Is London Fashion Week really back?

0:05Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our international reporter Zofia Zwieglinska. Hello, Zofia. How are you?

0:15Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, very good. Thank you. Thank you for being here. We covered New York Fashion Week last week, but this week we're talking all about London Fashion Week, which ran from September 17th to September 21st. I know you were out and about running to a lot of shows, getting sick from it, which is a classic fashion reporter experience to run around Fashion Week and then immediately become ill afterwards. It's happened to me many times. How was it? How are you feeling? Yeah, I mean, it was really good. Obviously, we had a lot of big moves in London this season. and I think you know considering the spring summer is always kind of a little bit more interesting in terms of the collections I think there was a good kind of divisive take on on a lot of the designers I think with the fact that there was quite a few kind of debuts or returns it made for a more interesting and kind of varied assortment to the designers that usually show because I think there's a lot of kind of returning names in London and it can feel a little bit stale They all have very kind of singular identities and styles.

1:21Zofia Zwieglinska: So it was a nice change. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I also feel like from my perspective over here in New York is that London has a lot of mainstays and a lot of stuff that's very traditional. But I do feel like there's a good amount of exciting emerging designers, which we've talked about in previous podcast episodes. But I was not there and you were. So I'm going to let you take the lead on giving your take on London Fashion Week. But really quick, I wanted to talk just for a second about an update on something we talked about on the New York Fashion Week episode last week, which is Stephen Kolb, the president of the CFDA, many people probably heard at this point, was videotaped in a violent altercation with PETA protesters at the Kost show.

2:02It kind of overshadowed a lot of other stuff at New York Fashion Week. Unfortunately, he issued an apology and then he was on leave. And I think Jill and I said, seems likely that he's probably not going to come back. And that is now official between last week and now. He did resign from the CFDA and they haven't named a replacement yet. He had talked about maybe retiring soon anyway. It's unfortunate that this is kind of his, you know, how he went out. But yeah, I just wanted to say, since we talked about it a lot last week, that that was confirmed. He did leave the CFDA and next season there will presumably be a new president, a new CEO of the organization.

2:42Were there any violent altercations at London Fashion Week? Did you see anybody covering anyone's mouth or shoving them against a wall? No.

2:50Zofia Zwieglinska: And to be honest, I think that, you know, considering that cost-paid parent H &M also showed at London Fashion Week this season, they were very restrained in terms of how they handle the protesters. Because obviously Peter took the opportunity to have a couple of protesters actually come to the H &M runway in Olympia. There was three protesters in total who came onto the runway sporting signs, and they were very gently escorted out by security. I think that there may have been more, but from what I saw by some of the people kind of running around, I think H &M stepped in and kind of didn't let anyone else kind of come close to the catwalk after the third one.

3:33Well, that's probably good that they were being very cautious about that. Yeah, so let's get into more with London Fashion Week. I know there were some big shows. Alexander McQueen made the big comeback. Christopher Kane had his first show at Mulberry, a couple others. Where do you want to start? Which one do you want to talk about first?

3:53Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, I think it'd be good to talk a little bit about maybe just the season in general, just to introduce it. And then we could maybe start with Mulberry. Obviously, you mentioned McQueen. Christopher Kane showed his first kind of Mulberry collection, but there was also a number of kind of more corporate brands on the runway. So eBay was back with its endless runway. M &S staged its first kind of official runway show where everything was under 50 pounds. So I think it was under$67, which I think is quite unique. And then Burberry obviously closed the week with a collaboration with artist Celia Birtwell.

4:29Zofia Zwieglinska: I got some kind of info from the British Fashion Council kind of after London Fashion Week wrapped in terms of how popular it has been with international visitors, which has been a little bit of a concern in the past. Said that accredited buyer attendance rose 19 % from last September and international buyer attendance rose 41%. And I think considering how many of the brands in London kind of rely on international spend, you know, to buy up some of their items. We've seen, you know, Connor Ives, who was initially showing in London for many, many seasons, showing in New York this season. I think that's also got to do with the fact that probably a lot of his customer base is based over there.

5:12Zofia Zwieglinska: So I think that's been a really encouraging sign for designers. but obviously the BFC hasn't actually given actual buyer numbers so who's ordering what or said whether those visits have actually led to any orders yet. I still think there's a little bit of a gap as I said at the beginning between the people who kind of go into the runway rooms and actually watch the collections and then how those collections are received afterwards online. Usually the photos and things get scrutinized a lot more than what happens kind of in the rooms you get a lot of kind of glorification of the designers, which I guess is to be expected, considering all of the relationships that happen at Fashion Week and how difficult those are to be maintained.

5:54Zofia Zwieglinska: But it feels particularly kind of present with London. And I think that's something to keep in mind, reading some of these reviews this time around. Yeah, definitely. Well, two things. I totally agree that being at a show can give a very different experience than looking at the photos later. I mentioned this last week, but Jill and I both went to the retrofetch show and it was in this big, beautiful ballroom and they had martinis and cigarettes and like the music was loud. I was like, I thought it was, it was such a cool vibe. And then later I was looking at the clothes and I was like, yeah, you know, they're, they're pretty cool.

6:28But it was definitely in, in the moment, it felt very cool. But yeah, the, the, the London Fashion Week feeling bigger, like I, I kind of felt the same way with New York Fashion Week. It was exciting. There were big shows, there were big names there. The clothes were cool. There was drama and controversy. It's interesting to see that London Fashion Week also kind of felt a little bigger and had big name shows and that the numbers backed that up too. So where did you say you want to start? Mulberry?

6:55Zofia Zwieglinska: Mulberry, yeah. I think that's the biggest kind of showcase for the season. Also one of those brands, I think alongside Burberry is most well-known in the UK. Maybe like Aquascutum, but I don't even know what's happening with them these days. I think there's a couple of brands that are very quintessentially British. And they also have had a bit of a moment, you know, in the last 20 years. And I think Mulberry is one of them. So this season, Christopher Cain, who's a very well-known designer and someone who had his own label until 2023, he's actually joined as the creative director for Mulberry.

7:30Zofia Zwieglinska: And I think Mulberry, you know, had a moment, I'd say like 10 or 15 years ago, where everyone wanted a Bayswater bag or an Alexa bag. and I feel like they've fallen off a little bit. They had some interesting collaborations with Regina Pio. I think there were some interesting kind of concepts that they had around their campaigns, but they never really took control of their ready-to-wear. And it seems like this time around, it's kind of a big focus for them this season. Obviously, they've also got a new-ish CEO, Andrea Baldo, who's formerly of Gani, and obviously he did a massive turnaround with Gani, kind of brought them up to one of the biggest brands coming out of Europe.

8:10Zofia Zwieglinska: He's kind of brought in a focus on full price bags. We've seen kind of the full price selling conversation happening across many brands in the luxury space. And obviously, a big focus on British craft as well, according to the earnings. Just unlike revenue bits, they arose 4 % to$167 million in the last financial year. And they've narrowed some of their losses as well. Sales were up this quarter as well. So Kane being the creative director of Ready to Wear is meant to bring a bigger focus to Ready to Wear as a kind of sales driver as well. And that first collection is arriving in stores in January.

8:50Zofia Zwieglinska: Did you see the collection? What do you think? I did look at all of the shows that you had put in your notes as like ones you wanted to talk about, I did look them up. And I had seen in your notes that you wrote that the Christopher Kane's collection of Mulberry was a little severe. And like the first one I saw was this very stark gray coat that was just like, you know, overwhelmingly gray. I agree about the severity. It's very like white and gray and like kind of solid silhouettes, a little brutalist almost. But cool. I mean, not bad in my opinion. What did you think? yeah I think the outerwear in particular like um obviously the motif that they had throughout the whole collection is these almost like squared closings that were meant to emulate the closings on a bayswater bag I think it's an interesting motif I just don't know if I would have like plastered it everywhere like it was with this collection but that might have been slightly more kind of corporate driven just to kind of announce the the collaboration between the biggest bag and the biggest designer.

9:54Zofia Zwieglinska: But I think, you know, Kane is an incredible designer. He did great things with his own brand. And while commercially it may have not been as successful, I think having the two kind of come together might marry some of that innovative kind of quality that he adds to some of the skirting and the outerwear that we saw with this collection. And maybe we'll see a little bit more flexibility next season. I think some of the editors attending the show that I spoke to kind of said the same thing that they kind of hope he has a little bit more creative freedom in the next collection. Yeah. How would you stack it up against some of the other creative director debuts over the last year, like Demna and Gucci?

10:36Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely one of the more muted ones, again, just because of how commercial it feels. But there were some interesting pieces. I think there was like some parkas with elongated like hoods that were kind of covered up and put up and I think those were really interesting but I do think you need a little bit more creativity for London to actually make your mark sometimes I think especially with occasion wear and outerwear and kind of suiting it can end up feeling a little bit samey across brands so maybe working out a little bit more of a signature would be you know a good way to go I don't think the Bayes water motif in itself is enough of a signature to to kind of stamp Christopher Kane on the brand.

11:21Yeah, I would agree with that. Okay, you want to talk about Alexander McQueen a little bit? That was another big one this week.

11:29Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, definitely. So McQueen obviously is a massive brand that is returning to London after many, many seasons in Paris. London is the city where, you know, Alexander McQueen kind of made its home. The whole identity of the brand comes from England and Scotland in some ports. And the move was one of the first kind of big decisions under its new CEO, Gianfranco Datis, who arrived in June at the brand. Kering has been kind of unusually clear about the commercial direction for McQueen for this season. And to be honest, I think under the new CEO as well, it wants McQueen to be known for British tailoring and occasional wear.

12:10Zofia Zwieglinska: And it's also adjusting the store and kind of wholesale network to support that. um carrying doesn't break out mcqueen sales so we don't know exactly how well it's doing but it hasn't been doing super well in the past based on kind of reporting and people that i've spoken to um a lot of the the brand's kind of signature pieces have been very heavily relied on so things like the scarf print um or for example the the clutch bag even sometimes the sneakers i think have maybe cheapened the brand a little bit compared to what it was like under sarah burton so obviously with Sean McGeer leading the the creative direction here it was a really big moment for the brand to kind of come back to London and I think there was some good elements you saw Huntsman tailoring Huntsman is a really well-known Savile Row tailor Savile Row is kind of globally renowned for for tailoring and for suiting some nice bits of like evening dresses lace and and some harnesses the setting was very kind of interesting and characteristic.

13:12Zofia Zwieglinska: I think it would have made a very impressionable kind of character in the show, in the photos at least. But I think the reaction to the show was still quite split. There's an over-reliance, I think, on some of the signatures, on the things that kind of made McQueen what it was. And I don't think there's really that much kind of newness coming from the brand. It's all very similar to what McQueen put out. And I think this is a real problem with Alexander McQueen is that the best parts of the brand are kind of things that have happened, you know, 10, 20 years ago. And commercializing archive pieces is not really a business strategy, in my opinion, and definitely not for a brand as kind of innovative and interesting as McQueen.

13:56Zofia Zwieglinska: I think it's funny as well that Plato's Atlantis, which was one of the collections from McQueen, actually one of the pieces got auctioned off this week for like insane amounts. And it's obviously clear that so much of like the original archive is what's actually desired rather than these kind of reproductions or copies even if they are coming from you know the same hands and kind of couture setting that the house is originating with because obviously they still work with you know the hand embroiders with the same kind of manufacturers I don't think there's been many changes there but yeah I think it's a bit it's a bit of a tough one for for the brand I think the But one thing that got a lot of criticism in this collection was the armor-like shoes and glasses that were referenced to a bag that McQueen had put out a couple of seasons ago.

14:48Zofia Zwieglinska: A lot of that kind of felt like, again, kind of just commercializing archive motifs rather than maybe bringing out something that was truly kind of new and different and unique to the director as well. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like what you're describing is a challenge that I think a lot of luxury fashion or runway designer fashion has to deal with, especially for like a storied house that's been around for a long time, is how do you balance like keep building the legacy and referencing the iconic pieces from the past without feeling like you're just over reliant on them and not evolving in some way.

15:27And I think for designers, there's often kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing where you either keep everything the same and then it's like no innovation or you do all new stuff. And then it's like they're disrespecting the, you know, the brand's history. Obviously, people do it all the time successfully. So there is a way to balance it. And many great designers are great at doing that. But I can see that being such an easy trap to fall into of going too far and then you alienate people not going far at all and it feels stagnant. Did you feel like it was more one or the other?

16:04Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, I definitely felt like it was still more stagnant than it should be. I think it's one of those things where maybe if you see the craftsmanship up close, and I think some of the Reese's showed the intricacies of some of the pieces, that felt more McQueen. but I think in terms of like the the rebelliousness the the kind of edginess that was so like symbolic with McQueen and in his early days and heydays I think that feels like it's gone like there's no there's nothing left in the well like essentially you're scraping at the bottom of the barrel yeah yeah I agree okay I want to get to a couple other shows um I know you have some thoughts about Burberry which I would love to hear I always think it's funny that Mulberry and Burberry are like the two of the biggest ones and they both have Burry in the name.

16:52I'm sure there's some shared etymology there. But yeah, what did you think of the Burberry show?

16:58Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, so a different venue this time around. It was held at, I believe, the Chelsea College of Arts. Typically, the Burberry tent has become like a synonymous part of the London Fashion Week kind of schedule, but they have moved things around and changed venues in the past. It again kind of felt a little bit more austere than some of the other kind of presentation formats there was like a London Bridge one recently this one was just kind of boxes with a Burberry logo where people sat on it and then the rest of it felt very kind of cold and a little bit clinical which was a little bit of a contrast to the clothing itself because that actually felt surprisingly fresh and also a little bit younger, which I would give kudos to CEO Joshua Shulman, who kind of has put that interest in Burberry as a kind of younger, fresher brand back in the business.

17:51Zofia Zwieglinska: He's also been the one who's kind of made the outerwear and scarves a kind of centerpiece of the brand before there was a lot of focus on ready to wear. There was some interest in shoes under the previous designers, but Burberry has gone through a lot of iterations. And I think that has made it a little bit of a confusing business for customers to understand. And I think Josh was trying to bring in a little bit more stability and kind of easier to understand codes. There's some kind of sports pieces, I think, that were really cool. I don't know which part you thought was kind of most interesting from the show.

18:27Well, so two things is, one, it's interesting that you say that they've sort of made outerwear and scarves the centerpiece because I think for me, the number one thing I associate Burberry with is the classic taupe trench coat. Is taupe the right color? You know what I mean? The light brown belted trench with the print on the inside and the lining. I think outerwear, and I kind of like that they have that sort of niche. I know they do all sorts of other stuff, but for me, I feel like that's the thing I most strongly associate them with, and I think it's not a bad thing to kind of lean into that.

18:59But I do also, I always think they do cool stuff with print. And this collection had a lot of cool patterns. I think they were working with an artist, yes, collaborating on some of those prints and patterns, which I just thought were all beautiful. And I remember a couple of years ago when they introduced that new pattern and it's like the T and B interlocked, or maybe it's like a new iteration of that pattern. I don't know. I always think they do cool stuff with that. And from what I saw of this collection, they definitely didn't shy away from both outerwear. There was a lot of beautiful trenches and Macs and different colors and materials and lots of cool patterns.

19:38So I was a fan from what I saw.

19:41Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, I think there was definitely a kind of lightness to the collection that maybe there wasn't in previous ones. I think there's been definitely a change in terms of that aesthetic. There was a lot of very kind of light spring-like embroidery. I think there was some flowers, There was some purples and yellows that were very kind of light and airy on the runway. I think there was even some chiffon trenches, which I actually thought were done a couple of seasons ago. And now it feels like they're bringing them back to kind of bring in maybe something that's a little bit more weather appropriate as well.

20:14Zofia Zwieglinska: Because some of the trenches can feel a little heavy, you know, even in the London heat that we're getting nowadays. You know, with also Shulman previously being a CEO at Coach, I think it's interesting how they're bringing in a kind of a younger audience too in terms of the influencers before the runway. I spotted a couple of posts that were very kind of teen, like they gave me kind of Coach campaign ideas and kind of looks. And I think that Burberry might be trying to kind of go after the same group of influencers that were popular with Coach. And I think that's an interesting mix considering how much more adult Burberry feels.

20:57Zofia Zwieglinska: But I do think that, you know, a lot of brands are undergoing this transformation when they are thinking about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. And I think there's more to be done in terms of the visuals to kind of appeal to a younger audience too. But I think that freshness was fun. Some of the critics did say that, you know, they thought of Dries van Leuten when they saw the colors and the prints, which I think is an interesting comparison and a fair one. There was definitely some things there that looked like it. Yeah, no, I definitely thought it was notable, a little bit more brighter, lighter aesthetic, almost a little 70s with some of the fun patterns.

21:35So yeah, I was interested in it. Let's talk about a few more. What were some of the other notable shows? And then I have a thought or two of things I saw or things I'm curious if you saw, but I'll save those for the end. Yeah, what other show did you want to talk about?

21:53Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, so let's move on to the fully commercial mass kind of section of London Fashion Week, which I don't think is a big presence at New York Fashion Week, except for COS. But I do think it's a very big proposition when it comes to London. H &M has put on a number of shows at London Fashion Week, and the M &S has also put its first runaway collection out this time I think I mentioned before but half of the collection was priced below you know 50 pounds so 67 dollars and it was also available to shop immediately after the show same as the H &M one the the M &S one was streamed through Zalando which is like a big kind of e-commerce platform in Europe and so wondering kind of how that did from a kind of financial perspective in terms of sales how many people actually looking out for it but I think see by see now buy now has been a concept that is also kind of evolved with other parts of fashion too um eBay's endless runway has been doing that for its um kind of eBay designer pieces that it's been featuring um for a couple of seasons now both in London and in New York I think it's also done some things in Paris too um I was sitting next to someone who was very eagerly looking for the alias skirt that was out on the catwalk and was struggling to buy it in the moment.

23:18Zofia Zwieglinska: I think she ended up getting it in the cab after the show, but very, very interesting how a lot of these kind of instant buy collections are a real popularity in London. And I do think that has something to do with the accessible pricing. You know, a lot of shoppers are still kind of reticent on spending a lot more on fashion. I think that's a bigger difference than what it is in New York. I still think that New York shoppers will probably be able to afford a slightly higher price point. Yeah. Okay. So I'm glad you brought this up because this is one of the things I wanted to ask. At New York Fashion Week, Jill and I both noticed a lot more accessibility and wearability.

23:59We deemed it brands, even brands that are not necessarily mass focused, brands that are designer brands and do ready to wear more. Either the clothing was literally priced more accessibly or even just aesthetically was a little bit more something you might feasibly wear without looking like a lunatic. Did you get some of that vibe from London Fashion Week? I mean, obviously, some of the more mass brands just by their nature are more accessible. But across the whole week, did you feel like there was any movement toward something a little more wearable, a little more accessible to the average person?

24:37Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, definitely. I think there's actually some designers who I would typically put in this kind of conceptual bucket or people who might be more tailored for occasional wear, who I think this season switched it a little bit and decided to go for something that more people could wear. I think a good designer to highlight here would be De Pezza, who's typically kind of really well known for these water effect tops and dresses. They're very popular as occasional wear pieces, but they're not really something that's wearable on a day-to-day basis. They're quite revealing. And so I think there was some mesh dresses that they put out on the runway this season, and they looked very wearable compared to maybe some of those kind of more signature pieces.

25:21Zofia Zwieglinska: And I think there have been some of the other designers, too, who are looking to at least incorporate some maybe like suiting or occasional things that, you know, could be positioned as separate. Like that's something that I think is definitely more visible in London. Cool. Last thing I want to ask you about is and just, again, observing from afar, I feel like there was a lot of interesting emerging designers or newer designers that are not some of the big blockbuster ones. There was a really good Financial Times article that came out this week highlighting some of those smaller designers who maybe have shown a couple times now at London Fashion Week and it really felt like this season they all kind of showed up with much more polished and established collections.

26:03One I want to call out that I really liked was Talia Beyer, who just had a bunch of really cool, hard to describe, a bunch of cool like Edwardian sort of like ruffles and interesting textural details, some monochrome suiting in interesting colors. That's a brand that I've been sort of aware of for a little bit. And I really felt like that collection that they showed this season seemed very polished. And like I said, the Financial Times noted a couple other independent designers who all came out with something that felt like a step up from what they had been doing before. What did you see in terms of independent designers or maybe some of the smaller or newer ones?

26:44Zofia Zwieglinska: yes i mean obviously not super new but um daniel fletcher at mithra date um whose show i went to on thursday i think is also one of those designers that does very well in terms of balancing that commercial and creative um side of the business the the company um has been doing kind of a lot more in terms of suiting um they do both men's and women's but it's still primarily known for for their menswear. I think it was really interesting the kind of inspirations he took from kind of 80s suit wear. Some of it was kind of Diana inspired and I think it made for a really great color scheme. Some really interesting kind of separates as well.

27:27Zofia Zwieglinska: It does feel like especially this season there's a lot more kind of individual pieces that I think would be tailored almost for buyers or department stores. It kind of seems like London itself has gotten a little bit more commercial and a tiny bit less kind of creative. There's obviously some other designers, you know, like Erdem, Knowles, Simone and Chepova who have done amazing things in terms of establishing London as this very creative place. But, you know, they've also done some more commercial things too. So, Erdem's really well known for the occasion where Knowles is kind of looking at a little bit more of that leather market, which I think is still relatively underpenetrated, especially from younger designers.

28:13Zofia Zwieglinska: Simone, you know, still doing a lot of occasion wear, a lot of bridal wear, but also the collaborations. And similarly to Susan Fang, whose show I went to as well, there's collaborations that kind of bring this extremely creative energy to items like bags or footwear with Crocs. And I think that's been really, really popular in terms of kind of commercial success. And then Tripove has always also done kind of more interesting smaller pieces like belting, as well as fragrance, which I think is still something that a lot of these runway brands don't do. Like, where is this kind of step into beauty to expand your universe and kind of also make the product a little bit more accessible?

28:56Yeah. And I know that you said at the top that there was data around more buyer attendance at London Fashion Week this season. What was their reaction, or what do you feel their reaction was like from some of the buyers or the people whose decisions really decide whether these shows were worth it?

29:16Zofia Zwieglinska: Yeah, so I mean, obviously, famously, buyers would typically miss out London just because it wouldn't be something that they would be able to easily buy into. Obviously, the cycles for a lot of these department stores and kind of stores is pretty fast. So whatever they want to see on the runway, they don't really want to make too many changes. And if they do, then that requires extra work and obviously extra money for that too. So in a BFC release kind of post London Fashion Week, David Desaroy of the Shout Hoob Group, who we've talked to many times in terms of their kind of technology innovation, he said that he discovered brands with potential for Dubai and the wider Gulf.

29:58Zofia Zwieglinska: Obviously, we know how important that is for the luxury market. And David Teeleboll from Bloomingdale's was there too. They also said that, you know, those are kind of promising contacts for an independent designer and someone who might want to kind of expand their brand into new markets. Also kind of got some initial reaction from Harrod's fashion buying director, Simon Longland, who has commented many a time now for Glossy's Luxury Briefing, but he said that Erdem was the show that kind of best met the moment. And Harrods is always looking for like an occasional wear customer. So Erdem has got a very signature look and some of the pieces this season, I think were kind of a culmination of creativity, which he said he's actually most interested in investing in.

30:46Zofia Zwieglinska: So very away from that kind of commercial mindset and more towards maximum creativity, maximum craft. And I think, yeah, that's a really interesting story. Some of the stuff that we've reported on also has to do with, you know, how a lot of these independent designers think about kind of sponsorship and how to make sure that their brands can actually carry on successfully. How can they afford the show? Yeah, exactly. And that's been such a big feature, I think, of past reporting, especially kind of post-COVID. You know, we've talked about it with New York Fashion Week designers and same with London.

31:20Zofia Zwieglinska: and I think a big part of that now is sponsors. So a show that I covered today is Claudia Smith who's a debut designer in the kind of all couture field. She was sponsored by Pinterest to kind of put on the show at the British Museum which is an incredible kind of feature and something that is definitely a bit of a showstopper and designer Maximilian Reitner said an interview as well that sponsors provide more backing for his labels and clothing sales, custom work or rentals. So think about kind of how important that is for an independent designer who's basically like whole job is also finding money for the brand and making sure that that is commercially kind of successful.

32:02Zofia Zwieglinska: And, you know, we talked about kind of Chupova, Simone and Susan Fang, like all of those kind of also rely on sponsors and collaborations to kind of make the business feasible. and I think in fact I would say that London designers have become almost kind of experts in how to do that in such a way where you're marrying that commerciality with the creativity. Yeah yeah I feel like we are definitely going to see more out-of-the-box sponsors that at all the fashion weeks in in the future I'm still thinking about the was it ranch dressing or what was the the weird sponsor from last year. Hold on. I want to make sure I get that right.

32:46Zofia Zwieglinska: What's the brand? Wasn't it like salad dressing or something? Yeah, it was. It was like famous. Oh, searching dressing doesn't work because it's like dressing is like wearing clothes. Oh, yeah. Hidden Valley Ranch. Okay, okay. Yeah. So we were right. Okay, before we wrap up, Zofia, if I had to make you do like one or two sentence review of the whole week, like how would you, I feel like we went into a lot of detail. which was great, but how would you rate the overall week compared to previous seasons and just in general? Yeah, I mean, I would say it's definitely a little bit more sharp, as we've said, like a little bit more commercial.

33:23Zofia Zwieglinska: I do think that there's a lot of brands that still have some ways to go in terms of understanding kind of how they should be working with buyers and making it easy for sponsors to work with them as well. And yeah, I do still want the BFC and the kind of wider London community thinks a little bit more about the reception of, you know, what it's like to actually be in a room versus being outside of it. I think it makes for a more interesting conversation. But yeah, I do think that, you know, the key traditional heritage London designers are definitely back in a bigger way and something to watch, you know, both from Mulberry and Burberry, but also, you know, and all the other independents that have done so well to kind of carry on the brands without bigger financial backing yeah well i really appreciate you sharing all your uh insight and experience this week and i'm sorry you ended up getting a little sick from it but and and then i'm also sorry that i made you talk with like a sore throat this whole time uh it's fine everything's worth it for fashion but that's that's the spirit that's what we like to hear thank you zofia and thank Thank you all for listening.

34:37And thank you for listening to The Glossy Podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this, because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to The Glossy Podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders. And we can review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.