569: The Email Expert - How to Get Your Customers Attention

0:01Hey founder fam, I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with OmniSend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e-commerce founders. We've been recommending OmniSend to founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling to seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results. Did you know on average, OmniSend customers make$68 for every$1 they spend, which is an insanely good return on investment. And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50 % off your first three months with the code founder50.

0:39Just head to omnisend.com forward slash founder without the E to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. So 2 to 3 % of your website traffic actually converts. 97, 98 % lose this traffic and usually you pay for the traffic. You pay for Matter, you pay for Google. Where should they focus first? always have to convert into subscribers. Two or three percent convert directly, another two or three percent that you would convert into your subscribers. You double the amount of your visitors that leave you a second chance to convert them a little bit later. Today's guest is Rides Loras, co-founder of Omnisend.

1:17We go to email and SMS platform for e-commerce brands with over 125 ,000 customers worldwide. For every dollar you spend, how much should your return on investment be? $40 for$1 spent. Last year, we generated$68 back for every dollar spent. It's a big impact. Last year, we generated more than$2 billion for our customers.

1:43Hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder Podcast with Nathan Chan.

1:57retus thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me you're dialing in all the way from lithuania thanks for inviting really great to be here really great to talk to you so uh i have no doubt so it will be an interesting conversation with you as you are you guys are experts in e-commerce and business in general as well so really looking forward yeah so thank you for taking the time man uh look you've got this incredible platform i want to talk about your background so you started in political science and then you moved to sass um you know you started your first business at 14 what pulled you into the world of entrepreneurship and how did those early experiences help you build omnisend you're well informed yeah so formerly i kind of uh i have graduated political science but never never worked in in that area and you know my first business touch was like you know probably the first lesson that i learned so don't say no for the opportunities once they arise so this is my the first business was not my idea and i just joined as a smaller co-founder so basically my friend of mine just made me call and said look i have an idea what do you think about us starting a business and i said oh that that sounds really great you know I'm going to be a businessman.

3:16Maybe I will become rich, you know, being young, etc. And it was not like actually the case. As usually, it takes a bit more time than you expect things to happen. But yeah, but just that was, you know, that was kind of an opportunistic approach. And I didn't know how to... Okay, my mom, she has an optic shop and private practice. So I helped being a teenager here with a business side, etc. So kind of I felt a little bit and touched a little bit of this. But still, you know, joining new business or starting or co-founding new business was a lot of lessons to be learned, etc. So since then, I'm always running some businesses.

4:02And prior to Omnisend, I had two startup attempts. failed twice, then getting back to more, as I call, extender business. Then finally, Omnisand was a spinoff from Digital Marketing Agency as well. So I used to run Digital Marketing Agency, just basically selling hours, creative solutions, as well as development hours. Then among our customer base were the online stores as well. And this is how we identified that those who sell online, they have unique capabilities as well as like unique opportunities to better retain their customers via email. That was email primarily. And then we added to what you mentioned, we added SMS, we added web push notifications.

4:49We had other channels as well as like Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Viber, but we deprecated because they did not work at that time as well as we expected, our customers expected, et cetera. Yeah, so that's kind of like, you know, the prehistory, short prehistory of Omnisand. So how did you identify that there was a demand for the product? You know, there's a lot of ESPs out there. Oh, yeah. This is a red ocean, you know. By the theory of blue oceans, we should have never launched Omnisand because there was already a crowded market and it still is a crowded market. But what we identified with those who, so basically we made two assumptions.

5:32First one that, you know, those who sell online, they have a unique opportunity to better retain customers with a data-driven automated communication. Because the entire customer journey is happening online as we, as a tool or marketers, we are just a tool for marketers. We have way more digital signals that we can track. And based on those signals, we can run a better marketing campaigns. so all the exploration is happening online the purchase itself is happening online and the post-purchase experience is happening online as well with reviews satisfaction surveys etc etc and of course repeated purchase is happening online as well so that was the first assumption that you know the value that could be created for customers is just massive and second assumption was that that you know e-commerce will be growing in the upcoming decades and it kind of proved to be right and then we focused on melch was really dominating the market by far at that that back in those days and but it was like and still is generic email service provider it's a great competitor it's a great solution we learned a lot from that business and i appreciate that business a lot because it's bootstrapped, as we are bootstrapped as well.

6:51So we kind of, you know, follow in many ways their ideology, past ideology, maybe not the current one anymore. But yeah, so, and we thought, okay, so building this niche product, which is in a big enough niche, can really help us, you know, establish a business and grow business, what apparently was right. like those who sell online we have specific needs and omnisend is serving that specific customer group we're not the best solution for church for school for like you know weekend clubs or so we are the best solution for those who sell online yep and it's mainly physical products right uh it used to be mainly physical products it's not the case anymore because like the definition of e-commerce is changing and it's getting broader so it used to be mainly physical products it still are mainly physical products but if you sell tickets concert tickets even if you sell bookings probably kind of the newest example like booking service you are booking an appointment doctor appointment or barber appointment it is it is e-commerce because everything more as everything is exactly the same as you are selling physical products except of you receiving a parcel you are going to you know to take the product to take the service in this case the rest is small as the same discovery is happening online quite often even like the purchase is happening online because you pay in advance for the booking and then post-purchase experience like customer satisfaction service all the things are happening online so the definition of e-commerce is is broadening so we are serving all those different kinds of e-commerce but that's majority of customers of course are selling physical products yep mainly running off shopify per se or woocommerce or or yeah big commerce yeah yeah those yeah shopify woocommerce uh two two biggest platforms our customers are on by far.

8:57We integrate with other platforms as well, like Wix, BigCommerce, as you mentioned, et cetera. And other platforms, quite a long list, smaller platforms, local or regional ones as well. But yeah, those two are the main ones. Okay, so our community, early stage e-com founders, either just working on something, just about to launch something, or they've recently hit product market fit. So, you know, similar to you guys, small SMB, also some mid-market in there as well. So people watching this, what would you say to them when it comes to email marketing and really capitalizing on this multi-channel approach, right?

9:40Like how much, from what you see from customers, how much is one, like how much email marketing for in terms of a channel for every dollar you spend, how much should your return on investment be? Because I've seen like, you know, statistics saying you should be making, you know, at least$1 for every subscriber on your list per month. Like what's your take there? What do you guys see? What's the size of the opportunity for your founder? So on average, it's like last year statistics throughout the year, we generated$68 back for every dollar spent. so return on investment is is is is that big uh usually like other statistics that we see in the market is around that you know at least 40 40 dollars for one dollar spend this is what you have to aim at so on average among omnis and customer base we see way higher six to eight dollars um of course it it depends like you know while just launching and maybe your subscriber list is very small etc you should not expect that good of the numbers they will grow if you continue doing so so for those who are just maybe starting maybe small etc so my main advice would be it's never too early to start doing retention marketing email marketing sms marketing including so the special automations you should set up from day one you should collect subscribers and try to convert as many as you can from your website visitors because usually what happens you know around two to three percent of your website traffic actually converts and the rest 97 98 percent you just lose this traffic and usually you pay for the traffic you pay for matter you pay for google to to acquire this traffic so so my advice would be you always have to convert into subscribers so basically math is very simple like two or three percent convert directly you may add to another two three percent that you would convert into your subscribers and that means that you double amount of your visitors that leave you a second chance to to convert them a little bit later so you know and you can set up automations that someone like welcome automation someone just became my subscriber of course there was a like i'm either providing some incentives or providing some education to show that our product is the best option for you that our product is worth uh buying or service is worth buying etc so yeah so probably kind of for early stage that would be the the main advice to to grow your subscriber list from day one focus on this and yeah and while while you grow uh you should expect 60 68 bucks uh return from each each dollar we spent and of course it's it's it's by far the most the most cost efficient channel in comparison to paid ads or other widely used channels yeah for sure i agree since i've been building businesses online, often people say the money is in the list.

12:51The money is in the list. The money is in the list. What is very important here, Nathan, what I would like to emphasize, list has to be always relevant. If you have an old list and you maybe collected them two years ago, the list, the values will start decreasing. It doesn't matter the size, mid-sized business, maybe established business, 10 years in the market, etc. You have to constantly refresh your list. Basically, you have constantly use of it tools and tactics to always convince or invite people to subscribe yeah i agree and look not all email lists are created equally it's yeah it's all about relevance i agree so one thing that i find um and we see this a lot in our community is people are always afraid to email and they build their list, but they don't communicate with their customers.

13:48You know what I'm talking about, right? Like, why do you think that is? Because of that, you know, bad word, spam. And people are afraid sometimes. And there is another reason. Like, us marketers, we communicate via email a lot and we subscribe a lot. And we have a feeling that, you know, sometimes we have our like overwhelming feeling that our inbox is just you know flooded with with so many messages of so many promotional newsletters etc but the average person the fireman the nurse who are your customers who are your buyers they don't subscribe so much they don't use email so much and their inbox is not flooded with emails with newsletters like you know work related emails as well as promotion emails etc so their inbox situation is completely different and you as marketers you think like through your own perspective so that's one of the reasons you know oh i receive so many emails i don't want to be spam etc but on the other hand what is very important that you have to be don't be spammy yeah so this is kind of golden rule what we always say to the customers you know you should deliver what you promise if you said that I'm going to send you like a message once a month or updates once per month.

15:12And if you're going to start doing it daily, of course, I mean, you will create a bad experience for our customers. And then vice versa. I mean, if you promise that there's going to be daily deals and you will start sending them weekly, your subscribers will be disappointed. So that's the first thing. You have to deliver what you promised. And the second thing, yeah, don't be afraid to, you know, especially for those who did not open, let's say. You send the first campaign. Some of the subscribers did not open. And that's okay. So repeat the same campaign for those non-openers. And that's okay.

15:47Because you are fighting for the attention span, which is quite short. And then maybe that was the wrong day on Monday, for example. You repeat it on Wednesday for the same audience with the same message. And that's perfectly fine for those who did not open. You add another channel as well. You send email for non-opernance. You can follow up with SMS. You can follow up with push notifications. Another good example. Another thing, automate. So, you know, campaigns. Campaigns are great, but automations are even greater. So that means that you will be sending messages that are really relevant because those automations are trigger-based.

16:28So we identify your customers, your consumer's behavior, and based on that, we trigger some automation. So all those things kind of, I hope that will convince someone who is listening that don't be afraid to communicate with your customers. And you talked about frequency. What's a good frequency? Because is it the more emails you send, the more money you make? In the short term, yes. Basically, that's the rule. So why it's in the short term? Basically, because you basically kind of start diluting your list. So that's a thing. The more often you communicate, the more unsubscribes you will start getting, the more ignorance you will start getting from your list.

17:29But that works, basically. the more you communicate, the better results you see. But, you know, you will cannibalize your list basically by doing this. So I would not recommend. And again, so kind of to what I said, keep your promise. If you said it's going to be daily updates, send daily. If you said, okay, once per month, do it once per month. So probably this is kind of a rule of thumb. But yeah, if you don't communicate, you don't convert. That's another rule of thumb. So just to find this middle ground, but at least a couple of times per week, I think it's for any business, it's healthy. In many cases, it's quite healthy to do daily communication as well.

18:18Let's say, for example, like customers of ours who sell travel packages and travel deals, they communicate daily. those who sell clothes maybe there is not that much that you and maybe it's a more boutique store so you have 50 sqs yeah in in stock so of course you there's nothing to communicate daily so you can do more like campaign things that you know we have new collection so when you are very very intense campaign let's say for two weeks you do it daily because you just try to present your new collection, all the different models you have in the collection, good offers, maybe some combination with some offline activities, maybe some videos included etc.

19:08So very active campaign in two weeks and then you can make a pause and just send updates and reminders weekly. So sometimes you have to increase your frequency to stay relevant and to create interest yeah look i uh i agree with you you know and uh you know we we send a lot of emails at founder um and uh yeah it's it's a fine balance it's definitely a fine balance i'm curious around text message because i love that you guys you know a lot of people they might use you know in the e-com space they might use one email marketing platform and then they're looking at an sms platform like attentive or something like that i love that you guys kind of have that you know all-in-one approach how often should you be sending text messages like it's it feels even more intrusive to text message someone uh less than emails probably that's that's rule of thumb and yeah so what why why we have this approach that you know email text messages push notifications in one platform so it's really kind of helps you to create an on the channel experience for customers and basically use the channel which is preferred by our customers to to be reached out and and you know and especially it works the best when you put it on the same flow either it's automation or it's just a bulk like campaigns newsletters so you basically use you know you send an email if it's not being read you follow up via sms uh or even if it's read or kind of like some of our customers it's not super frequent but we see really great results you just send email and then you follow up with sms that the same audience that look we send some good offer to your inbox check your inbox and and basically okay okay if if i trust in general the brand that I subscribe to and I go to my inbox to check and there is more content there, maybe some special deal, maybe some limited time offer, etc.

21:21So this is a really great as well advice that I would give for the listeners that try this tactic. It really works. And to your question one, how often shall you send? So SMS, it's kind of, it's like, open rates are really good with SMS. because just it's impossible to ignore basically this message. So then you have a good deal. So probably kind of two things. When you have something special, so it could be seasonal, it could be related to, let's get back to the same like April. So if you have new collection, you can follow up the email campaign by SMS campaign as well. Another piece of advice that I would give, so all the post-purchase communication done by SMS is really well accepted.

22:12by the customers because it does not convert immediately, but it doesn't cost you a lot. So basically, you know, Nathan purchased something from me and I sent text message that, okay, we shipped. Did you receive? I mean, you have tracking, yeah, that your delivery company reported that you received. Did you receive? Are you happy? Yes, no. Reply with yes, no. That's it, yeah? If a customer is not happy, maybe you can connect to your support center, you know, to convert unhappy customer into happy customer, et cetera. So, and all those kind of post-purchase SMS, they're well-received because they're not promotional, but at the same time, this is a great opportunity for a very low cost to remind your brand, to interact with your customers, to show that you care about your customers.

23:05You will not see great conversion rates of those campaigns, but again you're gonna spend few few cents additional but next time then the person will be looking for the product to sell you will be top of mind so talk me through i guess you would talk a lot about automation and there's some really interesting kind of omni-channel approaches you know push notification sms email just kind of mixing them all in one and how effective that is to get cut through. What about AI? Like more than ever, you know, I've got like not a day goes by now where I've got someone saying they can build me an agent that can, you know, cold outreach to people and put, you know, X amount of, you know, appointments on calendars for our sales team, all these different things.

23:59How are you guys looking at AI in terms of copywriting, personalization, segmentation? Yeah, talk us through that. Of course, AI is a disruptive technology, and we believe that it's equal to probably the steam engine invention, electricity, internet invention. So it's disrupting our lives, and it will disrupt for sure. so what we currently already have in the product so we have widgets and our kind of strategy we embedding smaller elements into existing products not re-remaking the entire flow maybe we'll do sometime in future but for now we are embedding smaller widgets that to what you mentioned it helps customers with copywriting so probably the the most used and the most popular thing that we have in Omnisend is subject line generator, AI.

24:58So you just, you know, define what kind of campaign you want to make and it offers you the list of subject lines and you choose one, you can regenerate, etc. Preheader, based on the subject line, it generates your preheader. We have in template, the copyright generator, translate. You can translate with AI, you can generate text to just prompt that, okay, this is what I want to say. This is the product I want to promote to share the link etc and it you know it offers you the text the copyright and of course you are in control and you have a final say what we just recently launched and i really really love it because this is kind of probably the most challenging for the marketers that are more on the creative side so a segment builder so to build a segment those customers who have purchased who have not purchased, let's say, in the past 30 days, but spend in total more than$1 ,000 in their lifetime.

25:59So prior to AI widget that we currently have, you have to put all the conditions yourself and think through. And this, we saw that this is pretty challenging for our customers. So it's still in beta, but it's live for all of our customers. You can go now and you just put in human language. and we will build the segment for you. And the segments could be really, really complex, whatever you want to build.

26:30We will be adding more of those. So basically kind of the direction and the idea and the vision AI within Omnisend, we see that AI will have to be the creator for you as well as the strategy. So basically help you with copyright, with images, as well as come up with recommendations. What we would recommend you to do next. At the same time, we still see a marketer as the person who will make final decisions. AI is recommending, the marketer is making decisions. I've accepted recommendations or asked for other recommendations. Yeah, that's cool. So talk me through, because really it's about like businesses building relationships at scale.

27:20So you can use a tool like OmniSend to further build relationships with your customers and then use your tool to put out the right offer at the right time, identify potential email subscribers that have a high likelihood to purchase or repurchase or continue to purchase. and you can look at data and trends and the AI can automatically kind of find campaigns or even automations that are already there that could help drive more revenue and customers. So segmentation is really, really interesting to me. Should people be segmenting or is it better off to just always broadcast to the whole list? Segmentation is very powerful.

28:09So first thing is automations. so basically an automation is basically at the same time automation is segmentation to the scale of one yeah so this is the segment so that the person who just did something or visited certain pages or showed interest in certain certain products or maybe purchased one week ago etc so this is kind of that like automation is a segment to one like flows automations you can whatever you prefer to call it. And so this is kind of what the top advice. And from what we see that, you know, automated traffic is around 2 % of all messages that we send, email, SMS messages, push notifications.

28:57So 2 % of the messages generates 40 % of orders. so it's just and the open like engagement rates uh conversion rates are just massive because it's just super relevant content and it's segment of one so that's the best second best is really built segments and of course like you know if you are just a starter and you have 100 subscribers in your list you should not be segmented it's just too early but if you have uh 100 000 subscribers in your list. It's really worth segmenting and put different campaigns, different offers to different segments. And you know, it should not go too complicated sometimes.

29:43It depends on, of course, on your business, how many SKUs you have. But if you don't have many SKUs, maybe you don't have what to segment much because the offer will be the same. But still, you can segment on behavior. You can put one offer for your best customers you can put another offer for your first-time buyers maybe because usually you know usually the first-time buyers you should come with a better offer to convert them i hate saying that but usually that's how it works yeah you should be rewardful rewarding for loyalty but in reality usually as like in marketers we come up with a better offer to convert for first time and those who are loyal customers you come with some other maybe treatments for those customers uh but but maybe not that much of financial discounts yep that's fair look there's a very big difference between someone that's a buyer and not a buyer and it changes the relationship from a marketing psychology standpoint and uh if you you know if you provide that custom with a good experience the likelihood of them buying again is it's far greater than somebody that hasn't bought before so um yeah you can segment on behavior around if they're a customer a person is a customer or not you can segment on how engaged they are you can segment on what they've purchased how much they've spent all sorts of things i have a kind of segmentation especially kind of in the let's say united states a bigger bigger country so times sending time zone optimization when you send like uh across the time zones you've just that I want this email to go at 8 a.m.

31:24depending on the customer's location, not on my location. If you sell worldwide or if you sell nationwide in, let's say, United States, we have multiple time zones there, etc. So again, it's an example of segmentation as well. It's just automated. We call it by different words, but at the core, it's just different segments. Yeah. So when it comes to, I guess, revenue that your company powers, how many, I'd say it would be billions in revenue do you guys generate for your customers per year? Do you have any stats like that? Yeah, so last year we generated more than$2 billion, US dollars for our customers.

32:14Multiple currencies just converted into US dollars. It was more than$2 billion for our customers per year. It's pretty massive. I mean, we don't calculate it on a daily basis. And once I asked colleagues, so can we come up with stats at the end of the year? Just, you know, it was really like what made our team happy, et cetera. And since then, we started calculating more on a monthly basis, et cetera. That, you know, it's a big number. It's a big impact, especially for those small and medium-sized businesses. Yeah, I agree. And I guess when you look at that level of impact and there's a lot of options for a store to generate revenue through email marketing, SMS automation.

33:04If you're a brand, if you're speaking to somebody that has a brand that's doing, you know, five to ten thousand dollars a month, where should they focus first? Campaigns, automations, what are the easiest wins? What quick wins would you give to anyone right now watching this? I would say in this priority order, first, set up a subscriber's collection because this is what you set up and it just works, you know? Set and forget. And it's very important because to what you said, yeah, so that is in the list. So if you don't have a list, I mean, and you will spend the same time to compose campaign to the list of 100 as well as to the list of 100 ,000.

33:51Yeah, you may be kind of segment, change some elements, but basically the same time and same effort you need to put. So that's the first thing. Set up the flows like pop-ups. Be sure that you ask to, upon the purchase moment, that you have a tick box that people could subscribe to your email, to your SMS communication. That is very important. Pop-ups forms in your bottom, on the bottom of your website. All those things are very, very important. Landing pages. so first thing be sure that you're collecting constantly collecting uh subscribers inviting your visitors to subscribe or your buyers to subscribe second thing set up automations why it's a it's second thing because this is again set and forget kind of style you set up automations and make more of them this is a general mistake that we see among our customers but that they set up one maybe two like abundant car reminder is the most popular but you know those who set up 10 automations they double their revenue or sometimes even triple in comparison to those that set up two yes abundant card is the most effective that's right but you know if you add second third like post-purchase automations like browse abundant not only those who put something in your in the shopping cart but those who just browse products and did not even put in shopping cart and and post purchase automations asking for reviews satisfaction surveys back in stock super effective automation very underused you know because sometimes we see the situation that we out of out of stock and the product is still there but just we have a button sold button sold out and that's it yeah so let people subscribe to this very very specific one-off campaign or one-off automation in this case that you know let me be noticed then the product is back in stock it's super effective so set up more automations not to five is better than two ten is better than five and third do campaigns this is what you kind of do like manually this is what you do uh what you think what you want to promote yeah i have it's weekly or daily or monthly so that would be the priority order i would recommend yeah and so if you have you know a store that's doing five to ten thousand dollars a month and you have an email list of let's say a couple of thousand people what kind of benchmark should you be aiming should you be aiming for at least 20 to 30 percent of your revenue to start coming from email yeah yeah so we usually say 15 to 30 percent so 20 to 30 really kind of completely agree with you here yep okay so that's a good benchmark for people so if you're right now you're listening to this and you're not driving anywhere between 15 to 30 percent of your total revenue for email effectively it's not working you got opportunities right true or if it drives more than 30 sometimes we see that it's a case as well that you know 60 of your revenue is being driven by by email that means that you are under investing in other channels as well i mean it's great but still maybe you have to to to invest more into into pay ads into customer acquisition maybe etc okay that's an interesting take so what do most early stage founders get wrong when it comes to email what are common mistakes you see your clients and customers make they start communicating too late and they don't automate enough probably those kind if I have a short subscriber list, maybe I still have to continue collecting.

37:57But while collecting, of course, you have to have welcome automations set up. So every subscriber, every new subscriber gets into your list, should be tried to be converted into a buyer. so so yeah so just set up automations as early as you can and this is the the main mistake i would say that the the thought process is okay now i am in subscribers collection phase and i will get to the communication phase later so while you start collecting subscribers please start communicate with them immediately and automations is a really great uh help here because of course to to to you know come up with new campaign maybe just you have too many um you know spinning plates on the table and you have too many things to take care of and you cannot create the unique campaigns but you know ai helps already and it will help more and more in the upcoming months and years yep i agree So we have to work towards wrapping up.

39:06I could talk shop with you all day about email marketing, automation, all sorts of things. But I have two questions for you. One, what's the craziest story, case study or story you'd like to share about a customer succeeding on your platform that you think is important that will teach some great lessons for anyone listening? and two where do you see the future of i guess martech you know email or marketing automation going so probably kind of left the first would be um um dixon flannel so it shirts we do sell like flannel shirts uh and like the camp the idea the campaigns what they make so they they have limited stock they come up with collections and they have limited always limited stock and they just make such massive campaigns prior to launch like pre-sale etc you can pre-book etc that they kind of basically sell out their their new collection of entire stock in like half of a day etc it's pretty kind of pretty niche brand but really decent established business at the same time and uh and they kind of they never discount but it's all about like fomo that they gave us a new collection and they make a very intensive campaign prior to launch and they sell out in like a few hours which which is which is amazing and again it's a really amazing tactic which is not being applied by by a lot of merchants uh that you know this kind of fomo feel of uh shortage a little bit and and this is their their their conscious decision that they have limited stock although technically they could potentially make a little bit more money having unlimited stock but at the same time uh you know they sell out without any discounts and then audience is really loyal and waiting for another campaign to happen another another collection to come come out etc so yeah so think i think this is this is a really really crazy then uh i mean it's the results that that being generated from email it's it's flat flat flat there is wow just a massive spike for one day etc but like overall results like monthly annual results are super great um yeah and second the second the future um so of course like ai will assist a lot for sure that's that's that's the main the main change that will happen it will be way easier to just segment to the level of one i have no doubt just to build very very personalized very targeted campaigns so you can do that now with automations but i have no doubts you will be able to do that with those campaigns bulk bulk sending but just each email will be very personalized it's the first thing and second thing i truly believe that email will not die and email will remain the most effective channel for retention customer retention augmented by sms web push notifications maybe other channels arise whatsapp seems like becoming more and more popular potentially we will uh we used to serve whatsapp we we we didn't stop doing it but potentially we will relaunch in some near future so yeah so probably those two things email will not die as you know once we launched omnis and 10 years ago people were saying oh come on email it's so old school but up until today it remains the most effective customer retention channel so i believe that AI will help you to do better email and email will remain the most effective retention channel.

43:00Why do you say it will not die? Why do you say that? Because I think the main reason why email is still the most effective retention channel because the customer is in full control of their inbox. And usually what happens with us, i mean us when we are consumers so we subscribe to different newsletters and and we barely read like each and every one nobody does that but you know it depends on the subject line yeah i i trust founder brand i subscribe to your newsletter do you read each and every one not why because sometimes i'm just too busy today i have too many priorities you know and and then very busy i i skip one but then I receive another one another day and then I open I read and engage etc so and I'm in full control yeah and that's okay to have some unread messages and then read with another and this is not the case with other communication channels let's say you know messenger or other people kind of see those channels as more personal and and then they prefer just having you know friend to friend communication not not uh person to brand communication so i think this is this is the main reason and there's no no replacement yep yep yep i agree i never thought of it on you know people curate their inbox on what they want to subscribe to they can unsubscribe anytime and they get you know communications versus phone phone number text message you don't really curate that you are but you're not and it's mainly for texting with friends and yeah so yeah people people use email to to really power commerce you know yeah and even like you know text messages like across our customer base we see that text message uh communication is more popular in the united states and canada um and to be honest i'm not sure about australia but i think you don't have this but uh because in the us and canada it's so easy and so standardized how you can unsubscribe by just replying stop it's a default and every like consumer knows that it's i'm sure that i will unsubscribe easily and this uh insurement like that's why more people subscribe to SMS communication in in Canada and the United States because it's all standardized they are pretty sure that it will be so easy to unsubscribe in the other countries there is no such enforcement by government so that's why people are a little bit more conscious to what brand do I subscribe do I really trust this brand and will it be easy for me to opt out you know Omnisand we always put the unsubscribed links if you are outside United States or Canada so but you know the experience is sometimes different for the consumer yeah yeah okay very interesting and it's cool that you guys can segment right so you can do text message and you can do certain certain behavioral actions depending on where somebody's at so look we have to work towards wrapping up readers so um i just want to say anyone listening watching this you got to check out omni send it is legitimately an incredible platform and uh look we cannot recommend you guys if you're an e-commerce founder to use omni send uh it's an amazing platform super cost affordable and uh look we recommend it to all of our community so uh i just wanted to ask you one last question any final words of wisdom any questions that you wanted me to ask you that i haven't asked you yet i think we touched like uh everything so really well prepared interview so good questions I don't believe that our listeners learned new things or maybe just reminded some old good stuff that they technically know but fortunately not maybe not doing maybe not following the best practices so it was a really great conversation so thank you.

47:24Awesome, thank you so much Thanks Nathan Hey guys if you love this episode make sure to check out this interview with Scooter Broad on how he identifies talent that could go on to find wild success like Justin Bieber and Ariana Grande. Justin Bieber was the most talented, gifted kid I'd ever met. It was so insane how great of a singer he was, how soulful he was, what he could do on the drums naturally, caught himself with guitar, drums, like he was a phenomenon. And we met at the perfect time in both of our lives.