567: The Tiny Challenge Model - The Easiest Way to Get Your First 5 Clients | Richmond Dinh

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0:39Just head to omnisend.com forward slash founder without the E to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. Hear the stories, learn the proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the founder podcast with Nathan Chan. Hey guys, Nathan Chan here. Welcome back to another episode of the Founder Podcast. Today we're joined by Richmond Din. He's come down all the way from Sydney. This is his third trip to Melbourne here in the studio to talk about everything, selling coaching services, getting more clients, launching a digital product business is the absolute master of teaching people how to launch digital products how to just get more clients but then also how to do challenges and he's got this incredible model called the tiny challenge model i think it's game changing and if you want to launch a digital product business you're going to learn a lot so tell me like how did you get into selling digital products online like and doing coaching and consulting and services so this is a pretty hot space now and there's a lot of people coming into this space there's a lot of people that want to know how to get clients they want to know how to sell their their services or their digital products but how did you get your start you're right like it's a really hot space because it's so easy to get into the lower barrier entry but it's not the reason why i got in as you know like being an agent you said become a doctor a dentist an optometrist a pharmacist a lawyer or a failure and i don't think well no offense if you're an optometrist watching this but i don't think many people say when I grow up I want to be an optometrist like that's a kind of weird profession to want to become and but I was that for 10 years because I was pleasing my parents and doing the the good boy thing the cultural thing but I always knew that it was something more for me and I just didn't know what it was and then I started getting life coaching and going to Tony Robbins and stuff and I realized maybe this is what I want to do maybe I just want to help help people you know discover their purpose and all that so I fell into the whole digital space through that avenue because I just did not want to become an optometrist anymore and I think most people watching this will be like well maybe they're going through a change or a season in their life but they're not sure what the next step is they just know this is not their calling and I just went on this mission eight years ago to try to find what my pathway was and there's a lot more to that story because I remember you telling me and like you were down to your last dollar so tell me about that yeah this is a good one thank you think I've ever told this story publicly like this before actually so I did all the right things went to uni valedictorian high school ducks got one of the top of marks in in optometry because of what that I could get became a self-made millionaire in my 20s or 12 properties did really well and then you know when you when you don't have a purpose for money money has no purpose I didn't have a purpose for money and so what was gonna do with all my money so I became reckless with it in the sense that I thought well this didn't really fulfill me and the next three properties I bought I bought high-risk mining town properties because I just thought well because I could have cashed in at one point I could have cashed in and done really well and thought why if I cash in then what because I didn't have any purpose for money and so I bought three mining town properties and then within six to twelve months the whole industry collapsed which means the properties collapsed I had 1.4 million dollars in debt that couldn't be serviced because they weren't getting rented and suddenly that leverage led to me almost going bankrupt when I say almost gone very well I was actually seeking bankruptcy so I was gonna go to I was seeing insolvency practitioners going to bankruptcy lawyers seeking all my options and I had$50 ,000 cash in my bank and when you go bankrupt you're gonna they're gonna take it all and so what do you do when you're about to go bankrupt and you've got 50k cash well you can't buy a car because they have to sell the car you can't buy an asset because they'll sell the asset and I'm I wasn't like I don't gamble like I don't I'm gonna get a Las Vegas and you know you know what I mean and I'm not like I'm gonna spend it all like I got drugs or like that wasn't me so I decided to spend it the first the first five thousand I decided to spend it on Tony Robbins like okay well may as well just learn about myself I don't know and I remember walking out of that event and I bought the upsell which was a$15 ,000 program.

5:15Well, I've got to spend my 50 ,000. And then that led me down the road of, hang on a sec, maybe this is not my destiny of going bankrupt. I started to find the belief that I could get out of any hole that I put myself into. And then I started reading books on people who were down to their last dollar and got out of it. And then I realized that bankruptcy was me just giving in and then I got live coaching and I invested another coach was$25 ,000 and basically my whole 50 ,000 invested in myself and the byproduct of that was believing that I could get my way out and that after that whole year process at the end I said I'm not going bankrupt I'm gonna find my way out of this and how I got out was leverage got me in that mess and the only way was get out was leverage but I basically built up the belief that could get out by starting a business because I was I was paying$60 ,000 every year negative to the properties I couldn't service and I was only earning $120 ,000 a year and I had a family and so it was only a problem because I wasn't earning enough see and I thought that was the biggest distinction if my properties were only costing me say$3 ,000 a year I'm earning 120 I wouldn't care I'll just still be an optometrist but it's all relative like that debt was only a problem because I wasn't earning enough and I thought the way to get out of this is just to earn a million dollars a year and it sounds simple but actually that is a smart idea so I could go bankrupt and still be on $120 ,000 income as an optometrist or could find a way to earn a million dollars a year where the$60 ,000 wouldn't even matter anymore and that's kind of what I did that's why I went into business and entrepreneur and got into coaching so yeah i did spend all my last dollar myself yeah that's crazy so i'd just love to delve a little deeper on that story so in your 20s you were buying investment properties like how did you work all that piece out self-learning self-learning i didn't invest in mentorship i bought i bought this book called seven steps to wealth from john fitzgerald that was my first book back then there were info infomercials you know yes and he was the guy I kind of read a bit of his book and I just kind of understood the philosophies of you know the Australian property market buy 10 years later doubles draw the equity out like it was simple maths to me yes and so it felt simple but obviously there's more to the game because I made a lot of mistakes yes yeah yes yes so um so you were still an optometrist and you were just doing that on the side yeah it was my way to get out yeah because I didn't know what wanted to do but I knew I didn't want to be optometrist my life so I had to figure out a way to create income to to do something but it's funny when I got there I didn't know what I was gonna do with it that's the problem money doesn't have a purpose if you don't have a purpose for money and so and I'd had no purpose for money and so I got there and I didn't know what to do it so I just did the dumb stuff with it by this three mining town properties didn't cash in didn't have a plan and didn't have a purpose didn't know what I was gonna do in my life so i knew that was a bad thing to do intuitively but i just thought well what else i'm going to do with my money let's just give it let's just roll the dice and see where it takes me you know so that was that was the situation yeah okay so eventually you got into the coaching space and you start to get into the digital product space and uh you you uh quote unquote have a was it six Pete, seven Pete?

8:53You watch the training, yeah. Michael Jordan's six championship rings. Who's that NFL player? He's got seven. Tom Brady. Tom Brady. He's got seven. I don't think anyone in this is going to, we've got an eight Pete now, an eight Pete. So since then, eight years ago, we've launched eight courses and every single course has been successful. When I say successful, it's made six figures or more And some have made multiple seven figures. So we've never launched a course since I started that has failed. And that came from the very first course I launched, which was called Bamboo Life Coaching. And that made like$495 ,000 from just life coaching.

9:33And then we had my passion for it. So we've just, I don't know, at this point, probably wouldn't call it luck. But at the time, I probably were like, oh, that's pretty good. Let's try it again. Let's try it again. So that's where the AP comes from. Yeah, yeah. It's something you always remember, right? So it's really clever. So obviously you have a process, right? And for many people watching or listening to this, it seems like a really lucrative space, right? And it's massive. You see, you know, school, you see WAP, you see Kajabi, you see all these different platforms teaching how you can make money online by selling a digital product.

10:10You make 100 % margin. It's mainly profit. but obviously pros and cons to every business model, right? But talk me through kind of what does it take to launch a successful course? Because usually in these businesses, you have to be a personality, right? You have to have an audience. You have to have a following, right? So talk me through that. And you've come up with a model that allows people to bridge that gap that you don't have to be a super well-known personal brand or have a huge following to generate or to make, you know, $5 ,000,$10 ,000,$15 ,000,$20 ,000, like to generate a decent income from selling a course or selling a coaching program or all these things that are right.

10:54So talk me through that. Yeah, good. This is a great question. And it's really to get yourself out of the vanity metrics. Of course, everyone feels good when they have a million followers and it feels good when they're semi-famous or it feels good when, you know, they're around cool people and those are the metrics. but those don't really necessarily make you money. We all know someone that's got a million followers, but they're broke, you know, and vice versa, someone's got 10 ,000 followers, but they're crushing it. So getting out of the vanity matrix, number one, but this, I guess it stemmed from my first mentor, Scott Harris, he said, like, Richmond, if you can count more than close friends on one hand, then you've got too many friends.

11:33You only need five exceptionally close friends. and who you spend time with you become and I thought wow that's so powerful because I used to grow up thinking I want to be Mr. Popular I used to envy people who had 100 friends 200 friends I used to envy people who have a birthday and they got 300 people there and my birthday has only got six or seven people but then I soon realized and and I know as you grow up like five really close type friends the power of that is 100 a thousand times a million times more powerful than having a hundred acquaintances or a hundred people who don't really know who you are and when I realized that the strengths are in the quality of small relationships that you have and I call this your loyal 100 when it comes to coaching you can build a million dollar business by just having a small amount of raving fan clients who just buy anything because they trust you so much and they're on the journey with you and this is how we develop the tiny challenge model based on the concept of you can go big by just starting tiny and I would rather have 5, 10, 15, 20 clients who would just vouch for you until the day you retire or the day you die rather than a million people who think you're kind of okay.

12:44You know what I mean? So how'd you come up with this and talk me through how it works? Yeah and this is like so we were helping our students you know get clients online and we were teaching like what I was doing because I was doing group challenges and all that and someone were getting results someone learned and for me the number one thing in business because I think you ask like what's the most important business is being obsessed with your client results like client result obsession will drive everything and so to get clients online you can run a webinar you can run a master class you can run a virtual event you can run a workshop you can do a podcast you can do so many things but when you're starting all those things are overwhelming because it requires setup skill connections are following speaking leads marketing sales all those things to do and when you're starting out number one you don't have those skills and number two it's very overwhelming on which one to do and if you do it you're not going to do it well so it flops so I asked myself like what's the fundamental most basic thing a beginner coach can do to make money online, which does not require those skills at all.

13:57And at the time, everyone was kind of doing group challenges, you know, 20, 30, 50, 100 people. I know you got thousands in yours, which is crazy. But to a beginner, that's very hard. And I thought, well, what if they just did a one-on-one challenge with them and one other person? That would mean they don't have to market it. They don't have to fill up a room. They don't have to worry about the tech. they can just do it on their phone if they're not good with zoom they don't have to worry about the skill of speaking because they only speak to one person they don't even have to worry about selling much because reciprocity is so high and that does a selling they don't even have to be super clear on the niche on the messaging because they can just get clear on it through that anyway and it just removes all the stress and all the overwhelm from getting started and that's how what is called a tiny challenge was born just through the simplicity of let's just start small and have a strong raving fan base and go from there.

14:50And that's what was created out of that a couple of years ago. Yeah. So if somebody wants to get their first five clients, you recommend the tiny challenge model. Yeah. It is the easiest, simplest way to get started. You don't need a big list. So let's just say you put a, you know, you just ask five people that you may know or put a post out or something like that. And they say, yeah, I'll do a one-on-one five-day challenge with you. One-on-one, one-on-one. 30-minute calls. That could be 45 minutes. One-on-one. For free? For free. Or you charge? No, for free. I would recommend for free because you can charge, but then you've got to go through the whole process of there justifying what they're paying for.

15:29Remember, nobody knows who you are. You're just starting out. It's one-on-one for free. And I know why people want to charge though, because it's like, what if I get a tire kicker? What if I get a time waster? And I'll give you an analogy. So in the personal training space, like most personal trainers you go to a gym and they give out a free 30-minute discovery session like a free 30-minute training session if you love it at the end they pitch you yeah 10 sessions for 700 bucks yep that's the model and they'll probably need to give out 10 free sessions to sell one package to sell a 700 program yeah imagine the personal trainer gave out a five-day one-on-one challenge at the gym to one person rather than just a free 30-minute session right now at the end of those five days that personal trainer is going to know everything about that person what they have they tried we have they found what are they willing to do or not willing to do what are their diets like what's the environment what are they what how do they like to train are they a morning person night person what's their biology like the goals the aspirations everything about them at the end of those five days they've been held accountable but they get this one thing but then I get from one session they get progress and for the first time they got progress that they never got before from a five-day one-on-one challenge with the accountability at the end of that that personal trainer can pitch them a two three four thousand dollar program for 12 months they hit their goals if they're a woman I just want to fit in that dress again that I had before kids because since I had kids I could never fit into that dress again boom Mary in 12 months time I can get you there through what we've done today how does it sound two and a half thousand dollars three thousand dollars and I'm all in because you know everything about them there will be no more broke personal trainers but to what we're talking about time wasters if someone approached you at the gym and said would you like to do a five-day one-on-one challenge for me I'm not doing it unless I'm ready to get my ass beaten up that way you know I'm saying Like it's like, do I really want this?

17:32Yeah. It's like that for a five day, like, you know, mindset challenge or confidence challenge or whatever challenge it is to do it one on one. It takes like, whoa, like that's so you actually weed out all the time wastes. There's no one going to your five day tiny challenge to waste your time because it's like, I'm not going to do a five day fitness challenge. If I didn't want to sweat that week, I, you know, I'm going to be up for it. And you'd feel guilty. Yeah. Well, yeah, of course. Yeah. yeah the reciprocity is so high because it's so tailored and when you're starting out the the biggest lack of clarity you have is I don't even know what I'm really teaching I'm not really showing their pain points and I actually don't really know what they want and they tell you everything they want on call number one that's part of the framework and then you know how to craft the days for them and you know how to craft an offer exactly exactly to what they want and if you did that five times you're gonna get three people that buy if the conversions are so high because you're tailoring the experience and let's just say you got ten people doing a tiny challenge and you convert three four five people and you got a$3 ,000 program that is your first$15 ,000 online and you never need to learn how to speak never need to learn the tech you did not have to have a big list you didn't have to have a brand you didn't have to be clean your niche or your messaging you didn't have to do a launch what day should I start it's convenient you just start anytime any day you agree on the five calls because there's no sort of launch what about christmas what about easter what about long weekend all that kind of stuff the flexibility is huge and so this is what you help people implement one of many things and i think it's a such a clever model because i can see all the barriers where people get stuck right you've got to start a podcast you like get all these different things you've got to build an audience but the way that you do it it could be just friends of friends, right?

19:22Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or even you still post and if you've got one person that liked it, there you go, you got your first tiny challenge. Like, you know, if you got a hundred likes on a post, you'll be overwhelmed because it's potentially like, now I've got a lot of people that actually want to do this. Where do I even start? So that's a good problem, but you don't need that problem. So if we just rewind a second for anyone that's watching this or, or listening, thinking about starting a business in the digital product space but they don't know what topic or they don't feel confident enough to coach or teach they don't feel like an expert like what like because that that's a common thing yeah 100 100 yeah so they don't feel like an expert they don't feel confident that the only way to get clear on what you want to teach is actually go out there and just teach it so for example i think most people starting out have maybe an idea of what they might want to do so they may be like you know i'm a corporate woman I could coach corporate women.

20:18I'm also a single mom. I could do that. I'm also like a victim of abuse. I could do that as well. Like I'm just, I could do all of them. Oh, you know what? Like, um, I come from an Asian background. I could coach like Asian moms. I'm not sure. And so they've got like three, four, five options. And the awesome thing about running a tiny challenge is that you just pick one from every avatar, run a tiny challenge to each of them. There's no risk because you're not doing a big launch. You're not doing a marketing ad campaign where you think of your message right and guarantee after doing three or four different avatars you will know which one you want to coach it's so safe it's so risk-free you can get started and at the end of the day like I mean you're giving out five calls one-on-one for free and even if you're not super clear and confident what you're doing you get the feedback from the first person and you might get a testimonial and you'll learn something about yourself through that process there's no a risk-free way to do it?

21:15Because imagine doing it to 10 people. That's scary, but one person, it's all good. And what about this industry? Let's talk to that because one thing I love about you is that you work this out, tiny challenges from the obsession of client results. But unfortunately in this space, there's a lot of scrupulous individuals. It has a bad name. like even even for fans like we have a coaching program and you know we have a lot of skeptics we have a lot of people that come through us and they've been burnt and like yeah it's easy for people to get started like it is not it's really tough i'd love to hear your take on all of that yeah and and that obsession with client results like a lot of people unfortunately don't have that that's yeah well well yeah i know i'm optimistic i like to think they would do but you're right They don't.

22:10They just, they, and we've all, we've all been scammed before, like pay money and then suddenly there's no deliverables or it's not what I expected or whatever it is. Right? So we've all been there before. I think, I know this might sound weird saying this. I think it's a good thing that, you know, the industry has a bad name because there's so many unethical people about it because that means it doesn't take much to succeed. If you have integrity and you're obsessed about client results, you are guaranteed or I say guaranteed you know with a caveat but you are almost guaranteed succeed because you are so different from everybody else whereas if everybody was obsessed with client results yes the industry would have a good name but then it'll be harder for you to succeed because everybody's obsessed so I think it's a good thing that you know for anyone watching this they're thinking oh my gosh like it's such a bad name but if if you really just have integrity with that and have that as your primary focus and have this long-term approach then you're going to crush it yeah so look it's really rewarding coaching somebody and then helping them grow and helping them succeed and i personally don't do any one-on-one coaching um i did in the early days founder funnily enough i remember when i was just getting started with the magazine people used to hit me up more than they do now funnily enough or no i don't know look a lot of people hit me up now but like yeah i i did do some coaching um just for fun and pay the bills and it was more a little bit of consulting and stuff so it's a really good side income as well and there's a lot of platforms now that you can go to like um there's one that um i'm on that i just signed up for recently got accepted intro i'm just checking that out have you seen that or a lot a lot of famous founders like you you know the founder of reddit as an example he's on there and uh you can you know do calls with him regularly for like a couple of thousand dollars an hour type thing like but um like like it is a thing right like more than ever people uh do coaching consulting and things on the side but the number one thing i find if you is either you know your skill you don't know your skill and how you're going to help people but if you do then it's how to get clients exactly yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah so um i want to move to the next piece of the puzzle for you is how do you scale right like that's yeah like okay so we clear the time basically yeah yeah yeah like how do you scale how do you scale a coaching business because you see a lot of people doing it you see all this stuff with the with the lamborghinis all that kind of stuff but like how do you do it the authentic real legitimate way yes so and i just around a three-day event and I introduced this concept called the loyal 100 like your goal I believe to remove the stress and overwhelm if you set a goal to build out your loyal 100 like Russell Brunson talks about the dream 100 which is like the dream network I talk about your loyal 100 which is your dream 100 clients your first 100 clients that would just they're rating fans they do anything for you they vouch for you they're your best testimonials the best people to work with go go to build your loyal 100 that's number one but that's so people think of scaling as this is a big thing but if you have 100 people paying you 10 000 a year you're on a million dollars and you're on a very very good life you're on a very very good life you have margins too yeah huge huge huge there's not much operational stuff involved with that so so typically what sort of margins would you want to run at yeah at a million dollars you'd be on running 80 margins easy yep okay yeah especially through tiny challenge like for sure because you're not you don't have to do paid marketing or anything you don't have to have big stuff going on yep okay all right so you want to find a hundred loyal clients yep how do you do that like like what what does that take like okay how do you make how do you how do you get clients to be so loyal obviously besides getting them results like yeah yeah yeah cool so journey to a thousand miles begins with one step so it always starts with one one one client and the best way to get a client that becomes a raving fan from day one is what you've done with them before they paid you money people always give you their time before they give you their money and there's two things to that how much time have they given you but then how much quality time have they also experienced with you and in a tiny challenge they get both they've given you time but it's been quality time because it's one-on-one and there is no bigger baked in rating fan method before the transaction then that so that's your first lawyer 100 and you just do that 100 times and before you know it it is really easy, really quick.

27:05And you still haven't learned how to do the tech. And you still haven't learned how to do all those things and big list and stuff. And they'll be raving fans for forever. Okay. So can you manage though 100 clients just yourself? Probably not. Not all you can, but can you manage it well? No. So if people are parents, having one child is, difficult having to get a bit easier when they start you know when they're like three and four like you know the first couple of years always but then everybody knows because I got three daughters the third one after the age of three it's passive parenting you don't parent anymore after three like because they just all play with each other so if you got great values great culture great leadership and um and provided your kids get along you know but generally in kids don't always get along because they don't have to but in a in a coaching program like it's all unified they're all the same problem so it actually gets easier to manage at a certain point it's harder to manage three or four clients because they're all like single child yes but once you get to 10 12 15 20 that becomes super easy especially 30 because now culturally they're all kind of starting to look up and someone posted a question in the Facebook group it's like you didn't have to answer it because someone just jumped in and answered it for you because you got three or four people there's not many people to jump in and answer it you know I mean and so for me like we've got in our you know in a circle like almost 200 people now but I really have to answer a question and if I do want to answer a question I don't even get it quick enough because there's so many people just wanting to jump in and help so it's not as hard managing 100 people as you think but you do like you do want to have tiers of leadership you want to have people in the community who are you know great stewards of yours and they're just like they're just people that they go to points and like the school captains or prefects that kind of stuff so that's how you start to build it out yep okay and then talk to me around i guess group coaching versus one-on-one yeah well you can't scale one-on-one coaching right yeah unless you have other coaches yeah unless ah yes that's correct yes 100 um yes you can unless you have other coaches and that builds complications because then they're a coach like you and people just want you and all that kind of stuff so there are two ways to scale one-on-one coaching is either have other coaches doing it for you or to go to group coaching now the pros and cons of each um i mean we all know one-on-one coaching gives you the deepest transformation and so i thought okay what happens after tiny challenge like it's not scalable you're doing one-on-one coaching five days and then you sell them a program which probably involves some one-on-one coaching so how do you scale it so what i did last year was i ran a tiny challenge one-on-one but i got permission from the person sitting in the hot seat said hey look would it be okay if I had five or six people just come in the same zoom room and watch me coach you one-on-one and they all had the same problem and so by me solving that problem to that person being hot seated it solved the problem for everyone else in the room except I wasn't coaching them it wasn't group coaching they were just observing me sitting in what I call a shadow seat to watch me coach them one-on-one now the cool thing about that is they get the transformation they get the value but when i do the offer presentation at the end i'm not just offering it to one person i'm offering it to whoever is sitting in the shadow seat and so that's how you scale one-on-one coaching with the same benefits of one-on-one coaching yes and then your program would be group then it would be a hybrid yes it would be a hybrid okay got you got you so um i guess another piece of the puzzle is the operations and all of that stuff that starts to come to life um for you now what does your team look like yeah yeah you got a business partner tony that's right yep yeah we got 17 on our team now yep okay touch wood since we hired our first person seven years ago no one's left do you haven't had one person leave zero i thought that was you know I thought that was normal Wow like zero team churn like I had no reference I didn't know I honestly did not know and I would say about six people in our team they actually came is it Richmond I want to work for you so I didn't even how did you hide that person I don't know they came to me you know they sent me a dm saying i'm looking for work you know so we haven't had anyone leave and i'm trying to reverse engineer that you know i don't know if i've now what it takes to build a team um what roles what like wait like as you start to scale what what kind of roles yeah talk me through that right the first one is you need a pa like you need a personal assistant that's doing your social this is the basic admin stuff that kind of wears 100 hats yep and um and then they may transition to ea like that's that's the first step and we thank goodness to covert we realized that a lot of jobs can be done virtually with the same competency like I was also blown away by everyone working remotely that we still achieve the same results and it made me and after COVID it made me realize I'm hiring everything offshore now so most of our team is from the Philippines now We do have people in South America and stuff.

32:47And like our marketing manager, she's a beast. And should I say, no, I won't say how much she gets back. But it's like significantly less. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's all offshore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Remote teams and the power of it. There's pros and cons though. Yes, that's correct. There's pros and cons around time zone, how fast you can move, building that culture all those bits and pieces that come as well that's right yeah um i believe you can build culture virtually i used to not believe that and that used to be my limiting belief but i really do believe you can build culture virtually i i even also believe that you can run virtual events that are better than live events yeah which is what we've been like for me personally i've stopped doing live events because our virtual is a better a varied experience really so you don't do any in-person events only we did our last one a couple of months ago yeah we said live our virtuals we have really nailed it to create an immersive experience where they lose a sense of time and the community is nuts and it's just crazy like it's everyone feels like they're there with you everyone gets a front row seat yeah okay wow that's crazy so what do i rewind it for a second you're not much of a content guy why is that yeah well i do like Like, maybe I just don't know better.

34:11You know, I think it's ignorance, to be honest. Like, if you just... I think if I just spent more time with you, I'd be a content guy. Like, you know what I mean? So, yeah. Maybe I just didn't have someone in my top five that's like all content, content. Yeah, so it's probably ignorance, I'd say. It's not because I choose not to do it. But you've been able to build a sizable business, make a sizable impact without having to create a lot of content. Yeah. However, you see most people that have a personal brand that do coaching, consulting, digital products, those kinds of businesses that they have a large following.

34:48Yeah. Like I only post three times a week on one platform. And I remember yesterday, you were like, I was posting 15 times a day. Yeah. Back in the day for founder. Yeah. Yeah. I post 15 times a month. so yeah maybe i'm completely ignorant to the whole item i'm not sure yeah so how have you grown from a from a traffic is it partnerships is it paid quality quality relationships like that yeah for me like i i don't need 100 leads i just need five leads that have built so much trust before they bought and and then the conversion becomes easy like for me i'm all about numbers in quality and strength and building your lower 100 or having your top five friends like that kind of stuff i think that's more powerful kind of like the movie 300 you know um man like just 300 strong will destroy a whole army yes you know so that's that's i think the future is focusing on quality not quantity quantity is going to be very hard game to win now quality is a game that you can win and you can get started right now yeah so like that's something i've definitely noticed since us meeting and just hearing about your business how everything works and how you help others is you have a really really really strong passion and sense on client fulfillment and results and really making sure that that happens but if you could put it down to some frameworks for people what what how does that look like like what does that look like because i think it's one thing to say okay this is what i'm going to teach it's one thing to say this is what i'm going to teach or coach or help people with it's another thing to say uh okay i'm going to run it something like a tiny challenge model but how well talk to me around the delivery right because people get caught up on that delivery and it doesn't it doesn't also mean you have to do 101 things like you give 101 often when you come yeah you keep you go into this game like i'll give them this and this and this i'll give this person this this this and this this and it overwhelms people yeah yeah so talk me through that this is the more is a great question i think this is going to help a lot of people in every industry when it comes to communication and teaching delivery for whatever industry you're in so like um in maths right so you had the term lowest common denominator in maths so if you've got the number 20 like 20 can be split up between 1 2 4 5 10 and 20 like those are the common round number denominators of 20 what's the lowest common denominator of 20 or obviously one but every one is in everything so what's the next one it's two so two is the lowest common denominator in the number 20 you look at the number nine what's the lowest common denominator number nine three is exclude one and so every so you got a result that you want to deliver right the result is like the number 20 the result is like the number 50 or the results like number 158 what's the lowest common denominator in that result that you're generating for them teach them that they learn that then they learn the next lowest common denominator and before you know when they understand the lowest common denominator is all made up from this big thing they can master that big thing easily that's how tiny challenge came about because i asked what is the lowest common denominator and it's a one lower than this and how do you know they're not getting results from the lowest common that you think it is there's a step lower than that it's a lowest common denominator so it's a principle of simplicity yes yeah so it's all about the quick wins yeah like well yeah quick wins in a sense like not so much like quick rich wins but it's like what's the least friction step that i can take that's going to move me forward yes now yes yeah it's like the the least friction step that i can take yes so that's i think a problem that a lot of people do make in this space they're really good at marketing but then that person you know gets the program comes into the you know in some way shape or form group coaching one-on-one what whatever it is or a course and then they then you just got like a two hour long video.

39:06Yeah. And just go do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's actually not helpful. No. No. No. So the way that you do your teaching is around micro steps. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. A hundred percent. And understanding that really the big thing is all based on mastering three or four of the little things. They're just putting Lego blocks together. Yes. That's it. understanding that one unit lego block and then that big result is just putting five of them together yes and we can do one you can do five yeah i love that because that's exactly what we do at founder like all of our programs all of our courses uh our lessons um are no longer usually maximum absolute maximum around 10 minutes and it's like one specific thing that you're going to take and we break down the modules by outcomes yeah so if you look at you know starting your e-commerce brand the first piece of the puzzle is coming up with your idea then the first lesson is how to find your idea then the second lesson is how to validate again and we just go through step by step and yeah yeah and there's always an action item so the way that we teach it is like the what then the what if then the why and then the how and then the action item yeah and to your point like a lot of people think if they overcomplicate it it makes them look smart like if they make it too simple i look i look like an idiot like is that simple uh like we had a conversation last night and some of the things you were dropping was like yes that simple it's like is that that simple yes it is that simple yeah yeah i agree okay all right so we have to work towards wrapping up we covered a lot of ground like anybody watching this listening to this that want to start a business in the online education coaching consulting space you've got a lot that you can take away is there any questions that you wanted me to ask you that i haven't asked you well that's a that's a that's a great question um okay but maybe maybe some core beliefs that i think would be useful for anyone watching uh this is when you're starting out like in this space like what were some core beliefs or fundamentalists that would help you succeed more in life or business is I say this like, Mark Twain said that two most important days of your life, the day you're born and the day you find out why.

41:31And so how do you find your purpose? Understand the three who's, the three who's. Number one, you need to get clarity on who are you here to serve? Who are you here to serve? Are you here to serve? What kind of clients? That's kind of your avatar. Maybe maybe your small family your tribe a huge serve when you get clear on that that's one third of the way to finding your purpose second third is now who do you want to become so who do you want to become in this world and Then you that's two thirds of the way there But then the third who is the most important which is the belief parties who am I going to run with in this life?

42:06Who am I running with and that's proximity and you and I both Tony Robbins fans and he always talks about proximity but you must believe that the most important decision you're going to make in your whole life is who you spend time with because who you spend time with determines on who you become determines on who you're called to serve and how many more people you can reach like even me being on this podcast is i know there's going to be so many people watching this that could not have heard about this if i wasn't on this podcast with you and so that allows more reach to who you serve and so who you spend time with is the most important thing and if you believe that's the most important thing in life you'll be way more successful than anything that you ever do because it dictates everything in your future your current state your values your beliefs culture your success your health your relationships everything in your life is dictated by the five people you spend most time with period and so that is my core belief I call it the eighth wonder this invisible force that governs everything that you cannot you cannot determine because it's your environment and I even say like when you know if you were to cut my hand and my blood poured out and you test my blood type it'll be eighth wonder like it's that that's how much i believe it and that's that's how my life really changed because i just up leveled my peer group simple but it's it's everything yeah i agree i think when i've had the most you know with a business and work and career or personal relationships when i've had the most amount of growth it's been you know really forcing myself to learn from other people that I might not or hang out with people like that.

43:40That extreme growth comes from that. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, and it's not comfortable sometimes. You don't feel like, do I deserve to be here? Yeah, and being vulnerable to put yourself in a place where you don't know the answers or it's not working. Yeah, that's not easy. Not easy, not easy. Just being the best student is how I've got through those. Like, okay, I'm around these super successful people, but if I just come in there being the best student mindset, then I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. Awesome. So you recently launched a book. Where's the best place people can find out more about Tiny Challenges?

44:17Tiny Challenge. Yeah, I know. It's over there. Hey, tinychallengebook.com. Tinychallengebook.com. It shows you on how to run a successful Tiny Challenge, whether you're in the real estate niche, the personal training niche, the expert niche is actually getting people buying this book from all different niches and that I didn't make for, but they're crushing in that niche. So tinychallengebook.com. Awesome. So yeah, look, creator space is not going to slow down. And I know there's a lot of people out there creating content and they're looking to monetize. They're looking to do coaching courses, launch a course, launch a program or consulting.

44:55I highly recommend checking out Richmond's Way. So thank you so much, Richmond. Really appreciate your time, man, coming down. Appreciate you, Nathan. All right. So if you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Alex Homozi on how he scales companies from zero straight to$2 million a month in less than a year. People were like, how have you achieved? You achieved it like there's five years of my life that disappeared. In fact, I lost all the money, which I talk about in the book. I had all the gyms, I did the turnarounds, and then I had zero dollars five years later because of mistakes that I made.

45:27But the things that I was gaining was not the money, it was the skills, it was the character traits and the beliefs.