633: We Built a $42M Business by Reinventing Coffee | Purity Coffee

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0:39Just head to omnisend.com forward slash founder without the E to get started. All right, now let's jump back into the show. What if the biggest fight of your marriage accidentally sparked an eight-figure health revolution and proves that 164 million Americans have been drinking coffee completely wrong. Well, today's guests are Andrew and Amber Salisbury, the power couple behind Purity Coffee. And after a heated argument where Amber really challenged Andrew to bring her the science on why she should quit coffee, he discovered something super shocking. Leading coffee researchers couldn't name a single brand that maximizes coffee's proven health benefits.

1:22So they spent two years creating one. And in this episode, you're going to learn why they invested two years of R &D before selling a single bag, the lab results revealing what's really in America's top 59 coffee brands, how they built 50 % margins by designing the product first and pricing second, and why Andrew believes focusing on being the best in the world at one thing matters more than anything in business. This is a real masterclass on building a product first brand with your life partner and proof that the best business to start when you refuse to compromise on what you believe in. I know you're going to love this.

2:00Let's jump in. Hear the stories, learn the proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Founder Podcast with Nathan Chan.

2:17So tell me, how did you start this incredible brand, Purity Coffee? Well, it's sort of an interesting story. I mean, I can start to give you my version. But my wife, Amber, was experiencing some health problems and she was drinking a lot of coffee. And so, you know, like a lot of people, caffeine is a way of sort of like motivating people to get up and do the things they have to do during the day. And I was trying to persuade her as an empty drinker not to drink as much coffee. And so there was a little bit of resistance there. A lot of resistance. And so she sort of challenged me, which is that, you know, if you're serious about me giving up coffee, you need to provide evidence that coffee is bad for me or good for me or whatever.

3:03And so I was lucky enough to take out two professors from the Institute of Coffee Studied in Vanderbilt. And they gave me the long shopping list of all the health benefits of coffee, which for me was a big surprise. But then they explained to me about the health benefits come from the chlorogenic acids, the antioxidants in coffee. So the next question was, okay, great. Where do I buy a coffee for Amber that would fit all this category, all these sort of like the focus on health? And they couldn't show me one brand. They could give me a shopping list of all the health benefits of coffee and what created those health benefits, but they couldn't give me one brand that was making every decision based on health.

3:41And that's sort of when the sort of light bulb aha moments went off for me that I felt like, you know, 164 million Americans get up every morning and drink a cup of coffee. Either this was true or not true. So if it was true, then they were ignoring the health benefits of coffee and no one company was focusing on that. And so that's how we started two months or two months, two years of research and development with Dr. Professor Adriana Ferraro in the University of Brazil. So I'll give you the romantic version now. So here's my husband, Andrew, tea drinker. And at the time I was working and honestly, I was drinking a bad coffee.

4:25At that time, no one was talking about organic coffee. And so it was it wasn't a great coffee, but I was drinking a lot. And one night we got in the biggest fight of our life and it was around my coffee. And he was convinced, maybe you're drinking too much. And I said, if you can bring me the science, I'm a reasonable woman. I'll think about giving up my coffee. And so it's just really funny that what has turned into our life's work all started with this little argument. We're very strong personalities. And he was like, I'll bring you the science. And I'm like, I'll read it. And that's what happened.

5:03And that's really, that was the beginning of the journey for us. And it's still to this day, every morning, he brings me the science because we're constantly learning, right? And the other thing that Andrew probably wouldn't tell you is, he really wanted to find a coffee that he loves me. I'm his girl. He wanted to find something that would be good for me. and then we started discovering how good coffee is for the human body he was I remember this day so clearly he was like look Amber what the world knows about coffee and what science knows there's such a huge gap we've got to do something about this so what's interesting about you guys is you didn't just, you know, go and start a coffee brand.

5:53You've really gone deep into the science where you source your product, making sure that, you know, all of the ingredients are fully controlled, all these different things. A lot of coffee brands that come into the space, a lot of it is marketing and less science, right? A lot of it is brand and less, you know, yes, the taste of the product, but you guys are going a layer level, a layer deeper around the scientific components. So I'm curious, what did the launch look like? How did you get your first amount of sales? Can you tell us how much did you invest to bring this brand to life? How many trips did you do overseas?

6:36Because I know you guys, you have specialty grade beans and all sorts of crazy stuff going on. Talk us through that. Yeah. And it took us about two years before we actually launched with our first bag of coffee. And so two years in research and development. So I started working with Professor Adriana Ferrar at the University of Brazil. She's one of the leading experts of coffee and health in the world. And we looked at everything. So initially it was a two-month project. It then went to 18 months. And we were basically saying, if you were to make every decision based on health, what would you do differently?

7:07If you didn't care about taste and you didn't care about cost. And that's the way we did sort of the thought experiments. We wanted to look at what would happen if you focus just on health. And so there was a number of sort of things, especially for your listeners in terms of starting a business. One thing is we could actually do something in terms of improving the quality of coffee for health, but would it taste good? Would people buy coffee based on health? Would they repeat buying coffee based on health? and would they pay a premium for coffee based on health? So there's a lot of unknowns, even if we could actually impact the quality of coffee based on health.

7:41So 18 months, two years, research and development, getting our first bag of coffee. Then we launched a friend's family and then we started getting feedback and that sort of thing. So that was the start of the business. We wanted to work on the fundamentals before we started doing anything on the marketing side. Yeah, of course. We didn't really know. Would people buy coffee based on health? It was still a bit of unknown. So take me back to like, how did you know when you were onto something that moment? I think the biggest thing for us is that one of the first things we did is we lab tested 59 different coffee brands all around the U.S.

8:19for the ones that are sort of like the main coffee brands. They represented about 80 % of the market. And we were measuring things like the absence of bad stuff and the presence of good stuff. So the absence of bad stuff would be mold, mycotoxins, heavy metals. The presence of good stuff would be the antioxidants, the chlorogenic acids in coffee. And we scored number one out of all of the top brands that we tested. So at that point, we go, okay, this is enough validation to prove that what we try to do, because we didn't really know whether what we were going to do was going to have an impact on the coffee.

8:52We could make every decision based on health, And we didn't know if you could actually show up in lab results in terms of improving the benefit of coffee. So for us, that was a big sort of aha moment of saying, okay, what we do translates to a better quality coffee. Now we needed to test it with the audience. Yeah. So that's something that's really interesting to me because so many people, they have a product idea, but you guys have gone a much deeper layer and making sure that your coffee, in argument's sake, is the most superior product in the market for these particular reasons. Talk me through the numbers though.

9:31If somebody wanted to go through these lab tests like you did, how much would something like that cost? How did you work that out? I mean, lab testing, there was various plateaus of the business. And the first plateau was the validation plateau was, could we actually prove that what we were doing resulted in a better quality cup of coffee with the compounds that we cared about? So the absence of bad stuff is very easy. It's very easy to buy organic coffee, very easy to test for mycotoxins, heavy metals, that sort of thing. That's very cheap. What's expensive to do is to understand whether the health benefits, which come from the chlorogenic acids, you can actually result in a better coffee.

10:10So in other words, lab testing that coffee, and that was probably over$150 ,000 worth of testing in the initial stage. And so that was a deep breath. I mean, that was definitely like, okay, because there was a possibility at the end of this, and you say, okay, this didn't work. I mean, this was an experiment, and it didn't work. And we couldn't actually, what we did didn't translate to more of the beneficial compounds inside of coffee. So that was a stage, first plateau. So we also didn't know what it would taste like because we weren't building this for taste. We were building it for health. It was a beautiful surprise when it was delicious, you know, which makes sense.

10:52But that was also a piece of it. Yeah. Are people going to buy this again? Right. Is it delicious? Yeah. And it's such a good name, Purity Coffee. It fits exactly what you guys are doing so well. So it took you a couple of years. Talk me through, you said you launched a friends and family, but eventually you launched a public. Talk me through that first sale. Did you guys get into retail or did you do direct to consumer? How did you build up the following wait list, all of that good stuff? It was all direct to consumer. So initially it was only about four years ago that we started going on Amazon.

11:31about 65 % of our business is on our site the rest is on Amazon there's a little bit in terms of retail space and we're probably in about 200 doors but we're in those sort of locations where they prioritize food as medicine so we could be in the air ones of this world and that sort of thing the very organic groceries but what we wanted to do is we didn't feel like you would be able to walk by 50 coffees in Publix for example and then you would say okay I'm going to pick the coffee that's twice as expensive as any other coffee. So we wanted to be able to tell the story of all the things that we did.

12:05And the best way to do that and to get feedback from our customers was to do it online. So that's really the reason why we didn't go straight into grocery. And we've really not intended to go into grocery because the more difficult sort of like, the more difficult challenge is to unlock direct to consumer and is allowing us to get more insights and better messaging for our customer. Yeah. And the thing is, right, oftentimes usually what happens is if you go direct to consumer first, once you've got traction, that's when retailers knock on your door and they want to work with you because you've got traction and people are going to come into the stores so they know the product's going to sell.

12:44Absolutely. And that's one of the sort of like unintended consequences of this business is that, you know, the number of testimonials we have. We have like now, I think the latest is about 59 ,000 testimonials at a 4.9 star rating, which means we've built up a body of business, which retail would value to have because they're already buying coffee from us. Talk me through first run, first production run, packaging. How did all that come together? It was definitely a lot of moving parts. I mean, I think, as you know very well, and you've had your own sort of e-commerce business, you know exactly how complicated it is.

13:24It's a little bit like plate spinning. There's a lot of things that have to happen at the same time in order for you to produce one product that you would stand behind. So for us, we got some really interesting partners. And this is true all the way through the success of purity is we've managed to get really interesting people very high up in the industry to care about what we're doing because they think that what we're doing is worthy and that it's worth their time and their energy. And so we've got Ildi Revy is our head of coffee. She's probably one of the best coffee scientists in the world in terms of like coffee and health.

13:57She's written a book on coffee and health and all about the difference between specialty grade and regular coffee, circular health coffee. So a lot was actually aligning our interests with people like tall roasters, with packaging companies, and making sure that we're all going in the same direction. And I think a lot of this benefit came from the fact they wanted us to succeed. So it allowed us to get a first start without investing huge amounts of money. So when it came to, I guess, finding the beans, how did you work that out? Well, it's very interesting in the sense that the amount of antioxidants in the beans vary from crop to crop, harvest to harvest, and country to country.

14:45And the only way that you could figure out if it's high in antioxidants is to lab test for that particular compound that you care about. So in other words, your very first step before any other coffee company is we have to lab test the green coffee, make sure it's high in antioxidants, and then design a roast curve to maintain the antioxidants through the roast so that we don't lose a lot of the antioxidants and the anti-inflammation in the coffee. So it's an extra step. A lot of our business is a lot of extra steps that we have to do that other coffee companies don't. Yeah, because you guys are looking for Arabica beans and you get them from Ethiopia, Brazil, Costa Rica, Indonesia, Colombia, utilizing regenerative farming.

15:32So yeah, this is not your standard stuff. And I think that's one of the sort of interesting things. I mean, remember when we bought, we bought, invested in our first farm in Colombia, Montemunito. And that's because a lot of the farmers weren't motivated to grow coffee based on health and to maximize the positive compounds in coffee. They were motivated to grow coffee based on taste. And because of that, we invested in our first farm in Colombia. And we started experimenting on a soil level to show how you impact the soil and it impacts the effect of the coffee. So, I mean, we're doing a lot of things that other coffee companies don't have to do.

16:10Yeah. So in many ways, you guys effectively control the supply chain now. You have your own in-house manufacturing all the way. You've got the full through line. So talk me through, I guess, the growth of the business. We were talking about this offline. I thought it was four times Inc. 5 ,000. It's now six times Inc. 5 ,000. you guys are growing super fast run rate you're on track you said run rate is 43 million this year so great business I assume really healthy margins especially if you you know you're producing all of your beans yourself you know you don't have a middle person or I don't know if you maybe you do have other supplies but either way the business is growing really really well what do you what would you put that down to and what would you say to our community when it comes to growing a really fast, exceptional brand in the e-commerce space.

17:07Obviously, we started with the product. We can see you guys clearly have something special. It's unique in the marketplace. But what are some things that you guys have done strategically or that you could share that could be really helpful? I think you can talk to some of the other things, but I think in terms of testimonials, that was one of these big aha moments for us that I didn't actually know was going to translate to word of mouth and sales. So right in the beginning, we decided to publish all our testimonials. And so we still do. The good, the bad, and the ugly, they're all on our sites.

17:42And so that was one of these things where I think it cemented sort of credibility with the product because we were very transparent. We wanted to share with our customers that this was just a brand new endeavor and that we were going to make mistakes, but we're going to be honest about those mistakes. And so we felt like we were aligning interest with our customer, that we were on the road together sort of thing. And I think that was probably one of the biggest things is leaning into the testimonials, the customer sort of like excitement about the product and the fact that they would notice a difference.

18:17Because ultimately, if they drink the coffee and it tastes exactly the same or feels exactly the same in their body, they're not going to necessarily buy it again. And they're certainly not going to pay two times what the market would normally pay for all the things that we do. It's because they recognize that actually the coffee makes them feel better. There's no jitters. There's no sort of like nervous stomach, better clarity, that sort of thing. So we didn't know that was going to happen. We didn't know whether it was going to be almost like fish oil. Like in other words, you could take a fish oil brand and you don't know if it's good or if it's bad.

18:48You just know that you're sort of like getting good quality fish oil. We didn't know if God was going to be that same sort of impact, meaning people weren't going to notice the difference. And because they did notice the difference, that was a great sort of moment for us. And we celebrated. We read these testimonials every day. It's part of our nightly ritual. We read them since the beginning. We have been reading them. And when you can watch someone's delight in having not been able to drink coffee in 10 years, and all of a sudden my body can drink coffee, right? It's that kind of thing. It's just exciting.

19:26We celebrated with them all along the journey. I remember early on, we got this great testimonial for this guy. It was like, it took 10 minutes to read. I mean, it was this long, right? And at the end, he said, this coffee makes me feel like a god. Yes, we could find the light. Yeah, I know. I know. That was like really early days. But we instilled to this day. You know, there's thousands of them, right? We don't get to all of them. But really staying in touch with what is important to our customers, what they're loving, what they're not loving, what they need more of, and celebrating those wins.

20:05So Facebook ads, paid advertising, strong channel for you guys? Yeah. The strongest channel by far, though, is word of mouth. I mean, by far, because, I mean, it's just the retention that we get from our customers. They buy, they taste the coffee, the word of mouth, and they want to share that. So while we do Facebook and Instagram and all the other things, all the other channels, the biggest sort of driver of growth has been word of mouth and that people love the coffee. Yeah. And yes, it starts with the product. It starts with the product. You can do your liquid death marketing kind of crazy, but really at the end of the day, it starts with the product, ends with the product, and that's what's going to be the real kind of pull towards people wanting to buy and driving sales and paid advertising, all these other things.

20:53It's just kind of fuel to the fire. Because I think a lot of people sort of like work around the edges and they concentrate on retention, they concentrate on cost of acquisition and this sort of thing, but they don't concentrate enough on their basic product and making sure that it's something where people want to buy it again and again. And so in other words, if you work on the fundamentals of the product first, I think it results in good management. Yeah, I agree. So talk me through, I guess, how you guys have worked together as a couple. How has that been? You know, I have interviewed over the years, quite a few couples.

21:35And how do you separate work from relationship, personal? Like, is it all encompassing? Like, talk me through how you guys navigate that? And did you guys envision that you'd start a business together? Yeah. Wow. We love this question. We get it a lot. I think early on, it was such a passion for both of us. And one thing that the relationship has always been very, very important. And we knew that going into business together, it can be a little bit dicey, right? You're with each other 24-7. We both have big personalities and we have ideas about how things should be done. But early on, we knew to take care of that relationship.

22:18I even became certified in Imago therapy, and that's a relationship skill set. And I'm like, we may need this, right? We also have a beautiful Imago therapist that's on staff for us and for our employees, for the company because navigating life, you know, I think everyone needs a little support and needs a little help. We also have some rules around when do we stop the day? When do we start the day? We love what we're doing so much. We would literally talk about coffee until like 24-7, right, baby? And so we have put in place some rules around how do we navigate this part? When do we take time off, which is not a lot, right?

23:04Can you share some of those rules? I was just going to say, it helps, I think, that we have a shared sort of vision and a shared sense of values. And so we may have different behaviors about achieving the outcome, but the outcome is still the same. And so in other words, we have a sort of North Star that's very much aligned. And I think probably some of the things that we do that I think would work is that time time gap has got smaller and smaller. I would say that we're conscious about first thing in the morning, we try not to talk about business. Amber will talk about the ritual with Sacral Cups and also about what we try to do to set up our day in the right way.

23:43But we have a hard stop at the end of the day. Dan Sullivan has a great book called The Gap and the Gain. That's the idea about instead of as an entrepreneur, you're always looking forward and you're always saying, What's the next thing, the next thing, the next thing? But instead, if you turn around and you look at how far you've come, you appreciate all the direction, all the movement you've made. So instead of looking out to the future and saying, we still have to do this, we still have to do this, we turn around and we sort of recognize how far we've come in these various areas. And that gives us, you know, gratitude.

24:18Yeah, we recap the day and we're like, OK, this was a great day. Or maybe it wasn't. Like wherever we were, this day is finished. And now let's play. You know, the day is done. Let's have dinner. Let's, you know, enjoy each other. And I think the other piece is I have so much respect for him. Right. And I know he does for me as well. We have very different skill sets. And I think honoring what the other one does well and always keeping that in mind has been really helpful for us. Yeah, that's really special. He made me a coffee, man.

25:01To produce this beautiful coffee that we have. So there's just a lot of love there. There's so much love. And, you know, there are hard times too, right? And you navigate through that, always remembering of the respect and the love and the united vision. We're very united in the impact that we want to make in the world. and we're also really conscious of everything that we do. You know, there is that future generation, right? Like we have a girl, she's 18. Everything we do in this day, it's going to matter to her life and her kids. So how do we want to show up? Who do we want to be? This is always a constant question with us.

25:41Yeah, so I'm curious, talk to me about sacred cups and your ritual And when did you introduce this concept and how has that impacted the growth of the brand? And yeah, because you've now got this parent. Sure, sure. I'll talk about the first part. Sacred Cups is an extension of purity and a really great way to think about it is if Andrew Salisbury were a coffee, he would be purity coffee, right? It's science-based. It's very driven. It's performance. It's enhancement. It's the coffee your doctor drinks, right? And if I were a coffee, I would be Sacred Peps Coffee. It is based in ritual. It's very grounded.