651: From 7 Years In Recruitment To $60K In 6 Months Selling Mouth Tape

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0:51welcome to little empires brought to you by the team at founder at founder our mission is to support the next generation of e-com founders so while you may know us for interviewing some of the world's most successful entrepreneurs this series is a little different little empires shines a spotlight on the builders inside our own founder community the entrepreneurs who are in the trenches, taking action, learning, and building their businesses in real time. These aren't overnight success stories. These are real journeys, real lessons, and real founders creating their own little empires one step at a time.

1:24This podcast is proudly produced by the founder team to give our students a platform to share their experiences, wins, challenges, and honest realities of building a business from the ground up. Now, let's dive into today's episode. Here we are. Welcome to the Founder Little Empires podcast. We are here today with Michael Foreshaw. His brand is Breath Sleep Tape. Michael launched his brand in only 10 weeks and he made$60 ,000 in the first six months. So, Michael, it is great to have you here on the Little Empires podcast. How are you going? Good, thanks, Leigh. Great to be here and hopefully I can help fellow members or people who are interested in building a business.

2:08Yeah, of course. us hopefully inspire some members of our community to grow their brand like you have yours. So I want to start off by going to basically where it all began and let's look back to what your life was like perhaps before you even launched the brand. Tell us a bit about where you were at and what inspired you to launching an e-commerce business. So I was working in recruitment at a recruitment company. Been doing that for about six or seven years, feeling a little bit probably burnt out, a little bit bored, needed to do something different. And then my girlfriend's friend, I believe, signed up for the Start and Scale course through Founder.

2:48So she had an idea which she wanted to pursue. So I was asking her questions about it, about the course and the training and everything, and then just decided to sign up. Not really with a business idea in mind at the time, but just feeling like I wanted to do something different. And then, yeah, that's sort of where the journey began from there. Okay. All right. And so you come from the recruitment industry, so you've definitely got some sales experience. Did you have much experience in the way of digital marketing, product development, anything like that? No. And I think that was the biggest learning for me definitely, was realising how much I didn't know, particularly when it comes to websites, Google, Facebook, digital marketing, like you said yeah it was it was a bit of an eye-opener really probably I thought because I was relatively young I was pretty good on you know social media and stuff but definitely such a huge gap in my knowledge at the time but I think one thing you learn is that the skills that you learn along the way they're always going to be with you you know it doesn't matter what you do you can always refer back to them and it's just about learning and adding more value to yourself really yeah and so you set out to develop a whole new skill and look at what you produced.

4:04So let's get into it. I want to tell the community, tell our listeners about Breath Sleep Tape. I've got a packet here with me. Breath Sleep Tape is a mouth tape that you use while you're sleeping. So Michael, tell us a bit more about how the product came to life and the problem that it solves. Yeah, so probably about a year before that before i signed up to find her i read a book called breath by james nester so the book basically sort of tracks james's who's the author his journey through a lot of breathing issues and issues he's had with his health throughout the course of his life which he never realized until he was in his mid-40s were were due to the way he basically breathed within the book they talk about how mouth breathing is very bad for our health and how mouth taping at night can negate a lot of health issues and improve sleep quality reduce blood pressure improve brain health the way our lungs perform everything so it was a bit of an eye-opener so for the next 12 months I started mouth taping but I was just using like random bits of tape so I just get taped from and it would just be like, it would be quite uncomfortable and I'd wake up in the morning and the tape would be stuck to my face and stuff like that.

5:24So it was only after then starting the founder course and I started learning the fundamentals of e-commerce and different things to think about within a successful product, I thought, why don't I look at doing a mouth tape? And yeah, that's sort of how it began from there. Okay. And so you learned a lot about mouth taping through this book, right? And then you've obviously gone through mouth taping in your own experience. And so you mentioned here that you experimented with a few different tapes. Were they like that muscle tape or? Like just a classic like roll of like white tape that you'd get from the pharmacy or something.

6:06Yeah. And I just like rip a bit off, put it on. But one thing I did notice like straight away was different to me sleep quality. Even when I was using this slightly uncomfortable type of tape. And at the time, I feel like now maybe mouth taping has become a bit, people are more aware of the benefits and stuff. But back then, I probably knew maybe like, maybe only myself who was doing it. um it was obviously it looks pretty strange but yeah it was apparent to me that I'd felt the benefits myself I knew that if I could share the product with enough people and make people aware of the benefits that there could potentially be a successful business there yeah okay and you so you started to see those benefits you talk about improved blood pressure brain health lung health You started to see those benefits yourself and that would have been so validating in the idea of this product, right?

7:02Correct. And so that leads me to what did you see out there in terms of competitors, other mouth tape brands? I did see one or two. I can't even like do it. And I know after we started working through the process, we become aware of like a big American company. But I'd actually never heard of them before we started. I'd seen one or two other brands which they had sort of the packaging with individual strips. But it was obviously something that I knew I could take in its own direction and build myself. And so going about it in your own way and setting yourself apart in this space, what in your opinion would be the reason that consumers would buy breath sleep tape over alternatives on the market?

7:48I mean, it's something that, you know, I live and breathe, no pun intended. You know, I wear this to prod up myself every night. I can't sleep without it. There's no sort of, like, gimmicks or I'm not trying to sell something that I don't fully believe in. Even if I'm having a nap in the afternoon, even if it's 20 minutes, I can't not sleep with the tape on. Because if I don't, I just wake up and my mouth, because I'm a big mouth breather at night, unfortunately. So like 70 % of the population will breathe through the mouth at night, it's estimated to some extent. So if you're breathing through your mouth, you're waking up dehydrated with a dry mouth.

8:27I just hate that. And your sleep quality is diminished because of that. So it's something that I do myself. I'm passionate about it. It's something that I genuinely believe can help people. I think now more than ever, people need to look after themselves and care about their own well-being and take responsibility for that as much as they can. I know there's a lot of things. There's some things which may be outside of our control, but as best as we can, we've got to try and look after our own health and our own mental health. And I think this impacts both. Of course. And you can tell that you're really passionate about it.

8:59It's a lifestyle change that you've made and you've developed a product out of this really consistent lifestyle change where you've experienced these sorts of health benefits. and what was that like in terms of validating your own product did you did you get the idea out there to people in your network to validate that this was a product that you can sell make money off of before ordering stock yeah I definitely went through like a bit of a product validation process it's tough as well because despite me knowing the benefits and you know it still is probably quite a niche thing because it looks so strange and it seems so restrictive even though we naturally will breathe through our noses at night if our mouths are closed so we're just basically enabling nasal breathing so in terms of product validation I was obviously I identified a lot of people who I knew who may be interested in this type of thing there was definitely and a lot through that process there was great feedback you know people saying stuff like I don't know if I try it because I might I feel like I get suffocated and stuff like that which that would never happen and I know that not to be the case but it's good to get that perspective back from the market so to speak so those type of responses are things that you can then add into the marketing down the track to highlight that you know it's safe that's nothing to worry about and you can sort of utilize that but in terms of market research it was something that I just knew was gaining traction anyway and I knew that there'd be a big enough market there for it.

10:37Tell us a bit about what your first iteration of the product looks like compared to what it looks like now. I know this little breathing hole in the middle has something to do with it. Can you talk us through that? Yeah, yeah. So again, the hole is just like an example of, you know, we took some of the feedback on board from people saying, oh, I'd feel like I'd suffocate so the hole is there as a way to put people's mind at ease that they've got somewhere to breathe out of if they really feel like they need to which 99 % of the time once you're comfortable breathing through your nose at night you wouldn't really need to breathe through your mouth anyway so that hole is something that yeah we we added in for that from that basis really just to more for peace of mind for customers who may be on the fence about about giving it a try and because we've had for the customers who've complained about the hole because they don't want the hole because they're so used to mouth taping that they think the hole actually causes them to be able to breathe slightly out of the mouth so you're never really going to please anyone but you know the little gap is is important i think for the peace of mind yeah and so that tiny little hole in the middle of the mouth tape would be a way that you can bring in new customers to your community ones who are perhaps apprehensive about mouth taping for, say, eight hours a night.

11:56And that's an example of how using customer feedback can help to continue to iterate and iterate and refine the design of your product. And so I'm keen to get into manufacturing and supplying. So what were those first conversations like around minimum order quantities, pricing, timelines? Tell us a bit about that. Yeah. So from memory, there was, I know founder had some great templates which he utilized to send the initial emails to different suppliers and manufacturers, obviously going through China. They specialized in these types of products. So we dealt with a number of, got a number of samples originally, done a lot of testing.

12:41You know, there was some which were good, but they were quite abrasive. you know there was actually some in the early days thinking back where some of the samples where i'd wake up and my mouth would be quite quite red in the morning and obviously everyone's skin is going to have a different scent you know sensitivity level um but we saw we gave them out the samples to as many people as possible so they were trying them they were giving their feedback and then we we narrowed it down to one supplier who we're still working with today they've been really good to deal with and in terms of minimum order quantity I believe it was probably so we've got a 30 day pack which is a month supply we've also got a seven day pack which is like a smaller intro pack if you like which you can actually get for free on the website and just pay for for shipping so I think we ordered a thousand of each to start with at the time we were based in New Zealand so we got them sent to New Zealand I think it took about three to four weeks from the time we placed the order.

13:39I think the first order, we had to place 50 % and then pay the remainder when it was ready to be shipped all through Alibaba. So it was all secured and everything. Now we only have to pay 30 % upfront and then the remainder when the product's ready to be shipped. Okay. And so that 50 % upfront, what did that cost you to get started? I'd probably estimate around four to five thousand Australian, US, yeah, Australian dollars. Four to five thousand Australian dollars for the 50 % upfront and then 50 % once the stock arrived. Once it was ready to be shipped. Okay. But it's all through Alibaba, so it's all secured and everything like that.

14:22You know, so your payments are sort of through that platform. Everything's logged. But I think everything's insured as well in terms of, don't quote me on that, but in terms of payment protection. And then obviously you can check with the suppliers in terms of their rating and the certifications and stuff like that. So you've got assurances that, okay, if I'm paying for something, the likelihood is it's going to arrive. Okay, so about$8 ,000 to$10 ,000 Australian dollars for that first order, that first run. And I want to ask you a bit more about your packaging, right? Right, because what's really clever about breath sleep tape, the mouth tape and the packaging is very lightweight, easy to ship.

15:04Can you tell us about these pouches and how that would have really saved a lot of costs with your postage? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, again, that's one of the first fundamentals that on the founder course and in e-commerce is obviously whatever you're shipping, you want it to be as cheap as possible because that's going to eat into your costs. Light, durable, not something which is going to break. And obviously mouth tape, it's very light. It's not really going to break. Well, it's not going to break. So it did sort of fit all the requirements, which would make it, you know, suitable for e-commerce.

15:42I think obviously the only thing for us as a business is, you know, we talk about average order value. That is probably on the lower side, But we've tried to increase that through like different combo deals, bundles, discounts if you were to buy a six month supply, for example, to increase that average order value to make that as high as possible. But yet in terms of the shipping costs, we were able to keep that as low as possible just due to the lightweight product really. All right. And like you said, to increase your average order value, you've created bundles available for customers to lock them into, say, a six-month subscription option.

16:22That's a way that you've increased average order value? Yeah, not so much a subscription option, but we've got what we call the ultimate bundle. So basically, it's like a six-month supply of mouth tape, and we also do nasal strips as well. So that's another way that we've sort of diversified and added more options for the customer. So we'll do like a six-month supply of mouth tape or a six-month supply of nasal strips. and typically there'll be about a 35 % discount if you were to buy the six-month supply compared to just a one-month pack. And then we also do combo deals with you buy one pack of tape, one pack of nasal strips.

17:01You save like 20%, stuff like that. Of course. Okay, being really clever and intentional around how you can bundle together products to increase what the average customer is going to spend when they check out of your store. Now, you were a member of our e-commerce coaching program. I know you worked with Jake to get to launch. I can't believe, I love telling people about the story of you launching within 10 weeks, going from idea to having a live store making sales in 10 weeks. Tell us a bit about how Jake helped you to get there. Like without Jake, I don't know. It'd just still be an idea because there was so many.

17:42I think when you start anything new you know if I was to say like Facebook ads to someone who'd never done Facebook ads and obviously Facebook ads can be quite complex but in my mind anyway I was like approaching everything thinking like I don't even know where to start or I don't even, there's so many things where I didn't even know where to begin really and you just sort of broke it all down very structured and was like right here's what we need to do here's, even like you know suppliers like 3PLs like we've got a 3PL in China and we've got one in New Zealand as well so even just things around that because there's so much stuff which you know you think all right how am I gonna overcome this gonna overcome that and obviously having someone near who's been there and done it and been really successful was just amazing really so yeah a big part of getting to launch in that time frame was like I sort of had the date in mind that I was like I really want to make this work in this time frame.

18:42But then without Jay, with the actual structure and the guidance, it definitely wouldn't have been achievable. Yeah. So getting that right support and guidance from someone who has started and scaled an e-commerce brand before. Yeah. Let's get into a bit of the marketing strategies. So you mentioned that you have used paid advertising. Perhaps tell us a bit about the channel that has consistently brought you sales. A big one for us is actually Google. It's quite consistent. It's probably a difficult one which you could scale, scale, scale off Google. But for us, it's quite consistent. And again, just a process I went through with Jake of really sort of refining the different Google ads and the way we structure the different accounts and campaigns and stuff and how we tag the keywords.

19:32but I think with Google, if you've got someone who's interested in mouth taping, for example, they type in mouth taping into Google and one of your brands is one of the first that comes up, there's a high chance that when they go to the website, they're going to convert. So the conversion rate off Google seems to be pretty high. Facebook is one which is obviously the probably key one for most people and we've had mixed success with Facebook. I think we've had some good content which has really delivered and then we've had times where it's been a little bit frustrating and not really getting the results we were hoping for.

20:05So, yeah, I think probably Google's the main one and same as a consistency. And then Meta is one which is always going to be there and can always do well, particularly certain times of the year and particularly if you've got a good, you know, winning piece of content. Okay, awesome. Thank you. Now, I want to get into more around the story of you reaching 60K total sales in the first six months. I mean, the fact that you launched in only 10 weeks is incredible. And then also to generate that many sales in the first six months. Tell us about that. That's exceptional. Thank you. Yeah, I think when you're sort of putting everything into something and you're really, really sort of gone for it, it's surprising what you can you know your own energy can just take it a long way just from barely wanting to do something you know it definitely wasn't easy even though it's a nice like number it was it was probably like allowed it to become quite stressful at times when it maybe didn't need to be on reflection you're constantly trying to sort of go that way but it was great and I think it was like I said it was down to alongside that we I was still working with Jake so I still had his guidance his knowledge which I was trying to implement as best as I can so the two was you know working together and putting that sort of effort in the results were gonna come really what was that like on your launch day it was definitely surreal and again you know I remember the because I think the first sale was actually a friend of mine so like that was that was nice of him do you know what I mean but then the second I think the second one was just a random person I think his name was Carlos well his name was Carlos but I still remember so he lived in like here I think he lived in Christchurch in New Zealand and I was like do I know him and then I realized he must have just come across it and wanted to buy it so then in that moment there's the validation of like oh because until then you don't really know and then yeah and then it sort of gives you the belief then that okay someone out there wants to actually pay money for this and then it just reaffirms everything so then fast forward to today How long has Breath Sleep Tape been around for now?

22:18It's approaching two years now. We launched the end of June 2024. And so approaching two years, how is Breath Sleep Tape going today? How are your sales tracking? Very good. In that time, like I said, I've probably been on a journey with the business and also a journey reviewing what do I want success to look like as a business owner. And I think everyone's got different circumstances in their lives. So for me, I thought there's definitely a lot of reward in Meta. For example, when you're prepared to put the time in and stuff like that, I decided to scale Meta back and just go more organic in terms of just like local community outreach, providing free samples to not just influencers per se, but sports people or people who are interested in health and wellness.

23:09Just really sort of trying to take that approach. So obviously saving a lot of money on marketing, a lot of my time and effort and energy around marketing strategy. And then in return, top line revenue is probably lower, but the actual profit line is probably higher and finding a lot more rewarding. I'd say because the, again, I know everyone's at different stages of the business and stuff, but when you're trying, if you're trying to do everything yourself, it can be quite challenging at times. So I think the sort of organic approach for me has definitely been working well over the last few months for the business.

23:42Yeah. And that's a lesson absolutely worth sharing, right? Reassessing why did I get into business in the first place? You're two years, almost two years into the brand and just taking a step back and looking strategically at what do I want this to be for me and not just growing for growth's sake, right? You've really looked at what is revenue versus profit? How can I focus on growing more organically? How can I focus on getting involved in my local community, pop-ups, activations, opportunities where you can get your product out there and stay really close to your customer as well. Exactly. Yeah.

24:20It's refreshing to hear that perspective, looking back to how you're, how you're looking to grow and in what way. If things become too transactional, you know, the enjoyment and the passion, you know, it becomes apparent that that's what, that's what it is. Do you know what I mean? Whereas if it's more natural and genuine I think you feel better about what you're doing as well yeah not becoming too transactional because remembering that this was a product and a brand that came to life out of a topic that you completely adopted in your in your day routine it's something that you became passionate about it changed the way that you sleep you improved your health overall and then now you're sharing that with the world through the power of building a brand So I think it's really powerful to not forget that and not forget why you started in the first place.

25:08That leads me to ask you, fast forward to almost two years with your e-commerce brand, how has your life changed personally, financially, mentally, work-wise? Like what would be the biggest thing that's changed now? I've definitely gone through a lot of personal development and it's opened up my you know beforehand and it's easy to forget but beforehand I just had you know I would done recruitment that's what I'd done my sort of like I said at the beginning my sort of skills base was solid in the niche that I was in whereas now I feel like I've got a lot of skills which theoretically I know I could apply to a number of other areas whatever it may be yeah it's probably just opened doors and options and i'd say in terms of more just personal growth and development is the biggest thing for me really and that's probably the biggest lesson i'd pass on to anyone who was who was starting is that it's not going to necessarily like and jake actually said it to me when we started he was like i can't guarantee that this is going to be a success but what i can guarantee is you're going to have the skills and the knowledge and have learned enough that you can then apply it to anything else you want to do in the future.

26:21That's probably where I'm at in terms of what I've learned the most over the last couple of years is the progression in myself. Absolutely. And it's such a great growth mindset to have all of the skills, the knowledge that you've gained that you can apply to all areas of life and also upcoming ventures and growing breath sleep tape in general. So that leads me to, I think we'll work towards wrapping. It leads me to asking if the Michael from two years ago saw you and where the brand is at today what would he think it's a good question because at the time I think my mindset was like this is going to be 50 million this is going to you know do all these crazy numbers but I think that version even though it was only a couple of years ago was probably focused on the wrong thing do you know like focused outwardly instead of starting from inward going out you know 50 million's great but what what's the sacrifice on the other side to get there and if it's not coming with the focus being yourself starting and then building something outwards then I don't think anyone's going to get to to those types of numbers but yeah not to say that those numbers won't be there in the future either yeah of course it uh pushes you to reflect on how far you've come and and what the brand has turned into and so what would you say to someone who is in the position that you were in just starting out two years ago?

27:48I'd say whatever it is you want to do make sure there's enthusiasm and passion behind it and it's something that you genuinely care about because then that'll make it easier you know I know it's a bit of a cliche but you know I think we're all taught that we've got to go to school and get a job in something that, you know, in the same sector or do this or do that. But if you find something that you enjoy, it doesn't feel like work, you're happy to get up and do it. And it's definitely always worth trying it because the only thing you're going to lose is a little bit of financial investment, but you're going to gain a lot more in terms of knowledge, skills, confidence, all these things.

28:26Absolutely. It's so good to hear that from you. such a reflection on learning and experience and learning as you grow a brand. So Michael, thank you for being a member of the Founder Little Empires podcast. I've really, really enjoyed interviewing you and it's been so great to bring your story to our community. Thanks, Leah. My pleasure. Hey, Founder fam. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And if you enjoyed this episode, please take the time to leave us a review and let us know what you think. This podcast is 100 % free. We work so hard to go out and find the most successful entrepreneurs and founders in the world.

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