After its pop-up controversy, does Good American owe anything to nano-creators?

0:05Hello and welcome back to the Glossy podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter, Dani Parisi, and I am here again with our international reporter, Zofia Zviglinska. Hello, Zofia. Hi. How's everyone? We are also here with our editor-in-chief, Jill Manoff. Hello, Jill. Hello. We've been doing a bunch of these all together. It's been fun. It's great. I love having guests on, but I also really enjoy the fashion team roundtable like we're doing today. So thank you both for being here. This week, we are discussing the Good American pop-up that happened in New York City last weekend. If you haven't heard of it, I will do a quick breakdown because I think it's very interesting for a couple of reasons, which we'll get to.

0:45But if you haven't heard, it sounds like this pop-up was a bit of an organizational disaster. There have been a flood of TikTok videos from influencers who got invited to this event. And it sounds like there was some confusion over what the event exactly entailed and what these influencers thought they were getting into. Basically, a lot of influencers got an exclusive invite and assumed they were going to some sort of VIP private event. But then when they got there, it actually turned out to be sort of more of a mass email, which led to people flying into town expecting kind of a VIP thing. And then they had to actually like wait on a huge line.

1:20And it was not quite as VIP as they thought. So people showed up thinking this was going to be an exclusive thing. And actually, it was just like come into the store and buy some stuff. and like there's coffee in the back, but actually you have to pay for the coffee. And you had to sign up for time slots. And it sounds like there were way more people signed up than could realistically get in and out during those time slots. So people were waiting in these long, long lines and it started raining. And then eventually they started turning people away. And the event ended without a lot of people even getting to go inside.

1:50And like I said, since then, there has been a lot of TikTok videos of influencers who were there and are not happy about how it turned out and are dishing about their experience and kind of calling the brand out for having this kind of kerfuffle happen. And part of the reason we wanted to talk about it, and please let me know if I miss anything from that summary, but it's kind of funny, it's kind of messy, but I also thought, we also thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss how brands work with influencers and particularly micro-influencers and what the influencers are expecting from brands and what brands are expecting from influencers and times when those two expectations don't line up and the potential for it to go wrong and the potential for bad press.

2:31So there's a lot of interesting things there. Did I miss any key elements from that summary, guys? I'll just add one thing. And yes, whether or not it was an official disaster, I guess it depends on how you look at it. That might be a strong term. Disaster might be a strong word. Yeah. And I did reach out to ask the brand if they met their goals and I didn't hear back from them. And certain influencers are saying, you know, all press is good press. people that have kind of people who are posting about this event. But just to circle back, like I did talk to Emma Greed ahead of this pop-up and just to kind of lay the groundwork, like the whole intention was to, she kept using the word reintroduction, reintroduction of the brand, because, you know, it was very disruptive when it, when it launched, it was all about inclusive of sizing and denim.

3:24And this was a different opportunity to kind of roll out the full breadth of assortment. Like they're a head to toe brand now. They're a little bit more elevated. They have pieces in the$500 range that are suede or leather. And so it was supposed to be, and she also told me that they're an LA brand. They wanted to bring up a taste of LA to New York. And yet they do, I was asking about the markets they want to focus on because they are exploring more store openings. And she's just like, it's all about New York right now. So I feel like, you know, not the best maybe entry into the market. That's for sure.

4:01Yeah. And to be clear, Emma Green that you're talking about is co-founder of the brand. Yeah, just probably most people do that. Which is also something important in this context. Yeah. So yeah, like I said, I think there's a lot to discuss here about the relationship between brands and influencers and the expectations around those partnerships. Zofia, I wanted to throw it to you first, because I know you did the most reporting and follow through on this and talked to a couple people in the influencer marketing space about how this was handled and things like that. So why don't you tell us a little bit of what you heard and who you spoke to?

4:40Yeah, absolutely. So obviously, with Jill kind of heading up the piece last week, I got in ahead of time and also saw that there was a little bit of outrage happening from the micro-creator and nano-creator space. I followed up some accounts, and I think we wrote up a little piece around it for our LinkedIn newsletter, which goes out every Sunday. And so that gave a little bit of insight. Nice plug, by the way. Follow, beautiful as well. Exactly. But there was a couple of creators on there who I followed on TikTok and across Instagrams, including Hannah Standard, Kylie Baxer, and a joint video in particular from Tia and Christina Farragh on TikTok, who went into a lot of detail as to exactly what went wrong with the pop-up, kind of their experience of it.

5:28First of all, I've been to so many influencer events, exclusive events, especially when it's exclusive and it's not to the public. You never really have to wait in line. And if you do, it's never a long line. I just think I'm annoyed. I'm highly annoyed and I had to make this video. And I thought about not making the video because I didn't want to feel like, you know, being entitled like what you said. But it's frustrating. Do better. You got to make up for this one. The problem was that a lot of these creators and a lot of them being in that nano and micro kind of creator space. A lot of them thought that this was an exclusive invite and something that, you know, they would be able to get great content from, maybe grow their accounts.

6:11For them, having an opportunity with a big brand like Good American is really, really big and something that they want to capture for their content. Obviously, there's bigger creators that came too. I think in particular, Julia Ford on TikTok. She came in early. I believe there was a separate event earlier on for some of the bigger creators. She praised the coffee, the jackets, the styling of the store, and it seems like she had a good good experience before the kind of invited preview with the assigned slots and so obviously we spoke a little bit about that and kind of how many issues there were you guys have seen the videos too right yes yeah i i've seen videos and i i our wonderful producer sarah collected a lot of them together which was very helpful for this but i i want to just say with something really quick Zofia, before you continue, I feel like the not getting in at all to the event is definitely worse.

7:09Like, I think it's one thing for the expectation to be a little misaligned and you get there and it's not what you expected. That's one thing. But going all the way there and then not even getting to go inside and just standing in the rain and then going home without even setting foot in the door definitely, I think, is what takes it up a level in terms of poor planning. So anyway, but continue. I want to add on to that because I have a similar experience. We talked about how I compared it to like going to a fashion show. Like I have two instances and they were Laquan, not to call them out, but they were Laquan Smith and Philip Pline where I had a seat to their show.

7:43And you get there and they've created a scene. They've clearly invited too many people and maybe announced on their social channels and they're a buzzy brand at the time and like the public swarms or what have you. Anyway, and you don't get in and you have certain expectations and you are there. for me, it wasn't about following. It was like basically to do my job, to be able to come back on the podcast or what have you and talk about it. And you're there for a purpose. They also, you know, at this pop-up, you know, they're going to do their job. They're an influencer. It's part of growing their brand, their business.

8:17So certain expectations, like you're kind of like, no, but you were promised you're not getting. And you do like bluntly, you feel like a loser. You're like, oh, what am I doing here? Why did it come all this way? Like, it's just like really defeating. Like, it's a bad feeling, I'll say. Yeah, and I go to events a lot. Like, we all get invited to lots of things like this. I never go in expecting like super special treatment because the journalists never get the same red carpet rollout as like a big influencer or something. But I think you're right. I mean, it's one thing to be like, I wasn't treated like a super VIP guest.

8:54and another where like the basic thing I was there to do was like not possible. Like I've gone to events where it's like, you can interview the designer after and then I get there and it's like, oh, he's not doing interviews. I'm like, well, why did I come? Like it's one thing for it to the expectation to be misaligned and another to just be like the basic promise of what's available is just broken. So I do think that is part of the reason why this has caused a lot of frustration. It's one thing if you got in and it wasn't quite as fancy or catered to you as you thought it was gonna be, another to just not be able to get in at all.

9:24Yeah, absolutely. And I think that this kind of speaks very well to the state of the industry and I guess like how reliant a lot of these brands are on micro and kind of nano influences, obviously on journalists as well. But, you know, there's also a big space that's growing with that creator space. I spoke to, as you mentioned, two people in that kind of creator marketing space, Lucy Krasinski, who's the global head of brand marketing at Buttermilk, and Adam Adquick. And they both basically came back saying that there was a gap between what you promise people as brands and what you can actually deliver.

10:01And I think that a lot of brands kind of think, you know, they're going to be able to deliver rainbows and sunbeams and instead end up delivering a very poor experience. um lucy kind of made the point that an invitation to an exclusive first look which is the way that it was phrased in um the event invite especially with like a confirmed time slot creates a really different um expectation for people from an invitation to a public shop for example and she gave an example of buttermilk's own hotel buttermilk events where they invite creators to kind of shoot content um she said an exclusive invitation there means that there's a guaranteed seat at the table for that individual.

10:41And I think that's what should have happened here. Adam was equally kind of clear about responsibility about the brand side. Ultimately, the brand owns the experience regardless of kind of which team created the problem. Because obviously, a lot of the times these events are put on not just by the brand, but also with an agency who can sometimes be in charge of those guest lists. Yes, those expectations. I wish they would have just said, like all they had to add was like an asterisk that said, access is not guaranteed. First 200 people get free coffee, come early. Like if they just said that, people would understand.

11:18And like judging from these posts, these are nano micro creators. They are hungry. Like they were going to go there, get their content. They saw it as an opportunity to be kind of thought of in the same breath as somebody said Olivia Jade was there. But like to just say like to be considered by your followers or whoever might see your posts as like worthy of that room, that's really important to them. And yeah, I think they would have got there at 6am had it said that, honestly, because they're hungry. Yeah. Yeah. And I have more to add from like Lucy as well from from the buttermilk side she said that the engagement rates for those kind of nano and micro creates micro creators outperform those of mid-tier creators so a creator's audience size might determine their reach but shouldn't determine the respect that they've shown by the brand and i think we've seen that with some of these videos tia's complaint video for example she only has like a thousand four hundred tiktok followers but the video reached um 113 000 views so again like seeing like how a lot of these nano creators have a lot of influence and i think considering how a lot of these brands now are expanding their strategies to include a lot more of those kind of creators like we're seeing huge programs from from gap from um abercrombie um i think there's been some others which have you know come around like h &m i think do a pretty big one as well where they partner with huge creator communities that have you know thousands and thousands of micro and nano creators in them.

12:51Some of those videos can actually impact like brand reputation a lot more than maybe they quite think. Just for the record, a nano influencer, I think, is up to 10 ,000 followers and a micro influencer is between 10 ,000. Or I guess a nano influencer is not up to. No, no. Nano is 1 ,000. 1 ,000 to 10 ,000, right? Yeah. Micro influencers, 10 ,000 to 100 ,000. And I hear from brands all the time that they love their micro influencers. I can actually drive more engagement because they have smaller but like more loyal and more engaged following than, you know, a celebrity who has 10 million followers.

13:27But it's like how many of those are even like real people or like someone who's super engaged, that kind of thing. And yet I still feel like a lot of brands still get kind of dazzled by an A-lister and they still definitely prioritize, you know, a few larger following people over because you also if you're going to engage with lots of different micro influencers, which I do I think seems like a good strategy. You can't do a super exclusive VIP thing and have it go out to like several hundred influencers because that's the opposite of exclusive, you know? So I feel like it seems like some brands have not quite figured out how to balance that.

14:04And I definitely think that risk here was like treating or leading micro influencers to think they were gonna get treatment that maybe they're actually only gonna give to the mega influencers. And I think there was a secondary event that Good American had later that was actually exclusive and was for only a handful of people. And it was like Martha Stewart was there and stuff like that. So they definitely had like a tiered thing. And the problem was leading the micro influencers to think they were getting sort of the higher tier treatment. Yeah, exactly. The hierarchy. Hierarchy of creators. The hierarchy is real.

14:44It's interesting. And yet you have to wonder, did they question it? I feel bad for the girl. It's like the agent's fault that said the invite came through her agent. The agent should have asked the questions that maybe the influencer should have also asked, which if you have 1 ,200 followers and they're offering you a plus one and they're making this feel like the biggest opportunity for you, like you'd say, maybe you should say, am I definitely getting in? or how many people are you inviting? Or maybe there's a question mark around why you're getting this very exclusive invite if you're so small.

15:20But then there's also, like you said, the talk of the nano-influencer and the importance of it. Sophia, I thought you wrote some of the best points in the LinkedIn newsletter, which you did reference some comments from Netta Whitney from Map Projects and also Reese Posge, who's so brilliant, from Moose Knuckles. And they were talking about like the investment that an influencer take, like their travel, their travel there and their time is an investment. Time is money. And Reese talked about it's a two way relationship or not just using them for their posts. You also talked about the road, the road pop up and how they handled it, where they avoided some of this backlash because do you want to talk about it?

16:06Yeah, definitely. So Rode obviously is another kind of big example of a brand that is hugely reliant on nano and kind of micro creators. And obviously their events draw hundreds of people. Like it's something that I think is also an event in itself where these openings are also kind of huge. They have, you know, drink stations. Like it's like a whole thing. They had a pop up in Newport earlier this year. and it had exactly the same issues where basically there were complaints about weights, about stock shortages, which is also another issue I don't think Good American had. But obviously with beauty, certain products do sell out faster.

16:43So obviously that's something that was an issue there. But difference there is that staff supplied refreshments for the queue and sunscreen. They also shared stock updates. So during and after the event and visitors basically said that there were improvements on later days. Good American didn't have that because obviously the pop-up was only happening for a couple of hours. From what I saw from the videos, they basically said that the stores only open for a couple of hours that day. So it wasn't even a whole day event. And both Adam and Lucy that I spoke to said that brands should budget for water, for shade, staffing, signage, and updates from the beginning, which I think wasn't something that happened here.

17:28And then Lucy added that if someone still can't get in, a personal acknowledgement and an apology should be a starting point. And obviously, we've noted that both Good American and Emigreed have not addressed this on their social channels, even though I would say that they are quite social first. And that's something that I think has been happening a lot with a lot of these brands that have very kind of public facing founders. yeah I'm sure there's also a temptation to just let it blow over you know and I think that's also something brands or or anyone kind of needs to think about is like is my apology going to make it even more of a thing like if it is it just quiet enough that if I just ignore it it'll go away or if it's over a certain point then an apology will help if it's under a certain point apology might just make it well I don't know so I feel like that's part of the the calculus there for them as well.

18:22Can we talk briefly about the invite itself? A couple of people who went to this Good American event have posted the invite itself. And I'm going to say, from my perspective, I could see misreading it, but I also think it doesn't look, it's not crazy. It's not like where it wasn't super personalized. You know, it did kind of look a little generic to me. It does say exclusive preview and things like that. And we want you to be one of the first to see it. But beyond that, it didn't look that misleading to my eye. And maybe I'm just, like I said, I get a lot of, we all get a lot of pitches and invites.

18:55I'm kind of used to what these sort of event emails look like. So did you guys feel like from seeing the invite that it was super, super misleading or a little more ambiguous? What do you think? I've actually got the text for it just so our listeners can make their own mind up. Yes, let's read it. Yeah, the invitation was for October 14th, 11am to 1pm. So again, tiny, tiny time slot for 30 West Broadway and Soho. It said you're invited to an exclusive first look at the Good American pop up before it opens to the public. Enjoy early access to new product, exclusive giveaways and specialty drinks from Leora Cafe.

19:34so for me that suggests that exclusive which you know means that there's going to be a limited number of people before it opens to the public so you'd think that there's a limited number again of people that are allowed in and also the kind of early access to product like all of that suggests exclusivity now granted I don't know if these were you know as you mentioned like directly to each of these creators or whether this was a broad invite but considering how sticky like these situations can be. Like you'd think that they would try and get in front of it and either address it individually or say that, you know, if we are at capacity, we will turn people away at the door, for example.

20:13Yes, I did disagree. And we don't get the same treatment as all of the, as influencers. But with the fellow on TikTok that we were all looking at that was like, girl, you should know. if you don't get an Uber code and a dress code and it says the word shop, you shouldn't expect, you know, exclusivity. I, not every, sometimes people will send an Uber code. I don't often see a dress code and we're going to the same event. I think that's not exactly accurate. But yeah, I just think those same disclaimers I mentioned earlier should have been included. And yeah. I agree, Jo. I think that would have gone a long way.

20:54One other small thing I want to take this opportunity to address, I feel like getting a lot of PR pitches and because I'm a journalist, so I get invites, but I also get PR pitches for stories and things like that all the time. I feel like the PR emails have gotten more longer and more imprecise and more exaggerated. Like they're always like their whole point is to make their client look good. I understand that. But it's crazy how often I get an invite or a PR thing and it makes like bombastic claims. And then I ask one follow up and then they kind of have to walk it back. They're like this, this company I'm working with, they're the leading brand in this category, the number one.

21:33And then I'm like, oh, is that based on sales or revenue? And then it's like, oh no, I just, that's just a phrase I just put in there. So I do think there is, you know what I mean? I I do think there is a scourge of like PR exaggerating. They want to make things look exciting. They want to make things sound good. They want to get people to come to this event. So they're going to say it's an exclusive first look and like, because that makes it sound sexier, but it's also confusing. And so I don't want to say for sure that like AI is involved, but generally speaking, I feel like I, like I said, I'm getting longer and more confusing pitches.

22:07And I feel like that's a hallmark of AI usage is that it's going to default to like vague and exaggerated claims and terms. And I'm like, if you're going to say an exclusive VIP first look, those are not just words. That has a meaning, you know? If you're going to say something's the number one brand, I'm like, that's a specific claim. That's not just like a phrase you can just throw around. So if any PR people are listening, like I think the exaggeration and the vague terminology and a lot of pitches and invites and stuff I get is I feel like it's gotten worse. So I think that was kind of at play.

22:45Yeah. Yeah. And again, I get that like their job is to make their clients look and sound good and they want to make everything they're pitching sound exciting. But I'm like, if you're going to say something, I know what the words mean. And I'm going to ask, like, is that true? And a lot of times they walk it back. So I feel like that's an issue here was trying to make this event sound more exciting, but verging from exaggerating to straight up misrepresenting. You know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. I wonder if like obviously for creators, if they also kind of wading through the amount of like invites and personalized things that has gone so much worse with AI use because of that.

23:26like basically like a lot of these things over promise and then under deliver because they want to get those numbers in front of the door. They want the, you know, PR signup list to be ever so long. So yeah, I can definitely see that. And it has definitely made our jobs a lot harder as well. Some of my best pitches are like two, two sentences. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. And it's better when they get your name and the brand right. And it doesn't say WSJ exclusive in the subject line. Yeah, exactly. That helps. But also with these, like now's not the time. If you're going to exaggerate an opportunity, I mean, this is not exactly the same thing, but I was thinking about it and in relation to this conversation about the fact that, you know, people are spending money on experiences or they even see like an outing as almost like treat culture, like treat yourself.

24:16I'm going to go do this, have some fun. And I saw something um which again not the same but miley cyrus had her concert that like at the hollywood bowl in la she got backlash on friday because it was she it didn't feel like she was like putting her all into it it felt like she was phoning it in on friday and there was backlash to her concert on friday and she came back on sunday and she's like for her second concert and like i'm not gonna be nobody i've never been called that i'm giving it my all i'm here you guys and she was trying to like circle back so anyway people have high expectations when they're spending money, when they're spending their time.

24:51I just feel like an experience is where it's at right now as everybody's kind of pulling back on other things. Yeah, it's like speak to the manager culture. It's like I am not satisfied with my Miley Cyrus experience and that kind of thing. I also feel like I was talking with a friend about influencer stuff and how so much of influencer, like the creator economy, incentivizes like kind of faking it till you make it. Like, I think the three of us were talking about people who are nano-influencers or even below are kind of incentivized to sort of pretend that they are a tier up from where they are because that's the best way to get to that tier.

25:30You sort of, you exaggerate your own reach to the brand. They exaggerate what the event you're invited to is going to be. Everyone's exaggerating and making everything sound better. I don't know. It's like that's... That is real life. Yeah. It's kind of like part of the whole system is like everyone's kind of trying to pretend their thing is more exciting and bigger, a bigger deal than it really is, which our job is not to do that and to wade through all that, which is kind of makes it like you said, Sophia makes our job a little bit harder. But yeah, I feel like there's something there where I think some of these influencers wanted to be treated more important than they are.

26:09That sounds really callous and I don't mean it that way, but it's just like, like I said earlier, you can't roll out the red carpet for like 500 people. Like if it's gonna be an exclusive thing, it needs to be, exclusive is a word that has meaning. It means not for everybody. So I don't know. There's just a lot of confusion and murkiness in this whole world from both sides, from the brand side and the influencers. Yeah, and I'd say it's even more complicated now because a lot of the times your creators are also your customers. Like they're people who would have shopped with you like a couple of years ago and now are just starting to make content.

26:45Like they love their brands and obviously they really care about that, but they are also customers. And that means that that pool is so large that you're basically managing customers, not just creators or, you know, customers slash creators. And that also means that, you know, you can't give every single person the same level of treatment you would for like 20 people. Like ultimately, if you could give a wonderful Disney-like experience to 200 to 500 people, then you'd be running Disneyland. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Totally. I felt like, yeah, the same thing. The posts, some of the posts were a little bit like you want to roll your eyes because it just felt it read as so like entitled and like they're almost a little bit whiny.

27:26And you want to say people are dying, Kim. Some videos I saw literally were like, I know this isn't the worst problem in the world. And then you want to say they want to be thought of as the mega influencers. I think a lot I'm sure there are some who have earned their following by going to all these things. But for a lot of a lot of them, they earn their following by doing something that's differentiated. It's the same way that we think about our content when like breaking news comes out. Like, do we all just pile on? Cause that's what everyone's looking at at that time. Or, you know, we kind of take a beat, we do a second day story.

28:02We find the unique element, like, are these the same influencers that are kind of whiny and complaining about it? Like, are they also trying to do something that the other influencers aren't? And maybe when there's not a big event, they're like calling brands directly and saying, you know, I'm going to visit your store. I'm going to highlight this. Like just like doing things, thinking outside the box. Cause I feel like that's probably a better course of action to, to growing your following, but I don't know. Yeah. Let's, let's end on this question. I have a question for you too. And we kind of have touched on it already.

28:36And I feel like the answer is going to be a little bit of both, but from both of you, I want to know who do you think is more wrong in this situation? Like good American and their team for misrepresenting or the influencers for misunderstanding again like i my take is probably it's a little bit of both but like between the two who's over 50 and who's under 50 in the wrong here

29:01i mean i i think it's the brand i'm gonna say it's the brand for me it's like if you're the one who's making money from you know these events and from these people like at the very least provide a decent experience for them. I think it's also like, it's quite a hard environment for brands right now to stand out. So if you are getting negative attention, then that's not really a good thing. Like I can't imagine someone who's, you know, really excited for one of these pop-ups to then, you know, miss out on one, decide to go to the next one, knowing that the previous experience was super bad. Like if that was the case, then, you know, they're probably going to go to a competitor who is running a more inclusive or at least a better event that feels makes them feel a little bit more welcome and god help me there are a lot of denim brands out there yeah i'm gonna say similarly but only by like 60 40 i think more on the brand and only because they were more in a position to avoid it because like we've all said i don't think the email was that misleading, but also it would have been very easy to clarify a little bit.

30:06And like you said, Jill just put in like, note that space is limited. Like that one or two extra lines would have communicated a lot more about the actual vibe of the event. So I'm going to say a little more on them only because they were more in a position to prevent this whole thing from happening in the first place. What about you, Jill? I mean, if things went down as we're hearing about it on social media. And we know that social media thrives on negativity. So who's to say? Absolutely. I will say the brand a tad more, but only because like the standard now for, I mean, better or worse is that like you have people standing in line, you're going to offer them something.

30:47You're going to give them a drink of water. You're just like some little touches that would just make all the difference. And you know what? They could be making content while they're waiting two hours, like hand them a good American, I don't know, what's cheap ball cap. That's not cheap, but something where you're just like something branded, they can make use of their time. And also one of the influencers did say like they got an email on the way there that said, you know, we're at capacity, we're closing in 20 minutes, like that that correspondence was there. So I don't know when there's like talk of no apology to anybody really, because if they had the courtesy to say we're at capacity.

31:25I don't know. But if there was literally like, sorry, no correspondence of sorry, you didn't make it in, that's kind of lame. And again, it's not the new standard. We know. And I even think about going to a fashion show where it was going to rain and they had umbrellas in everybody's seat. It's just a courtesy, like something that you do, these people are amplifying your content. And I will just have to say, I think we're all in the wrong. Not really, but this is where marketing is going for better or worse again. But man, unintentionally, I just have to mention, I went to this Ulta holiday event.

32:01I just went to make content for Glossy. They invited me, we invited me to collaborate on the post. And the number of comments, which I was just aware of because I was getting the notifications that were saying, God, I wish I could be there. It was just like the ultimate place for these want to be influencers or that's me next year. And all of these comments like that and all these people followed me and I could see like, if you do get the inside access to these events, it's almost like a drug. Like you feel cool. You're, you're an insider. Everybody wants to be you. And I could see that really like becoming, I don't know, exciting.

32:39I, I, I understand. And like you said earlier, Jill, it's also totally understandable to have your, your pride be a little hurt by realizing that you're not that or like you're not getting that treatment so i get it i i understand why people were were upset about it um but yeah i think there's a lot of interesting stuff here about the way brands and influencers interact i think that's all the time we have for this episode but i feel like we had a good meaty discussion so thank you guys thanks so much it was fun and thank you all for listening

33:14and thank you for listening to the glossy podcast don't forget to give us a rating and a review on apple podcast or spotify wherever you listen to this because that helps us out so much and don't forget to subscribe to the glossy podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and we can review segments where we break down the news the new episodes come out every friday until the next time thanks for listening