Sage Robbins | How Surrender Creates Freedom

0:00All right, welcome to the show, everybody. So I've had her husband on like five times and I'm sick of him. I'm just going to be honest with you. I'm just kidding. He's one of my favorite people in the world. But for a long time, I've wanted to have a conversation with this woman, someone. I was in Boston last night. I was telling people how excited I was about this conversation. They said, oh, the the woman behind the man. I said, no, this is the woman with the man standing right next to him. And of the few events I've been to of Tony Robbins, I love Tony. And he's been a mentor about everybody that's been on this show.

0:29but when I leave I feel myself remembering and being most impacted by the things Sage has said and I think I know why as I prepped for this interview as I learned more about her so she in her own right is a world-renowned speaker she's a mentor huge philanthropist but when I think of Sage Robbins I think about her heart I think about her grace I think about her wisdom and you'll hear it immediately when you hear her voice there's just a piece about her that she transfers to other people. That's just magic. And so today is going to be an incredible conversation with Sage Robbins. Sage, finally, welcome to the show.

1:06Well, Ed, it's such a gift to be with you as well, and as well your listeners. And thank you for your gracious introduction. It's true. Can you hear it, everybody? It's already there. You can see it. So he's here to promote, which Tony's done many times. This year, they're having a Time to Rise Summit, January 29 through 31. You all need to go get registered for that. We're going to put the link to it in the show notes. Every year, Tony and Sage and a few others do a free event that I still can't believe is free for multiple days that changes people's lives. It's changed literally millions of people's lives.

1:39And so please make sure you register for that. I think you would second that, right, Sage? Yes, it's absolutely it. And what's amazing is Tony created the summit in 2020, actually, and we were collectively all in the middle of the uncertainty and chaos of the pandemic. And this is really when this, you know, time to rise was was birthed. And what's so extraordinary is what started with Tony's intention to serve in mission has really become a global movement. and over the past five years or past five years, we've had the privilege of, you know, connecting and having over 5 million people join the Rise Up Summit.

2:18So yeah, it's amazing. Did you hear that? You guys, 5 million people. Yes. Tony and Sage Robbins can gather that many people. So it's going to be awesome. Join them there. You guys, I can't endorse it enough. You'll love it. Thank you. Okay, Sage, here's the thing. I didn't know this about you. So everybody lean in here. This is going to be awesome. So I grew up with a father in recovery. well the first 15 years of my life my dad was an alcoholic and a drug addict and then he got sober and then I started to read about you and so I'd like to just start there from my own personal reasons so who was it in your family that was in recovery and were they recovered the entire time or were they addicted at some point and then got sober during your your lifetime yes thank you Ed My father, he is over, gosh, I think he's 54 years sober.

3:05Wow. I've probably been to more AA meetings in my life than I have church. Probably not, but close to, let's just say. I literally was raised in AA meetings. What's interesting is it wasn't just my father. My grandfathers were both in AA. My one sister was addicted to heroin for a big portion of her life. I had another sibling that was addicted to crack cocaine. And so addiction and AA and the 12-SIP program has been so instrumental in just who I am and shaped so much of who I am. And it's funny, you know, growing up and listening to the serenity prayer, you know, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

3:52I heard that prayer over and over and over again. And yet at this stage of my life, I recognize and understand and experience what it means. And I missed, you know, I always thought that AA and the 12-step program was for those people, for those people who are addicted. And I suppose if we're human, we all have blind spots and areas of patterns of addiction. And I had no clue of how much the 12 steps of AA shaped who I am, impacted who I am. the notion of sponsorship and servitude. And, you know, my father, also my parents, you know, in our home, they often, you know, like the people that you wouldn't necessarily believe that would be coming over for Christmas dinner.

4:39They were always at our home, you know, the whoever just got out of jail. And my father is just such a decent human, both my mother and my father, and really shaped who I am and how I relate to people from all walks of life. I can't believe you're saying this because that's funny. While we're recording this, you guys, it's a few days before Christmas. And I was just saying to my daughter this morning, we had some characters over my home during the holidays. Yes. Wonderful people, but then had just gotten out of jail. Yes. And had many, many years of using drugs. Same exact thing. Yes. So I grew up around Amy.

5:17My dad ended up passing away 35 years sober when he died. Wow. And, uh, but the, the transformation of having a sponsor and someone that cared about you and taking these steps has been a, I think that's why I do what I do here. It's probably because my dad got sober and what I've learned from AA. So I'm so grateful. It's amazing. It is. I did. And I didn't know that about you either. I, I'm curious what part of it impacted you the most that I'll tell you what part for me as I've gotten older, that I appreciate more. And I'd love your wisdom on this. It's the surrendering part that was hard for me when I was young and climbing and wanting to assert influence and control over my own life.

5:57Yet that nuance of letting go and surrendering to God, you know, his care and concern and plan as well. That that's the thing as I've gotten older that I probably appreciate the most. I'm just curious about that nuance for you, how you view that because Tony and you teach these tools of how to change your life, yet at the same time, surrendering to a higher power and having, you know, that, that surrendering that control, so to speak. I'm curious what your view is on that. Yes. Well, I love that you use the word nuance, uh, because it is nuanced to surrender. Uh, it's kinder and saner when we do, That's my experience.

6:39Because a lot of times what we're surrendering is the expectation that life should be different than what is. You know, what is is reality. And from my own experience, Ed, is, you know, I have suffered the most when I believe that life should be different than whether it's a diagnosis, whether it's a mother with dementia or my own health challenge or whatever it looks like or somebody that's just passed. I think it's the overlays that life is unjust or unfair that AA really schooled me to recognize, or at least one of the pathways, if I'm honest, of what surrender, what living surrender looks like in the moment, in real time, because I think that that's where the real blessedness comes from.

7:34It's not, and I don't know about you, but I don't have this mastered. I'm ongoing and it's an evolution for me, this thing called surrender. But it's also selfish because it's freeing. It's freeing and creates spaciousness where there's resistance when I don't. So that's one of the, I'd say I'm aligned with you. I'd say that's one of the great impacts of AA. A second one, I would say, is where we began in this conversation, Ed, and I didn't realize how powerful it was, but witnessing my parents accept and bring human beings into our family's house that have done quote-unquote horrible things, I really feel is one of the gifts that AA offers and is missed in a world where cancel culture is or demonizing people and blaming people for something that somebody did or said a year ago or five years ago or 10 years ago.

8:39And with that mirror, with that mirror of acceptance, with that mirror of, it wasn't even forgiveness. It was greater than that. I think it was just acceptance of the humanness because that's where we all meet. I'm human, you're human. I screw up, I miss. Whether you're an addict or not, we all go blind. And I feel that that living, ever-evolving example of acceptance that my father and my mother reflected to us was so, has shaped who I am as a woman and as a human. Just amazing. By the way, I'm already done with the episode for me. I'm serious. is I my gosh wow I feel like I have a lot of weaknesses but one of my strengths is my um I think I have you know patience and compassion with people I don't just see them for their behaviors I and I think that's because of what you just described when when someone would be in our home and my dad would say so you know Joe's coming to dinner tonight Joe's a friend Bill W you and a friend of mine.

9:49I went, Oh, okay. And he would maybe share with me a little bit of his story. And I would just see this person differently. I would want to know them and their story and their wounds and their trauma and a little bit more empathy. And I, my gosh, I look at the world today and I, I wish the fact that you have that, or I have that didn't stand out maybe so much. I mean, I'm sure it hurts your heart just to see how we treat people that we might just even just disagree with politically even. Yes. What are your thoughts about that? Like, what advice would you give to somebody who, you know, they've got a family member they used to be very close to and now they aren't because of the way they vote?

10:33My goodness, right? Like, what would you say to somebody who just struggles with finding love and compassion for someone that they may not align with on every topic? Well, you know, number one, I just feel that when we recognize that we're all human, you know, when you recognize that we all have our gifts and yet we're all unconscious at times, there's an allowance for the humanness when we have a willingness to drop our external blame and demonization of one another. Ed, it's my experience that we start to understand one another. Because if I'm only focused on what you're doing, if I'm only focused on what you're saying, or how you're blind, or how so-and-so's, you know, whatever, an idiot, or unconscious, or whatever political party, or however we label and identify people, we miss, how am I being?

11:33How are you being? I think like that's the most powerful reflection or self-reflection. And it's interesting. I don't know if you're familiar with Byron Katie's work. She talks about... I just read a book. It's right there. Sage, it's the last book I read before this interview. Well, that's amazing. The work, right? The work. Yes, the work. Yes. Oh my gosh. She's a very dear friend and we adore her. And we have her at a number of our Platinum Partnership Programs. And she has a simple mindset that there's my business, there's your business, and there's God's business. And that has been so revolutionary of how I perceive life because I'm aware it's like, oh, that's none of my business.

12:19It's your business, whatever you're doing, what people believe, what their preferences are, whether it be political, whether it be sexual, whether it be religious, whatever floats somebody's boat. That's their life. That's our autonomy as a human being, that we're given that free will. It's a blessing to be able to choose and to connect to what feels honest and true for me, or what feels honest and true for you or your listeners. And somehow, I suppose social media, Ed, has been one of the highways to us or platforms for us being in everybody else's business. But I think, you know, we live in a world where there's a notion or an identity or a label for no contact with our families.

13:08And, you know, it, it just invites, I'd say probably the biggest piece I'm passionate about is loving like this was our last day. And, you know, my sister was just diagnosed with cancer just a couple of days ago. And my mama this year, she had, you know, she has dementia and I never imagine that this holiday would look so different for us as a family. And we never know what tomorrow is going to bring. None of us. We don't know whether, you know, our parents that, you know, because they didn't love us the way that we wanted to be loved. Well, I'm a parent. You're a parent who's loving every single moment.

13:49You know what I mean? We make people wrong. We choose to have no contact for being human, for doing what I do, for doing what you do, which means we as human, we screw up at times, we're harsh at times, we can be unconscious at times. And I, once again, I mean, this takes me back to AA, Ed, but I really feel that that is, um, it's just something to really self-reflect and to connect to. And if we separate or have no contact with our parents, or with our siblings, that hurts us. That hurts us. And even though we say that it doesn't, to close off a part of ourselves, that affects our well-being of mind.

14:36It affects how we, you know, how we have resonance with one another, never mind ourselves. Wow. Resonance with one another. I'll mess up her work, but along the lines that you're talking about with her work that you're referring to. One of the questions you ask yourself in her work, I've been asking myself this now for like a week. It's the last book I read, which is, she talks about, is this true? And are you sure it's true? A thought you have, opinion you have about somebody. But the, one of the questions is who would I be? I didn't have that thought anymore, or I didn't believe that. And I think it's so valuable to ask yourself, like, who would you be if you didn't hold this resentment towards somebody?

15:16yes if you didn't have this very narrow view of who they are that's the one thing about my dad being an AA when I would meet people I realized they're a soul and their their story is not just what they've done but there's a there's a much deeper view of a human of a soul and that we put these people in boxes and we simplify one another who would you be if you didn't hold on to that resentment anymore would you be if you gave them another chance you know who would you be if you opened yourself back up. Anyway, I just, it's amazing that you mentioned that book and her work and, and, and during this time too.

15:50So good. I agree, Ed. And, you know, I've done a lot of the work of Katie's work. And, um, at the beginning, when I was first introduced to it, Ed, um, I don't know about you. I don't know if you've actually sat down and done the, like the work itself on, on paper. Ego is so seductive and it moves so quickly. And so when I started to do the work, I was doing it in my mind. And so I would think of a resentment and, you know, I'd be, you know, just, oh gosh, who would I be? But the real fruit of actually doing the work is to taking time to write it out. And so for those of you, we're speaking about something that's a four-step process.

16:30And, uh, it's called the work by Byron Katie. If you have somebody in your life, a parent or a sibling or anybody in your, that you've disconnected from, or you've chosen to have no contact. I highly invite you. The work is free. You can print it out and you can print it out at thework.com. But what's really powerful is to sit with it and to actually fill out the worksheet and to be still. Can you walk us through those four things? Sure. So the fourth step is, the very first step is, is it true? So for those of you, you keep it really, really simple. So for example, if I was upset with, say, my sister.

17:13And so it's usually the extra narcissist is a great one. It's, you know, we don't do generalized statements, you do something specific. So my sister was, you could say, you know, my sister was, you know, so harsh. The more specific that we are when you go through it, it's like, my sister is so harsh. Is it true? The first step, can you absolutely know that it's true and you go through this process and then so that's the second question can you absolutely know the third one is what you mentioned is who would I be hey guys you want some business advice Shopify let me just tell you something from when I started on this podcast when I was beginning when I have big dream probably like you do I was completely lost other than the idea of it I didn't know how to get online website emails marketing how do you check somebody out?

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18:30Turn those dreams into and give the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash mylet. Go to shopify.com slash mylet. Shopify.com slash mylet. And for those of you listening, who would I be without the thought? My ex, fill in the blank, is whatever, whatever judgment that you have upon them. And then the fourth one I'm complete. Oh, the fourth one is how do I react when I believe that thought? And it's really beautiful. That's where self-reflection comes from, Ed. How do I react when I believe that thought that so and so is harsh or narcissistic?

19:16And, you know, for example, I close off. I shut down. I disconnect. I don't reach out to my sister. I'm harsh with her on the phone. I'm making it up right now. And then the fourth one is the turnaround. And there's a lot of fruit in that as well, Ed, because we start to turn around. It's like, okay, my sister's a narcissist or my sister's harsh. I'm a narcissist. I'm harsh. And you find three examples. And it's so powerful. It's such a simple process. But for anybody that is disconnected from their families, I've done a really poor job articulating the process. You can find it on the school for the work.

20:01But it is truly, it's really profound. And it's life-changing. It is. And I have to say one thing. I'm glad you mentioned it the way you did because I haven't written it down. Oh, you have to. You know, one of the reasons I think I loved my dad so much, and I love people that have been in a 12-step program for a long time, is they do do a form of work. that most people get around to doing. They're much more self-reflective. They're self-aware. There's a humility that comes with the program, I think. Don't you agree? My dad just became this wise man. It wasn't his intellect. It was the self-reflection.

20:38It was the humility of seeing himself in other people that I'm really grateful I caught at least a little of that. I I think as a parent, a lot of things are caught, not taught. I caught a little of it, you know. Did you learn some of that from your dad too? Just that self-reflection and introspection that most people in a fast life of Instagram and work and kids and soccer and friends, they spend no time with themselves. True. We can miss ourselves. And I love how you speak about your daddy, Ed. my father and my mother are just true heroes in my own mind and heart because of that self-reflection because of that ownership because you know like my dad was just he stole cars he you know I mean he ended up in jail he he certainly had his own version of a past but it was always just very forthright.

21:37And I never saw my dad as that man. I had the privilege of experiencing who he is and who he continues to be through evolution. And the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous has been one of those pathways that has hugely, yes, helped to shape my own self-reflection. And I'm so grateful for it because it's a painful place to be when we don't have that self-examination and we live in a world which we experience, you know, whether through politics or through social media, Ed, that has an external frame of blame, has the external, you did this, you said this, you're this, you're that. And I just really feel that, you know, self-examination of seeing how am I being and what may I be missing are two really powerful questions for myself that I constantly inquire because that's something that I can affect.

22:36This is so good. By the way, everybody, we'll move off of AA in a minute, but I want to get to it. No, because I actually, Sage, you're one of the very few public people, myself too, that actually even ever talks about the program at all. And it's such an interesting thing that, and one of the things I want to ask you one more part of it. Now let's say a little bit for a second and that you have done something harsh to somebody. Yes. You know, one of the things that my dad became, one of the steps you guys is making amends. And one of the things I loved about my dad, because a lot of times when somebody gets sober, they can still, my dad used to go, sometimes I'm a dry drunk.

23:12And I would ask my dad, what does that term mean? Daddy goes, well, I still got some of that personality in me still being an alcoholic. I can be pretty edgy in my temper. And my dad would, it's so funny, we'd have a conversation, maybe it didn't go well on the phone. And I would tell my wife, my dad will call me before bedtime tonight. And sure enough, the phone would ring. Hey, I was thinking I was wrong earlier. I'm so sorry if I hurt your feelings. My dad was very quick to apologize and to make amends and to fix that. And it's one of the most redemptive things I think a human being, I wish more of our politicians said, I'm sorry, I made a mistake.

23:48I tried to get it right, but I missed this one. I'm just curious about what your thoughts on that in a relationship, even you and Tony, is to say, I'm sorry, I missed that one. I was wrong. I wonder what you think about the power of making amends in your life and acknowledging a mistake and making that as a part of the healing process. well uh i find it uh so freeing and i really believe it's one of mine and tony's superpowers uh to in our relationship it's uh admission i went blind i was harsh i was a jerk i was whatever i was you know when i spoke to you i was disconnected and i'm sorry i'm sorry versus you did this, you were harsh, you were controlling, we don't see how we behave when we only have an external frame.

24:45And, uh, you know, Tony, it's, it's just that humbleness and willingness. And what's so beautiful is I love that your daddy, that you knew that that was predictable. It was, uh, you know, for Tony or I, if I'm either say, if I left the room within two minutes, I walk back or if not, he's coming after me. Uh, and we both, I think that's the gift when we take responsibility for our experience of life. And we recognize that who's in our life is a gift to love. Uh, you know, that's what a hundred percent responsibility looks like is looking to tidy, you know, tidy up the space. Cause then that creates a newness.

25:29Um, Tony and I've been together over 26 years and we have deeper love and just joy and beauty and laughter and togetherness and just closeness in our family that I never imagined actually at this stage of our relationship. And I really feel that, I don't know, you know, saying I love you is one thing, but to say I'm sorry takes humility and it humbles us. It grounds us a strips ego. Um, and I, I'm so passionate about it and my parents were an example. Uh, and it's been such a gift in mine and Tony's person, personal, our intimate relationship. What about you with you and your lady? I'm curious.

26:14I think so. I think she's probably better at it than I am. I'm, I'm, I'm quicker to do it sometimes. And that's the other part of it too. I think that, I don't know, I, I feel like in my life, whether it be with my wife or any of my friends, um, I want to be better. I, I, I, my outcome in my life at this stage is to be, to be better. And then I kind of know my patterns, you know, thanks to your husband is one of the people that helped me learn this. And one of my, he's such a legend, that guy. He's pretty good. There's no, there's no one like him. I always say, I really feel that Tony's the godfather of this industry that.

26:52Oh, Sage, that's without question. Everyone, people ask me sometimes I will, I was kidding when I opened, I'm sick of this guy. This man changed my life. And people say, what are all the people that have been, I've had 800 something guests on my show. Wow. What do we have in common, right? And I usually say, we're descendants of the Tony Robbins tree. Almost. But I've had Matthew McConaughey on or brain surgeon from Harvard, you know, we've somehow been impacted by Tony Robbins. And I introduced him one time and I meant that I think he's the most influential person of this generation of the last hundred years.

27:24I agree with you. I really believe that. And so. I agree with you. But having said that, you know what's pretty cool to hear for everybody? That even you guys got to work on your relationship. That even the two of you disagree. And that he is also a human and makes mistakes and missteps in life as well. Of course. people hope. Of course. I, you know, when people say like, oh my gosh, it's easy for you. It's, you know, you're Tony and Sage Robbins. I'm always like, what does that mean? We're human beings who miss. And of course, I, I think that's the gift is, is putting these practices to work, to life.

28:01And, you know, Ed, you said something about being a better human being. I don't know that it's about being better. I think it's about becoming our most authentic versions of ourselves or our most sincere. And I experienced that I'm more of my authentic self and there's more sincerity through the willingness to admit. I love that you admitted that your wife will go first more often and say sorry. And so that's such a beautiful practice after this conversation. It's true. Try it on. Just notice, because we all know what closing feels like. It's resistance or when the ego wants to be right or wants to be, it's like my way or to control a circumstance.

28:51It's like, hon, I'm so sorry. I'm like such a knucklehead or I was so harsh or I was an asshole. Whatever you want to say, whatever's true. Not my words, your words, but it's like I spoke in a tone of voice that feels insincere to me. I think that's how you know I don't know if it's better I just think it's I suppose it's more in that state my heart opens because I'm not we what would you say you know we close our heart through defense and through blame and I think we open it through admission and through self-reflection and to act on that to take responsibility and to just Tony and I have a practice It's just like, I'm committed to going first.