What Chloe Malle's first September issue means for Vogue

0:04Jill Manoff: Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our wonderful editor-in-chief, Jill Manoff. Hello, Jill.

0:13Danny Parisi: You're wonderful. Hi. I hope I remember how to do this. It's been a while.

0:17Jill Manoff: It's been a minute since you've been on, and it's definitely been a minute since it's been just the two of us. So welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. Thank you for being here. it's still August as we're recording this but the Vogue September issue has already hit the newsstands we both scoured our respective cities to find a copy as we know the September issue is the most important issue of the year for Vogue so much so that they named a whole documentary after it so we both tracked down copies and we thought we would do a little review and talk about the this September issue it's the first one with Chloe Mal running the show she was previously editor of Vogue.com.

0:53Jill Manoff: She's now head of editorial content for American Vogue. Probably a lot of people know that. But this is her first September issue since she took over in that role. And yeah, I thought it'd be fun to discuss it, to say what we think of it. I'm going to start with the theme and the cover, because I feel like this generated a lot of discussion already. But the cover is Kaya Gerber and Homer Geer, who are both starring in this FX show called The Shards. And most notably, they are both nepo babies and their parents were on the cover of vogue together because their parents were married uh briefly in the 1990s richard gear and cindy crawford and chloe mal is also famously a nepo baby and so the whole episode or the whole issue has nepo baby kind of theme all over it which i i i gotta say i find a little off-putting the way they because they really lean into it the the cover literally says kaya and homer making their own way i'm like come on they're just kids just kids making their own way i'm like their way has been made for them no

2:01Danny Parisi: offense to these two but it's the most you're just jealous danny i am jealous i am but it's also it

2:08Jill Manoff: just feels like either they're making a joke about it or they're like rubbing it in that i don't know It feels a little tone deaf to me. And Chloe Mal, her mom's Candace Bergen.

2:20Danny Parisi: I mean, the legend. But yes, and I listened to the podcast where they were talking about this. They also talk about it in the editor's letter. They're making a story out of it. Like, obviously, Chloe taking charge from Anna, that kind of new era type of vibe, handing of the torch. But then the models on the cover, like you said, parents, famous, they're the new class. And then there's also, they reference the designers, the new designers coming in. So, you know, the new Chanel is on the cover. And it's apparently new designer breathing new life into the collections. And Demna has a spread that's doing the same thing at Gucci.

3:04So it's kind of the new class is how I read it.

3:07Danny Parisi: but definitely full of Nepo babies.

3:10Jill Manoff: Yeah, I know. And Chloe Mao had a letter from the editor at the beginning that says exactly that, like explicitly tying the theme to all these fashion houses that have new creative directors who are taking on this big legacy, which I think is cool. I think it's cool to highlight that. I personally don't think it's a very good analogy because, you know, taking over a big fashion house and taking the creative realm is not the same as like just having famous parents and like doing the same thing. And also a lot of the designers that they're highlighting are not Nepo babies. Like Demna is a refugee from Georgia.

3:43Jill Manoff: And Matthew Blasey got hired by Raf Simmons, like based on the strength of his graduate design work. You know, like neither of them have fashion parents or anything like that. So I don't know. I feel like that's not really a good. It's a stretch of an analogy. But I didn't think of it that you're right that Chloe Mao is also kind of in that same spot of taking over a very, stepping into very big shoes.

4:06Danny Parisi: Yes. I mean, you're right, though. If we went with the correct analogy, it's probably Chloe taking over for Anna, designers taking over for the old designer. And maybe on the cover, it's the rather than like the kids of former stars, or they're still stars. But there it's like the new supermodels or something, you know, like who's the new class of cover model. Yeah. Anyway, but there's also the kind of old meets new with Stephen Mizell shooting, famous Vogue photographer. Amazing still, I think. But then they had this stylist, Spencer Singer, who, I mean, they took a risk, I would say. I think that it was his first time styling for Vogue in general.

4:53Danny Parisi: And it's the September issue cover and just known for styling Billie Eilish, Lily Rose, Deb, kind of like cool girls. So that's kind of a new look too, kind of feels fresh.

5:07Jill Manoff: Yeah, and I wanted to ask you more about the styling because I thought that the cover shoot looked a little bland to my eye, just like the gray background. And the other thing, and we were talking about this the other day, the Vogue team has talked about wanting to reference like this famous cover with Richard Gere and Cindy Crawford back in the 90s by having these two on. This cover doesn't look anything like that cover. Like the reference is only the fact that it's their separate children. I keep saying their kids. And like, just to be clear, they're not actually siblings. They're like Richard Gere and Cindy Crawford's kids with other people.

5:43Danny Parisi: Separately.

5:44Jill Manoff: Separately. But like the cover doesn't look anything like that Cindy Crawford and Richard Gere cover. Like it's shot differently. The backdrop is different. The pose is different. The framing is different. That portrait was like a portrait, like a cover. no I'm sorry I'm stumbling over my words that cover was a portrait like a close-up of their faces whereas this is a full body shot um Jill I feel like you have more of the styling experience and background like you mentioned like they took a risk with having this new stylist do the September issue cover which is that must be very cool to do your first Vogue uh styling job and it's the September issue cover but do you feel do you think I'm wrong to say that it's a little bland like I'm thinking more like the gray background and everything more than the clothes like the clothes are okay?

6:27The clothes are okay. I mean, her look, I would prefer to be more inspired. It does look like something an older woman would wear, and it doesn't feel necessarily fresh. And there's a lot of fresh, exciting things coming out of Chanel. So, I mean, not my pick for sure. And I compare it to British Vogue, and where I had a totally different reaction. They have Nicole Kidman on the September issue cover. She's looking, it's like a captivating look at the reader.

6:56Danny Parisi: That's like you want, you want, uh, look, you're, you're making eyes at the reader and she's wearing Stella McCartney. I mean, I'm kind of biased. My favorite like color combo is like red with blue and this, like, I want this shirt. Like I immediately thought, what's that outfit? And I started looking it up. Like, that's what you want with a fashion magazine that you want people to dig in and find out what the hot fashion is now. I was more inspired. I thought, um, the model, older, that was kind of an interesting choice and less expected. Something about it, and they're the models of the moment, it's just like Kaya, between Kaya and Gigi and Kendall, which Kaya is maybe coming up more so, when it's those guys, I'm like, okay.

7:39Danny Parisi: It's so obvious. It's so obvious.

7:42Jill Manoff: Yeah, I saw the Nicole Kidman cover, and I think you're right. It was much more visually striking than this one. I think it just reads a little bit like generic fashion magazine issue. Like, I don't think it, like, if you just glanced over it, nothing about it, I think, grabs the eye. Yes. Good for a fashion spread. I don't know about a cover. Yes, I agree. I also wonder for the cover, and we can move on to other topics in a second, but for the cover, I wonder if a better, like, thematic tie-in would have been, like, an actor who is playing a role that someone else, some other actor had played, like, or like Margot Robbie in Wuthering Heights.

8:17Jill Manoff: That's a little old for the September issue, but that came out this year. Like playing a role that's been played many times by other famous actresses or something like that. If they had announced a new James Bond actor, I don't know, maybe that would have been. Like, I feel like something like that is more of a fit than just like, because the roles that they're in, like in the show, The Shards, again, nothing really to do with Richard Gere or Cindy Crawford. So it just feels like a stretch to fit that to the theme.

8:42Danny Parisi: Yes. Last note on the cover. It doesn't say anything like the biggest issue ever, which used to be such a thing maybe 15 years ago. Like that was always. It would be 546 pages, and it would always top it every year. We were talking about the fact that in years past, probably like maybe five, six years, maybe three, four, it felt so slim. Even the September issue was getting down there. So good to see, and we can talk about why that may be. It's pretty sick. Yeah, this one's about 400.

9:16Jill Manoff: Yeah, 390 pages. More than last year. More than last year and not as thick as the heyday for sure, but it still is pretty hefty. Let's talk more about the issue as a magazine because I feel like there's a lot of interesting stuff here about print and digital and how the print fashion magazine has changed over time. I never really got to work at like a regular print periodical, but Jill, I know you have a little bit of that background. So like what's your take on the current state of Vogue, but also just like print fashion media? Like is it still serving the same purpose as it used to? It's interesting that Chloe came from this digital background overseeing Vogue.com because I was thinking while reading this, Maybe I'm jaded and I'm used to reading things that are buzzy and new and I'm reading online.

10:08It's been a long time since I've read print magazine. Although I subscribed to Vogue for years and honestly not that long ago, maybe two years ago, three years ago. But yeah, I was reading the stories and I know that Vogue's been going a different direction where it's not all fashion, fashion, fashion from cover to cover. But, you know, the stories, I didn't feel like reading. Like there was one that was about the women designers reinventing American denim. I thought that was kind of interesting to me. But then there was one talking like an artist discussing her uniform, a political reporter talking about the end of her marriage, somebody talking about improving their mood with Botox.

10:46And it has to be evergreen. They're planning this like months in advance. There was one about the – I think it was basically the dangers of clenching your jaw.

10:55Danny Parisi: I was like, what am I reading here, Vogue? Yes.

10:58Jill Manoff: I saw that one, and they said something about, like, learning not to, like, grit and bear it. And I was like, am I crazy? I thought it was grin and bear it. Isn't that the phrase, or am I insane? I don't know.

11:11Danny Parisi: They're having fun, Dani.

11:13Jill Manoff: I was like, are they intentionally twisting that phrase? Or has that been the phrase the whole time, and I didn't know?

11:21Danny Parisi: Oh, my gosh. Totally. Yeah. There were some. It felt really random. But like how fashion made the silk scarf cool again? Okay, we're seeing the styling more. Yeah, ever since like Caroline Bissette Kennedy, like that look, we started talking about that. People are tying it around their waist. It had some kind of inspo there. There was the story about J.Crew collaborating with Eckhouse Slada and kind of they went in depth. I appreciate the profile pieces. Like there was Julia Louis-Dreyfus. All the backup book kind of thick features felt good. The others that were kind of maybe two pages and they were up in the front of the book, it felt kind of filler and a little bit random.

11:59And I was mentioning to you that what I really missed and that was always so inspiring to me and kind of queued up, inspired some purchases, was like a trend page. Like the old school, we used to do this when I worked for a magazine, like flat lay pages. They're about a trend. It's florals for spring, mad for plaid and fall, whatever the trend is. And it's got a smattering of options. It's got a skirt here, a ring here. And it's kind of like a collage. So fun. It has a little price there. It usually had maybe the website where you could look it up. And I think that's all happening online now. But call out the trends.

12:39And the trend cycles so fast, maybe you can't. And it's the new day and age.

12:43Jill Manoff: Yeah. But yeah, the informational value of a fashion magazine, you would subscribe and get the issues so you could see those things. Like I was telling you before the recording, I used to get GQ as a teen and there would just be like a two page spread. That's that's not an ad, although I'm sure some of the clothes were, you know, comped or whatever. And it would just be like colorful socks are in. Here's like some random, like pretty famous, but not cover famous guy to show how to wear it and like a cool little mini photo shoot. And then you'd move on. And I found that stuff extremely useful as like a young person trying to figure out my style.

13:23Jill Manoff: And I felt like that was missing. I don't want to get sidetracked by ads because I want to do a whole discussion about the ads later. But it also was like some of them were so short that you would like if you grab two pages by once, you just miss it. Like as you're going through this forest of ads, there's so many ads, which I know is not necessarily a new thing. Like you could easily miss an entire article by just like. Like, and I couldn't find the table of contents. And it was, it's like really hard to find the editorial content in there, in the mix. No, you're so right. You're so right. I feel like we used to talk about that the first 50 pages are ads.

13:58Like, that was just like the thing for September issue. I did a little tally, and these are just estimates. I don't think I'm accurate completely. But like, I counted the editorial pages, including like the table of contents, including the fashion spreads, anytime it's not an ad. and of the 390, it looks like there's about 130 to 135. Again, not the newest thing. We all know that front of book is more valuable than back of book and that the back of book is where a lot of the editorial was happening.

14:25Danny Parisi: Before you get to the table of contents, page one of editorial in my eyes, 92 pages. Then the next page, which is also the table of contents, 112. You get to the editors that are 130, the first story or written content is page 168. So I mean, you got to be patient, but the brands are doing the work. I would say that the ads were interesting. They're beautiful. It was good to see that brands are still, I guess it's good. It's good for September issue purposes. They're still investing in this format to do beautiful photo shoots when everything's moving to digital, you know, some of them had that that was their moment to put out their celebrity or like to make a big moment.

15:07We know that like Anne Klein just came out with what's her name? Munn, Olivia Munn.

15:13Jill Manoff: Yeah. So it's kind of they're making trying to do a comeback. I felt like that was like a six page ad or something. Anne Klein with Olivia Munn. Did you see that the whole front of book four page ads as a rule like that is I was not familiar with that. That felt very new to me. Are they filling pages?

15:29Danny Parisi: Are they trying to beef this up? I thought so. Yes, I do think so. So it's four pages of Ralph Lauren to kick it off, four pages of Prada, four pages of Dior. Goes on, goes on, goes on. There are some that are six pages. Montclair had eight pages. It's a lot. They get their own kind of spread. It's worth the investment if they see the payoff.

15:50Jill Manoff: And to go back to the editorial content, And I think you're right that a lot of it doesn't feel super timely. And I think part of that is people are subscribing or people are buying print magazines as one off like collector items as opposed to like a regular rotating periodical source of information. And this is why you see so many like commemorative issues in the grocery store of like random magazines that are like they're not meant to like tell you timely information. They're meant to be something that seems like it'll give you enough value over time that you'll actually buy it. Because anything that's more timely, you probably just will read online.

16:30Jill Manoff: And that's definitely like a huge, I mean, beyond the scope of this conversation, but a huge shift in just like the information ecosystem of the world that has led to that. But you can see it in Vogue that like the big issue that they want people to buy, which, by the way, cost me 12 bucks to buy it. I don't know how much it was for you. I looked it up. We were wrong. I was thinking last year was like$7.99 maybe at the most, but it wasn't just a dollar price increase. Last year was$10.99.

16:57Danny Parisi: But still, yeah, that is like you're buying an art book. It better be beautiful. You're going to lay it on your table if you want to invest in that.

17:05Jill Manoff: If you want to physically have it, it should be, you know, bigger and more timeless and things like that. Personally, I like when something's more timely and more informational. But again, it's like just the convenience of digital, I think, just completely overrides that, which is kind of a shame. I do love the culture of print media and print magazines and print newspapers, but it's just unfortunate that things have moved that way. Yeah. And you have to wonder kind of how these ads came together, what the money exchange looks like in terms of the ads, if they're more so interested in digital and maybe this was like an add-on.

17:43And some of the ads we talked about, it's kind of just like wasted space in the magazine. There's an ad at the back of the book and maybe like the brand thought this was striking and compelling and it's worth it for them.

17:56Danny Parisi: As a reader, you're like, what am I looking at? Again, And it's like a Bulgari ad that's got this kind of snake motif weaving through pages. And you open it. There are two different full page spreads where it's just like a coil. Nothing. And I'm like, okie dokie, I guess they're making a statement. There's also that prescription ad that just has all of the dangers of the prescription for a two page spread. Didn't feel very vogue to me. But again, it wasn't in the front of the book. You're going to have that. Anyway, kind of a hodgepodge.

18:28Jill Manoff: I saw that same spread that you're talking about. And just to paint a picture for the listener, it's like two pages of just white paper with plain black text that's just like active ingredients and like their risks and call your doctor if using that, like just all that boring stuff, which I agree did not feel very vogue. there was one ad that really stuck out stuck out to me for multiple reasons and really did not like it but not in the front of the book and later on is where you get more of like macy's and and less like you know ultra luxury ads but right in the middle of the book there was this hideous ai generated sketchers ad and it says down in the in the bottom right corner ai generated model um i i don't know if that's a legal requirement for them to put that there but it looks horrible It looks horrible.

19:16Jill Manoff: And Skechers is so shameless about that. Like if you live in New York, you've probably seen their very ugly AI generated ads on the subway. And they're AI generated in a specific way, which I find uncomfortable, which is like the it's all women. And the women are like so perfectly beautiful in like a freaky way that I just I find that unsettling, you know? Yes. It's so interesting. like I was I think I was reading too fast and I didn't stop and even see that it was AI generated or that it said that I did make note that Skechers was in it thought that that was interesting because there's a lot of non-high fashion brands scattered throughout including like athleisure activewear we see aloe aloe yeah there was a lot of aloe ads and the aloe ads did feel kind of vogue like in style even though they were less you know not like the Skechers one which I if it just looked like a normal magazine ad.

20:15I agree. There was Saratoga Water, there was eBay. Kind of a mix. But we talked about kind of the, again, pay to play or what is actually an ad that reads as editorial. Definitely wanted to mention the fashion spreads and the move on from kind of a stylist-driven look, which hasn't been the norm for a while. And it's unfortunate because, again, that's inspiring to me, where you see a head-to-toe look, you're getting ideas on how to style it. There's a stylist's own ball cab. There's a vintage pair of jeans. And then you've got kind of maybe your Chanel jacket, maybe your Gucci shoes. And it is like styled out.

20:58So fun. And you get ideas. But this one, there's been pushback on this idea concept for a long time of the full page, single designer look. We know this is what brands want. Chanel wants the Chanel page. Of course, yeah. And I don't know that it was directly

21:16Danny Parisi: if these looks are, you know, look to from the runway. We're putting it on page 12 or 100, 212 of Vogue. But I don't know if it's a direct replica. So maybe the stylist has a hand in the mix and they're mixing things up and having fun. But I mean, I was thinking to myself while looking at the Kaya Gerber spread. I mean, they're lucky that she is animated and lively. She's kind of, she reads as an actress, which she is, but she was bringing the interest to the clothes, I would say. I mean, the clothes weren't bad, but it's just an outfit and the plain background. And I'm like, yeah, not inspired, I would say.

21:55Jill Manoff: No, I agree. I mean, but there was this other cool shoot slash story later. Did you see the one that's like set on a train?

22:02Danny Parisi: I did.

22:03Jill Manoff: There was this very cool shoot directed by Baz Luhrmann, the film director, set on this like luxury train with a couple of different theatrical actors like Brian Cox. That looked so cool and elegant and interesting. And the choice of setting I thought was really inspired and added a lot to the vibe. And it just was a contrast to the cover shoot, which was just in this gray studio that, I don't know, was giving Cole's vibes a little bit to me.

22:31Danny Parisi: And that was shot by Annie Leibovitz. And it worked because of the vibe of the shoot. There was also, I think it was for the profile of the kind of head of Zara right now. She was photographed by Annie Leibovitz. And I'm like, God, I don't like how Annie Leibovitz shoots. It's just this always looks like dark and muddy. Like, are you with me? It worked for that train shoot. I like the train shoot.

22:58Jill Manoff: I didn't even realize that it was Annie Leibovitz because it didn't really give that signature style. But I think I agree with you. But I thought the train one was cool. And there is some inspired stuff in there. um okay so we've gone through the the cover the editorial the ads we've talked a little bit about chloe mal and her kind of new leadership of vogue but just to wrap it up jill like chloe comes from the digital side i shouldn't call her by her first name like i know her i've never met her chloe mal comes chloe mal comes from the digital side we talked a little bit about the distinctions between print and digital fashion media and some of the challenges in print but But what do you think this, now having looked through the September issue and knowing a little bit about her background, what do you think that says about where Vogue is going to go under her leadership, particularly coming from that digital background?

23:52I don't want to say there are immediate indicators, but I will say that looking at it, what I thought and hoped would happen based on this content. Like, for example, we talked about the advertiser play and how we're likely seeing those who are paying the most reflected in the magazine. But I was also, you know, there was, I think, six pages of Gucci in the front. Then there was another, maybe four. And then another spread on Demna that was all Gucci, full looks of Gucci, maybe six. I was thinking, you know, clearly Vogue is backing the Demna era of Gucci. I was thinking, are we going to see that?

24:32I would think that we would see that represented on their other channels, on social, on digital. And I was wondering how they're going to bring that content, which was really well done, onto the digital platforms. If that profile, I'm sure you can find it online, but if they're blasting it out on social in unique ways. So I think about somebody who's a more modern editor-in-chief. I guess young is the word I'm looking for, but brings a fresh spin to things is Willa Bennett, who went from like high snob to now she's at 17 in Cosmo. I mean, she leads and now they have print.

25:13Danny Parisi: Tell me if I'm wrong. I think they have sporadic print. Anyway, she takes a social first approach. Like everything that they plan has a social forward. They're thinking about how that's going to be reflected in digital channels. I would hope that because again, print is, they're doing fewer issues of Vogue a year and print is kind of taking this art book format for a lot of folks. This is not their one source of fashion news that they get every month. I would think that they were thinking about like leveraging this content. And we know that the editorial teams are expensive and their time is valuable.

25:54And we're seeing that throughout media. I would just think that all the efforts for this beautiful magazine would be, the thought behind it would be, this will look beautiful and digital. We'll do this with it. We'll piece it out this way and kind of get the most bang for their buck. Again, some of those smaller features, I don't see them performing well. And maybe they perform well on digital. There's all these question marks because maybe people are searching Botox as a mood lifter. I don't know.

26:22Danny Parisi: Why am I clenching my teeth? Probably. Anyway, so there are things that work on digital that don't work on print. But anyway, I would hope that they would mirror each other. I'm talking a lot.

26:31Jill Manoff: No, no, no. I think you're right. And I feel the same way. There was some really good editorial in the issue. The Gucci story I thought was really interesting. The teeth clenching, maybe less so. But there's some cool stuff happening in there. And yeah, I feel like the trend that I'm seeing is moving away from the timely trend analysis and moving all that stuff to digital because it can just move faster and get out there before it's like out of date. And the print is just going to be more and more like this, a huge collection of sometimes very beautiful ads and photography and profiles of people with very rich and famous parents.

27:13Danny Parisi: Danny does not like a Nepo baby. You know, it was a fun addition to this magazine, which I was like, oh, they're back. I haven't seen like an open up fragrance, like rub it on your wrist.

27:23Jill Manoff: Yeah, I noticed that.

27:25Danny Parisi: There were several. I liked it.

27:27Jill Manoff: Those are fun. I'm glad they can still do fun stuff like that. OK, I think that's all the time we have for this episode. But Jill, thank you so much for being here and sharing your insight onto the Vogue September issue. So fun. Thanks, Dani.

27:44Jill Manoff: And thank you for listening to the Glossy Podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this, because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy Podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders, and we can review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.