The Relationship Secrets Every Couple Should Know But No One Teaches

30:55and there's a breath there because you're actually capturing what the emotional impact is on your partner then that you can feel it it's tangible you can feel that you went beyond the barrier and it reconnected you that's why we call it reconnect and then in that you've addressed the emotional side of both of your brains and i know there's a lot of questions so i'll just complete to five hours. That's the moment you know you can move into the logical side. So the last two are about remind and we can now have a conversation where we remind each other of what are our agreements or we need to remake our agreements or even we didn't have any.

31:35So what are our agreements going to be going forward, whether it's conflict, whether it's around parenting, finances, business, whatever the category might be. And we need to now make for my own integrity. I promise you, and no matter if you end up breaking this agreement or not, I will commit to a minimum standard of care that I will not going to do this anymore. And that's the promise I take forward. And that's going to be my integrity. And then lastly is that we reconcile. But it's that we can now genuinely look at each other and say we we managed our emotions we got to the root cause we we made new agreements i'm recommitting there's a rebuild of trust there and there's something that we could take away as the silver lining we actually gained something from this this is like the sprinkle on top like again that's why we said even if you did the first three but the fifth one is powerful if it was a really big conflict and it almost felt as though what does this mean about us and or rattles your sense of are we good it's it's kind of that just final layer of babe like we got this we're a team and we're going to move forward isn't that important because i'm just thinking about what you're saying and then by the way i'm gonna ask a question for some of the ladies are like look i'm with a neanderthal dude we're not going to be talking about i take responsibility for right i know a lot of people I'm thinking of my buddies.

32:5925 % of my guys can communicate like you do. 75 % of them have no idea how to express their emotions or their thoughts whatsoever. So we're going to go for those in a minute. Just stay tuned. But the reconcile thing is, it made me think, you kind of need to resolve these arguments and reconcile because if you don't, to some extent, you've left this open wound that goes into the next one and the next one and the next one. So many couples actually never reconcile at all after the disagreement, after the argument, and it's just over, but it's really not over, right? Do you agree with that? The wound is sort of open.

33:30100%. Well, and here's the real danger of not repairing. It changes the way you see each other. If you really think about what has a marriage decline, of course, like the circumstances might look different, the details. But what really happens is how you perceive each other changes. In the beginning, it's like you see all the amazing things about the other person, almost rosy colored glasses at times, right? And the longer you're together, the more that you face the circumstances, the hardship, the adversity. If you don't handle it with that same team mindset or take responsibility and repair, you start to see the person in a more negative light.

34:10They don't own their part in this. How can I fully trust this person that I'm building a life with if they can't even apologize for when they say something that's hurtful? how am I supposed to show love to this person that can't just acknowledge my feelings so that's the real danger that for anyone listening if you struggle with that part of repair of taking responsibility of talking about feelings you have to ask yourself how is that changing the way my partner sees me very true by the way the best apology is a not repeated behavior yes right like the best apology is don't do it again I gotta tell you here's a biggie for me and again this isn't my space but i coach people people are usually in relationships it's staying curious about the other person not just love or belief being curious one of the great things when you're new with somebody everything's new well how did you grow up what are your parents like what are your goals and dreams and you you're curious about them and the longer you're with somebody you're like i know him i know him and so you're not curious anymore you only ask to your point earlier jocelyn the quality of relationships the quality of the questions ask the extra question How was your day?

35:17Well, what was great about it? What did you start to get more curious again? It creates this. And by the way, if I'm with you and you're not curious about me, it just always happens over time. Then what ends up happening is I, I sort of ceased to want to grow and evolve and give you something new to be curious about. But when you get curious about another human being, I've done this with my friends too. I stay curious. They begin to think they're more interesting. They begin to want to grow and change and evolve and have more to give when you're, you can't be curious once or twice. But the difference in a new relationship and an old one many times is curiosity.

35:55And you can't keep it the same new as you can in the beginning because I do know you now. But humans evolve. They have new thoughts. They read something. Something new happened. A new stimulus. Their back hurt. Whatever. Things change. But when you lack curiosity with another person, it sends a signal to them that growing and changing and evolving and having thoughts and something interesting about them ceases. So it may be your fault they're boring. It may be your fault they're not growing and changing. And just if you could add that curiosity, like, and here's how you do it. You walk in a room when they're there and without them knowing it, watch them for a while.

36:32Just take them in. You're so used to just seeing what you see. You don't even see them anymore. you just see what you always see you ever go away on a long trip and come back you have more love or appreciation for the person and so i think if you could just stay curious about someone and add that it's not easy to add but it starts with you like there's more in there than you know and the and and the longer it's been you've checked in there's probably more in there than you think and so i would just tell you i think that it's a it's a critical component that can reinvigorate something. Because eventually, if I'm not curious, you're boring.

37:12I am boring. What are we doing? And then I say, I don't need much. Make me a sandwich. Let's watch Netflix. I don't need a lot. But it's because I'm no longer curious. But when you first started dating, you were, you couldn't wait to text. What was your day like? What happened today? What went down? What are you thinking? What was your dad like? What was fourth grade like? Once you have all that historic information about somebody, you got to become curious about the new. The cool thing about a long-term relationship is is that now you have all the historical data you can really get into who they are now and they will grow and change and evolve and become more interesting if you're interested and when you lack interest they become less interesting there's no reason to be interesting because you're not interested so i just want to add that i want to add that it's just it's a it's something in my life man i'm so inspired by what you just said thank you because you do this so well you speak to people's greatness and i just realized that like in the marriage you stop talking to their greatness and you talk about their deficiencies yeah that's good bro oh man this is such like i've never gotten to this place with someone before right like i love this when like when we leave here right for example having a conversation with you it's like wow the way ed saw us and then it calls me up like wow ed sees my greatness and then i'm inspired to keep growing and evolving right i don't see it as i need like i have to change but do we maintain that same thing for our partner if i'm speaking to jocelyn to the greatness that's way different than if I'm criticizing.

38:53And I think you can feel that. It's hard to even describe it, but it's way different. I can talk to Jocelyn, to the person I know that she is, and not diminish her. And it builds her up and she is like, wow, Aaron sees me as this partner. More so that Jocelyn really speaks. It's the end of my life and I need to do a better job of doing this to you. But really seeing you for your greatness and speaking to that, that's really that same team mentality. You know what I love you do? you really look at one another when you speak to one another. That's real love. By the way, one of the best points made in the history of the show.

39:27Oh, wow. It's what you just said. And it's so good because we do it with our children more than we do it with our spouse. But when I've been around buddies of mine, like when their wife's not there and they'll go, bro, my wife's brilliant. My wife is brilliant and they mean it. And then they'll elaborate on it a little bit more. Or like my wife's so hot or whatever. or even my female friends. I can think of one that's in the space right now. I love, I could name a bunch, but Jenna Kutcher and Amy Porterfield are both dear, dear friends of mine. And by the way, there's way more of them than this, but the way they speak about their husbands when he's not there, he's so incredible.

40:05He's so intelligent. He's so thought provoked. He's so interesting, right? And the way Jenna speaks about Drew is just, I just love it, right? And then you do that in their presence, they want to express and expose more of that part of themselves and they want it to expand. So we don't do it enough in our relationships. And you're right, speak to their greatness because there's so much in there. We just, here's the deal. We just start to take each other for granted. We just do. And then over time, the person sort of conforms to the way you do or don't treat them. That's how humans behave. And it's just, it's a tragedy when two loving people that came together that had something special, lose curiosity, lose the greatness in one another to your point, which is much better said.

40:52I think if I could, I love that this is all kind of coming together because as we've hit on the difficult conversations throughout this episode, right, we've talked about having the hard conversations or sharing our needs and our feelings that can't consume the entire relationship. There also has to be the times that we just speak life into each other, that we just encourage us. That's why the love account deposits versus withdrawals is really important to think about. When was the last time I just poured into them? I didn't need to make the remark about the dishes. I didn't need to make the remark about just something that actually isn't that important, especially if I have not doubled down on the positive, if I have not acknowledged them and made them feel seen and that I see their greatness.

41:36And so we want to make sure that's really, really clear, that the communication can't be only the heavy stuff. that's a part of it it's also got to be a lot of the good and the love the appreciation so well said i just think that we i'm so glad we're doing this right now because i think it's like it's like let me know i'm important let me know i'm the most important thing in your life remind me of that that i'm important and i'm beautiful or i'm handsome and i'm strong and like tell me make me feel it see me pay more attention just pay more attention get curious there's so much more in her than you're seeing.

42:14In the beginning, you probably oversaw it, and now you undersee this incredible person in front of you. Pay attention. You'll see it. So anyway, and ladies, same thing. Pay attention. Tell him. Tell him. Look for his greatness. It's such a great point you made. So let's talk for a minute. By the way, I'm not being fair to the guys, but the guys know what I'm saying.

43:09Some ladies are listening to this going, that would be great if my guy could communicate like this, but he doesn't. And I'm saying it's the guy 90 % of the time. There are certainly women who fit this description as well. It's not fair to the men. So should they at least be able to say, hey, babe, can we communicate in a more mature way? Is there like a better way for us to do what we're doing? Is that at least the beginning? I mean, maybe you can't go through all five R's or you can't say, this is how I'm feeling right now. I want to express this. they should at least be able to say something as baseline as, hey, we're better than this right here, right?

43:42Can we elevate these things we do when we argue with each other? Can we be a little bit more mature? Can we please do that as a team? Is that sort of like, if you've got to speak the language of your partner to some extent, is that the beginning of that journey? Or am I, you've got to basically be able to communicate with these beautiful words? I can go after you. I got something. I just want to, a simple thing for the men, and I was just like this when we first got together too, but responsibility activates reciprocity very good oh very good so it's very good so that's it right of all the things we said five hours or not so if the guy basically goes look my bad if that's how he speaks my bad i messed this up my responsibility i'm sorry yeah you're saying different language same point you're in the door right and so long as it's not too general hey my bad right so long as you've thought a little bit about the situation a little bit about your actions hey my bad shouldn't have raised my tone like that really take responsibility for that if that's it and your responsibility is not then followed up with but i only did that because or anything that just cuts the legs out of it it's responsibility period period and then you're in the door and that activates reciprocity right so wherever the conversation devolves from there it's like you're you're in the conversation you want to be and you're on the same team and so if that's the only thing that many of us men take away I think that's it very good because I think the distinction is that our apologies aren't lazy or that they're empty so if we show up and we're just trying to move on past something so it's kind of a half-hearted all right sorry babe my bad like that might work for certain situations but if it was a heated conflict or there was real emotion or you've been disconnected for a while it's not going to cut it especially I can speak from the female perspective it's not because it doesn't show me you cared enough to really think about it I know you think about your profession I know you think about your clients I know you think about how I can be a better father so can you allocate a little bit of time to thinking about how that interaction affected me and why so if I can't label I know what I did that impacted you how would you be able to have faith that I can do different what if you're with someone who's not very verbal can they do it through another means can they do it through uh their behavior and active kindness a gesture a touch is there is there is there grace in there where you're both extremely great communicators you know what if you're just with somebody who's just not very verbally expressive ever good or bad even when it's good there's not a lot of I loves you's this is amazing there's got to be a non-verbal way of communicating some of these things I would think of course I think it has to work for the other person too right so that's why a marriage or a long-term partnership requires you to say what works for my partner what lands for them so yeah you might say I'm not great with like these elaborate phrases that's okay could I write it does it work for my partner to actually just show them that I'm going to be different but I have to know them because if it's not then I all right I need to get out of my comfort zone if for them they need to hear me say the words then I probably should get better at that very good no that's the answer you two are the experts on this I certainly am not I'll tell you what happened the other day with a friend of mine who's going through a tough time with his wife and I'm actually better friends.

47:12I've known the wife longer than I've known him, but we talk. This was my advice to him. And I just want to know your thoughts on it. This isn't in the book. It's just us talking. He regularly threatens the relationship when they argue. And I told him, I said, I think one of the rules is once you threaten divorce, you have now created a space that didn't exist before that. And so if you're going to threaten divorce, if you're going to bring up splitting up, you better really mean it because you've now opened a door in your relationship that you cannot walk back through the other way and i told him i said bro do you mean he said no and i said you you can't continue to drop that in your relationship and think that that doesn't have a permanent impact in my opinion permanent once you threaten this and you don't mean it you've opened a door that doesn't exist that is a that is a no-go zone in the discussion until it really is the truth do you agree with that 100 because if you think about it commitment and security is the foundation of your partnership.

48:09So it's going to rattle that. It creates these fractures in the foundation between you two. And it also makes it feel like, okay, if us getting in an argument means you're out, now I'm afraid of conflict. Now I'm afraid that if I bring up my feelings, my needs, you're either going to get defensive or it's going to escalate into a conflict. And what that does is it trains each other, don't bring up stuff to me. And what is that going to do? That's going to erode your connection. That's going to erode being able to talk about the real stuff. Again, communication is about setting each other up for success.

48:45So if I can't bring up to you, if we're together, I mean, you've been together for decades. You've probably had to have a lot of conversations about here's how I'm feeling in this season and here's what I need. If you could never talk about that stuff and it was constantly a fight, now you both shut your mouths. Now you start to see each other in a negative light. Now you're dissatisfied you're disconnected so you have to remember that you are either training each other this is safe we can talk we can handle anything or you're training each other don't bring stuff up to me just be happy conflict's a problem and i'm out if we have hard moments you're training someone how to treat you all the time right what if someone's listening this and they're going we're not even close to what you're describing um when this thing erodes i'm being treated wrong and i've gone a long time with letting her do this to me or him do this to me so we we're now years into a pattern of i tolerate treatment that's less than i'm worthy of what should they do that's the hardest question i've asked anyone in an interview in a long time i don't know but there's a perfect answer but what would you say to just picture some you know since you jocelyn you you're a woman there's some woman listening to this that says it's been eight years and you know what repeatedly when it erodes he treats me in a way and i i've let him do it for a long time so i it's not it's not going to change because i fix this in one second what would i do one of our or he or in your case aaron it could be he with her one of our favorite phrases is that you don't have to end a marriage to end this version of the marriage so you have to ask yourself, like, do I want to rebuild this?

50:33If that's in my heart and that's what I want, I want this life with this person, but also this version can no longer work moving forward. Then we need to have some, a series of conversations, which are absolutely possible. We see it all the time with couples. It does require the other person being willing to come to the table, having a take, you know, this is who I am, take it or leave it mindset. how is that compatible with marriage? So if you have a partner that's willing to come to the table and both of you declare, you're right, this version can't move forward. We need to draw a line in the sand.

51:09We need to both talk about what we are going to do differently, what we each need from each other, what we call, what are our non-negotiables moving forward. And you both are receptive to that. you're committed to it, you can start a new chapter together. There's a famous quote that you will be married two or three times in your lifetime, hopefully with the same person. And so you probably need to declare this chapter is complete. We are going to create a new chapter together and it's going to take some hard conversations, but it's possible. Right at you, Aaron. If I said to you, hey, relationships break up because what would you say?

51:48They don't accept or know that marriage needs to evolve. Even as we listen to all the things you put out there, all the people you talk to, I think we all understand that we as individuals are going to evolve and what that will require of us. But for some reason, we really missed that part in marriage. And I was thinking about your friend too. Many couples get to that hard place where they feel like, I just can't do this anymore, whether it's from more reactionary patterns or like repressing things for a long time. And the main thing is they just didn't reset. They just didn't set the new vision.

52:25And I know you love, without a vision, we perish. It's the same for a marriage. And that's the reason that you're married two or three times throughout your life. When it is to the same person, it's because you have to recreate. You have to reset your aim together. What's your life going to be like? What do you want to shoot for? What do you want to aim for together? What's going to inspire us? What is God calling us to now? Because it's different. then you come together and say, well, who do I need to be? Who do I need to evolve to, to be the type of person and the partner to you to achieve that, if that's going to be it, right?

53:01And so that's really what rebuilding a marriage takes. And so if you're in a hard season, those that are listening to this, that's how you start the conversation. Look, I've thought a lot about this and I know things have been hard and I'm willing to really see my responsibility in a lot of this the future i see for us is like this i mean what do you see all right and you're not those people now but if you say i'm willing to do my part to become that and i want it to be with you and it's an invitation right it does then land on the other person to receive the invitation and maybe they say to you and you're gonna have to mourn this i don't think that sounds like me And you're like, maybe it's not.

53:49But that is the conversation you want to have, not this reactive, we're splitting, we're divorced, I'm out. It's like you can feel the difference. I can even maybe, maybe we can complete this marriage and I can actually leave you with love because the season that we did create together, I can think about the gratitude I have for that. So if you have to complete a marriage, that's how you want to be doing it. But I think to your question, this is really where you want to get to. By the way, what a great point. We have a vision for ourselves. We have a vision for our business. What's the vision for your relationship?

54:23What's the dream? What's the ambition? What's the vision for your family? That's one thing I talk about a lot. And who do you need to become? Oh, wow. Good point. Because in a marriage, you can't really just stay the same person. Every season is going to require different things from you. So that's why you have to be asking yourself, what does my relationship need from me now? wow, this season of life that we're in, what does the relationship need from me? That's that same team mindset again. Yeah. Rather than, no, this is just who I am. Take it or leave it. Yeah, I don't think enough people take pride in having a wonderful relationship.

55:00Yeah. Meaning we got a good one, you know, and we're proud of it and we work on it. And it's something to take. We take pride in, I'm getting better, I'm growing, I accomplished this. But what about the we part? I have this weird philosophy and you can poke holes in it because it's way too simplistic. Life is not this simple. But I want to ask you about these two things and I'll let you both just take it where you want to. Someone asked me the other day about this stuff and I said, I don't know. I'm not an expert on this stuff at all. But I said, here's two things I think. Couples that pray together and sleep together, stay together.

55:31So I believe common vision, if you can, in prayer, literally pray together. and I also believe physical intimacy is really important. It may evolve over time where you're not doing crazy fun things every single day like you did when you were 25, but you hold hands, you hug, you touch. And if other people go, no, because for some people, physical intimacy is not important. Most of my friends that have divorced, either A, they did not pray together and had no shared faith, or B, their physical intimacy started to go to the side and they became pals and then really not even very good pals who just sort of shared a house and a couple kids.

56:11And over time, they wanted a spiritual connection that they could share with somebody or a physical connection that they could share with somebody. Am I crazy to think that? Well, let's think about what intimacy means. Ultimately, it's about closeness. And there are many different means for feeling close together. And if you aren't actively putting effort and attention and intention into feeling intimately close, which the two main categories being emotional and physical, there's also, of course, like spiritual closeness, then of course you're going to feel distant. Of course, you're going to start to feel like roommates.

56:45That's a very common experience that we'll hear from couples, especially as they're together a longer period of time is like we're cohabitating, we're managing life together, we're delegating responsibilities. And of course, there is a functional part of your relationship. we want to make sure that we balance that function with fulfillment two f's right so what is the fulfillment part the fulfillment part is we feel close our intimacy is a priority and yeah we don't maybe feel the same in our intimate life specifically physical as we did early on especially when you've been together decades right for us we're coming up on our first decade married but we don't want to put it on the shelf we don't want it to be the thing we'd prioritize last which is one of the biggest mistakes that couples make is they start to almost feel like it's like the relationships this thing they can put on the back burner and they start to get complacent they start to almost be like there's like an obvious object in the room like oh there you are again rather than our relationship is a living breathing relationship that we have to put energy into that's the hard part you can't get complacent you can get comfortable that's different you're going to feel comfortable in your relationship i would hope so the longer that you're together but complacency is kind of sitting back and like i got you rather than no i want this person to continue to want me to thrive in this relationship for us to feel fulfilled which requires that effort that engagement that very good i'll say something to the guys real quick men that are in a relationship boyfriend girlfriend or husband and wife if it was your daughter who was married to a guy exactly like you the way you behave think talk and act and you knew every single real detail would you be thrilled your daughter was married to that man oh good would you want it better and the reverse ladies if it was your son that was married to a woman exactly like you your thoughts words behaviors and actions would you be thrilled that that's who your husband got to spend his life with And then from there, it kind of gives you a barometer.

58:54And even if you don't have children, pretend you do when you ask yourself that question. Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way. You want to sell those wheels. You want to get a CarMax instant offer. So fast. Want to take a sec to think about it. Or like a month. Want to keep tabs on that instant offer. With OfferWatch. Want to have CarMax pick it up from your driveway.

59:24So, want to drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. Let's talk about some practices for a second. You guys walked in and I came downstairs. There's a feeling around the two of you that's genuine about your work. You really love one another and you express it well. I'm sure behind the scenes there's disagreements like what you've couple days ago and and and and the and the tools to do it yeah but there's a realness to your relationship you can feel it when you're with each other you lean towards one another on non-verbal communication all of it are there a couple practices that you do on a regular basis that have strengthened the marriage that someone could adopt whether it's a date night or something like that Aaron I'll let you start with that anything that comes to mind something you do regularly yeah the simple one which you can just do within a couple of minutes it's I really don't want to assume I know how love and connected Jocelyn feels.

1:00:19And it's a hard question to pose because depending on the answer, but if I say, I just want to check in with you, where's your love account at? Right. So this love account is just a measure of how love and connected she feels. And maybe you measure it from one to 10 because otherwise I'm just assuming, right. And I'm largely thinking of how my day is going and our daughter and getting off to school and, you know, doing our marriage business and writing this new book and you know we do largely think about what I'm doing and I generally think I've probably been good but but if I think that Jocelyn's at like an eight when really she's at a four because something I said that was unintentional really took away from her love account I want to be able to address that as as early as possible and not even say that I'm wrong but okay let me make sure that I then go forward with more love account deposits let me pay attention to i'm going to be sure i reduce places that could be a withdrawal from you and so yeah again i know that we do this work a lot so those listeners might think well i wouldn't say it like that but just simply hey hey where's your love account at and just be willing to hear what that number is if it's a four if it's an eight and then hey you know what could i do to increase that a little bit more this week for you and that question is really just about checking in with each other, right?

1:01:41The quality of your conversation is going to be the quality of your questions. So if you're just asking like, how was your day, babe? How'd that meeting go? It's like, sure, you're going to talk a little bit, but if you want intimacy, which again is closeness, you've got to ask better, more intentional questions, that being one of them. So to your point, we check in very often that question multiple times a week organically, you know and it's not like this sit down let's have this cereal it's a light we're cooking dinner hey babe where's your love account at driving it's just a check-in because it has us be more conscious and aware okay noted i'm going to focus on more love deposits for you so those check-ins are very very helpful to prevent conflict what would aaron do to make a love deposit i'm just curious like what's that look like in your case so someone's listening okay that's what they mean so and to really add more language the deposits are the things that make you feel more loved and connected, right?

1:02:33Just like a bank account. That's the analogy that we like to use. A withdrawal are things that pull away from that. So everyone, that's just awesome right there. It's just a good way to conceptualize love, right? Otherwise it can feel very intangible. Everyone is very different. Like what deposits move the needle for them? That's why you want to even ask your partner after this podcast, what are the most meaningful deposits to your love account? And also what are the biggest withdrawals? So those are two follow-up questions I'd recommend everyone ask. I can give something specific because we were traveling here to come be with you, which is amazing.

1:03:06We live in Arizona. It is amazing. Thank you. So just starting to pay attention, I knew that adding to her love account was going to be beneficial, even for coming here for this conversation, our energy together. So it's simple things. She had a carry-on bag, and I noticed that I could grab it. She didn't ask me, so I grabbed the bag. I also know that she needs to stay hydrated all the time. I want my water by me. So when she asked, like, hey, can you fill up my water bottle? I'm like, it already is. And when he said it's already full, to me, it honestly made me feel like he pays attention. He thinks about me.

1:03:43That is what we need to maintain in a relationship. That complacency, again, it can sneak in. Like, they got it. They can get their own water. Rather than just that little thing. It doesn't have to be huge things. Of course, there can be peak moments, you know, where I planned a really epic 40th birthday trip for him. I mean, it went all out, right? And I'm sure that was a huge love deposit. But you're not doing that every week, right? The grand gestures, a really extravagant date night, a really big trip. Those are few and far between. So it's really about the love deposits that you can make in your daily interactions.

1:04:19You're in the kitchen anyway. Touch them. You're making dinner. Graze their back. you're in the bathroom instead of just walking by them to go to the bed, kiss them, pull them in, hug them for a second. It doesn't take long. That's the mindset people have to kind of get past is this, how long it takes, how much I'm busy. I don't have that much time. You might not. Does it take a lot to just make those small gestures when you're interacting anyway? Yeah. Can I share one more thing? It's so great to like reflect on my birthday. Cause what you're saying is so spot on. we were in this place in california a lot like your place like cliffside on the ocean and all of it was so amazing but i really think about what impacted me the most like what was the deep deposit even we had a chef we even had a private chef good you know like out here on the patio and we were with really good friends of ours and that conversation at the table could have been hey how are things going these are close friends of ours but jocelyn paused everyone and said i'd like to go around the table and just have everyone share what does aaron freeman being in your life mean to you and i think i'll always remember that yes the table and the doors open to the ocean side but absolutely the fact that that conversation was completely different and it could have been nothing was wrong with it it could have been a good time we laugh with friends but the fact that she redirected it that way was so meaningful to me she loves you so much she wanted you to feel that love that's a great part bro do you uh by the way i'm just thinking about myself too it's like the the duration shrinking the duration in between these check-ins and deposits is is critical sometimes you're like it's been three months and i haven't you know so i'm thinking of all the things that i'm not good at which is a couple things you've already said here today but it's shrinking the duration my friends that are in the mormon church one of the things i love that they do, they have a thing called family home evening in their church as part of the church.

1:06:20And what they do is they, it's a thing they do every week and they meet as a family. I think they go through scripture. They talk about their goals, what's going on in their life in the week. And in the book, I believe you talk about having a family meeting every single week. We didn't do that when my kids were growing up, but when I read it, I'm like, that would be cool right there. And I'm just wondering if that's also one of the formulas. That's what we call our check-in, right so we will do these organic like i said we're just driving so we ask each other that love account question but one thing that really helped in the beginning when we were working on our communication so for a lot of people who are listening where they're like we're just kind of really starting to improve our communication then you're going to want more structure to it right because you want to create that safety with each other so having a time every week schedule it is it sundays over coffee together and your kids are running around but you're able to still check in?

1:07:11Is it on a walk? Again, it doesn't have to be this hour long, heavy sit down, make it a part of your Sunday brunch. And so it's an intentional time that you're checking in on a few things. This is what we find for couples, especially those who are busy, which everyone can relate to busy right now. Number one, you're checking on the love account. That's absolutely a question because that's, that's really what it's all about, right? Your marriage anyway, is like how loved and connected do we feel? So that is a really important question. Then there's of course the logistic check-in. Are we on the same page of what our week looks like?

1:07:44Because what can happen, these are just little things that can cause unnecessary conflict. You don't talk about your week. One of you wakes up, it's like, hey babe, I got to go early for that meeting. The other person's like, I thought you were taking the kids to school. Unnecessary conflict. So there's even just like a logistical check-in. Shoot, yeah. And so you're hitting on the emotional and the logistical. And so everyone can kind of come up with their own questions. We also have a whole family meeting guide if they want to use more of our structure but we would recommend everyone listening to start to have an intentional time that you check in every other area of your life that you value professionally again if you really care about a certain hobby or a sport true your kids you know like we just had our parent teacher conference it's a check-in yep we need to connect with our teacher why would you think it's weird to have a check-in with i don't know why and it's strange you'd never run a business by not having your once a week board meeting or collective meeting with your sales team and like yet you go through your I think it's just because we see each other all the time and we don't we don't create these structures is there a um let's go to some hard stuff just for a second here when something changes dynamic wise is when I see relationships get stressed so meaning um you didn't have children now you do for a lot of people listen to my show it's also you had children in your home and they've left and that dynamic changes or maybe it's that you're in a boyfriend girlfriend relationship and one of them had a job and now they're unemployed or they've or they've switched careers that changes their schedule now change really shakes up relationships when the pattern is no longer there right and you've gone through that type of a season where you didn't have babies then you did you went through the chime with a financial challenge so i'll just call that the challenge time the change time in a relationship what would you tell us about that those circumstances that you face as a couple which there's going to be many that we call plot twists right you didn't even anticipate it to go that way or for it to be as hard as it was that's going to in a sense like put just stress on the relationship thinking again about the the foundation I think it's really helpful to have that visual right of the structure is just kind of putting stress on that structure of your partnership so what it does is it ultimately tests your ability to adapt as a couple.

1:10:01And so we don't like adapt really means can we recognize what we're going through as a team? And same question as we mentioned earlier, what does our relationship need from us now? It's when people stay rigid or inflexible and they don't change their ways to the season that they're currently in. So it's currently, okay, we have a baby. The way we operate now has to be totally different than it was. We aren't going to get weekly date night for a while. So we can't say, well, we can never connect because we can't get date night. No. All right. We could have coffee together while we're holding our baby and just, and actually have a check-in with each other.

1:10:42So it's about how we're going to connect is going to look different, but we need to adapt. Same thing. Let's say we're going through financial stress when we did that. That was a plot twist we didn't expect. How are we going to adapt to this? All right. Well, you know what? I know he's under a lot of stress and pressure right now. So I'm not going to voice every little grievance that I have because I know he's thinking about bigger things, right? That's me adapting. I don't need to bring up that little thing that I might bring up otherwise if things are fine between us because he's handling bigger stuff right now and vice versa.

1:11:15We do that to each other. So you have to ask yourself, do I adapt to the season? Do I think about what the relationship needs from us now? Gosh, this is really good. I'm telling you guys, there's people listening to this right now go, I'm in a good one. We got a good relationship. And three years from now, they find out it wasn't as good as they thought. I've had so many friends be blindsided by the deterioration of their marriage or the relationship. And it didn't begin to deteriorate once they realized it it deteriorated before when they didn't know it only one of them knew it or maybe neither one of them even knew it it just started to go what is a red flag so to speak that maybe things aren't as perfect and copacetic as you think is there anything that you can think of that with the work you do with all the counseling you do that you see as a common thing that's a red flag there yeah there's so many well one of the common terms in relationship in the marriage space right is the harsh start so what's that mean i don't know what that means so it's that if i just bring up a seemingly simple conversation and i immediately get this like zero to 60 response like there's immediate defensiveness okay there's like almost an attack on me or it's hey i was actually just asking a question but you just like i think attacked me back so it's that you have these really fast startups into conflict i would say definitely that is a key red flag because as we've already talked about it's not the topic it's not really a subject it's like whoa this was really a simple conversation i approached it curious my emotion wasn't high but if you continue to push on that you shouldn't have reacted that way now you're in the conflict cycle so you got to see that coming and say wait a second there must be something that one of us either hasn't identified or hasn't revealed and so that i think is a key flag there's definitely something else we gotta talk about here joshlyn you were saying there's a lot what are some others i mean there's many but i'll try to stick like dive into one so we've reached the age now where 50 of the couples we know have already gotten divorced or are and there's of course different nuances to why many of them are parting ways but one of the themes that i notice from them is that they let seeds grow into weeds so that's a phrase i use to describe those little things that you hold in.

1:13:39I'm not feeling connected, but I'm going to hold it in because I know my partner's stressed. They got a lot in their place. I'm going to hold it in, hold it in, hold it in. But again, remember those things that we're holding in change the way we see our partner and how we respond to them, how we communicate to them. And then they're going to respond a certain way back. And so the opposite is true. If we can openly communicate with each other because we create a safe space. We do things like the check-ins. We're conscious of those fears and those triggers that we talked about earlier. And so we're actually able to hear each other, hear the feeling, hear the need.

1:14:14We don't have to hold things in. That is one of the biggest things that deteriorates a partnership is that those little seeds grow into a weed. That's resentment. That's, I don't even see the positive in you anymore. I see the negative. And those weeds feel a lot harder to clean up. It's 100 % still possible too. Like that's where a lot of couples can, in a sense, you know, end one chapter and start a new one, but you don't want to get those weeds. So as you can see, the common thread from a lot of our conversation is creating that space to openly communicate with each other. And it's not always a fight.

1:14:49You need to be able to share your honest feelings and needs with each other in a way that isn't hurtful and in a way that isn't always a fight that's one of the biggest things so that's a huge red flag that i have one invitation for men actually yeah because this is an interesting part many men that i talk to i would imagine the same for you they say i don't need much yeah yes and for some it's true for some it's hey if i'm laughing because i actually don't think it's true but we do say it i think you're right go ahead i you know for me i think there can be less you know maybe jocelyn would say hey there's a few more things i feel like i need i might say there's less for me doesn't mean they're not deeply important but i will hear that sometimes where men say well i don't need much it's like that could be true but if we watch your reactions and you react really harshly two simple questions my guess is there is something else that you need so i just would want some men to be able to reflect on that because if you say i don't need much and you're saying it like very disheartened and you're saying it very resentful it's like well okay it may not be a few things but there's something you really need to identify and bring up yes okay last question of all the stuff we've talked about i want you to sell us on how great a marriage can be okay okay so like we've talked about the hard times and the arguments and the conflict and how to come through it how to improve it techniques our weekly check-in we've covered a lot which i knew i would with you guys i'm so grateful you came but now let's just step back tell us what the dream can look like what can it what's what's a good one a great one look like and why is it so amazing maybe we just all need to be reminded of why we did this thing in the first place let me add a frame yes please and i think i heard this from jordan peterson so give give that credit okay i love that you do that yeah it's that life by itself is worth it because the things you go through are both rewarding and challenging that's great and on top of that would you rather do that on your own or with someone that 100 has your back that's good and for me it's interesting things we haven't hit on this but it kind of frames my answer so we had very different upbringings his parents are still married five decades in my parents went through a very tumultuous divorce not a friendly divorce very tumultuous and so now being a parent I am 100 % convicted to being able to gift my daughter seeing not just a healthy partnership a happy one to be a cycle breaker and that's the responsibility that we have whether you have children or you don't is to pave a better path for the next generations.

1:17:40And especially for those who are parents who are listening, that is a responsibility I want to call you into is that you have a responsibility to show them a happy and a healthy partnership. And so like Aaron said, we're, we're building a life. I want to build a life with him there. A couple of days ago, we had an argument in that moment. He kind of pissed me off. Right. But that doesn't threaten that we're building a great life together that I can't wait to look back in a few decades and be like, can you believe what we did? And really respect and admire who we have each become. So marriage, it is a self-development journey.

1:18:19It does call you forward to grow, to develop, to confront parts of yourself. And personally, we love self-development. We want to grow and marriage is a great invitation for that. You two are exceptional. Oh, thank you. I knew it before and then we kind of had a difficult conflict with scheduling which was our fault and I'm just really grateful that it worked out how it did when it did and where it did yes and this was an extraordinary conversation like really I want to thank you for today helped me and I know you helped millions of people so thank you for making the journey out here today and this is a dream come true I think for everyone listening because there's probably a lot of people listening who their dream is to meet you maybe even for some of them be on the podcast and we've been that listener for years hearing and being like one day we'll be on that show yeah and so you talk a lot about that like just having that belief in your vision and your future and continuing to strive for i've watched your motivational you know speeches even and so to me this is such an amazing moment of like hearing you mentor in the ear and now we're here with you beautiful well one of the things i love about doing this show is i do keep that seat open for exceptional people who not maybe everyone in the world knows for a while we took the show in the direction where everyone was a celebrity everyone was this and those conversations are good some of them are great but this is the stuff that changes people's lives and you just literally today there are people that are going to get married that weren't there are families that are going to stay together there are marriages that we're going to break that won't there's ones that were just so so they're going to get great and more than anything is what you said at the end so many of these parents can now begin to model an exceptional loving beautiful relationship together i'm really grateful for today.

1:19:57This was my honor, certainly not yours. So guys, their book is The Argument Hangover. They're going to have another one coming out soon. But I got to just tell you something. If you could follow their work, where are you on Instagram? Where do they follow you on Instagram? Meet the Freemans. And that's also our website, our URL, meet the Freemans. Okay. So that was Jocelyn and Aaron Freeman, you guys. They're exceptional. I think you're going to share today's episode. Share it with your significant other. That's the place to start. All right. God bless you. Max out. This is the Ed Myron Show. We'll be right back.