The Brain-Body Discovery That Will Change Your Life Feat. Dr. Kevin Tracey

28:43And she said it wakes her up at four thirty in the morning. I said, I'm sure that I'm sure the engineers can change it to stimulate your vagus nerve later in the morning so you can sleep in. And she goes, no, no, Kevin, I don't mind. I said, why don't you mind? And she said, because I'm a teacher. And for years, I would wake up in the morning at 4.30 and with pain in my hands so severe that I would cry because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get dressed to go to work or pick up a pencil. She goes, now I wake up at 4.30 in the morning and this thing buzzes and I smile because I don't have any pain in my hands.

29:16So you were careful there. I watch you. You were careful to say rheumatoid arthritis. I'm not asking you to predict. I'm asking you your opinion. Do you think that there's implications or applications in diseases beyond arthritis? 100 % I do. I'm painting right now the fact that there's a pond covered partially in pond lilies, and we know the doubling time of the pond lilies, and we know the surface area of the pond. I think you can make very concrete predictions about a significant use for rheumatoid arthritis in the U.S. based on the current FDA approval. Because of that, it's a baby step to look at other inflammatory conditions where we already have data either in humans or in laboratory experiments.

30:03In humans, there's very convincing data. In small trials, it'll have to be repeated in larger studies for the treating Crohn's disease, inflammatory bowel disease, and ulcerative colitis. There is very compelling animal results in multiple sclerosis. And I think you're going to see Setpoint announcing, if they haven't already, clinical trials to treat multiple sclerosis. And that'll happen immediately. If it's not open now, those trials will be open soon. You're going to see news about the possibility to use various vagus nerve stimulation-based therapies to treat diabetes and potentially even metabolic syndrome or obesity.

30:45There's fascinating data about the relationship of vagus nerve stimulation to enhancing neuroplasticity, which is the phenomenon that can enhance recovery from injury and stroke. And the FDA has approved that indication already. There's fascinating data in treating depression. more more hundreds of thousands of people have already received vagus nerve stimulation therapy for treating epilepsy and depression now what's fascinating to me about depression is it works really well but only about half the time so what is it about those 50 percent of patients that get better from vagus nerve stimulation therapy versus the 50 percent that don't that has frankly slowed its use, its adoption into widespread practice.

31:32Prescribers don't like to not know the half, right? It makes sense. On the other hand, some of the responses are people who were suicidal, unable to care for their families, unable to work. And now if they're in the half that respond, they're not suicidal. They're caring for their families. They're back at work. So what is the cost benefit of that? And my question in these kinds of situations is, is it possible that the vagus nerve stimulation is reversing the inflammation that's causing the depression. So these are the kinds of questions that I guarantee you're going to see a huge amount of new work being done in the next few years.

32:09Guys, is this crazy? By the way, in a minute, we're going to talk about daily practices that you can implement that are simple to help stimulate the vagus nerve or potentially move you into parasympathetic mode here. But before I ask you that, I want to ask you, you know, your take on these devices that are available in the market. They sit on your ear. I won't name them, but I've got four of them next to my bed right now. I've tried all of them that are these devices that suggest that they can stimulate the vagus nerve by some stimulation on your ear. There's a couple that work on the neck, supposedly.

32:50What are your thoughts on those? without it. As you know, because you read the book, I have a lot of thoughts on this and some are good and some are not so good. So let's just recall what I said in the beginning. You have two vagus nerves, but you actually have 200 ,000 vagus nerves. So it's complicated. It's complicated because each and every one of those fibers, 200 ,000 fibers, was honed and perfected by millions of years of evolution to start at a particular place in your brain or body and go to a particular place in your body or brain. So it's got its own path. It's got its own route. It's got its own destination and origin, and it has its own function.

33:34So when someone says to me, I want to stimulate my vagus nerve, I say, you have 200 ,000. Which one do you want to stimulate. And what we've done with the set point device is we figured out that 400 microamps only stimulates a few hundred, maybe a couple of thousand fibers. And those happen to be the fibers that stop inflammation. So that's the good news, right? A very low amount of current driven directly placed directly on the vagus nerve can do a specific thing because it targets specific fibers. That's not true when you put electric current in your ear or on your neck. It's not possible to have the evidence in humans yet because we can't measure the vagus nerve electrical signals, which would be the ultimate proof that you've stimulated the vagus nerve unless you're putting a device on the vagus nerve.

34:23The reason people are interested in putting a device on the ear, for instance, is because there's a branch of the vagus nerve that goes to the cartilage of the ear, a small part of the cartilage, the outside of the opening to your ear. It's called the simbacaccia. Now, that's a sensory branch, which means it's carrying information about what's happening in the cartilage into the brain, into your brainstem. And it happens to go to the place where all the other incoming information goes from the vagus nerve. So that's interesting. And there's pretty good evidence from many studies that if you put a small amount of electric current using a TENS unit, transauricular epidural nerve stimulator, that you can now put people in brain scans and you can actually show that the areas of the brain that are activated by a TENS unit in your ear correspond to many of the vagus nerve centers in the brain.

35:23So far, so good. That's interesting. And then you can do clinical trials and you can study the effect of a TENS unit in the ear on all kinds of things, opioid withdrawal, migraine headaches, inflammation in various conditions, whether it's Crohn's disease, we've done that. We've done arthritis associated with lupus, or you can do blood tests and look at inflammation. And we've done that. Now, what you see in these small studies, oftentimes is some signal. You see less inflammation. That doesn't prove it's a vagus nerve stimulator. Okay. Once you drive those signals from the ear into the brain, The brain has 100 billion neurons and trillions of synapses or connections.

36:09So it can do whatever it wants with it. It doesn't mean that there's a direct path from your ear to your spleen to stop the inflammation that's headed to your intestines or your wrist. So that's where it breaks down, right? It's like correlation is not causation, right? the correlation between some clinical benefit from doing something in your ear or your neck doesn't prove that it's a vagus nerve stimulator. Putting all that aside for a second, if you can afford to buy a half a dozen devices and play with them at different times of the day and night, if you like to self-experiment, if your doctor says it can be safely done, that's all fine and good.

36:48But some people can't afford these six devices and they buy them because they're out of options and they're desperate and they're reading crap on some website selling something that's exaggerating the clinical benefit. That's where I kind of recoil a little bit. Because at the end of the day, you have to either understand the scientific mechanism of action, which I just explained is impossible or very difficult with a TENS unit in your ear, or you have to have large, well-controlled, randomized clinical trials that have been validated by the FDA. And in most cases, frankly, those things are just...

37:25So I wrote the book to explain all this, not to attack anybody, not to criticize anybody. And like you, I don't name the names of these devices because frankly, some of these non-invasive devices do have interesting clinical outcomes and clinical results. They're just not vagus nerve stimulators. The only way to stimulate the vagus nerve is to put an electrode on the vagus nerve. Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments that matter, for the moments you plan and the ones you don't. Built for the busy days that turn into all-night study sessions, the moment you're working from a cafe and realize every outlet's taken, the times you're deep into your flow, and the absolute last thing you need is an auto update throwing off your momentum.

38:05That's why Dell builds tech that adapts to the way you actually work. Built with long-lasting batteries so you're not scrambling for the closest outlet, and built-in intelligence that makes updates around your schedule, not in the middle of it. They don't build tech for tech's sake. They build it for you. Find technology built for the way you work at dell.com slash XPS. Built for you. All right, I love when you guys send messages out on social media about the show. And lately, I've been getting a few of these messages about my wardrobe. I was wearing this sweater, this tan sweater, and I kept getting all these messages from guys going, where'd you get that sweater, bro?

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39:12Go to quince.com slash ed for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com slash ed. Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash ed. I love your approach, by the way, and your demeanor. Let's talk about stuff that doesn't cost anything. That's even more interesting, right? So I'm going to throw two things at you. They're not correlated, but they're two things I do pretty regularly. By the way, one of them is really in vogue. What about prayer? These are completely disconnected things, but they both don't cost anything. Prayer, and is that a biologic tool?

40:03Is it a spiritual tool? Is it both? I'll give you these. prayer slash meditation and just cold therapy in general just speak to those and why they matter or don't for you let's do them in the opposite order if you don't mind yeah so i i am a fan of cold therapy a couple times a week i'll put the shower on full cold at the end of my normal shower and i'll stay in there for a bit and let's just talk about why i do it and and what i think's happening. What the evidence, not just what I think, what I think is based on studying the evidence. The normal caveat, please check with your doctor. There are patients who should not do this without checking with their doctor to make sure that they don't have a feigning episode or problems with their heart.

40:51But what happens when you step in that full cold shower is it hurts. It's uncomfortable. All the air goes out of your body. You feel like you can't breathe. It's terrible. And people say they enjoy it. And I have a more nuanced view of that kind of enjoyment. And I wrote about this. I see you smiling. It's really much more like I've done it for now for several years, a couple of times a week. And every time I step in that, because I step out of the hot shower, let it get cold and then step back in. And every time I step back in, half of my brain is screaming, don't do it. You fool, you fool, you fool.

41:29And then you step in and it's highly uncomfortable. And, and I'm not, I don't think you get used. I, it's not that you get, it's not that you get used to the discomfort. You're fully aware of it, but it just doesn't bother you in the same way. And the way I describe it is I feel like, boy, that person doing that cold water thing is really foolish and, and is really suffering and uncomfortable. But it's like, I'm watching that person rather than fully experience the first time you do it you fully experience it right and and i and i highly recommend the first time you do it you don't do it you don't do full cold there's no reason to get you can work up to it over a period of days or weeks now that is fight or flight you talked about it before that's fight or flight and what we've we know from i mean we've infused fight or flight hormones and in human volunteers on shore leave and we've we've studied this in animals, the acute fight or flight, which is what's happening, your heart rate races, you've got that horrible feeling you can't breathe.

42:32Those hormones turn off inflammation. So for me, check the first box. If the whole idea is to have an anti-inflammatory sort of experience, check that box. Then I stay there. Sometimes I hold my breath while I'm doing this. And I stay in the cold until, I don't know, until I feel my heart rate slow down. And at that point, I know I've stimulated the vagus nerve. I hope that the fibers to the heart are also, because I've stimulated those and my heart rate slowed, I hope I've also stimulated the fibers to slow my inflammatory response in my spleen and elsewhere. but that's a little more difficult to prove.

43:15And the studies on cold exposure, adapted cold exposure, where people, there's some studies from Scandinavia where they took soldiers, military types, and they put them in a cold room, like four degree centigrade cold room and sprayed them in cold water and put a fan on them and they let them stay there for a long, long time. Some of those studies show pretty decent evidence that their heart rates slow down and their inflammatory responses are slowed down. So that's why I do it. And that's how I put it together. The fight or flight, that acute stress response, that's a massive fight or flight response.

43:56That's anti-inflammatory. And then the cold adapted response is a vagus response and that's anti-inflammatory. But what about then the chronic stress you talked about earlier in the show in your own life and in your listeners' lives? chronic stress is not really full-blown fight or flight that we just talked about. Chronic stress is low-grade persistent fight or flight. It's not the same thing. Low-grade chronic fight or flight stimulates inflammation. And that's really important. So you can have it both ways. Fight or flight can be good for you. And that's probably what happens when you exercise.

44:37Exercise is a form of controlled good stress, controlled fight or flight. But it's that chronic gnawing away, eating at you fight or flight at low levels that actually produce inflammation. So that's why I do the cold showers. Now, there's other ways of doing it. And there's people advocating, you know, there's billions of web impressions on vagus nerve and cold, billions. And everyone's, some of them are based on good science, and some of them have to be treated with a little bit more caution in their interpretation what about prayer so prayer is complicated because it involves relaxation responses and it involves changes in your breathing and so um the simple answer is if you wanted to take it to the highest level as as you suggested in the beginning of the show if you check your pulse and you have a slow uh pulse during prayer you've maybe you've stimulated your vagus nerve by prayer, but you said, is it spiritual or not?

45:39Well, that's hard to prove, but you can prove to yourself that by changing your breathing pattern, you can slow your pulse. So you could do it right now, right? You can check your pulse and you can breathe in on three slowly through your nose. What happens when you take three sort of big breaths, three seconds, one, two, three seconds. Usually some people advocate taking it as sniffing through your nose for three seconds. You fill those lungs, you've stimulated your vagus nerve. But let's talk about that specifically. What you've actually stimulated are the sensory fibers of the vagus nerves from your lungs to your brains, because you've expanded your lungs that stretch.

46:21The signals goes up and they tell your brain, okay, this guy or gal has filled their lungs. and that so you've stimulated your vagus nerve. Is that really the same thing as as the fibers that go to your heart or your spleen? Not really. But then what happens after the signals go into your brain, now you exhale for seven seconds. And if you check your pulse, you'll feel it slow. That's called respiratory sinus arrhythmia. Now you're breathing on a 10 second cycle, three plus seven. And that would be six breaths a minute. If you keep doing that for a few minutes, you'll notice during exhalation that your heart rate has slowed because the signals from your brain are traveling down your vagus nerve to slow your heart.

47:07Now, if that happens during prayer or any type of meditation or relaxation therapy, then yeah, it's a good thing to slow the vagus nerve, to stimulate the vagus nerve and slow your heart. hopefully it that those those methods are also slowing the amount of inflammation that your body makes but it's very very difficult to prove that it's not well proved right isn't this good you guys all right a few more things and i want everybody to go get the great nerve by dr kevin tracy that's what you need to do it's i read it in two days and i wanted it to even be longer it's it's it's it's not a book that when you're done you're like yeah i went too many chapters it's You even want more.

47:51It's that good, you guys. I want to ask you about this inflammation thing, and then I want to talk about heart and brain coherence. My friend, Dr. Joe Dispenza, talks about. I want to understand this inflammation thing a little more. We're kind of going backwards, but we're not. My dad got cancer in his early 60s, and he lived for about eight years. He died in his early 70s. My dad was very fit. worked out all the time, ate clean, didn't drink for 35 years, quit smoking 40 years ago. And I was, is the idea that when you have chronic inflammation in your body, am I way off on this? My dad was a stressor.

48:38My dad worried, like just, you'd walk in a room and I love him, but he'd almost, you know, he'd sigh. I'm like, dad, what's wrong? I don't know. You know, just like that was his normal disposition. You know what I'm saying? And I would have loved to seen his HRV and his resting heart rate and all this other stuff. But is the idea that if you live in that mode, am I crazy to think that it may trigger some form of gene expression in your body prematurely? Meaning, and I know there's no proof of this. I just want your opinion. Meaning, you know, you're predisposed to get cancer. or maybe it should have been triggered in your 80s, but you've just lived in this inflammatory mode all your life.

49:18And so this expression, frankly, cranks on younger and earlier in your life than it would have otherwise. Am I out of my mind to think that there's a correlation between those things? Or what do you think? And I know you're a doctor and we need randomized, controlled, blind stuff. I get all that, but just what do you think? Well, I think that this could be the topic of another four-hour show. That's the simple answer. it's complicated because it goes both ways that's at the end of the day that's the simple answer what happens in your brain affects what happens in your body what happens in your body affects what happens in your brain so tuck that away as the answer but the second answer is it's genes and environment it's nature and nurture and you can't separate those so you uh let's do that one first so two guys are playing golf and they get hit by lightning they both get killed is that genes or environment, you tell me.

50:15Well, it's environment, right? And then I tell you it's a father-son combination, and they play golf on Friday every weekend in the summer when the lightning comes out. So now it's genes and environment, right? So the same kind of logic can be applied to everything you just said happened to your dad. So let's just, we'll play it backwards and forwards. Let's talk about the anxiety and the worry first. So obviously, it's possible that as people like to say, there's an imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain that contributing to him having annoying depression or annoying anxiety. Well, it's possible, but there's no proof of that.

51:05The most commonly used antidepressants in the world, the SSRIs, the serotonin-based drugs, there's zero evidence linking serotonin as a causative factor in depression. Zero. The only evidence for serotonin that has stood this test of time is a secondary evidence, meaning that some people who take SSRIs have less depression. That doesn't prove cause and effect because ssris do other things in the body they don't just go to the neurons in your brain that allegedly have a serotonin problem okay so we don't understand that we don't understand depression that's the point however we do know that ssris in uh in various conditions they've been studied are anti-inflammatory so now what about this scenario for your your dad your poor dad lived his whole life, maybe induced by drinking an extra pint or two along the way, or maybe because he had an underlying viral infection, but deep in his tissues, he had inflammation.

52:11And I already talked about it. The inflammation in the body sends signals up the vagus nerve, which caused depression. What if that happened to him? That's very possible. And maybe that depression altered the balance of his sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. So maybe he did have less, less breaks on his inflammatory response. And maybe that inflammation, either from the underlying cause, which we don't know what it was and never got diagnosed, or from the uncontrolled inflammation that he experienced as a result of his depression, maybe, maybe that caused his cancer. So it's, I'm not evading your question.

52:47I am, I am adding a layer of understanding that it's more complicated than these one-off things that you see so many times on these self-help pages. Look, I've met people with serious rheumatoid arthritis, and I keep talking about that because that's what the FDA label says for the new device. I've met people with serious rheumatoid arthritis who are fit, who are healthy, who work out like you do, are very aggressive and careful about what they eat and about their weight management and about their meditation strategies, and they still have severe rheumatoid arthritis. is that is that their fault that they're not exercising and no of course not it might be that the that their vagus nerve circuits are dysfunctional that they are broken and that could have been the case in your dad he may have had a perfectly healthy brain but maybe his vagus nerve got trashed along the way and and we saw that in covid i don't know if you saw this but But COVID victims were studied at autopsy in, I believe it was in Madrid, Spain.

53:50I mean, this got huge news coverage when it came out. But many of the vagus nerves in the deceased were severely injured. And many of the vagus nerves in the deceased had the virus in the nerve. And so then since then, a number of studies have looked using fMRIs and ultrasound imaging at COVID survivors who had long haul COVID or have long haul COVID, and they show evidence of damage in their vagus nerve. So now the question is, does the vagus nerve damage precede the inflammation, which precedes the problems in the cancer? So I don't have all the answers, but those are the right questions. I love when I have a doctor on the show who doesn't think he has all the answers.

54:32And I've been concerned over the last eight or 10 years when I have them on and they have every answer because now they don't have any curiosity and they're dogmatic. And so I really appreciate your approach. Is there any practice every day? By the way, you can reply to that. Is there a practice every day like you just won't skip as you answer what I just said to? I mean, please don't don't feel obligated to do that first, but go ahead. and reply to that. And then also, like, is there something daily, like, hey, this is something every day I do, period. Well, I really appreciate your comments on dogma.

55:10And there is a danger in medicine and science. And frankly, you know, whether you agree with what's going on everywhere in politics today or don't, most people have one position or the other. There is obvious to me, there is a pushback now against academic dogma as providing all the answers all the time. And And there's some of those reasons are not warranted, but some of them actually are. And I think it's really important when we don't have all the answers that we say, this is what we know for sure. This is what we are pretty sure is false. And this is what we should be studying. And as you know, I wrote the book.

55:48One of the reasons I wrote the book was to sort of have that be a message of hope and a call to action. You really I really want my colleagues to double down on some of these questions that you've raised in this podcast, because if we double down on what the questions are, then we can figure out how to find out new answers. And that's what that's what we want. Right. That's what that's what everybody that's what everybody wants. You asked about my daily habits. I mean, yes, I do. I do what what grandma said and what, you know, your doctor and what you say on the show. I try to watch what I eat.

56:22I try to eat a balanced diet. It's difficult to eat a balanced diet. I frankly find it easier to just avoid carbs and eat protein where I can get it and as many vegetables as I can. I try to exercise regularly, try to get in some different forms of exercise, some aerobic, some yoga or stretching and or stretching and some strength and isometric. I think all those are important. I think Peter Atiyah has written brilliantly about this. And I think he gives very sage, careful advice for people of all ages. I try to get enough rest. I definitely try to get my seven or eight hours sleep. I think that's really important.

57:05I don't monitor my rest with a wearable because every person I've ever met who uses a wearable to monitor their sleep wakes up to check their wearable. You're exactly right, by the way. It's also the first thing I do when I wake up. Then I pray, but not until I check my aura ring, which is insane. So I try to I try to avoid too much stress. I try to take a stoic approach and focus on the things that I can control and, you know, accept the things that I can't control. And I try to stay socially engaged with with people that I love and communities I care about. And I try to give back to the world.

57:43I mean, the classic things that, as I said, grandma and hopefully your primary care physician is teaching everybody else to do. It's interesting to me that all of those things tend to slow your heart rate. And so maybe we're slowing inflammation in the body. And at that point, it really is a Pascal's wager for me. I do the cold showers too. We talked about that. And I don't mind doing those things. They might be good for me. If I'm on my deathbed and I find out that it was no use whatsoever, well, I did my best. And if I live to be 120 and I'm healthy, well, that'll be good too, you know? I look at it like, by the way, I'm teaching myself to do hard things.

58:26At a minimum, I'm getting that benefit of building some grit. And if there's some internal benefit, which my hallucination is there probably is, then that's a bonus. But I'm doing difficult things. There's pretty good evidence for parts of the brain that light up on brain scans. Only when you do something you don't want to do that's good for you. Yeah. And so that strengthening of grit is being studied at the level of brain neurons. And that's interesting, too. And I agree with you. For me, it's stepping in that stupid cold shower. Same here, brother. That's mine. And I don't like it. And I've never adapted to it.

59:02So, by the way, guys, I don't want to lose this idea when you're getting the book. I mean, just so you know, the book is fascinating. And just realize, like, I don't want to bury the lead. I mean, he was a founder of a company that just recently is now putting chips inside of people that is stimulating the vagus nerve. And the potential for what that could mean for inflammation in the body and the reduction of disease potentially in the world is absolutely, it's massive. And you all hear about this AI revolution that's happening. This is one of the applications and implications of it. And I want to make sure the lead isn't buried.

59:38that this is a time, this man earlier in the show, and now that you've heard him, this is not a dogmatic, opinionated person, just rigid in his ideology. He said earlier in the show that he thinks the potential for electricity in the body and the stimulation of it to replace or at least reduce the need for pharmaceuticals. That's a pretty bold statement, and it's a significant time we're going to be living through. So I want to ask you one last question because I teased it earlier, and I at least want to have it there for conversation. which is this idea of heart and brain coherence. I just want you to, we'll finish with that and then I'll talk about the book for a second when we finish.

1:00:17But what is that? Dispenza talks about it, my buddy, who's been on many times. And what are the implications and why is it relevant in your opinion, if at all? It's relevant in the context of larger picture of health, which is homeostasis. So what is homeostasis? Homeostasis is a balanced functioning of your organs. So your kidneys are making the right amount of urine. Your heart's beating at the right pace to support your blood pressure. Your blood pressure is not too high, not too low. Homeostasis is when all of your organs are operating in a Goldilocks, not too much, not too little kind of output.

1:01:00That is all controlled second to second, millisecond by millisecond, actually, by reflex signals traveling in, mostly in your vagus nerve and in your sympathetic nerves. So if you think about that for a minute, it's kind of mind boggling. I mean, you can separate in various experimental models and even in some pharmacological ones, you can separate the function of sort of your thinking human brain from the brain that's operating all day long to control these reflexes. And when you look at the output of those organs, the beauty of it is that it's not railroad ties. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

1:01:44It's waves. So the harmony between the organs, if you were to measure each organ as having its own output and you do that electrically, what you see looks like a symphony, not banging a gong. In fact, if you see a banging gong, and I can direct you to a place where you can see it this afternoon, it would be in the ICU of a hospital. So when people are critically ill, say they've had sepsis for a long period of time, and they're very, very sick, their heart rate doesn't vary. It's beat, beat, beat, beat. And the outputs of the other organs doesn't vary. It beats with the heartbeat. Everything's in lockstep.

1:02:33It's almost, it's the opposite of a symphony. It's a banging of a gong. And so I don't think we fully understand what that means, but it points to the importance of synchronization, of harmony between not only the brain and the heart, but the brain and every other organ. And the heart's fun to measure because you can check your pulse and you can do an EKG and you can check your blood pressure and you can experiment on yourself and it's great. Right. But when you apply the same basic teachings to the other organs, it's fascinating. So we're in my lab now. It's the hottest project in my lab now, which we have a whole bunch of people working on it.

1:03:17And we're actually studying the flow of information that's going from the organs in the body up the vagus nerve into the brain. And we're hacking into the vagus nerve signals like submariners would hack into a transatlantic cable so they could watch a movie on the wall of the submarine by tapping into the cable. We're learning how to tap into the vagus nerve to understand what these signals mean and how they work. But the harmony is the key thing. People call the vagus nerve a superhighway. It's not. I never use that description. Traffic is boring, and the signals in the vagus nerve are much more beautiful and harmonious.

1:04:03They're like the strings of 30 violins all sort of playing in harmony, and that's what health is. You guys, this is such a great time to be alive, and we may all have a chance of living a lot healthier and a lot longer here real soon. by the way that lab is it Feinstein or Feinstein? Feinstein Institutes at Northwell Health. There you go you guys and the book everybody is for the fifth time is the great nerve by Dr. Kevin Tracy and I think you could tell today there's a lot in this book there's no wasted pages every page is interesting you're going to learn something and I know you did today guys you guys want to have them back on I can hear you yelling in your car right now yes they're on their treadmills yelling so we're going to have you back we'll take a little breather for a while, but we're going to have you back and unpack a bunch more stuff together.

1:04:52Okay. I look forward to that. And I want to thank you for your preparation and your insights to this. This has been a real pleasure talking to you. And thank you for having me on. It's been my honor, brother. All right. God bless you, everybody. Share this episode. You need to share this one. Max out your life. Take care.

1:05:11This is The Ed Myron Show.

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