Gambling on real-life events, a Pyro-Arachnid murderer and a James Patterson and Mr Beast book collab!

0:00James Nokise: Hello, I am Andy Zaltzman, as you may know. The Bugle, as well as being the world's only ever longest-running and arguably best audio newspaper for a visual world, is one of the very few fully independent media empires remaining in this thus far very silly millennium. Our voluntary subscribing listeners have made this possible, and you, if you are not already one, can join them to keep our shows free, flourishing and independent for the rest of all eternity. Disclaimer, eternity may not be completely eternal. Get more of what you love, exclusive subscriber-only content, including the almost monthly Ask Andy show, in which I, Andy, answer your questions, plus fresh hits of Bugle merch.

0:39James Nokise: We just sent our premium subscribers a jigsaw with my face on it. If that doesn't sell it, nothing will. I and my wonderful cohort of co-hosts will continue to blast the Bugle's trademark cocktail of satire, insight, puns, disinsight and unashamed high-grade drivel into your ears and all over the planet. appears to another 18 and a half years minimum. To become a true hero, or just to join the voluntary subscription scheme, go to the buglepodcast.com and click the donate button.

1:27James Nokise: for nearly half a million businesses so they can focus on intentional growth. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com slash proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a$250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com slash proven. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

1:46Jackie Kashian: You know what's wild? Most people are still overpaying for car insurance just because it's a pain to switch. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, do yourself a favor. Download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai slash acast.

2:17Alice Fraser: Hello and welcome to The Gargle, the glossy technology and science pullout section of the Bugle's audio newspaper for a visual world. I'm your host, Alice Fraser. We do all of the science and technology news your agentic AI has been advising you to ask for. And like every human on earth, we await with bated breath the time when you can get a robot to sort your dick pics and put them on a ranking chart from lowest rank, looks like a human face making an expression at you, to highest S tier. S standing for should be the platonic model of the throbbing member described in a romance novel. Thanks, agentic learning models.

2:48Alice Fraser: On to the news. But before that, I'd like to welcome our guests. Our guest for this week, a gonzo scientist equipped with a microscope, an anthropology textbook and a fistful of Hunter S. Thompson's vintage quaaludes. It's James Noquise.

3:02James Nokise: Good, good. I was going to say good evening, good morning, but it's the quaaludes. It's affecting my sense of time.

3:08Alice Fraser: And wearing a pissed helmet while hacking her way through the jungles of new wave Americo technocracy, navigating between dysentery and dissident poetry, it's human condition explorer, Jackie Cation.

3:20Jackie Kashian: hello i here i lie in whatever time zone this is yes i'm delighted to have you both the front

3:28Alice Fraser: cover of this week's magazine is a picture of an autonomous drone deciding it needs to go on strike from being used in strikes and retreating to a commune the copy of eat pray love

3:41Jackie Kashian: I hope it gets laid.

3:44Alice Fraser: Don't we all hope that it gets laid? Before we get into the news, let's have a look at what you've been thinking about recently. James, what's been coming across your desk?

4:01James Nokise: uh i've been um thinking uh about uh summer um because i uh i haven't really had one uh for some reason i'm i'm in new zealand and uh normally we have a summer from december through to to march and for some reason we had a bipolar kind of situation here uh where we got a couple of days of sun with no heat and then the storms of the century. And I don't really, it's probably some kind of scientific answer for why that might be happening. But no one can seem to concentrate at the moment on what that scientific answer could possibly be. So that's one thing about it. I really wanted, I rely on summer, Alice, as you know, to make me look like a Pacific Islander so that I can get funding for my continued projects.

4:56James Nokise: And I haven't had it. So now I'm pasty. My vitamin D is low. I feel slightly depressed. And I don't know why I even came back from the UK to try and have a summer.

5:07Alice Fraser: That's what I'm thinking about. Heartbreaking, heartbreaking. Jackie, what about you?

5:14Jackie Kashian: I'm mostly trying to, I'm pretty psyched that the Paralympics started up because I wasn't feeling like I wasn't achieving enough. And, uh, what I like to do is watch, uh, some woman who has like one leg, uh, snowboard. This is, this is, I'm like, I want to snowboard. Uh, and this woman has taken it upon herself to, you know, and then you find out that not only does she snowboard, she also skis or she's going to be on the hockey team. I mean, yes, I, I, uh, it's, I, I love, I love the Olympics. They're the only sport I watch, actually. I like to watch. I enjoy air. Like when people go up in the air and then they spin and stuff, it's my favorite.

6:02Jackie Kashian: So I'm a simple, simple woman of the people. And so that's what I'm doing.

6:08Alice Fraser: Well, that sounds like a great thing to do. I do. I do like a bit of, I have not been, I watched neither the Winter Olympics nor the Paralympics this year because I'm more or less on the road with my children and I don't know how to watch anything anymore. Everything's all on a service and you have to pay a subscription and it's not half of the – the first half of the race is on one subscription platform that you have to download and pay$80 a minute for and then there's something else on another subscription platform if you want to watch the second half of the race. Then there's an ad in the middle that's trying to upsell you on if you want to watch the version of the race where you actually get to see who wins versus the like face level subscription where you just get to watch the losers like eking in and getting a sad embrace from their spouses you know i i paid for the one that said

6:55Jackie Kashian: no ads and i didn't notice an asterisk as you as you never do and then there's a long thing that says except for you there's ads on the stuff you really want to watch yes so it's you you give them $160 to watch it without ads, except for the stuff that you really want to watch, then there'll be three ads. And you're like, I don't like you. What is happening?

7:21Alice Fraser: And if you pay the extra money for the extra no ads, then there's an ad for how few ads they have, where an ad would be.

7:30James Nokise: What I really didn't appreciate about the Winter Olympics was all the athletes talking about world events and coming across quite educated and knowing what that, like it's supposed to be like quicker, like stronger, higher, not smarter, like pick your lane, all right? Like you can fly, like Winter Olympics, you're on a board, you're flying through the air, you know, looking graceful as you cascade mountaintops. Be dumb after that, like, you know, like look amazing and don't believe in vaccines. Don't start telling me about the military capabilities of Udine afterwards. It's not, you know, I like to feel like there's some balance.

8:17James Nokise: It's not a good look.

8:18Jackie Kashian: Yeah.

8:20James Nokise: Like, we get it. You're genetically superior, but you don't have to remind us by being really eloquent in your responses.

8:32Alice Fraser: And that brings us to the news. Our top story this week, I bet you can bet what it's going to be. It's prediction markets, the rise and rise of the new market for saying what is going to happen anonymously and then bet money on it. And I cannot see any possible way in which this can go terribly wrong. Jackie Cation, you've got a crystal ball. Can you tell us about this story?

8:57Jackie Kashian: I like that they call it prediction markets instead of just casino. know it's just like we're gonna bet which ant is gonna make it to the finish line i control the ants and i'm gonna step on one right before it hits to the is that uh does that wrong so yes prediction markets they want it to be the news except for it's people you're gambling on decisions made by people and what are the odds when i do this um and how much do i get paid right i mean it's just a cut so like the only one the and some of them are so creepy the only one i want to see of course is the deadpool but and i'd be willing to throw a couple of bucks towards that uh the mysterious deadpool that i'm incredibly uh very very in favor of uh betting on yes anyway at what

9:50Alice Fraser: point does a Calci prediction market deadpool that you put odds on end up just being a black, well, I was going to say a black market assassination market, although I think sort of by definition all assassination markets are not exactly above the table. But just extraordinary the idea that people are not already putting their fingers on the scale, already benefiting from laying these bets, and then that people are using their knowledge that they will be insider trading to kind of write like is this is this a world where you find out you're at war because the the odds shift yes right you have to follow something

10:32Jackie Kashian: coming through las vegas and wasn't that the big thing that somebody won a bunch of money because the u.s and israel combined at bomb iran wasn't that the the nightmare i mean and then everybody want a pile of cash what are the what what are the odds that that good on on that outcome like

10:54James Nokise: were you like how do you win money you're getting against like no i think it's the hour or the hour why why isn't it just concord sociopath.com because that's i mean that's it's there there are days we just go why why are we living in the the first couple of years of the dystopia that Alice is going to write a novel about.

11:20Alice Fraser: So, no, okay, let me try and make an argument for how this is a good thing, all right? Don't do it, Alice.

11:27James Nokise: You've got such a burgeoning career. Don't do it.

11:30Jackie Kashian: We're recording. Just ask Chat Chief. They'll do it.

11:35Alice Fraser: I mean, look at it this way. The aristocracy forever has had access to this exact bet. This is exactly, you know, the politics of the global politics and whether we go to war and, you know, who benefits and who profits and who is selling the weapons and who is, you know, they are all placing these bets at all times and have been for, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and, you know, putting their thumb on the scale. In fact, often if you were a lord of a castle and you're like, I bet you$5 that I'm going to invade tomorrow and then they would do it. But we are now democratizing access to high-level international corruption and war profiteering.

12:19Alice Fraser: And is that a bad thing? Yes. Is it more egalitarian? No. But superficially, yes. Wow. You're reaching.

12:32Jackie Kashian: You're like, the democratization of this horrible thing, you guys, anybody can. And then, oh, wow.

12:40Alice Fraser: Yeah, I think if we learned anything over the last decade is that we can't be trusted with democracy. Isn't gambling really the most democratic thing of all?

12:52Jackie Kashian: It's a choice everybody can make, for sure. But I want to, can I do predictions? Can I?

13:00Alice Fraser: Please, yes.

13:01Jackie Kashian: All right. So I was thinking about who is a rising star in the world of dirtbag stand-up comedy? Who's going to do this? who's going to headline the second Riyadh Comedy Festival? Like, who could it be? Who's coming up that I wouldn't be alone in a room with?

13:22Alice Fraser: The Riyadh Comedy Festival, I was going to call it. If they hired any decent comedians, that's what they'd call it.

13:28Jackie Kashian: Yeah, they would. And just someone with a pun and access to some sort of wordplay. There's great British Bake Off winners is that we could say, I would like to say that someone who's never won Starbaker or a technical but has gotten three handshakes, that's the next winner. I'm willing to invest in that.

13:53Alice Fraser: All right. Yeah, I reckon that's good. James, have you got any predictions to throw into the ring, put some odds on?

14:00James Nokise: um i look i i predict and um an uptake uh in beta block uh sales um i think by the end of the year i think the beta blocker market is is ripe um and just just uh in the current state of events um of course i talk about the impending stress of the football uh world cup in the in the united States. I think that's probably the major international event causing stress for people right now. That will be my prediction.

14:56James Nokise: start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com slash proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a$250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com slash proven. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

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15:42Jackie Kashian: Yeah, that is, oh my gosh, that's so sad that it's here. We're so sorry. And when I say we, I mean everyone that isn't in power. For some reason, the people in power seem to be having the time of their lives. But those of us who are just on the streets going, how do I fix this? Yeah, I feel like someone has been running at me with a knife for 10 years, honestly. And for some reason, I can't seem to get it out of their hands and no one else can. So it's weird.

16:12Alice Fraser: look my suggestion is that we launch a prediction market but only for completely uh stake-free benevolent that is happening in your neighborhood exactly so at what time old man wilson will walk his fat dog around the block and where it will poo and how many times And I feel like this will be the soulful antidote to like Kalshi and these other hideous prediction markets.

16:43Jackie Kashian: You're a global treasure because that is the best idea I've ever heard in my life. Though I would like to know, are they going to phase out mass market size novels across the board? Like they've already taken it out of mysteries and romance and what's the other one? They haven't done it to horror yet. Horror is still available. in mass market. They have not yet, there's been no Bridgerton of horror for some reason. And so horror books are still in mass market. They are not trade, but mystery sci-fi and romance novels have all gone to$15 books instead of$8 books. Very sad. Yes. Yeah.

17:26Alice Fraser: The argument is now everybody has e-readers and they don't want these little crappy books, but the number of times a crappy book has saved my afternoon uh where it was just like yeah i can that's a cost of a coffee and i can have a really nice time um yeah very sad i'll have to get you on realms unknown to

17:45Jackie Kashian: talk about this just i love the idea of the of the of the micro prediction market of uh is that are they going to yell at each other inside the house or outside the house in my neighborhood with our neighbors who yell at each other and they're not they're not uh having a fight they just communicate loudly. So sometimes it's being done from the car into the house. Sometimes it's within the house. We call them the yelling family. We just don't know what time during the day it's going to happen.

18:16Alice Fraser: They're not mad. You can lay odds on. I think there's a very clear, like I ran this experiment on my two children, which is a thing that I do the other day of sort of opening them to a prediction market about their own behavior. And it turns out that the moment you add in a kind of a profit motive, they start to put their thumb on the scales of the future. And if my two-year-old can figure that out, I reckon probably we're in for a bad ride. And in time-travelling generational, intergenerational news now, apparently Gen Z lives in a culturally unanchored time period. James Newkey say you are wearing a hat and therefore are our youth correspondent.

19:05Alice Fraser: Can you unpack this story for us?

19:07James Nokise: Thank you, Alice. I've always wanted to be cool. We've always suspected that different generations move in different sets of times, whether it's your grandparents taking forever to tell a story or children sort of telling a story about simply a small moment in a day that changes generations and always seems to involve a cartoon dog. But it turns out that Gen Z in particular may be experiencing their own version of time by being completely sort of untethered from sort of pop culture and events and people and are experiencing time particularly different to other generations. I think that's really just the most dogshit excuse that we've come up with yet for why we've screwed up the planet.

20:04James Nokise: That's definitely an excuse that I've used back in high school to not get my homework done. It's giving a lot of haven't done the research. and having completed the assignments. I'm really sorry, climate change, world hunger, the United Nations failing. We're just moving in a different stream of time right now. I don't know. We're all of a certain age, and it can feel sometimes like we're moving in a different sense of time relative to other generations. But I had a quote, actually, from an article that I was going to read. But unfortunately, I couldn't find that quote in the right time.

20:59Alice Fraser: Jackie Cation, if you could draw from any cultural moment in history to make yourself an outfit for going out, when would it be?

21:06Jackie Kashian: Oh, my gosh. Well, I would want to mix it up. I would, of course, want I would want it to be from movies, from history, from music and from sport. So I would clearly want I would look completely ridiculous, but I would be the coolest because I would have an Amelia Air hat. And then I would have I would have skateboard pants and that I would have really cool, but very comfortable for some reason. Doc Martens that could be used for skateboarding. And then I would have a bow and arrow.

21:42Alice Fraser: I love it. I mean, I feel like this is the goggles first call out for fan art. I'm going to go with football shoulder pads, probably Amelia Earhart pants. What a style icon she was. Or like, yeah, I think maybe Catherine Hepburn pants, depending. or possibly be going medieval pantaloons.

22:07Jackie Kashian: It's a nice trouser. I actually, I kind of like those, the big harem pants from the Turkish old-timey days, like the Ottoman Empire. They're very comfortable and yet silky, kind of beautiful. And I would like them to be in a pattern, please. But please do not forget my Amelia Earhart and possibly a Fonzie jacket. Now that we're, what about yourself, James? What do you think?

22:32James Nokise: It's interesting. Harwin Pants was actually my nickname in high school. That's a different story. I would probably go for a cloak. I feel like cloaks are coming back. Probably, and then leather pants. And then a plastic orange sheath for a sword, but no sword. and then a Spider-Man mask, which I may actually be describing what I was wearing when I was three, but my sense of time isn't quite what it used to be.

23:16Alice Fraser: I have a picture of myself when I was three wearing goggles and gumboots and nothing else. So the three-year-old style choices are infinitely excellent. Yeah, I approve of these choices. fan artists, scuggle listeners, please go forth and email us at scuggle at the googlepodcast.com. Now it's time for your ad section. Your ad section now because you can't be what you can't buy.

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24:26James Nokise: Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

24:29Jackie Kashian: You know what's wild? Most people are still overpaying for car insurance just because it's a pain to switch. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, do yourself a favor. Download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai.acast.

24:58Alice Fraser: Do you play video games? Do you ever get to the final boss, realize you've been using the wrong build for 80 hours and seriously contemplate throwing your controller through a wall that you will then have to repair with your own money? Why? Working in an increasingly gamified workplace. Much like a frustrating boss level, you too can realize that you chose to be born to the wrong parents in the wrong socioeconomic bracket and also you didn't invest in the right crypto at the right time, so now you're f***ing working in an increasingly gamified workplace. Wait until they introduce the desperation score.

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26:14Alice Fraser: Please respawn responsibly. Do not operate heavy machinery. Do not operate light machinery. Do not operate. now it's time for our next story exciting times in the story world this is the story of a man who's done what we all have been tempted to do which is uh he set a fire to kill some spiders in his home that ignited a blade blaze that led to several neighboring union units um this is an extremely uh this is happening in Pocono Mountain Regional Area in of course America and uh he was trying to kill some spiders he he set a fire in the floor of his living room and he put a love seat on top of it in order to I assume fumigate the love seat um without very much of a sense of how I guess fires or spiders work uh Jackie yeah you've said you've said hearts ablaze

27:19Jackie Kashian: can you unpack this story for us well let me just say that first of all I don't I I cannot guarantee that the spiders were real um there's part of the things the spiders were not real uh second of all of course that is not how spiders are dealt with and you have to make a pact with spiders spiders belong outdoors you pick them up you place them outdoors that is how you deal with spiders or if you get someone to help you and unless they're black widows and then all bets are off in my spider I'd be like I'm sorry you're actually a very dangerous spider you cannot live indoors or outdoors near my home because you're going to bite my tiny chihuahua mix and I don't approve.

28:05Jackie Kashian: But here's my favorite part of that story was that he then ran. He got in a U-Haul, which is of course a moving van, and then drove into the woods, like drove away, and they're still looking for him.

28:23Alice Fraser: I mean have we not all at a point in time wanted to set everything on fire and run away I mean yes he really is he is the man after our own hearts you know how there's those American folk

28:38James Nokise: uh heroes that you hear about you know like is it like is it Paul uh Bunyan I want to say or something you know these guys are only Americans really know about who are folk heroes there I think this is the next guy because what an icon for the current times than a man who tries to kill spiders by setting multiple fires in his own house and then flees his house to avoid being arrested. I think in many ways he is the spirit of America. Cousin Sam, if you will.

29:20Alice Fraser: and uh this brings us to our final story of this week's episode of the gargle it is a long running story uh announced in 2025 that has just reached its new pinnacle with an article out in bloomberg um james patterson famous aeroplane book producer uh generator of extraordinary amounts of let's call it content because i'm not sure anything else uh banger novels ripping yarns things that you can read at 30 000 feet in the air uh he is doing a a number of collabs so he's historically done a fair few sort of ghost writers and had a team of people helping him work on his novels um in a way that is not usually compatible with our idea of what an author is it's more like a traditional leonardo da vinci kind of master in an artist's studio walking around saying, oh, yeah, paint that one green vibe.

30:18Alice Fraser: But James Patterson, bringing back the old systems of art creation, has decided to do a collab not just with Mr. Beast of Mr. Beast fame, but also is dabbling in romanticcy with a romance fantasy book that involves mermaids. Jackie Cation, you can read. Can you unpack this story for us?

30:39Jackie Kashian: uh my eyes hurt when i think about james patterson i can't i can't uh he is a famous collaborator though and i am looking forward to uh i've made a small list just a small list uh possibly too small uh of i want him to collaborate with a novel with the chicago pope knocking that da vinci code out of the way uh and then i would like him to collaborate with my father uh because my father's a huge fan of just making shit up and then uh and then i would like him to collaborate with the either the guy who wrote hamlet 2 or just steve coogan uh as the character from hamlet 2 and uh james patterson i know you're out there i know you're listening to the gargle.

31:33Jackie Kashian: And I just want you to possibly buy land and retire. You don't need to collaborate with anyone else. I think we can be done. We can be done. The Beast. Did you look at the Beast?

31:48Alice Fraser: I mean, this is the thing. Jimmy, Mr. Beast Donaldson, he's famous on the internet. He is the leader of all viral trends on YouTube. He is the instigator of a hilarious game show based on the hideously post-apocalyptic dystopian Squid Games series. And he's going to be writing a book with James Patterson that is reminiscent of the Squid Games and possibly reminiscent of viral algorithm jacking. I'm not 100 % sure. I will probably have to read it for Realms Unknown, the sister podcast to this podcast that comes out every second week i'm not looking forward to it

32:30James Nokise: james the thing is if if you were a contestant in the mr beast show and let's just take a small moment to appreciate that somehow both james patterson and mr beast sound like porn star names and you found out that he was working with james patterson to write a thriller because that's the thing the book is a thriller wouldn't you be slightly worried about where Mr Beast's reality show is heading because it's not like they're writing a rom-com or like writing a comedy or a satire they've gone oh no we're gonna go thrill it like James Patterson isn't renowned for not

33:07Alice Fraser: murdering characters in his books and Mr Beast is not renowned for good health and safety workplace

33:14James Nokise: to be fair though the trick is in the name if you go to work for Mr Beast and things go slightly sideways on your health and safety. You were working for Mr. Beast. Also, if you're Catholic and working for Mr. Beast, read the other book for pity's sake. I think Patterson's the perfect author to work with Mr. Beast. I think he is the Mr. Beast of crime writing. I think he embraces that as well. He is the author, par excellence of algorithm writing. So it kind of makes sense that the two of them have teamed up.

33:53Jackie Kashian: Do you think that he would write a prediction market book with Mr. Beast? I think that they could predict how this book would go. I mean, there could be a prediction market. It's a callback. I'll be over here. Okay.

34:11Alice Fraser: I mean, I'm 100 % up for opening a pool on what happens in every chapter.

34:19Jackie Kashian: I think we can predict what will happen.

34:21James Nokise: I think if Mr. Beast wrote a book of predictions called maybe some sort of like it was revealing things, like it was a book of revelations by Mr. Beast and that becomes a bestseller, Mr. Beast's book of revelations. I think at that point, one, damn it, the Christians were right. And two, we're really missing the obvious signs.

34:46Alice Fraser: And that brings us to the end of this week's episode of The Gargle. Jackie Cation, have you got anything to plug?

34:52Jackie Kashian: Of course I do. I do stand-up comedy if you go to JackieCation.com or FamilyPetAncestry.com, which points to JackieCation.com. Why did I buy that? Because it's funny. I like the idea of someone going, did my cat come over on the Mayflower? familypetancestry.com and then you see my face but I have a new album and a new special out it's called Altercation because my last name is Cation and I want to punch everyone in the nose right now but Altercation I saw an early version of this show

35:22Alice Fraser: in London about a year ago and it was already excellent then so I cannot wait to see the filmed version and I'll spread that around as much as I can James have you got anything to plug?

35:34James Nokise: Tickets have just gone on sale for New Zealand Comedy Festival, and I do these one-night political rants in the show, but I'm actually hosting a showcase of political comedians, which we're trying out, and if you go to New Zealand Comedy Fest for the listeners who can. Otherwise, if you search my name and the letters ABC, you'll go to the Australian Broadcasting Network and be able to find a whole bunch of weird podcasts, stories from the Pacific that I do, including one on an island full of monkeys in Palau, which is about as much fun as it sounds.

36:10Alice Fraser: It does sound an enormous amount of fun. You can follow me at patreon.com slash Alice Fraser. You can subscribe there for free. I just use it as my central point now because I don't trust the algorithms anymore. I have weekly writers meetings there as well as weekly salons where we all get in a Zoom room and talk about ideas. I have a few slots left for my Swiss writers retreats which are running in October this year. if you head over to patreon.com slash alicefraser. And if you want to spend a week in the Swiss mountains writing with me, I highly recommend it. I enjoy it. There are still one or two slots.

36:44Alice Fraser: We're doing two weeks available. So please, two separate weeks, five days each. I think that's all. Follow me on all of the things. Oh, I have a, what do you call it? I have a progress tracker on my website now for my book. I've got a book. It's not coming out for ages yet, but I'm writing it. And I've got a progress wheel, like Brandon Sanderson does a wheel of progress, and I'm finding it very motivating. So if you enjoy watching numbers go up day by day, you can head over to alicefraser.com. This is a Bugle Podcast and Alice Fraser Production. Your editor is Harry Gordon. Your executive producer is Chris Skinner.

37:31Alice Fraser: I'll talk to you again in two weeks from now. But if you want to hear me next week, Realms Unknown is our science fiction and fantasy podcast that comes out week on, week off with The Gargle.

38:01James Nokise: manage, move, and maximize money, proven by over a trillion dollars in secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com slash proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a$250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com slash proven. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.