The Hidden Epidemic of High-Functioning Depression with Dr. Judith Joseph

26:47You know, I'll give an example of brushing my daughter's hair. If I'm brushing it and like she's like, oh, that hurts. Then I'm like, wait, I'm doing this quickly because I was over scheduled and what I should have done was not over schedule myself. So the next day, what I'm going to do is plan more time so that when I'm brushing her hair, she sees that I'm taking my time so that she honors her body because she's only going to get one body. And when I apply lotion to myself, these small acts, I try to do it slowly. And I'm sending the message to myself that my body is worthy of care and being gentle.

27:22And doing these small things sends the inner dialogue to yourself that you can slow down. Nothing bad's going to happen if you don't rush through these moments. So it doesn't have to be grand. You know, make it a point that, let's say, if you have a meeting later today with your colleagues, when you're going to meet with them, you're not going to rush in and out. You're actually going to spend time discussing them, checking in on them, having a meaningful interaction with them. If what you value is kindness, then you're going to say, at least for one person today, I'm going to hold the door for them.

27:58I'm going to just ask the doorman or the person at the cashier how they're doing. I'm going to check in with them. Find out what you value in life. If it's nature, you're going to, you know, if you're driving, you're going to take your car through, you know, a park or just take a walk in the park if you're in a big city. But do something every day to honor your values and tap into it. So you're going to, one, validate how you feel. Oh, I'm feeling hungry. All right. I'm going to make a break. I'm going to go and get something to eat, savor it, take my time. There are little things you can do to be a human being instead of a human doing.

28:35And if you slowly do those things, it doesn't have to be grand. You don't have to do all five Vs a day. Tap into one or two a day. Then over time, you will be happier. It's all about collecting the points. One of the things for me, I'm loving a conversation. It's a simple thing. And it is, you've used the word probably five times so far. It's just slow down. it's literally for most things for me, my trigger to bliss is just slow down. I talk fast. I eat fast. I drive fast. It's everything is a race almost with me and it's become something I win most of the time. No one else at the table is aware we're racing to eat this food.

29:17They're trying to enjoy theirs and I'm in the biggest hurry in the world. I tell you an interesting story and then I'll ask you a question about one of your techniques. I was just in Hawaii. I had to go over and speak. I'm going to, I've been, I'm going to be there twice in the next three weeks. And I get over there and I'm alone on this trip. And I'm like, I, if I can't relax and enjoy myself in Hawaii, find some joy here, there's a real problem. And where I was speaking every, you know, most people in that hotel knew me. So it was difficult to get any quiet time. If I went out of my room because I, you know, people, they were there to attend an event.

29:48I was speaking at, I thought, you know what, I'm going to get a massage. There's a 60 minute and an 80 minute. and I go, I'm going to do the 80 minute. And even in a massage, I'm like 15 minutes into this massage. I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's 65 more minutes left in this thing. And I'm literally not enjoying the massage because I'm in a race for the massage to end, right? It's that crazy. And so in my own case, I actually went back three days later when I left, I'm like, I'm going to get another one and I'm actually going to slow down and enjoy this. And so one of the things you teach in the book, I think everyone's going to take this right now and go, I'm going to do it, is your 5-4-3-2-1 technique, which is not really correlated to what I'm saying, but I wanted to just make the point of pacing and breathing and slowing down.

30:34Very rarely is joy and bliss in moments of hurried. They're just not going to be present at the same time. So do you agree with that? And then tell them your technique because it's awesome. Well, the busying yourself is a trauma response. And I'm going to say that again, because I don't think people correlate the two. Busying is a trauma response. I do this, I've conducted several PTSD studies, and there's an assessment called the CAPS-5. It's validated by the VA hospital, typically used in combat veterans, but now it's been applied to clinical research. One of the symptoms of trauma is avoidance.

31:13And when you think of avoidance in the classic PTSD sense, it's avoiding things that trigger you like people, places, or situations. And avoidance in the form of busying is a trauma response. So you're over committing yourself. You're too busy to acknowledge the pain. And I think that needs to hit home. And that's why I applied the 5-4-3-2-1 method to high functioning depression, because the 5-4-3-2-1 method is a trauma method that allows people to ground. when you think of how you're busy, it's a way to avoid feeling that pain. And many people will say, 2020 was a blur, or my childhood was a blur.

31:56Well, the reason it's a blur is because your brain was trying to block memories that were painful. And that helps in the short term, but in the long term, it doesn't because you continue to avoid. And then the trauma peaks out in different ways. And 5-4-3-2-1 allows you to stay in the present, to ground you so that you're not floating outside a situation or floating outside your body, which is called disassociation. And that's that feeling of like, I don't remember what happened or it was a blur. It's because you were disassociating, right? So if you want to practice 5-4-3-2-1, I do this every morning.

32:31It takes me like one to two minutes, but you can do it longer. Imagine one thing that you do. So it could be your coffee and you focus on that one thing. And I have my coffee mug here. And so you're holding your coffee or your tea or whatever it is that you drink, even water, and you want to stay in the moment. So you're going to think about five things you can see. And so it could be describing what the mug looks like, your hands, you know, four things you can feel. and it could be, you know, feeling the temperature or the mug or like, you know, what you're wearing or the chair that you're in.

33:15Three things that you can hear. And so sometimes you can hear the noises, the music or like the environment, the nature, the breeze. Two things you can smell. So you just like smell the aroma or like even what you're wearing, the fragrance you're wearing or candle and then one thing you can taste so you can taste it and then you know what does it feel like going down what does it taste like in terms of the fav the flavors but if you're doing that i'm not thinking about you know my dry cleaning i'm not thinking about the meeting i have in two hours i'm so present and i described that probably under 60 seconds but if you practice a little bit of that every day and you're staying present in the moment you're grounding yourself in the situation, then you're going to calm your fight or flight.

34:05You're going to notice that you're not as tense. You're not going to be distracted. And that act brings you into a better state so that you can slow down. And anyone can do the 5-4-3-2-1 method with any activity that you want to be present in. That's outstanding. And I'm going to do that. That's like really, really, really good way to become present. It's simple. It's easy to remember. It's something you can do in a, again, me always in a big hurry that you can do in a short window of time. That's really, really good. This episode is brought to you by Marshalls, where you never have to compromise between quality and price.

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35:02When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp. The secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. It sounds to me like a lot of high-functioning depression is more than likely, I'm over-summarizing, coming from some type of trauma somewhere. Is that safe to say, what I just said? Is that safe to say?

35:43It is. You know, I'm the only person who's done a peer-reviewed clinical study that was published in high-functioning depression. We still need more data. But I felt like we needed to have something to validate how people felt. You know, if it's not published or if it's not studied, then you're really going based off of like anecdote. So it was important for me to use my lab to do that. And I'm proud of that work. And I hope to do many more. And I hope other people start doing studies as well. Thank you. Well, you know, people run from things that are painful. And according to the DSM-5, a trauma to meet criteria for PTSD is typically combat or assault or, you know, something near death that you either experienced or you witnessed.

36:24However, you know, people come in all the time with traumas that are little t traumas, like a bankruptcy or a toxic relationship. You know, I'll tell them that according to DSM-5, you don't meet criteria for this, but I believe you because there are things that are emotionally and psychologically painful that shape how we view ourselves in the world and how we behave in the world. And so I created a more extensive trauma inventory to include things like that, that you won't find in the DSM-5 because I truly do believe that these little t traumas shape us. You know, having a parent who was neglectful, having a parent who yelled at times, who you were worried about, that is, try telling someone that that's not traumatizing.

37:04It is painful and it shapes you. So I wanted to acknowledge things like that. You know, having a business and going through bankruptcy, that is painful. That shapes the way that you interact in the world. And I included those experiences, including collective traumas like pandemics and, you know, things that happen to groups of people, generational traumas, because that does shape us. It changes how we view ourselves in the world and how we interact in the world. I want to ask you about one type of trauma next, but I want to say one thing to everybody on trauma, even in my own work with coaching people over the years, you call it a little T trauma, but you can, you begin to collect them in your life and they can stack.

37:45And I'll tell you all, I'm going to give you all a word that maybe you would replace with trauma, which is disappointment. And the longer you live, you do begin to potentially collect disappointments. And this is a form of trauma in your system. So it may not be the same as your dad yelling at you or being physically struck or, but it's, it's trauma. It's a disappointment of the love of your life left disappointment of a promotion you didn't get, the disappointment of you did get the promotion and it didn't make you feel the way you thought, a bankruptcy, the ending of any type of a relationship.

38:21It could even be the expectation of walking in a room and being received a particular way that you think you look great that night and no one notices you or someone puts you down subtly or it's a crabby boss, or a passive aggressive friend. You collect these disappointments and that begins to become a trauma in your life. And I think it can dull these responses to be able to produce joy in your life. And all of a sudden you're high functioning depressed. So I just want everyone to evaluate this. This isn't a weakness. This isn't some, you know, way, whatever your political spectrum is, you know, Oh, safe spaces.

38:59That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about living as a human being. These are real things. And many of you right now, listening to us, you are high functioning, maybe you wouldn't use the word joy, depression, but you're lacking the joy you deserve. And that's high functioning depression. And so what is, here's a form of trauma that I want to ask you about because it's in the book, but I want them to hear it. What is scarcity trauma? I'm so glad you brought that up. Scarcity trauma is something that I, I'm a board service psychiatrist and researcher, and I didn't even realize how much it shaped my behaviors and how I saw myself in the world.

39:38The interesting thing about trauma that most people don't know is that trauma makes you feel unworthy. It increases self-blame. It's actually on that combat veteran checklist I told you about, the CAPS-5, so that when you don't know that these are trauma responses, you don't realize your behaviors are shaped from feeling unworthy and internalizing shame and blame. And scarcity trauma happens when you either come from a position of not having resources, money, food, water, shelter, personally, or your ancestors didn't have it and they've passed these behaviors onto you. So think about people whose ancestors have fled war and they don't realize that these behaviors of not taking risks, not investing in themselves, hoarding their money, hoarding food that is expired, having bags under their sink that they just can't get rid of.

40:38They don't realize that the clutter is related to this scarcity trauma of running out of things and being afraid of losing it all again. And for me, I experienced it. I came to this country when I was very small from Trinidad. And there were times when we didn't have resources. We didn't have food. And I ended up being valedictorian. So I approached scarcity in this way, which I didn't realize until adulthood and well beyond my training, was that I would hoard my degree. So I would be like, well, an MD isn't enough. I got to get an MBA. And one residency training isn't enough. I got to get a fellowship.

41:13And then, well, I can't just have a lab. I also have to have a private practice and I also have to have all these things. So I was overdoing so that I wouldn't be in a position of needing again, even though it was illogical. And I am a board certified psychiatrist. I didn't even put this together until well into my research. So you can have these behaviors that are rooted in scarcity trauma and you're not even aware that they're related to how your parents are raised or your grandparents are raised or how you have gone through positions of not having enough. And I see this in farmers, right? People who've come from long generations of farmers, where farmers don't know when they're going to have their next crop.

41:50So they store, and they're constantly thinking about saving. And the weather can be unpredictable. And then you pass the scarcity trauma onto your children, your grandchildren, and they don't even realize they're not taking risks in life. And they're having these behaviors out of a fear of scarcity. I love it. I think your work is so awesome. I have my two forms of it. I was on welfare as a little boy. No matter how much wealth I've accumulated, I still have a scarcity fear of being broke and not having food or eating, which is insane if you saw how I live and where I live, but it's there. And then also because of my dad's drinking when he was young, he would be gone.

42:27And I have this scarcity issue with people leaving me. I keep people who work for me way too long working for me after they've proven they're not qualified because I don't like letting people go in my life because I have this scarcity trauma from thinking my dad was going. I've kept it with friends who shouldn't be in my life anymore, but I keep them around because I have this scarcity issue. I'm only sharing things about myself with everybody today. So maybe when you hear something, you go, oh, that doesn't apply. And then I give you my version, you go, oh, maybe I do have a Scotia, this stuff, right?

42:57And so I just want you thinking about that. Here's a tough question, but something that you talk about. What if you're listening right now or watching and you go, I don't think it's me, but it is my boyfriend. It is my girlfriend. It is my daughter. It's my dad. It's my significant other. Is there anything you can do if you're in a relationship with somebody and you believe you're with somebody who's high-functioning depressed? Is there anything that you can do? Before I answer that question, I just want to thank you because I think many people look at you and they see on the outside, strong, powerful leader, has it all figured out.

43:32But when you share and you're vulnerable, it is so powerful. Thank you. So thank you for doing that. I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. Not always easy. So thank you. It's not. It's not easy. But I think people need to hear it, especially men. Thank you. And so when you have someone in your life who's like this, just know that on the inside, they're blaming themselves. They may not be conscious and aware of it, but they've internalized self-blame. And when you think of a child, they approach problems with magical thinking, right? If I just get good grades, maybe dad will shape up. If I just behave, maybe mom will love me more.

44:13It's the magical thinking. Well, when you don't process that trauma, that magical thinking goes into adulthood. If I just work, work, work, then I'll never have to have suffering again. And you don't even realize you're actually suffering. You're a human doing. You're not a human being. So when you have someone like this in your life, know that they've internalized blame and shame. So when you approach them, they're not going to want to burden you. They're not going to want to acknowledge that, you know, they have this happening in their lives because on a deep level, they don't want you to feel bad for them.

44:47They don't want you to suffer because of them. So you have to be there for them and you have to validate for them. So you have to show them and model for them that, okay, you know, it's okay if you don't do the X, Y, Z, I'm still going to love you. And they're going to be like, oh yeah, yeah, sure. You know, I don't think that way. But when you're sending that message, their unconscious brain is soaking it up. So they may not get it the first time. They may not get it the second time. But the fact that you're there, you're shaping their attachment style because you're not leaving. You're not saying, I'm out of here when you're not doing.

45:20These people believe that their self-worth is tied so closely to their role that if their role breaks, they won't be lovable. But you have to remind them that you're going to be there for them no matter what. So sometimes it's sitting with them, even when there's nothing going on. Sometimes it's meeting their basic needs because know that they're not getting nutrition. So they may need you to bring some food and just like help them out, bring them a glass of water, you know. You need to help them to rest by taking the load off. Sometimes just offering your help, your presence. They need to know that no matter what, you are there.

45:55And it sounds so simple, but know that they're projecting onto you what you're feeling, right? You feel as if, oh, like, they don't need me. They're so strong. No, they're projecting it onto you. So you have to be there for them, even though they're exuding confidence. They need that connection. They want you to help them. They just don't know how to ask for it. And then you have to mirror for them. You know, you have to share with them. Be vulnerable around them. Show them that it's okay to be vulnerable, to let their guard down, for them to share. Because if you're just taking their projection at safe value and you're not sharing, you're like, oh, they don't need me, then that's not helping them.

46:33You have to model it for them. Okay. We're going to talk about thoughts in a second, you guys. But I want to ask you, you know, a lot of times I'll have guests on. My audience is more than half women and significantly more now. And in the book, sometimes when I'm doing interviews, I'm a male. I think I ask questions from my perspective sometimes. And in the book you talk about, you said you're a perimonopause. Like, what about hormonal effects? Obviously, and by the way, if it affects men, speak to that as well. If when their testosterone levels drop, I don't know. But what about women hormonally and this idea that maybe this can change over time as their bodies are changing over time?

47:17Well, it goes back to the biopsychosocial model. So biologically, women experience fluctuations in their hormones over time. I started off really in this space because of postpartum depression. I studied postpartum depression in women who had just given birth over the past five years. I've even done studies using psychedelics with postpartum. Postpartum depression is a really interesting thing. When you give birth, progesterone drops, and this can change the way that your brain interacts with something called GABA, which is a neurotransmitter, a neurochemical that helps you feel calm. So if you think about a postpartum mom, she's constantly checking her to see if her baby's breathing, right?

48:03She can't sleep. She's anxious. So it's not just the sadness. And 80 % of women will experience blues. 80%. Yet, when you open the brochures, you see a happy mom and a happy kid. But 80 % of women experience this. So we have to validate that. But it's not just postpartum. There are windows of vulnerability with regards to hormones throughout a woman's life. Think about puberty. When you're going through your period for the first time, there's something called premenstrual dysphoric disorder. So some women experience intense mood issues and anxiety and low self-esteem around their period. So there's the periods, the postpartum, and then the perimenopause.

48:49Most doctors don't even get one course in perimenopause. Most doctors haven't even heard of it. They've heard of menopause, which they probably get maybe one or two hours in, in their entire training. but perimenopause lasts up until you actually have menopause which is a year without your period but perimenopause and menopause can have mental health symptoms tied to it absolutely and i've developed something called the ties method t-i-e-s t is thinking so when you when you're going through perimenopause and menopause you may be forgetful you may not be able to multitask You may have a hard time organizing problems with your memory.

49:29And then the I is identity issues, because there are changes that happen in your body and brain that makes you question who you are. So you may find that you have more belly fat. You may find that, you know, you're not as into intimacy as you used to be. You may notice that your hair is thinning, your skin is changing. All of these things shape how we view ourselves. And so you may feel like, I don't know who I am anymore. And then there are a lot of muscular changes that happen as well. So if you were into Pilates and you were into all these things and you're finding that you're more achy, you may feel as if you can't function in the things that you used to do.

50:04And then the E is emotions. The E in ties is emotions. People may experience moodiness, irritability, anxiety that they didn't have before, which also shakes your sense of self, the I, right? The identity. And then the S is sleep. This is what I noticed first in terms of my mental health symptoms related to perimenopause was that I couldn't sleep as deep as I used to. And I was like, what's going on? And so if you're not getting good, rich sleep, that impacts all, I say, no pun intended, it ties it all together. Because sleep impacts your thinking. It impacts how you feel about yourself, your identity.

50:39And it impacts your emotions, your mood, and your anxiety. And so when, and you know, that affect labeling, being able to name it, when I speak about ties at these conferences, women are just like, that's what it is, you know? You hear a woman in her late 30s and 40s saying, I'm old, I'm getting tired. It's perimenopause. That's why you can't hang as late as you used to, you know? That's why you can't have more than one glass of wine. So when you know what you're dealing with, then what does that do? Oh, it's not me. you don't internalize the blame and shame and you're actually able to do something about it you're going to for the for the thinking issues you're not going to multitask you're going to prioritize you're not going to try to be everyone's hero you're going to not be superwoman you're just going to focus on what's important and you're also going to organize your life better you're not going to have clutter you know you're going to make sure you look at your schedule the day before so you're not scrambling in the morning you're going to use something that i call a launch pad in your home where you put your keys, your wallet, your glasses, so you're not like looking for things.

51:38And these are things called organizational skills therapy, which I actually do with my small clients who have ADHD. I start to use them for the women who have perimenopause. It makes their life so much easier. And then the eye, the identity issues, you're going to do things for your skin that are different because your skin, your hair, they're going to have different needs. You may not be able to run as much as you used to, but your body is changing as you get older. So you're going to have to lift more weight. You're going to have to eat more protein, meet your bodies. You shouldn't be using the diet from your twenties when you're in your late thirties and early forties, you can have to change things.

52:14Right. And that way you can still keep doing the things that you love to do your identity. You're still you things are different in your body, but you are still you two things can be true. And then the E, the emotions, a lot of people will say, I'm so moody. I don't know. I just snapped on my husband. when I snapped on my coworkers, what's wrong with me? Well, know that that's the hormonal fluctuations. There's nothing wrong with you. But when you know it, then you can plan better. If you're feeling this way, maybe you won't, you know, schedule an interaction with someone who triggers you. Maybe you're going to, you know, keep toxic people at a minimum.

52:47And you're going to regulate more. You're going to practice more meditation, more mindfulness, so that when you go into stressful situations, you're not going to fly off the handle. And then the sleep is huge. So as you get older, your thermoregulation, so your body's inner thermostat changes. That's why women get hot flashes. So you're going to keep your room cool at night. You're not going to have so much caffeine that you can't turn your mind off when you go to bed. You're going to do things like worry journals. It's called worry procrastination. You're going to try and write all your worries at one time in a day.

53:21So that way you unpack it. So when you go to bed at night, they're not racing in your head. And you're going to eat foods that are rich in melatonin, like walnuts, bananas, and so forth, because you need to really honor your sleep. And there are things like cognitive behavioral therapy that are really helpful for sleep that do not require sleep aids, because we know that sleep aids, such as some certain medications, are habit-forming, and they actually don't improve your sleep. So there are behavioral things that you can actually do to help your sleep at night. I'm really glad I asked you. Now, guys, by the way, you may think that I asked that for the women, but I didn't because you're probably with a woman.

53:58You could be of this age or you will be. I have to tell you something. When you were just describing this, I'm thinking of so many of my friends sort of in this space. I think it's pretty well known that I'm like friends with more of the ladies in the space. And I'm kind of like the adopted dude. So like on their retreats and stuff, I'm the one dude that gets invited. Right. And I have to tell you guys, so many friends of mine have gone through this change and don't understand it. Why am I depressed? Why am I angry? Why do I feel more lost? Why am I sad more often? Why am I not sleeping as well?

54:36And you almost just literally described every single, I'd say 95 % of my friends that are near that age. And it has become a very rough one to six, seven year time in their life. also often this is timed with life changing maybe the children are leaving the home for some people at the time like in your case your daughter's younger it sounds like but they're leaving the home and dynamics change and so guys if you're with a woman by the way ladies i'm not a doctor just look at your progesterone levels if you're having a hard time sleeping it's something go right there take a look at those levels have a conversation with somebody about it i'm not prescribing any medication trust me but i'm so glad that i asked you that because there's all these things that contribute.

55:19And I just think when I think of high functioning people in my life that are maybe are lacking the joy they once had or want to have, I'm picturing many of my female friends about that time in their life that you're describing. And so God bless you for covering that. Your teen adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained one who navigates life on their own terms effortlessly they do not always show up on time but when they arrive you notice an individual confident in their contradictions they know the rules but behave as if they do not exist new team the new fragrance by mu mu defined by you okay one last question this has been awesome to you guys.

56:09You say in the book, you can take control of your thoughts, right? Or there's help in doing that. So I think we should finish with that. A, do you really believe that? And B, how does someone begin to take at least greater control of their thoughts if they're struggling with them, running away from them, or just not being the ones that serve them? Just overall thoughts, changing them, your viewpoint on thoughts. Well, you know, about the progesterone that you said, even when you get tested, because perimenopause is like a roller coaster, not this smooth sailing that people think happens right before menopause, your levels may not reflect what's happening.

56:48So that's why it's important to go based on the symptoms and have a doctor who understands that. And there's a three P method to know if it's mental health versus perimenopause or menopause. The first P is, are there changes in your period? Because mental health symptoms don't have the changes in your period. The second is physical changes. It's not depression if you're having your hair falling out, your skin changing, you're going to the bathroom more regularly. So are there physical changes? And the third is your past history. If you have a past history of postpartum or premenstrual dysferic disorder, you're more likely to have a harder time with perimenopausal mood symptoms.

57:27So understand three Ps, and that's really helpful. Then I'll jump into the thoughts. No, I'm so glad you got it. That's wonderful. Thank you. Oh, my pleasure. We often try to control our thinking, but we need to spend more time in our feeling as high-functioning folks because we tend to ruminate. And there's something that I mentioned called worry procrastination. So if you think about it, the elephant in the room is your problem. try to practice having that elephant in the room while you're doing what you're doing so if i'm working and i have anxiety the anxiety is the elephant let him work too he has his laptop let him go to work i'm going to keep working it's called metacognition so you're allowing yourself to have that problem in the room but you're not focusing on it and the typical model of cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a behavioral therapy.

58:23We try to challenge the thought and change the thought and put the thought on trial. But many of us who are very anxious and ruminative people, that will drive us crazy. Rather than trying to change the thought, let's try to stay in the present and feel our feels. So the anxiety is there. We're just going to, you know what? If you imagine that the issue is like a passing train, the train's going to keep going. You're staying on the platform, but you're not going to get on the train. So it's just, it's there. So you keep doing what you're doing and it's there. But what you're doing is you're retraining your brain to not focus on the problem.

59:01You're still doing what you're doing in the present and the problem is still there. That's why worry procrastination is a great tool. You pick one place that you want to worry every day at the same time. So don't pick a place like your bedroom because you don't want worries in your bedroom. Don't pick a place of leisure, like your favorite couch where you relax in the afternoon. It could be a corner at your office or a place in your work or even a place in your home where you don't want to associate with leisure. And that's where you're going to do all of your worrying for the day. So for example, if you're at work, if you're at work and you have a worry pop up, say, okay, I'm going to save that worry for my worry corner.

59:38And you'll maybe write it down on your phone and then say, I'll save it and worry about it in my worry corner. What the research shows is that if you save your worries for that time and place, by the time you get to that worry corner, you realize you're not even worried about it anymore. So you're retraining your brain to not catastrophize, not put so much weight on these worries. And over time, what you'll notice, because I've done this to myself, you'll notice is that when something pops in your mind and worries you, you're like, well, I will literally worry about that later. And then when you get to your worry corner, you realize it was not as catastrophic.

1:00:11So one of my daughter's favorite movies is Kung Fu Panda. It's kind of like you're training yourself to be this master warrior where like, yeah, the worries are still there, but I'm still present. I'm still focusing on what matters right now. That is so good right there. It's finding that place. And by the way, the reason you don't want to do it in your bedroom, you're creating triggers and anchors to that space that when you then walk in there later, it triggers the worry. By the way, I'm going to do that. When you were talking, I'm thinking, where am I going to do this? But I'm going to do that.

1:00:44I'm going to pick my space I also just think awareness of a worry and a thought helps it lose its power and influence over you when you just become aware of what you're doing. And I'm going to worry about that later when I get over to my worry corner, my worry place. And by the time you get there, the emotion of the moments probably left you most of the time. Perspective kicks in. You've also not created triggers and anchors all over these places you're at regularly that then re-trigger worries when you go into those spaces. This has been so good. And your work, I just want to encourage you. This high-functioning depression, this concept is amazing that you're the first person I've ever spoken to about this, and it took 54 years, yet it absolutely is probably an epidemic.

1:01:35It is probably an epidemic in our world. And I love the fact that you don't just diagnose the problem. You provide a bunch of solutions for it as well. I think you're awesome. I think you're wonderful. I think your work matters so much because these are the people that are creating and innovating and moving the needle in families and lives and businesses every day. And they're undertreated and underhelped because they're quote unquote functioning. And so you're changing families' lives. You really are. Thank you so much for this today. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you for using your platform for good and for allowing me to share this message, because I truly believe that when people are joyful, the world is a better place.

1:02:18People who are joyful make less mistakes. People want to be around them. They view the world differently. They're kinder. And I truly do believe that joy is really the key to a lot of the problems, solving a lot of problems in this world. So thank you. Thank you so much. This is a kindness. Kindness and beautiful energy is contagious. And you have that immediately. You have that. There's a warmth to you. There's an energy that I think everybody's felt today, whether they're listening or watching. And I certainly have. I wish we were doing this in person. But you guys, this was Dr. Judith Joseph.

1:02:54And for a lot of you, it's your first exposure to her. But I have a feeling it won't be your last. The book is called High Functioning, Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy. and I know we just did that for the last hour to some extent and I think the book can do more of it for you so God bless you everybody Dr. Joseph thank you so much and everybody max out your life God bless you

1:03:17this is the Ed Myland Show