POV Beauty’s Mikayla Nogueira unpacks her creator-brand playbook with CEO and co-founder Ani Hadjinian

0:07Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Glossy Beauty Podcast, a show about the business of beauty and wellness. I'm your host, Glossy's West Coast correspondent, Lexi Lebsack. We have a very special episode for you today. I am coming to you from our Glossy Beauty and Wellness Summit. Our annual summit is hosted by our editorial team, including myself. It takes place in the beginning of November, each year and always in a new West Coast city. I can't recommend attending more if you can. It's designed for beauty and wellness industry executives, and we program three days of panels and fireside chats with business leaders from top brands and retailers, plus workshops, activities, tons of networking, and honestly, so much more.

0:52Today, I am taking you right to the main stage for a conversation from day one with the team behind POV Beauty, the cosmetics brand that launched just last year and quickly entered all Sephora stores across the US and Canada in September. You probably know POV Beauty from its founder, creator Michaela Naguera. She joined the stage alongside her co-founder and the CEO of POV Beauty, Ani Hajinian, to discuss how they translate real-time community engagement into things like ingredient formulation and inventory forecasting, plus a lot more. Mikayla also shared the origin story of how she got into beauty, which I'd never heard and was very interesting.

1:38This talk was moderated by Glossy's longtime editor-in-chief, Jill Manoff, and I'm so happy to bring it to you today. Here is our fireside chat with Mikayla, Ani, and Jill.

1:56Hello. What a way to kick things off. Hi, you guys. How are you?

2:01Mikayla Nogueira: Good. How are you? So good. Well, Michaela, you've been doing this a while. Let's start with you. I want to talk about founding the brand. Let's circle back to the beginning. You obviously have tried a lot of brands, a lot of products, worked with a lot of companies. You saw a white space and a reason to do something else. What did you see? Well, a lot of people think I had this idea to create a brand when I was a creator, but the idea actually came when I was working in beauty retail. Now, obviously at the time, I didn't think that would ever come to fruition, so it's crazy to be sitting here talking about this.

2:37Mikayla Nogueira: But when I was working in beauty retail, I noticed that I don't, my personal opinion, I don't think we're necessarily missing a lot. There's so much product to consume. What's missing is the way we go about creating the innovation and bringing it to market. So what I noticed working at the beauty retail store was people would come in and there was so much intimidation and confusion around beauty. I find that, you know, you walk into Ulta, you walk into Sephora, it's overwhelming the amount of product. And a lot of times people have the same concerns about the way their makeup looks, how their makeup's sitting, their makeup's not reaching its full potential.

3:18Mikayla Nogueira: And there's a lot of confusion around how do I make my makeup look its best? Even though all of the solutions are right in the store, it's how do you get to that point? I found that to be very confusing for a lot of consumers. So with POV, I wanted to create something that, one, made you feel like you could be your own makeup artist at home. I wanted to give you the tools that are most important to an MUA, which is the prep behind the makeup. And then I wanted to remove the intimidation that comes with walking into a beauty store. So POV was designed with this idea that it would go into a retail store to take away the intimidation.

4:04Mikayla Nogueira: So if you go into Sephora and you walk up to the point of view gondola, it's very well laid out. It's simple. It's educational. And it helps you build your routine right there in one place versus having to walk all over the place to build a routine, if that makes sense. And then also just the innovation. Our products are made in Korea. And I spent a lot of two years to create the products to build something that was actually unique and not just your moisturizer, your toner, or your serum, there's actually some complexity to the products that you can't get from other skincare. For sure. Just the skin prep.

4:40Yes. And to the naming convention, was that all basically educational component? Because I've become a fan of the Amp It and I'm like, well, I want to amp, I want to amp it up. But you tell me.

4:50Mikayla Nogueira: So it kind of goes along this idea of simplifying things. That's also why the packaging is so simple. When you walk into beauty stores, it's just an explosion of branding, marketing. POV is very simple because it's easy to digest. That was very intentional. And then the names, I wanted to do a nomenclature that was easy to remember the routine. So if you purchase the entire routine and you're wondering, what is the order? You know, it's drench it, drip it, whip it, glaze it. You know, it's like, once you remember that, you'll never forget it. Yes. Yeah. Oh my God. That's so fun. You should, we should make a rap song about it or something.

5:34But just wait, we're working on one. Oh, I didn't know. Ani, you have a different background. You have an extensive background. Let's talk about how you got here. And I would love to dig in to kind of what was surprising going for it from a more traditional brand to working with a creator turned founder? I think the most surprising was there's like no dress rehearsal, right? I think in traditional brand building, there is a pretty distinct sort of line of who the customer is and who the sort of the builders are effectively. Here, you're building the brand from day one in public. And so every decision you've made until then and every decision after is being scrutinized in public.

6:22And every mistake is being amplified like 10x. And so I think what's really interesting is someone looking in might think like from a creator-led brand, people will maybe trade rigor for reach. And in fact, to me, it's like totally the opposite. You have to have the fundamentals just locked down. You have to have the core rigor of how to create a brand, launch products far more than what I had to do with the traditional sort of brand building. So it's very, very, very different. And, you know, you're, you kind of have to have a stomach for it, you know? Yes. For sure. Well, Michaela, your background, again, very different, non-traditional.

7:10Where do you like, when you think about where your education came from, I'm sure you learn a lot from your followers, but I would love to hear.

7:18Mikayla Nogueira: So a lot of people don't know this, but my beginning in makeup was actually in special effects. I worked for 10 years at a haunted house doing special effects makeup on cast members. Most people don't know that. So that's when I kind of got excited about makeup. My dad ran the haunted house, so I would go with him every day to watch the cast and see how it worked. and I saw the makeup artists doing the cast and I was so fascinated by it. So I just asked him one day, can I just like watch and maybe participate a little, even though I had no makeup knowledge at all. And he said, sure, you can. So for a couple of years, I just kind of shadowed.

8:01Mikayla Nogueira: And then I began, I got my own chair and I started doing it myself for a few years. So that's kind of how I got my start. And then obviously a few years later, I decided to work at Ulta Beauty. So So that was where I gained a lot of information and a lot of education. I'm very, I obviously love makeup and I do a full beat every day, but I also love product. So a lot of people ask, why did you want to work at a beauty retail store versus say, be like a freelance makeup artist? And for me, it was product. I love product. And I love how when I was working at Ulta, I'm constantly surrounded by new innovation and the brands and just learning how all those brands worked made such a difference.

8:42Mikayla Nogueira: And then as I began on TikTok and doing social media, it was valuable to me to be working at Alta and doing social media at the same time. I feel like that gave me an advantage at the time because I was seeing everything in the beauty world happening in real time online and in store. So I learned a lot that way as well. And then as I've built the community I have now of over 17 million followers, every day I'm seeing my community share what they're looking for, what they think is missing, what innovation they think has gone too far, or where can we innovate more. And I think that that's very valuable too.

9:23Right on. For somebody that's probably inundated with products upon products, you must have this passion to still be like, I love products.

9:30Mikayla Nogueira: I've tried thousands and thousands of products, but I would say the double-edged sword of that is as a brand founder and creator who is trying every single product, trying every single brand, that puts a different type of pressure on me as a founder to produce. Yes. Because as I'm creating products in the lab and experimenting with formula, I'm comparing it to the thousands of products I've tried, which has made it exponentially more difficult to finalize a formula for me. Oh, no doubt. I'm very picky, which Ani probably hates and appreciates. We love that. We love that. Well, how do you guys think about trend?

10:16because you do see what's happening in the market. And Ani, when we did this event last year, I think one of the top challenges people talked about was keeping up with the trend cycle. Things are moving quicker than ever. Yeah. Is that a goal for you guys or how do you think about it? I mean, you know, we're definitely looking at trends, but for us, like we try to like, our focus is building longevity, right? And so within that, it's really looking at the core of what people are really looking for. And I think trend comes and goes. And we're actually very particular. And I'll give this full credit to Michaela because she'll pick something up, kind of going back to her, you know, thousands of iterations of trying product.

10:58She has literally done her 10 ,000 hours worth of, you know, sort of effort on product creation. And she'll pick up a product and an instant she will tell you, no, this is a trend that will like leave within 10 seconds. And so she already comes with that filter. And so for us, it's sort of like an easy one to be like, yeah, this is an easy one. If you want to do like a limited life, we can like drop it in and out. But like, that's not really our intention, right? Our intention is to continue to anchor on what we're trying to build, which is, you know, products that truly do break through. And, you know, I think Michaela didn't give herself enough credit in the beginning where her vision was launching in white space.

11:45And I think people sort of like, once you launch something into white space, it's just so obvious, you don't even think about it. But to get to that level is quite sophisticated and it's really hard, particularly when you have a sea of products that already exist. And to break through that and to come up with a category that can sort of exist, but you've kind of created a system that is brand new, is really hard to do. And I think you can only get there because you've sort of iterated so many times. And I think when you put yourself through that lens for every single product creation, trends just don't even stand up to that quality of what you're trying to do.

12:24And so for us, we look at product development through a completely different lens, which is, you know, obviously a lot of it comes from Michaela's sort of iterations and what she's looking to do. Yeah, it might be one of the answers to my questions for you, Michaela, because I'm sure you've seen a lot of fellow creator-founded brands come and go, not great. But when it comes to building a brand with longevity, what is the differentiator, would you say?

12:54Mikayla Nogueira: Well, one of the biggest things when we were sitting down creating Point of View, the first thing I said was my name cannot be the brand. Like, I don't want this to be Michaela Jane Beauty or Michaela Beauty or anything with my name, because I knew that I wanted the brand to be so much bigger than me. And I think when, if I were to do Michaela Beauty or something along those lines, it automatically puts you in this box that I did not want to be in. And Ani knows, we went through, when I say hundreds of names, I mean hundreds of names because I wanted a name that spoke to the people, not to just me, but to everyone.

13:38Mikayla Nogueira: And I'll never forget when we landed on point of view and we were thinking of all the ways that phrase can mean so many things, especially in beauty, right? Everyone has a beauty point of view. Everyone has a different point of view on how they wear makeup, how they buy makeup, what products they use. It's just such a special name in terms of what we're trying to achieve as a brand, which is to explore your own beauty point of view. And I think that that, first, is going to be massive for us as we grow because we've built this community where people genuinely feel like they can share their POV and they're not going to be judged.

14:21Mikayla Nogueira: They're not going to feel like they're unheard. We have an app called My POV. It's absolutely amazing. Thousands of people are on it. And if you go on this app, it's every day people sharing their makeup, their techniques, their tips. It's just the coolest thing to see the community on there. And I think that by building that so early on, this like very strong, loyal community, that's going to set us up for success. I think we want to write about that app. I don't even think I knew about that. You got to check it out. It's really cool. Oh, my gosh. What a great idea. Yeah. Thank you. Ani, I have to ask you, on the back end or operationally, speaking of longevity, how would you say you're setting this brand up for success?

15:04So I look at it through three different sort of lenses, right? I think one is talent and people. And particularly being like socially native and creator commerce led, I think it's important to have a cross category of experts in the room, right? So we have people who really know TikTok shop well. We know people who are content creators. We have people who are brand builders. We have people who scale businesses and we have people who have run retail businesses. So it's important to have the different variety of people and their special expertise. I think it's not only the people. But then once they're in, it's how do you cultivate that?

15:47How do you create the culture so that they can truly thrive? I think the second piece is what I call rhythm. And rhythm is what gives you speed and for you to kind of consistently deliver and do things. And so we run off of, it's called OKRs, Objectives and Key Results. And it's very clear on what the objectives are and what the key metrics are that we're going to basically measure how we're going to get there. And we run it on a three-month sprint. So it allows us to be like, here's our next hard focus for the next three months. This is what we're all aligned on, super clear. Once it's done, next, we're running to the next thing.

16:28And so it's sort of on this very sort of rapid scale because we are scaling really fast. And the third piece is kind of what Michaela was just talking about, right, which goes back to what's capabilities that you're going to really curate and build internally that becomes a true asset versus what you're going to effectively outsource because it's not really necessarily worth the time. And one of them early on, we made a decision. I mean, she and I were going back and forth on community. It's like, well, where does it lie? Do you lie on this? And we were like, you know what? It's way too important for it to be leased or rented.

16:59We want to own it. And so we invested in creating the app internally. Same with brand building. We have a whole internal creative team that helps with the brand build. That's not something that will ever get outsourced. And similarly with product development, product development is so key to everything that we do. And so all of that is sort of internalized. A lot of these, some of the other elements of operations can be, but I think really early on figuring out what's most important and bringing that internally is really the key. Yes. Well, considering both of your expertise, would love to know, and you've got this benefit of this amazing, amazing following.

17:36Like to what extent as you're working on something new and you kind of decided we want to go there, are you, I don't know, checking in with your followers or including them in the process, asking them if they would like it, all those things?

17:51Mikayla Nogueira: Well, so I know a lot of brands think it's taboo to like reveal what they're working on because people will like take their ideas and everything. But But I definitely let people in a little bit more, a little bit close to comfort, because I think it doesn't hurt to just ask. Yeah. I always love to just ask my community, what are you looking for? What are you craving in the beauty world? What can we create? Because I think something I'm trying to balance as a brand founder is creating a brand product-wise that is authentic to the way I do makeup and products that I would actually use. I think that just makes sense.

18:33Mikayla Nogueira: But also creating products that the community is seeking. And where is the balance there? So that's why I love to talk to my community. You know, one of the big conversations right now is how we're removing talc from a lot of products. So I'm just asking my community, you know, I would love to create a powder one day, but it's likely going to be talc-free. What are the things you love about a talc-free powder or a powder with talc? And how can I create something that you're going to love? I just I love asking those questions to my community because that's going to lead to the breakthrough that we're looking for.

19:08Mikayla Nogueira: We also love to do early testing of our products by consumers. So where we send our products to consumers way before we're going to launch so they can actually try it. And that's helpful as well because you can work for something for one, two years. But if you don't let anyone try it before you launch it, how do you truly know if anyone's going to even like it? So that makes a big difference for us as well because if we send this out to them early, they can give us immense feedback that we may even take that product back to the lab and re-figure it out. so that it's perfect. Yeah, makes good sense.

19:47When it comes to, gosh, I want to say like the outcome of that, the results, Ani, I hear a lot from founders, CEOs about the fact that, you know, customers, consumers say they want something, but then we launch it and they didn't really want it. Like, how has it panned out? How has it fared for you guys? You know, it's an interesting balance because I think, you know, especially in the world of when things can go viral, I think keeping it very sort of, I would say, habit-based and systemic is sort of the approach we try to take, which is, you know, engagement does not necessarily equal demand or your forecast.

20:30And so I think for us, it's really taking it with a grain of salt. I think it's information and I think it's insight. But I think you really have to build it to where you think the potential is based on where the markets are trending. And so for us, you know, I think it's like I said, I think having moments where we have millions of views, which we've had, we've had so many engaged audiences. But again, that doesn't necessarily go one to one of what is actually going to convert. And so you sort of have to effectively build habits because what we're building for is the customer who's going to come back the third and fourth time.

21:12We're not necessarily building for the customer who's going to come back the first time. Because, I mean, that's like the first time is the sort of the quote unquote easy part, right? I think it's the habits that you sort of build for people to come back. That's the real challenge. Makes good sense. We are so running out of time. And I was going to say, what's your five-year plan? But no, tell me what's next. Rapid fire. What would you say is next? What are you excited about? We just raised our Series A. So for us, it's focus and scale. Yes. Right on. And Mikayla, kind of the long game, what's the kind of hope and dream for this brand?

21:46Mikayla Nogueira: My hope would be to obviously succeed in Sephora. I think that would be something to really look forward to, and I know we will. And then I always say for POV, my goal is to create a brand that you don't aspire to be someone else. You aspire to be yourself. and if I can inspire one person to take that to heart and be who they are without feeling pressure, then I've done my job. You guys, congrats on all your early success. Excited to follow all of the success and thank you for being here. Let's keep making a lot of your hands. Thanks for having me.

22:28And thank you for listening to this episode of the Glossy Beauty Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening. And for even more coverage on the beauty industry and more, please visit glossy.co slash beauty.