How To Get More Out Of Your People Through Great Management | Ep 763

0:00Welcome back to the game. Today, I'm going to be talking about the management diamond. So I ended up teaching this concept at the school days for the top 10 communities who fly out once a month from the people who start 30 days ago on school. So every 30 days, the top 10 newest, fastest growing communities on school get to fly out to Vegas to have some fun and talk about business. And so one of the big topics was how do I scale my team? And so that is the framework that I go over. If you hear some whiteboard sounds in the background, it's because I am using a marker to write on the whiteboard.

0:34But my team said it was such a good moment that they thought we should share it with everyone. So enjoy. Okay. So if someone doesn't do what you want them to do, the first and obvious reason is they didn't know what you wanted them to do. And so you fix this one through communication. This is, by the way, a really good framework for having hard conversations when someone's not doing a good job. So you say, hey, Carly, I wanted you to do this and you haven't done it. So I just want to figure out what the reason was so we can solve it or make it less likely to have in the future. So I figured the first was that you didn't know that I wanted you to do that.

1:05Did you know that I wanted you to do that? If they say, no, I didn't know, then you're like, great, now you know. Now if they're like, I did know that you wanted me to do that, then you're like, oh, did you not know how to do it? Which you solve with training. Which will dovetail into the whole teaching thing in a second. But okay, yes, I did know that you wanted me to do it, and I know how to do it, but I didn't know you wanted it by now or by tomorrow. And so I didn't have a deadline here. So we assign deadlines when we tell people to do things. And that's just, again, to hold them responsible.

1:39Now, if someone knows what you want them to do, they know how to do it, and there's a deadline associated, and they still don't do it, then the question is, did they need some sort of incentive? Were they not motivated to do it? Or was something blocking them? I could have the best chef in the world who's the most motivated know that i want to make an omelet knows how to do it knows i want it in the next five minutes he's like bro i don't have eggs doesn't matter how much i do like sometimes people don't have like we actually had this issue with my editing team was i was like why don't you all fucking edit in the building and they're like the upload speed they're like my upload speed at home is faster than here and so it actually just takes me more time and so we paid google fiber to drill a hole into the fucking wall and here we are now they can up it's faster here now right but it's fundamentally like if there are blockers then it's like okay well can i just solve whatever that block or is can I remove that impediment?

2:23And so walking through this has helped me have a lot of hard conversations with people and not make them hard. It's like there's five reasons that you didn't do it. You didn't know what it was, how to do it, when I wanted it. You were an incentivizer or something's blocking you. Any of these sound familiar? And if there's more than one, then you got to fix more than one. And oftentimes if you delegate, if you basically, you hand something off to somebody and it gets worse after you hand it off, it's because you you go. Good luck. And so that's a very easy litmus test. If you hand it off and it gets better or it's neutral, then you actually delegated it.

2:57And so what happens is most entrepreneurs just find a human being that has a pulse, say they have a meeting like this and just say a lot of things at them, expect the person to have 100 % retention and know exactly what to do, when they want to do it, how they want it done with no blockages the person's not aware of, and then be done. Be like, oh yeah, I already, I told him once. It's like, yeah, once, not in a written format, in no structured form. Like, and then you're just yelling at them on a Zoom call. And then two weeks later, you're surprised that they're not doing as well as you after having done it for fucking years.

3:29You know what I mean? So we, we think through this, so this is how I think through, um, trying to figure out, um, employee issues. So this one's fairly straightforward. in my opinion. This one's fairly straightforward. The two hard ones are these guys. So from a training perspective, I'll give you an example I had to do recently with a teammate or employee here. I'll just give a... So let's say there's somebody on your team who's a dick, right? And you're like, hey, Caroline, you're being a dick. The thing is, is that stop being a dick is actually a pretty terrible directive. And the reason is because they don't know what they're doing because they're dicks.

4:11They're like, you just want me to not be me? And you're like, kind of. And so what we have to do is, so I call it bundling and unbundling terms. And this is fundamentally why I think my content does better than most people's. Is that like, you've heard me define terms. It's like, okay, patience is figuring out what to do in the meantime. So I told someone be patient. It doesn't mean anything. If I say be charismatic, how do I be charismatic? It's like, okay, I need you to have more vocal ranges when you're talking. I need you to pause for emphasis. I need you to say people's name. I need you to look them in the eyes.

4:45I need you to nod when they're talking. Like these are a series of activities that when someone does all of them, we bundle them together and say, this person's charismatic. And so rather than saying, be charismatic, I need you to do these six things or stop doing these six things that you are doing. And by doing that, then people will stop describing you as a dick. And so we had a teammate who was really high potential, like really smart, hardworking, did all that stuff. But something started happening and they started acting a little bit dickish. And we had four leaders in my company have like sit down talks, which normally wouldn't do, but the person was really good at their job.

5:21I was like, I don't really want to lose the productivity. And so I was the last stop. I was like, it's me or you're out. So we got to figure something out here. And he'd already been given a lot of instruction, a lot of don't be a dick, be nicer, things like that, but that doesn't help anyone change their behavior. And so fundamentally giving someone a frame of what I want to have happen as a result of this conversation helps filter what you're actually talking to them about. And so like me insulting them or making them feel bad doesn't actually do anything for increasing the likelihood that they behave in a certain way.

5:50Most of the time it's just clarity. Just like when you hop on the call and you tell people to do this stuff immediately, they will not like you. And if they don't like you, they'll complain more, which makes it more likely to get fired. You don't want to get fired. Great. so all you have to do is not do that at the beginning of the calls people stop describing that way he's like this is so eye-opening I didn't even know there was like four or five other items that I'd asked for specific examples so that I could say like stop doing these things and people stop calling you dick and within a month people were people like dude he's completely turned around it's like he just actually had specific instructions and so most of us aren't willing to do the hard work of saying like what is this person doing or what does this person need to do which is why I'm a big fan of checklists, because it's like, this is what you have to do when you onboard someone.

6:32Like, check your hair. Make sure that there's not a bed in the background. Like, I'm just, like, yeah. You're onboarding a customer, and it's got like, you know, a pink bunny poster behind you. And it's like, that's probably not the first impression I'm really looking for, right? So it's like, these are the checklists that you go through. It's like, first, you greet them by name. Second, you look at the notes, and you tell them about the goal. And then, when you took a recording of the onboarding call, it's like, why does Sarah suck, and Caroline's great? You just say, well, Sarah, here's the checklist.

6:58You did three. There's 11 items. Caroline does nine out of 11 and hers consistently get higher scores. Now, if Sarah follows the checklist and she does all 11 and her scores are way below the other girls, then it means the checklist is wrong, which means that's on you, not on her. And so it means that you're incomplete in terms of what you're trying to train them on. And so sometimes it's useful to know that. So if both people do the checklist and they objectively meet the things, then there's other things that you don't know about. And so So fundamentally, soft skills and hard skills are all just skills.

7:32It's just that soft skills, people just have a harder time teaching because it's bundled language. And I think that's why so many people struggle teaching them. So in training the team, to loop back to your question, I want to figure out what the problem is with the person. So I can try and loop to these things. If it's a training issue, I try and break it down as much as I humanly can. And if it's a motivation issue, it really comes down to reinforcing stimuli. So either people do things because they get stuff that they like or they avoid things they hate. Getting fired is usually a pretty aversive stimulus.

8:05So a lot of people will do things and just not get fired. So it's fairly strong. But the best performers do things because they just like doing them. The best employees, the best teammates, they just work all the time because the actual conditions of work are more reinforcing than any boss can be. right which is why a lot of people like on my team for example with like a lot of editors and whatnot they just edit in their free time they picked up editing because editing itself is a reinforcing thing no one called cold calls in their free time oh yeah i just picked up cold calling on the side yeah i just cold call like on my days off just because i just like it like no one says that uh but the thing is is that sales and editing have very fast feedback loops and so you can immediately get off the call and get a reward you immediately get you see an edit and or you catch a moment and there's this a lot of feedback loops that are really tight and good.

8:50Other roles have slower and longer feedback cycles. And so as a manager, you have to basically artificially input more feedback loops into longer project timelines or jobs that require more complex tasks that motivate people through reinforcement. And so a lot of people I think in culture say, oh, someone did something crazy. And so what we do is we say, what happened that caused them to do it? But we actually invert how behavior works, which is people do things because of what happens after they do them, not because what happened before. And so that's like what happens after you do stuff is the latency of training.

9:31And that's how you train people. And so anyways, I geek out on human behavior stuff a lot. But motivation fundamentally comes from deprivation, which is what are you most deprived of? So if somebody is very deprived of praise, which many people are, giving praise motivates them. If someone gets praise all the time, praise might not motivate them. It just depends on the person. And so this is figuring out what are the reinforcing stimuli from someone's past. That's getting to know your employees better so you can do the things that motivate them. Money, by the way, has been condition is a universal reinforcer.

10:07We've learned at an early age that this thing equals whatever we want. So it's just a generalized reinforcer. But there are more specific reinforcers that you can give to individual people. So yeah, that's that. And then block, you just unblock the thing if you can afford it, whatever the problem is. So that's my little manifesto on management. If that helped out. Okay, cool. Oh, great. Where do you find like more information to better understand these concepts because we're in a very in like human capital intensive industry management is the the big piece that's missing for like every company and that's why so many people fail where would i find like this in more depth and in more volume so that i can understand these concepts better so i've got a special cta for you today uh this excerpt was from a school day so this is from the school winners who came out they were the top 10 and they asked me about managing team.

11:02And so I answered that question. But if you don't have a business, then none of that matters. And so to start a business, you can go to school.com. We run the school games. It's for people who are just getting started in business. And that's what that's for. If you already have a business and you have a big team and you want to scale your team, we run workshops occasionally at acquisition.com at our headquarters here in Vegas. And so if you'd like to partake in one of our workshops, you can go there and click the scale button. And hopefully we'll see you soon. So most of these concepts were derived from the ground up from just like rat studies with Dr.

11:33Kashy, who Sam knows, my good buddy. And so I think most people just do a lot of things and just like see what happens. Like it's very haphazard. I think almost no knows how to train, period. I feel like understanding human psychology, like that was always my foundation. Even ignore psychology. Really? I completely ignore it. I would say that you talk a lot about it. you've probably never heard me say the word psychology not the word psychology but what you're like maybe I'm blanking it I don't want to get too far into that because I will go there so this is like for everyone if you want to basically have your bullshit-ometer always turned on it's separating out when people give reasons because statements or just blank statements of like the other day someone was like there's only three ways that you can make a customer worth more and then they continue the sentence.

12:27I was like, that's just false. They just started the statement that way. And a lot of people make statements that are just false. They have no idea what they're saying. And so we walk through a framework when we're trying to basically detect bullshit.

12:45Which is logic evidence utility, which is what does this mean? How do you know?

12:54And so what? so I'll give you an example so I had um I had someone the other day say I'm stressed because I'm lonely and I was like okay I was like what does lonely mean to you it's a bucketed term right it's a bundled term it was like well I was like that on Friday night you have no one to text or that people don't respond back to you? Or like, what does that mean to you? Because there's a thing, there's an activity that occurred, and then they describe that they chunk it up as loneliness. But when you get two steps below that of to like, what occurred? What was the action that got stunted or something that you wanted that you didn't get?

13:38Then you can get a lot more specific. We're like, okay. So then I say, all right, so that was the lonely occurrence. Now, have you been stressed before when that wasn't happening? Yes. Okay. So then how do you know that that thing has anything to do with your stress? They're completely decoupled, right? And it's like, all right. And who cares? You're stressed. Have you been stressed when things are going well? Yes. Have you been stressed when things are not going well? Yes. So in general, you're stressed when you're alive. Noted. What's your point? Right? And so we like breaking this down allows you to just be less confused about what other people say.

14:17And so the reason I'm going here is because most people are full of shit, not purposefully, not maliciously. They just don't know any better. And so they just like parrot out other things. They talk about pop psychology, whatever. And I, for the most part, have just erased feelings, intentions, beliefs, all of these words from my vocabulary in terms of what influences behavior, because I just only focus on what can we observe? Because if I were to say, this guy is really motivated. I'd say, how do you know? What does motivation mean to you? I'd say, can you motivate me? I was like, define motivation.

14:49And she just like stood there and melted. And I was like, right. So you want me to answer a question that you can't define the word for. So what's the likelihood you get what you want? Really low. And so, but the thing is, is we ask questions about stuff all the time we can't define, which means maybe we need to ask better questions or at least know what the fuck we're talking about. And so anyways, I bring this up because if you, going back to the motivation thing, if I say this person's really motivated, you'd say, how do you know? It's like, well, they do all this stuff. It's like, great, then forget about the concept or label of motivation and just say, this person does these things.

15:21Great. And so I don't care if you feel motivated or not. If you do these activities, people will describe you that way. And if you do these activities, when I had the conversation with the dick in particular, I said, I want to be clear. I don't care if you're a dick. I don't care if you hate everyone. as long as you behave this way, it doesn't matter to me. And so a lot of people spend all this time trying to be like, there's these seven stages of awareness. I'm like, how do you know? How do you know that? What's your evidence for that? And so what? Like, what are the activities someone has to do?

15:53Okay, they have to see your ad. Great. Then they have to interact with it in some way. They have to take an action. So if you go through the leads book, I walk through the lead stages in the book, and it's only based on the observable. They took a step. Then they give you their information. They give you means to contact them. Then after you have means to contact, like you, these are the things that like, no one can like fight me. Like these are the things that have to occur. And so if you, if you reason up from what can I observe with my eyes, it makes life a lot easier. Even when you're talking to like a spouse, you're like, okay, I'm really upset.

16:25Like, okay, what does that mean right now? How do you know you're upset? And so what, what do you want me to do about it and so then you're just like when you say this what do you want me to do when you say like if someone says like you should know it's like i'll play that game i'm hungry either means you would like me to go get you food you would like us to go get food together it could mean that you want space it could mean you're in a bad mood i was like but i won't take one cue for six behaviors pick and then it makes things a lot easier and so you can start training realistically, like anyone in your company to behave a certain way by just saying, when you say this, what do you want to have happen?

17:08And also when you're having the conversation with staff or employees or whatever, like sometimes we in the moment, like someone disrespects you, you want to like immediately insult them or whatever, right? But you're like, okay, well, what do I want to have happen? Well, if I insult them, they're going to be more resistant to me in the future, but I need to have more influence over them, not less. So me counter are punishing to prevent their thing in the future, it's probably going to be kind of productive. And so what can I say that increases the likelihood that what I want to have happen happens?

17:36And so it's like taking a second step forward or back to think what's the second order of magnitude effect on their behavior rather than what I feel like doing in the moment. And so when you're trying to look for, okay, how do I manage people better or how do I train people better, most training is just not chunked down far enough. And so the people who are successful in whatever your education thing is, come in more qualified than other people. Like if you ever had a student or a customer who you're like, this guy's going to win no matter what. Right. It's not you. It's because of them. Because they have a history of skills.

18:13They have a larger skillset that they bring to the table. And so fundamentally, the people who are successful with your program are lacking the things you teach. The people who are not successful lack those things and other things. And so to have the most comprehensive training, you would have to start with, here's how you write words. Here's how you type. Here's how the internet works. Of course, you're not going to do that because there's a base assumption, which is what qualifies someone to be a customer, of a certain level of skills. It also works the same way with an employee. There's certain level of skills that are required to work for this role.

18:46And so if someone does have a deficiency, then the question is, what's the return on effort? I think I could teach someone who has Down syndrome to be a neurosurgeon. Well, I could, but somebody could, right? It just might take 30 years. It's probably not worth it. Because for the same resources, we get 2 ,000 other neurosurgeons who don't have Down syndrome, right? And so if you think about your customers that way, it's like simply thinking about things, like take out character traits, take out beliefs, whatever. It's just I need them to behave this way. That's it. just break it down to the activities and it makes a lot easier.

19:17And so fundamentally, it's like, I wish I were more charismatic. I wish I were more patient. I wish I were more confident. If you just debundle those things and just say, how do I break this down to the smallest level and how do I just do those activities? It makes it a lot easier. And so usually when training does not work, it's because we made an assumption of a skillset that they didn't have. And so the more advanced someone is, the vaguer the instruction can be. So I can say, or Sam can say, hey man, do you think you just market school? I say, sure. That's it. That's the directive. It's not like, okay, do you think you can make this many pieces of content?

19:51You think you could run this many pieces of ad or like whatever it is, right? And if I'm like, hey, do you give me an amazing product he's making? He's like, sure. Like, it's not like, do you think you'd have an activation sequence and onboarding? Are we going to do these things? I like, I trust that he's to do it because he has the skillset. You trust that I can do it because I have the skillset. And so fundamentally, the more skilled the person is, the bigger the instruction can be. And so if you have low level people, you don't have a lot of room for vagueness, so you have to be more specific with your instruction.

20:16As people get higher and higher up in your organization, you can be vaguer and vaguer with the instruction, so they have more skills. And so experts fundamentally just have more ways to be rewarded within the same context. Like if you're really good at editing video, then you have many things that reward you because you have more skills. If you're really bad at it, there's very few things that reward you. And so that's what mastery development is.

20:42That was so good.