Committing to Yourself (with Lindsay Peoples)

0:03Don't hold anything too tightly. Just wish for it, want it, let it come from the intention of real truth for you and then let it go. For me, our soul is like it's unbound. It's limitless. But we will use words to limit ourselves. When people stop believing that somebody's got your back or Superman's coming, we turn to ourselves. And that's where you become empowered. Courageous participation attracts positive things. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow, and this is the Goop Podcast, where we bring together visionaries, scientists, healers, artists, and seekers. I'm so grateful that I get to interview these extraordinary thought leaders and share their wisdom with you.

0:51And I love listening to the conversations that are led by my co-host and dear friend, Cleo Wade. Cleo is a beautiful poet and author. I deeply admire her and the way she keeps her heart open to the world. Together, we believe that engaging in open-minded, honest, and sometimes difficult conversations has the power to change our lives. All right, over to Cleo. Today I'm chatting with Lindsay Peeples, the current editor-in-chief of The Cut and the former editor-in-chief of Teen Vogue, where she was the youngest person to ever hold the position for a Condé Nast title. Lindsay is a force of nature in the fashion industry, and her unique perspective is invaluable.

1:35I'm so excited for Lindsay to share more about her path with us today. Here we go.

1:43Thank you so much for making the time in the middle of, or I guess the beginning of fashion month, no less. So thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Okay. So you are the editor-in-chief of The Cut, very iconic. And before that, you were the editor-in-chief of Teen Vogue. And And you're the youngest person to have the EIC title in all of Condé Nast, basically? Yeah. That is so crazy. It is weird, right? So I'd love to know a little bit about, and so how old were you when you became the editor-in-chief of Teen Vogue? I believe I was interviewing when I was 26, and then I started right after my birthday, so I was 27.

2:27In today's world where I think so many people at 25 are like, what the heck am I going to do with my life? How do you have a job at basically the top of the food chain? And at the time when this magazine had had this crazy rebirth and had been more really kind of relevant than ever. how what is like what is teenage Lindsay Peoples thinking about doing and like what decisions do you make that get you to that place I think that I'm incredibly relentless almost to the point of it being annoying it's annoying as like a personal trait I find because when I really want to go after something I can't like focus or concentrate on anything else but I think I was always really committed to doing it differently than other people.

3:23And I do just say that because I often felt like, what am I doing? Why am I still in this industry? I don't know how I'm going to, like at graduation, I didn't have a job. Everybody else around me, I remember looking around, everybody throwing their caps. I'm like, this is not cute. I have no, I have no income. Or, you know, when I moved here and was working a bunch of different jobs and I just was like, I'm constantly overlooked it was a really frustrating emotional time I mean I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that fashion is a really vain industry and for a very long time you know and I think to a certain extent obviously depending on where you work it's still true that you know I felt like because I didn't wear certain brands or I didn't look a certain way or whatever it was that I wasn't even getting offered opportunities people weren't even attempting to see if I knew enough information to be of service or to be of help.

4:22Right. And so I think because I was always aware that I wanted to do things differently and that I wasn't trying to fit into the stereotypical, this is what it looks like to be a person in fashion. I didn't feel like I would have a lot of opportunities, but I felt like maybe the right ones will come along. To me, what I find so fascinating about your career is that, you know, where does this practice of the bravery to just do the bold thing. How does it happen at 26 in a space? And then, and then even now to, to take the cut in this, I mean, everything to me that the cut does is so bold, like love it, hate it.

5:00You've gotten the best writers, like with the most incredible perspectives that really make people think differently. And even though it's the fashion arm of New York magazine, it really is one of the more substantive kind of, but it's so specific to you. So I guess how does, where does that come from? I think, I mean, I did have to hit a point where, and it wasn't really one thing that made me hit that point, but I did hit a point a few years ago where I just felt like if I'm going to do this work, I have to do it in the way that I feel like I've been called to do it. I felt like wanting to work at a magazine, it just was too, it was too like God.

5:45Like it was too serendipitous. It was too kismet. Like it wasn't, I had no connections. I had no money. It's just, I, you know, I literally, I just remember I was sitting on my couch and I watched the Hills and I just was like, this seems cool. I want to do that. And I never, honestly, I never thought that I would be able to do it. Even once I interned and worked in these jobs, like I have always been this Lindsay. And that's like the, I think people don't probably understand. Like, I don't think the boldness comes from anywhere. Because you got the job, yeah. Yeah, it's just always been there.

6:20People just may not have seen it. I also just never, I was never actually aspiring to be an editor-in-chief. I think it was more so that I just had a boldness of ideas. And I think even now as an editor, I'm attracted to stories that have a sense of bravery and courage and takes you a little bit to actually get to the heart of it. But I'm not interested in things being salacious or just like polarizing for no reason. Right. I'm interested in the conversations that you have, you know, internally or the things that you're too scared to talk about with your therapist or the things that you Google, but you don't want to talk about with your girlfriends.

6:52Like I'm interested in a lot of different things and I'm genuinely curious about the world and the way in which women and femmes move in it. But I'm also not ever trying to tell people what to do. And I think that when you do this work, a lot of times I think people, I don't know, power makes people act strange. And we live in a culture of influence as like this major currency. And what I really love about your approach to journalism is that you really hold on to the original kind of root of journalism, which is public honesty. And public honesty does tend to be polarizing because like, you know, the best and the worst thing about the truth is it gets instant results.

7:34It just does. Like an honest opinion is going to instantly make someone feel some type of way. Totally. But I think we're just also in a time where I think there are so many things you can read and digest that I'm just not interested in doing work that other people are doing. But I think also when you come at this role or this kind of work in general, there's always going to be a mountain to climb. So I didn't come into it thinking that this would be easy or I think that, you know, it's also just the kind of work that I knew that I wanted to do. I remember a couple seasons ago, I was talking to a person at a dinner and he was like, it just must be exhausting because like every issue, every, every, like every other story, I'm like, this is a big deal.

8:22Or I see that you guys posted this or I see that you guys wrote this. And that's something that other publications definitely would never write or they're too scared to say. But I do feel like that's part of my calling. I don't, it can be tiring a hundred percent, but I don't think that it's like, I'm not thinking like, oh, this is the bold thing to do. I'm just thinking, if I have this responsibility to women, to Black women, to women of color, how do I use this platform responsibly? How do I use this access in a way that's actually supportive and helpful to other people? Because it's never about me.

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9:37And for our Goop listeners, mention Goop to receive up to$500 off your next meeting or event reservation rental fee. This promotion is valid for all new clients on select spaces booked and actualized prior to December 30th, 2025 and subject to availability. Convene, for the moments that move your business. so what were you like as a teenager so first of all I'm going to tell my two best friends from high school that I was talking to you last night that you asked me this because hilarious I consider myself to be like honestly in high school just too much of a people pleaser that's what I remember I was I was like wow I cared so much too much and I cared about really I think a lot of it was trying to constantly reinvent myself of like, who do I feel like I can be?

10:29Who do I want to be? I remembered that I really liked fashion in high school, but there was no specific reference at the time. I just spent a lot of time with my grandmother, like making quilts and pillows at this Black Senior Citizen Center. And so I just loved making and sewing and knitting and crocheting, but it wasn't like, oh, I know this person that works in fashion or anything like that. But I remember being a people pleaser because I just was really scared to say what I wanted. And I remember just not really standing up for myself. And that's a practice that I even, I have to put into practice now.

11:09Like that's something that I, that I struggle with, which I think people would be like, wait, what? But it is because I think being a Black woman, you constantly have to set boundaries and like fine tune the conversations that you are having. And especially in this work, like there really isn't that much room for me to fail. There isn't much room for me to make mistakes and bounce back from it. And so I have to be really strict about what I allow and what I don't allow in the way that people treat me, but also in the way that I let others affect my opinion or worldview. And so that has made me really not a people pleaser.

11:56Yeah. Is there anything that like, do you have a, you know, pep talk you give yourself? Or is there like a kind of, or I have little prayers I do for myself all the time. What are some things you do? I think it's multiple things. I think, you know, the faith of it is so important to me because I think it just reminds me that, that I'm not alone, but I think my faith and family are really important to me because I think the perspective of it has never been, you know, that these people are my family or that this is, you know, if I don't make these people happy or if I don't impress them or anything like that, then that is the end all be all.

12:37I think they also just it took me a really, really long time to have just a confidence in me and the abilities that God has given me and not put my confidence and self-worth in what I was able to accomplish in a role and have my identity be very different than that, which was really a struggle for me because I'm so personally tied to a lot of the work. Like I genuinely really do care that what we're publishing, it matters. And I genuinely do want to do work that really gets to the heart of what people really want to talk to and I think touches them in a different way. And so, but a lot of times it was too tangled of, you know, my identity also being in a role or in a title or anything like that.

13:24And just, I think finding a fortitude within myself, knowing that like what my, my talents, my gifts are not in a role or not at a company there within me. I think that just changes things because then anyone who, you know, I'm, I'm all for constructive criticism. I love when people are like, I didn't like when the cut did this. I'm like, tell me more, tell me what you didn't like. Like I'm all for that. But I think when people have told me that I couldn't do something or try to intimidate me or bully me or whatever it was. Like, I always remind myself, like they didn't give you these gifts and they can't take them away.

13:58So like, it doesn't really, it's not theirs to take. It's just yours. It's so crazy because you are one of the few people I have truly ever met who really has no ego bound up in like like the criticism from the praise, are there certain things that you've just learned over time where you've been like, oh, I know it just feels like, I know, I knew how it made me feel when somebody made me feel like the weight of the world was on my shoulder. So I don't let them do that anymore. Therefore I can't let their praise make me feel that way too. Like, how do you go between, because in your job, I think there's on one day there's praise or in one minute, there's so much praise and in the next minute someone's, you know, has critique.

14:43There's a line of you don't want to be too much in a bubble where you don't receive feedback, right? And you don't hear from people and you don't, I never, you know, I felt like the industry, whether media or fashion, when I started was too closed off. Like it was too, everybody has to be aspirational. And this like figure that you don't really understand, you don't really know. And like speaks in this code language and uses these words and shops here and spends as much money. And it was constantly a guessing game of like, how do you aspire to be this person? But also I think from a magazine tone, talking down to readers and women and being like, because you're not this person or because you don't have this, you can't sit with us kind of thing.

15:21And so I don't ever want to be in this bubble. I want to be, I'm always, you know, telling even the cut stuff, like I want the cut to be approachable. I want it to feel like this community. I want you to feel like you can talk to us. I read people's comments every day. Like I want to know what people say, but do I take everything to heart and take it of, you know, then, oh, I'm going to change our internal direction. No, but I want to be aware and have the knowledge. But I honestly, something that I'm always, that I pray about and talk about a lot is like how I can have discernment, you know, applied knowledge is wisdom.

15:54Like just knowing things is not going to help you how you apply it, how you actually use it and will it is a whole different thing. And so I'm constantly aware of what people are saying or what they like that we do or what they don't like, but it's not necessarily going to shift me one way or the other. It's more so that I'm using this as part of knowledge overall and where I see fit, you know, and where I think about something that, okay, yeah, we do need more coverage in this area or we should have covered that more. We should reach out to that person. I will do that. But I also just think it's that, I don't think, you know, I don't think I'm too good for anything, nor is anyone on this team.

16:32Like I, if, if, if, and when I do still sometimes go to say, I'll help somebody tie their shoe. I don't care. I think that it's also just a, not putting yourself or any of the work too much on a pedestal and, and holding it precious and taking it really seriously. But I don't put it on this pedestal of like, what we do is so much better or what I think is so much better. But it's literally just, I think, more so a passion and a love for it. But also, I think when you care about getting it right, you're not like so worried about coming off like, oh, if I get it wrong, then what do I say? Because I'm always happy to apologize.

17:11I'm never. That's fine with me. I think also what I feel I observe in how you work and live is that your North Star is really community. So all of the wisdom and everything, like you kind of, I find, I feel, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it, because it's always anchored by being in community. You know, the thing about that I think is so modern in your approach is that in online, in the online world or on social media, you do see it and feel it as a platform for two way communication, not just a like single platform for this unidirectional flow of information. You're like, oh yes, like I actually allow for the community here to enhance the experience.

17:59Yeah, I think it's definitely not, it's not how I was trained in fashion or in media, but it was always something that was important to me because I just also think I have done the most exciting work or work that I'm really interested in when I'm not coming at it from a place of trying to tell people how to feel or how to, or this is the thing, or this is the trend. Well, because serving community is different than chasing it. Yeah. Yeah. When people have noted certain pieces are like, oh, this must have been a really hard thing. Like I'm never, I think the traditional way in media has been like, well, this is just journalism and this is a story, but, and that is a hundred percent still true, but I'm always transparent that I have fears and I have hopes, but I'm going to do all of it anyway.

18:49Like I'm not doing this work and, and never feeling scared. I feel scared of stuff all the time, but I also feel like when I think about my family, it's more so that I know the sacrifices that they have given up. I know how hard it's been for other black people in the industry. I know how hard it's been for the people who've come before me. I know how hard it is for the Black girl listening to this, trying to get into fashion. So even when I want to give up and even when I do feel very exhausted by the work or how much effort it takes to constantly engage in community with people to make sure that they feel seen and heard in this and that we're on the right track, I don't feel like I've, that I have the right to give up.

19:36I don't feel like I have the right to even say, you know what I've done enough I'm kind of good on that you think that it's it's a bigger mission and so but it's never easy and the mission widens and extends with the black and fashion council yes how do you find the freaking time to do any of these things but I'd love you to tell us about black and fashion council how it started and then I have more questions on how you find the time yeah I mean my short answer I I had started this thing called women of color and fashion a long time ago and this was when I was like assistant level and we would just meet in my apartment I had like zero dollars so I don't even remember really cooking I feel like I served like cinnamon buns from the corner so I'm sorry to those people now especially because you can throw down in the kitchen.

20:32So that actually like, that makes me sad for those people. I know too soon. But I remember we would like our, our, one of our biggest kind of lunches was that I was called the N word on set and a couple other, the black girls were also called the N word on different sets. And we were all talking and kind of debating about, you know, what we would tolerate and what we wouldn't. And like, just the reality of like meeting a job, needing this connection, needing help, and wanting to speak up, but also not wanting to conform and not wanting to shuck and jive. But the realities of like, if I say something to this person, will they fire me, and then I won't have a job, and I won't have an opportunity.

21:16And so I'd started, I was like assistant level at that time, and we would just meet and talk about those things. And from very early on, I did feel like there's just certain stuff I'm not going to tolerate. And I gotta, I gotta stand up for certain things because if I don't, I think that it's like certain behaviors is going to keep happening. And so by the time I had written what it's like to be Black in fashion, there had just been a ton of different conversations that I'd had with so many Black people in fashion and just a level I think of frustration around you know fashion loving to say that they are super progressive and put a black girl on the cover but then treat you terribly when you actually work there yeah or have no black people on set yeah and I fully you know I think you just have to like I cannot like overstate like how much you really have to love it and be purposed to do it because when I wrote that piece I fully was like I'm never going to work again.

22:19I had convinced it in my head. I had already started to chart out, okay, so here's what other stuff that I want to do. I was not thinking I was even going to get a job because multiple Black people that I had even talked to were like, you're going to get Blacklisted. Like, white people are not going to want to hire you. Everybody thinks you're already too radical. You know, I had like different execs being like telling me, you know, that I was just way too radical and that they were scared of me, even though I'm the least scary person. And so I just was committed enough in that. And then, you know, during the pandemic, obviously there were a lot of conversations around BLM and, you know, Sandra Bland and Rihanna Taylor and George Floyd.

23:03And so we just started to get on a bunch of Zooms with people that I talked to over the years. I had been friends with Sandrine for a while, and we wanted to just kind of actually formulate something that held the brands more accountable than just okay we can donate to this org and we can put up a black square and that's it I feel like you know we don't get paid for any of the work that we do black and fashion council I'm just doing this at night or on the weekends or when we have the free time to do it all of our partnerships anything that we do like we don't charge people to do it we have a showroom that we do with IMG every season for black designers it's completely free for them.

23:39We don't get, we like the, the foundation get some money, but we put it obviously just right back in. So Sandrine and I personally aren't getting paid at all. And it's really important to me just, okay, I have this access platform in the industry. How can I help other people? I think people love to talk about gratitude and I'm a huge gratitude journal person, but I think that when you are not living your life in service to other people, to a certain extent, you were just bound to be really selfish and egotistical. So I think it just helps level you out when you spend time with people and talk to people and help people.

24:14And I think that's also how you, you know, the universal, you, you know, how we lose touch with purpose, with like the pulse that like we try to, you know, I always think about how I, you know, my, my own work, like my favorite things to do, or my, are you okay booth or to sit and go and be at my book tours because I, I never, this idea that we are building in order to isolate from those we serve is a God complex. No. Yeah. I mean, we just, I think you have to be in touch with what is actually happening. And also just a level of empathy is really, I think important just as a, as a human being.

24:56But I also just think when you have any kind of power you have to understand actually how it feels but I do think the the black and fashion council whatever we do it just it felt like my calling as a whole deserved an answer like it I could just kind of let the phone keep ringing and I I'm a pros and cons list girly so I made many lists over the years of like here's why other people should start this or here's why I shouldn't do it. I love doing those. But just came a time where I felt like, okay, you've been blessed with what you have. And so you need to use it. Like you can't ask for more and not use what you have to the best of your ability.

25:38And so I felt like I did for a long time feel like there's people more senior, there's people who make way more money than me. There's people who have more connections, like they should do this kind of work. And they didn't. And so I felt like you got to answer this call like this is what it is what are some of the ways that you've noticed your industry change and evolve for in your pros and cons girly list like you know what are some of that what are some of the ways that you're noticing impact what does like sustainable change in fashion look like or are we in in it sustainable change in fashion to me really feels like that you have to be really uninterested in doing the lazy thing like I I think that there's a lot of there's such an easy surface level way to go about a profile with a celebrity or just a simple a simple essay on a movie or anything like that and I and I I think that if you're just not interested in doing the lazy thing like that is the way forward I also think that the industry is constantly changing so much that you have to find a way to you know be comfortable with that change but also go with your gut of where you actually feel like things are going I remember a couple years ago when everybody was like pivot to video and I was like if I have to hear this one more time I'm gonna lose my mind and I think a lot of people did that and some people did successfully and a lot of magazines really didn't and and kind of suffered in that and so I think that it also for me was like I'm not trying to be you like a different medium completely no I'm not trying to be good at 800 things I was listening to a podcast the other day and he was talking about stability through change.

27:36And I think that was really insightful because there is always so much. I mean, I think there's so much in the news every day about media and magazines and all of that, but ultimately what we're doing at the cut is my lane and that's what I got to be concerned about. I once heard someone define regret as a decision you made while you're still learning. And I, and I found that to be like one of the most kind of self-forgiving ways to think about our paths, our journeys. Are there any things you would have done differently or decisions you would have made differently throughout your life or career thus far, or in your current gratitude, do you just respect the road that got you there?

28:19I think, you know, I love a good rumination on something that I shouldn't have done. That's the wonders of therapy. But I don't know. I think that I everything that I've gone through has it has always felt like a mountain, but I feel like I had to go through it. Even the painful things, I think it's helped me bend and not break. I think it's really helped me in a way that I had to learn for myself. And if someone would have tried to tell me or show me, I wouldn't have believed them. But I also just think they, I felt like, especially because fashion is so rooted in a lot of things being so vain that if my confidence had been in a title or role or in how I looked or anything like that, it just would have been so fleeting.

29:11and my confidence had to be instilled in me committing to myself and me doing the things that I said I was going to do and me having discipline with myself about like you said you were going to go after this you got to do it even if it's really hard like you said you would do this kind of story even if it freaked you out and this was the only thing that you ever got to do like I remember when I wrote Black in Fashion I was like okay the deal is if you never get to write anything again this is it you got to say what you need to say and I think all of so many things have been have just like terrified me even to this day stories I'm like oh god like I don't know how people are gonna take this but I've only had that sense of confidence because even when it's been stuff that's been really hard that I may be like oh I wish I would have handled that a little differently it's just instilled something in me because I've constantly been committed to showing up for Lindsay in a way that I just didn't do that before.