2032 Olympics in Croc infested waters!

0:00Hey y 'all, Kelly Clarkson here with Wayfair. You know my favorite compliment during the holidays? Your house feels so cozy. That's when I know everyone's comfortable enough to kick off their shoes, grab more dessert, and stay a little longer. Wayfair makes it easy, with everything from dining furniture to festive guest room essentials, all in one place. So whether you're hosting for an afternoon or all weekend, everyone feels right at home. Get holiday guests ready at Wayfair.com or on the Wayfair app today.

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1:26stories and stay for iconic games like gay name or straight name. Hey, Greg, gay name or straight name? Greg. Uh, gay, obviously. Season two starts September 8th. Bigger, badder, and gayer than ever before. More guests. More hot takes from your favorite queer elder millennials. And more of us begging you to tell us our hair looks good today. Which you can now see in video on Apple Podcasts. New episodes drop every Tuesday on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bonk! Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com

2:06Alice Fraser: Welcome to The Gargle, a science and technology pullout section of the Bugle's audio newspaper for a visual world. In a world where someone on the internet is always wrong, dare to believe one podcast will take on the dragon of science and technology news that's happening in science and technology. We will equip a mercenary gang in the village inn and go fight that dragon into hard-hitting podcast satire. Watch out, science. Watch out, technology. It's the Gargle. I'm your host, Alice Fraser, travelling bard of no-holds-barred. You'd better strap on your shields and other strappable equipment, and I'll welcome our guest hosts for this episode.

2:42Alice Fraser: Rising from the waves clad only in the glory of seafoam, it's Michael Oduale. Wow, thank you. I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you for having me. And it's the man at the end of the movie when you find out the whole movie has been told by a man in an armchair. The camera pans around to find him sitting in that armchair smoking a pipe. Narrative expectations make you assume it's an aged-up version of the hero of the story. But I'm here to tell you it's actually always Tom Neenan. And how do I know this story? Because I was Odysseus. Oh my gosh. There's twists. No one saw it coming. No one saw it coming except everyone saw it coming.

3:25Alice Fraser: We have some incredible stories in science and technology news this week, beginning in my home state, which is going to be hosting the Olympics in 2032 Brisbane Games. They've decided to run the rowing in a river that is home to about 500 saltwater crocodiles. that has now been approved. Tom Neenan, you value your leg. Can you unpack this story for us? Yeah, I mean, that's basically it. So it's the Olympics and Paralympics rowing and canoeing event that will be happening at the 2032 Brisbane Games. Is that when you're hosting them? Yeah. And so they're working out where's the best way to host them.

4:11And basically, I think they just ignored what was in the water and just looked at the dynamics of the water and said that the best place that they should do it is a place that is home to, as you say, 500 saltwater crocodiles, which I'd imagine are like freshwater crocodiles, but just like, they're saltier. They are more annoyed about the fact that there are people rowing through their home. I sort of wrote down as like a sassy thing. I was like, well, they still make the rowers like row faster. and that is an official stance from I believe the Brisbane Games committee is like well at least they'll row faster so that's that's terrifying I'm not sure I'm not an edgy comedian but it did occur to me that if things go wrong with the Olympic rowing then the same people may well be around for the Paralympic rowing there might be limb difference going on between those two I don't know um i think it all should be okay um it would just be suspect if instead of medals um at the end of the rowing they decided to give out handbags as prizes that would be that would be the moment at which my uh my hackles were raised but yeah it's it's a baffling choice but then i guess trying to find anywhere in australia where you can hold some games that don't have deadly creatures somewhere is a tall order so maybe it's the best option they've got

5:32Alice Fraser: uh michael how would you feel rowing on a crocodile infested river well my thing is you know they held the you know like the roided games last year i feel like this is like the perfect use for the next roided game like how much do you really believe in them drugs get in with the crocodiles i think this should be that it should be the next uh obstacle course don't give it to the regular ones i think it's phenomenal i think it's an incredible idea that we should i think i mean just do the whole australian thing that's what australia is known for that is our stereotype in the world is that we're full of dangerous animals just bring it in every aspect of the olympic games have the runners competing against kangaroos have uh you know have the the wrestlers go up against some mutant giant koalas i don't know just add some spice to the Olympic Games, is what I think.

6:30It's crazy they're making the Olympics harder. It sounds pretty hard already. I mean, it's like 100 metres, aim the gun at them. I don't know what the next thing needs to be.

6:42Alice Fraser: That's it, 100 metres. Yeah, have the person dancing behind them, firing the gun at their feet and saying, dance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is a javelin but just someone trying to spear a massive tarantula? Just keep it all in keeping with the Australian way of life, which is just trying to survive against a country that wants to kill you. Yeah, this is the thing. As somebody who has lived mainly in cities and small towns and not in the country, I've had very few interactions with poisonous animals. But I feel like for the Olympic Games, you sort of have to lean into the stereotypes. Like at the French opening games, they had a whole lot of decapitated aristocrats singing heavy metal, I think.

7:22how fun was that do you have a um a logo for your brisbane games yet do you know what the

7:28Alice Fraser: logo will be or like the mascot or whatever i i have not look i'm gonna confess that i have not been following the the olympic games news um except uh to wonder whether it means they're going to finally build the train line the speed train line from brisbane to caloundra where i live and wondering what that'll do to house prices that's how boring i am Fair enough. I look forward to Snappy, the rowing eating crocodile being the mascot that you guys roll out. Speaking of mouse-human hybrids, there are now mouse-human hybrids where they've taken human brain cells and used as a part human, part mouse brain for testing neurodevelopmental diseases that can only occur in humans.

8:21Alice Fraser: Michael, you've had a psychic connection with a mouse before. Can you tell us a bit more about this story? I think, listen, scientists are just bored, isn't it? They just be trying stuff. I think it's like part human, part mouse brain, and they're doing it, I don't know, to just bring out a new L 'Oreal product. Like it just makes makeup better. I don't really understand some of these stories sometimes or why they be mixing the animal and the human brain sometimes. Well, so you know how they're always saying, oh, we've cured this cancer in mice and then it's like, okay, but that's ages away from humans.

8:58Alice Fraser: So they made the solution because there are these neurodevelopmental disorders that humans get, the mice don't get. So now they're going to give the mice human enough brains that they can have these neurodevelopmental disorders and then study them in the mice brains. Look, it's deeply unsettling. I'm sure it's very good science. And apparently it was published in the journal Nature. It was carried out with independent ethical scrutiny. So, like, the mice are probably not having an existential crisis. So this is pro-mouse or anti-human? we all read flowers for algernon right which is where the mouse becomes more human like and then less human like and it's about the tragedy of becoming intelligent and then turning into a tech bro but uh but yeah so they're making the mouse brains human like to the extent that they can study diseases in them but not human like enough that they can understand what's being done to them.

9:59The perfect, that balance, that tipping point is just exactly what you want to hear, isn't it? That is ideal. It's a shame they did it with mice because with rats, obviously rats already interact with human brains, but all they need to do is pull hair, as we know, under a chef's hat. They can already have impact on a human's brain that way. So it feels like a lot of effort to go to. But I'm just hoping this ends up being a Stuart Little prequel. That's my that's my dream, that you end up with a little mouse in a little roadster driving around.

10:30Alice Fraser: Yes, this is the unfortunate sequel to Ratatouille, Ratatouille.

10:37Alice Fraser: This is a huge breakthrough that's happened in the last couple of years in science is that they have these things called organoids, which are not human brains, but they're little clusters of cells that perform in the way that brain cells perform in the brain. And so you can study the science of them. And they divide, they apparently now you can implant them in the mouse brain. They divide and organize themselves into the animal's existing brain circuitry in the way that, exactly the way that you've seen in every montage where like some turtles turn into the Teenage Mutant Ninja. That's the science.

11:11Alice Fraser: That's the exact function. Does anybody know, like, why is it that they keep using mice? Is it like that's just the first animal they found and they stuck with it? or there is probably like an actual reason. Well, I mean, we share a fair bit of DNA with mice, but we share a fair bit of DNA with most other animals. It's basically, it's sort of more or less the biggest animal we don't feel upset about. Wow. We're doing horrible experiments on. As far as I can tell from the discussions that I've had with scientists, it's like about as big as you can get before we start feeling squirrelly about it.

11:45And they tried squirrels and they felt like. Girls too big, too cute, too good at studying boy bands.

11:57Alice Fraser: So you're not worried about hosting the whole family for the holidays? Why would I be? Wayfair had everything I needed to get the house holiday ready. What if Mike brings his cheerful dogs? My tree has tons of five-star reviews telling me how sturdy it is. But what if everyone's plus one brings a plus one? We'll see how extendable this extendable table really is. And extra chairs are on the way. Okay. What if there's a blizzard and everyone has to sleep over? Ready to go with extra bedding and towels. From guest-ready essentials to holiday decor you can trust. Wayfair delivers. Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast.

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13:04Alice Fraser: And that, of course, brings us to the ad section. Your ad section now, because you can't be what you can't buy. and have you looked at your knees recently like really looked yeah you're right gross get around get around knee free with our new domestic electric scooter uh provide a nuisance to others and a danger to yourself with the first electric scooter that brings the indoors outdoors and the outdoors indoors the home scoot shooter sleuter bring your scooter into the shower into the toilet, into the bedroom. Scoot your way to freedom, knee free. And I liked it. Thank you. You're welcome. You've got the gene splicing.

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14:25Alice Fraser: It's fine. Rat Support, the only platform built by people and rats. That brings us to our next top story. Our next top story this week is the incredible news that the flock cameras in America have been hacked. Tom Neenan, you've been surveilled on a near constant basis in a sort of a Jim Carrey-esque Truman Show scenario. Can you tell us a little bit more about the flock hackers? Of course. Of course, back in my day, flock hacking was also known as cattle rustling. um hey um it's uh it's we're turning on the the the tech people are being turned on because what happened was there are these flock cameras which to be honest i'd never heard of before um and i was uh but apparently they are going around they are filming traffic they are gaining information uh from traffic uh and what happened was some hackers uh were very industrious and they they took down the um the camera and i don't know if they took the entire camera home um or if you can just take out like the the sort of the hardware inside or the software inside or whatever and take that home either way because they may have just doxxed themselves that might be a problem um but they were able to get from this camera sort of information about the information this is where we are in the world now where people can kind of steal the information that's being stolen from us without our knowledge um and so metadata not someone who looks on facebook for their next uh evening out exactly information about information information about information and they found out that these flock cameras are able they basically sort of um put together so many different images of cars and things like that and then they're able to use i'm guessing uh i don't know if it's ai but sort of certain things to uh to get full kind of um images are they kind of the data images of every every car basically there's like so much information they can glean just from this split second that your car is in front of them and I guess track you and do other stuff.

16:29It's very scary. Do I fully understand it? No, I'm just delighted by the fact that there are people out there who are sort of taking, seizing the means of data theft. Is it theft? I guess you're out there. I guess you're in public. Well, at least kind of it's invasive at the very least.

16:45Alice Fraser: So this is the conversation that was happening in the UK in the 90s and early 2000s about CCTV cameras except that these flock cameras are you know AI enabled and networked and can basically follow you home and say where you live and tell the police officer who's stalking you how to find your house which has been the majority of law cases regarding these flock cameras have been about the misuse of them by police to follow and track people outside of the remit of a warrant or something. They're incredibly everywhere and they are when you have this kind of networked data they They are essentially incredibly invasive.

17:20Alice Fraser: They know where you are at all times and can follow you anywhere. Michael, would you hack a flock camera if you had the hacker skills? Of course. It feels like there's so much tech these days that they tell us, like, we absolutely need and there's nothing we can do about it. It's like you just made that up. You just made it. And then you said that there's nothing we can do. It's like just putting AI in everything. It's like, oh, we need it. It's like we don't need it in my sandwich. I don't need an AI sandwich. You're like a chatbot to chat about how great this sandwich is. You know what I mean?

17:56So I feel like this is just another edition of just telling us, like, oh, we need these cameras. I'll break them. Break stuff. Yeah, break stuff, man.

18:07Alice Fraser: It's just going to be devastating to the Columbo industry is my main beef with it. Like, how are you going to get a hard-bitten detective if he can just be like, a lady walked in and her legs were up to here and I looked her up and I knew everything about her. I do think you're right. It takes us back because in the UK, we're just constantly being surveilled all the time. And I think we're so used to it. And it's kind of amazing to watch places like the US suddenly sort of catch up and go, hang on, you can't go anywhere without appearing on camera somewhere. And it's like, no, that has always been the case here.

18:40Alice Fraser: Yeah, except that the CCTV cameras in the UK are just like They make you look like a grainy sim And they can be defeated with a hoodie Whereas these flock cameras are like laser precise They'll be able to tell you your nipple size And you'll start getting ads for the right bra size Like it's the worst We're the most surveilled country But if you get your phone stolen And it didn't happen directly in front of the police officer It'd be like, shh, there's nothing And I just, I don't know what happened. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's ridiculous. Yeah, the phone seamlessly just begins to change its targeted advertising towards phone stealers.

19:21Alice Fraser: Would you like this fresh balaclava? But no, it's got to a weird situation in the UK where actually the place, if you don't want to be surveilled, the place you feel most safe are the dodgiest areas because they're the areas most likely to have the broken CCTV cameras. so if you do actually want to be anonymous then uh then hang around sort of the dodgiest areas you'll be fine that's why i was in that massage parlor i just wanted some privacy i believe you i believe you thousands wouldn't speaking of thousands wouldn't believe you a thousand people have buried their underwear for science uh michael you've heard of underwear can you tell us a little more about this story so um the researchers made people bury their underwear to determine how active the soil was based on how much the underwear had decomposed um so on average it says about 58 percent of the cotton undies were gone after two months uh underwear buried in lawns lasted longer i don't know this just seems like more scientists doing shit for no reason i I don't really understand.

20:27I've been reading the stories. I don't get why the science has been doing it. Why do they need the underwear to decompose? I didn't get it. Did you get it?

20:36Alice Fraser: I mean, the healthier the soil is, I just thought of a terrible joke that I'm not going to. I don't know. Do we have a rating on this show, Harry? The healthier the soil is, the more likely it is to chew up your underwear. Like the healthier your sex life is.

20:54Alice Fraser: Basically, it's important to know about soil health, just as it is important to know about your likelihood of getting haired on any given day. And you can determine that by the underwear. Yes. Not by like a dead body or something. I mean, I think if you buried a thousand dead bodies in different places, you'd have different issues on your hands. I guess that is more of an ethical issue, yeah, for science, yeah. um i mean i just follow on from the the whole you know scientists have uh too little to do now they're just bored um this feels like one of those stories that were born of the fact that one scientist from ran past another in a corridor uh and he said i've just soiled my underwear and the guy was like oh you're doing that experiment with the soil and the underwear and he was like oh yes yes that's that's what i meant um and this is what's happened as a result of that misunderstanding um which is apparently just that that soil likes fabric and cotton and will and will chew it up which seems kind of i don't know um like intuitive that that would happen because it's like a breathable fabric and so that's kind of healthy i guess on the real door i've been worried about soil for a while you know i mean i haven't seen a worm in ages i mean remember how many worms they used to be i don't see worms no more maybe i'm not an early bird so i don't I don't see them.

22:17Alice Fraser: How much time do you spend grubbing up? I mean, they just used to appear. I haven't been searching for a worm, but they just used to be about, I haven't seen a worm in a while. Yeah. Well, maybe you've got to bury some underpants. Here we go. Underpants vigilante. And because it's sort of an eco-focused experiment, they then used the decomposed undies to make a ball gown so that it wasn't fabric waste. They turned it into art. Who is going to wear that at the Met Gala? That feels like a Grimes situation maybe. Yeah, maybe Timothee Chalamet. Yeah. It does sound like all scientists are going through a midlife crisis.

22:56Underwear into dresses and I don't know.

22:59Alice Fraser: To be fair, yeah, I think all scientists are going through a crisis of funding, which is the same as a midlife crisis for more expensive. To be fair. Yeah. Speaking of expensive, now it's time for your reviews. Each week we ask our guest editors to bring in something to review out of five stars. Tom Neenan, what have you brought in for us this week? Previously on the show, I brought in a puzzle of my dog that I was putting together and sort of the kind of ethical quandary that that put me in because I was worried I wouldn't finish the puzzle and therefore that would have sort of dire consequences for my dog.

23:35Luckily, I finished the puzzle. That's a little update for everyone. So that's all OK. but I wanted to review the process of putting together puzzles because that it's a it starts off I'd say finding all the edges five stars absolutely then it plummets to one star as soon as you've got the edges and you actually have to start sort of filling out the middle it is a one star experience I absolutely detest it edging up to two or three stars when you start filling in elements um five stars is putting in the final puzzle piece that's the absolute final sort of thing. And then plummets once again to one star when you realize that you have spent all this time putting together an image that was available on the box.

24:17And no one knows what to do with puzzles. I think some people frame them. That's a thing that you can do, which does leave you vulnerable to earthquakes and things. That would be devastating. So you're sort of left with that one star experience of going, I put all this effort into making this picture I already had, and now I don't know what to do with it. So you sort of take a photo of it, but no one's impressed when you finished a puzzle. So I'd say overall puzzles are three stars, but is it worth the emotional rollercoaster that you go through in order to get it? I'd say no, but I'm going to do one, probably start another one tomorrow.

24:48So that is my puzzle review. Yeah, who are puzzles for? That is a fascinating question. Who needs the person to pick up a puzzle?

24:59Alice Fraser: Yeah. In reciprocal sympathy, can I review the experience of arriving at a new Airbnb that has kindly stocked for its guests a number of 1 ,000-piece puzzles? And then while you're unpacking your bag, having your two-and-a-half-year-old open up multiple 1 ,000-piece puzzles and scatter them through the Airbnb, so you as an ethical person now feel obliged to find.

25:28Alice Fraser: Hey y 'all, Kelly Clarkson here with Wayfair. You know my favorite compliment during the holidays? Your house feels so cozy. That's when I know everyone's comfortable enough to kick off their shoes, grab more dessert, and stay a little longer. Wayfair makes it easy, with everything from dining furniture to festive guest room essentials, all in one place. So whether you're hosting for an afternoon or all weekend, everyone feels right at home. Get holiday guests ready at Wayfair.com or on the Wayfair app today. Way fair, every style, every home. Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast.

26:00Summer is here, and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden, or maybe on the golf course, can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you. Oh my goodness.

26:37Alice Fraser: Tiny puzzle pieces and then figure out which puzzle they go into because you don't want to have on your conscience the experience of someone else deciding to do a thousand piece puzzle while on holiday and ending up with a 999 piece puzzle. the worst wow so you have to do multiple puzzles in order to sort them into their respective bags and then help some poor future person we're not even there yet at the moment we're just still finding pieces we got to do the puzzles yeah we got to figure it make sure that there are enough puzzle pieces uh so like first of all the experience hunting puzzle pieces quite satisfying when you find them uh terrifying if it looks like they might be bent or have been put in the toilet They have not been put in the toilet.

27:17Alice Fraser: We're going to be okay. We're going to solve this problem. I'm still at the stage of hope where this is an achievable thing. We've got two weeks. I think luckily they are different size pieces. The two puzzles that have been quite distinguishable. So you're not trying to figure them out on the specifics of actually having to do the 1 ,000-piece puzzles. But what I do need to do is find 2 ,000 puzzle pieces and put them in the correct puzzle boxes. Oh, boy. which is in some ways easier and in some ways harder than doing a puzzle. Michael, what have you brought in for us this week? I've been sort of taken by the bug of like anti-technology technology, right?

27:59So I bought a phone lockbox. So it's like you want to not use your phone, so you buy a piece of gadget to not use your phone with. So it's, have you ever heard, it's like a phone jail. still so I put I put I put my phone in there right and I and I lock it up but then it's like I want to use my phone still so then I have to break open the lock to use it and then you kind of end up feeling worse about yourself and then you've still bought more technology that you have to use and and and and then I guess it's better off using your phone less rather than buying a piece of tech to use your phone less more i don't know if i explained that well at all um but that

28:44Alice Fraser: that's where i'm and then i have to rate that yeah out of five five stars i'll still buy it again i kind of like i like i like gadgets that try and make you use gadgets less still i saw someone on instagram who posted one of these lock boxes had posted a photo of the lock box and gone just put put my phone in there and immediately feeling calmer and i was like how have you posted this how is it was it was a proper like piece of paradoxical uh posting that i found very confusing well you know i use mine sometimes when i uh sleep which is probably the most useful useless time to use it but then i was like what if somebody breaks into my house and i need to call the police.

29:33Alice Fraser: Then you have to ask them to break into the lockbox. Yeah. Can you break in here first or do you mind waiting seven hours? Like, can you give me like a little bit of a head start? I don't know. But I just love Instagram, TikTok gadgets. I just love them. And that brings us to our final story of this week's episode of The Gargle. And this is the news that apparently African wild dogs are trekking thousands of kilometers to find dates, to find their mates in life. And, like, I feel in a world of Tinder and Grindr and swiping and convenience and frictionless life, this is an aspirational goal for all of us.

30:16Alice Fraser: May we all, I mean, don't the Proclaimers have a song about it? May we all trek thousands of miles to find a mate. Michael, how do you feel about this story? I mean, it's very human of these dogs. It's very Gen Z of these dogs, right? They just want friends too. Do you know what I mean? And so they're traveling thousands of miles. I wish there was like an African dog sort of FaceTime. Do you know what I mean? I wish that they had a means that they didn't have to do that. But it kind of makes me feel like bad at the extent that I cancel on my friends. Because sometimes that's the best part of my day when plans get canceled.

30:58even plans that I made. So now I see these dogs go in the extra mile. It makes me think maybe I should too.

31:06Alice Fraser: The extra 2 ,500 miles. There's a lot of miles. I think there were three brothers that went, I think, across 4 ,126 kilometres over eight months, which is the longest recorded dispersal. I feel like that's a very nice, like, you're right, Michael, this does make me think about the loneliness epidemic. that's just a nice thing for some brothers to do isn't it but what are they doing when they like get together well they're mating they're finding they're finding a lady lady lady dogs oh okay i would have done this i would yeah if i needed to do that i would travel um enter the earth so yeah no for sure what these wolves have basically done or these dogs is done like they've just act they've acted on the promise that people make when they're really drunk which is like all three of us road trip.

31:55No, I'm like, we're going to do a proper road trip and we're going to go right across, going to cross the whole continent. It's going to be amazing. And these dogs, God bless them, they actually did it. They actually, they went looking for it. They are, they're looking for ladies. And hopefully they're doing it in a, you know, sort of a respectful way, but yeah, they, they just, they're on a road trip. I bet that, you know, and I absolutely, I think this has Pixar written all over it. The three brothers on a road trip looking for ladies. This is.

32:21Alice Fraser: They have the Pixar short up the front and then up the back end, they have the adult short, which is just a big gangbang.

32:33Alice Fraser: Apparently wild dogs live in these very strict hierarchical packs where only the dominant couple breeds within the pack and everyone else goes short. So they go as far away as they can to become dominant in their own pack. Oh. And then they gain - Otherwise they just have to watch. Yeah. Yeah, well, you can either wait until the elderly ones shuffle off the banging coil. I don't think they even have to die. They just get too old to be dominant. Or you can gain what's called inclusive fitness by helping relatives inside the pack so that you're more likely to become dominant later by being helpful to your relatives or you disperse in search of more immediate breeding opportunities.

33:13Alice Fraser: So that's when you go on a motorcycle and you're like, but daddy, he's playing the guitar. That's basically that. but this is what scientists should be doing watching dogs fucking this is what i want why you burying soil burying underwear this is what i want this is the one science story that you're like yeah i get it i see it i love those dogs like moving to be an alpha that is a real like um when i go off to university i'm going to be so different like i'm going to be i'm going to move away from home and i'm going to be like so cool and i'm going to reinvent myself and it's like you'll just be the same dog you're not going to be you're not going to change or the same dog underneath yeah yeah there's uh yeah so we all do that we all have these moments in our lives where we realize that we are who we are wherever we go that brings us to the end of this week's episode of the gargle and flipping through the ad section at the back michael where can people find and support you online you can find me on the instagrams or michael the wale comedy post all my dates on there and things like that yeah very nice tom neenan where can people support your work uh at tp neenan on on instagram and i've oh i've done the thing i've got a sub stack haven't i because i'm that person so at t neenan on sub stack i've been posting poetry on there because either you embrace the cringe or the cringe embraces you um and i decided to just i decided to go all out and just be awful so um why not follow me on there and and we can all suffer together genuinely that sounds like exactly the thing that i want to do and i will subscribe i also have a sub stack but i mainly cross post from my patreon when i remember to so if you want like my patreon but slightly less frequent uh you can subscribe at my my sub stack but uh patreon.com slash alice fraser is where you can find me um you can subscribe there for free or for money if you subscribe for money you can get access to my twice weekly writers meetings uh poetry mondays various other exciting things that are happening over at patreon.com slash alicefraser and there's a lovely community of nice people there which is actually really like sweet and supportive which makes me feel like really smug that i have made space for people to be nice to each other i don't know but i'm like that's me being nice or like i feel like i feel like i get reflected glow of other people being nice to each other by virtue of how nice the community is to one another.

35:35Alice Fraser: But this is a Bugle Podcast and Alice Fraser production. Your editor is Harry Gordon. Your executive producer is Chris Skinner. And I'll talk to you again next time.

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