6 new things we saw at New York Fashion Week

0:05Jill Manoff: Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our editor-in-chief, Jill Manoff. Hello, Jill.

0:13Danny Parisi: Hi. How was your fashion week?

0:16Jill Manoff: It was good. It was so nice seeing you. We ran into each other at the RetroFet show. We obviously were both at the Glossy Pop NYC event, so I saw you twice this week, which was fun.

0:25Danny Parisi: That was wild. Yeah, so good to see you.

0:28Jill Manoff: Yes, and this week we are discussing New York Fashion Week because we're recording this Wednesday morning. It just ended. We wanted to do a quick recap of some of the things we saw at New York Fashion Week this season. And particularly, we thought we would structure this conversation around what's new? What are some new things we saw? So we each have collected three things that are new, that we saw something that was unusual or exciting. And we don't know what each other's three. I think you know what one of mine is, the first one. What each of our three new things is. We may overlap, we may not.

1:01Jill Manoff: But let's just start discussing. The one that you know, because we talked about it beforehand, is the first new thing that I saw was the president of the CFDA getting into a violent altercation with the protester. That's definitely something I have not seen. It never happened?

1:15Danny Parisi: What?

1:16Jill Manoff: I've never seen that at Fashion Week before. But yeah, this week, and probably a lot of listeners have already heard about this, but Stephen Kolb, who is the president of the CFDA, during a COS show, was recorded getting into a pretty aggressive-looking altercation with protesters from PETA who had disrupted the show. In the clips I saw, he can be seen restraining them, covering their mouths, pressing him against the wall at one point sitting with his leg over someone like and covering their mouth and uh yeah it was i mean even if you disagree that or even if you agree that the you know disrupting the show was bad or whatever and one of those people removed i don't think it's a good look for the president himself to be physically involving himself i don't know it was just an odd decision i think what do you think joe i think touching another human

2:12Danny Parisi: let's think twice regard any circumstance and I don't know what was going through his head honestly I feel like there's probably no excuse I was thinking of any other instance where Pita has run out in the hallway and into a runway and where somebody has kind of had to interject and the only thing that came to mind was I think it was a Chanel show and I think like Gigi Hadid or one of the Hadid sisters kind of like walked them over to the side. It was very like, no, we're going over here. There was no pushing or fighting or elbowing or whatever we just did here.

2:48Jill Manoff: Yeah. And the odd thing to me from seeing some of the video is there is a security team and you can see them like escorting people out. So if it was me and, you know, I'm not the president of CFDA, but if I was, I feel like I would just sit back and kind of let the security team handle it because I don't think any, there's no controversy about a security guard escorting somebody out, you know? It's like the president himself getting involved and it just was not a good look. After this incident, he has since apologized. He posted on his Instagram story. He is on leave as of now. He had already been talking about potentially retiring soon in recent months.

3:28Jill Manoff: So I wonder if he's even gonna come back.

3:31Danny Parisi: I didn't realize the retirement. That's interesting. I have a hunch you are right.

3:35Jill Manoff: He had just said it in an interview that he was thinking about maybe like letting someone else take over sometime soon. And I mean, now is a good excuse.

3:43Danny Parisi: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, how many times have we seen Stephen Kolb in the front row? Like he's been to a lot of shows. I'm sure he's seen PETA at a lot of shows, as we all have. I mean, this has been going on for decades. I can remember when going to the DKNY show and they were chanting. I wrote it down. I was like, DKNY, how many animals have to die? Like it was in my head for like months because they just said it so many times. It's catchy. But anyway, yeah, they really, they've been around. And I think that we know like they have become more maybe intrusive in the runway shows and run across runways and held signs.

4:24Danny Parisi: And I mean, not great for the designer, obviously. But there's a lot of leather going around. a lot of things that Peter probably hates, that they do hate. So anyway, I just would say it's come to be expected at this point in time. And for whatever, I don't know if you can say that, but I would just say harmless in the overall scheme of things. Like they're not going to hurt somebody. So yeah, it did seem like an extreme measure. I don't think he'll be back either. Yeah, it was a really bad look.

4:54Jill Manoff: And like you said, I've seen him at many shows. I've met him. I've interviewed him. I saw him at the Kallmeyer show a couple of days before sitting across from me, and he was just very calm and mild mannered. He also and the New York Times reported this. He is a vegetarian and is also instrumental in the CFDA not promoting fur on the runway anymore. And this season was actually the first one since that decision was made where there was no fur in any of the official calendar shows. So it is a little ironic that right at this kind of like big moment for doing less animal cruelty on the runway, this occurred.

5:32Jill Manoff: So yeah, I don't know if he'll be back. But one more thing, and you're right, I've seen disruptions before, and I'm probably, I'm vegetarian too, and I'm probably more sympathetic than some other people would be. But I feel like a lot of times you kind of just let it go. And then, like you said, I've never seen the protesters harm anybody or anything like that. So it's, obviously, if I was the designer, I would be pretty annoyed. but I feel like a lot of times it passes by without much incident. And I think this made it into a way bigger deal than it needed to be.

6:05Danny Parisi: Totally. And I'd be annoyed at my PR. How'd they get in here without a ticket? Yes.

6:10Jill Manoff: Yeah. That, that too. Okay. Let's, let's talk about another new thing. How about you share one? What's, what's something new you saw?

6:19Danny Parisi: Yeah, I've got a lot of things, but I would just say one thing that was noticeable to me, and I don't know if I want to call it wearability or practicality, but, um, you know, things seemed a little bit more casual. And to me that red is, um, accessible and maybe it's a, a sign of the times in terms of the economy. But, um, I would say more brands offering something, uh, that you would probably wear in everyday life and maybe offering an entry point to the brand. And that came to mind because when I was talking to the designers behind Tanner Fletcher, Tanner and Fletcher, um, they were talking about their, the t-shirt that they have, that this for them wasn't new, but they were talking about that it's a hot seller.

6:59Danny Parisi: It's under$200, maybe 160, and that they are doing it in new ways every season. Other examples, Sergio Hudson, I think of his gowns and his structured suits. He had a knit cardigan that maybe I hadn't seen before. And Campilo had a graphic tee, a lot of graphic tees, which don't know him for that. Jeans at Altazara, that felt new. A lot of jeans at Retrofit. They've had jeans before, but it seemed like an abundance of jeans, a whole kind of section of jeans. And then Swim, Swim also at Tanner Fletcher, which seemed they hadn't done Swim before. It is kind of a more casual, more affordable option.

7:39Danny Parisi: And speaking of like an entry point to the brand more. I don't know that I wouldn't, I'm not sure that there's more beauty compared to prior seasons, but among the shows I went to, I would say, yes, Tibby was introducing a fragrance with Abel. It was a kind of a collab selling, selling for 220. It's not cheap, but when you compare it to something like a blazer or a dress definitely offers another option. And Goop, Goop Beauty showed up at the Gwen collection presentation. And obviously that's something that's more accessible. And it was getting some attention on site. So I would just say it felt like less out of touch, less high, high fashion.

8:25Danny Parisi: It felt, and it didn't make it boring in my eyes. It felt like maybe this is something that I could buy next season as somebody that likes their Zara prices.

8:34Jill Manoff: Yeah, no, I think those are both great points. I agree. I definitely noticed more accessible clothing as of so we're recording this Wednesday later today. I'm going to interview Michael Bastian from Brooks Brothers. But I did see that their show, I mean, they had lots of they obviously do suits and tailoring, but they had a lot of casual clothes, a lot of fun, like 80s kind of sportswear, I would say. I agree with that. I didn't go to the true religion thing, but I believe they have fragrance too. And that's a pretty big thing for them. Yes. At least last season, I know that fragrance was a big part of their Fashion Week presence.

9:11Jill Manoff: So yeah, definitely a lot more casualization that I saw.

9:14Danny Parisi: Yeah, it felt good.

9:18Jill Manoff: Another new thing that I saw was I felt like a lot more old and new clothing mixed together. and like not everything being only like the newest stuff from this season. So you mentioned Tanner Fletcher. I also went to their presentation, which was delightful. They had a lot of vintage decor and vintage clothes mixed in with their new things. It was in their showroom. And I think a lot of that was just part of it. But I was talking with the designers about how they sell vintage stuff that they collect and source. And that's like part of their business. I also saw, I don't know if you went to the Sanderlack presentation, but they had the newest, They had the newest collection presented alongside their last two or three collections were all there.

9:58Jill Manoff: And it was I think the idea was to show kind of the evolution of the brand. And it was all like, I don't know. I think sometimes the focus on newness means like anything from a previous season just gets like, you know, forgotten about. So I thought that was cool. And then one more thing that I felt like hit on this theme was eBay has this big showcase and auction. And that's not new. They've done it before. But I feel like there was a ton of participation from big brands. Jenna Lyons curated this auction and they had pieces from Calvin Klein, DVF, Michael Kors, Parenza Shuler, Tommy Hilfiger, Vera Wang, and Willie Chavaria that were contributed from those designers.

10:35Jill Manoff: Like it wasn't sourced from eBay. It was it came from the brands or from the designers archives. So I felt like the eBay thing is not new, but it seemed like a lot more like big designers and brands are actively participating and they're showing vintage stuff on the runway and you can buy it after. So I don't know. I liked the mixing of old and new at a couple different shows I went to.

10:55Danny Parisi: Yeah, maybe that speaks to what I was saying regarding accessibility in terms of more affordability. Yeah, so interesting.

11:03Jill Manoff: Yeah, and I also think it reflects how people actually dress, which is you're not buying only new things. And one of the designers from Tanner Fletcher, I believe it was Fletcher Cassell, I think that's how you say his last name, told me that that's like kind of the idea behind their vintage stuff is like no one is buying head to toe new clothing from one brand only. They're mixing it with archival stuff. They're mixing it with things from their grandmother or whatever. So to your point about like casualization or the weak feeling like it was more in tune with how people actually dress, I think the mixing in of older, either vintage stuff or from even just from a couple of seasons ago that felt in line with that too.

11:48Danny Parisi: I would say, I agree. Hey, we are in sync. I like it. Yeah. I would say my other one, again, not brand new, but I would say done in a more accentuated or definite way. Storytelling. I feel like there was more storytelling in ways that were less expected. for example, Theory. I always go to the Theory. They kind of do a press preview in their showroom and Duchesne Noble, their creative director. He usually kind of walks me through a couple of racks of clothes. And it's always a great opportunity to learn about his mindset and what he's thinking for the season. He's so good to us. He always gives me a lot of time.

12:31Danny Parisi: This season, they still had it in their showroom. They had us sitting on benches. They did a runway style. However, his voice was over the music and he was explaining what he was thinking for each look. And I was like, what's kind of a good way to get the most bang for your buck or pack a punch in terms of getting in all of their objectives. I thought it was really smart. And this kind of happened, or I saw the storytelling in a couple of other ways. Like you mentioned, Tanner Fletcher, you walk into their presentation room, their showroom, you walk into their world. It's all of the vintage elements.

13:05Danny Parisi: It feels very, almost you're walking into your grandmother's attic or something. I don't know. It's just like a lot of really interesting pieces that aren't all of theirs. Buck Mason did something similar. I talked to their head of women's design, Rachel Wilder Hill, and just her being there, it paints the lifestyle. She's clearly the Buck Mason girl. They're dubbing who they're dressing the California tomboy. They have loafers there that were not theirs. They sell vintage Hermes bags. And just like, it's like, again, all of the pieces that feel Buck Mason. It's got utility. It's got, it all feels very original and vintage.

13:47Danny Parisi: So anyway, just like walking into these worlds, beautiful storytelling. I felt like these were more built out than in seasons past where it's just like clothes on a rack. It's like we're painting a lifestyle. And similarly, these are not brands, but in terms of events that I went to, like Poshmark and MyTheresa as well, they kind of built their events into a 360 degree advertising campaign, like the event played into it. MyTheresa is doing a campaign with Chloe Sevigny that really speaks to self-expression and individuality. And they did a little event with her at Cafe Chelsea, I think it's called.

14:33Danny Parisi: And yes, they were kind of playing that up with kind of her vibe because anyway, to show off her self-expression. And similarly for Poshmark, they have a campaign running now, Try Yourself On. And they had a whole kind of dry cleaner situation. And I was talking with Elizabeth Vandergolds and she was saying that the clothing really speaks to like the dry cleaning situation speaks to you only get the best clothes that you want to wear dry cleaned, really that you want to wear again and again, and you value them that much. And it's about kind of like, yeah, trying, trying something new or really just like holding onto the things you love, being true to you because you love these things.

15:16Danny Parisi: So anyway, the storytelling was awesome. A lot of storytelling opportunities because these smaller brands want to talk more. And I felt like more brands were doing that. And it reminded me of Henry Zankoff back in the day when I met with him. He was telling me his whole story about knitwear and how he's doing it differently. And that just reminds me of like how he's really risen through the ranks. Like you spend that time, you do all that storytelling, you do your due diligence and now you have your own brand that's successful. Now you're DVF's creative director and you're just really, anyway, I feel like that's a great starting point.

15:50Danny Parisi: And Kate Hundley spent a lot of time with me this season. Caroline Zimbalist, I think is how you say her name, spent a lot of time with me and they're brand new and they really spent their quality time with the editors to say, this is what I'm doing. This is my point of view. That storytelling moment was really, anyway, valuable to me. And I think that it's sunken into my brain how they're different.

16:13Jill Manoff: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's such an interesting point. I was thinking about storytelling moments that I saw and one that comes to mind is going to the Kallmeier show, which at every seat, they had a full print magazine. I saved it. I think it's like 100 something pages or something. It's got beautiful photography. It's got interviews with friends of the brand, like Chloe Fineman from SNL and other... Some of them were people that you would know and others were like, you know, an interview with our, you know, VP of merchandising or something like that. But like beautiful photography, interesting, you know, bits about the inspiration behind the collection, interviews with people in the world of the brand.

16:55Jill Manoff: And it did such a good job because it's a brand that I wasn't super familiar with when I went. And while I was waiting for the show to start, I just flipped through the whole thing. I feel like I got such a good idea of the vibe and the aesthetic and the inspirations, a little bit about the designer herself. That was very cool. And I'm sure it wasn't cheap because it's really nice looking like full, you know, it's a thick, heavy magazine. So that was a cool idea.

17:21Danny Parisi: So cool. That's interesting. And related, like my Teresa had, it was more like a, like it was something, a pamphlet, mini magazine you'd get in the mail, like a mailer. But the head of their events, who's brand new to the company, is from Condé Nast. And she was kind of like, that's my, that's my baby. Like she was excited to have that there to storytell. And similarly, Gwen, Gwyneth Paltrow's brand had kind of a newspaper style takeaway that you could have. And I always post about it. I really like Joseph Altuzara always, always puts the book that inspired his collection on the seats. And he does the cutest thing.

17:59Danny Parisi: And I've saved them for seasons and seasons. He kind of does little clippings and like highlights things in the books. And it's kind of like a little crafty, little crafty elements in there that looks like you were part of the inspo. So definitely a storytelling moment, too.

18:14Jill Manoff: Yeah. Well, and also it feels good to be prioritized as a journalist and editor over like kind of influencers and content creators, because I do think that's important. Brands, we are important. One more new thing that I saw, I feel like this kind of ties into your second point about these 360 degree events. a lot more parties. And obviously there's always parties, some unofficial and some official. I felt like this season, there were way more official parties. Like I got invited to like come to our official after party and RSVP here. And just looking at my inbox, there were so many like Advisory, Kendra Scott, J.Crew and Ecoslada, Net-A-Porter, Montclair, Timberland, which was not a brand that was showing, I don't think.

18:58Jill Manoff: And to make sure this wasn't just me, I was like searching around And Vogue actually published a story this morning, Wednesday, like a trend report from New York Fashion Week. And they mentioned as well that there were a lot of parties off the runway, like in the evening. Interesting. I don't know why that is. I have a couple of theories, but I'm not sure. Well, let me tell you one of them. Tell me what you think, Joe. At first I was thinking like, well, a party's probably easier than a show because it's like less coordinated. It's like everybody just show up and like go to the bar or whatever.

19:28Jill Manoff: But also a lot of these brands were brands that had shows as well. So I don't think that it's not like a budget or time or cost saving thing because it's an addition to a show. Some of them were brands that didn't do a show and did a party instead, but a lot of them had both. So I don't think it's that. But I wonder if it's like, I think the Vogue story I referenced said that it was like them, a lot of brands who are like maybe new to the New York area, maybe they're opening stores is here and they're trying to like embed themselves in kind of the local fashion community a little more and get to know the people who might be shopping at their store, which I think is a very optimistic view.

20:04Jill Manoff: And I hope that's the case.

20:06Danny Parisi: But I don't know.

20:07Jill Manoff: Did you notice any like more like official party invites? And do you think there's anything behind that?

20:13Danny Parisi: I don't know that I noticed more. I definitely noticed that they were there. And I always see these after parties and they always start at 9 p.m. and I always go, oh, no. I'm like, fun for the kids. Like, it's so interesting. I never go. But no, I definitely noticed that they were there. That's a good point, though, if there are more, if it is aligned with brands that are opening stores. I didn't notice that.

20:42Jill Manoff: Yeah, some of them were definitely like tied to a new store like Montclair, I think. But I mean, not every one of them was. So I wonder if there's just sort of like a PR kind of trend going around of like, we should host an after party and make it official.

20:57Danny Parisi: But on the notion of parties, my kind of third thing was related. I thought of, you know, we had our Pop NYC event on Friday and somebody, Hannah Godwin, she told me something about like, when she takes a job. Now she wants something more. If it's just like, take this product, photograph it in your apartment, post about it, like the same old, same old. She kind of rolls her eyes and doesn't want to do that as much. She gets more excited when there is an opportunity to actually go to the brand and be in their studio and be part of a photo shoot. It's a little something more and it's out of the ordinary and it's maybe more photo worthy from her point of view.

21:37Danny Parisi: And I was thinking that to me, I felt like designers were doing maybe like quote something more like, um, and ensuring that the attendees maybe had an enjoyable time. And I felt like presentations and shows had more of like a loungy feel. Um, one that was really like for the people I would say was coach and they had their 85th anniversary. Um, they led like some editors and others like, you know, carry a bag from the collection to the show. And they had little, you know, tables set up where you could enjoy like olives and little tchotchkes, like food during the show. And then when you ask

22:19Jill Manoff: Oh, that's such a good idea. I would love an olive during the show. I know.

22:23Danny Parisi: Little salty little snacks. And then -

22:25Jill Manoff: Oh, that would be so good.

22:26Danny Parisi: Yes. There was entertainment, which I kind of wrote a social post about it, but entertainment, a band during the finale. And then this like curtain opened up and it was, it looked like a disco floor, like where somebody would be dancing and there was a bar back there. And these kind of towers with every, there was like a shrimp tower where you could eat something. And there was one that I don't know, it was chips and caviar chips and something, but everybody was gravitating toward all the food. And Gio, their head of events and visual, I don't know his exact title, but I ran into him. He told me like, wait till 930.

23:04Danny Parisi: Like, I guess the big performances happened and it was only 830. And I was so tired because I traveled in that morning and I was like, what's going to happen? I'm so tired. I left, of course. But anyway, it was beautiful. Again, it was an anniversary celebration. So that's just like one example. But my Teresa, kind of a champagne tower, you take a matchbook. It felt very loungy and enjoyable. Gwen, she had a big old block of butter that was branded Gwen with some grapes and some very kind of goop kitchen type of healthy foods, but lovely. And people had cigarettes floating around. So it just, everything kind of was a vibe I felt like, and meant to be like, you're going either a lounge or you're going to your friend's house to like a dinner party and you can just kind of ease in and feel comfortable.

23:50Danny Parisi: A lot of that, obviously you were at Retrofed with, they were offering And lychee martinis, is that how you say it? Lychee.

23:56Jill Manoff: Yeah, lychee martinis, which was very good. I had one and it was excellent.

24:00Danny Parisi: Yes. And that was kind of like loungy. We're sitting at little kind of French tables. So cute. So yeah, I felt like it was very, experience was kind of first. I would say, I mentioned to you also, my last point on this is just, I did not go to this and I feel bad. But some of the experiences, I would say, if you have the time and it's awesome and it would be an experience to remember and definitely memorable for the brand. Something that was like, whoa, outside of the box to me, and I would say is definitely, I don't know if it's a fashion week first, but a first for me was asked to, on the last day, Colleen Ostrada.

24:44Danny Parisi: They were hosting their show at the Storm King Art Center. and at noon. Upstate. This is not close. So they were providing transportation starting at 9 a.m. The last shuttle was at 10 a.m. And again, it starts at noon. The first shuttle back is at one. It's over an hour away. Anyway, it was basically minimum. I was doing the math for our commitment. And that seemed like it would probably go longer. So they were talking about they wanted to like offer the way you experience a museum. It was the first ever fashion show done there at the Storm King Art Center. Very cool. So that's definitely if you want something more, quote, that that would be an amazing experience.

25:30Danny Parisi: It is just it is for editors and some people that are doing other fashion week things. It's a kind of a lot to a lot to commit to, I would say.

25:39Jill Manoff: Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that because I actually was sitting next to you. So you did not go to this. did not go so i was sitting next to i was at a show and i was sitting next to an editor from another publication and chatting and they also said the exact same thing that they were invited they thought it sounded cool but it was just too much of a time commitment they had too much other stuff to do i wonder how many people had to turn that down i agree it's a very cool idea and it probably was a very fun experience but it's so new york fashion week is so busy and you have a million things to go to that asking for the entire day like that is definitely it's a it's a big ask Yeah.

26:13Danny Parisi: Maybe if they'd done it like off calendar, like on a weekend or something. You know what I mean? That might have been more. It would fly. I might be more up to it.

26:22Jill Manoff: Yeah. Although then you might not have been in town since you were in town for new. But I definitely agree about the kind of the more experiential version of these shows. Like you said, we were both at the Retro Fat show. They had little tables. They had lychee martinis. They had an ashtray with a single cigarette in it. Maybe it's just because I'm hungry right now. But if they had olives, that would have been amazing, too. people at my table were all joking about like there's four people at every table and every table had one cigarette and they were like so do we share it and then it was also like can we light it up right now like it's with a matchbox also or should we wait till we're outside or something um so that was that was fun i my last oh sorry go ahead i was gonna say cigarettes

27:03Danny Parisi: definitely a theme like retrofit there gwen there as a takeaway um they were in the grace sling show on a little cigarette holder. Somebody else, I feel like, had them in the show. Anyway, they were everywhere.

27:16Jill Manoff: Definitely a trend story to be written there about the return of nicotine to New York Fashion Week. But last thing I want to say, and this is kind of like my final point for the whole conversation, I felt like the energy was so good at this New York Fashion Week. I feel like every season we talk about, sometimes it gets overshadowed by the other, like the European weeks, which are maybe like more flashy and exciting. But I felt like this one had it all. There were like big blowout shows like the Tommy Hilfiger show, the Tom Brown show. It sounds like the coach show was like a huge spectacle. I didn't go to that one, but it sounds very cool.

27:52Jill Manoff: The retrofit show was like big and exciting. There were cool parties. There was controversy. Like, I had everything. It was, yeah, it was a very memorable week. And it's great because sometimes New York Fashion Week comes and goes and we're trying to figure out what we're going to talk about on the podcast. And it's a little bit like it wasn't that much exciting. And I felt like this was a memorable week with a lot of cool stuff.

28:13Danny Parisi: I agree, which is probably why I'm so exhausted. There was a lot that they fit in and a lot good couple of days. But yeah, I thought it was great. Good vibes for sure.

28:22Jill Manoff: And like I said, it was nice seeing you there. I'm glad you were in town. Sometimes you're in town and we don't even run into each other because we're so busy. But anything, any other final points you want to make about this week before we wrap up?

28:34Danny Parisi: No, I mean, we talked about like some of the anniversary shows, lots of folks celebrating, which is fun. But I also kind of liked a fun moment for me was like a Tibby they had like during the train or end of the show, like they played Dolly Parton. I think it was like nine to five or something. But like some of those kind of moments that kind of spark a memory or they're in honor of someone. The designers were thoughtful and made for some special moments.

29:03Jill Manoff: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, hopefully the rest of Fashion Month will be just as exciting. Maybe we'll see some more physical fights on the runway and at London Fashion Week when that starts, which we will be covering.

29:18Danny Parisi: Keep our hands to ourselves.

29:20Jill Manoff: Let's everybody be on good behavior. Thank you so much, Jill. Great talking to you, and thank you all for listening.

29:27Danny Parisi: Thanks so much.

29:32Jill Manoff: And thank you for listening to the Glossy Podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this, because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy Podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders, and we can review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.