The Conversations That Shaped a Year

28:42And he's right. You're not supposed to just grind your teeth through your entire freaking life as you acquire, accumulate and conquer. There's a way to do both. You're not going to enjoy every moment because if you enjoyed every moment, you're really not enjoying any moment because there should be contrast to life. There is no fellowship without energy. There is no love without energy. These things ride on the back of the energy that you bring. There's that brotherhood and a deeper fellowship because of the energy. And I think that's what's important. That's what's going to define the future. So good, brother.

29:20For me, time is the most important currency at this stage of my life. You can actually measure time in the amount of moments, the amount of experiences that you have, people that you care about. That moment that you're referencing, which I opened the book with, was a conversation that I had with an old friend in May of 2021. At the time, I had spent the first seven years of my career marching down the most traditional path towards a quote unquote successful life. I was chasing all of the things that everyone tells you you should want to chase, the status, the things, and I was getting them. I was actually winning that game, if you will.

29:55But unfortunately, along that path, all these other things in my life had started to suffer. My relationships had started to show cracks. My parents, I was not seeing at all. My relationship with my sister, unfortunately, had ground to a halt. I was drinking six, seven nights a week. I had gotten so narrowly focused on the one thing of making money, of accumulating status, as the path to me feeling successful, to me feeling happy. And that all came to a head for me in May of 2021. I went out for a drink with this old friend. It had started to get difficult living so far away from my parents who were on the East Coast.

30:29We were living in California, 3 ,000 miles away, and they were getting older. It was the first time in my life as a young person that I had started to notice them slowing down. Their health wasn't perfect anymore. And he asked how old they were. And I said mid-60s. And he asked how often I saw them. And I said once a year at that point. And he just looked at me and said, okay, so you're going to see your parents 15 more times before they die. It hit me like a ton of bricks. The idea that the amount of time you have left with the people you care about most in the world is that finite and countable.

31:02You can literally put it onto a few hands. That just shook me to the core. And in that moment, I realized that if something didn't change, we were going to end up in a place where we didn't want to be. You are actually much more in control of your time than you think. We had taken an action, done one thing, and that number, 15, had turned into the hundreds. My parents are a huge part of my son, their grandson's life now. I see them multiple times a month. So we had taken an action and actually created time. And that realization, you just start living differently when you realize that you are in more control of your time.

31:39You are not a passive taker of time. You can actually go and make it. So what would you say to somebody who's listening to this? They haven't amassed wealth. They haven't amassed career accolades. They haven't created something. And they have this desire to do it. But now, having heard you, they're afraid it's going to cost them their family. There are a lot of people out there who, by traditional measures of wealth, money, have been told that they are not doing so well. And in a more comprehensive definition, I would argue that they are really doing great in life. Take a bigger picture look at your life.

32:12Don't allow the world to tell you how you're doing. You get to decide. You get to run your own race in life. You don't have to compare yourself to everyone else's race. That's the first thing. The second thing I would say is that your life has seasons. And what you prioritize or focus on during any one season can and should change. You may have a season when you really want to lean into building financial wealth, building that foundation. And during that season, it's okay for that to be all the way turned up. But these other areas, importantly, have to exist on dimmer switches, not on-off switches.

32:47The traditional wisdom has told you that if you're going to focus on one thing, everything else gets shut off. And that is a terrible way to live because for a lot of these areas, if you leave the light switch turned off for too long, you can never turn it back on. The word later just becomes another word for never because those things won't exist in the same way later. Your kids are not going to be five years old later. Your partner won't be there for you later if you aren't there for them now. Your health won't magically be there later. You won't wake up with freedom and purpose later. You either design those things into your life in some tiny way now, or you end up regretting it later.

33:25The last thing. For all the Ulf's on Wall Street and Torben Geckos out there. For all the people who have bloodshed, that's for you. Until the 28th of February, the depot will open and we'll take your first order provision to 500€. FlatEx, better to deal with right. Investing has a risk of loss. The conditions are valid. Excerne costs fall on. What I'll say to this is, in all of these areas of life, The reason the idea of a dimmer switch is so important is because anything above zero compounds, anything above zero compounds in your life, the point is you don't want it to be off. Off atrophies, and you're going to that world of never.

34:04But if you do a tiny daily action in these other areas, you can stack and compound wins. But we, self-improvement-focused people, ambitious people, allow optimal to get in the way of beneficial. So we say, I don't have an hour to work out, so I'm just not going to work out today. I don't have two hours for deep work, so I'm going to do emails today instead of working. And that is the worst mentality you can have because, again, the five-minute walk is better than nothing. The 10 minutes of deep work on the one focus project is better than nothing. Anything above zero compounds. I really think that the single most important thing that people can do to build their mental wealth think day, which is once a month, get out of your normal headspace.

34:46Don't go to your office or your house. Go to a new coffee shop. Go outside. Do something. Take an hour and just go with a handful of question prompts that force you to zoom out on your life. If you were the main character in a movie of your life, what would the audience be screaming at you to do right now? Think about it. You are that main character in the movie of your life right now. And there is something blindingly obvious from the outside looking in that you are either choosing to ignore or that you have yet to create the perspective to actually see in your life. So what is it? It's very difficult to make life-altering decisions in your current environment and space that is facilitating and supporting that current lifestyle and way of thinking.

35:32You agree with that? People underestimate how much environment impacts thought patterns. When you are in a familiar environment, you are going to have familiar thought patterns. You are going to just find evidence that confirms the current story you are telling yourself. Is there something tactically you do in your schedule? The reality is we make time and we create energy for the things we truly care about, but you have to actually structure them into your life. I've seen evidence over and over again in my own life and in the lives of some of the highest performers I've spent time with that outcomes follow energy.

36:02When you lean into the things that create energy in your life, you generate the 10 ,000 ,000 X outcomes that create the step function changes in your life. That applies personally and professionally. What is this ABC formula? I know what it is, but I want you to explain to them. And why is it so important to intentionally create this new habit? Very few people tell you how to be consistent. They just tell you that it's important. And the ABC system is a pathway to actually being consistent because it relies on the idea that I said earlier, which is that anything above zero compounds, you need to hold yourself to the fire in the act, but give yourself grace in the amount.

36:42So for any given system that you're trying to build, any given new habit, set an A goal, a B goal, and a C goal, and then hit one of those levels every single day. When you feel great, hit the A goal. When you feel okay, hit the B goal. And when all hell breaks loose, just hit the C goal because anything above zero compounds. Reminds me of the dimmer effect. Keep the dimmer on. I fundamentally believe that the concept of balance has been hijacked. You've been told that balance is about having a perfect blend on a daily basis of life and health and relaxation and work and that if your days don't look perfectly balanced, you're all screwed up and you need to get stressed and anxious about the fact that you're unbalanced.

37:20The reality is that balance is much more about the seasons than the days. You are going to have seasons of unbalance that are in service of a future season of balance. You actually had the courage to make a decision to go, that is no longer my dream. Is there anything, is it this Razor's concept that you would impart to somebody in addition to what we've talked about where they go, it's okay to not continue to chase this thing that doesn't fulfill you anymore? What we're talking about here is fundamentally the Pyrrhic victory, which is the idea of the victory that comes at such a steep cost to the victor that it might as well been a defeat.

37:57You have to ask yourself in your own life, is that actually a game that I care to win? Or is the game that I care to win, the mountain that I care to climb, completely different than what I've been told is the successful mountain? Speed obsessed culture and society. Everything is about how fast can you go from here to here. And as you get older and as you zoom out on your life, you recognize that life is much more about direction than speed. It's so much more important to climb slowly up the right mountain than to climb fast up the wrong one. Over and over, we see people make that mistake. When you measure the right things, you can start taking the right actions.

38:36You make decisions in line with that bigger picture measurement so you can win the battle. You can make money. You can do well. You can achieve your ambitions, but you can also make sure you're winning the bigger picture war. All of the things that are read about me when I get introduced to speak are all things that I thought I wanted when I was younger. And now when there read, they're meaningless to me and almost embarrassing. Flash forward 25 years from now, and they're reading your bio out, and you've achieved these things you think you want right now. I can tell you from personal experience, the best thing you could say when you introduce me is this is a good man of faith, a good dad, a good brother, a good husband, a good person, a good friend.

39:16So what about that with involving family in these decisions in your work? I think it's so important to have your family be a part of the mission that you are on. And what I think is so important there is this realization I've had that strong relationships are built on two pillars, high expectations and high support. High expectations is to say, I have very high expectations for the level at which you can perform, but also high support, meaning I am willing to lift you up on my shoulders to go and meet those expectations. High expectations without high support manifests as resentment. But when the two come together in concert, it creates the most incredible bonds in life.

39:57What would your dad tell me about you? I think my dad would tell you that he is proud that I am becoming the man that I want to be. The man that I want to be. Not the man that he wants me to be, but the man that I want to be. So what about the importance of the financial piece of it? And what would you just speak to that. I very explicitly in the book wanted to avoid this coming off as saying money is nothing. Money isn't nothing. It simply can't be the only thing. Above that level, money needs to become a tool, not the goal. My mental model for thinking about that fundamentally comes down to something very simple, which is making money has been overcomplicated.

40:39The way you make money is by creating value for other people. You shouldn't say, I want to get rich in the next year. You should say, I want to create an enormous amount of value for other people in the next year. And as a result of that, you will make money. I guarantee it. I was in my office and I was working on something for this book launch. So focused, really locked in. And my son, two and a half year old, barges in through my office door and just starts knocking things over, terrorizing my office, two and a half year old. And I started having this whole train of thought, very negative, complaining, why is he in here?

41:10Why is he doing this? Doesn't he see I'm working? Doesn't he know that I'm trying to focus. And in that moment, I paused and I snapped myself back to five years ago when my wife and I were struggling to conceive for two years. I had prayed every single night that we would one day have a healthy child and complaining about the exact thing that I had prayed for. Sometimes in life, the things you pray for become the things that you complain about if you let them. If you don't force yourself to pause, to stop, to recognize that sometimes you are quite literally living out your prayers. You finished with me on that one, bro.

41:50That's the best story of the entire interview. You sold companies worth how much? Over a hundred million, you think? Last company I sold for 235 million. That's all? That's it. I mean, what are you going to do? Playing small ball. So you got a big, busy life. Why would you step in and start writing books and telling people how to do all this stuff? Why did you decide to do that? I mean, to be honest, it's actually probably because of my four kids. I think that in today's world, we're taught that we want to be perfect and we want to do everything right. I actually built my entire career on all of the mistakes I made.

42:24So what was the hardest part, do you think? It's the sleepless nights. It's what nobody sees behind the scenes. It's when I'm exhausted. I've done 16 hour days. You run up, you can't make payroll. It's when something terrible happens in the company and you think this is it and you're just there alone. Yeah. I mean, it's the worst. That is what it feels like. You feel alone a lot. Alone. Yes. Yeah. You do. Even when you have people working with you, cause as the leader, you carry the emotional burden of the company. Yeah. And entrepreneurship you think is hard but you never expect it to be that lonely but now your life was it worth it oh 100 right oh yes if i could tell my younger self how great my life would turn out i wouldn't have believed it to be honest what's the best part the freedom freedom to do whatever i want at whatever time to invest in new entrepreneurs to inspire other people to live the life of their dreams and not having to worry so much about little things i think being wealthy may be slightly overrated but i think being broke and poor which we've both been is way harder than than even you think when you're young i think when i was young and first starting out i was waiting to feel 100 ready yeah i think everyone does and people listening right now they're waiting to feel that they've got the perfect website they got the perfect pitch they got the perfect social media once you realize it will never be perfect and just having the courage to take action is the key to success i think anyone out there is thinking i have a secure job you don't right like you just don't the only thing that's secure is whatever you can create originally i just thought if i could just make a million dollars yeah me too like i had just one million i will call it a day and live my life on the beach in hawaii exactly what i thought what you realize is and even now because i'm starting new companies all the time i love the love of the game there you go i know it's so much fun to play yeah i'm actually a fear-based entrepreneur like i think i've done i've spent more of my life moving away from what i didn't want sometimes like i was afraid to be broke i was afraid of not being able to eat your fear was like a paralyzing fear yeah well fear where you just can't even move right you had that really yes think that if you have something so traumatic happen where you are lose your job or lose your you know your security or your identity you're so afraid to make the same mistake yeah and so overcoming that and understanding that mistakes are essential to success and if you don't try like that's the only real failure was there a massive failure at one point where you're like this is a biggie and I think this just did me in.

45:14Was there any moments like that in your career? Oh my gosh. I mean, listen, I've had so many failures at this point. Looking back, I think the first company that I'd worked for that failed and I had called all my friends to come work for me because I told them they were going to be dot-com millionaires. Yeah. And then I had to fire them all and many wouldn't talk to me. That hurt. I even think long-term planning may be a bizarre concept nowadays because of the way the world's turning. and you say one of your mistakes was not pivoting enough soon enough like which one was it i think not pivoting fast enough i've invested in probably 150 companies 99 of them have pivoted at least once if not more right in the world of ai right now if we were going to teach our children something or any entrepreneur listening to this the adaptability flexibility we don't know what's going to happen.

46:07The world's going to move twice as fast, but your mental state of being able to adapt, be flexible, change with the environment will be the key to your success. You better be flexible. You better be pivoting. You better know what's going on. You better be fluid. And if you run a company with a bunch of bureaucracy that can't make decisions pretty quickly, like a small company, you're in big trouble in business. If you're a small company, The great news is you can be nimble. The challenge is, do you have the mindset to be nimble? You're right. And to embrace technology because a lot of people out there, oh, AI, like guys, it's here, it's coming, and we need to embrace it as part of your business.

46:49Everyone listening should ask themselves, when was the last time I pivoted? And if you can't think of it, that's a problem. So you can do a market pivot. You could do a product pivot. You could do a pricing pivot. And then you could do a competitor pivot. Every single company out there, they're pivoting quickly. It's speed that makes a huge difference too. If it doesn't work, pivot again. What would you say to somebody who's listening? They're like, I do have this perfect addiction. If they're trying to achieve perfection, they will not achieve greatness. So the only way to become very successful is to embrace the mistakes.

47:26I'm a 20-year tech entrepreneur. Now I'm in beauty. I'm in beverage. I'm in web three. I am all over the map learning new industries as fast as I can because it makes me a better, more rounded, intelligent investor as well as operator. How many years did you spend struggling as an entrepreneur just first, would you say? I would say I spent first three years at my kitchen table alone where literally every person thought I was nuts. Okay. Would you sit wherever you are, your basement, your kitchen table for three years? without any hope or sign that it's going to work out. There's no indication you're right.

48:00No indication that it's going to work. Isn't that the big thing? Your belief has to be greater than everyone else's doubt in you. Oh, that's good. It has to be because the critics, the naysayers, I mean, the dream killers, they're going to come and tell you why your idea won't work. And you have to be willing to say and have the conviction why it will. It's hard, right? And it's hard. It's hard. I think business is the most competitive, difficult sport in the world. I really do. Because what separates you isn't giftedness. Like if you're 6 '9 and you can 360 windmill dunk, you could play defensive end in the NFL.

48:36I guess that's a little tall. But you know what I'm saying? Yeah. But in business, it's not really necessarily birth talent oriented. It's a 365-day sport. There's no off-season for business. It's an every day, 24-7. If you want to be average, do what average people do. If you want to be successful, do what successful people do. And they're out there hustling. I love your intensity. No one sees how hard you worked for so long. I mean, this is a 20-year overnight success, right? And I think that's really important. So if you're willing to pay the price, which is a lot of missed everything, then it's worth it.

49:14At the end, my life is incredible. I feel incredibly blessed. but that came with a lot of, you know, a lot of cost and like costs you can't see, costs that I'm sure so many women right now are going through in terms of just trying to balance it all. And I think just recognizing that's really important. So it's really important for any entrepreneur out there. If you like the problem you're solving and you like who you're solving it with, and if you say no to one of those two questions, do something else. It's outstanding. I'd say if I can do it, you can do it too. And I think having been there at my kitchen table with no sign or no hope and at rock bottom, I have no money.

49:56I maxed out all my credit cards, took a loan from my grandma and everyone thinks I'm crazy. Okay. Yes. But fast forward, I've had multiple exits and I was able to make that dream a reality. But I think, again, it goes back to also adapting with the market. Don't just be so, be clear on where you're going, but how you get from A to Z could look totally different from where you are today. And so I think it's really important. Z, I know where I'm going, Z. I have no idea. A, B could go E, G. You know what I'm saying? Like be flexible. It takes one person to make a bet on you. So you can just be that one person to change like that domino effect.

50:35This has been so good. So good. You say anxiety is really overestimating the threat. And I think you said underestimating your ability to deal with it. Just let that settle for a second and then I'll let you elaborate. Yeah, definitely. A lot of this has to do with our capacity. We are tea bags. We don't know how strong we are until we're in hot water. As we get older, we constantly facilitate a life where we want things to be as easy as possible. Conveniences, you know, have food delivered to us, everything on an app on our phone. and we don't realize that comes at the expense of our resilience.

51:08And as the resilience goes down, we don't think we can handle things. And then things in life happen, aka 2020, and all of a sudden everything that we thought was going to be one way is definitely not. And then we get a chance to see how resilient and how strong we can actually be. And what we're doing is we're overestimating these dangers and we're underestimating our ability to deal with it. It's because the signal that we're getting is everything is dangerous, But the definition of danger to our survival brain is like, is it new? Does it remind me of something that hurt me in the past? Is it unfamiliar?

51:39Is it just going to be hard work? It's amazing that we're having mental health conversations, but we've swung the pendulum so far the other way that now mental health has become this excuse to avoid hard things. It's an excuse to avoid hard people. We treat our mental health like it's this delicate flower that we have to protect it. And it's like, no, our mental health is like our physical health. It is here to protect us. our peace is a muscle our peace doesn't need to be protected from other people and our resilience is us training our mental health so we can deal with the bs that's definitely going to find us in the outside world that's an interesting perspective because you're right that's actually preparation and training to make you more resilient towards anxiety in the future absolutely so instead of just dismissing oh that person is a narcissist i gotta stay away from them this person is toxic because what we might be saying is this person is challenging the way I communicate, the way I live, the way I exist.

52:33So I need to step up my game. I need to be uncomfortable. We have to do hard things on purpose to get stronger, both physically and mentally. You really can't think your way out of anxiety. You have to physically take action. I think when anxiety strikes most people, at least like me, I just start thought looping. But that just elevates the level of stress and anxiety in my body I think actually harms my ability to deal with it. So overthinking is believing your intuition doesn't work. And a situation happens, your intuition is whispering to you what you need to do. Most likely it's going to be hard.

53:05So then your brain is like, oh, this is uncomfortable. So let me create this thought loop, which will trick me into thinking that I'm solving a problem when I'm really doing nothing. Because one thing that we don't enjoy is uncertainty. It's a protective mechanism that we have because when we have these anxious feelings we want to soothe them and generally the three ways that we soothe our anxious feelings is through distracting medicating or avoiding this is our body trying to protect us because our body is responsible for protecting us but it's not responsible for figuring out what the danger is so what happens is a new situation happens our body is told you're in danger and it goes into protection mode what we have to do is to work to train the body like this doesn't count as danger the body has to catch up to the brain the only way to address that is to keep doing it this is how acting through anxiety works it's not you got to act through it once if you don't go to the gym after for two years the atrophy builds you got to get back into the swing of things and when it comes to this the overthinking is our brain's way of tricking us and tricking itself to think oh we're solving this problem by constantly revisiting it and creating new problems.

54:18A great definition of anxiety is anxiety is when your intelligence is growing faster than your courage. Instead of using the imagination for curiosity, which is courage in disguise, it uses the imagination for judgment. Oh, that might go wrong. That might go wrong. This is the reason not to do it. And that's exactly what we do, especially as adults. Overachievers probably have this proclivity more than maybe even everybody else. What's a thing you've been doing for yourself, an actual tactic you've been using to like, okay, here's how I'm going to deal with this right now. Instead of saying, I'm anxious, say, I feel anxious because, and then finish that sentence.

54:55And we start labeling these things, not realizing that these labels or these diagnoses are the beginning of the journey, not the ending. And it's this idea that our identity and our value is based on this external thing. And that's the first thing that we have to address, that I am not my achievements. Most of the people that actually matter in my life don't care about my achievements at all. You may have to put that in your hyper-organized schedule, an hour of doing nothing, and maybe remind yourself, I'm a human being. I'm not a human doing. I'm just here to be. We forgot that life is trial and error.

55:30Error is not failure. And my happiest moments is when I get to be present where I am. And all I'm encouraging is to say, hey, I know you want to feel better. A lot of the ways that we're currently feeling better are just temporary. We're just hitting snooze on the alarm. Let's go ahead and permanently address the things that are making us feel uncomfortable so we don't have to revisit those anymore. And instead, we can revisit the next thing. I'm not here to promise you a life without anxiety. I'm here to promise you a relationship, a better relationship with your emotions, anxiety being the most misunderstood one.

56:05I think for a lot of people listening to this. Social media has flipped a little bit from being this place of information and inspiration to it's just a lot that creates this wrong feeling in your body. So what would you say about that? Get off of it or no, because the premise of the book is reframe it. Throw your phone in the pool, throw it in the ocean with everything, not just social media. Everything is a great idea and tell us not. As I said, judgment is the language of fear. There's no safe space for empathy and nuance on social media people are fighting for attention the way to best get attention is to say polarizing things say violent things just say things that will get a knee-jerk reaction it really is a slot machine where you're just continually pulling it and it's also the exact same formula of an abusive relationship if anybody ever wants to know why someone goes back to an abuser ask yourself why you keep going back to your phone because it sucks most of the time but when it's good, it's so good.

57:00Golly. And you don't know when it's going to be good. And us as a species, we love unanticipated rewards, just like slot machines, just like abusive relationships, just like our phone. The truth of the matter is it soothes anxious feelings temporary. Again, it hits the snooze button on it, but with every addiction, you can't get enough of it and it almost works. If you feel despair, you kind of correlate despair to the belief that you've run out of options which you and i both believe is a lie it's not i will take away your anxiety because you don't want me to take away your anxiety anxiety is a superpower when used right i will take away your despair around anxiety and i'm defining despair as feeling hopeless because you don't have options and it's like well here i'm about to give you 50 extra options and that's what's important here despair is a lack of options there always are more options and the first step is to talk to people and ask what are my even go on chat gpt if you have to and just be like hey this is what i'm dealing with what are my options because what chat gpt and ai is doing is filling in the gap that happened again with this pendulum swing where now wow wow the business model of our therapists our physical therapists Their business model requires them to listen and just listen.

58:19Meanwhile, our friends don't listen and just keep offering solutions. So now you go to a friend with your problem. Your friend is not qualified, but they care about you. We always want to make the right decision. You pretty much throughout, and you said it as a question, like what if any decision you make was right? Don't worry about making the right decision. Worry about making the decision right. Bam. And that gives you so much more control, which is like, look, we're here. Ray Dalio always says it's not your 10 ,000 hours that makes you a master it's your 10 ,000 trial and errors and we are so afraid of the errors but the errors are what paves our successes look what if they're all right and you start to realize they are all right because we have the ability to make them right and this goes back to the overthinking overthinking is believing our intuition doesn't work because we're assuming we own a crystal ball and we just know what's going to happen and it's like listen you live with yourself you are your best friend your intuition does not have to be perfect but know what's on your team trust it follow it because you're strengthening a relationship with yourself which is the most important relationship you'll ever have every single person listening to the show is that some form of fear of missing out on something and that creates a ton of anxiety it creates it definitely does create a lot of anxiety and i call it you know trying to go from fomo to jomo yes the fear of missing out to the joy of missing out we can't train ourselves out of it we can't we can only recognize it and one of the best ways i believe that we can address some of this FOMO is to go deep into figuring out our values.

59:48So often we're spending so much time because we combine this anxious feelings around FOMO with our anxious feelings to fit in. So now we're trying to, we're putting ourselves in places that we don't even belong just because we don't want to feel left out. And then that's where we start getting these concepts like social anxiety. Everybody is a social butterfly if they're in the right garden. Going back to this idea of self-awareness, what you're asking to do is observe yourself. That's also my definition of surrender. I'm saying just take a step back and watch what's happening. Not with judgment, with curiosity.

1:00:24I was going to say this, curiosity is courage in disguise. Judgment is the language of fear. You can't be curious and judgmental at the same time. So just observe these things as they come. reinforce the triggers that make you feel great and address and face the triggers that don't make you feel so good because they're teaching you about yourself we prepare ourselves for challenges we're better equipped when challenges find us so definitely lean into your positive triggers definitely face the negative triggers when you're in a good place feeling anxious isn't a weakness we're not here to fix anxiety because we're not broken we are all dealing with this we all have anxious feelings towards what we don't know is going to happen tomorrow.

1:01:07So the antidote for a lot of the anxious feelings that we have is our unity. Real connection requires vulnerability. If you need something, you need it. And if you're not getting it and you're expressing that somebody is dismissing you as needy, that's not the person you got to be around. Anxiety is not a condition that people need to solve. It's a normal signal in our body like hunger. Anxiety is a signal letting us know and what we want to do is we want to improve our relationship and especially if you have someone that you care about that you feel is struggling in this department doing it together that will by default add so many more options and you guys are sharing your earned wisdom remarkable conversation today everyone hope you get it and i hope you share this episode god bless you max out your life