An Intersectional Approach to Climate Change

0:00Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. Botox on a botulinum toxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

0:30Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.

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2:09Don't hold anything too tightly. Just wish for it, want it, let it come from the intention of real truth for you and then let it go. For me, our soul is like, it's unbound. It's limitless, but we will use words to limit ourselves. When people stop believing that somebody's got your back or Superman's coming, we turn to ourselves and that's where you become empowered. Courageous participation attracts positive things. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow and this is the Goop Podcast, where we bring together visionaries, scientists, healers, artists, and seekers. I'm so grateful that I get to interview these extraordinary thought leaders and share their wisdom with you.

2:58And I love listening to the conversations that are led by my co-host and dear friend, Cleo Wade. Cleo is a beautiful poet and author. I deeply admire her and the way she keeps her heart open to the world. Together, we believe that engaging in open-minded, honest, and sometimes difficult conversations has the power to change our lives. All right, over to Cleo. Leah Thomas is an intersectional environmental educator, writer, and the author of Intersectional Environmentalism, How We Dismantle Systems of Oppression to Protect People and Planet. Today we talk about the relationship between social justice and environmentalism.

3:42Leah breaks down what it means to be an intersectional environmentalist, a term I'd never heard before but love, and why she believes it's critical to address the interconnectedness of social and environmental justice in the fight against climate change. What I admire most about Leah is the grace and warmth she exudes and how she uses this to approach her work. In today's podcast, she explains how to stay optimistic about the future, why we need to acknowledge that we can't save the planet without protecting all of its people, and her advice for how to do less harm on a personal level. Okay, let's get to my conversation with Leah Thomas.

4:27You have such an incredible way about you and the way that you place kind of visuals and language to environmentalism, I think is so refreshing. And it's kind of just this new wave of creating openings to solve this massive problem. And I'd love for you to share, what was your personal journey into environmentalism? Did you grow up in a household where everyone was recycling or you were composting in the backyard? Are you a hippie? Are you a city girl? What's the deal? Yeah, so I'm from St. Louis, Missouri, and my parents were not hippies at all. They're really Afrocentric, I would say. So maybe those values translated into some kind of way.

5:18Like my parents were very like loving African-American culture and history and sharing those sorts of stories. So I'm sure there were nature themes throughout, but I wouldn't say I had an environmental family. But I was always environmentally curious. So running around, like catching toads, letting them free, doing like Midwestern activities. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe later I realized like, oh, yeah, I did have fruit from my grandmother's garden. And both of my grandparents love to garden. My grandmother lives in North St. Louis, not too far from East St. Louis. But she was this kind of Buddhist hippie who had a pond in her backyard with like turtles that she rescued.

6:04So it was an urban outdoor experience. So I guess I always had that perspective of like, yeah, this is just something my family does. And later when I studied environmental science and policy, it was almost laughable because I'm like, yeah, this is what my family does. Like we sew, we use our plastic bags over and over again. So I learned a little bit later, but I've always just liked being outside, I'd say. I think about that a lot growing up in a low-income family in New Orleans where the The recycling or, you know, reusing food, it's like we never threw food out. I remember in my neighborhood, we had the person who always got all of the bottles and the cans and everything to bring them to the recycling for money.

6:49And I think about that a lot and how it informs my desire to or guilt around creating too much waste or having too much waste or not eating all the food or not eating leftovers because you just come from such a family like that. Yeah. And it's really interesting because there's a lot of shame at times for lower income communities. And even growing up, I would never tell people that I went to the thrift store. And this is so embarrassing. But in seventh grade, like the Juicy Couture tracksuit was really in. And I spent weeks going to Goodwill and all these places. And I finally found like a thrifted Juicy Couture tracksuit.

7:32But I didn't want to tell anyone. And it's so different now how, you know, thrifting is cool or reusing and repairing is something that can be cool. But I want people, regardless of their income bracket, to feel empowered. So even if you're reusing or recycling out of necessity, I want people to still have pride in that and know that they're doing something good for the earth. And I think, yeah, that's one of the reasons I got started with, I guess, intersectional environmentalism, because I wanted to show people like you don't have to buy your way into sustainability. So many of our cultures and practices are sustainable and we can build off of that.

8:10Okay, so pause on intersectional environmentalism. You're kind of responsible for coining this term. You've written a book titled this, you founded a nonprofit called this. How does intersectional environmentalism function, work? Yeah, I remember learning about Black feminist theory and intersectional approaches to feminism. And I was like, this is so cool. Like you're saying, I can take all of these parts of my identity, my spirituality, my Blackness, and also my womanhood, and I don't have to separate those things. And it was just such a mind blowing moment when I was in school. And I thought, wow, intersectional approaches to feminism allow women to show up exactly how they are and bring all their parts of their identity and say, like, this diversity makes this movement more beautiful.

9:03And we might all be women, but we have different experiences and we shouldn't ignore those things. So I really just wanted to bring that to environmentalism, which many people have for a very long time. There's really nothing new under the sun. But it felt like there needed to be terminology to explain why a lot of indigenous communities and black and brown communities, low income communities, ecofeminists, whatever it might be, are showing up to this work, not identity blind, but bringing their full selves to it and advocating for their communities in the process. So I thought about that aha moment I had with intersectional feminism and thought, you know, I'm an intersectional environmentalist and this is what it means.

9:46And yeah, it's been such a journey and just beautiful conversations with people who are saying, yeah, I want to show up in this work as my full self, not silence parts of my identity and coalition build with different people. But it's interesting because intersectional theory has been around for such a long time. And sometimes I wonder why it sparks with different people. But I've just heard so many cool stories of people saying, oh, well, I'm religious and I bring that faith based background into my environmental work. Or I'm a part of the LGBTQ plus community and I'm passionate about queer outdoor safety or whatever it might be.

10:23And it's just been beautiful learning from other people why they want to show up in this work with their identity front and center. So it's been beautiful. it's also really interesting because i think that one word and and that has become very trendy so it has a lot of meanings is is empowered and to me i always think about how the root of feeling empowered or taking away all of the messaging that has like become this almost like empowerment through the lens of capitalism is that if you're trying to understand how to feel empowered or what it means to be empowered in any capacity, you have to start with freedom.

11:00What makes you feel the most free? And I think that an intersectional approach, like you said, because it allows for you to voice all parts of who you are and nothing is silent or nothing is cut out or nothing is let out. And we also come from movement spaces over the decades where it was like, okay, women first, but it's got to be white women first, or this person gets the vote, but we didn't make sure that poor people got access to the polls to vote, to be on juries, to do these things. And in that, you're in a movement, but you're not empowered, right? You're empowering a movement that where only specific people are empowered.

11:38And so this idea that we approach environmentalism through an intersectional lens is so critical because we get to be that buzzword. We get to be empowered because we are free as we build, which I think is one of the most important things to sustaining any movement. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, so many different communities have been told that our freedom comes next after someone else's. And especially with Black women and women of color in the history of the United States, we've lent ourself, even Black women at times, to the civil rights movement. And we're told your liberation will come next or in the feminist movement, your liberation will come next.

12:22And I think a lot of people are waking up after all of these different civil rights movements, racial justice movements, women's rights movements, and are saying, no, we don't have to take a backseat. We can coalition build together. And there's this phrase by the Kumbaya River Collective, which is so cool, Black feminist theory where they say, essentially, when Black women are free, all women will be free because it suscitates the destruction of, you know, the patriarchy and racism. And you can take that so many steps further. So it's kind of a backwards approach to ensure the liberation of the most, the people who are closer to privilege instead of working in the reverse, because then all people will be free, which I know sounds like a utopia.

13:12But again, whatever that phrase is, shoot for the moon and you'll land on a star. Yeah, it's so beautiful. I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, autobotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

13:48Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.

14:19So why do you think representation and inclusivity is important or effective in creating solutions for environmental challenges? And I ask this because, you know, I think for civil rights issues where we truly see ourselves, and I think that in the environment, it tends to become this really big and abstract force. And especially in America, we think so nationally, we don't tend to think globally. And so when people think about voting rights and people think about racism, police brutality, all these things where people are centered, it's very obvious that we need inclusivity to create these solutions.

15:02But why do you think we need this for solving this environmental crisis we live in? yeah I think that's so interesting because there's such a separation from our involvement with nature and connection to nature where we view it as something that we're separate from or even like it's separate we think about nature as like wilderness without realizing that our neighborhoods are also ecosystems and we're interacting with the environment each and every day and it isn't always as obvious but when we're talking about okay we need to save the planet, restore the rainforests, while indigenous communities protect over 70 % of the world's biodiversity.

15:47And that includes Afro-indigenous people, indigenous peoples all over the world who are stewards for their land. So it essentially makes not a lot of sense to not include the most impacted communities who are also protecting the majority of the world's biodiversity and our ecosystems, etc. And I think that says a lot. And that also translates to the United States, the people who are the least responsible for environmental pollution, hazards, the climate crisis are the most impacted, however, oftentimes have the solutions to these problems that we're facing. So that's just one, one reason. That statistic is staggering.

16:32Do you find that people like a large company or even a large scientist that would be speaking at TED or something comes in with almost this colonizer approach of trying to reinvent a wheel for protecting our environment and really to kind of fall into this space of those who have tended to this land for hundreds of years makes more sense. Yeah, I mean, even something that I adore, like regenerative organic agriculture. People are hearing that a lot lately, but it's essentially just what indigenous peoples are doing. So planting crops that can coexist together and nourish the soil and essentially suck in carbon from the atmosphere.

17:19And we're seeing this new movement for regenerative organic agriculture, which is really important, but sometimes it's the repackaging of what other people are already doing without acknowledging the science that they've created in their own communities to get us to that point. So that is something that I struggle with because we do need these big documentaries talking about regenerative organic to get people interested, but we need to bring people to the table who have, you know, laid the foundation for what we're doing. Sometimes I feel I struggle with that because I think in America, we live in this like hero mentality.

17:57And if we actually wanted to center community and not our own egos where we wanted to like, feel like we're on the stage talking about the thing instead of in a circle talking or asking questions about the thing from people who have always done it. And I think that like, with these kinds of platforms, it's like, you'll see someone who's like, Oh, I'm going to do this. And it'll become my personal brand and it'll become my business. and it'll be my kind of social currency when you're like, we're talking about the earth. And I feel that across all movements, and I really don't even mean to patronize people who want to create jobs and ideas.

18:33I think we need every type of entryway and on-ramp into this crisis and into problem solving it. But I do think it's interesting to think about how much more quickly and collectively we could move if we didn't want to do this work from a stage and wanted to do this work from a circle. No, it's so true. And I don't know, I feel like everyone can play their own role, but not forgetting that like grassroots community-based organizing is at the heart of it. And I've struggled with this personally in my own career. Like I've been talking about environmental science for a long time and being Black and being a woman in this space.

19:16and then having like an Instagram graphic be the reason why I'm able to start a nonprofit or even write a book and always thinking about, okay, how much of the game do I want to play here while also remembering that community needs to be at the heart and center. And sometimes even when I am in those spaces as a spokesperson on the stage, it's hard to do at this point because then people, sometimes I'll be speaking and it'll be a room of people who don't look like me. And they'll essentially clap when I'm saying, hey, like my people don't have air to breathe. We don't have all these things. And then they just like clap.

19:55And it is kind of a spectacle. And I think there are a lot of activists around the world who are figuring out how to navigate, bringing awareness to their communities, taking up space, but then also making sure there's action behind it. And it can be very difficult. And I bring that up again, not to shame those who find their pathway by being a shepherd, bringing the people to the space where we need to be. And it is so important. But I say that because I think that a lot of activists struggle with that. And I think that even in my space of as a writer whose work is often translated into activist space, I think about that a lot.

20:40Because if you think about Dr. King, he was always just, he went back to the church and you really rarely see a photo of him in his personal life alone. He was always surrounded by people. And I think that's how we kind of allowed these critical works to be a vocation instead of a job is that the community is deeply integrated. in and for me because I really write about and talk about beloved community so much you know to try to match it I always think well how can I do something that's free or how can I do something that is just for the sake of community because I think that to speak on something without the practice that really exemplifies your values and why you think that it's important yeah makes you lose, I think, a little bit of a grip on it as you talk about it in public.

21:36Yeah. And I think even recently I went to Nepal, which was so eyeopening for me because it wasn't like a touristy trip. I was with this like human rights and environmental organization. And they had us like in these remote mountain communities of Nepal. And they were showing us like, hey, hey, like our mountain is falling apart because we're getting increased rain that's supposed to be happening in this month, but now it's happening now. We have landslides, et cetera. And even for me, that was such a game changer of like, okay, I have been focusing on local community, but I can't forget, or even when I speak about communities in the global South, but I had never been there and seeing it up close and personal, just understanding like my community does need to get bigger and include these global voices and make sure that they can share their own stories and that we're not talking about, you know, marginalized communities as just data points and statistics, as we often do sometimes when we're handed a microphone to get other people to understand what's going on.

22:45But it really just reshaped my entire perspective about why it needed to be global and just seeing those things up close and personal and just listening to people talk about their experiences. And then also just being in awe of the joy that they were still finding. It's like, wow, okay, there's something here. And you and I have talked about this before, about this trip. And I think this is a lot because we're overwhelmed and overstimulated. And it's, you know, our communities feel so dire at times in just our own neighborhoods that it is hard to think outside of the country you live in. And I think that especially because America has such a nationalist spirit, it's really hard to think globally.

23:26And we really don't consider how interconnected we are environmentally. And something you noticed was the trash in Nepal that was collected from here, right? Yeah, it's so ridiculous when we think about like a way and what a way is, like when you're throwing something away, where does it go? When your, you know, clothing doesn't get used at the thrift store, where does it go? And then a lot of it is shipped to communities in the global south. And electronic waste or e-waste is one of those really big, I guess, exports, if you can call it from the United States. So, you know, phones, computers, air conditioners, whatever it might be.

24:10And then there are people in Nepal who are trying to sort through it with their hands to get pieces from that e-waste that might be something that they're able to sell to support their families, et cetera, but are being exposed to mercury and all of these really harmful chemicals. And even clothing, clothing waste is another huge thing that the United States ships to other countries and you'll see mountains of clothing. What is your recommendation for clothing? You know, especially I think when you have small kids, we try to donate, But I often wonder, because I found that more and more over the years, your local thrift stores are taking less.

24:50They're just like inundated with clothing. And I think it's because of fast fashion and we need some other sort of marketplace, a really innovative company that takes all of that waste and transforms it into other things. But I would say donate when you can. I think Facebook market is also another good secondary market. I get a lot of stuff on there. And even if you're just giving it away for free, there might be families that need it. Also donating to shelters in particular is also incredibly important, especially for children's clothing and things like that. So something that I do, which I know sometimes like takes a lot of time, but once a month I always go through everything that I have and see what I'm using and what I'm not.

25:33and even being in this space, sometimes getting sent random things like skincare and finding the appropriate places to donate it. So whether it's a shelter, my thrift store, Facebook market, et cetera. I do that every four months. I'd love for you to tell me a little bit about the struggle with green energy feeling or being unethical. You write in your book, but while governments and corporations plan to transition to renewable resources, indigenous communities worldwide are being faced with the dark side of green energy, the lack of regard for their communities, their lack of inclusion within decision-making processes, and the constant threat of violence.

26:15If the global community does not act quickly to address these issues, marginalized people will be harmed by green energy transitions because even renewable resources impact people and planet. I know we spoke earlier about the need for all of these communities to weigh in on solutions, but I'd love for you to touch the green energy part specifically, because I think that even as a policy piece, I know that when I'm voting, I'm considering if and how they believe in green energy and renewable energy. So could you help us understand that even as we're about to enter into a new cycle of picking our politicians?

27:01Yeah, so nuance is hard when it comes to environmentalism because green energy, yes, we need to transition away from fossil fuels that have been so harmful for both people and planet. However, when we know that there's something that's really bad, when something else comes up like green energy, suddenly it can be painted with, oh, this is just all good. But if we don't consider the nuance, a lot of people can be harmed. And in particular, just to summarize it kind of quickly, electric cars, for example, is where a lot of the harm comes from in the green energy space. Like lithium is needed to make electric car batteries.

27:43And the majority of lithium mining happens in something that's called the lithium triangle in Argentina and Chile, etc. So and that's mostly in indigenous lands in these places. So we're seeing a lot of Canadian and US and other countries come into these areas in the lithium triangle. And there are indigenous communities that are there. Lithium mining also requires a tremendous amount of water to be able to like mine it essentially. So it is impacting their water quality, the surrounding indigenous communities. And another thing is also not receiving monetary compensation, like just going into indigenous lands and taking their lithium to power the next generation of electric batteries is not okay.