him, he's not allowed to come over anymore. She would literally say straight up to his face, hi. And he would say nothing. It was super weird. And so I was like, dude, you just got to say hi back. And so he credits me with teaching him like social skills. And I credit him with helping me graduate high school basically.

1:25:48So, but I always believe graduating high school. Literally. And I always believed that I could do the work, but that other things were more important to me. So I told myself a total bullshit story, which was that, Hey, I could be working and earning these grades, but I'd rather like learn how to be, how to talk to girls and how to like socially engage it. It's total BS. I'm well aware of that now. Uh, but at the time it really felt totally justified. And I was like, they're not teaching us things that are going to help anyway. Nobody can answer why algebra is going to be useful to me. And so I just felt like that was fine.

1:26:22But when I went to college day one, I said, okay, I'm going to be taking on a massive amount of debt. I'm learning the thing that I love. This is what I want to do with my career. So I better actually know how to do it. So the phrase that I repeated in my head over and over and over, it was ARF sink or swim. I will not cheat. Not even one. It doesn't matter. Either one of those is acceptable. The only thing I care about is that I do every bit of work myself. And so, and I stuck to that. So my grades in college are reflect, and I did better in college than I did in high school. And you didn't, is this true that you were going to, you want to be a filmmaker?

1:26:55Yes. Right. Very much. But you didn't know that there was a difference between USC film school and USC. Dude, welcome to growing up in Tacoma. So first of all, like nobody really knew how this all worked. So I went to USC because my dad had a friend who made almost an offhanded comment. My dad was like, oh, my son wants to go be a filmmaker and the guy was like oh USC is the best film school in the world okay and so my dad comes home and goes I get I hear USC is the best film school so I was like well I guess I'm going to USC then literally I didn't even think beyond that it is the only film school that I applied to I applied to one state school and then to USC and that was it oh my god and I got into USC and I just thought the way college worked was you tell them what your major is right people talk you declare your major right so I thought cool I'll go declare my major and then in the prep so I've already committed.

1:27:42I've already said I'm going to USC. I've turned down the other offer that I had at the state school. It's done. I'm going to USC, taking the financial aid package, all of it. Then they come to your town and they, they orient you to like what it's going to be like. And they show you pictures and all this stuff. And I'm so excited. And then I don't know if I asked a question or if it just came up and they said something about how to get into the film school. It's a separate application process. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What do you mean? Literally my heart dropped through the floor.

1:28:08And I was like, Oh God. And so then I was like, what are the requirements? And they said, well, we'd like to see a 1300 on your SAT. And I was like, what do I do now? And that, that was the beginning of like real panic. So what did you do? So I go to USC and I'm like, somehow I'm going to figure this out. And you have mandatory counseling. And I go to the counseling and they look at what I've signed up for. And I've signed up for film classes. Like I'd already been accepted to the major. And they said, Tom, listen, right now, you're going to end up spending a fifth year at this school because statistically you are more likely to get into Harvard law than you are into USC film school.

1:28:39Do not do this. We see people do this every year. Get out of these classes, take normal general education requirements. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm going to get in. I'm going to get in. And it's the one time in my life where someone looked me point blank in the face. And they said, you are going to fail. Like, it's not a question of if you are going to fail, you are going to spend a lot of money. And they were doing it from the position of like, look, I don't want you to waste the money. But they were so aggressive about it. And there was something in them telling me that I couldn't do it.

1:29:06That was like, I'm definitely doing this. and so I found there was a guy that was on the admissions committee who offered like you could go join him for lunch and so I went he made the offer to like a class of 350 people and I was the only one who showed up and I was like how is this possible so I say to him look I got a 990 on my SATs what do I do I really want to get into film school and he said Tom SAT stands for scholastic aptitude test it's supposed to tell me how well you'll do on college you've already missed the freshman class. You're not going to get accepted then. So you can only get accepted as an incoming junior.

1:29:41But as an incoming junior, I don't care about your SATs because I have two years of college to look at. So we said, if you don't want me to worry about your SATs, just get good grades. So I said, cool. For the next two years, all I'm going to do is get good grades. I didn't date. I didn't party. I didn't drink. I literally didn't leave my dorm room. I worked. I put my head down for two years and I just worked. And I got, if it wasn't a 4.0, it was like a 3.95 or something. So it's never that clean. Like I want my story to be, Hey, I learned that if I just put my head down and work my ass off, I can get whatever I want.

1:30:11That is unfortunately not what I learned because I believed at the time you're either talented or you're not. So I wasn't in film school to become a filmmaker. I was in film school to learn the technical side. How do you turn on a camera? Where do you put a light? Things like that. But I thought you either have the ability to tell a story or you don't. So I believed myself to be a natural filmmaker. I just believed I had talent. And so I go to film school and everything is proving. So first I gamble, right? And I take all the film prerequisites, even though they tell me not to, I get into film school.

1:30:40So that feeds my ego. Then second, my, so you have two classes that are like testing you to see where you're at as a filmmaker. And I smash it first class, smash it. And your second class, you have to team up. And basically everybody wants to direct and anybody that wants to be a cinematographer, that's good, all the directors are fighting for them. And so not only did I get the cinematographer everybody wanted, but I got to direct. And then we killed our film. It was amazing. So now I'm like, I'm the shit. Like literally every egotistical belief that I had about myself being naturally talented is just, it's just happening for me.

1:31:15It's effortless. I'm not even putting that much energy into, I mean, other than the physical production, which is exhausting, but I'm not like trying to be more artistic. I'm trying to learn how to turn on cameras and stuff like that, but I'm just a naturally talented filmmaker. So everything in college is leading towards only four people in your class get to direct a senior thesis film. So all the people, everybody else cruise, but four people get to direct. And I was chosen as one of the four. So literally the narrative in my head is I am naturally talented. You either have it or you don't. And I have it.

1:31:46And I'm very grateful that I have it. And then I make my senior thesis film and it is the most catastrophic, horrific, crash and burn, embarrassing thing I've ever gone through. The class is making fun of me. They're cutting up reels of my film to make a joke out of it. I mean, it was abysmal. Oh my gosh. And in that moment, I realized the cold hard truth. And this is, when I tell this story, people think, oh, now he's just being hard on himself or being overconfident. I'm telling you right now, I didn't have talent. And so in that moment, I realized I don't know how to tell a story. So whatever natural talent looks like, I didn't have it.

1:32:18It was so bad I stole the master from the school? No way. Yes, because I never wanted it to be seen again. So like that, like this is a really, so that leads into the darkest period of my life. Okay. So I graduate and you would think, Hey, but you work so hard to get in film school. Why isn't that the ringing narrative? And it just wasn't the ringing narrative was you thought you were talented. You're a fool. You don't know anything. And I couldn't afford to furnish my apartment. So I was literally laying on the floor of my apartment. I had an air mattress, but I was laying on the floor of my And a degree from SC.

1:32:49With a degree from SC, taking every remedial job that I can get, because now my ego is so crushed. Smashed. I need to be the smartest person in the room. It's like the only thing I have left. Well, at least I'm naturally smart. So I just put myself in dumber and dumber rooms, which means I'm making less and less money. I'm selling video games retail at one point. I mean, it was really bad. You're putting yourself in dumber and dumber rooms so that you were the smartest person in that room. Got it. I wouldn't interview for a job unless I knew this person at some point in the interview will say, why are you interviewing for this job?

1:33:19You're better than this. It's interesting to me the takeaways you have from experiences because in life it's not the experiences that happen to us, it's the meaning we take from them. And it's interesting to me that even you getting into film school, even your takeaways are deeply unique and very self-aware. This is the Ed Mylon Show.