549: How Popflex Became Taylor Swift's Favourite Clothing Brand | Cassey Ho [VIDEO]

0:01Hey founder fam, I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with OmniSend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e-commerce founders. We've been recommending OmniSend to founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling to seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results. Did you know on average, OmniSend customers make$68 for every$1 they spend, which is an insanely good return on investment. And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50 % off your first three months with the code founder50.

0:39Just head to omnisend.com forward slash founder without the E to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. When you get to such a rock bottom point and you think everything's over, you just have to crawl out one more time. I was about to quit everything. I felt I wasn't a good CEO. I wasn't a good designer. I wasn't a good creator. I had lost my backbone and I had lost trust in myself. All I can do is be ahead. These new ideas, these new inventions, they're right here in my head. They can follow me, but they can't lead me. Make sure that this thing that you're putting out into the world is different than the other things that already exist.

1:20I feel so grateful that I get to live this life that wasn't supposed to be.

1:27hear the stories learn the proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship welcome to the founder podcast with nathan chan well uh kassie thank you so much for joining us here today as i shared uh we connected well well well back in the day before. Like you had a big following through Blogilates, but you weren't really building these two incredible e-commerce empires. You've built this massive fitness empire. So I guess the first question I wanted to ask is how did you get started? How did you get into this space around Blogilates? How did you start on your journey as a creator and an entrepreneur and founder?

2:12All right. I'm going to take you through a windy path. It's not straight, Right. But essentially, I started Blogilates back in 2009, and it was not meant to be what it is today. It really was just me, a Pilates instructor who just graduated from college with a degree in biology. And I was moving from the West Coast to the East Coast. And my 40 students at the gym were like, Cassie, who's going to teach us pop Pilates? Because at the time, nobody was teaching that. It was Pilates to pop music, very dancey on the mat. And so I recorded this 10 minute video, uploaded it to a website called YouTube, and it was met for the 40 people.

2:53But turns out, there were thousands of views and hundreds of comments, and it began this online fitness community. And at the time, I didn't know really that this was going to turn into a brand. I didn't know really what fans were, even how to make money from ad campaigns. None of that was a thing back then, it really began with the intention to serve my students. And what's really interesting is that today I still do the same thing with the clothing and the products that I design. But anyway, so starting in 2009, and I at the time was also designing a yoga bag because I could not find a stylish way to take my yoga mat, my CDs, my shoes and everything to in front of the gym.

3:37And so I went to downtown LA, I got some scrap fabrics and put together something really glamorous looking. I'm always for beautiful romantic designs. So I made something for myself. And then I brought it to class and people were like, what's that? I want one. And that's how the product journey began. And so side by side, the Blogilates YouTube channel growing and then also the product development behind the scenes, which started with a yoga bag but then turned into graphic tees that said, like, train and scene or remain the same. And, you know, and these designs were also chosen by the fans on the Facebook fan page.

4:14It's always been so – this feedback between me and the fans, this trustworthiness we have between each other, it's always been like that from the beginning. If they want something, I do it. And we really rely on one, we really rely on each other to grow. So anyway, the product development began happening in the background as Blogilates, the fitness channel, began to grow in the foreground. And what ended up happening, and I'm jumping all over the place now, is that after posting fitness videos and workout videos for over a decade, it was just a few years ago when I wanted to show a different side of myself.

4:51and I wanted to show people what I was doing behind the scenes. And it wasn't just making workout routines. It was literally making the graphic designs for these shirts, these yoga mats, these bottles, and literally getting into the tech packs and creating the designs for the clothes. And once I changed my content from fitness to fashion, like that was an inflection point. Like that changed our business for PopFlex. Um, and here I am today, uh, with, you know, Taylor Swift having worn the score earlier this year, which is insane. My literal dream. I didn't even know that this was possible. And then now blog a lot is a brand at target.

5:32Like it's just, it's wild, but it all goes back to making sure you are serving your audience and these magical things just happen. Yeah. And you did things kind of early, early days. like you look at a lot of creators like Mr. Beast or like Logan Paul and KSI where they've built these massive audiences or communities and personal brands and then they've launched products but you've been doing this for a long long long time you're kind of one of the one of the early adopters but I think it's came from not just an opportunity but you always wanted to be a designer You were always quite entrepreneurial from the early days.

6:12So I'm curious, what steps would you give to people watching this that want to build a strong brand present from scratch, want to build a community? It is really important that you do everything with purpose and with intention. If you are looking to build a product, make sure you are solving a problem. Make sure that this thing that you're putting out into the world is different than the other things that already exist. There has to be a reason for it to be. And if you're looking to build a community, you have to be okay being very transparent with them. If something good is happening, obviously tell them.

6:48If something bad is happening, tell them too. And if you make a mistake, be ready to say sorry and apologize for what you've done. I think that very truthful line of communication is something that's extremely hard to build. And it comes with the good and the bad. You're going to get the good and the bad with it. But if you are a real person and not just a faceless brand, like that is how you build this community. It's the trust. What's also interesting about you is Cassie is Blogilates, but then PopFlex is still you, but it's more of its own brand. Can you talk us through the thinking there? Because you could have just kept building out the Blogilates brand, right?

7:34So talk us through why did you start PopFlex? How did that transition? You could have ran it all through Blogilates. No, yeah, that's very true. I mean, to be completely honest, I wanted to wear a brand that wasn't my screen name. That's why he came up with PopFlex. And so that's how that came to be. Interestingly enough, though, Blogilates ended up becoming a brand at Target because that was a very connected thing between brand, person, and product. And so Target wanted to make sure that it was Blogilates that was the brand there. So it's wild that it started. Yes, Cassie Ho is Blogilates, which is honestly, I think it is confusing to a lot of people who don't understand the entire journey.

8:22And then it became PopFlex. And then now it's back to Target and it's both. And so I think this navigating how there are two different brands and how they're different is something that I'm going to have to begin to explain a little bit more. But for the most part, Popflex is the performance-based activewear. That's how it began. And Blogilates is more of the fitness-based equipment product at Target that is more affordably priced. So talk us through your first year with Popflex because that was like starting a brand from scratch, right? Yes, that was starting a brand from scratch. um in the beginning people were very excited and they had thoughts of okay you should expand the size range and do this and that and because I am someone who really listens to them I I forgot what the range originally was I oh you know what it didn't include proper plus size so in the second and third time that we launched I wanted to include include plus size but that is when things started going down because I do not have an education in technical design um and I did not truly understand how the body changes proportionately as the sizes get bigger.

9:28And I launched plus size, but it just wasn't fitting quite well. So that was a little bit weird. And then I went back, was working with different technical designers trying to figure out, okay, like let's fix this. And then the next one, the fit was like a little bit too loose, just like across the board. Then I did another launch and everything was a little bit too tight. And like, honestly, I think it was like a few years into PopFlex, we had lost trust with the community. And these are people who were just really supporting me, supporting the journey, and just felt like I'm not going to spend money on this because I don't know what I'm going to get.

10:02And like, that's very valid and fair. But it got to a point where I was about to quit everything. And it wasn't just the fit that was throwing everything off. I would say it was toxicity within the team, toxicity online where people were just dragging me for different things, dragging me for the way that I looked in my fitness videos. And just like all around, the energy was really, really negative. But the wild thing is when you get to such a rock bottom point and you think everything's over, you just have to crawl out one more time, really fight it one more time. And at this, I remember in this moment, I wanted to quit blogilates.

10:44I wanted to throw away Popplex. just end everything. I felt like I wasn't a good CEO. I wasn't a good designer. I wasn't a good creator. I had lost my backbone and I had lost trust in myself. But my husband, who's also my business partner, he told me, Cassie, just give it 30 more days. And I really didn't want to. I was having panic attacks. Couldn't even walk into our own office without my breathing becoming irregular. like it was bad in yeah I mean yeah it was bad and so um 30 days he said just give it 30 days and it was within that 30 day period when magical things began to happen like the people who needed to leave left um I found a new manufacturer that I really understood my designs and how to help me work through these fit problems that we're having.

11:33And like that point right there of trying to survive and just save the business and save myself really, because without me knowing what I stand for and without me feeling confident, there's really nothing left. Right. So, um, that point really was an inflection point for the business. And over the course of the next like few years, poplex began to gain all that trust back that we had lost um and that's interesting too because that's talking about poplex the product not blogilates the brand or cassie ho so it was it's always two things that i'm i'm trying to i don't know like grow at the same time be at the same time and because poplex and blogilates are so intertwined um i don't know i that's why i feel like i i am the brand the brand is me but now there are also two and so things i'm just trying to figure out yeah yeah so it's a journey so can i'd love to kind of delve deeper um because a lot of people would just assume as a creator if you have such a large following like yourself like you have a massive massive following tens and tens of millions of followers across all different social platforms most people would think that it's just easy and you know i i i've done my research on you like you you've sold out like all product in like an hour type scenario most people would think oh well it's just easy um when you said that you had to save the business was the business under financial strain or it was more you and and kind of your own self-belief and all the all the all the difficulties that you difficulties that you were facing that perhaps made you thought you perhaps you give up?

13:18I mean, it begins with me not having faith in myself and all the things that are happening around me. When you feel like you're not supported by the right team, it just really feels impossible. And then you begin to just think you're not meant for this. So that was the first thing I needed to say, which was myself. But of course, at the same time, if we're seeing sales go down, we're losing trust with customers, returns are going up. Like, yeah, the business was also financially like going down. So everything was going down. So that's, so this survival moment was really about me and the business all intertwined into one.

13:55Cause it's really one of the same sometimes. Yeah. And when it comes to kind of, I guess the manufacturing piece, that's something that's really intimidating for people. You said you found a new manufacturer. How did you, I'm less concerned around how you found the first one, but how did you find this new one? What did you do? You know, this one, see, this is why I say that this 30-day period, somehow magic things happen because I got an email. If I'm being completely honest, I just got a random email from a manufacturer and normally I ignore these things. I get so many of them. But of course, I'm like in this vulnerable, desperate place.

14:33So I just like, I actually threw together something that wasn't like a typical tech pack. I was like, okay, like just sketching, blah, blah, blah. here you go. Like, let's just see what you can do. And the first samples that came back were actually really good. And I was like, oh, okay, we might have something here. So that was really by chance. But before that, I was looking for manufacturers, like anywhere going on Alibaba.com, like just writing like a ton of people just trying to figure things out. The thing with manufacturers is you don't you don't know who you're gonna get. And before there was the Alibaba, I had traveled to China to go to the Canton Fair to try to find a manufacturer.

15:10There's like, A lot of ways to do it, but you never know the quality or the relationship you're going to build until you are in the thick of it. And so it's important to really test out a bunch of different people in the beginning as well through the sampling process. So if you could highlight, I guess, when it comes to starting a new brand, what would be the top three priorities when it comes to starting a brand from the ground up? What would they be? So number one, your product has to have a reason to be. Like, why are you making this? Don't just make something that already exists. Really add value to the world by making something new.

15:48So that's number one. Number two, you have to build trust with your community. If you're going to say that you say you're going to do something, literally do it. And number three, listen. really listen to what the community wants because they feel so seen so heard and also really grateful um when you do listen to them and deliver on that product i really think like those three things have created such a tight-knit relationship between me and the customers and the fan base over the past i mean if we begin even with blogilates in 2009 it's always been like that um in the beginning, maybe it wasn't a product like a new sports bra, but like it was a product of a specific workout that people wanted.

16:40They wanted something new and different as Pilates to pop music. And then the trust was built through them doing the workouts and getting the results and also having a good time while doing it. And then the third thing was listening to them. Anytime they said that they wanted something, I would actually do it. And so those same three things, no matter of what I'm doing, I'm always making sure that my audience feels heard. Yeah. And when it comes to PopFlex as well, you guys are known for unique designs, functional designs. Can you walk us through your creative process for designing pieces that are stylish, versatile, but also unique?

17:17Because that's a common thing that people face when they want to start an e-commerce brand. There's so many competitors out there. It can be quite intimidating. You look at these other brands you look at these other creators like how have you been able to create products that stand out and are different so everything really just starts with how i'm feeling like to be completely honest if i like something i'm just going to go for it um however a lot of times i think the more concrete answer here is also if i have a specific problem then i'm going to solve it for myself so it starts there and luckily for me because i am also uh like the demographic of our customer and the fan base my problems are also their problems too and so when i am able to talk about this it's very very relatable um what was your original question again oh how yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah creating products that stand out products that are different yes yes okay so it starts with solving a problem but for me you can't just solve the problem you gotta solve the problem make it cute.

18:20This is essential for me. And so I think that just comes from my personal aesthetic, what I like. My style is very romantic and feminine. And so when you add that on top of all the function, it just creates this magical, and saying it's magical so many times in this interview, but just creates this like amazing intersection that weirdly you don't find too much out there because there's the fashion that, you know, really stops you in your tracks and They're like, ooh, that looks like art, but then it doesn't have pockets. And then you have the stuff that looks really functional, but then it literally looks like it is only function.

18:55So marrying those two together is something that I personally value a lot. And it seems like a lot of other women value as well. Yeah. And I guess for new brand owners that are looking to enter a space that is, I guess, pretty saturated would you say to start building your personal brand first or start building the product first because your personal brand is a big part of how you've been able to stand out in the marketplace because you have such a strong relationship and such a incredibly large and loyal community i think it's about building the product first because if you even think about me starting Blogalyze in 2009.

19:42The product was the workout video. They got to know me and my personal brand through my instruction and through my teaching. So that naturally happened along the way as I was blogging more talking about my life and just cooking with them and stuff like that. But you have to start with providing some type of value to your audience. I think that's where it begins. Are you hesitating to take the next step in your e-commerce journey? Founder Plus has you covered. With proven frameworks tailored to your business needs for fast results, a supportive community of over 30 ,000 like-minded entrepreneurs, and weekly live mentorship sessions, Founder Plus is your key to success.

20:19Try Founder Plus today for just$1 for seven days and start building your dream business with confidence. You can visit founder.com forward slash start dollar trial or click the link in the description to claim your trial. and when it comes to I guess um balancing aesthetic appeal versus like also with performance that can be challenging in active wear how do you navigate that balance and are there any lessons that you could share around prioritizing functionality I mean it all goes back to solving the problem like even today when we are designing a product which by the way can take anywhere from one to two years or longer from the moment you sketch it, I sketch it all the way to it being on the website.

21:06If there isn't a clear why behind the product, it doesn't move forward. And I really honestly didn't realize this until I began making content for my products, I think around pandemic time, something like that. I think that's when I switched from fitness videos to fashion videos and I noticed that the videos that not only went viral because they were entertaining which by the way I didn't realize that these uh videos talking about my products actually sold until it started happening um it was entertaining it went viral and also it would sell out the products within hours it was insane and so now I know that what makes a successful video um also makes a successful product.

21:52It's these talking points. It's the why behind the design. So that's the most important for me. Yeah, that's really interesting. I'd love you to unpack that a little more. So you, you, she started to make a switch with your content and there was probably a little bit more of a straight through line to then, you know, if you've like going off and purchasing the product, because that's, that's the main focal point of the video. Um, but you've created a lot of videos now that have gone viral um and and you said that like you started to work out you know how to focus on the product and the why and then the the you know then products would sell out really really quickly um i you know i can hear my audience tapping me on the show saying nathan you've got to ask her like how does she do that like what is there any lessons that you can share around these short form videos that you do create or even long form longer form videos yeah um i'm gonna take it a step back real quick because i think it's important for people to know why i switch from fitness to fashion because that is a kind of a weird thing to do now even though i had been designing this entire time it's beginning in 2009 in the background i had never made it the forefront of my content because people wanted the workouts and you know they still do it's been a few years since I've done that.

23:12But the truth is mentally, I was no longer feeling challenged with the workout videos. And just me, my personality is I constantly want to be challenged and growing. And I just felt like after like thousands of videos showing people how to do a double leg lift, like I, I was kind of done. And at the same time, a lot of body shaming videos about my body being attacked online, I just was really over that at the moment. So I was like, I need a hiatus from the workout industry, the fitness industry. And I'm going to go show this other part of myself that really makes me happy and brings a lot of joy to me.

23:49And so it was so cool that when I posted one of my first videos talking about the science behind fashion, I think it was talking about why does camel toe happen? It actually went very viral. And that wasn't even selling anything. I was just talking about leggings in general. And then I began to formulate it into like product by product. Now, what has what I've now learned after a few years of doing that is that it takes a lot of time to make one of these videos. So it may seem like an easy 60 second video. Okay, guess how much time you think it takes me to make one of those? I don't even know if you want to guess.

24:28Maybe I should just tell you. oh okay not that that it takes me 10 hours for 60 seconds and I edit all my own videos I film all my own videos um I don't even write the voiceover I honestly edit the entire thing and then I'll voice over at the end and so 10 hours for one of these and I do it all by myself because I spend up to two years on one product in every single fitting and it feels like my baby So by the time I release it to the public, I want to be the one to tell its story. And so that's why I do that. Now, is this a sustainable way to live for me? Absolutely not. I don't sleep. So I need to figure out how to make that work.

25:10But I really do find so much joy in the development journey and also in presenting it to the world. But yeah, content takes a lot of time, especially when you really care about the product that you're trying to release. And for me, like, it's so fun to create some of these things and in some cases invent things. I now have a few patents under my belt that it's just like so cool to be able to introduce these new things into the world and tell people the why behind it. Because I've noticed that sometimes, for example, on the Poplex page, if we release something super new and I haven't talked about it yet, I will notice some comments where people are like, ew, what is that?

25:49Why did you make that? And then because I'm still in the process of editing my video, it goes up like two days later, three days later. And then all of a sudden the product sells out because people are like, oh, okay, I get it now. So people love to know the why behind the design. If they're not used to something, I can understand a barrier to want to purchase. But I think people are very open to understanding as well. What is the through line, right? Like each of these product videos that you do do, do you have a formula? Is there something formulaic that you could share? And then also what is that process of creating that video?

26:25What are you doing over that 10-hour period? Yeah. So what I come to learn is, especially with TikTok now, you got to start off with a hook. I'm sure you've heard this a million times. But my hook is something that's very relatable to the person. It begins with the problem or even me acting out what the problem is, right? Like, you know, you're doing a squat, but your underwear is showing. Okay, very relatable. You're pulling up your pants, but now you get a camel toe. Very relatable. So starting off with that shot really gets people to be like, oh yeah, yeah, I get you. And then what I do is I show all the features that are in this product, but I don't reveal the product until towards the ends that people are watching most of the way through.

27:07And it kind of like just builds up excitement and anticipation. And then I reveal it. And that is pretty much the 60 second video. it sounds simple but the thing is I don't I don't write scripts and this is just me I'm not saying I recommend this for other people but because I am the designer and also I guess the marketer of the products on my page there is a marketing team for the Poplex page I'm just talking about the Blattie's page everything is just in my head and so what I love to do I just do my hair makeup I go start filming. So I end up with a lot of footage. And then my, I guess what you would call the, what is it called?

27:49The, the usually people, oh, storyboard. My storyboard actually just begins happening as I'm cutting the footage and I'm just mixing it back and forth. It's kind of crazy, but I just do it on my phone on like in shot or cap cut. I'm laying on the couch and I just am going like finger here and there cut cut cut cut cut and that just takes a really long time so i would say filming can take anywhere between like let's say filming is like three hours editing probably like six hours or something like that depending how difficult this is oh and the sketch the sketch sometimes can take 30 to 40 minutes um and then the voiceover is probably like another 30 minutes but then there's adding in the the words on top the captions then writing the caption and then uploading it, oh my God, uploading it to Klip Tok, IG Reels, YouTube Shorts, Facebook Reels.

28:39Like it's just so insane, but you have to do it because it's different on different people on different platforms. But lucky for me, I'm so lucky that I can post the same video on all of those platforms. And generally, if it does well on one, it does well on the others. However, I will say TikTok for the past year has been really dodgy. You don't know what you're going get. And IG has been a lot more consistent. YouTube shorts, also a lot more consistent. And Facebook, I just post there. But what's really going on on Facebook? Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That's a great breakdown. Thank you. And I think there's some, like, I know you say, like, you know, you've probably heard this a million times around the hook, but these basics are often forgotten for many, many, many, many people.