Copenhagen Fashion Week built the Scandi boom. Can it still grow another Ganni?

0:04Zofia Zwieglinska: Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our international reporter Zofia Zwieglinska. Hello, Zofia. How are you? Hi. Very good. Very excited about this week's episode. Very European in nature. I know. I'm excited to hear about it. This was a Zofia episode you handled getting our guest and handling the conversation. So I'm just excited to hear it. So give me a little preview. Who do we have on the show this week and what did you talk about? Yeah, so this week we're discussing Copenhagen Fashion Week, which is happening from the 3rd till the 7th.

0:39Zofia Zwieglinska: So basically when this episode will be coming out, it will be coming to an end. I know that there's been some coverage of it already. So really interested to kind of weigh in as well. And I've got a wonderful guest on this week, Natalie Salmon, who's a previous fashion editor for Vogue Scandinavia. She's worked in the region and she understands it really well. She's been to Copenhagen many, many times. And I think she's got a really interesting take on the kind of various things that make Copenhagen what it is. This year is a particularly kind of important year for Copenhagen and for its founders.

1:16Zofia Zwieglinska: It's the 20th year anniversary of the fashion week that kind of pioneered so many of the things that we see in other fashion weeks now, like sustainability requirements for entry, which I think now is happening in London as a result. And there's other things, too, that just make it a really interesting and kind of fun way to look at European fashion, but not through the Parisian lens. Yeah, I'm excited to hear this. One thing I want to ask you before we start in the planning of this episode, the term Scandi Girl was thrown around quite a bit. I was wondering if you could define that, because some of the brands, I think, that are associated with that region, like Ghani and others, have kind of an aesthetic and there's a little bit of a trend around the Scandi Girl look.

2:00Zofia Zwieglinska: but what does that mean to you? Yeah, so I think Scandi Girl is kind of interesting. So I think Scandi and Copenhagen might be slightly different. Scandi, I think, originated with very like functional dressing that we see very widely adopted now, but maybe it wasn't as much of a thing, you know, 10 or 20 years ago. So there's a lot of kind of bold self-expression and very functional pieces. There's like a lot of colorful prints, a lot of oversized things, so oversized coats and dresses jackets and then kind of statement accessories so really kind of fun bags fun shoes there's tied socks um I think there was a little kind of bandana that was really popular for the last couple of years I don't know if that's still a thing but that's very very uh kind of Copenhagen and Scandi girl um and then yeah just a lot of prints so checks kind of clashing things um even things like cowboy boots like paired with like frilly dresses is very Scandi girl to me.

2:57Zofia Zwieglinska: But that's obviously very different to maybe an acne, which is also kind of coming out from the region. So on the one side, you have minimalist. And then on the other side, you have more Copenhagen style, which is what we're mainly kind of diving into with Natalie today. Gotcha. Well, it is a very interesting region. And some of the brands that are associated with Copenhagen Fashion Week, I think are very fascinating. So I'm excited to hear our conversation. With that said, let's get into it. Let's hear Zofia's conversation with Natalie.

3:28Zofia Zwieglinska: Natalie it's such a pleasure to have you on thank you so much for joining us thank you for having me and tell me a little bit about your background first with Copenhagen Fashion Weeks I know that you know for our US listeners they probably see the street style but I don't know if they know as much about you know you and kind of your experience in it so yeah so I started my career at Harper's Bazaar in the UK and then I was digital editor at Vogue Scandinavia for two years, living in Stockholm before coming back to the UK. And interestingly enough, Stockholm also has a fashion week, which was a couple of years ago, almost on a par with Copenhagen.

4:05But obviously, Copenhagen is much, much bigger now. It's sort of blown all the other Nordic fashion weeks out the water in a way. You know, Norway, Oslo has its own fashion week but I think so much attention has gone towards Copenhagen and I think there's a lot of reasons but yeah going going back to myself so yeah now I run a fashion tech platform called the modems so after moving back to the UK I was editor-in-chief at Hello Fashion and then left last year to start my own platform which is the modems.

4:40Zofia Zwieglinska: I love that and obviously this is very non-tech related and it does kind of call back to your original background but I love the fact that you know you've had an insider look at what that kind of region is like with Vogue Scandinavia and it does feel like you might have a little bit of an understanding as to you know why Copenhagen blew up so much I know that you know Street Star has a lot to do with it it's kind of unique the Gany girl aesthetic has a lot to do with it you know why was it that it did establish itself in such a way when I think other fashion weeks maybe had a little bit of an identity crisis compared to maybe like Paris or London or New York.

5:18Well I mean Cecily Tosmark she talks about the fact that the reason the streets are there is so sort of amazing and also so inspirational is because it's really Scandi style and I hate to kind of put everyone into one broad kind of sheet because Swedish style is very different from Danish style. But what I noticed, the difference between living in Stockholm and Copenhagen, Copenhagen is much more colourful. So very expressive, but it's also really rooted in practicality. So, you know, there's bikes, there's weather, it feels like a real wardrobe rather than just dressing for the gram. And I think that's one of the reasons that, you know, street style really blew up.

6:02I think that there is an obsession with all things Scandi. It's definitely part of the reason that I wanted to work at Vogue Scandinavia was, you know, I was part of the team that launched the magazine and it was really when Higa was, you know, becoming a big thing. So I think that there's just an inherent cool factor with the Nordics anyway. So they're quite lucky they've got that. But in terms of Copenhagen Fashion Week, you know, the designers that we're seeing from there, it almost feels like the energy from London Fashion Week 20, 30 years ago. It's where there's really exciting talent coming.

6:38It's where you have a real amazing, and, you know, people are surprised by this, but like, you know, a mix of cultures. And it's just very expressive and it's exciting. And it's become, you know, it's gone from like the sort of fifth fashion week to almost becoming like this primary fashion week on the world stage, which we haven't seen. There's lots of countries, you know, there's Berlin Fashion Week. There's a lot of countries that stage their own fashion week outside of the big four, Milan, London, Paris, New York. But Copenhagen has really managed to cultivate a sort of cult following and actually serious editors.

7:17I'm not saying that all of the big editors go to Copenhagen Fashion Week, but a lot of them will prioritize it even over London now, I've seen.

7:24Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, exactly. And would you put that down to the fact that, you know, the brands there are more exciting, then more interesting, kind of disruptive? And especially like, is it the same now, maybe compared to 10 years ago? So I think, you know, there's brands that are really exciting. You've got like Sax Potts, Steena Goya, Rotate, Ceci Banson, who you mentioned. And then you've also got brands like, I mean, there's some brands who, as you mentioned, actually, you know, pivoted to Paris Fashion Week. There's a lot of brands that have left and are now coming back. So they're really seeing the value of Copenhagen Fashion Week.

7:58Like Holtzweiler is one of these brands where, you know, they've left and then they're coming back. I think they're sort of the first show of the season at this Fashion Week. So I think that it's a combination of things. I think street style obviously has been a huge influence on it. And I think the reason is because of, and you know, I'm going to sound like a broken record, but social media. I'm sure everyone gives this answer, but we have become as used to seeing pictures of street style as we are from seeing pictures from the runway. I mean, arguably more of your average person, consumer, will see or prioritize seeing pictures from street style.

8:44That's what really inspires them from Fashion Week. So I think that's been a really big part of it. And I also think it's the talent. They've managed to cultivate a really good energy around the fashion week. And it's also, as an editor who's been there, it's very easy to get around. It feels very friendly. And it's a really nice place to visit. I think people love going there. I certainly loved going during my time working in the region. I mean, it was like, you know, it's so colorful. It's so beautiful. And it really is very inspiring. Yeah.

9:17Zofia Zwieglinska: And obviously, one of its biggest successes is Gani, you know, started by two founders who have kind of grown it into this sustainability powerhouse, you know, powerhouse brand as well as many boutiques in Copenhagen, but also, you know, outside of it, there's a big one in London and they expanded out into the US and other places as well. You know, Gani has been trying to kind of move up market for a little while now, whether that's by kind of launching more expensive products, but also with its move to Paris. You know, what is the kind of perception of Gani today? And do you feel like it still has that staying power that it did, you know, five years ago?

9:57I think that Gani, obviously it does really well commercially. I'd love to see if they can break into, you know, the high fashion audience. Obviously, you know, they haven't left Copenhagen, but my bet would be if they do try to do that, they'll probably move to Paris, which seems to be what every brand does when they're trying to cultivate that, you know, it's like the stamp of authority in terms of the luxury editors, the luxury press. I think that it's amazing. Any brand that's able to stay relevant for as long, you're already, you know, very accomplished. I think that it's very, very hard to move into the higher bracket, but I think people would welcome it if they managed to do it well.

10:43I mean, the thing is, sustainability, it sounds like, you know it's only just sort of been discovered here in the last 10 years there's a lot of green washing that happens in other parts I mean sustainability is like a core part of every single designer business model in Scandinavia just is and I think a lot of that is because of the lifestyle I mean if you go to recycle plastic bottles there you literally get paid to recycle so it's you know growing up everyone recycles when I moved back I was like oh my god it horrified me how bad our recycling systems were here. And it like honestly gave me anxiety because I was like, oh my gosh, it used to be so easy.

11:23So I think sustainability was a really big part because obviously it became a huge buzzword. It's another huge part of why lots of attention was focused on Copenhagen. I think everyone was really inspired by it, was trying to adopt sustainable practices in their own business. And they've managed to do it without compromising on creativity or style. But again, you know, if you say to someone there like, oh, is your business sustainable? They'll look at you like you're insane because of course it is. You know, it doesn't even compute that it wouldn't be. And I think that was also a really key part of what made them so relevant and it felt very modern.

11:58so lots of you know so many designers um do so much work with you know finding new ways to create different materials different textiles it really seems to be this place where they prioritize that so much and so you have other places around the world looking to them as a model for you know how do we stay sustainable but still commercially relevant so i think that's been a huge part of why they've been successful and managed to stay successful as well yeah and

12:27Zofia Zwieglinska: And obviously that mix of those, you know, aesthetics are colorful. I think there's lots of, there's checks, there's prints. Like I think the Scandi girl kind of aesthetic is very bright and colorful. I think that's why, you know, it gets a lot of visibility online. As you mentioned, obviously, the sustainability requirements are really massive too. They were introduced in 2020. And there's basically like a minimum environmental and social standards that brands need to reach to actually be able to even participate and show as part of Copenhagen Fashion Week. And obviously, you know, London and other fashion weeks are also considering including this.

13:05Zofia Zwieglinska: So things like, you know, not working with furs or making sure that your materials are sourced properly, like all of those things have come from Copenhagen Fashion Week. I think that also Copenhagen gave a little bit of a model to other European fashion weeks on how to make their aesthetic almost like exportable. I think Berlin's kind of adopted that Fashion Week framework. And I think, you know, the BFC with New Gen has also made that because apart from, you know, Copenhagen showing established brands, it's also a great kind of incubator for what's happening in that region. And a lot of brands actually start out there showing quite very small through a presentation and then kind of launching into other places too.

13:48Zofia Zwieglinska: I think that emerging talent aspect also made it very attractive for buyers. I don't know if you saw that when you were visiting, but I always felt like buyers were really excited by what Copenhagen had to offer. And I think those emerging labels were more interesting to them than maybe someone who did show in, you know, some of the bigger capitals. Well, yeah, I think the big capitals, I mean, they're run by heritage houses, conglomerates, you know, LVMH. And I think that Copenhagen is completely different in that it's all built on that community. and in a lot of way, the constraints. And even the way the shows are done, you know, it's all over the Capitol.

14:27It feels exciting and emerging. And I think that's something that editors do get excited by because, you know, they don't feel like I have to write about this because, you know, this is one of our huge advertisers or, you know, they're not tied to that. So everything that you see coming out of there, particularly where you'll see magazine articles where editors are concerned, And it's, you know, a genuine love of that brand. And I think people can really feel that authenticity because, you know, you're only writing about it because you think it's wonderful. And I think that's part of the reason it stays very special.

15:05And I think it's going to be interesting to see how Copenhagen grapples with, you know, in the future. You know, it really has cemented itself as one of the big fashion weeks, how it manages to keep that authenticity. um I think sustainability will be a huge part of that but I do think that's part of the reason it's so exciting is because it's not run by you know it's not like the same heritage houses that you always see it's not the same you know maisons or fashion houses it's really unique independent

15:34Zofia Zwieglinska: brands no I agree I think that there's so many brands that have also curated their own kind of voice and I think that um maybe just thinking about kind of London Fashion Week front ways like I think Gani has done a similar thing to Susan Fang, where you've kind of created your own world and brought customers, but also just brand fans into it. For example, in 2024 for spring, Gani did this whole thing about the differences and the similarities between nature and AI. They had an AI-generated soundscape. They used seaweed-based sequins. It was all kind of very ephemeral and kind of very ganny. I think that, you know, there's been other brands that have also been using kind of parts of Copenhagen, for example, to showcase their identity, which I think is a model that a lot of other brands adopted later on.

16:28Zofia Zwieglinska: So, Saxpots kind of had different locations around the city that it would kind of highlight by putting on shows there. You know, Cicely Banssen kind of had very romantic, kind of intricate Nordic inspired design that would also kind of cement that aesthetic, which I think also got very popular with influencers and kind of creators in that space. A lot of things are very kind of recognizable, even if you can't see the brand name on any of the tags. So again, that kind of recognizability, I think is what brought a lot of these brands into the wider kind of fashion sphere. And I think that the one thing that I really wanted to highlight was Divisions who did this like tablecloth moment for its autumn 23 dinner show there was like a model who stood up and appeared to kind of pull up the whole tablecloth from the dinner because it was her dress and the place settings were basically left they didn't break any plates which I thought was a really cool thing and I think that's the that's the kind of ideas and mentality that Copenhagen's been known for and obviously like that business model is great for brands which are smaller, you know, who are kind of discovering things.

17:40Zofia Zwieglinska: But Copenhagen, as you mentioned, is kind of more established now. Like, you know, we're celebrating its 20th year anniversary. A lot of its brands have become very, very big. So what do you think has to happen now for, you know, Copenhagen to take its next step and grow and kind of develop a little bit more? Like, does it have to take on more independent brands? I know that we've got some brands this season showing from Largos, which I think is another kind of emerging capital for fashion. You know, is there going to be a wider engagement with other types of fashion kind of aesthetics as it grows?

18:14Zofia Zwieglinska: Like, what's your take on it? So I think one of the most powerful things it could do in terms of Copenhagen Fashion Week to really maintain its relevance would be to join up with the other fashion weeks in the region. You know, they're all still kind of competing with each other, Oslo Fashion Week, Stockholm Fashion Week, and really use Copenhagen as sort of the center of, you know, the center for fashion for the region, because it is, you know, it is really on its way to becoming this global kind of fifth Fashion Week. And I think in order to preserve that and cement that, there's so much amazing talent from across the region, which really needs to be celebrated.

18:55I read something on, it was Copenhagen Fashion Week that said that, you know, fashion is now the third biggest export for Denmark. So it's obviously huge part of the economy. And I think you'll notice it even, you know, with influencers we follow, even the ones that aren't Scandinavian have really adopted that aesthetic. We've adopted it in our interiors. You know, it's hugely influential and it really has staying power. so and I would love that I would love to see it continue to evolve and grow I think that it's really well positioned to kind of set sustainability objectives for other fashion weeks because it's really excelled in that space and no one knows it better than they do which you know again I mentioned it before but I think that's really a nice cultural aspect about the Nordics and about Denmark.

19:49But yeah, I think getting brands such as Acne to come back to Copenhagen will really attract international press. And that, and also, you know, content creators, large media platforms, you know, it's not just about editors anymore, but making sure that they have that. I mean, they have done really smart partnerships in the past with TikTok, and I think they will continue to do that. One of the things that's amazing about the region is, you know, they are very, very tech forward. So, you know, in my time, I interviewed a lot of entrepreneurs. There's so many founders, so many unicorn countries, Spotify comes to mind, Klarna, you know, they're really on top of all of the digital innovation.

20:35You know, you mentioned some of them, but it is just incredible to see, you know, how advanced they are in certain aspects. And I think that's something that will continue to help, you know, sort of establish them as this leading fashion week on the calendar.

20:51Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a really interesting point because you don't really have that much of a connection with tech like you would maybe in London or in Paris. I think that it's a lot less developed. I think there's a little bit of resistance as well to adopting certain types of technologies. So it might be a reasoning for why some of those brands could do better with it. And obviously the sustainability credentials as well make it a lot easier for some of these brands to think about, you know, efficiencies that can be achieved with technology too. You know, obviously you've been in fashion for a really long time.

21:25Zofia Zwieglinska: And I think that, you know, fashion has also become a much harder business than maybe it was when Gany was exploding and kind of growing. You know, there's higher costs, you know, tougher wholesale, like luxury demand has slowed down. You know, do you think that it's possible for a brand to come out of Copenhagen now, like, you know, Dan Gani did back then? Yeah, I do think it's possible. I think in some ways, it's a lot harder. In a lot of other ways, it's a lot easier. You know, brands now have, you know, a free marketing platform, Instagram, TikTok, whatever it is, whatever social media platform you want to use, which can really expand a brand's reach incredibly quickly.

22:12So in a lot of ways, it's almost easier to garner attention for your brand. You know, 20 years ago, you have to hope an editor would come to your show if they'd see it on the schedule. You know, if it didn't conflict with, you know, if you were an emerging brand, if it didn't conflict with the other bigger shows on the schedule. Whereas now you can probably DM an editor outright and say, hey, please come to this. or a content creator or a fashion influencer, you know, you can message them directly and say, hey, please wear some, you know, one of my brand's pieces. So I do think it's possible. And I think talent always speaks for itself.

22:50So, you know, when a collection is really beautiful and the, you know, it's extreme, you know, it's so obvious that there's talent on display, it really doesn't matter, people will pick up on it. I think about Christopher Kane, when he had his debut collection from Central Saint Martin. I think he got hired at Versace straight away. He didn't have, at that time, press or backing. But I think real talent really, I like to think maybe I'm a romantic, but I think it does show through.

23:21Zofia Zwieglinska: No, I mean, I'm definitely the same opinion. And to be honest, a lot of the things that we talk about on the podcast with our co-hosts is, what is the kind of value in a fashion week nowadays? especially, you know, as you mentioned, you know, social media is your own kind of marketing platform. You can get influencers to wear your items out on the street. So they kind of put that forward to their audience. What do you think kind of comes out of a fashion week now, you know, just as we're thinking about Copenhagen Fashion Week, like what's the value? Is it still the same as before? Like, has it changed?

23:55Zofia Zwieglinska: And especially for brands, you know, what does it mean to still show kind of on the circuit? I think it's so different in so many ways to what it used to be. So I think that there is still value in showing at Fashion Weeks. I still see that there's incredible value. I remember during COVID when everyone was doing digital shows and obviously as I was digital editor, people kept saying to me like, oh, you must love this. And I thought, no, people really want to see clothes in real life. People really value in-person experiences. So I think that's one part of it. It's less important probably than it was in some ways because there's so many other ways that you can show your collection, show off your brand.

24:42But I still think that it's obvious by the amount of, you know, content and information that comes out of Fashion Week and the inspiration that we even get from Streetstar that there's still a place for it. People are still excited by it. Editors are still excited by it. And you can't really, it's really hard to quantify, but having a place where you're meeting other talents, being able to meet in real life, that is so, so important to the industry. It's important for any business. I mean, you know, it's why do you, you know, tech businesses do conferences? It's the same sort of reasoning behind it.

25:19You know, this isn't just fun, it's networking. It's, you know, seeing talent up close in real life, like being able to reconnect with contacts, meeting buyers. There's so much more to it than just the runway. And also it's such an important industry for so many creatives. You know, I think about the makeup artists, hairstylists, it's such an amazing way to show off talent in so many different ways. And I think it would be a real shame if we didn't have that anymore you know one of the things that I do like is the fact that Copenhagen has made it so much more sustainable um even in terms of transport getting around from show to show um those practices I'd love to see adopted in other um fashion weeks but yeah I do think there's a place for it love that um and finally you know

26:09Zofia Zwieglinska: let's do a quick fire round what's the best show that you've seen in in Copenhagen oh my gosh the best show I think it was probably Gani they had a um collection where they had all of the cast from this show that was huge it's big on Netflix called Young Royals and I absolutely loved that um just because I loved that show and obviously the clothes were beautiful yeah um most underrated Scandinavian brand or one that you're watching? Ooh, most underrated. I'd say Steenagoya, I'd say is underrated, like should be so much bigger than they are. The clothes are amazing. One trend that you'll kind of expect to see this week?

26:57Trend? I don't think anyone is giving up flip-flops anytime soon. That seems to be like cool girl uniform um and i think more ugly shoes like ugly shoes as in you know we're just going to see some weird things wedges um ytk revival is still strong so wedge flip-flops is something

27:16Zofia Zwieglinska: i'm expecting to see a lot of oh yeah and the weather's definitely going to still be hot over there so i expect a lot of flip-flops too um and then you know one kind of prediction for this season show formats clothes anything like that i think that we're gonna see um people going for presentations and even if they've booked you know to do a catwalk show we're gonna expect to see a lot of creativity um like you mentioned the tablecloth incident you know that's really uh i think it's really evocative of how designers their approach fashion they're very fearless um they like to have fun so i think we're gonna see lots of surprising things surprising accessories that's something that copenhagen fashion week always excel at you know you always see you know these right really like utra oversized handbags or you know expect to be unexpected um and everything you know those kind of things are the things that always stand out i think it was like the bandana trend uh was a couple of years ago now but as soon as everybody saw the street style from copenhagen fashion week you saw it everywhere so i expect that you know whatever we do see we're going to see a lot of it on street style in London and in the US as well yeah definitely all right well thank you so much Natalie for joining us talk a little bit about Copenhagen and its 20th year anniversary it's been such a pleasure to have you and really appreciate your kind of deep dive and personal experience you know attending the shows and watching what's to come next so thank you so much thanks for having me

28:52Zofia Zwieglinska: And that's all the time that we have this week. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening to this. It really helps us out a lot. Thanks for listening.