563: From $500 to 120 Stores - How She Lost It All | Kristina Karlsson

38:15He was also in EO and he was also a retailer, Danny from Blue Illusion. And when he passed away, he was in my entrepreneurs forum and it was just so hard. And I put his photo on my vision board to remember to never take life for granted and to really appreciate whatever I need to go through. So when I went into this administration, I thought of Danny and I thought he would do anything just to be here. So that's kind of kept me going. And then I thought, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I can do it again. What else can I do? And during the time in the last couple of years in the business in Kiki Cave, my passion went from design, which always was the drive to start with, to really much more interest in the content that we created.

39:06So the goals journals, the gratitude journals, all the workshops that we created. and I started a podcast and I wrote a book that has now sold over 100 million not 100 million sorry 100 ,000 copies but that's incredible because I just had this idea that I was going to write a book and then then you know I you know I'm not I never saw myself as a writer or an author but it's just incredible what you can do when you put your mind to it and it's been extraordinary to now start again but with only taking the things that I really love because as you know my I started my business when I was 22 so now I'm much older a little bit wiser and and I just want to have a really small business now a global business we're already global but smaller more manageable where I'm in complete control and you find as your business grows you it becomes bloated and yeah It becomes this constant thing that you have to kind of manage.

40:13Now you've got that foresight and opportunity to kind of go, I'm going again. How would I do it? How would I rewrite everything? And now with, you know, the introduction even to AI and agents, like I was talking to a guy this morning who's like looking to work, he can build agents for so many different things. Like it's insane. It's amazing. You don't need a big team. No. And in the way AI, like it's just incredible what you can do now compared to what I did. And, you know, so for anyone listening, when you think about starting a business, a lot of people say it's really hard now because it's so crowded, because the barrier to entry is not as hard.

40:54But saying that, the knowledge, like I had to learn everything from other people or from reading. Now you can just get it in a few seconds. It's just unbelievable. It's such an exciting time to be alive. I agree. I agree. And you know what? I really appreciate you sharing your story about your friend passing away because I've actually, unfortunately, had one of my best friends pass away. um so we went to kindergarten primary school high school university and traveled all around europe together and um unfortunately yes we we grew up together and unfortunately he died of cancer and you know i still have his photo up on my desk and like sometimes you know i go through hard times and i said i've even written messages my mom like you know this is really hard right now but i think of aaron like he would have given anything to be in my position And I think that's such an incredible perspective that you have around any challenge, no matter how hard it is.

41:58So I'd just love to explore that a little more. Like a lot of businesses do fail. A lot of founders give up. A lot of businesses don't pass that one year or five year mark. Now, there's various reasons to that. There's, you know, choosing the right product, just coming up with a product idea that you haven't validated and you create something that nobody wants. you're not good at marketing right you can't get people to find you um i'm curious like do you believe besides all of those things the number one thing is just this this mindset the ability to just have that grit to keep going yeah and to find a way i think it's like you know that don't say no say how served us so well it was really annoying for our employees i hated it because they like we got no and then i was like no let's find a different way and let's keep going and and i think this is where it comes in so so as you said we you you need a great product or a great business like that's just a like that's just a foundation otherwise you know it doesn't matter what your mindset is so that's just like a given but once you have that it's about that ability to to just keep going when it's hard and just go one more time when when you just think you can't go any further and I think that's when the passion comes in because I I always talk about the importance of, and there's a lot of different views on this, but in my view, if you're not passionate about your business and your product, when you have to go that last time, when you think you don't have more within you, you don't think you can do it any further.

43:34If you're not passionate about that product, it's just, you just don't have that. And I remember, I remember a lot of my friends living here in Melbourne went to the races and um and uh you know i'm any you know i'm an extrovert in in the business but i'm really an introvert in terms of of i love spending time on my own i love creating products i love i love my work and my business so much so i could easily spend a whole weekend just working and i remember my friends were going to the races and you know it was always hard to get the best passes and we them and yeah and then we got all of that and then I was like I'm actually gonna stay home and tidy up our warehouse and they're like what and and I was like I just love it I just got me that way of thinking and you know I loved catching up on orders that we didn't have time to do on the Friday and all those kind of things and it was a passion and I remember also having our first private equity and uh i remember them coming in and we were signing the deal and they came with like i don't know six people then it was just me and paul there i was like how much is this meeting cost anyway and i remember just about to sign and i just heard the door downstairs and i just thought excuse me for a second and our new samples came in and it was new erasers and pencils really simple you know stuff and notebooks and i just got so excited i was showing the team and we opened the boxes and we're all so passionate about it and they're like oh my gosh she's about to sign you know the deal that she's never done before and she's worried about the pencils and the erasers but I just said to them that's why you're investing in us right because we are so passionate about the product we're so passionate about the customer and we love this and I think that is the foundation that anyone starting the business you you definitely want to make money because otherwise you won't survive and you definitely want to live a good life and that nothing nothing takes away from that but the most important is to have a product or a service that you absolutely love that whatever happens you you are so passionate that you know nothing else that really matters and that's what I felt like we had and also another thing that I think made us stand out and not going under in the first year or the fifth year was that having that amazing vision so I'm a big visionary I dreamt big I wanted to be in every favorite city in the world of mine and I even put clocks up with all the time zones excuse me we even put clocks up for all the time zones to remember that's where we're going from all our favorite cities and And we had a vision to be a global business and we had it on the wall.

46:39So every time someone came up to meet with us, we showed them our vision, you know, to be a global business and to really, you know, have something. Kiki K in every stylish life was kind of our vision in terms of having products that were really useful and inspirational in people's lives. and we took our investors there, we took suppliers there, we took employees there and we always had this amazing vision. We might have been really at the beginning stages, but we had this vision and the vision kept us moving forward in the hard times and also when we got too many opportunities because once we got established, we could have done a million things and we probably did too many things in hindsight, but it kept us going and it kept us really focused on this is where we're going and this is where everyone needs to focus on when we have all the ups and downs but also the shiny old objects on the side that often came along.

47:45Yeah, I want to switch gears a little because our audience and community, they have challenges around manufacturing, finding the product. Talking about Dream Life, right, as a new brand. Yes. You know, you have a massive unfair advantage because you've been doing this for many decades but how would somebody go about like creating a stationary brand there are a lot out there um you know you also have an unfair advantage you come from a swedish background swedish are incredible designers you know that's what they do best you look like i've interviewed some other swedes around product and you guys no one does product like like you guys so so talk me through like how could somebody approach it how did you approach dream life like what was the moq How did you find the manufacturers?

48:30You go back to your old one. Talk me through some of the details there. The most exciting thing is that since we started in the beginning, the manufacturing was the old-fashioned way. And now we have completely done it in a different way. So we used to sit with millions of dollars in stock. And that's amazing if you are having a good year, but also really stressful if you're not having a good year or if you have the wrong products in the wrong country etc so i didn't want to be in that situation again i didn't want to take on investors starting again so we have now developed a new software and this is why it's so exciting to start a business in today's world versus when i started the first business because we have we now print on demand so that wasn't possible you know 20 years ago and it's amazing what you can do now So the Dream Life store, which is an online business where we have journals.

49:31We just done a collaboration with Breast Cancer Network Australia, BCNA. And we used to have people coming in, going through a tough time, diagnosed with cancer, depression, going through divorce, lost someone. and people often came to us because I think we were a place that people loved to come to in terms of making them feel a bit better but most people came for a journal because when you go through a difficult time journaling is really powerful and we can talk more about that later but that never never I never I never forgot that so when I started again I was like I really need to do journals because I journal every day I journal every morning it's really how I I feel like I never really got burnt out because I never really had things in my head we can talk more about that but so I am I I thought we just have to do journals again so we developed this software where we can print on demand and the most amazing thing with that is that also in a retail store and even online you can only do so many products you only have so much cash to put into products but also you can only put it, you know, there's not, you know, unless you have a massive store, there's not space for everything.

50:51When you print on demand, you can have as many designs as you possibly want. And we used to discuss colors for months because we needed to get it right. We needed to not make something new, but not too dissimilar from last year if it was a success. So it was a real um debate all the time about the products and now i can have 300 different pinks if i want to and that's an incredible um incredible uh way of doing business compared to what we did and so we now print on demand obviously the margins is um is lower but we don't sit with stock if we create something that's not selling it's not the end of the world and it's just it's just so amazing so for anyone who wants to start something there's different ways of doing it now and I also believe that if you want to go the traditional way in terms of creating it in China because obviously the margin is much higher and you know if you don't want to make a whole store worth that might be an option to do and it's just so easy to find manufacturers now the way I'm finding manufacturers is really like with any relationship work with towards a win-win and find people who have similar values to you.

52:08I wanted to work with people who were authentic, who put quality first. And, you know, we were super picky when it came to quality. We certainly had our issues and we certainly picked some wrong ones, but that's how we learned to really focusing on good quality. And, you know, the manufacturers in the beginning hated me because I used to go and just say we need to redo this, we need to perfect this. But, you know, that's how we became a quality brand. So today's world, you can do so much. There's just, there's no, and also you don't have to choose one way or the other. You can try different ways.

52:49And with AI and with, you know, the open sourcing now, like it's just so easy. Yeah, I agree. So, you know, can I just add to that? Because manufacturing is not the problem. It's now creating a brand. So I think that one you can get help with AI, but you have to put in what makes you unique and makes you special and makes it different to what is out there. Yeah, that's funny. You took the words out of my mouth because it's easier than ever to start a business now. But what you have to get right is your brand. And you've done an exceptional job with Kiki K. what are the key principles if you could nail it down to like three or five what are the three things that you've taken now that you're putting into dream life and how you build a brand and how did you build the key brand yeah so you know number one passion passion for the product passion for the design passion for the brand and living and breathing the the brand I've seen so many brands talking you know I'm into health and well-being and in health and well-being there's a lot of money to be made but there's a lot of shortcuts and I'm I want to work and buy the real thing that people are authentic and really want to to create a brand that is no shortcuts because you can create supplements with so many not great things in it and I I've seen that so many times so the passion for product and being authentic and being real and living and breathing the brand.

54:26We only created products that I wanted to use and products that I thought was useful and inspiring. So creating a brand, it's not just about decide something and then put it out there. It's about living and breathing it, using it, perfecting it and doing new versions. We got copied a lot by the big box retailers, frustrating. But then instead of fighting that, we were just like what else can we do we kept us on our toes newness fresh freshness by but also keeping the foundation there and you know for us it was all about being Swedish and Swedish design keeping those principles you know did we always get it right absolutely not but learning every time we didn't and you know now I have the designer that I started with she's still with me but in our new brand so keeping that is really that's authentically me swedish design but more than that is the content what i'm coaching what i am sharing is all in our journals now because that is what i believe and breathe and i i you know i talk a lot about creating a morning ritual because when you start your morning it doesn't matter how your day goes because at least you start every day in a beautiful way the way you want to do that so you know i have a morning ritual journal and I talk about journaling all the time because it was so helpful for me.

55:53So I'm not just creating journals and selling them. And it's funny because I often, I don't know how many times I've been interviewed about work-life balance because I never had a burnout and I worked a lot and we, you know, we had, we started from nothing, grew it to a big business. and I think we turned over 650 million in the time that we were around. So from nothing to that. So with that came a lot of stress, a lot of hard work, a lot of trouble being in six countries, also raised two capable kids along the way. So it's been a journey that had a lot happening and every time a journalist came and asked how you manage your work-life balance.

56:41I always said, the first thing I said, what really helps me is journaling. And people always said that I, people always thought that I said that because I was selling journals. And I said, no, I am selling journals because they are so helpful for me. And I'm not just selling them, I use them. And I think that's the difference between creating a business that you are just putting it out there because you want to have a business versus if you create something that you need and you're solving a problem for yourself you're much more likely to use them perfect them change them as you change and that's how I how we started and that's how I continue on in the dream life store now it's just um and you know another thing that is so amazing in today's world is like we used to probably take between six and eight months from having an idea into stores sometimes longer now i can have an idea today after today's podcast i can call the designer and i can say hey i think we should do this that could be up by end of today and you could have it next week that is so exciting and so fun and felt impossible 20 years ago and that's possible now so you know for anyone listening starting a business is such an exciting time but you know authenticity being real using it you know really spending that time on your brand is probably the most important i have to ask about your journaling process yes so i've journaled over the years actually funnily enough since i started founder yeah um and maybe there's a book in there one day and i've been journaling now for over 10 years um but what's your process right obviously just like like because for some people they just say that's not me yeah you know what i mean i hear that all the time there you go so what would you say to those people and then what is your process because it is quite a therapeutic exercise and i i believe in it massively yeah and i i want to start with there's no right and wrong there's no specific method there's a million different ways the way i do it is uh is i start my morning by three morning pages and it came from the book The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron.

59:00It's a book about creativity, so you actually don't have to read the book if that's not of interest. But what I really got out of that book was her morning pages that I started doing when I started Kiki K. And what it is is basically you take a notebook, any kind of notebook, because I actually don't save them. So you don't have to have a fancy notebook for this one. but you can obviously save them and look back and look for patterns but I've done it for so long so I actually do my three morning pages and then I throw it away because what I do on those morning pages so this is the first thing that I do after my meditation in the morning I just download whatever comes to mind so that could be a challenge that I'm facing a problem that I'm trying to solve frustrating things that I'm dealing with maybe you know something annoying with the family or the kids or what's happening in the world.

59:56Or it could be, I'm so excited about this potential. I'm going to journal about it and think on paper. The way I really use my journals now, like I carry my journal wherever I go. This is not my morning pages journal. This is my insight journal. So when I do the morning pages that I don't save, I always have a few insights. There might be an idea for a podcast. It might be idea for a book or a journal or, you know, a talk that i wanted to like even you know speaking to you this morning i was like oh i need to contact io again to get more speaking so just just i always write it down and i use technology as well so i combined it so the way i journal in so the morning pages is just something that i do every morning when i say every morning i'm human like everyone else i miss it but very rarely because it's part of my habits now i i i get up and i i meditate and then i do my journaling and then i go for a walk that's kind of my three things or a run uh that's kind of the three things that i do most mornings and it's just come part of my life daily non-negotiables yeah i love it and then um in out of those morning pages i then put some insights into my journal and i write everything down so for if i have a meeting i write it down and i have the same kind of categories that i have in my notebook bullet journaling is an amazing book to read if anyone wants to kind of get into journaling in different categories they don't call it like that but you know we have created bullet journals for years but I've never really understood that there's a whole system around it it was first I thought when we started at creating them at Kiki K it was all about making the pages pretty and beautiful but once I read his book he's been on my podcast as well the guy who started that bullet journaling I was like this is an amazing way of journaling and so I have kind of adapted that to my own way and so I use categories in my digital devices the same as I do in my journal and I love journaling about what I just experienced so this morning for example I took some notes from the retreat that I run yesterday because there were some things that I want to do differently there's some things that I just love that I want to remember and there's some learnings that I wanted to incorporate and some new things I want to incorporate into the next retreat that we're doing.

1:02:16So I constantly take notes. I used to be really frustrated if I went to a meeting and people didn't come with a notebook. Obviously, some people prefer devices now, but there's a lot of research about the handwriting, creating better or new pathways in your brain. So there's a lot of benefits of journaling, but the thing that I come back to that has been the most beneficial is never being burned out. Because those three pages in the morning, I put anything that is bothering me, instead of winching and complaining, I put it on paper and I just throw it away. So it's like emptying your head and your body and it just gives you that kind of space to then think about.

1:03:03new potentials new ideas yeah i've actually heard of this just kind of like thinking of yeah your journal is a place to shed right like yeah yeah um so you put anything that's on your mind deepest darkest secrets as well anything anything so i actually write so no one can actually read it oh so that's something i developed because i so if i if i brought that journal somewhere and I forgot it I didn't want because sometimes sometimes you just want to journal about something that's bothering you or something you're dealing with that you don't want the whole world to know about and they don't need to know about it because that's just something that you're going through yourself so I write so no one can read it so we're really well known or I'm well known for my Kiki K handwriting because we used to teach that in our stores so you would think that I would do that but not in my morning pages I just write so no one can read it so you can kind of train yourself to do that and then obviously in my normal notebook I can read everything and but I wouldn't be worried about that just throw it away or burn it if you have a fireplace burn it or if you have a shredder or just put it into bin in the end of the day it's no one really you know we all go through challenging times we all go through you know our ups and downs our darkest times and you know dealing with challenges in our work businesses relationships families friends you know what's happening in the world right now there's a lot of things that um people would have an opinion on but in the end of the day it's your journey and you make the decision what's important to you and and if you write like that then no one can read it but even if they could read it it's your life so i'm going to ask you a random question you've got a journal here on the table you reminded me back to i did an interview a long time ago with the founder of headspace you know that app incredible meditation app and i said yeah so i said to andy i said man um i gotta ask you to do a meditation would you be able to read something from your book from your journal yeah sure let's go what do you got in there so i i am i put an index at the front so i can uh refer to it so i probably go through a book like this a month okay and i love it so So just to explain a little bit, if anyone is interested in journals, I love wire binding.

1:05:34We also do book binding, but I love wire binding for everyday writing so you can actually put it flat. So I have an index at the front. So these are, if you go to the Dream Life store and you do the plain journals, we have lots of guided journals like goals and whatever, but I love the plain ones and I love the bullet ones because I like my own kind of handwriting. writing so I create my own index because I have the same categories all the time so the way I think and the way they operate is and use as my little headings is you know my podcast my coaching so anytime I have an idea I put it under that so let's just go to I should explain also I'm such a visual person so i have a digital um i have a digital laptop diary like everyone else and the zoom and all that kind of stuff but i'm a visual person so i like to put in and this is just handwritten we sell diaries as well but i actually create my own little diary yes and these are all things that are big things so i don't put in in this kind of layout i don't put in things like particularly what I'm doing all day today.

1:06:50But Melbourne will be in here. Your podcast will be in here. Things that is unusual. So the trips, the birthdays, I've got all my speaking. Because when I get a lot of phone calls or emails about can you speak in August next year, then I will quickly want to just go and look at that to see. because sometimes in the digital world, it gets lost and you can't see the whole thing. So I use this, but I also use a whole world planner where I put all my speaking because if I'm speaking in Dubai, I want to make sure that when I don't book something like the day before, if I can't, if I'm traveling that day, et cetera.

1:07:35So it's just really helpful since I'm such a visual person. And then the way I, I'm just going to show you something that would be

1:07:47so coaching program like I have million ideas about my coaching program so that's kind of the heading here it will be on the index I've got admin Friday so anything that I need to do today during my admin time so for example I then I have solo podcast I have anything about what what is my life in here and then I time block so so for example um uh between I work in 90 minute block and then I will let's just say that my time block is podcast for my own podcast if I have that I will then go into my journal and my phone because I have the same categories on my phone and my email system then I'll go in and just say okay what do I need to do on the podcast today so I would have a schedule like you would so for example most of my April ones will be or I will have thought of that but then I was like what do I need to do in this 90 minutes on podcasts and I might have some new ideas that I thought about on the plane that I write down or there might be an email about someone who wants to come on the show that is you know relevant for me right now right here so it's a really good way of time blocking and then combining my journal but also my digital devices.

1:09:06So I think the same way digitally as I do with my journal. Yeah, wow. That's a quite comprehensive system. I know. But that's, you know, I run, in my coaching program, I have, we plan the quarter. So first we plan the year in January and then every quarter we plan the quarter as if it's a mini year. Because what I've found over the years is that we're really excited in January or December about the new year and we have all the plans and then life happens and business happens and we go sidetrack. And then come October, November, we're like, oh gosh, we haven't done what we thought we would do. Mostly we plan quarterly in business, but personally we often let our own things go.

1:09:46So now I plan the quarter before. So we have just planned in the coaching program, it's March now, and we just planned the quarter too, which starts 1st of April. So I then just look at what do I want to achieve in this year? What do I want to achieve this year? And how can I break that down in the next quarter? And I just focus on the quarter. Obviously, I get things, requests from speaking in December, et cetera. Yes. So obviously, that comes in. But I focus only on my top three for the quarter to make sure that they happen. And for me, they are around, obviously, my business, but also, you know, my health and well-being and my family as well.

1:10:30Yeah. Well, look, thank you for sharing. I knew I was opening up a can worse, but it was that comprehensive. So that was really helpful. You know, it's an interesting one because this is living and breathing the brand, right? Yeah. I'm just not saying how I'm using the journal coming with the plain journal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is what I'm talking about. You use it and that's why like, oh, we need to change this because of this. This is a plain one. But then, you know, I know people need some prompts, for example. I hear people all the time saying I can't journal. Yeah, put pen to page. Yeah.

1:11:06So then a plain journal like this will be perhaps overwhelming. So then I've done an AM, PM. So you can have morning prompts, night prompts. One of my favorite journals is called Daily Wins. So every night you can write down three wins and three things you're grateful for. And then you plan the wins for tomorrow. That's good. Last night, I planned to do a really good podcast with you today. Oh, there you go. I think we're doing it. Yeah, I think we're getting this win. Okay, all right. Well, look, I can see now the mindset piece, right? You've turned it into somewhat of a habitual system through your journals.

1:11:44Yeah. Right? Yeah. Okay, well, look, we have to work towards wrapping up, Christiana. This has been fantastic. You've been so open, honest, vulnerable. You've shared some incredible stories. What's something that you wanted to come here today to share that perhaps you haven't shared before? Something that people don't talk about enough as a founder or anything that I didn't ask you that you want to answer? So for anyone starting a business or in a business that are listening, the number one thing that really made us go global is dreaming. So when we start a business, it's almost impossible to think globally straight away because you haven't even got started in your own market or having a product that's out there.

1:12:35So thinking really big is difficult. And most of us are really good at setting goals if you're an entrepreneur or do a bit of a strategic plan or a business plan. And that's all great, but I think dreaming should come before that. And when I say dreaming, some people roll their eyes and they think it's a bit fluffy, but dreaming is thinking outside the square, thinking about stuff that you want to do, a business you want to create or something you want to achieve personally without knowing how to do it. So the way of doing that is to ask yourself, what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?

1:13:17So many of us are scared of failing. I'm so good at it now. Some does not face me anymore. But most of us are really scared of failing, worried about what other people are thinking. You know, if we fail, you know, media, all that kind of stuff that comes with that. But what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? And another question to ask yourself before you're goal setting and before you do some goal setting, before you do some planning is to ask yourself, what would I do if I had all the skills, the resources and the knowledge, the time and the money to do whatever I want in my one precious life and business?

1:13:56What would I do? Even if you have no idea how to make it happen, because most of us don't feel we have enough time. Most of us don't feel we have enough resources, skills. And because of that, we don't actually push ourselves. I had no idea how to open a retail store. I had no idea how to find manufacturers, design, I had no idea about anything. And I feel the reason why I got to what we got to, obviously not just me, but the dream to start with was a vision that I set really early. And then I got all these incredible people to help me make it happen. But before you have that, you need to dream and set a really clear vision.

1:14:37And that is what makes it so exciting being an entrepreneur because it's up to you to set that vision. but if you just start with strategic planning you often just stretch yourself where you are you might want to turn over more money or make a better profit margin or whatever whatever that is for you but when you put your normal life and normal business aside and ask yourself what would you what would I do if I knew I couldn't fail and what would I do if I had all the resources and the skills and knowledge health well-being time money to do whatever I want in my life what would I do when you do that some really exciting things comes out because when you do planning you often think about what's realistic and in my opinion that's a little bit boring because we get to that anyway but thinking outside the square dreaming big is so fun in your business but also in your personal life and it's amazing what we can make happen if we're getting clear on what we want and starting to share it outside and, you know, on podcasts.

1:15:40So one of my dreams is to do 104 talks this year. And I'm sharing that because you never know who might need a speaker. You never know who might know someone who knows someone. And the 104, I don't really care if I do 104. I will never put myself as a bad achiever if I don't. You won't beat yourself up. No. I treat myself with kindness and I think if I can, I know that I'll easily get 30 in a year because that's, that's, I know that's possible. 104, unlikely, but how about if I reach somewhere between 104 and 30 that I think I would get? That's amazing, right? So when you dream big and you share it, it feels, it's, it's exciting, but it's also a bit scary.

1:16:31because a lot of people have opinion you know even when I said that I was going to open my first interview with the H I think was I said that I was going to open 40 stores but we just opened one and when I drove home I felt sick I was like I'm going to open 40 stores you know Paul only had one store to one house to sell and I was like how am I going to do this and by sharing that you know I had some people had an opinion there's no way you're going to do that that gave me that excitement to show them and the other thing is that i had some people saying how can i help you make that happen so sharing is really really powerful dreaming is really really powerful even if you have no idea how to make it happen amazing well look christina thank you so much for your time uh this has been incredible interview thank you again thank you so much for having me hey guys if you love this episode make sure to check out my interview with Trini Woodall on how she built a diehard community of followers backing her every single move with Trini London.

1:17:32The true beauty of our community is that there's a passion and we inspire a passion for them to make the most themselves but that community itself fosters you know lifting up women.