Becoming a Better Listener

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1:11Don't hold anything too tightly. Just wish for it, want it, let it come from the intention of real truth for you and then let it go. For me, our soul is like it's unbound. It's limitless, but we will use words to limit ourselves. When people stop believing that somebody's got your back or Superman's coming, we turn to ourselves. And that's where you become empowered. Courageous participation attracts positive things. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow, and this is the Goop Podcast, where we bring together visionaries, scientists, healers, artists, and seekers. I'm so grateful that I get to interview these extraordinary thought leaders and share their wisdom with you.

2:00And I love listening to the conversations that are led by my co-host and dear friend, Cleo Wade. Cleo is a beautiful poet and author. I deeply admire her and the way she keeps her heart open to the world. Together, we believe that engaging in open-minded, honest, and sometimes difficult conversations has the power to change our lives. All right, over to Cleo. Today, I'm excited to be talking to my dear friend, Julie Rice. As the co-founder and former CEO of SoulCycle, Julie is an entrepreneur who has an incredible passion for building community and bringing people together. Her latest venture is called Peoplehood, which is a guided group practice where people can share, listen, and exercise their interpersonal relationship muscles.

2:48I love getting to sit down with Julie to learn more about what prompted the idea behind Peoplehood and what she has learned after years of researching how communities form, what brings people together, and why connection is so important to our well-being. Okay, let's get to my chat with Julie Rice.

3:09I'm so excited to have on the pod Julie Rice. Something I noticed that I didn't really have an intention around when I first started doing podcast, but ended up being, I'd say a major theme of everyone I've chosen to interview is they are people who have had not just unlikely paths, but unlikely paths because they couldn't find the box they fit in. And so they really innovated their own box in a way. And I must be really attracted to that in friendship. And I'd say that our relationship, Julie, is definitely very rooted in bonding over ideas that nobody's talking about that seem obvious actually to us a lot of the times and kind of living in invention.

3:58And so I'm really excited to have you be my last episode of the year. It's really, it's a, it's a great finale for moi. Your latest endeavor is peoplehood. And I really want to get into peoplehood. And I want to talk about how you started your entrepreneurial journey, because I think there are so many people out there who have an idea and don't really know where to begin. And so much of where, how ideas get spotlight is when they're already in like scale and fruition. And, and you're like, but how did you get there? Like, what was the, you know, kind of the first step or what did it look like in your path of entrepreneurship when it was a really small idea?

4:43I mean, where the idea it was big, but the execution was small. Do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. And to be honest with you, the idea wasn't even so big. I mean, it was, it was a big idea and it turned out to be a big idea, which is, which is ironic because the idea was really just that people should feel great moving their bodies. They should feel joyful and they should feel empowered. And, you know, the amazing thing about Elizabeth and I is we are sort of entrepreneurs by accident. We just create things that we want to go to. You know, I don't look at the world and say, oh, I see white space around something.

5:19This would be a great way to make money. That's never been something that Elizabeth or I have ever really thought about. It's kind of like, you know, when we started SoulCycle, I had just moved back from LA where I was working in the movie business. Elizabeth had just moved back from Colorado where she was selling real estate. And for us, the commonality was that we had both moved to New York City, where exercise was not lifestyle. In Los Angeles, I went hiking with my friends, I went biking with my friends, I was in a running group, we used to get up at five in the morning and run, you know, on Third Street by by Santa Monica.

5:54And so for me, exercise and the whole motivation for exercising was really just about being with other people. It was a great way to sort of lose yourself, move your body, connect with other people, de-stress your life. And it was joyful and I felt empowered. And at the end of these exercises, I would feel great. And when I came back to New York, there were big box gyms and boot camps and ways to compete with the person next to you and just something that didn't exist. And so, you know, for Elizabeth and I, and she had experienced something very similar to that, in Colorado, where she just spent a lot of her time hiking with her friends.

6:31And so we just felt like there was a hole in the market for something that was about joy through moving your body and connecting with other people and supporting other people. And I think, you know, the main thing that we found at SoulCycle was that in those dark rooms with the music playing and instructors saying inspirational things to you about how you could be more than you thought you were, people, you know, people really self-actualized and they really found the kind of unwavering support that they found was hard, especially in big cities to find. And so that is really, you know, I think that our thesis for entrepreneurship is just create things that you want to see in the world or that you yourself would go to.

7:16Yeah, it's interesting because we've talked about that with Heart Talk. My first book was like that for me. I was like, there's just, there's not the book for the person that felt so busy and so overwhelmed, but just needed a small thing in the day where it didn't, you could read just the page or you could not. And there was something very artful about it being rooted in poetry, even though there was prose and, you know, touching on these things so that you could kind of sit with the idea in a light space before doing a deep dive. Like there were books on shame, but sometimes you just need one kind of idea on shame that can start to unlock that journey for you.

7:58And then you can move forward with other books and other writers and other things. But it felt like a way that people could practice something really easily, especially as I saw our brains start to change online and see that we just kind of wanted this kind of comment section. That's the longest we could kind of give attention our attention span to. It's funny because it's like I obviously, you know, I'm, you know, one of your biggest fans. I live with your books by my bedside and I read those pages every single day to inspire myself, especially as a second time entrepreneur in startup life. But one thing that I think is similar with something like Heart Talk and something like SoulCycle is I used to always say, you know, to me, SoulCycle was like a gateway drug for exercise.

8:43Never my intention to train triathletes or create Olympians. some people went on to become crazy athletes because soul cycle was kind of the trigger that got them started but for me it was really designed for that person who was just getting off their couch and for them to spend 45 minutes on a bike understanding what it felt like to feel good inside of your own body while you were moving was really it and if you were a person that you know this lit a match for you to go and do something super athletic great and if it was just about those 45 minutes, that was great, too. And I think the same thing about your books, it's like they really turn the lights on for people, you know, I really think when you read that page in Heart Talk, it's such an easy way to begin to access deeper thoughts and your own inner life in a way that sometimes is too hard for people to have to wade through chapters and silent retreats and all those kind of things.

9:37You know, it's one thing that's interesting, and I'd love to know what this was like for you, this, that, the jump from working, you know, a kind of nine to five ish job, but something where it was kind of your, the goals were clear because they were set by others. The hours were clear because they were set by others. I remember because as someone who also had a day job before I, you know, could kind of invent in my own field. I, I remember having this light bulb moment that was like, if I can have that much, um, cause I was someone who was like always on time and always like, you know, gave a thousand percent and always was kind of noticeably, you know, the hardest worker in the room kind of thing, or I felt I at least tried to be that.

10:23And I remember thinking if I could have this dedication and discipline towards someone else's goals that I honestly don't even, didn't even care about, like, and I don't even mean that in a rude way. I just, it, I didn't have a, you know, any skin in the game. It wasn't my vision. It wasn't my, my passion. I was like, I should be able to give myself 10 times more of that. And that's how I became a person who would wake up at 6am and write every day. But I remember in the in-between period when I kind of got rid of that job. And then I, you know, I had other kind of projects and things I was hired to do and, and, and whatever.

10:59And I was kind of like, wait, when, cause I didn't know, like, when do you sit down to write a book? Like, what do you, you know, like all of a sudden you're like, okay, I think I have this idea. Now I live with this idea. And how do I create a work structure around it? Especially because what I imagined for you is that you were wanting to do it differently, creating a work environment that was different and not, you know, you can't have something called soul cycle and have a soul crushing workspace. And so how did you kind of, you know, did you have, were your parents, people who you saw work for themselves or, or what was your kind of model for making that jump to I work here to everyone here works for me?

11:43Yeah, totally. Well, first of all, I just want to say, I really do think, you know, to your, to the point of your last question, I actually think the hardest part about becoming an entrepreneur or having a big idea is the quitting of your last job or the paycheck that pays your rent. To me, that is always the scariest part is just, you know, turning off the old life because it's just a huge risk. And I think that once you've done that, you're kind of in it. For me, you know, I grew up in Hollywood, so it was sort of a war of attrition. I mean, you came in first, you left last, you know, there was no, no, there was no answering.

12:20No, you just figured it out. There were a hundred people that wanted your little desk that wouldn't even pay a quarter of your rent. And so, you know, I did not grow up in a culture of kind of, you know, work-life balance or creating an environment that was, you know, loving to work in. But I think that, you know, I always like to say that I do think that, you know, work environments and products that come from entrepreneurs, the DNA of them is a real reflection of their founders. And I think Elizabeth and I started really early on and making choices. We used to say our litmus test was we had four daughters between us.

12:59And we used to always say when we would make a decision about how we wanted our workplace to operate, like, is this the place we would want our girls to go to work? And when you have like a clear sort of North star like that, oh my God, I would never let my daughter work at the place that takes the lesser health insurance or, you know, that is, you know, making somebody feel so badly about an idea that didn't work out or where they feel like they can't contribute or give an idea because it would be, you know, judged or so I think that we always tried to make decisions for both our customers and our employees that, you know, we're really empowering.

13:39And we're, we're loving and most of all really acknowledged people. I think something that I really learned as we grew our company was, you know, you don't people, people, both customers and employees don't necessarily always need to get what they came into the meeting for. You're not always giving somebody a raise or time off, but what people do need, or you're not giving a customer their money back or you are, but I think people need to be heard. I think you need to create an environment where people feel like they matter, where they think their voice is at least taken into consideration. And I think that's something that we were always striving for.

14:14And to be honest with you, as a first-time entrepreneur, as a person that just loves to learn, I mean, that's the whole reason that I continue to create things is I just want to continue to learn about the world and be a part of a collaborative process. You know, I really do value everybody's voice. To me, I never know who the person in the room is that's going to teach me something or have the great idea. And so those are always the environments that I try to create. And also when you create for community experience, don't you feel like because everyone has a different background no matter how similar they could have been but everyone has a different lived experience and that experience is what becomes the wisdom we hope to activate into art into spaces into products so that they actually can be of service because if not I feel like you're kind of like just throwing junk out into the world.

15:15Definitely. And with both SoulCycle and Peoplehood, you know, when people always ask me, you know, who is SoulCycle for? Who is Peoplehood for? And I always have the same answer, which is that it's a human experience. We all need connection. We all need to move through things. We all need time to self-reflect. So I love, you know, as every investor and marketer would like to tell you, you know, we need to narrow down the demographic. Who are we making this for? You know, sadly, all human beings need to be loved and need to matter. And so if you don't take the input of the shared collective experiences of the room when you're designing community like that, you know, my lived experience is very different than your lived experience, which is very different than the other person in the room.

16:00And all of those experiences do need to be taken into consideration as you are, you know, creating for other people. Otherwise, you're just doing it in a vacuum. Yeah. Every time I write something, I always say it, if, and when I'm in the editing process, one of the kind of major boxes I have to tick for the words to be worthy of a page is could my mom and her friends in the kitchen feel themselves in this or see this themselves in this because, you know, we, they, we live such completely different lives. And so when I think about them being in Louisiana, you know, not, not viewing themselves as spiritual people.

16:38You know, I think a lot of the times when you get too caught up in when a marketer or someone says like, you know, who is this? Who is this? Who is this? You, you, you lose the ability to create things for our universal shared experience, which drastically separates us. Do you know, which, and in a very separating world, it's so critical to create any type of community product thing, whatever space that says, okay, I do get that your identity is this and mine might be this. And no matter what we have this in common, because that, that, that it, that always does exist. There's no way that someone, there's a single person on this earth that has truly nothing in common with you.

17:26Well, actually, that's really what's so amazing about these peoplehood rooms. You go into these rooms, you're with 15 other strangers and you sit in a circle and you look around. And of course, because all of our minds go to like judgment first, we go like, oh, I'm going to have nothing in common with that person. That person's too young. That person's too old. And then literally by the time we're done with our first share going around the circle, which is 30 seconds a person, it's all you can do to keep from leaning over to the person next to you and say, oh my goodness, that happened to me too.

17:57Or, you know, yelling out across the circle to somebody, let me tell you about where to find the answer to that. You know, whatever it is, we so quickly recognize ourselves in each other when we give it a moment. And I think that's right. I actually think that that is something that's really missing from this world is, you know, our ability to take a moment to recognize the universality. Is that the correct word that that we all have because, you know, it is so easy to find that. And I agree with you. I love that, whether your mom and her friend in their kitchen in Louisiana can relate to it because it's just literally the best test that you could give something.

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19:17And for our Goop listeners, mention Goop to receive up to$500 off your next meeting or event reservation rental fee. This promotion is valid for all new clients on select spaces booked and actualized prior to December 30th, 2025 and subject to availability. Convene for the moments that move your business. So I want to talk about peoplehood because for anyone who doesn't, I mean, if you follow me, you know that I reference peoplehood a lot. And I love Peoplehood and, and we did, I did an event at Peoplehood with Remember I Love and it's such a beautiful space by the way, but I kind of want to talk about how, because it's so cool to have, you know, to in a world where people, I feel seek to do and do and do and build and build and build to sell and then peace out this idea that you're, you You can have the biggest possible idea that is so, you know, widely admired and beloved, like, like SoulCycle.

20:21And then say, I'm not done with the world, I think is so amazing. And it really actually feels more like an artist. Like, you know, an artist is never going to create their greatest work and then never want to paint again or never want to write again. They just, they just go to work and work with their next idea. but what's really interesting about peoplehood and I'd love for you to talk about the seed of like where the very very first even like kind of you got a seed of a seed of a seed like the tiniest like idea that started to create this um because what I think is interesting that peoplehood I mean yeah peoplehood is that it is it's very different than soul cycle while somehow ending with kind of, I think the same really community centered, you know, like gift to society in a way, do you feel that it's an extension of the ideas around SoulCycle?

21:17I'd love to know where it kind of starts. Definitely. Look, I think that after, you know, after being at SoulCycle for 10 years, what I really saw happening for people that they would go in those dark rooms and they would have these epiphanies and these aha moments, which were so much inspired by being, you know, so supported in those rooms. And they would feel like they wanted to come out and, you know, call their mom or tell someone they were sorry, or, you know, let some make a change in their lives. And yet, people don't really have the skills to do that. I think we all have moments where we understand how we'd like to connect with other people.

22:01And yet, we spend very little time in our lives. And nobody actually teaches us things like how to listen. I mean, everybody thinks they're a good listener. And the truth is, if you ask their friends or their family, most people would say that they don't find other people to be very good listeners. It sounds easy, but it's actually a really hard thing to do. And so I, you know, I think that after observing the fact that, you know, people with the lights would come on and people would go onto the streets and there would, there really were no places for people to, you know, kind of understand how to have these conversations, have the structure to have these conversations.

22:41And then I will also say, you know, Spencer and I went through a period in our marriage when we had our first child and it became very obvious, you know, to us that, you know, we did not know how to communicate with each other. We went from being two people that could do whatever they wanted and still have fabulous date nights and do all the fun things we wanted together to being two people that now had this other person to care for and somebody had to leave work early and somebody had to stay home from the gym in the morning. And we basically got into this conversation pattern of, you know, it didn't matter what we were talking about.

23:17It was just like, whose time is more important? Who is, who is doing more here? And then you're only, you actually live in conflict and sometimes the conflict isn't like piping hot, but you are in a space of conflict at all times. At all times. Exactly. Exactly. Right. So the littlest things, you know, who is, you know, who's, who is doing the dishes, who is picking up dry cleaning, it all becomes on a scoreboard, right? And so somebody recommended a book to us. It was actually called Getting the Love You Want. I love that book. Yeah, they said, you gave it to me. Yeah, they said, read the book.

23:55And if you like it, go and do the workshop. And we did. And we slowly but surely began to change our communication pattern by really just learning to listen to each other, you know, rather than two people coming to a conversation with their own points of view where one person is talking, but the other person is really just forming, you know, the rebuttal in their head, there's no listening going on. You're just thinking, when is my husband going to stop talking so that I can say how it really is, right? But by actually, you know, changing the structure of the way we have dialogue by not being allowed to respond, not being allowed to give your opinion, not you shoulding the other person by only being an active listener, you have no choice but to take in somebody else's point of view.

24:44And listen, this is not intuitive or instinctual. I mean, this is something that you continue to practice over time. It's like any muscle that you build in the gym. It's like, you know, any, any other practice that you build, you run one mile, then you run three miles, then you run five miles. This is one of those things that is, it's constant work, but taking that pause, allowing somebody else to get through their point of view, just, you know, keeping eye contact and letting them know they are being seen. And you understand you do not have to agree. You do not have to want the same thing, but what you need to do is to make time to process somebody else's point of view and get their world.

25:24And I will say that in a 20 year marriage, we have completely changed a communication pattern. And we don't live in conflict anymore, because that's just not what the way that we talk to each other, or the way that we feel. And I think, you know, and I think that by practicing something like peoplehood, where we teach you active listening, where we teach you how to take a pause, where we teach you how to, you know, play it back so that, you know, you can reflect to somebody what you heard them say. If you practice something like that over and over, you begin to watch the world around you change.

25:56First of all, you don't feel so alone, because you have a place to process and you have other people acknowledging your thoughts and that they can see the way that you're feeling. And then as you're having these self reflections in this room, you're also building your empathy and listening and understanding muscles and people that come on a regular basis to peoplehood, you know, whether it's the work that we're doing with the teams and offices or couples that we're working with in couplehood or people just coming into regular peoplehood, they are telling us that like 60 minutes in couplehood and I'm having different conversations with my partner than I have in a year, you know, two team meetings, doing them in the structure of peoplehood.

26:39And all of a sudden we're able to collaborate productively, you know, dinner tables are changing. And I think that is really, you know, that's really something for us to think about because we make time to meet with people all day long in our work lives, you know, obligations. We make all this time to take meetings that are not even important to us. And yet we so seldomly take an hour to say that like, I want to have a meeting, meaning like a deep connection where I actually move something forward with a person that I love or care about, which is so ironic because, you know, if we really looked at our calendars and thought about all the things that we could take out to just substitute with having, you know, an hour with a child or a partner or a teammate, it's pretty powerful.

27:27Well, it's also just this level of real, someone once said that attention and awareness are completely different things. Like you bring, when you bring, you know, often people, we think people just want our attention when actually they, what they're hoping, what they want as far as to bring awareness to what's happening, which is that like, we are lovingly being completely and utterly present in the moment. So it's not just about like, okay, like, you know, my kids being like, mom, mom, mom, I'm pulling on my chair. It's like, I could so easily say like, oh, like she just like, I need to give her some attention right now.