#98: The Science of Connection - Adam Dorsay, PsyD

31:48Her shifts felt endless, and she got crappy tips because no one wanted her serving them, because I could feel how much she didn't like it. Well, when she took into account what her actual character strengths were, and one of them was interpersonal intelligence, she began to learn who her customers were. She began to really get to know her coworkers. And lo and behold, her customers began to love her. The regulars were just so stoked to see her. her co-workers were stoked to have her on a shift you know a four-hour shift which previously felt like you know 24 hours for her felt like you know less than an hour because time would go by so quickly because she experienced flow uh time which she was immersed in it time just went by quickly and her tips went up and when it finally came time for her to leave the job she was actually sad to leave the job now i could have done that perhaps in my corporate job and i did in fact use that technology while I was there.

32:57I got to know my customers really well. I, I of course got to know my colleagues really well and I got to like aspects of it. But the problem for me was I wasn't leveraging all of my loves and interests. And I did have, I will say both the privilege as well as taking a risk because I didn't know how it would go. As I told you offline, for two years, I was making$10 an hour with no benefits. We had to take a home equity line of credit out on my home on the gamble that I would love being a psychologist. But I was sure I'd love it. And lo and behold, I did. It was a big risk. and I'm glad I did it.

33:45I had a, by marrying so well, uh, coincidentally, I happened to have married a psychologist. Um, so not only did I get the emotional intelligence from her, um, from a scholastic level, but she was also a very well integrated, deeply, you know, intelligent, uh, profoundly emotionally intelligent person. Um, and she also wanted to support me when I did this daring thing. And she wanted to bet on me. And I'm glad she did. The ROI has been huge. So one of the ways that we do this is we evaluate, you know, like, how much are we loving our work? How much can we find a way to perhaps learn more at work if we can't leave our job?

34:36How can we lean into the musculature we want to grow while we're there? Is there more to learn? Can we look at our dot com job as a dot edu job, like as a well paid internship? Personally, as a psychologist, I'm constantly learning. When my wife and I even go on vacation, I am stacked with books. But I would say I listen to at least one psychology book a week. I have a psychology podcast. I'm constantly speaking with the best and the brightest in the world and learning from them. I'm committed to learning as much as I can within this profession. So that's something I would ask everybody to do as they connect with work.

35:23Connecting with ancestry, very important. My Angeli once said something akin to, if you don't know where you're from, you don't know where you're going. Of course, many African American people don't know exactly where they're from because many of the records have been taken away. And many of them go to Africa and learn about customs over there. Many of them speak to their elders and try to find out more about how to, you know, reclaim their identities. One of the reasons that my own Jewish identity is so important to me is because it is cultural. There is something really beautiful and I don't want it lost on my watch.

36:01Many people tried to kill my people throughout history and time in many countries. And I don't want it to die on my watch. And I want my children to know where they are from and have more meaning in their lives as a result of that. And what they do, it is up to them. What they do with that is up to them. In terms of nature, I mean, for sure, our brains are the current version are about 35 ,000 years old, maybe 100 ,000 years old, but our surroundings have changed dramatically. But you and I both know that when we go someplace beautiful in nature, our caveman brain just says, Oh my gosh, this is where I belong.

36:41This is amazing. You know, maybe, maybe given the creature comforts of modern society, I will not live here underneath this waterfall and in the biting cold and in this cave, but I need to spend more time here to recharge, to renew my mom, my wife, my wife says that my face changes when I'm in nature, literally, it changes. And you're, you're nodding, because a lot of people feel that way. And so, and art, as I mentioned, you know, I can, I can enjoy a shortish opera, but you know, unlike my dad, who can do the six hour. But for me, you know, there's, there's music that you and I could probably compare notes on where you and I would be like, Oh my God, I'm totally into that.

37:25And it's important that we listen to stuff that we're actually into rather than the stuff we're told to be into. When I was growing up, I talk about this in my book, but, and you're, you're going to laugh because, you know, James Corden did a whole thing on this. But when I was in high school and Wham! had just come out, all of the punk rockers in my school and all of the New Wavers were clowning on it because it was teeny bopper girls music. Except for the fact that I freaking love George Michael's voice. I thought he had a voice of God. And as he grew older, like his stuff was just like unreal, unreal.

38:03Listen without prejudice. Are you kidding me? Every song on an album. Perfect. There was one only, only one small problem. I was not allowed to come out and let the world know how much I loved him. I had to listen to his music with my windows rolled up lest somebody look over me and say what's wrong with that guy i have absolute i'm absolutely out with it now i'm glad he was finally accepted in the rock and roll hall of fame um some of my friends would think that he sucks and that's fine we have different connection ideas you know when i was growing up one of my friends was just all about joe strummer and the clash and the who I understand their music I see intellectually why they are good but I will not be listening to London Calling anytime soon even though I know all the lyrics it's just it's not my jam but I will listen to Morrissey and the Smiths and I'll listen to Defeche Mode all day and he won't and I know another really divisive one by the way Chris Martin in Coldplay I'm 100 % on board and I know a lot of people who love to hate that guy in that band and I think they are just brilliant anyway we all have different connection formulas we must not pretend to be something that we are not it's so deleterious to our health to pretend it's like wearing shoes that are three sizes too small and trying to run a marathon it's not going to work oh oh yeah in the fourth one uh so i wrote about something greater spirituality whatever you want to call it and i wanted it to be all inclusive so that whether somebody goes to traditional churches or synagogues or whether the most hardcore absolute orthodox atheist were in the same room, they could find some agreement.

39:59And anything greater than me fits into that. You and me talking right now, Josh, you and I are creating something greater than me just sitting alone. And tonight's sunset, which is going to occur right now, outside this window, I can see it. I know it's already tomorrow in Australia relative to me. It's Wednesday here, Thursday there. but right now a sunset is happening to the right of me and there will never be a sunset like it ever again last night's sunset may have been similar but it's it's not the same and my son's face is going to change tomorrow and my face is going to change tomorrow and you and I both know that we have to be present for these these tiny miracles that occur all the time uh Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel talked about this idea called radical amazement.

40:57And while he was alive, we were not studying the science of awe. Since that time, we have been studying awe. And awe, as it turns out, is like gratitude on steroids. And it changes our brains. In fact, when we are in an awestruck phase, when we say, wow, like when I was talking about Grand Canyon and Stonehenge, When you go there, you say, wow, you're, there are some people who might not, but the majority of people are going to say, wow. And when they say, wow, and when they're blown away by this thing that most of us will be blown away by, if you put our brains under neuroimaging, what we would see is that the same receptors that come alive when we are taking psilocybin, which is the psychoactive element in magic mushrooms, and you're nodding, which we also now know can be very helpful for certain types of trauma treatment, at least it's showing evidence that it may be helpful when done properly.

41:52I'm not saying just, you know, it's kind of the Wild West right now, and I'm not saying just do it with anybody. But there is promise. Johns Hopkins and the MAPS studies are showing a lot of really great, great promising data. But without any of the risks of taking in psilocybin, we can experience awe and have the same receptors come alive. And what happens to us when we're in a state of awe is we become less self-conscious. If you and I were to go to a solar eclipse in Oregon like it was in 2017, and my colleague, Dr. Jonah Paquette, talks about this in his book on awe, strangers are hugging each other because they're not self-conscious.

42:32It's like, we're seeing something that's amazing right now. I don't know if you remember that whole thing with the guy with the double rainbow. And he's like, oh my god, it's a double rainbow. People were clowning. South Park made fun of it. I thought it was beautiful. Because he was in an awestruck state. And he was like a child. And he was in his beauty. I understand that it's funny. I know that it looks silly on the outside. And I understood why it became a meme. But to those of you who are rolling your eyes into the haters out there. Or the people who are clowning on him. I'm going to tell you this, that dude experienced something magical and spiritual.

43:11And I'm going to ask you, are you holding yourself back from experiencing those things in this life? Because if you do, that will be a regret on the deathbed. Yeah, that's such a good point. I actually, I watched a documentary on the Australian sort of oceanic, oceanic tides. and it was relating to a lot about the whales the fish the specific because a lot of the um yeah the ocean kind of ends up and builds this like random islands and stuff for around australia and it was just complete it was very specific but it just showed the complexity of basically how little we know about the the systems the natural systems and the biologists in it were just so passionate about this like incredible complexity of nature and yeah just really inspired just a feeling of complete awe about how little we know even about what's so close to home like I think it's about about five percent of the ocean has been explored like we just know so little dude I gotta I gotta run something by you I'm forgetting the name of the guy who found the Titanic, but I saw him speak and he said, NASA and space exploration has like, I don't remember the number, it was something like a thousand X of the budget that studying our own world and the submarine life.

44:48And I think about that for a second. We like to go out. We don't like to go in. And I thought about that as a mechanism. Like, yeah, people like to think externally and do the building of the external things, but they don't want to build the internal stuff. They don't want to think about their internal structures, their psyches. It's very similar.

45:12It's been hypothesized that within the ocean are the cures to all of the diseases. It's like there is so much in there. If we just would expand the budget and treat the ocean kindly and study her it's like apparently it's like a treasure chest that has not even been really considered yeah that's so fascinating because they do they cover a lot about these underwater forests which provide massive amounts of oxygen and really affect the environment and they're trying to rebuild these these groves that i mean we are obviously we're we're land creatures but we're still mammals. We have the mammalian dive reflex.

45:57I'm quite into free diving. I'm obsessed with whales. Whales basically provide nutrients to the entire ocean in this kind of 360 degree... I did not know that. Just by the poop. Really? Nourishing the ocean. There was big effects from when we were whaling a lot. This is, I think, one of the most beautiful representations of of how we can um rebound and save nature they banned whaling and humpbacks in particular had a massive i think at least 80 increase in numbers within sort of 50-ish years and yeah that's had a massive effect on the underwater forests and everything down from that because they're they're kind of nearly at the top so many many ways top of the food chain And their poo provides nourishment to the lowest levels, like the plankton and whatnot.

46:56And then that moves up to all of the other fish. So, yeah, I think ore is just such an important element. And you're right. Everything is unique. The one constant is change. So everything that we see in every moment is entirely unique. so even close to home the way we feel now there could be a feeling of awe towards that it's it could be difficult or it could be challenging or it could be beautiful but we could still recognize that it's unique and it's constantly changing and that we are part of nature I love that so much and I'm in awe of what you just said I mean I'm sure certain parts of my brain came alive as if I was on psilocybin when you were saying that because I had no clue about whale poop or the fact that stopping whaling had caused such a great rebound because I only think about all of the crap that's been going on in the ocean that's not been good.

48:00And so I'm heartened to hear that there's, in addition to a lot of bad news, there's some good news to be had as well. And it's my hope that, you know, more of this consciousness does begin to populate the planet because we need we need these structures i mean when we when we when we cause harm to the earth uh boy uh we don't know what we are killing and what the repercussions are actually going to be and they're generally not good definitely i think it's actually one of the few examples of governments worldwide agreeing on something and then actually effectively creating change quite quite quickly as well so you mentioned and i think it's really important just work um and you went through this change yourself how would you recommend that people do find um connection in work how do they make a change as we get older and i've noticed this myself and I know there's good science we become a bit more fixed and and psychedelics as you mentioned which obviously have a lot more research to be done and I'm not recommending they're still illegal in many places but that there is effective research for them that seems to be showing that I think they're probably going to be extremely important for mental health in future but also meditation and these other than know thyself, the psychotherapy, positive thinking, they all make this change and loosen these self-instructors, which I think make it easier to jump into the fear around changing work.

49:39But I wonder how you would recommend that we do change or look at changing work or even how do we find what we are passionate about? I feel for me, I went through university and nobody was really asking these questions. We didn't talk about it. I jumped into a degree that in hindsight, I was just like, the internet, that's not going anywhere. It was quite money orientated. I mean, it's been a great job. And I think there's been many, yeah, there's many things I can do that still help a lot of people. But yeah, I wonder how you would recommend doing that, approaching finding work that builds connection.

50:19It's really a difficult one to answer perfectly and holistically. But I will say this. We have to be willing to sacrifice to get where we want to go, almost without exception. And many of us are just not willing to do it. Many of us are not willing to really think outside the box. I know when I was considering becoming a psychologist, I was very rigid. And my wife kept on saying, dude, honey, we can do this. We can do this. And I was just like, no, we can't. It was irresponsible. I really was very much wed to this idea that I had created my fate and there was something really beautiful about me accepting my fate.

50:57And she was just like, that is the dumbest thing you've ever said in your life. And I had to really check in with myself, are you willing to sacrifice? And what that meant in this case was a lot of nights and weekends were going to be allocated to studying. But the great news is we no longer need to go to traditional brick and mortar institutions. We can do a lot of our learning online or in hybrid systems. There are universities that are entirely virtual. There are some that are, again, hybrid. And are you willing to pay the price? Are you willing to say no to a lot of cool things in the immediate to say yes to something ultimately?

51:42And those of us who are that deeply committed to doing the thing have to be willing to leave the shire to borrow a little bit of Lord of the Rings here leave our comfort say no to a lot of things that we would like to say yes to my wife went on a couple beautiful vacations with our then two year old son that I missed out on because I needed to write papers go to class, all those things. It was a loss. When I look back, I do feel sad about not having gone to those things. And I feel unequivocal as well that I made the right choice, because I also knew that I wanted to demonstrate for my son that work could bring immense amount of meaning and pleasure and i did make sure to make just get a lot of time with him as well uh and and i did and to be very present while i was there so that being said we have more options than ever before we need to attain a modicum of conviction before setting off outside the shire and we have to be willing to really really sacrifice to the gods and say yes I will say no to all of these awesome things because I'm saying yes to this thing and there was a dictate that I used and I would recommend it to everyone to think about what their version of this is and it is the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.

53:34What is your main thing? And what does it mean that you have to say yes to and double down on? And what does it mean that you will say no to? Because when I was in school, it meant saying no to a lot of stuff that I wanted to say yes to because they were not part of the main thing. The main thing was to get my doctorate and to get licensed and to become a good psychologist. And that was, that was in the professional front. On the family front was to be spend as much time with my family as possible and to be there while I was there, not to be elsewhere. It wasn't perfect. There's a video of me looking down at my phone while I'm with my child.

54:17I'm not proud of that, but we've all had those moments. But fortunately, that was not characteristic. stick. And the third thing was, for me at least, I had three main things, was my community. And that included my friends, that included the school that my kids went to, and me serving on the board of the school, things like that. But everybody has to figure out what their main thing is, and everybody has a different main thing. And if you ask yourself in a very simple way, is this part of the main thing, or is this not part of the main thing, that will help you as you sort out when you're considering an activity?

54:52And what are you willing to sacrifice to get there? And of course, the primary thing is doubling down on the thing that you have conviction, as much conviction as possible, that is the right path for you. That's the byproduct of a lot of soul searching and thought. One of the things I also recommend is talking to people who are in the profession that you're considering and asking them in an informational interview something akin to what do you love about this? What do you hate about this? What do you wish you had known when you started this? The quality of your questions matter. In fact, quality of your questions in all things matter.

55:30I heard from a very smart man once that the quality of your questions determines the quality of your life. So asking good questions is a big deal, whether they are external towards somebody who's doing a profession that you like, whether it's asking somebody if they want to get married, very important question, or whether you're engaged in your own self-talk when you can't find your wallet. I couldn't find my wallet a few weeks ago. And the first question, the knee jerk was, how could you be such an idiot? Well, that doesn't help me find my wallet. That's a dumb question. And in fact, it's like asking on Google, you know, if you can imagine a search bar in your head, how could I be such an idiot?

56:06Well, I will see a lot of evidence throughout my life of me being an idiot. That doesn't help me find

56:15last? Who else could you ask? How can you look through your calendar to see where have you been? And I looked through my calendar and lo and behold, I remembered two days prior, I had been at the tailor, uh, who was working on, um, some trousers and, uh, like how I use that word trousers instead of pants. Hey, English, English. Um, so I called, I called, I called the tailor and I said, uh, have you seen my wall? And she said, Oh yes, I have it right here. I was thinking to myself, why didn't you call me? But I didn't say I said, just thank you very much. I drove over and got my wallet. But the quality of our questions definitely determines the quality of our life.

56:52And when we ask people who are in a profession that we are considering, that's probably one of our greatest data sources and asking them good questions and figuring out what your questions are may help you double down on your conviction. I love that. And I think it's Jack Canfield that said everything we want is on the other side of fear. A hundred percent. It's just so good to highlight it. And I think asking good questions is a great, a great point and could be quite difficult to, to do at times. It's very difficult. Very difficult. It's in some ways it's simple, but not easy, but it's very difficult for sure.

57:35and it requires us, yeah, getting outside of our comfort and saying, oh, wow, I'm about to invite some, I'm about to invite some challenge into this life. I'm about to increase the weights that I'm carrying through life for the sake of getting stronger. Definitely, definitely. Having interviewed numerous experts on your own podcast, what are some of the most surprising insights that you've gained about human connection?

58:08I love that question. I would have to go back to Stan Tatkin, who's one of my favorite couple therapists. He's really, he's a neuro geek who is just a relationship genius. One of my favorite minds in modern relationship psychology. and I mentioned it earlier but just that idea that when we are with our one we are in each other's care and that we have to be able to, that's the title of one of his books but that we are in a buddy cop film, that we have each other's back, that we are a co-regulating system and that one of us at any given time must be regulated because when both of us are dysregulated, that's when things get crazy and bad and wrong and things just go down that one wing spiral.

59:09And that one of us must be firmly grounded at any given time. And if both of us are not grounded, we need to take a break and recouple. I'm not talking about a break from the relationship entirely. I'm talking about anywhere from a minute to an hour cool down and come back I can say, let's re-meet in an hour when at least one of us can be grounded. So the idea that one person must be grounded at any given time, that's a very important piece. Another thought that I have would come from another relationship expert, and that would be Harville Hendricks. He is the creator of Imago Therapy. He and his wife, Helen LaKelley Hunt, I think have really made a massive contribution.

59:58His book, Getting the Love You Want, actually led to Oprah's very first Emmy Award. He's been on Oprah 13 times. He's brilliant. He's been on my podcast twice. I felt really honored that he endorsed my book and even contributed to the definition of connection in my book. one of the things he talks about is that one of us at any given time when we're trying to discuss something that could be challenging, he says that, you know, sometimes talking is the most dangerous thing we can do. And there are good ways to do it. And there are bad ways. And one of his, in his system, uh, when we're talking about something heated, there is one person who's the speaker and there's one person who's the receiver.

1:00:48And you're nodding because I'm guessing you've heard of this style. My wife and I use this to great effect. We've been trained professionally and personally on how to use this and we use it. And I can tell you it's always as secure as I am in my relationship with my wife. It's always like, oh my gosh, what's she going to say when, if she has something, she needs to run by me. And I'm sure that when I say, honey, I need to run something by you in this manner. I'm sure she gets similarly like, but it always works. It always works. It's the most efficient way to deal with a very inefficient thing.

1:01:32And that is being heard. People can go through months, years, decades, not being heard. lifetime not being heard this system of hearing and checking in and i'm not going to try to describe it too much but where one person's a speaker and the other person just reflects back what is being said without any commentary and ultimately saying even if they don't agree with it that it makes sense that they're able to find something about what has been said that makes sense because what do we want more than anything else is to realize that you know we've been heard and that what we've said makes sense even if the other person disagrees that there's something within that statement that makes sense and that does not include you know that does not give one person license to attack the other that does not make sense i'm not talking about attacking but I am saying uh when when that when the speaker speaks i messages are used when this happened I felt this way that's an i message so uh that has been so I would say as important as connection perhaps more important than connection is the ability to reconnect and through kind of what I was describing from Stan Tatkin as well as Harville Hendricks Both of those are about reconnection.

1:02:57I'll notice in my own version of that, particularly in the moment when there is something I want to say, usually it's not a skillful time to say it. Because if I do take some time, and I think this just depends on the reaction, if the reaction is strong, then the way that I would then speak about something, I would say is often unskillful. because if it's a little bit of time i reflect maybe i write my thoughts down it's like oh i can approach this conversation and the way that you've put it is beautiful like just taking the time for the other person to listen and then you can get your point across in a way that the other person doesn't we sort of recall the selfing the selfing mechanism tightens up we dig our heels in we do not listen at that point i think particularly somebody that hasn't had any mind training psychology training or any know thyself reflections it might be a very difficult to approach that so i think it's such a good yeah it's a great practice in the way that you mention i think i was listening to a podcast the other day about something similar and they put a timer on it was like five minutes i speak and then five minutes the other person spoke so it was like they could get what they wanted to say out within a period of time so that it was fair.

1:04:23So both people were saying their versions or were they listening to the other? They were listening. The person listens and then vice versa. Good, good. In my experience, and Harville Hendricks would agree, it's his idea, it would be me agreeing with him. We can either have a nice horizontal back and forth, like we're playing tennis, or we can create a vertical wall between us, like, Josh, you know, you pissed me off the other day. And then you say, oh, yeah, Adam, well, two days prior to that, you pissed me off. And, you know, it's like, oh, God, we're building a wall between us rather than actually creating some form of actual communication.

1:05:07Absolutely. so we live in an age of abundance um but we also live in a mental health epidemic most commonly i think depression anxiety addiction you name it i think we have maximized all of the mental health issues currently what common themes have you observed and and what What advice would you offer to facing those challenges? There is this paradox that you're describing. We are more connected than ever before electronically. And paradoxically, we are more isolated and lonely than ever before. We engage in social comparison. And we look online because these little blue lights in our pockets that are so attractive saying, feed me, look at me.

1:06:08It's our phones and go on to any social media or Reddit or just, you know, let's lose hours of our lives looking at the lives of others and being basically consumers rather than creators. and I would say you know and of course we know that you know the mental health crisis is huge the loneliness we people used to bowl with each other in the United States no they no longer really do that all that much bowling alleys are closing down and what was so nice about bowling together was people from very different walks of life would meet up blue collar white collar would connect and they'd befriend each other regardless of political party now we're becoming more separate and we're isolated and we believe we're actually more different than we actually are.

1:06:55We're actually not all that different. We just joined these political parties and it's been really sad. And we know that loneliness is as toxic to our health as smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. And other cardiological measures are in some ways less relevant than our capacity to be. in relationship. The Cambridge study has shown that, you know, it's the quality of our love that is really predictive of us living long lives more than almost any other medical data. So that being said, the first thing I would want to have people check themselves before they wreck themselves is over social comparison.

1:07:45What do we, the best way to feel crappy about something great in our lives is to look at it as somebody who's got it way better. MTV Cribs has done a disservice to the world. Seeing these homes of the rich and famous, living with the Kardashians, who have these fabulous lifestyles and these diamonds, everybody starts to want those things. And they actually feel a sense of injustice that they don't have them. One of the things that we also know is that we can hack into the system and not buy that. and one of the ways of doing so is doubling down on what's good in our own lives i just got myself for the very first time in my life a new car was it a luxury item to some in my neighborhood not it's a hyundai plug-in hybrid suv i freaking love this thing it's new it plugs in uh uses a lot less gas and it's just super cool.

1:08:46And I just, I got rid of the OEM tires and I put on some really sick Michelin tires that just, just, Oh, they're awesome. And one of the things I know for sure is that the cars around me in my neighborhood, this is, this is not the car. This is not the bell of the ball. The other cars, the Mercedes, the Porsches, the Teslas, the other really sexy, fancy cars cost at least 2x what my car costs. And I could say, wow, whatever, where have I gotten in life? But one of the things I also know is that what we appreciate appreciates. And the more I appreciate that car, the more I come to love it and love my lot.

1:09:27I think there was something in the Bible, it said something like who is rich and is the person who loves their lot. I love my car. And it's become kind of a family joke because at some point during a drive, I'll talk about how awesome the car is. No one ever knows what I'll say or how I'll say it or when it will be, but it will show up almost like Alfred Hitchcock in a movie. His face would, his head, his profile would often show up, always show up. It'll always make a cameo. So will my appreciation of my car. So appreciate what you've got. I'm not saying be complacent and not try to advance, but I am saying appreciate what you have.

1:10:04We know that gratitude changes the brain. the other thing is don't compare yourself to others compare yourself to yourself you can compare yourself to like if I try to compare myself to Chris Hemsworth it's not going to go very well for me me versus Thor uh that guy's crushing it uh at least at least it would seem to me I don't know him personally but he seems like a really cool person actually I've actually read up on the guy he seems like just a really really nice kind human being. He's not all that impressed with being Chris Hemsworth, although if I try to compare myself to a Nordic god's abs, these are never going to happen on me.

1:10:50If I try to compare myself to who knows, but if I compare myself to me yesterday or last week or last year or how I've been trending over the years, am I becoming more of the person I wish to become? That's The only measure that matters. Compare yourself to yourself. That would be one of my biggest things. Last but not least, I would say, if you're lonely, reach out. One of my clients said something so beautifully said, I'd rather be rejected and find friendship along the way than be lonely. Rejection hurts less than loneliness. we know that rejection hurts rejection hits the same parts of our brain as the pain centers of our brain physical pain but what he said was so brilliant be willing to be rejected for the sake of being less lonely and finding your people who get you i guess last but not least just to kind of pick piggyback off that there was a great video that i'd recommend that everybody watch Blind Melon.

1:12:05It's a song called No Rain. And in it, you see a girl tap dancing in a bee suit and she gets laughed at. And she's walking through town dejected with people pointing at her until she finally gets to a park. And that's not going to ruin it by telling you what it looks like. That is full of people in bee costumes. You will cry when you see this. If you don't, check your pulse because you might not be breathing or something. It is so beautiful. and it speaks to our need to find our tribe. And we may be rejected along the way. It just means you haven't found your people. Find them. I will. We will.

1:12:45Thank you so much for sharing, Adam. It's been absolutely incredible. People are probably now wondering how to find out more about you and your work. Where would you recommend? Sure. Well, I've done a lot of work. I've been making up for a lot of lost time coming into my profession late as I did, but Google my name, Adam Dorsey, D-O-R-S-A-Y. You'll see that I've got a website and, you know, you'll see a lot of information about how to, if you live in the state of California and want to consider working with me. I've got an award-winning podcast with nearly 250 episodes to date with such people as, you know, Golden State Warriors head coach, Steve Kerr, Temple Grandin's been on.

1:13:26I've had all those relationship gurus that I mentioned, like Harville Hendricks and Stan Tadkin on multiple times. And it's just people have described it as a more personal version of hidden brain. I've got a book, as we've been talking about, Super Psyched, about the four ways we connect. I've also got two TEDx talks one on men and emotions and one on friendship and adulthood and I hope you'll check my stuff out amazing thank you so much on behalf of me and the Fitmind community I think it's been a really really good podcast I've certainly learned a lot and I really appreciate the work you're doing keep going thanks my man so much fun love being with you Josh Again, thank you so much for listening to the episode.

1:14:15We really hope you enjoyed it. I just wanted to take a quick moment to say that we recently released a 30 days of meditation, science and bliss course. You can find that here on YouTube or over at the app. We do find that the app offers a much better experience. And then you get daily reminders and you can really track your mental fitness. So highly recommend checking that out.

1:14:45Good luck. Bye.

1:14:51We have a great weatherвин reinstated quality routine, so speaking, you will miss our