Scientists Have Reached a Key Milestone in How to Reverse Aging

27:48And then it's back calculated to say, all right, compared to other humans on the planet, are you older or younger than them? The average male. So I have plotted myself for all of these parameters individually and as a compendium, as an algorithm for one score called the inner age 2.0 score. Where do I sit compared to other 52 year olds? that are white Caucasians. You look so young, yeah. And I'm in the top. I'm better in terms of that number than 98 % of people my age. And that 2 % bothers me. I'm very competitive. And I'm working to get it higher. I want to be, I think there's one or two people out of thousands that are better than me.

28:27But I did go off a statin just to check because I was losing my memory. Yeah. I am on a statin now. Okay. But I went off it and my cholesterol spiked. so your cholesterol did spike it did i mean that i need a statin it's in my genes my father my grandmother have had i'm on one as well oh you are yeah okay yeah yeah i mean i wouldn't say if you if you don't have any problems and you can't if you can get it down with diet do that because there are effects on the brain and one of them is memory yeah yeah one of the other things too is your cholesterol can get too low your ldo can get too low and that's not healthy for your brain either correct that's really true yeah and so you know i'm just saying why why it's two i'm in the top 2%, not 1%.

29:05But anyway, people are going to think I'm a little bit too competitive. Not at all. I have plotted my blood biochemistry over the years against the average human and optimized each one. And it's an experiment. It's long-term. You can't just do it overnight. But I think that's what modern medicine should be, is that we're constantly monitoring ourselves, not going to the doctor once a year for a checkup where they say, how do you feel? Are you sleeping? You feel okay, okay, go home. That's not medicine. That's therapy. Now, medicine is, And the future of medicine, and for some people who want to invest in this and put in their time and money, you can get devices to read your body continuously.

29:43We've talked about continuous glucose monitors in our arm, but there are rings. I've got this aura ring. I've got the ring too. I'm just not wearing it today. I've got the aura ring. Yeah. There's a bio button. I brought one today in case this came up. I'm holding up a little gray squarish device that is maybe quite a quarter of an inch thick that I stick on my chest usually, and it measures my heart, my vibrations, my movement. And this thing can tell you if you're going to have a heart attack next week. Kind of important. But other things, it can even tell you if you have a cold or a flu or whether you need antibiotics or not.

30:17And this is the future. I raise this actually as an example of the way medicine should be, which is you are monitored not once a year, but a thousand times a second. And when that's going to be ubiquitous, then the old way of doing medicine is going to seem medieval. It's so true. And you know, guys, I'm fortunate enough that I have that as well. And it's things like, you know, why do you want things monitored? Because the truth is most cancers caught early are very treatable. It's catching them late. That's a problem. Heart disease caught early is treatable. Like we've talked about with, with, uh, you know, statins or anything like that.

30:49And I'm not making any medical recommendations, nor am I a doctor, nor am I even close to that. And that's why I want to ask you some medical stuff now because I know that you don't feel good about a couple of the things that I do. And I want to ask you about why. So let's talk about things that we can do. So you talked a minute ago about hormone levels. And so I have been on, and I know what you're going to say, but I want you to explain your point of view on this to the audience. Full transparency, the audience knows this. I've been on testosterone, some form of testosterone replacement therapy.

31:20My gosh, it's got to be 10 or 15 years. And I know that that testosterone, at least in my case, negatively, we're getting real detailed here, but it can negatively impact HDL, for example. It can suppress HDL, which mine is already genetically pretty low. So there's a danger, HDL being your good cholesterol. I know that that's a negative to me taking the testosterone. Having said that, I watch friends of mine that I know that are in their 70s that have been males that have been on testosterone therapy for, say, 20 years. And I compare that visually to somebody like my father who passed away last year and Visually externally these guys that were on testosterone look 20 years younger than my dad did And so this i'm not arguing with you about I want to understand it That's why the first thing I asked you today is if you visually look younger Are you likely to be internally younger because visually if you take somebody like?

32:11A very well-known actor that most people know has been open about taking testosterone who's a friend of mine who makes a lot of like boxing movies and stuff. Right. And so you compare him to my father who was about the same age and visually they really looked like different species almost at that age. So what are your thoughts about hormone replacement? And if you're not for it, which I think you probably aren't specifically why? Well, I'm all for keeping your hormones at young levels. Okay. I'm all about keeping the body the way it was when it was 20. And however you can do that and it's safe, do that.

32:49So I'm on board with hormone replacement therapy for women and men if needed. Okay. But you think maybe not needed. I'm interrupting you. Well, that's the point that I have tried my best to find ways in myself to build up. So you're 52. You're in that 300 to 700 range of testosterone in your body, you're saying right now your hormone levels are that normal in your 50s without any Um, I'm, I'm actually naturally higher than an average 20 year old and, but naturally meaning I've worked at it. I've changed things in my diet. Um, I've done things and it's gone. What are some of those things? Well, uh, exercise helped building up.

33:28Um, I'm not as bulky as you, that's for sure. But, but from my basal state, which was pretty puny to having some muscle, uh, my quads mainly big muscles, back muscles as well, doing, um, deadlifts, this kind of stuff. Um, so that helped a lot. Got it up to, was hovering around 500. Okay. It's gone close to double that over the last couple of years with changes to my diet, changes with supplements. But I can't tell you scientifically which one of those has contributed, but it's steadily gone up, which is good. If it had plummeted, I would have stopped taking X, whatever it was. okay um but it's i'm happy with these numbers so it's just under or near a thousand now my that's amazing uh it's it's shocking actually because i haven't done anything obvious you know you read in online what boosts testosterone i'm not doing a lot of that stuff um so i guess i'm lucky that was one of the genetic good hands you were dealt compared to some of the other stuff that wasn't so favorable that's because that's unbelievably high for 52 years old yeah yeah Yeah.

34:36Well, so, you know, I want to be helpful practically. So some of the things that I do are, so this fasting has helped. I think that when I started, well, I don't call it fasting, eating once a day, one meal a day. I got you calling it fasting now. Yeah, that's okay. People know what that is. O-M-A-T-A-D is the other way to do it, to call it one meal a day. But that seemed to help. And so also become giving up a lot of fat and a lot of meat. Now, that's not going to sound good to everybody I know. But I want them to know. Yeah, but I think that that's helped. And I did lose weight. And that may have contributed to, I mentioned how much weight I've lost.

35:18But here's the thing. I don't think it's a bad thing to supplement at all. I'm not against it. I think what you're doing is perfectly acceptable. But I'd heard you say something about burning the candle at both ends. What did you mean by that? Yeah. So it's an abundant signal. Testosterone is, okay, yeah, times are good. build muscle. But then I have to look at the clinical data. And while it won't extend your lifespan, and that's really clear, there have been probably$50 million worth of clinical trials saying that testosterone won't make you live longer. It will help you have more muscle, which will prevent you falling over and breaking your bones, which is a problem for most elderly.

35:56So that's good. But there's also not a lot of downside. There's very little, if any, that I've seen. There's not more cancer. There isn't. No. So put it this way, it's not going to hurt you if you feel better and you're stronger and you look better, by all means. And this is why doctors prescribe it. Otherwise, there'd be a warning. But is it going to make you live longer? It doesn't look like it, unfortunately. One of the challenges I think with it is that, for most people, if some is good, a whole bunch is better. And what I find with people that start to take hormones is you need to be, I think it can become a formative of an addiction.

36:33And that you're like, well, I'm at 800. I look like this. Let me get this thing to 1500 and see what I really look like. And then there are some unhealthy things, your hemoglobin levels, things like that, that you've mentioned already. There are things that can get out of whack that if you're not, you know, you're really careful with it. So that's some of the stuff. I just want to ask you that because it's, it's been very common for women to become on, you know, some form of hormone replacement too. And I've just, in my own case, I'm at my last labs, I was only at 400 with supplementation. And one of the negatives I think certainly for me is that my own body has probably made a decision that it doesn't need to work at it anymore or produce it because I've got this exogenous stuff I keep shoving in my body.

37:10So I do know that once I've made that commitment, I'm sort of committed for life. So there are some, I'm not prone of it necessarily. I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't recommend starting until you need to, until those levels are lower. And here I am telling you what I propose, which is a really fascinating part of the interview. So we've got that. How about any of the peptides? So I'm curious about growth hormone. Yay or nay? Nay. Nay. Why? Well, because there's a lot of evidence, both human and mouse, that when you have low amounts of growth hormone, you live longer. And, well, again, it's this abundance versus adversity.

37:48You'll feel better with growth hormone. You'll heal better. but long term all the evidence points to the opposite that having low levels of these growth signals is better for you. Tumor wise as well this mTOR pathway thing part of the other part of it is its impact on tumors right is there some relationship between those two things with tumors and does growth hormone impact the size of a tumor is it telling everything in your body to grow for example potentially? I mean potentially but fortunately there's there's not a lot of evidence that growth hormone does cause cancer. Okay. So I would say that - But could it cause a cancer in your body to grow potentially?

38:28Well, if you've got one. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's part of the downside of all of these treatments is that it's all fine until you get a tumor and then you could actually help the tumor. Do you feel the way about testosterone or are you saying that about growth hormone or both? Growth hormone more. Testosterone, I think that it's fine. Okay. I know this is stuff you don't normally get asked. That's why I wanted to go there. Sure. Sure. And then the other thing that I take that I think keeps my, I think, at least let's say the evidence points to, I have to speak like a Harvard professor sometimes, is that by activating these other enzymes, the second component out of those three, the sirtuins I work on, you can activate those by doing the kind of things I do in my life.

39:12but I can also take a supplement which raises NAD, capital NAD. And people are taking IVs of NAD supplements. It's a big thing. It was discovered in my lab in part about 2002 when I was a kid. But it's now a big thing. And the reason that NAD is popular is that it activates these sirtuins. And we have seven of those in the body. We talked about this last time. The seven sirtuins are the protectors of the body. There are three of them that protect the DNA and the clock slows down, we think. And then some of them are in mitochondria. There's three there. And then there's one that floats around in between in the water that's in between all of that.

39:55And that's number two. Now, SIRT2 controls hormone production. And if you give it to cells, they'll make more androgens. And one possibility is the reason my testosterone is doing pretty well is I've got super high NAD levels because I've been supplementing for about seven years now with MN, which is a precursor to NAD. Stay there. Okay. I want to go there. So that was the next thing on my list was NAD. So of the people that I know that look freakishly and unusually young for their age, that I have met in say the last 36 months, I cannot get over how many of them have told me that I'm on NAD and I'm on Metformin.

40:35And I'm talking about everywhere from a gym to a golf course to a business meeting. And I'm talking about visually shockingly looking young people, mainly people in their fifties that look like they could be in their thirties or early forties to me. So when you say NAD, do you believe in the IV therapy? Do you believe in the, uh, the stuff you can inject with, uh, subcutaneously, or are you speaking specifically about this precursor that you were referencing? Well, what I believe, um, doesn't so much matter, but the scientific evidence points to taking a supplement every day, a gram of NMN, which is this precursor, stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide for the aficionados.

41:16Just swallowing one of those or a thousand milligrams is enough to double your NAD levels in the bloodstream and triple it if you take two grams. Now, I'm 52. So if I'm an average human, I would have half the levels of this NAD molecule than a 20-year-old. So doubling it is the goal for me. So I've been taking a gram of NMN, swallowing it every day for the last, whatever it is, dozen years, seven years at least. Then the question is, what about the NAD IVs? There's very little data on that. I would say that I have tried it. I've found that it felt fine, especially afterwards. During it, have you tried it?

41:58It's got a little cramping in the tummy area. It does. Yes. I found that on the IV and also I've taken it sub Q and I get a real burning, uncomfortable sensation on my stomach. It's ironic that you say that. It's exactly my experience. So there's some evidence that it's good for treating addiction, but really no solid scientific evidence that it helps in other ways yet. But that doesn't mean it doesn't help. It just means that doctors haven't done enough placebo controls and it's hard to give people a placebo, especially if they're paying for it. Yeah. So I would say the jury's still out, but the science I think is there that it should activate the sirtuins, kick them into action.

42:38And at least for those few hours that you're getting it and it'll go up probably double, triple the levels in your bloodstream. It'll help, but I don't know long-term. I'm so fascinated by the stuff, as everybody can tell. So you're getting stuff here you don't get most other places, you guys. So these are just things to think about. These aren't necessarily recommendations. There's things to think about. Then there's metformin. And so just, you know, I must say this to you. You and I met. This is a passion of mine. I've also had a not great genetic hand. By the way, guys, there's all kinds of stuff we could talk about on genetics today that you can get studied right now to see if you're predisposed to heart disease or different cancers.

43:14You can even find out if it came from your mother or your father's side. There's all kinds of things you could figure out right now. My genetic hand is crap. It's just mom and dad's side, both not good and both cancers and heart disease. So when I met David originally, this conversation really mattered to me. And so I did start on metformin. This is just me personally. I'm telling everybody my own medical stuff. I did start on the precursor for NAD and I've tried the IV stuff and I've tried the sub-Q stuff myself. So metformin helps with glucose in the body somehow, the metabolism of glucose, correct?

43:51So why do you think metformin works and do you feel real strong like you did last time that you were here about it? Yeah, I feel even stronger. There's a lot of data from looking at tens of thousands of people that went on metformin. And people who go on metformin who have type 2 diabetes who normally would live a short lifespan because they have more cardiovascular disease, they're aging faster. they're actually protected from these diseases relatively. And those type 2 diabetics on metformin live longer than people that don't have type 2 diabetes. That's a remarkable observation. And because once you start to study tens of thousands of people, it starts to look real.

44:29And especially for those people that are predisposed like you are to cardiovascular disease and other issues like cancer. There it's very clear that metformin on average protects you against those diseases. because it's not just working on keeping your glucose levels down. Remember, it's turning on the mitohormesis and protecting the body through these defense mechanisms. Now, people might be thinking, well, okay, you've got these protective mechanisms, but what are they actually doing to make you healthier? Well, I've mentioned only one of the things they do, which is turning over those old proteins that are either oxidized or have glucose stuck to them.

45:03But they do other things. They do protect telomeres when you turn them on, but they do another thing that's really interesting, are, and that is that they can rejuvenate stem cells. And so you get stem cells protected, and then they can divide and then they can repopulate the body. Hmm. Another thing that they do really well, particularly the sirtuins, is that they help repair broken DNA. Anyone who's been in the sun, I was Australian, I've been damaged badly by the sun. That ages you. It actually is, we know that damage to DNA accelerates aging. In my lab, we can cause a mouse to be 50 % older by doing this process.

45:37The sirtuins will slow that down. We had a paper in Science in 2018 that showed that by raising NAD levels, by giving mice NMN, the same molecule that I take, their DNA repair systems were much more efficient. And if you damage them with radiation, which we were trying to simulate space radiation, but it's also similar to cosmic rays that you get if you fly a lot, which I know you do, NMN was protecting those mice from the damage. And you can see the damage. You look in their livers that was damaged, damaged, damaged in a normal mouse and give them NMN and it wasn't there for the most part. So that's another way it can protect against aging.

46:13So good. So good. We're going to keep going because I love this. Any disclaimers on any of this that we've said so far that you would say to somebody who says, I got to get on this metformin or NAD. Is there any disclaimer, any downside, anything you would advise them to do just so that I make sure everyone's heard the totality of your thoughts about it? Yeah. Well, one disclaimer is I'm actually not a trained physician. I train physician, but I'm not a trained physician. I'm a PhD who studies molecules. And so there's that. So anytime you want to change something in your body, even if it's diet, but if it's a supplement and of course a drug, you need your doctor, you want to consult them.

46:50So your doctor needs to know everything that's going on in your body because supplements are sometimes just as powerful as drugs. And if you cannot get, for example, this is a good point I think to bring up is if you cannot convince your doctor to get metformin, there is an alternative. You know what I'm going to say? It's a plant molecule called berberine from the berber plant. And in clinical trials, if you take it at two grams a day, it does lower blood glucose similar to metformin and that you can buy on any pharmacy or online. That's where I began. After we did our interview, I went to my doctor and I said, we're getting on metformin.

47:27And she said, no, we're not, not right now, not yet. and um and so that's where i began and then after a period of time she did a little bit more research and agreed have you done any reading on mott's c at all i've done more than reading okay what do you know about mott c not see well i know the scientists involved and i helped them start a company come on now really okay i'm kind of embedded in this field i know but this is around i'm older than you might think um so mott c is really interesting i really like it okay i liked it so much I started a company. So MOTC is a super interesting molecule from an academic standpoint and from a physiological standpoint.

48:09MOTC is made not by the DNA, from the DNA in the nucleus, which is most of our chromosomes. It's from the chromosome that's in mitochondria. It's a mitochondria because they're like these bacteria. They have their own circular DNA. It's not a chromosome, it's a circular. And embedded in that circle piece of DNA in the mitochondria is a little gene called MOTC, capital M-O-T dash C. And the mitochondria make this little peptide, a little piece of a protein, the peptide is just a small protein, that gets leached out into the bloodstream and tells the rest of the body that a certain part of the body is experiencing hormesis.

48:49So when you exercise, your body is secreting MOTC into the body. And MOTC is really small. You can synthesize it and you can even get it. I don't know if it's still available in the US, but it's in clinical trials right now in this company. It's called COBAR, C-O-H-B-A-R. Okay. And it's looking promising as a treatment for fatty liver, but hopefully other age-related diseases. Maybe even plaque removal and stuff like that, right? And there's all kinds of fascinating stuff. So I'm so glad that we got a chance to talk about all this stuff today. Okay. So some practical stuff just for a second or exciting stuff.

49:25CRISPR. We've talked a little bit about CRISPR, but this concept, where are we at able being able to actually alter DNA? Like I've had some friends of mine that, you know, knew I was going to be talking to you today and they're like, please get like the update. So tell everyone here what CRISPR specifically is, but where are we at on our where right now where are we and if you were to forecast say within the next five years where do you believe we are unable to actually alter dna that way yeah well right now it's it's possible to add genes to humans we've cured not we but scientists and doctors have cured genetic diseases that way incredible blind people are seeing again yes but it's only a small it's thousands of people it's not millions yet but we are getting better at it and eventually probably in certainly in this decade uh we'll see people being able to add genes to their bodies more commonly but crispr is different crispr is not adding genes it's actually changing your genetic makeup permanently and so where we're at is there are there are some genes or some studies that have shown that it works in humans you can correct sickle cell anemia and fix that that one's a little easier because it's in the bloodstream trying to fix alzheimer's with CRISPR is going to be a lot more challenging.

50:41The blood is easy to access. And the way we do it is we put a CRISPR system, which is an enzyme that you can direct to change the DNA with a barcode. So our DNA has different letters. There's six feet of this DNA molecule in every cell. And there are these four letters, ACTG, and they're in different sequence. And what CRISPR does, that's kind of incredible, if you think about it, is that you can give it a code that says, go find the sequence that's A-T-G-C-A-G-C, and it'll find it in billions of combinations in that six foot and go in and just change that. Incredible. It is. It's a barcode. And so I would say in the next five years, it'll be fairly common to fix genetic diseases with CRISPR.

51:32And then things get really interesting when we start to fix things that aren't genetic. Maybe we want to all fix our predisposition to diabetes. We could potentially go in and fix that before we actually get that disease and make up for not having great genetic lineages. If you put a time horizon on that, what would you think something like that would be? Well, probably for the healthy people, it's going to take longer, right? Doctors would rather do no harm than do good. and so that's probably 15 years away from being mainstream. There are other technologies, one called siRNA, which is similar, but it actually stops the production of protein rather than changing the genes.

52:12It's one step down. And that's being shown, and there's a drug on the market to treat high cholesterol and even there's a drug for fatty liver. And so increasingly we're able to change the genetic code or the codes that are coming off the genetic code, which is RNA, which we all have heard about because of COVID. But yeah, it's amazing that we can now read the DNA and rewrite it. And in my work, we've just recently figured out how to turn on three embryonic genes in the body. Okay. And when we do that, just the right three genes, that resets the age of the tissue and it gets rejuvenated. Are you kidding me?

52:53This is work you're doing right now. So in addition to, I'm just processing all this. I think when we first talked about this, I'm like, yeah, it'll be in there. The adding genes thing, they'll do a little of that. But to actually alter the genetic sequence of somebody, that won't be in my lifetime. And you're saying that you believe that in some form of that will be in the next five-ish years we'll be doing that? Well, there are patients already that have had it done, but for it to be mainstream. Mainstream. Yeah. Five to 15, depending on the disease. The more severe, the faster the FDA acts.

53:25What are you most excited about right now? In your work, this is the stuff I'm the most excited about right now. That's easy. Your face just changed too, by the way, when I asked you. It's easy. So we published a year ago on the cover of Nature magazine, which is the highlight of any scientist's career, that we could reset the age of a complex tissue. We chose the mouse's eye. We let mice get old and blind. and we reprogrammed their eye using these three genes. They're called OS and K for short. And we turned the age back 80 % and they were able to see again. And so what we're talking about is having found that there's a reset switch in the body to be young again.

54:06And the information in the body to be young is still there. So theoretically, you could take someone who's 100 years old and reset their body to be young again. Now, the exciting thing is we've been doing clinical trials or preclinical trials. And there's no apparent downside to this yet. Isn't that great? That's incredible. Yeah. And so I went home that day and I said, hey, we've cured blindness. And my family went, yeah, can you just unpack the dishwasher? That was a sad day. That's when I knew I could never impress my family. But we had been working ever since. We first made this discovery about three years ago.

54:39It ended up being in my book, a little bit of it. And it was a thrill to make this discovery. But since then, we've been doing the hard work, which is to figure out, is it safe enough to put into humans. And we're now testing it in non-human primates just to see if it's safe. Oh my gosh. And if all goes well in the next two years, we'll hopefully cure blindness in people. That is absolutely freaking incredible. That is absolutely bananas. But it gets better. Okay. The eye was just something we chose. I didn't think it would work any better in the eye. In fact, I thought it'd probably work worse.

55:09But we found that there's a universal reset switch. So you can reset different parts of the body. You can reset the skin. We've shown you can reset muscle. You can reset, what have you done? Yeah, the skin was easy. So using the same genes. So we're just basically turning on an embryonic program in older people or middle-aged in their cells and in mice and they get young again. What does this mean? This means one day it's going to be possible to reset the age of the body. We've done that. We've done that in mice. Now the question is, how soon can we get it into ourselves? That's bananas. Here's the guy that grew up with skeptics all over his house.

55:48Let's assume that that's true. Did everyone just hear what he just said, by the way, that we may be able to reset the age of a human. We've already been able to do this now and other organisms. That's a minute to just process that, right? And as I process it, I go, wow, that's exciting. I hope I can live long enough so that I can reset my clock. That's the key. Right. The stuff we've talked about today, the eating, the exercise, well, what's the other thing? Hot, cold. These are designed, and the supplements, to keep us all alive until this technology becomes available. Because it's not just one thing to slow down aging, which we can do pretty easily just by doing these lifestyle changes, but to reset the age.

56:28There's a study from UCLA. Jeez Louise, that's crazy. It gets crazy. There's a study by Steve Horvath and Greg Fahey, it was published during the first few months of the pandemic. They treated people for a year with a combination of metformin, a bit of growth hormone and DHEA to offset some of the problems with growth hormone that can cause type 2 diabetes. And they found that when they measured the clock of the body, it went back by about two years. and at the time i thought yeah okay two years that's not a lot but then i started thinking if you could do that every year right right that'd be pretty interesting you're literally aging in reverse right right and i don't know about immortality i'd just be happy with an extra 10 years of healthy life or even two years but we're at a point now where we're able to control aging pretty easily in my lab we can drive aging forwards and backwards in mice at will aging is malleable now that we have an understanding of how it's controlled and what causes it and we even have mini brains in the lab.

57:27We can take human cells. So, Ed, I can take your skin cells. I can make them into stem cells that are pluripotent, meaning I can make anything from you. If I wanted to, and this is not kidding, I could make a sperm out of your skin cells and an egg and fertilize that. So, you can clone me. I could clone you. I won't do that because it's illegal, but biologically, we could do that. My gosh. I'm going to get all sorts of phone calls. You are. There we go. I'm going to get the emails. Hey, can you clone me? Yeah. No, but what's important is I can make organs, mini organs from you and test drugs. And what we're doing in the lab is we have - Wow, yeah.

58:02Yeah. Yeah. Personalized medicine. Yeah. Wow. So when you come to my lab and you have to promise you're going to come, I'll show you, we grow these mini brains in the lab. Absolutely. And we've got them from people that are predisposed to Alzheimer's or not. And we have a way to age those brains so that they're now 80 years old, even though they're only a few months old and they lose their ability to fire electrically. They become demented in the dish, little mini brains. On Instagram, I've shown some photos of these. They're pretty cute. And so we give them Alzheimer's and dementia in the dish.

58:32And then what we do is we have the system to turn on those three embryonic genes, OS and K, and those brains go back in age. But here's the cool thing. Alzheimer's goes away. The electrical activity comes back. Now we do this in a mouse. We make the mouse older, just let them age out, or we accelerate it, and we've been now reversing the age of those brains in the mice, and you can guess what happens. They get their memory ability to learn back. Unbelievable. Do you hear what you're saying? It's unbelievable. This is my day job, so it doesn't seem that exciting, but it is when I talk about it.

59:05It's the most exciting stuff. Listen, we're in this time where there's all this doom and gloom about our wellness and health and the pandemic and all these other things. And it's stuff to be very cognizant of and pay very close attention to. But right with the same time, I feel like Sergey Young and I were talking about this too, who I know you, you know, Sergey and like Sergey as well. It's almost like, I mean, if you can find a way right now to stay on this planet healthy for the next 10 or 20 years, if you can manage to do that, that there might be an extension of your life at a magnitude of another 20 or 30 potentially healthy years, possibly.

59:43And you said 10 earlier. You just find a way to extend your life. And the finding the way is what we're describing. The hot and cold, the not eating so daggum much, right? The really getting sure about your glucose and how you process it in your body and taking a look at this metformin and NAD and these other things. And if you can really start to get that stuff together and exercise and eat healthy and put the right foot, there may be a completely different world we're living in in a matter of a decade. Yeah, exactly right. And already, because technology is changing so fast already, and it's only going to go exponential, every year that you stay alive, you get another three months of life.

1:00:19Right now. Right now. Stay alive. Because eventually it's going to be for every year you stay alive, you get another year. And eventually you're going to have negative birthdays. Come on, Dave. I used to say that this was futuristic. Yeah, you did. This is why it has so much credibility with me. You used to say many years ago, this is far off. This is possible. So for you to be the one telling me, no, here's the window that it's possible in, probable or possible, carries so much credibility. I've got some of the best scientists working with me on this, not just at Harvard, but in companies who know how to make drugs.

1:00:52So this isn't just, oh, one day it'll happen. There's investors. Yeah, sure. Other investors have jumped in. So Jeff Bezos and others have put large amounts of money. There are billions now to figure this out. so even if I don't make it you know I God willing don't have a heart attack but if I do you know the genie's out of the bottle this is going to happen it's just a question of when. What it means to be I'm just thinking myself as you're talking what it means to be a human being it's going to potentially be very different experience within a decade what it means and all of the just the pain and suffering so many people have gone through in lives with cancers and heart disease and losing people that are still here to Alzheimer's and things like that, to think about the quality of life.

1:01:39And people ask me all the time, I was just on a call before we did this with a coaching group I have with all of the stuff going on in the world right now, you know, and I, and I, I told them I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic about humanity. I'm optimistic about life. I'm optimistic about our world. And that's not Pollyanna. I have reasons to believe it. And you know, you, my friend are one of those reasons. I just learned from you and feel so inspired by you. Is there a negative to people living so much longer? I think of things like food supply or things like that. Do you ever think about those things?

1:02:08We got to be really careful here because there might be an issue we've not factored in. In other words, do other technologies need to be keeping pace if humans are going to live longer? Yeah. The answer is yes. And that's the subject of my next book, actually. How do we get out of this mess that we're in? This mess that we're in of living longer? No, the mess that the world we've created. Okay, got you. Of the stress and the bad food around us. Living longer is part of the solution, actually. Okay. So by helping yourself, you actually help save the planet. And that may sound counterintuitive, but let me explain.

1:02:40First of all, there's an economic benefit to living longer. Healthy, right? Productivity. Sure. Spending. The economy is driven by people who are healthy and dragged down by people who are not healthy. Good point. Yeah. And we did the calculation. By we, I mean a couple of brilliant economists in London, and I was just the third wheel. but they calculated that if you could just extend lifespan by one year, let's say everyone went on Metformin who could take it, then the savings in the long run to the US would add up to$86 trillion. If you extend it to a decade, it's$365 trillion with a T. This is more money than you can get by doing anything, save stopping all military spending, which we wouldn't do.

1:03:23but that kind of money can be put towards solving issues like climate change food supply sure the other thing that i do and i i don't often mention this because it's often you know not the subject that people want to hear about but i also work on other problems on the planet um i have a company that detects viruses and bacteria can diagnose anything from your blood that's just one but the one that's relevant that you reminded me is um i actually i wrote a co-wrote a patent on the plane over here to California from Boston to preserve fruit. And so the same molecules and coatings on fruit that, well, the same molecules that work in our bodies also work in plants.

1:04:03In fact, plants make most of these molecules that we ingest. It's one of the reasons I eat stressed out plants because they make these molecules. Long story short, I'm hoping to extend the shelf life of fruit around the world. And there's a huge amount of fruit and vegetables that are thrown away every day. Perishes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're a remarkable brother. Is there something that keeps you up at night that you worry about? Um, I don't get kept up at night worrying. I get kept up at night working and talking to people. Um, I do worry a bit that I'm not going to achieve my life's goal, which is to have a medicine that helps millions of people that would satisfy me.

1:04:42I don't care about prizes and all that stuff. I've won a few and it doesn't do anything. What I'm hoping for is for a little vial of a drug, some medicine that saves millions of lives. And then I'll be, honestly, I'll be happy. And I'm guided by a mentor of mine, Philip Sharp, who is at MIT. And he actually literally won a Nobel Prize. Does he have his Nobel Prize on the wall? No. He has a little vial of the drug that he made. And that's what he tells me is important to him. That's so good, David. Okay. A couple more things. Is there any other additional, I'm just processing what we've talked about today.

1:05:21I feel so good that you were here. I want to just say this to you. I always learn when you're around me and I feel more optimistic with evidence based in fact of why I feel more optimistic. And I'm grateful that I get to share the conversation today with millions of people that listen to the show. Like there are some shows when I do them and I'm in the midst of doing them and I'm like, I'm so grateful for this experience. And that's now twice with you. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Milet show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes.

1:05:57You'll never miss an episode that way. Would you like to live to 200 years old? Would you settle for 150, right? Well, this man doesn't want to settle for 150. He doesn't settle for 120. funny he's an author he's got a book out called the science and technology of growing young by sergey young sergey young welcome to the program hi everyone i'm so excited to be here with you today what we're going to do today is we're going to go through the different you know parts of doing it now as well so yes i want to talk about things that are they may seem basic i want to say one thing for me if you agree with this sergey just the intention just having the intention of living longer, just making that an outcome of yours as a human being, I believe opens up a space that didn't exist in your life and in your world prior to thinking that thought, just the thought alone that I'm going to live a long time and picking a number, I think to having a number.

1:06:50Do you agree with that? Or is that crazy? Yeah, look, I'm a big fan of it. So I'm typical placebo man, actually. That's why I like supplements, right? I have plenty of supplements Because, you know, like 30 or 40 % of the outcome of the positive result from the supplements comes from placebo effect. And I'm so I'm typical placebo man. So my motor, every morning I wake up and my mantra is I'm going to be living to 200 healthy and happy years in a body of 25 years old man. So imagine I started to do it a couple of years ago. my life has changed. Because imagine every morning I wake up and three-fourths of my life is ahead of me.

1:07:32I have plenty of plans. I can even excuse myself for three years from this planet to go back and forth to Mars. And my family is not going to be pissed off. I have four kids. I'm an investor, so I call it, I'm the founder of diversified portfolio of four kids. The psychological aspect of aging is really important. I agree with you. Your target age, if you put it like 10, even 20 years below that your calendar age, will do amazing things with your body and your mind. You're so right. Just experiencing you and your energy. I got to tell you, my audience is diverse. There's people 14 years old listening to this.

1:08:10There's people in their 70s. But one thing is when I hit my 40s and 50s, I started to say things that were insanely stupid. Like, I'm old. I'm old now. I'm old now. Just those statements. And people say, you're not old. And you don't look old either. By the way, physically, you look 25 years old. And I said, I feel it. But just the verbal part of it. And it's not it's not part of the book. We're going to get into the details now. I just want everyone to have that intention of living that long in the body of a 25 year old. I love the way you describe that. Now, let's talk about stuff right now.

1:08:39There's six things that Sergei typically talks about that you could be doing right now. And we can go through most of them if you want. But one thing that I do is I because I've had some heart issues. I do regular lab work, regular checkups with my doctor. I'm talking quarterly for me. And for a while, I was doing it every other month. Most people will go years without seeing a doctor unless they get sick. So talk about some of your six things people could do right now to right now engage living longer and more healthy. Yes, beautiful. So for me, it's the most important part of the book. This is why I am in longevity.

1:09:15I mean, all these exciting technologies, which will be available to us in the next 10, 20 years, this is all great. But for me, change starts today or tomorrow morning. But that's like the only optionality that you have. So some people find it boring. That's why I created this Sergey Young guy. That's why I've developed this horizon to live 250 years. And then the far horizon of longevity to live to 200 years in the form of, you know, internet of bodies, human brain, AI integration, human avatars. But like, we don't need to wait for another 10 to 20 years. There's so many things that you can do today.

1:09:50Again, it's called boring stuff. And to live to at least 100 healthy and happier. Unless you are really unlucky in genetic lottery. And this is like really rare. You need to have like really rare genetic disease. And then it's a separate discussion. We're working on that as well. There's so many things that we shoot and we can do today. So then one caveat before that, we humans, we like one silver bullet. And people always ask me, like, Sergey, like, what are like just one thing that I need to do to sort out this kind of health stuff? And I'm always saying, if one answer to aging and age-related diseases would exist in this world, And it's either Mother Nature in a process of evolution or scientists in a process of scientific research will find this answer.

1:10:41So it's in human biology is the most complex and fascinating field I've ever discovered for myself. So be prepared. It's always a combination of things and you need to follow through on many dimensions. Number one, and this is when I have 30 seconds on longevity. I talk about this is exactly the thing that you just mentioned. doing your medical screening. We just need to understand we're living in a completely different world today. Like 20, 40 years ago, there was zero value of you knowing if you have cancer or not. It was actually negative value because cancer was kiss of death. And you just kind of got the information that you're going to survive for another six or nine months on this planet.

1:11:22And that's it, you've done. People were deferring their cancer screening days because, I mean, And there was like zero useful information and the outcome from that. Right now, making sure you do early diagnostic of cancer, increase your recovery rates from 20%, 30 % to 90 % to even 100%. So your opportunity and ability to survive and actually to sustain the quality of your lifestyle and the quality of your health is enormous. And for majority of cancer types, early diagnostic of cancer, stage one, early stage cancer is 93 to 100 percent for major cancer types. This is amazing. Like some of the machines that we see in the hospitals today, they just it's it's really space machines like MRI machine, three Tesla MRI.

1:12:18They have the artificial intelligence driven brain, right? Network algorithm updated every month. And the last two years, so I'm doing my annual screening every year in San Diego, California, in Human Longevity Center set up by our very good friends. So the same place. Yeah. Yeah. So two, in the last two years, it was actually, after I've done full body MRI, It was artificial intelligence scanning and looking through my scans. And then it was a discussion with doctors. So it's radiologists empowered with artificial intelligence, increase exponentially your chances to get the analytics right, the diagnostic right and survive.

1:13:07Just one figure. And it's fascinating. So every radiologist working under the time pressure, which is probably 100%, 150 % of time of their working mode, is successful in diagnostic early stage breast cancer in 38 % of cases. Crazy. That's awesome. If you empower the same man or woman with a beautiful profession, empower him or her with artificial intelligence algorithm, the ability to detect grows to 98 to 99%. That's amazing. And we've been investing in so many companies. Diagnostic comes to our home, like, you know, all this Cologar, using our blood test to detect like the risk of colon cancer.

1:13:54Yes. It's just amazing. So, well, just make sure the most important day of your life every year is the day of your annual screening. If you want to do it quarterly, this is great. Just to jump in, I just want to stay on this. First off, I want you to hear what he said there because I didn't look at it that way. Early stage detection of disease, cure rates and survival rates on most diseases are incredibly high. Detected early. We die from these diseases because it's stage three when we find it. It's stage four when we find it. in my case i don't have perfect genetics when it comes to plaque accumulation of my arteries i detected it in my 30s i'm still with you here because i was doing regular lab screenings and so guys if you don't go to the longevity center in san diego get an executive physical once a year get your blood looked at the way that they look at blood now everybody it's not hdl ldl there's little particle big particle there's there's your your liver enzyme levels there's all these things there's your lipoprotein little a there's these things you don't even need to know what they are just know that they're tested for now and if you haven't been there in a while do it at least once a year and i think this starts in our 20s i really believe that so i just want to second what he has said there as if i'm anywhere near the expert he is but we do have similar friends and we've been on a similar journey so i just want to really stamp that one is so important yeah this is and and this is much cheaper like prevention is 10 to 20 times cheaper than treating something when it, when disease manifests itself, because this is very old school, like 30, 50 years ago, you need to wait until disease will manifest itself.

1:15:30And this is why, when you see a dogger right now, you define when you need to see a dogger and it should be like super regular. So that's one. So I want to go, I want to focus on a couple of them, Sergei, just because we have so many of the future things I want to talk about too. Two is let the food be the medicine. I want you to read the book to get that one, guys. That's why you go get a book, right? What's the food? What's the medicine? Third is get moving. My audience is pretty good at that. Exercise, moving, those kind of things. Here's a biggie. Eat early and less often. What do you mean by that?

1:16:01Can you define that for us? So basically, well, there's a lot of disagreement what actually extends our life in academic circle, but it's one agreement. If you decrease the calorie intake, if you literally decrease the number of calories that you take every day by 15 to 25 percent, of course, you need to look at the balance between physical activity and the calorie intensity. But so it actually extends your life by two, three, five healthy and happy years. That's a big thing. Well, it's easier to say, well, Sergey, you need to last 15 to 25 percent less calories, but it's very difficult to do.

1:16:38So what are my life hacks on that? One, I do fasting. So, you know, I fast 36 hours every week. Wow. Two nights and one day. It's actually Sunday. Yeah. I started on Sunday evening or on Monday evening. And then I, you know, just two nights and just one day during Monday, I just drink, you know, some water, herbal tea and that's it. Can I ask about that, Sergei? Can I inquire about that? So, because the fasting I've had intermittent fasting, we've talked about this but 36 hours Phil Mickelson the professional golfer started doing that about two years ago he's been a guest on my show he says he feels literally 20 years younger doing it when you began doing that because I've not done it I've done some intermittent fasting that 36 hour thing okay I want to ask you about this did you just right off the bat goes 36 hours or did you build up did you do 24 for a while or do you just go 36 and you're fasting for the 36 hours yeah so i i started to do 24 hours fasting but then it's well what is happening like in the first 17 18 hours of fast and i'm i'm speaking about the average man or woman right we are not average like this let's say it's actually the beauty of technology it's going to be much more personalized but like within the first you know 16 18 hours of fasting but it just cleans itself right your autophagy actually start after this period well that's that's the beauty of that when your old cells which your body doesn't need them yeah you can actually clean it in the process of fasting but as this whole thing starts after you know 17 or 18 hours of fasting that's why i didn't feel really i i haven't thought that it's logical just to do like 18 hours of fasting and And then like the sweetest period, like the best period of fasting, I start to eat again.

1:18:26Well, so I've done 24 hours. And then I thought, okay, well, Sergey, I mean, you're sleeping during the night anyway, don't you? And I'm like, okay, well, that's a trick, but what I can do. So, and I thought rather than starting to eat, so you mentioned I start Monday evening, rather than starting to eat on Tuesday evening, I was like, can I just extend it to like Wednesday morning? and um and obviously i'm i'm it's difficult sometimes to uh go to bed if you're hungry and um do you get hungry anymore do you still get hungry no but what i do in the evening i just like i take uh fiber yeah uh yeah and it's yeah zero calories uh with the water with herbal tea it fills my stomach a little bit and then i go to bed but like literally you just need to see me like on a Monday evening at 9 PM when I'm going to bed after the first 24 hours of sleep.

1:19:22This is amazing. This is like the best sleep I have during my week. You feel so light. You feel so energetic. Yeah. I mean, you literally feeling young and that's the beauty of that. Yeah. I'm going to start Sunday night. I'm going to start. Just give it a start, but like, make sure like, you know, pre fasting day, post fasting day, concentrate on vegetables. don't do a lot of like heavy stuff like meat protein or fish protein um etc but otherwise like the best diet is is a balanced diet and everybody that's listening to this that's a bodybuilder because i've had a few the point then if you're a bodybuilder and you're training for huge muscles and you're not uh gonna fast for 36 hours because you're taxing yourself and you may need some of those proteins i think listening to what sergey has said about 15 to 20 less caloric intake you could still get away with doing that by uh just because these these bodybuilders these fitness people that listen to my show that segment of the audience they're incredibly food disciplined already right oh yeah just focusing on that because that is the consensus in aging less food processed through your body longer life by two to five years so that's this is why i had sergey on you guys i do think it's important to put it in the context uh of um your physical routine as well So, I mean, you don't need to be binary about this whole thing, but like if you take out this kind of fasting pressure from your everyday, you know, following like 18 hours of fasting and like six hours of food intake, if you just put it in the context of the week, it might be actually much more useful and easier to implement.

1:20:58Okay. So guys, I want to go through you, through his list with you. One, get regular checkups to let the food be the medicine three get moving for eat early and less often. And then the last two, I'll have you talk about these five is constantly work on quitting bad habits. And six is make sleep your superpower. What are those bad habits? And what about sleep? Because that's changed my life, my sleeps, my sleep situation. I'll let you go there. Yeah, so bad habits. Basically, sometimes we do really stupid or risky choices in our life. And that's the problem. And people think it's something superficial.

1:21:39So tobacco smoking, it's minus 10 years from your lifespan. And this is awful. And I thought it's pretty rare because we don't see these people on the street because right now, from regulatory perspective, it's prohibited. But like, if you look at statistics, 25 to 30 % of adults is still doing tobacco smoking, minus 10 years. Not always using your seatbelts is minus two years from your life. Just riding motorcycle is 17 times more dangerous than driving the car. 17. Mortality rates from motorcycle accidents is like 17 times car. What about alcohol? Yeah. Alcohol and coffee. like two my favorite questions.

1:22:22So I'll come back to that. Just one final example, which I wanted to mention. So I've been blessed with a lot of travel experience. A few years ago, I just went through the book of Tim Ferriss for four hours work week, and I had my wish list. And so I went to North Pole and South Pole. And actually, I mean, it sounds really risky. It's just beautiful places on earth, but like, it's not that risky. So then I had an opportunity to join the group of guys who were climbing Mount Everest, the highest mountains on earth. And I look at statistics there and it was like 6 % mortality rate. And I said, Oh, look, I'm not sure I can afford that.

1:23:01And, but here's the story. Two months ago, I received an email from my very good friend from California. She's an amazing woman entrepreneur. And she's like, well, Sergey, I'm about to climb the most dangerous mountain on earth. And so the name of this mountain is K2. And you know what mortality rate for this is 25%. So Russian ruler, right? You just, it's 17%. Yeah, it's a dangerous game. It's like 17 % of dying. It's like really, yeah, putting your salaries. But like one out of four is not going to come back. I'm like, oh no, I'm not in this business. So that's very important. And we think it's not with us, okay?

1:23:45It's about some other people. We never do this kind of stupid choices. So the polite version of this is called passive longevity. I do think it's extremely important. Okay. Okay. So that's one. And sleep. You know, I was, and probably, I don't know if you had Matthew Walker on your show. Amazing guy. So in the book called, I think it's called Why We Sleep. This is my book of year 2019. I changed completely my sleep routine. Because before that, we all very active people. We want to do this, this and that. And there's so many exciting things in the world. So I was just borrowing my hours from my sleep credit.

1:24:26Literally, my every sleeping time was somewhere around five hours. And I'm like, but after this book, my rule is eight hours in the bed, seven hours of sleep. And I measure, I actually like, I just started to test Whoop. I like Whoop sleep algorithm. I actually have 97 % sleep efficiency this night. Where's my sleep? I use Aura. Do you like Aura or no? Yes, I'm actually, it's in my home. So I'm using Aura as well. I actually find Aura algorithm a little bit more forgiving. So sometimes you have not a great kind of night and Aura is stuck. You still did well. It's good, like, because I'm a positive person.

1:25:12Like, even if something is bad, if I, you know, if I name it positive, it's actually positive for me. But nevertheless, I don't think it does matter, like, what particular wearable you use. All of the algorithms that you can use is great for that. But I just want to quote a very good friend of mine. He is founder of Longevity Clinic in London. And so, first time I met him, same question. Like, what is the one thing that you would suggest me to do? And he's like, Sergei, every evening we can visit the most powerful clinic in the world. We go to bed. I'm like, oh my goodness, what a beautiful way to put this whole thing and describe the importance of sleep.

1:25:55It's like, we can't really underestimate. There's no alternative activity to sleep in terms of sustaining your hormonal balance. This is extremely important. And like, and hormones are the things like, I mean, and I, and I do think you discussed it with David Sinclair, right? Like any extreme is bad. Like, you know, lack of hormones is not like excessive hormones. Your aging is accelerating, but like, so your body has this beautiful mechanism that you couldn't really figure out through this, you know, medical science or artificial intelligence, how to balance your hormones. It just works this way.

1:26:29So use that. you you blow my mind because um and we're gonna get to wine and coffee back in a second and then we're gonna go to future things but some of them are the future but i uh i wanted to ask you about hormones in a minute too but i want to say this one thing about the sleep that he just referenced um my first book i kind of almost bragged about the fact that i went on less sleep than most people and as i've done my show for a long time done more reading more research it's one of the things that i am most focused on in my life is my sleep and i just want everyone in the audience to know that research it.

1:27:01You know, I've had Sean Stevenson on my show. I've had lots of people about sleep. I've got apps I used to help me sleep deeper. I've got aura that tracks it. I've got the cool room. I've got a chili pad that David or that Tim Ferriss talks about. I do anything I can. The room is dark. All these things they teach you to get into the best sleep state because people like Sergey have encouraged me through their writings and teachings to do it. And it's made a huge, huge difference for me. Okay. We don't want to skip over wine and coffee. Does it hurt us? And how much? Okay. So this is funny. This is a lifestyle perspective on that.

1:27:37Well, I'm big fan of red wine, specifically American wines. After I started to do a lot of business in the U S I'm in love with what do you guys have there? So, and I started to dig into this station and And I'm also a big fan of coffee. Okay. So I do believe, you know, you need to have your kind of cheat things, right? Whether it's a burger on Saturday or for me, it's one or two espresso a day. So my answer is like, if you look at the research on coffee and wine, the graph always looks like that. Okay. Tell everybody what you're describing for the audio people. What do you show? Okay, so you can see that there's like, the graph is pretty flat, but there's like optimal point, which is one or two glasses of wine per occasion or one or two espresso a day.

1:28:36Got it. So you have this in statistical terms, you have like relatively, so you can always say like, you know, one or two espresso a day is good for your longevity. But the shape of this curve is in statistical terms is really insignificant. So this like, unless you really overdoing this with coffee or you really overdoing this with alcohol, with, with wine, it's just, I don't think it's influenced a lot your longevity, but having said that alcohol, um, and, and specifically excessive, um, consumption of alcohol is a really bad things for your body. Because from a certain point of view, after one or probably two glasses, your liver changed the way it's processed the alcohol.

1:29:21Because before, like, you know, one glass during the evening, it can absorb, you know, everything. It's going to be, you know, super friendly for your body. After that, well, it's a completely different mechanism, okay? It's actually converted this whole excess of energy and alcohol into fat. So, that's a problem. So my rule is one or two glasses per occasion, which is basically my definition of occasion. It's either Friday or Saturday. Okay. Once a week. And this is fine. You can do it. But not more than two glasses of red wine. Particularly like red. I think white is particularly beautiful as well.

1:30:01But not every day. Because after the age of 40 or 45, you'll find yourself in trouble with everyday conception. Even if it's just one glass, it just changes your mood. It's like, look at if you use Oura Ring or you use Whoop, like whatever algorithm to track and sleep that you're currently looking at. You can see that after a couple of glasses of wine, your deep sleep period starts not around midnight, but somewhere around 4 or 5 a.m. Yes, that's right. This is bad. And the same thing with coffee. And there's two group of people. One is really receptive to coffee and coffee. So if I will drink a couple of espresso after 2 p.m., I will not be able to sleep well.

1:30:47And for me, again, deep sleep actually, a period starts somewhere around 4 or 5 a.m. during the night, not around the midnight. This is bad. I know a couple of friends. They can have like two espresso in the end of the dinner and they will just like almost that, you know, in a bath in the next 30 minutes. So I think there's a power of the example that we just used. And the power is like 30, 40 years ago for you to do experiment in longevity is 15 years exercise. You take a group of old people and you wait until all of them die. This is your feedback cycle 30 years ago. Okay. And what you can do in this world with 15 years feedback cycle right now, it's like that.

1:31:33It's every minute, right. With every variable you have, you get like every morning, you can look at the quality of your sleep and, and, and, you know, have very important takeaways for your lifestyle changes. So that's, that's, that's how we, both you and I discovered that, you know, both caffeine or alcohol in the form of wine or any other bad habits, It's actually in negative way influence our sleep. So that's the beauty of the feedback. Got it. I'd like that we're allowed to drink wine a few days a week and have coffee because I want to be alive 150 years or 200 years, but I also want to live.

1:32:08You know, it's not just being alive. I want to live. And wine is part of how I feel I'm living sometimes. So I feel good about that. This is the Ed Myron Show.

1:32:24We'll be right back.