Alicia Keys on Trusting Yourself and Living Authentically

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1:03When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah. Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In a sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the Goop Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers.

1:50Here to start conversations, because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go. This week we're sharing a gem from the Goop Podcast Archives.

2:08My guest today is the extraordinary Alicia Keys. It's been way too long since I last saw her and I was so glad to have a chance to catch up. Alicia agreed to be part of our virtual In Goop Health Summit this year, which was focused on deepening the connection to our body and I love talking to her about this. I also loved hearing more about her new line of body and skin products called Keys Soul Care, her rituals, her creative process, and her relationships. So let's get to our chat.

2:41I've missed you so much. I haven't seen you in person in a few years. I was watching you on TV the other day because I was watching Song Exploder, that show on Netflix. I love that show. and I felt like I got a real visit with you I felt like I was perched in the back of your studio that song three hour drive holy shit no that song is definitely has its own universe attached to it in this place and I love that song so much and the way that song exploder was able to capture it was just so exciting because you know you you agree to do these things with people and you you feel really excited about what it can be and and you kind of you know you hope for the best and sometimes it comes out really great and sometimes not so great but that one was so special and the way that they were able to incorporate everything it's a song with myself and Sampha who's one of my favorite artists who and this song is on my new album Alicia and it the three-hour drive is so powerful because when we wrote it, you know, he, I just had my son and he just was a son who lost his mother.

3:49So it was this very deep dynamic that we didn't even know we were creating exactly. And it, and it showed that on the show. So thank you for, for talking about it. Cause I love how they did that. It was amazing to watch a song be constructed. And then, and I love that. I love how they do that. And then at the end, they, when they played song in entirety, but it was, And it was amazing to see how he was coming from this place of being, as you said, like he had just lost his mother. And then you're so maternal, you know, it's like you have this these rays of sunshine coming out of you. And I really I really felt that, too.

4:25And and when so had you ever let anybody into the studio like that before? Well, the cool thing is, is I always record the sessions and I always make sure that every session has, we want to capture it because it's just a moment in time that will, that you never know if it's going to just, you never know. It's just a special moment. It's magic. And so we always capture, we always capture each one. And so they actually use the footage that we already had. So they didn't have to kind of be there. we were able to provide it. And then from that, they were able to. Okay. Oh, I see. Oh, that's, that's why it was so like, it was so intimate.

5:08Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Was that in London that you recorded that song? Right. That was in London. I did a lot of work with Jimmy Napes in London. We wrote some great songs together. And, and so in one of those sessions, we happened to just kind of say like, wouldn't Samford be amazing if we could just all connect, which, you know, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't and and it so worked out that I couldn't even believe he came because I didn't even realize that he was experiencing this loss this pain and I put myself in his position I don't I don't know if I'd have gone anywhere ever you know but for him to see that potentially this was going to be some type of release which hopefully it was makes it even more beautiful so that's how it all worked out we were in London and it was just one of those things where everything aligns.

5:55And do you bring the kids with you? Like, how does that work? If you're going to record, how does that, how do you do that? I did have Genesis with me. I think he was pretty young at the time. So, you know, with your little babies, you, you try to keep them with you as much as possible. And, and so it's, it's always, it's always interesting. I mean, sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. It kind of depends on what, what, how long it's going to be, or, you know, sometimes it's harder for them for me to drag them somewhere for three days. And you know what I mean? That's sometimes worse.

6:27Sometimes it's just, it's just needed. So it kind of depends. And now that they're a little bit older, I can kind of gauge it depend on their schedule and also what they want or what they need. So it depends on that as well. So sometimes yes, sometimes no. In that case, I remember I brought Genesis because he was super young. So funny because I really have genuine curiosity around how you do that, right? How you are with your kids and have all this amazing like outpouring of energy and care. And then also are this unbelievable artist. And, and it just occurred to me, like, I genuinely want to know this.

7:04And then I thought like, I wonder if anyone's asking the men, you know, these questions, Like, how did they, you know, probably not. Well, you know, mamas are mamas and that's just, that's just it. It just, even, I mean, even I think the men in our lives will acknowledge that mamas are mamas. My husband said to me the other day, if, if I was doing this by myself, I would be, I know I wouldn't be able to do it. Like, I just know that I wouldn't be able to do it. and and I and I appreciated his honesty but that's what I think that's what we bring and and look there's many men that do take care of their kids by themselves and the whole thing and they organize it and they super figure it out um and I'm sure my husband would figure it out as well but it's true that mamas are mamas and and we do kind of have this superpower of figuring out how to like create this I don't know what we do but we sure do figure it out and I love us for that you too I mean, I could ask you the same question.

8:05You know, what do you, what do you think your, your secret is for being in with how being able to manage as a business, as an artist and as a mother, what's your secret? Do you think? It's, it's weird. I feel like energetically I'm always with them. Like they're always like the, the biggest priority. And so even when I'm doing something else, I feel like, where are they? You know, or when, when they were little, like, is it bedtime? Are they in the bath? And I felt it was hard, you know, it was hard to, especially being when I was doing anything really creative, because I feel like you're such a channel at that point.

8:44And it's really hard to kind of be tethered to the earth and be thinking about school schedules and making snacks. And so that was, that was, that was hard for me. And probably one of the reasons as well, why I leaned more into my business and the kind of nine to five job, which I also really love so much and all of the challenges of that. But I found it particularly difficult to be inhabiting the artist and being a mother, because in a way, when you're an artist, like what it is to be an artist is to be is to have that abandoned in a way. For me, I think that it's, well, it's definitely a schedule.

9:29I'm really, really big on the schedule thing. It's the only way that I actually know how to make anything function. And that feels really good. I think that when I can create the space for whatever it needs, sometimes I need to create the space to actually be with them because I'm noticing that there's things I just need to tune into them with or there's times I need to tune into myself because I'm noticing that there's things that I absolutely have to tune in about and so I find that the schedule helps me to at least try to accomplish as much as I possibly can so that would be my that's my that's my most like realistic thing but I think that I think also the the creating space to dream and creating space to create amongst is is really really important and sometimes I think probably you feel you can feel guilty because you do have to choose yourself you know and sometimes we're taught to feel guilty about choosing ourselves which I'm personally really working hard to break because I think that that's really silly and we should not feel that way you know what I mean and and there's a balance.

10:37You know, of course you only choose yourself. Then of course something's off balance, but putting it into the mix is, is important. So when you're writing music, are you, do you feel like you're sitting down to do it? Are you, are you channeling something is something, something coming through you and how, well, I guess I'll ask you that first. When I'm, when I'm writing music is something coming through me? yes but it depends because sometimes it is so magical that I literally know for a fact that it's otherworldly and it's like another it's it's a gift and it's completely coming out of the thin air and it's magical alchemy and I'm like and I and I feel so I feel so like bowed down to this moment I'm witnessing and a part of.

11:33And then sometimes it's literally like I'm banging my head against the desk and I'm like, why don't I know how to do this? So it's, it's truly, it's just truly both ways. Sometimes it's so mundane and so like mud that I just, I can't find the words. I can't figure out how to make it be, you know what I mean? And sometimes just this beautiful the beautiful the most magical thing i've ever experienced so it really depends and does it come to you in in chords and melodies and in words how does it show up it's so many different ways and that's kind of the fun of it so is it a feeling usually it's a feeling i would say a feeling is definitely the common denominator um it it's something that feels so strong and so clear and so something or so sad or so, you know, or so exciting or whatever the case, it's some feeling.

12:34And then from that feeling, it comes at some point, it might not be at that same point, it might not be right then it might be a year later. I'm like, finally, I wrote that song that I knew was inside somewhere, you know, I find that creativity is so nonlinear, you know, it's just it is when it's all working towards something. You just don't know when it's going to show up. And I think that there's actually something I love about the unknown with that. I don't want to know when it's going to happen. I don't want to know how it's going to happen either, because I think that maybe somehow I would take it for granted, maybe.

13:12Like if I could just sit down tomorrow and just be like, oh, here's the most amazing song I ever wrote today right now. Boom. yeah I mean I wouldn't turn it down and and I and I believe we do have that capacity so I'm not saying we don't or nor that I don't we do and I do but I do find that there's something about the fact that it is a surprise that makes me love it and seek it and search for it and work for it too that's beautiful like because just honoring the process honoring the difficult part that it's like a journey to get somewhere. And I think sometimes we get so stuck around outcomes and, and, and for, for those of us in the world who don't have a creative outlet, right.

13:58We're in, like, I, I think that is applicable to everybody, you know, even though, even people who might not think of themselves as, as creative, that, that openness and, and curiosity and tuned embeddedness or whatever, like become like is the start of something. And, and then to go through the process that can feel trying or when, you know, it's, it's not necessarily easy, but outcomes that are beautiful come out of that. I don't know, for me anyway, that like openness mixed with the mystery of, or the difficult nature of how it's going to end up. Yeah, I think maybe something that feels really relatable for all of us is that if we can just have the faith that it's going to come out, it's going to happen.

14:52When is it going to happen? Might not be able to say how it's going to happen. We can't exactly tell, but it is going to happen. And just by the nature of you continuing to work at it, try, show up for it, it's going to happen. And I think that that really helps me through all the processes because it is, you know, there's there's it's this thing, which is just life. So it's faith. I think so. I think it's I think it's faith that it's going to happen for you. Whatever that thing is, whatever that, if it's a little thing or a big thing, whatever that thing is, as long as you're going to show up for it and keep working at it and trying for it and thinking about it and working through it is going to show up for you.

15:38So I like, I like thinking about it like that. It also is very helpful when you're feeling down.

15:46It's true.

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16:51I'm always so fascinated by songwriters because it seems like the most powerful medium and to be able to pull something down and have it come out, you know, through the body, like that that's your instrument. I just, I don't understand it. And I, And I love music so much, but I just don't get it. And so I always am so curious about how that process works and how something comes in and then it gets executed on paper or into a machine. Like it just blows me away. I feel that exact same way, literally every time. And I'm grateful that I've been able to write many songs and I still feel that same way.

17:36I still feel in shock that it comes out of nowhere. And then, you know, maybe it's just one piece of it. And then you go follow through with that piece a little bit more. And sometimes that thing you thought it was going to be is not even in anymore. And, and just that whole process, it's like clay. It's like, you know, it's just this malleable thing. So I agree. I'm in, I'm in pure fascination of the process, exactly the same way as you. And then, you know, what's so great about you as an artist is like, I feel whatever that thing is like come out and it's like an unretouched, it's like so beautiful and raw in its own way.

18:16I've never, you know, do you know, I don't know, maybe you do auto-tune everything. No, I don't. And I work really hard to really, you know, just to be in that pure space. And I really love flaws. I really love mistakes. I think that mistakes are so beautiful. And when your voice, maybe it cracked or it didn't exactly hit the note precisely, but it was a little under or it slid under and it's technically flat. But if it's with the right intention, it does something to you. And there's something so beautiful about imperfection. And I think that's something that I've really, really learned a lot about.

18:56And I've really fought to keep at the forefront of not only my art, but as a woman. You know what I mean? And really just just just respect that imperfections are just so glorious. There's such beautiful parts of who we are, who we really are in our humanness. And I think sometimes, especially in in such a digital world where things can be actually corrected and fixed and changed and all things, you know, you kind of forget because you're like, wait, am I supposed to be perfect? because everything looks pretty damn perfect everywhere I look. You know, you forget. You sometimes have to remind yourself, like, actually, there's something really cool about the imperfection.

19:41So I actually don't even like the word perfect. That's one of the words that I've excluded from my vocabulary. I don't like the word try. And I don't like the word perfect because I think that it's, I don't think it's a real, it's an unreal word. Do you think that what you like about mistakes is that like it, forces you into vulnerability on some level. I actually think that it connects us a little bit more when we're able to share our mistakes or when you're able to hear something that's not exactly perfect. You might not even, I think a lot of times we're over judging everything anyway. And a lot of times what I might call a mistake to another person, they're like, huh, I don't know what you're talking about.

20:23You know, and I remember my, my, my, my piano teacher, She used to, as she was, I used to study classical music and classical music is a big part of my background in my music. And when I was a kid, I don't know, seven or eight or whatever I was learning these different classical pieces. When you mess up, you know, it's so precise and you have to learn every note and everything. And when I would mess up, I'm like, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. And I would fix it and mess up and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And she was like, never apologize. Never apologize. Just keep going. And it was really hard because I think that my point is a lot of the times where we consider a mistake, so many people are not even thinking about it like that, you know, and we oftentimes I think just judge ourselves so much and in this desire to be perfect, wherever that came from, if we do mess up, we think we have to apologize for it and we don't.

21:19all we got to do is keep going and I really really I really really like that reminder from the piano perspective yeah sometimes when I catch myself beating myself up you know for millions of things that I do right I I think like whose voice is that like why why do I why do I have to drive myself so hard like who who told me this about perfection and It's tough. It's really hard. I think, especially in a capitalistic society and we live in a strong patriarchy. I wonder if, you know, that's, it just permeates no matter what. And I worry for my kids, you know, I worry like, are they, or is that messaging just so strong that it's unavoidable?

22:06It's a tricky one because there's so many messages that we're getting that we're not knowing that we're receiving. Right. And that is so interesting. And it's it's the conversations that I'll have with my kids about certain things like that. Sometimes it's really sticky and it's really tricky because you're trying to figure out how to explain it. But mostly I'm always talking about I, you know, I'll watch TV with them because I love to watch what they're watching because I just want to know, like, what are they getting? Like, what what why do they like it and what is it that they're getting and stuff like that?

22:39And a lot of the times I will find that there's a, you know, as we know now that we're older and aware and, you know, just can look at things with different perspective, that you can see these kind of stereotypes being perpetuated through our visuals, right, and our media and things like that. and you know so I will try to talk about it when I see it just because I feel like at least if they maybe can get tips to the fact that that they are ingesting this then maybe they can know okay I don't have to choose to look at it like that or I don't have to I can see it because I'm seeing it but I'm seeing it eyes wide open and I don't have to say that in order to be like a hero I have to be a strong guy with muscles you know it's like right that's like you know some simple thing where we take away these messages or like this anime.

23:30I go crazy with the anime because I love anime too, but the way that they draw the women in anime, I want to choke myself. I'm like, guys, it's not realistic. Like every woman is not shaped like that. And women's bodies are so beautiful and I love every shape they come in. And I just want to see women in every shape. You know what I mean? and every version of us as women is beautiful, not just one shape. And so I, I, a lot of times I bring it up. I'm like, okay, but it's cool. And I love that. I love the show too. I'm like vibing on the show, but it's like some of those things that start to, and now all of a sudden, every guy is thinking that this is what a beautiful woman looks like.

24:14And it's because they're, you know, 10 years old watching an animal, you know what I mean? It's not, And so it's so interesting. So are, is it, is the messaging so powerful that it kind of will overcome everyone? I think it's, it's definitely going to permeate. And I think it kind of creates things that we all have to figure out, figure out how to work through. But I do think if you're talking about it, and you're bringing it up, and you're thinking about it and sharing just as a family, that it does help to at least, you know, create the conversation. So people are not just blind you know blindly taking in whatever so like how how would i do that what's an example of something you might say like using the anime one as an example yeah my son is obsessed with anime yeah i mean i would say so do you notice that like every woman in anime has like extremely voluptuous breasts do you notice that because i was just watching and i just noticed aren't they are they always like bouncing do you notice this and they'll be like mom like oh okay kind of they're bouncing I'm like and it's cool that they're bouncing because boobs are meant to bounce and any size they are it's beautiful but you know that everybody is not like that and that's okay right and of course mom I know that and it's fine.

25:36I'm like, okay, just checking.

25:42So, but then they'll be like, but look at this girl. See, she's like really, you know, she kind of just has like on, on, you know, overalls and she's, you know, she's kind of seems like just, and I'm like, okay, I see a little diversity. Just know that the world is filled with many different people and women are all kinds of shapes and all kinds of beautiful in all their ways. And so they get it. And even though might be, you know, an uncomfortable moment of conversation for them, I think that stuff really gets in there. I think when, you know, when we point these things out, like, I think they'll, I think it stays with them and they're, they can, they're able to reevaluate hopefully what they're presented with and form their own ideas about beauty and themselves and, and, and everything.

26:28Totally. Totally. And plus when it's kind of fun and you can just be silly, like everything doesn't have to be so serious either. It can kind of just be silly and funny. And I love doing that in a way. It sort of ties back to the thesis of your book in a way, right? Like having the strength of mind to speak your truth and to not censor yourself. And, and I think you get that way from observation. So, right. If we, if we tell our kids early, it's okay to observe, it's okay to observe things about yourself. And then hopefully they'll grow up closer to those sets of truths and then, you know, not have as difficult a time finding their truth.

27:06So I wanted to ask you about the book and, and how you came to like, tell me about the impetus and how it, how it started and why you wanted to write it. Man, right. Writing more myself was, um, what a great title, by the way. Thanks. I love, I love that title. More myself. It's so, it's very inspiring. Thank you. Thank you. And, and, and I think it's just something we're, we're becoming every day, you know, every day you're becoming a little bit more yourself and more myself. And it's definitely, it's a journey and it's a process and it takes a while. It really does. It takes time. And that's what I realized.

27:46The reason why we even talked about writing it was because I felt like I came to a place where I was really able to express the ways that I felt like I was overcome and we all become overcome with these norms, these societal norms that are like forced upon us to our, we've been talking about this and, and it's like, we don't even know that we're taking it in or ingesting it or realizing that we're subscribing to it or whatever the case is. And that's basically what happened to me as well. And until I finally woke up one day and, and, you know, wanted to take my son to school and, and I, you know, just wanted to put on my sweats and my hat and, you know, the everything that every mom takes and puts, brings their kids to school, because it's like, whatever, you're dropping them off.