Demonstrate, Don't Describe | Ep 850

22:48And so maybe the first step towards living the life that you want to live is taking action, right? Is actually making commitment and saying, I'm actually going to change my year. And I don't need to wait till January to change my life and just waste the rest of this year. Is that what you're going to do? You're going to waste the next 10 months because it's not January 1st, right? Next nine months, next eight months. Of course not. You can start now, right? You can change your life in a second, right? And I would demonstrate it by saying like, listen, who here believes that you can change your life in an instant?

23:11Some of you guys don't believe me. I'll prove it to you. Right now, go drink a bottle of Johnny Walker, right? Get in your car and drive. You absolutely can change your life in an instant. And so the thing is, is you believe the negative, but you don't believe the positive. This is if I wanted to pretend to be woo woo, right? Which I'm not. But if I wanted to pretend to be, this is how I'd sell it, right? The positive is just as believable. It's just that you plant the seeds now and then the tree grows later. You can cut a tree down much faster than you can grow it. And the best day to plant a tree was 20 years ago.

23:38Second best day is right now. So that's probably how I'd position getting people to commit and getting people to take action. Okay. So annual plus bonus, you're doing that. That'll help cash flow. I'm guessing you guys aren't thinking of doing ads yet, correct? No. We want to kind of master this. No, that's good. Master this. I think it's a good idea. Okay. So let's scroll back to conversion. So from a conversion perspective, the webinar is the primary conversion vehicle you have. And then you obviously have the page there. The two and change percent. I think the changes to the VSL would be the things.

24:10I think the way you position the guarantee, the way I outlined, those things would be helpful. Putting more meat in it, making it positioned like a trial, explaining more about the success rate, adding benefits to each of the features so that people understand what this is even about because it's very vague. A lot of the words are right, but it has the framework of a VSL, but it doesn't have the thing about a Christmas tree where you hang ornaments. It has the structure. It just doesn't have the ornaments on it. All right. So we talked about the urgency thing. We talked about traffic. So you want to talk about conversion?

24:41I'm sorry, ascension? Yeah, ascension and churn would be great. The other two topics. All right. So then what, so what Ascension, where are we talking about Ascension wise? So I'll, I'll show you what we've done so far up to this point. So we have this community, which is the main community. Yeah. And then essentially, and this is the 60 bucks. And what we did was to do a one-time, like a 30 day sort of challenge, like an accelerator, if you will, where people get more attention, kind of more intimate community with more intimate lives, more support, et cetera. and this was a 300, uh, 300 one-time payment.

25:18So we kind of use the one-time payment feature and this did 22, 23 K I think, which was, it was nice, but we want to, we don't know whether to go for a full like rolling community, uh, and do it at a higher price point. I've already got this. I've already got it. Make this the benefit that people get for doing annual subscription. So when you sign up for the annual, the first thing we're going to do is run you through a 30-day self-challenge. And this is an entirely custom program. Let me show you the proof. People bought this for$300. They bought it. It's done. Look at all this proof. I'm going to give it to you for free just when you become a member because I want you to succeed long-term.

25:54Savage, right? Cool. Yeah, that's super good. So that's a cool bonus. But what I'm thinking is for just essentially in general, because we have 1.1, close to 1.2K members. And I feel like there's more LTV we could get out of these people. I don't really know what that looks like. We've tried one-to-one, but that's too much time versus money for him, and he can't charge enough to make it worth his actual hourly rate. We want to find the most efficient way of doing this because doing these launches every couple of months for a new 30-day accelerator is cool, but it's just a lot of... Dude, you want to have that rotating promotional thing, the new 30-day accelerator, that's the new wrapper you put for every annual promotion.

26:33And just go... You get that for free. annual yeah so listen guys you got two options you can just pay for the 30 days for 300 or you can pay 300 for the year and get it for free and get everything else it's up to you yeah of course everyone's going to take the annual yeah so they get a free invite basically to this community yeah um and then in terms of converting more monthly we should just try to up them to annual then and i mean you should try to opt everybody to annual i mean annual has lower return period you'll get more committed people etc etc you'll get cash flow in advance which is helpful but beyond that the conversion so there's there's okay i want to make sure that i'm i'm i'm tracking so the ascension you're talking about is just from these 30-day things that are one time into the membership correct uh no other way so the we have people in the membership and then we launched this 30-day challenge essentially and we basically promoted it to the current customers paying monthly this new thing and then 80 of them bought yeah i think the play that i just outlined is is the one that'll convert on a regular basis.

27:36And then all you have to do now, this is the point that I was talking about with the naming thing, right? Is that just wrap it into a season. The structure of the challenge is gonna be the same, just wrap it into a different season. And you seem skeptical, so I'm gonna break the belief for everybody else who's on here. So in a gym, I marketed the same fish, I have the same pond, very tiny pond. What is my actual delivery gonna be? You're gonna stop eating shit and you're gonna move. This is like, this will not change, right? like I have classes and I have meal plans. That's what I have. And so how do I make this sound new and interesting?

28:09And so for 30 days, basically what we're going to talk about for the challenge or for the 28 day transformation, it's the same thing for weight loss, same exaction, right? What we're doing is we're just putting a word in front of it. So it could be fall, it could be spring, it could be season, it could be the reason why, whatever it is. You know, if, you know, if COVID had been going on, it'd be like, get, get out of that, you know, get out of the house, get into your head or whatever. Like you just, you just put a little ism in front of it. And then all you have to do is basically swap the first video or first onboarding thing that makes it contextual to whatever the, you know, the promo was and then everything else after that's still going to be like, you're going to have a meal plan and you're going to work out.

28:44Yeah. I guess I'm not skeptical. I guess I'm, I'm trying to track. I do that for everybody else too. Just so you know, I was just doing it for everybody else too. I got you. I'm just trying to track the direct, like, cause obviously we've got people coming. I'm just trying to think about it logistically. Like how are we going to make this work? So people watch YouTube, they do the lead magnet or they go straight to the about, they buy the monthly or they buy the annual and get this as a bonus. The thing I'm trying to think of is, okay, let's say we have the monthly members and we tell them, look, we're launching this accelerator for the month of May.

29:14You can either pay 300 bucks to get in or you can upgrade to annual. So I'm tracking with that. I guess where I'm not tracking is, let's say you had a member who, let's say, bought the accelerator in February, but also wants to do it in May. Are you not going to lose out on the revenue for the people who wanted to do both? If they want to do it in May, then one of the benefits is if I run a future challenge, you also get to participate in that for free. And so we could just charge more for annual. We're using the challenges as perpetual conversion. You're like, how do I ascend? This is your conversion mechanism.

29:42And you run an AB offer, 300 one time, 300 annual, and you get everything else unlimited. It's a decoy offer. So the ascension is annual, basically, just trying to ascend every time. Okay, I'm with you. All right. Sweet. Okay, so that's the ascension piece. You feel okay there? Okay. So that Ascension thing also tackles churn to a large degree. Because if you got half of your group to, you know, to ascend, then your churn will cut in half virtually. I think, are you guys doing onboarding of any kind right now? Yes. So actually the biggest mover to our churn was doing one-to-one onboarding calls.

30:13Okay. So we've hired someone to do 15-minute one-to-one onboarding. Great. Well, I think what would make sense there too is like with the 15-minute onboarding, you can give them a script to sell the$300 or$400 annual. Then they'll have a reason to do it and they'll get a commission. So that way you have multiple conversion mechanisms. So you have one on the onboarding call. You also have that one that you're sporadically doing to the whole community. And you can say if you buy right now, you can get it for$300. If you buy it any other time, it's$400. So that's our little incentive to get you going.

30:42I actually got the idea to do the one-to-one onboarding piece from you. It was probably one of these calls that I heard you talk about. Yeah, it works. I'm just trying to think. So because basically our churn used to be like when we first came in and took over the community, we didn't launch it, but we kind of took it over. And churn was at like near 30%. We did a few things like we pulled a few levers to get it down. We started actually moderating the community a lot more. So it's much more high quality, much more like, you know, super good stuff in the actual community itself. we kind of frame the marketing a bit differently to bring in better quality people so a little bit less woo in your words and a bit more pragmatic so a bit more sort of action taking that's obviously helped and then the one-to-one onboarding calls those have been the biggest levers i'm just trying to think of anything else other than annual because obviously we will do that any other levers that we can pull within the business to to help the channel in general i would try to get very clear on the problem that people are trying to solve so one of the things like the reason i I had like, it said success rate 93%.

31:42To me, I'm like, I don't know what that means. Like success or what? And so I think one of the really nice things that I like that Jack does, I don't know if you guys watch that, but like he had people say like, what's the one automation you want help with, right? And I think asking people like, what's the one obstacle that you're dealing with? What's the belief that you want to have broken, right? And I think that if you could use that, then we can take this very amorphous deliverable and make it more tangible. And if you want to get, if you want to cross over to the side of Hermosi in the world of pragmatism, you could even say, what are you doing that you want to stop doing?

32:22Or what do you want to start doing that you're not doing? That's it. Just very simple. What behavior do you want to change? It's either going to stop or it's going to start. You stop a bad thing, you start a good thing. And I think if people got really concrete, then what would happen is that you would frame the value of the community based on the value of changing that behavior permanently. That is a significantly more valuable thing than like the secrets of the past. Like if you tell someone I can help you quit smoking, the value of the community is going to be relative to quitting smoking to that person, which might be significantly more valuable.

32:53The more levels of translation someone has to do between the messaging and their problem, the lower your conversion is going to be because you're basically asking them to chew the food and digest it for them. When really you need to chew it, they're little baby birds and you got to feed it right into their mouth pre-chew. You need to do the thinking for them. So I think it's actually like you will be able to probably change less about your actual deliverable and change two core things. One is that you're very clear about the problem that they're trying to solve. And number two, the path that they need to follow to solve it.

33:21So on that onboarding call, I would say you're trying to quit smoking. That's amazing. So obviously we can't promise anything because we can't do it. You can. But what I can do is I can walk you through a path that'll help you kind of like, look, there's a ton of stuff in here and I don't want you to feel overwhelmed. number one reason people cancel, right? Is just do this. Just do this and then post when you're done. So I want to mention something about this. So the problem with our offer is that it's very general. And we've struggled to find that one thing because everyone's one thing is so super different to them.

33:53Some people use the teachings that we teach for cars. Some of them use it for health. Some of them for relationships. And we haven't been able to make a concrete offer based on one thing. And that's what we're really struggling with. Yeah, you need a meta frame. That's what I'm saying. There's no meat. Like it's a lot of ancient secrets, but like there's no meat. There's no framework that this is based on. And so the way that I would think through this, this is why I'm a big behavior change guy, right? Which is that fundamentally, there are things that you were doing that you don't like that you do.

34:26There are things that you want to start doing that you're not doing. And whether your goal is that you're trying to lose weight, whether you're trying to get the girl, whether you're trying to start a business, fundamentally, it's always going to boil down to what you're doing. Right now, if I wanted to go woo woo, which I wouldn't, but if I did, then I would be like, and all that starts between your ears. Like you literally cannot move your body without it starting in your brain. And so that's where we start. All right. Now, that being said, this can be really amorphous. And so I want to make this very concrete.

34:50When you, when you, when you apply or whenever you submit your information, I want you to put down the thing that you want to start or stop. There's going to be two sides. And I'd like you to do both. And the reason for that is that you cannot start doing something without making room for it. And that's one of the number one reasons that people fail is that they try to add something to an already full plate. It doesn't work. So we have to take something out in order to put in the types of behaviors that you want. And so we have to have both. It's almost like this is compelling. That's because I don't do manifestation shit.

35:19I'm saying this with love. All right. Don't worry. We know. But that's actually the piece. That's actually the piece. um jacob that like that's actually it like the the accelerator we're doing it around sort of sub-concept like behaviors that they don't want to do what they do want to do shift the identity like that's actually it and we can just apply it like that can be the focus that can be the meat and then it can apply it to whatever it is i'm gonna give you the meat of how to do personal development then we'll get to know the secrets of our mosey uh people i don't think it'd be you alex but fundamentally we want to we want to hit on that as the core thing and then what you want going to do is explain how it applies to different scenarios.

36:00And then, and then again, we chunk up to once. And the reason this is so, so valuable is that once you know how to change your behavior, what are you going to like, this is why I like future pacing a little bit. So be like, what do you want to, once you, once you lose the weight, what are you going to do? You're going to want to get the job, right? Once you get the job and you lose the weight, what do you want to do? You're going to want to get the girl, right? Like there's always going to be other behaviors. There's always going to be new mountains that you have to climb, but you have to learn how to climb to begin with first.

36:24And so there's a, there's a Haitian proverb. This is before they were eating cats and dogs that behind mountains are more mountains. And so it's just a great, it's just a great visual for the idea of like, you had, you can only see the mountain in front of you, but once you get to the top of that mountain, you will be able to see more mountains because you have the perspective to see them. Right. And so we have to master climbing. And so I would probably, if I was making this VSL, I would probably do it as some sort of analogy, like climbing a mountain, like something that, that, that could translate.

36:49That's much more tangible that people can kind of hold on to. And so the idea is once I teach you how to climb, then you You can climb whatever mountains you want, but we'll start with the mountain that you need to start climbing first because we got to solve that. So let's solve that. Let's get you out of pain. Let's get you, you know, stop being confused, stop being overwhelmed and just boil this down to the things that you need to change in your life. The things you got to start, the things you got to stop, period. And that's what we're going to focus on. And when you start, if you join annual, the first 30 days that we're going to do is just going to kick this one thing.

37:14Obviously, you can do it on your own and I'll make a whole plan for you. Or my recommendation, this is what the people who have the most success do, is just start with the Kickstarter. You've struggled to commit in the past. Make this be the first. You draw on the line in the sand. It's like today's the day I'm going to change. You've had many opportunities in the past. You haven't done it. Yeah, honestly, I think that's it. Like, I think that's the piece. It's too big. I'll be real with you. I don't know how, you know, Mr. Elmer, I don't mean this as an insult. Like the reason I don't like the woo-woo world is because it's so fluffy.

37:44And I just want reality. And so I think that if he focuses on clarifying his language so that people can understand it, because I think there's a little bit of mysticism that not a little bit, a lot of mysticism that gets appealed to. And mysticism is misunderstood. People don't get it. And so I think that actually you'll lose conversion because people don't know what we're talking about. Now, I'll bet you if he has the following that he does, he does have elements in there that people are able to hold on to. It's just not being translated in the market material that I saw. Does that make sense?

38:14So this isn't me dissing him. I'm just saying like, it's, it's me watching that it had the structure of a VSL. It just didn't have the meat. Cause all, all that I heard was basically like the fundamental argument. Like we boil everything down and guys, I'd recommend you doing this. Everybody's listening. You have to boil down the core argument. Like what is the argument that I'm making? The core argument that I heard is my grandfather knew some secrets. He passed those secrets onto me. I have two expensive cars and therefore I know these secrets. I also went to prison and am no longer in prison.

38:45That to me, and the only reason because of that is these secrets. That was the argument. To me, okay. It'd be like, I would want more to the argument. I think we've got what we need. Okay, good. I'll do a little recap because I think other people were probably taking notes. I'll recap my stuff. So on YouTube, first comment slash pinned, make sure that the CTA is integrated first third. Do that via demonstration. I would do that with share screens when you're pulling up the specific stories. Talk about the tactics this person employed and the support they were able to get. Success rate in the VSL needs to be defined.

39:22What does success actually mean so that someone actually can internalize it? Translate all the features into benefits of what that actually means. Add the meat of some sort of framework that is getting applied rather than just generic secrets. The guarantee should be positioned as a trial. And I think it would convert a lot better. The copy on the about page should be basically translated into something that works for cold. Because if it works for cold, it'll work for warm. The webinar cadence, I think implementing that. So you do one live webinar only for new people every week. That'll maximize conversion.

39:53The primary offer being annual. And the benefit, the bonus of being annual is the 30-day kickstart that you guys run at the beginning, which you have proof that you have charged$300. And from a rotational perspective of doing the other two times a month where you hit the whole list up. On those ones, you just basically hit on the season of basically whatever the seasonal flavor is. And that'll keep it relatively fresh, but you're still 80, 20, 80 % value, 20 % ask on the internal, internal launches, the external ones, you can do kind of a more structured pitch for the onboarding calls that you guys are doing.

40:24I would give a little commission and I would make that 300 and I make annual 400. So any other time besides today, you said you want an urgency on the onboarding call, I'll give you 50 bucks off or I'll give you$100 off if you choose to do it now. And with that, I'll be able to toss you in. You know what, the next cohort starts in seven days. Let's get you going. Just to clarify, you said on the onboarding, you said make it 400, but then drop it down to 300. You mean like make the typical annual price 400, and then if they join the onboarding, do it? Well, right now, your churn, your LTV right now is a little above 300.

40:55So we don't want to trade. We don't want to trade. We don't want to lose money on the annual. So the right price should be, I can do the math, whatever, What is it? It's like 400 would be above. So it was$59.99, right? Divided by 0.18. So$333 is your actual LTV. So anything below that, you lose money. So I would say let's go$399 as the offer. And then when they're on the call, you're going to send people at$350 or$349, something like that. All right. Alex, thank you so much for having us on, man. That was super, super helpful. You bet. happy to help and hopefully if you were in the chat um if that was helpful for y 'all throw some uh fire emojis so that i can feed the the hole that is my soul that that seeks outside approval so that i can feel better about myself dude i manifested these fire chats you did kabi thank you so much man for inviting you bet i'm so i'm just everybody who's in the woo world i um i met i met with a founder this weekend who wanted us to invest in the business and I spent three hours with him and he started the conversation by saying like it's really all about mindset and he just, he didn't know what he was getting into and three hours later he walked out like he was drunk.

42:10He was like, I don't know what just happened. He's like, I think you just destroyed everything beautiful in the world and I was like, or you're just incredibly free now. If anyone can define mindset, I'm thrilled to hear what you think it is because people use the word left and right and no one knows what it means. I'm curious, Alex, just one quick question. Do you feel like there's no benefits to psychological sort of mindset, meditation, stuff like that? I don't even know what mindset is. As in like shifting limiting beliefs. You don't think there's anything practical that people can use? You aren't as pragmatic as maybe some other people in terms of like just forcing action.

42:49I'll walk you through the logical proof that I walked this founder through. Change in mindset, no change in behavior equals nothing, right? Change in mindset, change in behavior equals something. No change in mindset, change in behavior equals something. Which variable doesn't matter? The mindset. But can I offer an objection? Sure. Just one objection. Do you think, though, that obviously the change in behavior is the pillar, but some people struggle to make the change in behavior without the change in mindset? If you can define change in mindset, I'm all ears. But as soon as you try to define it, what you're going to do is you're going to describe a behavior.

43:28In which case, change in behavior. True, because some behaviors are mental. I guess you could say that. No, not even. No, not even. Let me say it differently. How would I know a change in mindset had occurred? Well, I guess you don't because it's not tangible. Which is why I don't appeal to mysticism or magic. Yeah, that's fair enough. In the observable universe, what will I have changed? Now, if you're like, I believe in psychic powers, that's amazing. And I wish you the best. but when people are like, I manifested my husband, you might've decided that you wanted to have a spouse. And then as a result of that, you then started working out and you started like going out more.

44:03And I would argue that you working out and going out more because we got the husband, not you standing in your shower doing this. Because if we take the equal opposite, just do the thinking, don't do the doing and see what happens. You guys didn't, I know, I know, I know everybody who's, who's in here was not, was, you know, You didn't come for a Hermosi personal development talk. But I say this as somebody who, like, I want to put this in context. When I was younger, I believed so heavily in this stuff that I believed I could move things with my mind. If I just ascended to a high enough fucking frequency, I thought I could do it.

44:38And so it's not that I, like, have always cast the side. It was that when I saw that nothing in my life changed despite me thinking really fucking hard about stuff That I was like I must be missing something here And so I read self-help after self-help after self-help book And then this is when I had my job before I quit and I was like my life I remember there's the 10th book that I read. I was like My life is the same and so then I changed my perspective now you might say that's what happened It was the change in perspective Well, I had already changed my perspective a bunch and nothing fucking happened before that what really happened was I said, okay, from here on out, I will not read another book until I do the things that are in the book from an action perspective.

45:21And then when I started doing the things and not reading new books is when my life changed, which is when I became an absolute advocate for doing shit rather than thinking about doing shit. And I see Jamie in there, like, what's really tough about this, where you see things like law of attraction is that unfortunately, many people who are in positions of power say words that other people nod their heads to and sound good, but mean nothing. So like law of attraction has been repeated so many times that people think it's a law. It's a movie made by direct response marketers. And obviously a really good one from a compelling and persuasion perspective, because the meat in that story is this law.

46:08And boy, does it sound better to just attract stuff than go out and get it. So it's, in my opinion, it's selling a victim frame. It's selling that things happen to you rather than you happening to them. And I would prefer to live my life as source. Like I am the world's consequence, not the other way around. And there's a great little analogy that I heard a rabbi say recently. He said, there are people who are thermometers and there are people who are thermostats. Some people just have the temperature. They react to the temperature. Other people change the temperature of the room. I would prefer it to be cause.

46:40And for me, at least, it has served me well, which is why I'm an advocate for it. Now, if you like the manifestation stuff, by all means, if you're listening to this, then do it. Like, I promise you it makes no difference in my life. I wish you the best. I want you to win. I really genuinely mean that. I want you to win. And if that's what makes you feel good, then do it. But if you have tried that stuff and it hasn't worked for you, then consider just changing your behavior anyways. And there was a very long period of my life where I didn't feel like I deserve success. Now, a lot of people would say you have to change your mindset about that.

47:11But what actually changed my mind was realizing that I could do stuff that successful people did, not deserve it, and get it anyways. And so I always identified, like, this is real. I identified as the villain. I identified as the oppressor. When I was in, when I watched stories, when I watched movies, I did, like, when something bad happens, I'm like, well, what did they do? You know, I'm like, they did something to deserve this shit. Right. I, I've always thought that because of that, it actually was something that I was like, man, I don't know if I'm a good person. I don't know. I don't know if I deserve success.

47:44I, these guilts, these shames, things that I would carry with me. But the thing is, is that all that stuff kept me very handicapped. And so when I realized that I could just do the stuff and not deserve success and get it anyways, all of a sudden I just started doing things and then things started happening. And so the whole deservingness got thrown out the window. Cause I was like, who gives a shit? I don't have to deserve it I don't have to vibrate at a certain frequency and I'll prove it I can vibrate at a super low frequency and if I make a hundred calls and you don't I'll fucking sell more shit than you all right and with that go manifest your destinies I'll see you later bye thank you guys