Emma Grede on Unapologetic Ambition

24:16Like you are so magnetic. You're so brilliant. You're so articulate. And I think having that it factor, of course, is like key when you're, especially when you're in a relationship business and you're an agency work and a connector and all of those things. But there's also this incredible grit and perseverance. And because, I mean, I can't imagine it's been easy at every turn, like running all these businesses and starting all these businesses, right? And you just like get up and you do it. And you have really strong leadership values, which I also want to get into in a minute. but what happened at home?

24:53Like how were you raised in order to be this person? And are your sisters as industrious as you are as well? They're industrious. You know, it's so interesting because when you're a mom and you know this, you reflect so much on your upbringing, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I had a wonderful family. You know, I come from a proper East London family where the family was everything. And when, you know, my mum had three kids under the age of five by the time she was 28. So that's a, I could never do that. That's the first thing to say. It was a pressure cooker. My dad left when we were all really young and my mum was in a situation where she was, you know, I feel like we were all kind of forged in fire, right?

25:45There was, it was tough. We didn't have any money. she just had to leave and go and work and I always laugh like our family dynamic is like she's the dad I'm the mom and we have three kids together and so I'm the first I'm the eldest and I love my sisters they are amazing like we talk every single day but it was definitely difficult and I think my mom had a lot of pressure on her and she did what was you know her her best she did what she could and I think we were coming up in a time where it wasn't like about working on yourself and figuring out your demons. It was like, just get through the day, right?

26:21Get through the day, feed these kids, keep the lights on. And she did what she knew how to do, which was to just graft. What she did was gave all of us like a real sense of self. She really taught me that, you know, and I do say this all the time because it's one of the most fundamental parts of my upbringing. She was like, Emma, you are not better than anybody else, but nor is anyone better than you. And so when I got into, you know, what it was that I wanted to do when I started going out in the world and figuring that out, I really believed that. I was like, nobody's better than me. My mum told me that, that must be absolutely true.

26:56And so it gave me this foundation to think that I could do anything. She was like, so long as you work really hard and you put everything in and you're yourself. And that was the thing that was always playing to me, like, don't change, I'm good enough. And so I just was raised with this idea of like, I'm totally good. I don't need to change anything about myself. I am a smart girl and I've got lots of skills and I'm just going to work my ass off. And so that was what was, that was what was in me. And did your dad play a role or did he really leave? No, not at all. He was out. I didn't meet my dad until much later in my life and he is a part of my life now, but he wasn't a part of my childhood.

27:35And you know, there's so many things. I honestly don't think I had daddy issues. You know, I'm so lucky. I've never had a bad boyfriend. I have such a good, I just, that wasn't the same for all of my sisters. They'll tell you that another time. But I had very, like, I think I had a very high idea of myself and I've got a good radar. So I just was really lucky. I found like a lot of different boyfriends, but one after the other, after the other was really good. Nice people. Always like just really nice men around me and I married incredibly well. I've just made those good decisions, you know. So you don't think that it caused you, I'm sure it caused some kind of trauma, but probably not.

28:13Yeah, I had other trauma. You know, I don't think that the father thing was so traumatic for me. I think that being the eldest and being a carer for kids when you are very young does a lot of things to a people, right, to a person. And, you know, I know that I have, you know, that inner child part of me, that's hard to access. You know, I'm not a good player. I'm not good at being like, you know, that's just not me. I've always been a serious girl. That's just who I am. I find it very difficult to be playful and silly. And that side of me is difficult to access because that's just not what I know.

28:52I think because when you say that, it feels like, you know, that requires like a vulnerability. And I think if you're doing and you're protecting your sisters and you're in doing mode and you have to have control of the house because you're sort of in charge of everybody, it must be hard to let go of that control. A hundred percent. And I am, you know, someone who has wanted very purposefully to feel and put forward the idea that I was in control because I never wanted to let my mum down. We were not going to be those people in East London that looked like what was going on was going on. My mum was like, you better brush your hair.

29:29You better pull your shit together and be, you know, like be those people. And so I, yeah, it just was never an option for me. It was never an option to fall apart. It was just like, pull it together. There's a lot of people that have got it much worse than you and figure it out. Right. And yet there is that part. I certainly have this where, because I can relate to a lot of what you're saying. Like there is that soft part that does sometimes need to come out, right? And to like be tended to as well. And that's what I think is so interesting about like being a firstborn daughter, you know, like parlaying it into life's work.

30:06And, you know, I have so many of the same like strains running through. Like I have a couple of friends who were in that position of sort of having to raise their siblings and it made them, I would say like have some trepidation around having their own kids and like kind of going back to, did you have that at all? Definitely. I never wanted kids. Like I, if you'd have asked me when I was 20, up until the point I I met Jens. And honestly, even when I met him, like I remember when he proposed to me, I was so excited until he started talking to me about marriage. I was like, well, I really just wanted to get engaged.

30:45I don't know about this whole marriage palaba, you know, and I, at the time, his brother was getting married the year later and I was like, thank God, I can like, I was like, let's not, you know, like rain on their parade. Let's do it the year after. And so I managed to like push this wedding off and it wasn't about the wedding. It was like, what comes out? Am I going to have to have kids and start a family and do that whole thing. Like I'm so not there. And then like, honestly, it was, I don't know what happened to me. I got married and I was like, oh, I need a baby. Like immediately I was like, let's just like get off of birth control and go for this, like start life and buy a house.

31:16And I don't know what happened to me because I'd never envisaged that very traditional setup in my life. I didn't want that to happen to me. And all of a sudden it just came out of nowhere. So it was just, I don't know, waiting for the right guy. I think too, something happens in marriage where I feel like you're creating like a special, this entity between the couple. And it's like you kind of bear fruit to this bubble that encapsulates you. And then, you know, so to me it makes total sense. So true. A baby would come next. So how old were you when you had your first one? 31. I was 31 when I had Apple too.

31:56You were? It was a great time because I felt like, and this is not unimportant for my career. I, you know, I've always worked. I was, I dropped out of school. So I, you know, I was like an early starter in the workplace. I dropped out of high school. So I was, you know, I went to, in England, we call it college, but it was like, I dropped out of the London College fashion. I was like 16 going on 17. And, you know, I just needed money. I'd left home and I couldn't make ends meet. I couldn't get the train fares together. And so I decided like that wasn't for me and that I'd go straight into work experience.

32:28And I'd done a work experience where I learned a lot and I was like, I'm just going to stay on that train. So I would work four days a week in a store and then the other three days a week I would do my work experience. And for me, that was such an important part of my life because I just, I was learning so much in that time and I was building. I think that those years were just really key to me to build up what it was that I needed to do and get away from where I was from. Right. I mean, I imagine it must be so gratifying to, I don't know, like it's, it's like the American dream. You moved here, you know, you've had all this incredible success and like, are there ever moments where you think back to like this young girl in East London and think like, like your house then compared to now?

33:17Every day. Are you just like... Every day. You know, it's so funny. There's this brilliant skit, like I'm obsessed with comedy. And Chris Rock used to say, you know, like he keeps a bag packed in his own house, like, cause he's expecting someone to knock on the door and be like, get, get out of here. This is not your life. And that's how I feel. You know, it's like, I wake up every day and I have this beautiful pitch ceiling in my bedroom. And I'm like, this is insane. Like, what ceiling is this? Like, imagine that's your ceiling in your bedroom. You know, I know I I genuinely feel like that because I am a person who, you know, I stop to smell the roses, like quite literally.

33:52I'll walk past a flower and I'll be like, imagine that flower is there and it can smell so good and look so beautiful. And I do feel grateful all the time. It doesn't, I don't feel far away from that little girl in Plasto. It's still like very close. And do you cultivate that gratitude or is it just innate? No, I cultivate it. I, you know, I'm like the Oprah generation. When I used to come home, Oprah was on the TV and she was going on about the gratitude. And I was like, what do I have to be grateful for? You've seen this house that I live in. It's awful. But I learned from a young age and it just became a practice.

34:30And I really, you know, before I understood the connections between, you know, how that literally changes your neural pathways, I knew that writing a diary and writing things down was a way of me like just therapizing right it was just this way of me being able not to be like everything else that was around me which was angry and bitter and blaming and I understood that the more I could get down on paper the more I could get out of myself the better I would be and I feel like that just became a practice for me from about the age of 17 I started I don't know that I haven't kept a diary since I was 17.

35:07You still do it? Still do now. I still carry my journal every single day and I'll write anything that I can in it. And I, and I really, I really love it. Like it's very helpful to me. I mean, it's brilliant because I don't, I think it like moves stuff out of yourself and like onto a page. And I used to, and then someone read my diary and then I just stopped and I never did it again. Someone read your diary close to you or just like a close to me. Yeah. Oh, what a shit bag. I know. Yeah, that's not nice. I mean, if anyone reads my diary, don't tell me. I know. Like, just don't. I know. And then I was like, oh man, what if I pick it back up and then like, you know, the tabloids, like I kept picturing.

35:49Yeah, that's what I would be worried about. Like someone scrummaging through your like trash, do you know what I mean? I'm never going to write a diary. It is actually so revealing. I recently like after the fires in LA, I digitized all of my photos and I found a bunch of old diaries and like the stuff that I would write, I'm like, no one can ever see this. This can never go anywhere. It's unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the beautiful thing though is because you can go back in time and see kind of where you were and how you thought about the world. and I still have a couple, but I stopped doing it ages ago.

36:22I don't, maybe I'll pick it back up. Maybe you'll pick it back up. I know. I feel like it's good for you. I agree. I think I should. But every time I do, I get really self-conscious. You do? Yeah. It is something that makes you self-conscious, but I feel like for me in the best way, because if I feel like I've got three days where I'm writing about the same thing, I'm like, Emma, you need to move off of that. You know, I love Dan von Fustenberg. She's a dear friend of mine. And she says, you know, Emma, the most important relationship you'll ever have is the relationship you have with yourself.

36:53She's right. She's so right. And that, for me, like, is the most honest relationship. Because I can talk myself out of anything in my head. I'm a Libra, so I'll be like. And I feel like that is the, right? It's like, it's the record. It's there. It's in black and white. And I'm like, am I still thinking about this three days? Don't come back to this book I'm writing there, like, tomorrow. like deal with it. So it's like this little record that pushes me over the edge. That's interesting. So whenever you open it, do you sort of go back over? I don't really. And that was what was so hard reading these, like, I mean, they were like 17 and 19 year old diaries of mine with the big bubble writing.

37:33I was like, did I write like that? What's wrong with me? But, you know, I don't, but I just, I know if it's, it's almost like, like I know it's there. Like there's something that's like, it's speaking to me and saying, you're still procrastinating on that thing. Like move on, go, move on. No, I think that's fair enough. I think that is kind of like being a best friend to yourself in a way, right? Like coaching yourself past something.

38:08I want to talk to you about your leadership style. I saw you, was it on social or something you were talking about? Where were you giving an interview about making everybody go back into the office? Oh, Lord. That was amazing. That was so good. Here we go. It was so good. You can of worms, what were you doing to me? I know, that was not a popular opinion. Oh, really? Well, let's be honest. I thought it was brilliant. It was kind of 50-50. And I knew it when I put it out there. But I do think it's really, first of all, I feel like we need to be able to have difficult conversations, right? And we need to be able to have conversations where we disagree with one another.

38:45I've never, since coming to America, I don't understand, like, you know, some of my friends will be like, I'm not friends with him. He's a Republican. I'm like, you're not friends with a Republican? That's so random. Like, I love the Republicans. What are you talking about? So it just makes no sense to me. So to me, the beauty of social is this ability to get information, share information, to hear what people are thinking. And I put that out there because it's a position that I hold strongly. I need people in the office but not just that I feel like we've lost like that work has become like somehow this villain to a certain group of people it's like do you know what happened to me at work the best things like the single best things I met all of my best friends that I go on a girls trip with every single year I met them at work my husband I met him at work I kissed him in the elevator for the first time you know it's like nowadays I don't know about that it's like Yeah, I mean, we didn't even know what HR was back then.

39:39You know, it was just a different time. But not only that, it's like the biggest successes, the biggest failures, the biggest learnings that I've had, they all happened in those workplaces. The best nights out that I ever had, they happened after like a random Wednesday in the office when you like maybe want a bit of business. And so this idea that somehow work is only a drag, it's only a negative, it's only taking away from you. I'm like, on what planet, people? And I get it. We don't all do work that is really fulfilling. But guess what? Work is not even just about the work. It's about the people.

40:11It's about the relationships. It's about the like stuff that happens in the kitchen. So I just, what I was trying to say is that, like, can we just have a different way of looking at things? And by the way, yes, I do need you in the office. I need you there to do the work. Guess what? Because I'm paying you to be there for four days. If you'd have said to me at 19 years of age, you know what? Emma, we are going to pay you for five days a week and you just need to come in for four. I would have been like, sign me up. Are you crazy? Like you mean I could go to that Pilates class, be a bit late, shake in on the thing?

40:47Because we know what everyone does. And that's cool because the way that we work now is very, very different. The expectation is different. I don't, my expectation is that nobody misses anything that's deeply important to them. But it's, it's like we have this contract, right? I'm going to pay you. You're going to do a job. And in return, there's an element of freedom. There's an element of trust between us. And I expect a result. Yeah. And that's that. Like, I don't know that it's - I think it's a really, I mean, look, it's something that I wrestle with here. Did you see Jamie Dimon? He had a great, the head of J.P.

41:20Morgan, he had an amazing rant about it too, where he was just furious that he would be on a Zoom and he could see like people on their phone and the Zoom or people off on the Zoom. Yeah. In the black screen. Yeah. No camera off. It's hard. I mean, I think in California, we still are the least back to the office work culture of all the states. Yeah. Not in my office. I know. No, I just, I, you know, I don't want to sit on Zoom. That's not the type of work that I do. If I wanted to have that type of job, quite frankly, I wouldn't work in the apparel business. I'm an in-person, in real life, in real time.

41:54I don't want to even send emails. You know, I still go to people's desks. I'm like, hi! And people are like, oh, Lord, is she in real life coming to you? I'm like, don't worry, it's not a bad thing. I just want to have a chat and I don't want to send 25 emails. And is it all teams you expect in, like even accountants, data science, everything? Yes, customer service, all the things that everyone wants to outsource. No, it's, you know, because here's the thing. Again, I go back to this idea of a contract. We're at a time right now where, you know, we are talking about AI taking so many jobs off the table, right?

42:26Like I honestly could walk into the office and perhaps like reduce the workforce by 200 people tomorrow. I'm not doing that because I don't understand where, like we haven't caught up with ourselves, right? It's like, yes, AI is going to create a lot of jobs. So right now, the people that would be losing their roles are not walking into these AI-ified jobs right now. So my viewpoint is that I'm going to keep people in work and my expectation is that you will show up. Yeah. It's not that revolutionary. I don't think it is, really. No, it's not. I don't think it is. It's not popular. it's not popular in California but I think this is the way the world is moving and the great thing is the unemployment rate is at an all-time low so if you don't like it I always say to people like this is my expectation there's lots of places where you can come in two days a week or you can take the Monday and Friday off that's totally cool you should go there right I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head right but then you see like the results that your companies are having and it's like a tough consumer market these days, you know, and there's so much competition and you guys are just crushing it.

43:36So. Well, and also what I do is fast. Yeah. You know, I saw Sam Altman did a really good quote a couple of days ago and he said, I'm yet to meet a successful person that moves slow. Like me too. Like I'm fast, you know, it's like, that's why I don't send a lot of emails. That's why I don't like sitting on Zooms. That's why I don't do one hour meetings because like I need to go quick, quick, quick. And you hire people around you that they understand your shorthand and they can take your ideas and sort of execute quickly. Yeah. Like I hire real experts because, you know, at the end of the day, I'm a bit of a generalist, right?

44:10I do like a few things kind of well, but when I think about what it is that I'm uniquely good at, I'm very good at focusing, right? I know how to focus on what matters. I know how to get better at the things that matter. And I'm very good at tuning out everybody else's opinions. That's amazing. And on those three things, that's what I do. So those are the important things. I don't do lots and lots and lots and lots of things. I do very, very few things well. And what about, as an example, the skims marketing and like knowing to pull in, you know, whatever's like the culturally relevant thing in the second.

44:56Like, do you think of that? No, I wish I could tell you. You know, it's so funny. I get so much credit out there and it's really, really funny. I think this comes back to, you know, hiring incredible people. But I think that some like between Jens and Kim, I'm lucky enough to be on that group chat. I'm like, whoa, that's such a good idea. It really is. It's the two of them. They're amazing. They're like obsessed with popular culture and they're just in it. And again, it's quick, right? If you're going to hire the two girls from White Lotus, like you need them in that moment, just as the, you know, finale is coming up and we're all obsessed.

45:29And we've been very, very good at that. But then, you know, I think the discipline comes from making those things habits, right? You expect that from Skims and having that type of cultural relevance never happens by accident. It happens because it's a muscle and we practice it. And I think like anything that you practice. Like I am like a default happy girl. I wake up, I'm like a seven, you know, it's like, that's who I am. But it's like, I've practiced being that way because I don't enjoy the other side of my personality on the other side of the Libra. I can go down, down. And so it's something that I try to do.

46:02I have a habit of doing things that I know keep me well and make me happy. And it's the same thing in businesses. You have to create the culture for something to become a habit within that business. And we happen to be pretty good at that. That's so brilliant and so smart. Yeah. I mean, I think it's funny that idea of sort of like operationalizing instinct or ideas, like that's really, really resonant. And you can do that. You can operationalize excellence, like being obsessed with something, right? We're obsessed with our customer. We've operationalized innovation. We've said, if that's the most important thing, having like the fabric, the thing, these moments that people go like, ah, and then lose their minds over.

46:50Like, how do you make sure that those come in? They're not accidents. You have to work on them. You have to create the conditions for them to happen. You have to create the space in people's workloads for those things to become part of the fabric of what you do. And so I think that that's part of our culture.

47:21Can I ask you about off-season for a minute? Yes, please. So it looks so good. It's like... I'm really proud of the product, I have to tell you. I mean, I haven't seen it in person, but... Oh, I'll send you one. Oh my gosh. You sporty girl, JP. I'm like, you are now. Okay, I'll put it on. Put it on. But it looks really high quality. So is it a much different price point? It is. It's a really different price point from everything that's out there. And, you know, the whole kind of like sports merch market, it's a bunch of horrible stuff. Like, if I sent you something from like, I don't know, wherever people get their stuff, you would be like, no, thank you.

47:59You wouldn't put it on and feel good. There's no fit. There's no fabrication. There's nothing that feels remotely like luxurious or premium. And so what we wanted to do was really create a premium experience, something like a puffer jacket that you would want to wear, a top that you would put on with a pair of jeans and feel cute. And now we're seeing sports being so much more part of everyday life that it just felt like the time was right and the culture was right and women's sports is in the right place. And I am the person who is really the one saying, okay, like how do you make an amazing puffer?

48:32Like what should a puffer do? It should keep you warm. It should look really cool. It should it sit just right. If it's oversized, it needs to be that. And so it's about obsessing over every little detail. And then of course, we've been lucky enough to be in partnership with the NFL. So we're making for these like, you know, incredible teams with these amazing legacies and finding the little thing that makes that jacket and that team, you know, those fans like really set up and stand out. And how did you get them to partner with you? You know, it was, I have to say, Christine Juszczyk, who's my partner, she is the wife of Kyle Juszczyk, who's a player on the 49ers.

49:06I'm learning a lot, let me tell you. I thought football was soccer up until, you know, a few months ago. I'm like being corrected every day. So she had been creating outfits for herself every single game, like literally taught herself to sew on YouTube. You're kidding. No, she sent me like 25 DMs. I cannot tell you. And at some point, you know, you don't get the DMs of people you don't follow. And I didn't know who Kristen was. She has a lot of followers, super popular girl. But I think, I don't know, maybe like nine or 10 people got in touch with me saying, do you know, Kristin Juszczyk, you have to speak to this girl.

49:39And I was like, who is this chick? I have no idea. I took a call with her and I fell in love. You know, when she just reminded me of like a 27 year old me, she was like, I'm going to do this company and it's going to be successful. And she had a brilliant idea. And I thought, wow, there's a huge gap in the market. I know how to make incredible products. You understand And, you know, this business, the NFL, and we're in a time where people, they want to feel nostalgic. They want to go back to this familiarity. And, you know, football is about as American as it gets. It's about as family orientated as it gets.

50:15And so I'm, you know, the NFL are an amazing organization and we got a license from them. Call someone from the NFL and go back to your old partnership? Go back to the old licensing ever and be like, let's do a deal, guys. They'd already established like the beginnings of a partnership. And so it was one of those ones where we had to go in and say, hey, we're starting a brand. And I was really lucky. I know Michael Rubin, who started Fanatics. And so, you know, he's got the whole sports licensing business locked up. And I was like, hey, Michael, want a partner? He's like, what are you talking about?

50:46I was like, no, seriously, do you want a partner? And Michael is like the best of the best of the best, as it turns out to, you know, like a solid person. And, you know, I think I had one meeting with Michael, I think six months later, what he'd said in that meeting was exactly what we ended up doing. He was like, we'll do this, we'll do this, we'll do this. And I was like, thank you. That's incredible. Best, most brilliant person. That's amazing. Yeah. Sometimes it is about like the right person, right? Getting to the right person. Yeah. I was wondering if you had like certain tenants that you live by in terms of, you know, because I feel so underwater with just goop.

51:24And my kids already went to college. Like you have kids in the house. You know, I feel like I have no time. And, you know, Goop obviously has like a bunch of different verticals. Of course. And so those each require attention. And now there's food and all this other stuff. But like, is there something that you are very clear about, like in terms of how you approach leading teams, how you get the best out of people? Like, do you have certain rules or certain practices or certain like, you know, quotes or like, what are your leadership values? How would you articulate them? I think I'm pretty clear in my philosophies.

52:06And I would like to say that, you know, I have I've learned a lot along the way. But I also think that when you, you know, I'm 42. It wasn't that long ago that I was someone's employee. and so I took a lot from that time of knowing how you didn't want to feel and I think when you get down to the crux of it what do people really want they want agency over their lives right they want to for the most part people want to come to work they want to do a great job they really do they want to feel good about what it is that they do and what they're part of and they want to feel that they're part of a bigger picture, that what they do adds to the whole thing.

52:48And as a leader, I think it's my job to articulate what the possibilities are for you to feel great about what it is that you do. So having a mission, having a purpose, having a vision that is something that is so clearly articulated that every single person, it doesn't matter if you work on the front desk or wherever you're in the C-suite in the executive leadership team, you know exactly what we're here to do. Not making denim, right? We're here to make women feel great about themselves. And then there are all of these different ways that you can add to that mission. And then you got to get out of people's way.

53:26Like, you know, I have so many different jobs. I have four children. I don't have time to micromanage. Like I really don't. And so people that can work well with me are the ones that take an enormous amount of accountability, but I will also get out of their way because I've already told you, like, here's the vision and here's the goal. And I only care about winning. Like literally, like I learned very early on in my career, this idea of like, what is an enterprise mentality? We are all here. We're not a family. That's not what we are. We're not here to be mates and we might be mates, but that's not what we're here for.

54:01The purpose of the reason that we're all here is to drive this thing forward. Now, can you make money from it? Yes, I hope so. Can I make money from it? Like, we better. Can our shareholders make money? Absolutely. If we're all on the same page about that, then we can all go forward. But I kind of don't make any mistakes about trying to pretend about why we're here. I'm very, very, very clear. Like, no one is ever like, I wonder what Emma's thinking. So I've already told you. I'm not waiting for that feedback moment, for the assessment. Where's the sit down? I'm like, come over here. Like this thing just didn't work for me.

54:35So my thing is that - So you give feedback like that in the moment. Oh yeah. Like immediately because I can't keep in. That's more about me and who I am. But I think that people appreciate that because they want to know where they stand. Nobody wants to go home being like, did I say the wrong thing? Did I make a misstep? I'm like, yeah, you made a misstep and here's how you could do it better next time. And by the way, there was this thing that I did before and these are the steps that I took to make it better. So I'm very literal about what it is that I need and what my expectations are. But I think that that helps set everybody up for success.

55:09And then it is really about this craziness that I have about hiring, because there's nothing I love more than surrounding myself with brilliant people. And I think that in the beginning of an entrepreneurial journey, you can get a little bit worried about, is this person going to show me up? Are they so much better than me? and I learned really early on, I was like, the better the people are around me, the better I look. And so I've really made it part of my mission to just get amazing people. What are your hiring rules? You know, the first thing is I see a lot of people. So I will meet people even when I'm not hiring, just purely speculatively.

55:49You're out, you're in the market, like I'm taking a meeting. If you're a good person and I've heard great things about you, I'm just going to take that meeting. I also, I kissed a lot of frogs, you know, I'd listen and I ask a lot of questions because I'm not just trying to figure out, are you right for me? I'm like, how do you do it? How do you do it over there? How did you do it in the company before? How did that work? What the pitfalls? So I am like, again, I'm always in learning mode and I'm trying to figure out like, what is the best way that that role works outside of where I am so that I could potentially bring that in.

56:19I also hire for attitude over experience. I don't care if you've done it for 25 years. I haven't done it for 25 years and I'm great at it. So I'm like, give me the person that has the flexible mentality. Because if you come to me and you're like, this is the way it should be done. I'm like, no, thank you. You know, I'm like, are you flexible? Are you that type of person that can see a new thing and run? Like, are you a team player? Are you somebody that can, again, Sometimes you need real specialists, but more often than not, I need people that understand how every part of the business works and they can be a really, really deep in their vertical, but that they have enough foresight that they understand a little bit about what everybody's doing.

57:01You know, in management speak, they call it a T-shape leader, but it's like, that's what I'm looking for. I need you to have enough understanding that you can see the patterns, that you can understand the story, you can put that all together and then run with it. So good. That's what I need. Not a lot then. I don't ask for much. No, I think it really is everything. And it's something that I've learned slowly and along the way. It's just, it's everything. And you said it exactly like people that give you leverage, you know, people who are smarter and better. And it's so critical. Okay. What about working with your husband?

57:41how are you like how are you like in a p &l with someone and then like want to make out with them it's so funny you know i the funny thing about jens is that again we do very different things there's there's no overlap when we got this new office we just got this beautiful new office building and we were gonna have like eyesight of one another like from one glass office to another and I was like, somebody build a wall. I can't see this bitch the whole day. I am not looking for that. You know, and we laugh because we go to work sometimes in two cars and we're like in convoy, but we're separate because we'll be on the phone.

58:21We had, you know, I used to work for Jens. He was my first investor, him and Eric. And I think that what I had was a way of working with him before we had our marriage and our relationship together. And he's Swedish. So he has a very good way of separating everything. You know, like he's just very black and white. You know, I'm like, just not, you know, I'm emotional and I'm like all the things all the time. And he's like, Emma, pull yourself together. I feel like some of the hardest things I've learned come from him. You know, he's really very straightforward and honest. And I'll ask him a question and he'll tell me the actual truth.

59:03And I'm like, don't do that. I needed you to like, you know, soften that up and be really sweet and lovely. And he's like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, hell, like read the room, you know. But I think ultimately we don't do what each other do. And he has a lot of respect for my ambition. And when we moved here, it was because of me. Wow. You know, he was like, you have a moment in time. This company's going crazy, good American. And I think that we should go to LA. And I was like, really? Like, we're going to live there with the actors and the actresses? And like, you know, and he was like, yeah, it'll be great.

59:41The sun shines and it's beautiful. Now you couldn't take me back to England if you tried. It's hard to go back after. I mean, you've done it. You've done it the other way around. It's like you ain't going back to Highgate. You're not going back to those grey mornings. You know, that's tough. The school run in February. It's hard. I don't miss it. As opposed to this beautiful sunshine and a, you know, drive-through drop-off. No. It's pretty, I know. It's okay, good.

1:00:19Tell me about the 15 % Pledge and how it started. It's so incredible. Thank you. So the 15 % Pledge is an incredible economic justice organization that was started. It's a nonprofit. It was started by my dear friend, Aurora James. I'm the chairwoman of the Pledge, which is one of my proudest accomplishments. And we work with brands and retailers all over the country to have them redirect 15 % of their annual spend towards Black-owned businesses. And, you know, when the Pledge was started just after the murder of George Floyd, And it was, you know, really directly an initiative that was there because so many business owners and so many leaders were thinking, what is it that I can do?

1:01:00And how have I ignored this for so long? And how can we create a more equitable playing field? And at the end of it, you know, I look at it now. The Pledge has been unbelievably successful. We've created a$16 billion pipeline for black owned businesses. So much opportunity. So many incredible brands from Sephora to Macy's to Nordstrom to Ulta. They've all taken the pledge and they're doing incredible work. And for clarity, it's not, you know, you're not putting your hand up and pledging. You are in a contractual commitment to work towards greater equity for these businesses on the shelves. But I think what's been really interesting is to see how that's really enhanced the customer journey.

1:01:41Because if you're somebody like me and you always want to make things great for customers. And I think, look, supporting small businesses, small American businesses is an idea everyone can get behind. right? It's like, it's always a good idea. But when you think about it through the customer lens, what do you get when you walk into Sephora? Well, more people can shop there. More people can find great products there. And if you make a great hair conditioner and you just so happen to be a black founder, well, guess what? You can use that hair conditioner. I can use that. Anyone can. So it's about creating better choice for the customer and then bringing more customers into your business.

1:02:14So it's something that I love. It's something that is a nonprofit and does really great work and help so many of these founders to really create stability within their own businesses and their own brands. But more than that, it's been amazing for these retailers that have got behind it. So in this moment where we see so much reversal of DE &I policies, you know, I look at this and I say, wow, what, how incredible were those brands that quite frankly, when they could reverse and they could decide, you know what, nobody's looking right now. And it will be a great moment to come back on our commitment, that they're still doing the work isn't just a testament to them being great brands.

1:02:53They know it's a great business proposition. It's just that simple. Nobody would stay doing it if it wasn't commercially viable. What brands are sticking with it? Oh, they're all sticking with it, which is really great. So Sephora is, to me, they've done such an incredible job, but Nordstrom, Macy's, Bloomingdale's, they're all completely sticking with it. Ulta Beauty, these are just It's like, you know, companies that do the work. They're amazing at what they do. And, you know, they're doing amazing business. Yeah, but also, Emma, it's like you're able to seed, you know, you're going to create generational wealth for Black founders the way you've done it for yourself.

1:03:31Yes. You know, it's such a beautiful thing to do. And it does make the brands better. It does make it better for the consumer. It makes things more diverse and more interesting and opens the aperture. and it's, I think it's amazing. No, me too. And I think what's been kind of nice for me is to see, you know, you have to think about, you know, and I'm sure you give a lot and nonprofit is a really interesting world. This is so tangible, right? When you put a brand on the shelf of Nordstrom or Sephora, that has an immediate impact. Those founders are able to stay in business. They're able to put their kids into good school.

1:04:07They're able to hire more people. They're able to have impact in their community and you don't need to wait five years for that to happen. It's immediate. And so what I love is seeing businesses that we started with at the pledge and they, you know, had a couple of million dollars of sales or maybe not even. And now they're, you know, doing their series B. They're like, you know, they're proper companies that have surpassed those initial few POs that came from pledge takers. And now they're in big box retail. And for me, I'm like, that's the part that I look at. I'm like, oh, that's amazing. Like I remember that girl when she applied for the achievement award and we gave a 200, you know, 200 grand grant.

1:04:42And now look at her, that those things you can't, they stay with you. And for me, that's the bit that I'm, I just, I can't get over. I'll never get over it. I'm sure. Tell me about this new podcast that you're working on. I'm very excited. So am I. Well, you know, it kind of comes down to this thing of, I never actually wanted to start my own business. It's not like I grew up thinking I'm going to start my own company and become an entrepreneur and make a load of money and, you know, do more and more and more companies. To me, work was something that, you know, you did to pay your bills. And for most of the people that I knew, it was like quite unenjoyable, right?

1:05:16You didn't really love what you do. You just did a job to pay the bills. And what I understood as I've started to have more success is that everyone asks me the same questions. They're like, how did you do it? How did you do it with no education? How did you go from being like this corporate chick to running your own companies? And in fact, how do you just like ask for a pay rise and be really confident how you are. And I know that I have great access. You know, if I call you and say, hey, Gwyneth, would you be on my podcast? You go, yeah. And I was like, really? You will? Thank you. That's so cute.

1:05:48But you know, it's like, I have a lot of access and I know a lot of people. And I think that information is so key. You know, it's like the type of things that I've been told and the learnings that I have and what I've seen, that's enabled me to be really successful. And so I was really thinking about this idea of how do you scale mentorship? Like, how do I create this like way of spreading information and taking it is taking what I've learned, taking the people I know and making that more accessible to more people. And, you know, I love to chat. So I was like, let's do a podcast. It will be amazing.

1:06:24You get the right people on and you explore their journeys. And we talk about, you know, the things in the most honest and open way. And I also know because female founders specifically all face very, very similar problems. And I'm sick of toxic positivity. I'm allergic to it. I'm like, no, you can't just close your eyes and manifest it, babe. And it's all going to work out. It doesn't work like that. You know, you've got to come to work. You've got to do some stuff. And some of it is really, really difficult. And this idea that I always get told off for like talking about money. I'm like, really?

1:06:56Like, do you know what happens when you don't speak about money, when you elegantly avoid the subject of money? The money has a way of elegantly avoiding you. You know, it really does. The money goes seet skirt and it goes like somewhere else. And so I want to talk about those things. And I don't think it's inelegant. And I don't think that we have to be like men and talk about it in that way. We can be like women, but we can still speak about these things that somehow seem to evade us. You know, it's like, I want more women to have big positions of power. I want more women to start companies and I want more women to like come into a lot of money so that they can make the decisions and the choices and do all the things that I get to do.

1:07:35So that's why I thought I'd start this lovely podcast. It's called Aspire with Emma Greed, because I feel like we're all aspiring to something, right? Like everybody wants to build the life of their dreams and everybody wants to do great stuff. And so I'm going to speak to people that I aspire to and that, you know, can share some, some good stuff. Okay. We're going to end with the rapid fire. These are cute. Love a rapid fire. Okay. First thing you do when you wake up. Say thank you for the ceiling. Last thing you do before bed. Kissing goodnight. So sweet. One thing always in your makeup bag.

1:08:16Eyebrow pencil. Always. I didn't think you were going to say that. Oh, it's the only thing I care about. Favorite place to unwind? In the front of my house on the beach in Malibu. Yeah, it's the best thing ever. It's the best thing I've ever done in my life. It was okay in the fires. Thankfully, yes. My goodness. Favorite meal in Los Angeles? Oh, I love Anajak Thai. Oh, that's good. It's just so delicious and I cannot do one dish. I need all the dishes. I'm like a 14-dish orderer just for two. That's in Sherman Oaks, right? Yes, it's so good. It's so delicious. Favorite meal in London? Oh, Scots.

1:08:53Scots. Yes. Old fish restaurant. Yeah, I love a good old fish restaurant. Delicious. Okay, you have 48 hours off. Travel time is not included. Where are you going? Paris, with no shadow of a doubt. I love it. What's your favorite restaurant in Paris? Oh, you know, like, I like the memories. I want to go to like cafe floor and like sit there and just like, you know, be how I was when I was like 25. Smoking or something. Those were the days. Those were the days. Favorite campaign you've ever worked on? Would it be Gwyneth Paltrow for Hugo Boss back in the day? Thanks for that job, by the way. You're welcome.

1:09:39Thank you very much. It was good for Back to Bus. Definitely. the most arresting campaign that wasn't yours. Like it could be anything. It could be, you know. Oh, do you know what I liked? I thought that Pete Davidson Reformation one, I was like, oh, I should have thought about that. Oh, I missed that. It was good. It was like, I don't know. It was like a boyfriend sitting outside a fitting room. But I was like, that was smart. Like it was a Valentine's Day thing. And I was like, good casting, you Reformation girls. Damn it. They're great. Which shark would you most want to partner with? Mark Cuban all day long.

1:10:14Mark Cuban. Love me some Mark Cuban. He's a nice guy. He's the nicest man. When you meet with a founder, is there an immediate turnoff?

1:10:26Yes. Someone who says to me, the market size is$15 billion. I'm like, talk to me out, Mark. Tell me how you're going to get a customer. Don't tell me the size of the market for like floss. Like, please no. And what about the biggest founder turn on? Just the energy. I want someone who is nuts about what they do. You know, if you can tell me about all the competition, like I am obsessed with you. I'm like, yes. And I don't care what it is, what the category is. Like I invested in these girls who have nipple covers and there is not a thing that they don't know about undergarments, nipple covers.

1:11:04They're amazing. I mean, they did$120 million last year. I think. Do you have, Kate? right now. Do you? Yes. I'll show you. One of the cakes.

1:11:18And who's your favorite of your kids? No, just kidding. I was going to have one as well. Everyone has a favorite kid, don't lie. Really? Of course, yes. I only have two and I have a boy and a girl. Oh, so you have a favorite boy and a favorite girl? Yeah. No, no. I mean, look, yeah. I mean, I'm not going to say it because it would traumatize them, would it? Yeah, don't. Yeah, you know. But is there something that being a mother has taught you that is surprising? That's a lovely question. I don't think I understood how maternal I am. You know, I always thought that I was just going to have these kids and I'm not going to roll with me.

1:11:57I'm like, I'm extremely maternal as a person. Yeah. That's so sweet. See, you're the dream. Now you know why you're my girl crush. I'm so sweet. I do. That's so lovely.

1:12:13Emma is one of those rare people who leads with vision and generosity in equal measure. She's not just building brands. She's creating space for others to rise with her. She reminds us that it's possible to build boldly while staying grounded in what matters, proving that a little grit and gratitude go a long way in creating something extraordinary. Thanks for listening. See you next week.