471: Why Entrepreneurs Will Benefit from AI with Linden Tibbets of IFTTT

30:17So you imagine you can kind of take all the tweets that you've made in the past or all the Facebook posts you made in the past and kind of shovel that into the AI to help it kind of understand, okay, what does a good tweet in your voice look like or sound like? What are the types of words you use or don't use? And then that next tweet that it helps you generate ends up being much more personalized and much more like you. So I think that's something, this idea of like training the language model is really interesting. Another thing that we have our eye on, you know, they just launched some of the, uh, uh, chat GPT plugins.

30:54Uh, still, I think very kind of private beta E, but, um, there's something really exciting about that, especially as it regards if, and some of the things that if has done well in the past, you know, we have hundreds of connected device services, whether it's your, uh, light bulbs or, uh, uh, doorbell, your robot vacuums. Um, and so allowing AI, uh, to have the access to either kind of actuate those things or take those things kind of into account while it's helping you answer questions. So right now, so many of the really exciting things happening with AI are kind of involving some of the same, you know, kind of broadly available information that like Google search has access to.

31:40But I think, you know, in the near term future, some of the most powerful things that AI can do are going to be much more personalized or tailored to you. So rather than questions about who's the best player in baseball or whatever it is that's much more general, it's more like what's the best restaurant I should go to given all these factors, where I am now, what's on my calendar, who I'm going with, so on and so forth, what my tastes are. And for AI to be able to effectively answer any of those questions for you, it's got to have access and really i think some of this is it gets into some of the scarier aspects of it um you know we can talk ad nauseum about the dangers of ai in general but i think it gets both dangerous and incredibly useful uh the more it knows about you and the more that it can kind of access uh in a very controlled way uh for the services that you're closest to um and so i think that's one of the things you know if you think about our generalized inputs and outputs we've even built a lot of products in the past that were really about um essentially just turning on and off access so rather than thinking about if does automation uh think of if does really kind of like access to your other services in a universal way um that product we had was called connect uh still very popular you can find it in a lot of different especially iot apps i robot app has some really great examples of it.

33:16But we think that like with AI, that product is perfectly suited to really kind of jumpstart use cases, whether it's very specific to you as an individual or to some other third-party developer looking to, you know, for instance, we have 25 different connected light bulbs on the platform. If you're trying to build something for someone that involves AI and their lights, you don't want to integrate with 25 different light bulb APIs. So you want kind of a one-stop way to build those integrations without having to do it as a one-off bespoke integration each time. So really trying to figure out how do we take what we call Connect today and what needs to be different about it in the world of AI to both give people kind of that confidence to grant that access, but also make that access and managing that access really easy and kind of doing it in one place.

34:12So that's a little bit further off in a few months, but it's something that I think we're really excited about today. Hey guys, I hope you're enjoying this episode and learning a ton. As you know, in this series, we interview some of the greatest founders of our generation to find out how they did it. However, if you're thinking of starting your own business and you want to hear from some incredible stories from everyday people like you or I who are actually in the trenches, only been building their business for maybe one year or two years, like they're building right now and they're really in the early stages but they're getting success.

34:48You should come and check out our new podcast From Zero to Founder, hosted by our community manager Molly Flynn. These are in the trenches stories from our very own successful students that have gone through some of our programs. People just like you who are deep within the process of building their very own successful business. These are the founders of tomorrow. You can find the From Zero to Founder podcast on all platforms. And remember, it's founder without the E. All right, now let's jump in the show. I've got to ask, like if you're training the AI to see all the tweets that you've done and then it's automatically tweeting for you as if it was you.

35:30So you're basically creating another version of yourself or like replicating, you know, kind of cloning yourself in terms of the form of somebody that's always on Twitter. How will that work? Like in terms of the trust and the authority of following somebody that you think is fascinating, like, for example, Naval. and going like going oh okay did he actually write this or was this his yeah i i if this than that like how does that work what is your thoughts on that yeah i mean i think it's actually one of the things where you know i'm a glass half full kind of person so uh i think that's kind of a default mode that also a little bit dangerous but I view it as we already kind of have this problem in a big way you know like I think you go on Twitter today and probably half the tweets you read that are attributed to an individual especially if that individual is famous wasn't written by them right like I don't think I don't think Joe Biden has the Twitter app you know but he definitely has a Twitter account and I think we all kind of know he's not writing those tweets, but my guess is, is that most CEOs that are big on Twitter have someone writing their tweets.

36:54So there's already kind of this veil or, you know, confusion that's being added. And I don't necessarily think the answer is to make it more confusing as much as how do we make it something that is more like kind of the essence of who that person already was. Um, I think again, you know, as it inevitably does get more confusing and you kind of have to have probably a whole new set of, uh, you know, almost kind of like filters to be able to understand, you know, like mental personal filters to be able to understand, is this a real person? Is this generated? Um, we'll probably need to be flags and moderation.

37:34I like it's, it's really kind of crazy to think about how both screwed up things can get. But I think also how much better they could be. I think from a perspective where I think everybody then knows that what they're looking at or what they're reading could potentially be written by someone that isn't human, that isn't necessarily that real person. I think that will create the opportunity for us to actually solve that problem. So I think what I'm saying is that for the last five or six years, we've already lived in that world, right? Like there's already been this kind of fakery where people have ghostwriters or they're, you know, they're basically using their personal brand or their name as the way to get content read or consumed that isn't actually generated by that person.

38:25And I think we've all kind of known that, but it's been, you know, we haven't kind of had the high alert or kind of those filters engage to allow us to actually make some of those decisions or kind of parse out what's real and what isn't. Um, but like in a world where you could basically generate a full on video of somebody saying anything and have it look exactly like a video of that person saying it in real life themselves. Uh, I think it will kind of blow the lid off a lot of that stuff and force us both as an industry. And hopefully there's, there's probably lots of companies that can be started to solve this problem, uh, to allow people to kind of have a lot more trust in what it is they're reading and not.

39:08um and at the end of the day i think it's also about the quality of the content do i if i enjoy reading something or if i'm getting some value from it whether it's written by a human or a computer like does that matter um you know and i think that's the other kind of thing we'll have to grapple with uh is especially when some of this content gets i mean i think it already is right like you can go ask chat tbt today to write something about a topic especially one you know nothing about that's going to be way better than anything you could ever write about it so we're already there um and the question is like what's the kind of moral responsibility or ethical responsibility that we all have to make sure people aren't being fooled um and i think yeah part of part of getting to that answer is making sure everybody understands just to what degree the potential is there for them to be full uh so so yeah it's definitely an optimistic view on it um but i think it's kind of a step that has to happen to get to the ultimate solution yeah so one thing that um come up when we were just chatting then i was really thinking about It's like, so effectively the way things are going with AI, you believe or your belief is that it will be easier than ever to start a business because you can tap into a tool like IFTTT and it can be like your own virtual assistant or another pair of effectively arms and legs that can help you get stuff done, start your business, get it up, do marketing activities, all sorts of things.

40:54And so you believe that the barrier to entry, to start a business, launch a business, get your first customer will be easier than ever because you have something like EFT, tapping into chat, GPT, et cetera, et cetera. Is that what you're effectively saying? It's definitely one of the things I'm saying. There's no doubt that just like any kind of a big tech wave, you know, from the PC to the mobile phone to AI, uh, created those opportunities, uh, many times in ways that really couldn't have been anticipated or, you know, like you, you almost had to be right ahead of it. Almost, you know, like a surfer, you couldn't anticipate that the next wave was coming in 30 minutes, but you know, in 30 seconds, you probably saw it out there and could start paddling.

41:44I think those types of opportunities are going to start to kind of make themselves known just over the next year. And I think those will do what you're saying, which is help people start businesses faster, do things that don't involve, you know, hiring. Imagine not having to hire a marketing team, you know, for an additional two or three years because you're able to effectively market across so many different channels in such a personalized way without that marketing team or without, you know, a lot of effort on the entrepreneurs part. So that's definitely going to happen. But I think there's also this thing that like we all are kind of anticipating and it's definitely top of mind with AI is I think the types of businesses people will start will also be radically different.

42:31And I think that's one of the things that I honestly, I don't even know if I have a good answer or a good example of what that will look like. But, you know, you know, three or four years ago, you could probably start a business to help entrepreneurs solve that marketing problem. And now if that marketing problem is about to be solved with AI, a business probably isn't going to be as viable as it was. And I think there's going to be a lot of examples like that, but you also again, kind of have to assume that no matter what that technical revolution was, like as big as the initial PC or as big as the internet was, and as disruptive as that was, as many different types of jobs went away or evolved in a really dramatic way um i think that same thing will happen with ai but it may be bigger it may be very different um but that doesn't mean there isn't always ways to create more value or always ways to find new opportunities to build radically different types of businesses than would have been possible before um i think you know like that conversation is just starting.

43:38There's a lot of, you know, shoot when, you know, my, uh, my partner is a, is a marketer, uh, and turned her, her onto chat GPT. And like in the first couple of days, she was just like, Oh my goodness, I have to start looking for another job. But then day four or five, she was like using it every day to do her job better. Right. So I think if we can get over that kind of initial fear and actually start to approach it and then like an optimistic way or a positive way, we're no doubt going to find so many more benefits, I think, than negatives or problems. Not to say that those problems won't exist.

44:14Yeah. So this is a great conversation, Lyndon, because it's very topical. I'm curious just around one last thing, and we have to work towards wrapping up soon, but curious around, all right you're in 2023 now you are an engineer or somebody with an idea and you want to start an online business and you want to tap into the potential of AI is it easy to build these you know micro sass apps that would be like a chat gpt plugin because I believe the chat the chat gpt chat gpt plug-in stuff that'll be the new app store no doubt about it like that's a multi-billion dollar industry which like spun up overnight um so yeah what advice would you give to uh a potential aspiring founders that want to tap into ai that look trying to look a couple of years ahead and try and think about what are the problems that people need solved in a couple of years to kind to ride this wave because it's not going anywhere.

45:26I'd encourage folks to, you know, whether they've kind of evolved with or, you know, been working in technology for the last 10 years or whether they're just starting to kind of become a student of kind of what's happened, especially with platforms, right? Like if you kind of start the platform clock ticking at around windows, you know, the platform to end all platforms still, and you go through like the app store and kind of what I call the golden age of APIs and how APIs have been treated over the years and try to understand how the people that own those platforms have also evolved, right? Like I think when you look at what OpenAI is doing with their platform and how they're approaching it, you can see that they've learned a lot from what people have done wrong or gotten wrong in the past.

46:16And even with how OpenAI is kind of approaching who it's for. You know, like JetGPT, I believe is like the fastest growing consumer internet application of all time. But I don't think anything they're doing is actually aimed at consumers. Just because a lot of the same people are signing up to JetGPT that also signed up to Instagram in the first year, I think they could actually care less. What they actually care about are folks that are trying to either build a business or work in technology or work in any industry. They're really aimed at building open AI as something that businesses can use.

46:57And so because of that focus, they're definitely thinking about, okay, what are all the things that are going to sit on top of open AI? How are those going to be monetized? What are the strategic things, right? Like I think, you know, even around the kind of learning models, right? That's obviously kind of core to what open AI is and how it works. and so even though I talked about what Ift is doing now in terms of helping people kind of personalize that language model and give it access to information that makes the answers that AI generates for them more personal or more personalized and I think that's something that we have really no expectation of being able to own even though maybe short term there is some value in that and there's some defensibility in that, it's going to be something that whether it's OpenAI or one of the other tech companies is going to do really, really well in a way that allows people to build things on top of it.

47:55So I think you have to look at, as easy as it is to kind of like add AI to something you're doing or build something on top, you really need to be thinking about the kind of age old, like where are the moats here? How do I make this defensible in a way that either the platform provider, OpenAI or whoever it is, or some other much more kind of well-resourced entity can come in and just blow it out of the water or copy it? And I think some of those things are going to be in like approachability. How do you make it either really safe, whether it's for a business or for an individual consumer? I think some other opportunities are going to be around effectively how do you take AI and make it something that isn't even mentioned in what you're doing, right?

48:45Like problems that people need to solve, frankly, don't change very often. You know, we still have to eat, sleep, you know, get dressed in the morning. uh you know we have to you know the basic types of problems that businesses have solved for hundreds of years are going to be the problems that businesses are going to solve in the future and so i think you have to figure out like how does ai solve those problems not just a little bit better but 10x better and do it in a way that's also defensible where it's not just you know the magic of the open api open ai apis with a little bit of you know kind of branding on top of it but where you're actually adding enough value uh that you can kind of sustain that as you actually start to become successful uh you're not all of a sudden in a pack of hundreds of other competitors that the the customer can't kind of differentiate from um so yeah creating value and doing that in a defensible way i don't think those things are going to change like those could have been answers to building a new business 50 years ago.

49:53And I think those are probably still going to be answers. This is a very Jeff Bezos answer of me, I think. But it's, yeah, like the actual problems themselves, they really don't change. It's really like how we solve those problems that seems to be changing faster and faster every day. Are you hesitating to take the next step in your e-commerce journey? Founder Plus has you covered. With proven frameworks tailored to your business needs for fast results, a supportive community of over 30 ,000 like-minded entrepreneurs, and weekly live mentorship sessions, Founder Plus is your key to success. Try Founder Plus today for just$1 for seven days and start building your dream business with confidence.

50:32You can visit founder.com forward slash start dollar trial or click the link in the description to claim your trial. How about every day like right now? you know the economic climate is tough probably going to get tougher what do you think founders should be doing especially tech founders to lead their businesses during a climate like now well if you already have a business I mean getting to break even controlling your own destiny I think you know this is also like a very VC answer but you know I think it's also the truth right? Like we, um, we were, I think both lucky enough and perhaps cursed to be able to raise money fairly easily.

51:19And, you know, I think we raised our first round in 2011 or 12, raised a big round 2014 around IOT. Um, and if I could go back in time, not that, you know, like all of our investors and board members have actually been fantastic. Uh, and I'm not just, kissing ass here. They've been so patient and so supportive. But I think we would have probably been better off had we raised less capital and been forced to actually figure out how do we get to break even faster. And I think that's actually easier done these days than it was five, six years ago. Not just because the price of starting your business continues to come down for all the reason I'm sure, you know, everybody's talked about ad nauseum.

52:07Um, but also because the expectations from your customers are very different, right? Like we, you know, eight years into building our business, we took this like hard pivot into saying that our customer, you know, isn't actually the brands themselves. You know, that's where we built our initial business grew that to about 5 million ARR, but they're actually the individual users. or the people that, you know, everybody at the company is actually thinking about all day, every day in terms of how to build the best possible experience. You know, so we kind of even went against some of the, I think things that I would say are almost like fundamental to the types of things that I love or want to build, uh, by making someone other than the user, our customer.

52:51And we're making up for that time. You know, I think now it feels so much cleaner to be building a business where all of our energy is oriented around building something for the people that actually use the product and getting them to use it enough or value it enough to want to pay for it. And I think that that probably wouldn't have been possible eight years ago. You know, I just don't think consumers were ready to pay for almost anything on the internet, you know, Netflix, maybe. But nowadays, I think it's very different. I think there's an expectation um you know that you know consumers are willing to pay for stuff not just content and so i think being able to like tap into that and think about like who do you want your customer to be what's changed over the last two or three years in terms of their willingness to pay i think allows you to probably take some risk earlier on that may have been you know much more risky or even frowned upon in the early days in terms of building something right out of the gate where you've aligned the customer and the user and the product in a row.

53:56You know, you're not trying to do something fancy where you're bringing in, you know, affiliated marketers or getting, you know, some brands to essentially prop something up. You know, it's kind of back to selling coffee. People that drink the coffee are the people that are buying the coffee. And I think if you have a company today and there's some misalignment in that model where the user and the customer aren't the exact same person and you know actually this is true for almost anybody building a software aimed at an enterprise right often the customer or the buyer it's pretty radically different than the person that's actually you know clicking the buttons or loading the the loading the apps and i think that's due for a lot of change as well um so getting a lot closer to those customers and using that to find ways to get to break even so that you can build a business that doesn't necessarily need a lot of capital to be successful.

54:54And it also goes back to filling that gap between Facebook and the coffee shop. There's so much opportunity and, you know, not just to build successful businesses, but to build businesses that, you know, make the founder incredibly wealthy if that's your goal. You don't have to be Mark Zuckerberg to feel like you've built something that's been totally worth it. It's a lot harder to do with a coffee shop. It's still possible, but I think it's going to be a lot easier to do with those businesses that kind of exist in that right now. It's like a ghost town. There aren't a lot of businesses that you probably we know about that have 10, 10 million in revenue and say like, that's amazing.

55:39We get to 12 million, that, that would be perfect. You know, you, you know a lot about businesses that went from 10 million to a hundred million. But there's not a lot kind of in that middle world. So yeah, there's just so much potential there. Lyndon, I could talk to you all day about this kind of stuff, man. We have to work towards wrapping up. We're going to move to the hot seat round. so rapid fire questions and answers and then we'll wrap up what's your favorite part of the work day well maybe work week we have a weekly all hands meeting called wtf used to stand for aside from what wtf used to stand for wednesday team forum we evolved that to be weekly team forum because it now happens on a friday uh but just seeing the people we work with you know we were one of the folks that made the transition from having like this amazing office space in downtown San Francisco to being fully remote.

56:34Um, and just being reminded that there's people that work on if that are like just as passionate about if does I am, which is like crazy to think about, like, cause I'm pretty passionate about it, but, um, shoot, we had a, we had a board meeting two weeks ago and I think three out of the six folks on our leadership team that attended the board meeting were wearing like some kind of like if swag and it was almost like I sent a memo to everybody like hey wear your if swag I wasn't one of those three but just like being reminded that you work with people that care about what they're working on and if you work in a place where those people are few and far between get the hell out of there you know like you've got to work with folks that care about what they're doing and not just because they care about their personal craft but you know they believe or find something to believe in relative to what they're actually working on.

57:28Um, and so I think, yeah, that, that Wednesday or weekly team forum is kind of the place where I'm just like constantly reminded of that. Um, because it's not just me talking to everybody for 30 minutes, it's everybody else kind of sharing what they're working on and kind of talking about what has happened that week that gets them excited. And it's just so energizing. So it's awesome. And And that's an all hands answer. That's a company all hands. Yes. Yeah. All hands video call. I love it. And how many people on it? Well, we, we have folks all around the world now. So we usually get about 34 or 35 folks.

58:05We have about 46 people total at the company. What's the best advice you've received early in your career? I think early on, and this is maybe even a little counter to what I just said, but But one of my advisors and friend was a fellow named Gentry Underwood. And he started a company called Inbox. They sold to Dropbox. Just incredibly sharp fellow. But we were talking a little bit about, we had some other designers on the team and kind of product folks and engineers. We're kind of talking about giving them autonomy and space and things I maybe disagreed on. And I can't, you know, kind of phrase the advice exactly right, but he basically said, you know, you're the designer.

58:54You know, like you shouldn't, especially in the early days, be constantly concerned with trying to build an organization. You know, in the early days, like if you have a gut feel for what it should be, you almost always got to go with that gut feel. You know, that doesn't mean you should be a tyrant or I try to think about like the, the personalities that probably exist in like the fashion world, you know, where they march around and tell everybody they suck all day. Definitely not that. But don't be afraid in the very early days to have a strong opinion about everything. Because if you're starting a business, you probably do have a strong opinion about everything.

59:38You know, but find ways to effectively communicate that, communicate the why behind it. or find ways to kind of compromise, or if you have to try a couple different things, but don't shy away from essentially executing on the thing you think is right, just because some of the other earlier people involved think differently. So again, a little bit counterintuitive because over time that shifts a little bit, right? Like you've got to give people a lot more room to kind of succeed and fail on their own devices because you can't be everywhere at once. You can still have a really strong opinion. You can find ways to kind of like institutionalize that opinion.

1:00:22And I think that's another thing that I don't have a good piece of advice there, but it's really kind of understanding the different stages. And then the first two or three years, there's no one in the world that's going to care more about what you're building than you. um and i think if you're doing it right over time you'll be able to attract some of those other people and again you'll be able to kind of like institutionalize some of that culture or some of that opinion uh that you had in the very early days um but there's a reason you started the business even you know despite all the horror stories and how hard everybody says it is um and you're just never going to be happy unless you're kind of pursuing those things that you feel strongly about, even if, even if you've had no experience doing it, you know, you've got to kind of try those things.

1:01:11Otherwise you've basically started a business and, you know, almost given it to other folks that don't have that same passion yet because you haven't institutionalized it. What's your greatest motivator? Honestly, it's again, and I trying to find ways to explain this that doesn't seem canned or too kind of PR speed. It's the people that use the product, right? Like anytime people share a story, whether from a customer or their own personal use and thinking about how that actually helps them, I get so motivated. Like even when we were talking about helping people start new types of digital businesses, is a relatively kind of new focus for us.

1:01:55Just in the last year, have we kind of narrowed our focus to think about, you know, you said it like the creator economy. I think it's finding ways to kind of associate what it is you're doing with the people that use it and then finding ways to get in front of that feedback loop, right? Like there's, as kind of a designer engineer, I'm obsessed with in the very early stages of building something, being able to get a full feedback loop from the user experience to like each line of code. So you imagine if it's like a website, refreshing the website, changing something, refreshing the website. So you're trying to kind of get this feedback loop going where every little change results in something that you can experience as the end user.

1:02:40And so as you get beyond that, actually actually have people using it. Um, I think it's very easy sometimes to almost become detached you know you uh if you start talking about coffee shops a lot you know if you start a coffee shop my guess is after the first year you probably don't go through like the customer journey you're right like you probably don't stand in line and wait for coffee you might drink your own coffee um but you don't think a lot about okay what's the experience of someone from the outside in and so you know finding ways to like constantly put yourself in that position of the people you're actually building the product for and you know temporarily forget all the things you know all the ins and outs all you know all the duct tape you know under the surface um and try to experience it as someone that doesn't know any better or only has 20 seconds of their time to dedicate to thinking about the thing that you spent 20 years on um and that just gets harder and harder you know every year you spend on it um it's harder and harder to kind of detach from this understanding that you have from behind the curtain.

1:03:46A couple more questions and we have to wrap because we're over time. Sorry. First one is what's your favorite if this and that? My personal favorite, I think I always kind of go to it, but it is, I've been using IFTTT first with Google Reader and now with Feedly. I'm surprisingly still an old school RSS person, um, to basically save all the things, whether it's videos or pictures, uh, and put them on my own, like personal Tumblr blog. I don't try to get anybody to go to it. I think, I think the URL is like Lyndon Tibbetts was here.com or something like that. You guys, it's like, I don't think I've even looked at it from an outside perspective as much as I look at that feed as really kind of like design inspiration.

1:04:31It's like my, my ongoing you know decades long mood board uh and that uh is powered with an applet you know if i like something in feedly post that to my tumblr blog and then i have another applet uh that then takes all those posts specifically the ones that are you know media of some sort of video or an image and then saves those to a specific dropbox folder that's on my uh my laptop and And then that's the folder I use to power the screensaver. So I kind of constantly have this. Basically, it's like my blog powers my screensaver and all the things I like in my feed reader power my blog. Love it.

1:05:10And then last question, if you could have dinner with any entrepreneur dead or alive, who would it be and why? Tesla would be one of them. Largely just because they feel like he's still so misunderstood. I don't think anybody really understood what Tesla was either working on or trying to say or understood that other people didn't. And yeah, it seems like almost the most likely to have been from another planet kind of people. or I'd have to go way back in time to like Plato or Archimedes or something you know somebody that had a sense of the world in a way that just feels so foreign to who we are today right like I think we're getting to the point where if you think about some of the folks that like you know in those ancient times you know Roman or Greek times only a very small percentage of people in those times could have even possibly been Plato, right?

1:06:10Like the access you needed to have and the support you needed from a community to dedicate all your time to thinking or to traveling to Egypt to learn something from a totally different civilization was, you know, probably ridiculously expensive. It's probably akin to like affording a trip to the moon or something or to outer space today. Um, and I think, you know, now we just have so much more access, but it would be very cool to understand what some of those like super ancient inventors like understood about, you know, where they thought things were going or how they, you know, kind of coalesce, uh, from a disparate set of things into some new idea.

1:06:51Um, cause I just think there would be so much to learn from that just because their context was so radically different than ours today. Right. Like it'd be cool to have dinner with Bill Gates or Elon Musk, but in some way, there's probably always some sense of either competing or inferiority, right? Like they did things that I'm drained to do, obviously want to learn from them because they've been so radically more successful, but do they really see the world in such a different way than I do today? I don't know. You know, like I think in some ways it would be less learning and more, you know, either coming away with some kind of inferiority complex or trying to compete on, you know, whatever it is that entrepreneurs today want to compete on.

1:07:37So yeah, I'd have to go way back in time to justify that dinner. Love it. Well, Lyndon, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today and being so open, honest, sharing so much wisdom and experience on building IFTTT and And congratulations on all your success thus far. I'm looking forward to watching the journey on how you continue to develop this product. And yeah, thank you. Thank you again for your time. Of course. Thank you, Nathan. My pleasure. Hey, guys. I hope you enjoyed this interview. As you might already know, our mission at Foundr is to help tens of millions of people every single week with our content either start or grow their business, which is exactly why we're partnering with world-class founders such as Damon John, Alexa Von Tobel, Greta Van Riel, and so many more to teach crucial skills such as negotiation, finance, e-commerce, and so much more.

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