Erin & Sara Foster on Finding Success on Their Own Timeline

22:08Gwyneth Paltrow:I love that. But yes, Aaron has definitely helped me, you know, in so many ways. But when it came to the clothing, that the seed was planted for us in the clothing business as a little T-shirt collaboration with like a little random company that had reached out to Aaron who just made T-shirts and sweatshirts saying, you and Sarah are really funny. Would you guys ever want to do captions for T-shirts and sweatshirts? Okay. Now, Aaron goes, this sounds cool. I hear that and I go, okay, great. I'm a copywriter now. Okay. I mean, this was such a little deal that we didn't even have a contract. Okay.

22:51Gwyneth Paltrow:So that's where the favorite daughter name came? Yes. Well, well. We had a contract, just no lawyers looked at it, which was really smart of us. We signed it at Hugo's over lunch. So basically we, you know, like 15, no, 20 years ago or something, we started, our dad wanted us to have an LLC with our sisters for like legal things. And, and I being the person who always had to do everything was the person who exec named it or whatever. And like was the executor who would sign, sign things. So I just named it favorite daughter music because like every other parent, you know, our dad would joke when he was alone with us that we were the favorite.

23:30And so everybody's being told that they're the favorite when you're alone. And then you talk to each other and realize that he's been telling everybody this. so it was just like a joke like a nothing you know call it favorite daughter music so then when we were doing these t-shirts I thought I was so clever coming up with like dying alone with like a cat on it or like currently peaking like all these things that I thought were super clever undiscovered model they are thank you honey they didn't sell they didn't sell Sarah goes oh let's do one that says favorite daughter and I was like that's cheesy no that's boring and she's like Erin we're doing like 20 of them let's just do one I was like fine so we do favorite daughter put a little heart on it and two million dollars of sales in one t-shirt come on weird yeah nothing else sells except for this dumb ass t-shirt and so we're like that's interesting and basically this company centric took notice of it because this t-shirt started being everywhere and by the And therein lies our partnership, right?

24:33Like it's like the things that, you know, she came up with this idea 20 years ago, but then I brought it back around. She shit on it, but I did it anyway. You know, it's like the ebb and flow and, and this sort of, it's just. because I wanted it to be edgy. I wanted us to like come up with like snarky things and felt like cute. You know, all these people were buying it for their eight year old daughters and like buying it for all three of their daughters. They'd wear it in a picture together like a joke. And I was like, cute, but that's not what I'm going for. I'm going for like hard comedy. And I was wrong.

25:05This is the thing that worked. And so, wow, a company came to Centric and they said, we want to start a fashion brand around this IP. And it was something that that had never occurred to us. We weren't trying to do something bigger. And I think again, Sarah's instinct is fear. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't wanna put ourselves out there like that. Where I was just sort of like, we're not doing a fashion brand. We're not fashion girls. Like we don't even care about fashion. Like we don't, we, you know. But that ends up being our speech.

25:31Gwyneth Paltrow:That's what's so refreshing about it in a way too, you know? It's like, because what you are is like, you know your personal style. You guys always look really cute. It's a very California brand in my mind, you know? So it's like it turns it on its head. Like the whole point is that you're not like New York fashion bitches who take yourselves too seriously in that respect, right? You're like these gorgeous blonde dress like yourselves always look great sisters. Thank you. I think that what we realized is that there's fashion is such a strong identity of the it bag and the it coat and the$2 ,000 this and coveted stuff.

26:14And you have to be on the list and, and that's not who we are. And so that's not our brand, our brand. It turns out there's way more women in the world like us, right? It's there's more girls like us because girls can't afford to be that person. And even if Sarah and I could afford it, it's just not who we innately are. So I think that the special sauce is a combination of us staying very true to ourselves, not who we want to be, not who we wish we were, but who we actually are. Because I've always been intimidated. You know, my best friend, Jamie, she's like the most stylish person on the planet.

26:49Like that's intimidating for me. Right. I wish I could effortlessly throw something on. It's like a caftan with like feathers hanging off and it like looks effortless, but like, that's not me. So I think big part of it is accepting the truth of who we are and turning that into a superpower. And then also if we sign up to do something, we really, really, really follow through with it. We stay focused on every detail, just the same way you did when you started Goop. It's not like you started something and then walked away. Like every single detail is being paid attention to. And you can't take your eye off the ball at any point.

27:25Sarah and I are still in every fitting. That doesn't change.

27:28Gwyneth Paltrow:Same. So when you say, like, I thought that was really interesting how you just said, we're very true to who we are, not who we want to be or think we are. How do you distill that down for yourselves? Do you think there's a freedom and just full acceptance of like, okay, I'm letting go of this aspiration that I'm going to be X? I was in... You what? I just think there's a freedom in it. I think that resisting the truth makes you go crazy. And I think for me, at least, it's not like I was born comfortable. It took me a really, really, really long time to stop trying to be something else. And I just got comfortable asking what a word meant or, you know, on a trip, someone goes, what's the last book you read?

28:14I'm like, oh, I don't know. I haven't read a book in a year. I would have panicked and lied to somebody at that point. If I was 25, I would have got like to kill a mockingbird. I don't know. It'd make something up that I thought was impressive. Like I just read it for fun. But that would be insane. If you said the last book you read was to kill a mockingbird at a dinner party. Some annoying guy on a date would say that, you know, and it would send me into a spiral about it. But I don't know. I just couldn't live like that any longer.

28:50Gwyneth Paltrow:So how do you define yourselves, each of you? What are like the three to five kind of main and values that you each carry? Oh, shit. You mean, oh man, that's a good question, Gwyneth. Those hard, see, I told you, Erin, she's a hard-hitting journalist. That's not hard-hitting journalism, honey. No, I don't know about it. I'm just really curious. I wanna hear how, like you were talking about the truth of who you really are, so what are some words that help elucidate that for us? I mean, I think for myself, truth and honesty is sort of like the forefront of my persona and how I live. And, and for me, having integrity is really important.

29:34And I understand that might be obvious, but I mean, like, if I'm, if I'm talking about someone behind their back, it is really important to me that I don't go then kiss their ass two days later. Like I have to stay true to the things that I say, and I try really hard to do that. I also am an anxious person and I'm a really reactive person. It's really hard for me to not get like activated by things and to not have like a jump reaction of defensiveness or justifying something. It's hard for me to apologize. Just saying some of my negative things. And I really also accept myself, you know, good and bad.

30:20Good and bad. Sarah. Yeah. You know, I'm in an interesting place because I only really started taking a hard look at myself like four years ago, as you know. You know, we would sit at the dinner table and you'd say to me like, well, are you in therapy? And I would just look at you and be like, no. And you would look at me and be like, okay. I mean, and you would lovingly be like, I know some people. if you'd like their number. This is an intervention. But like, I really realized over the last four years that I have a lot of unhealed shit. And it's really crazy looking at it so late in life. I mean, it's like, it's such a disservice I've done to myself because there's nothing you can't overcome.

31:21You can wake up tomorrow and change. I believe that. Yes, I believe, you know, we are who we are. And there are certain things about me. I'm always just going to kind of be flaky. I'm always going to kind of be bad on text, even though my therapist is actually, he's literally, he texts me at 530 every day. And he's like, what's your text count at? But I've, I've realized I have really, this is a very good time to be texting Sarah because her therapist has mandated that she respond to people. Wow.

31:46Gwyneth Paltrow:Well, maybe I'll try again then now that I know it's part of the protocol. But I do have deep anxiety. I want to be a perfectionist. I am a people pleaser. I avoid conflict, but yet then when I'm in conflict, I thrive in it because I love to just scream at somebody. I mean, I'm really like a fucked up person. It's crazy. I will stay in a bad relationship for way long longer than i should because i'm too i don't i want to avoid the conflict of leaving a relationship i mean i'm talking like you know along you know earlier relationships i'll stay with like a bad agent like an agent who like won't return my calls for two years i still stay i'm like oh well you know i don't want to fire him even though he would love to probably get rid of me i've just never known how to face conflict but then i'm very combative you know like I love to say to someone like you can go fuck yourself like I that doesn't stress me out to say that to someone which is not normal I know I like when it comes yeah like that but when it comes to business whenever I'm like I'm not fucking putting up with this shit this is bullshit Sarah panics and it's like no no you can't say that to the person like she has a very like we're lucky to be here kind of mindset where I'm like I'll turn the whole house down it's like a peacemaker mindset you know which which it's kind of like a let's let's not let's not do anything to blow up the situation.

33:10But also in business, Aaron is more confident because Aaron has an innate talent. Aaron is a writer. She will always be able to fall back on being really talented at something. I am more of a connector and a, like, I don't even know what you want to say about me, but I feel like I always have to be, you know, churning. I have to always be, I don't know what the word is. So when Aaron is like, no, let's walk away from this deal. I'm like, wait, what? No, you can't walk away because then if you walk away, then the deal might explode. And then where's my security? Because financial security is a very, I'm always, we had a mom who was an amazing mom, but our mom, you know, supported us on child support checks.

33:56Like that's how it works, right? Like there was scarcity.

33:58Gwyneth Paltrow:There was, yes. And I, I knew when the child support check was late i knew i knew as the oldest as the oldest daughter so in my mind i'm like i don't i don't want to be living my life like that so i have to constantly i'm always in fear that i will lose everything that i will have nothing it's just a thing and it's right so right so that makes sense then you want to keep things sort of a status quo because they they you know you you could make something worse right by yeah it's a terrible way to live but Well, but I, you know, I, I just want to say, you know, I think there's been a lot of growth from, from that.

34:40Gwyneth Paltrow:And, you know, like even, even deciding to, you know, around this time when you started to look at yourself about four years ago, I think there was like, you were very brave in how you started to think about the kind of life that you wanted going forward. And for example, how your romantic relationship dovetailed into that. And, you know, that is, that is a very brave, difficult thing to do, you know, to, as we've talked about a lot, you know, when you make a decision to, to not be with the father of your, of your children. And, but it is also a very self-honoring choice, you know, and Tommy's awesome.

35:20Gwyneth Paltrow:It's not about that. It's about, right? Like the reckoning of this is, I need to release the real me and be able to make decisions from that place. Yeah. I mean, I just spent, I've spent way too long just living in autopilot in so many ways. I used to say to you, I used to be like, it's like I'm at 37 ,000 feet in the clouds, like asleep at the wheel. Like I just don't, and that's not even, that was in every aspect of my life. I even found myself in the way that I parent, you know, that's no way that we should live our lives as a mother, as a partner, as a founder of who, as a human, as a woman, as a woman.

36:06Gwyneth Paltrow:But don't you think it's like also no accident that, you know, you sort of stuck a stake in the ground, claimed yourself, claimed your agency. And then like all of this success started coming. You know, I don't, I don't think that's an accident. Yeah. I mean, I, I also, I'm so lucky that I have Erin as a partner because Erin, Erin wakes up and, and she has an abundance mindset and not an abundance and get rich, but just an abundance, just an abundance can be a million things. And it's such a great way to live. And I wake up the opposite of that. So if I didn't have a partner with that mindset, like, I don't know.

36:49I mean, I would just, well, I'd be on OnlyFans, I guess, which still not know, you know, still not.

36:53Gwyneth Paltrow:It's always an option. We should collaborate. We should collaborate on that. And Erin, one of the things that really like fascinates me about you is that you do, you are an optimist. You have this, you do come from a place of abundance. I mean, of course you have your like dry, wicked sense of humor, but you, you are an optimist and you, you, you do have this sense of abundance that life is behind you. It's on your side. So how have you been able to, like when something really difficult, like, like you had 81 ,000 rounds of IVF, like how did you remain so positive? That's crazy. Like I've never, I've, I've never had a friend who's gone, been through the ringer more on that front.

37:40Gwyneth Paltrow:And I know you've talked openly about it. Otherwise I wouldn't have spoken about it, but how, like, I'm so interested in like, what was your philosophy around doing it, continuing to do it, the resilience? How did you conjure the resilience? Like, how did you stay so positive until you got the result? It's crazy. I mean, there were a lot of times I didn't feel positive. You know, I mean, there was a time where like, I think after maybe 10 or 11 rounds, I like kind of had a mental breakdown and I was like, I need to go somewhere. and I don't remember if I asked her if she offered, but our little sister, Jordan, got on a plane.

38:23She had a baby. She lived in New York and she got on a plane and met me in Sonoma. And we like turned our phones off for three days and drank wine and rode bicycles and got massages and disconnected. And it like kind of saved me. It gave me another, I don't know, three or four years of going through it. Like it gave me some stamina because I just felt like I was gonna lose my mind a little bit with the frustration. So I hit breaking points. It's not like I was always positive, but I had a really strong faith that it was going to work out. And I can only think of the comparison to finding my partner because when I was flailing and going on bad dates and not in a place where it seemed like it was going to work out, I just had this strong feeling that it would work out.

39:12And I didn't know how, but I did think it would. And I think a big part of the fertility faith and the love faith and the kind of faith everyone should have is it might not work out how you want it to, but it will work out if you allow it to. And I really felt like I will meet my person. And I remember having a very clear age in my mind when I was like 32 or something. I might not meet my person until I'm 41. That was an age that scared me. I might not meet my person until I'm 41 and he might already have kids and I might be a stepmom. And if that's how it works out, but it works out, I have to be okay with that.

39:53I don't like how that looks. I don't like how it sounds. I don't like how long it's going to take, but I have to be okay with it.

40:00Gwyneth Paltrow:Sort of letting go of those prescriptions, like the prescriptive, my life has to look like this. Yeah. And I don't know where that comes from. I think just because I had a harder time the first half of my life and Sarah had an easier time the first half of her life. And then we sort of switched roles and Sarah started to have a hard time because she was looking at herself and I started to have an easier time. But my life didn't turn out the way I thought it was going to. It's very different. And I ended up having a baby at 41 and that's not when I thought I was going to have a baby, you know, but now I look at it and I go, wow, the timing was really perfect.

40:37And it just worked out.

40:40Gwyneth Paltrow:So like, it sounds to me listening to you that you have faith, let faith, I don't, you know, it, it, it, it, it courses through your body, like this knowing, like, I know it's going to be okay. I don't know how, right. Or I'm going to let go of these preconceived ideas about how my life is going to look in the timeframe, which are very, very difficult for young women to do, especially in our culture, I think. So then you meet the love of your life and it turns out that he's Jewish and you have to convert to Judaism. And I'm so curious because like there are so many beautiful things in Judaism, especially the mystical side, which really resonates with me.

41:21Gwyneth Paltrow:And I come from this long line of mystical rabbis. Like when you went through the process of converting, was there anything about the Jewish faith that you learned about that sort of like ratified the internal faith that you had already? Like did you combine those things in any way? Or were you just like, no, I'm just converting so that this hot Jewish guy will marry me? I mean a little bit of both I guess. But, you know, like 15 years ago, my girlfriend, Sophia Rossi, she got more religious in her Jewish faith and she decided to sort of dive deeper into Judaism. And I went to a few Jewish classes with her just because I had nothing else to do.

42:06And I was fascinated by it. And I weirdly like posted a picture on Twitter 15 years ago that was me holding a book about Judaism. and I said like, attention, Jewish guys who make great husbands, I'm willing to convert. And it was just a joke. You know, I just obviously in my mind heard Jewish guys make great husbands. And I thought like that would be a great life for me. And then, you know, 15 years later, it was happening and I manifested it in some way that I didn't even understand at the time, which is so funny. I really think that the thing about Judaism that I really connected to was the idea that you're allowed to question everything and you're actually expected to question everything.

42:46So when I started to convert to Judaism, I was really nervous that I was going to end up having to do something that didn't align with me internally and that I would be faking it. And that really, really scared me. I didn't want to sign up for something that didn't feel right to me. And it was when I voiced that concern and the rabbi was like, great, these are exactly the conversations we should be having. I was thinking, wow, I'm in the right place.

43:11Gwyneth Paltrow:Has it been additive for you? Yeah, it has. I don't connect my faith to my life working out with religion, but I really like this feeling I have with Judaism where it's this framework that we can always come back to when we're feeling a little out of sorts. Simon and I travel, we work, and it's like, let's do Shabbat together. Let's have friends over. Let's have dinner. Simon's really good at saying, let's light the candles tonight and talk about our week. and let's talk about what we want to do better next week and let's reconnect and let's be grateful for each other that stuff is really like comforting to have and i chose a partner who is very sentimental and very you know focused on a connection and constantly reaffirming the connection and reestablishing it and to me there's a connection with judaism in that because I don't know.

44:08It's like an inherently a part of the culture. I also think we grew up around chaos and there's something about the Jewish religion that is the opposite of that. It's like, I've clinged to Judaism through, I was going to ask you through Aaron and Simon and his parents, Marina and Anatoly and the siblings, Masha and out. It's like, it's this beautiful family that, you know, they, they, they are so loving to one another. And it's not that our family wasn't loving, of course, but it was just chaos. And there's something about, about the way that the families that I've now met that practice Judaism, that it's, it's, it's, it's chaos in a more beautiful way.

44:53Does that make sense? Like it's the coming together. It's the family. It's the connecting. It's the conversations. It's the listening. It's the showing up for one another. And we've all through Aaron and Simon, now we get to experience, it's a whole new experience for our family.

45:12Gwyneth Paltrow:That's so beautiful. Yeah. Don't you know any nice Jewish husbands for your sister? Oh my God, that would be amazing. You know what? I think I feel season three of Nobody Wants This coming along. Oh, my God. Should we talk Nobody Wants This? Yes, because this is a perfect segue because you obviously wrote this wildly successful show for Netflix based on – well, loosely semi-based on your relationship with Simon and the conversion and Sarah, you produced it. I mean, again, like I cannot tell you how thrilling it was when you guys were like, yeah, we're like, I don't know. We're just working on, I'm sure it's nothing.

46:03Gwyneth Paltrow:Like we're doing this show for Netflix and then it's like the biggest hit of the year and Emmy nominated. So proud. So how did you parlay that this story of your life? Like, how did you even start to, were you like, this is just a great story? Because you're a writer, you're like, oh, this is comedy gold. Like I'm writing all this real life stuff down and I'm going to turn it into a TV show. It was really Ollie. It was Ollie. Yeah, it was a big part was Ollie. Ollie Opes, who's our producing partner and manager at Three Arts. No, honestly, when I met Simon, I kind of stopped writing because I'd just come off of a pilot that I had shot that did get made that I really thought should get made.

46:45I was very kind of like disenchanted with everything. And I was almost 36 and I was sort of like, I don't know what I'm chasing, but I don't really want to chase it anymore. I really want to be a wife and a mom. And like, that's my next chapter. And so when I met someone who was not in entertainment, really in this side of it, you know, he wasn't chasing that thing. And we started to establish this sort of domestic life together, I just thought, this is kind of what I want now. And this isn't really funny, right? Like, what am I going to write about? I was always writing about my failures or bad dates or bad relationships.

47:20And that was really funny to me. And there wasn't anything funny about this to me. I was like, it's really sweet and wholesome and

47:26Gwyneth Paltrow:like, and I read that you were slightly worried that that was going to make you like a less sharp comedian writer yeah I definitely was because Simon has never dated anyone who's in the spotlight like this he's never did anyone whose life is out there he's very private he comes from an immigrant family like you don't talk about anything so the idea that I was gonna write something that was inspired by our life was very challenging for us at first because Simon was like no you can't do that like you can't write about us that's no you can't make fun of my family. Like that's not okay. So it kind of shut me down creatively.

48:01I didn't really know what to pull from if I wasn't allowed to make fun of my relationship. I didn't really know what I was supposed to write about. And Ollie was kind of like, what are you doing with your life? Like, why aren't you writing? This is so weird. We should write about this and find a way to do it. And so he pushed me to, and then, and then, and then I did it. And I found a way to not make it in a lot of ways, Simon probably pushed me to tell the better story, which is the more wholesome story, which is about these two people loving each other instead of it being all about the comedy.

48:37Yeah. It wasn't about making fun of this connection. It was about celebrating it. And the irony is that I feared it wouldn't be funny or interesting enough to write about. And then, you know, unintentionally, it ended up being this like celebration of healthy love. And the celebration of like grown up love and two people who really should be able to make it work, trying really hard to get over their shit for each other. And that absolutely is what we were doing in real life. I just didn't really realize that that was going to resonate for everyone, that part of it, you know?

49:13Gwyneth Paltrow:And Sarah, what's your role in it? Like, what do you, from a hands-on perspective, are you coming up with stories? like what does a producer do yeah i mean when it came to this specific this was just like one of the five projects that we we had an overall deal at at 20th and this was sort of which is so cool by the way i mean which is so cool but as you know it's impossible you think you have something great you know we were really developing things that we thought were really good and edgy and funny and had all the things. And even if someone buys it, it dies. It's crazy. You never know when to celebrate in this business.

49:55So Shiksa was one of five, which was I think one of five projects we had in development under our deal. And originally we had sold Shiksa, I think it was just me, Ollie, and Erin in the room. We sold it to 20th. They were like, yeah, this is great. This is great. And I started thinking to myself, I was like, this business is so cut throat. Like, how are we, how is this not going to be one of the five other projects that is never going to see the light of day? Like, what do we do? How do we actually get this freaking bot? So I was like, I think we need to bring in like someone major to come on board.

50:34And I think this person needs to come on board and their name and their influence and their, it's going to help. It's going to, as we know, it's like a package situation. Like you gotta, you know, whatever. So we brought Steve Levitan on who created Modern Family. And so that's what a producer does. A producer is like, how can we get this bought? How can we actually put ourselves in the best position to get this on the air? And so from there, you know, you have your relationships at places. I had a relationship at Netflix. And then once you're there, then yeah, I'm involved in breaking story and storylines.

51:11and editing and on set, that was season one. But this is Erin's show, you know? I mean, Erin's the creator and I'm just, you know. And then, yeah, so it's like, I'm not a writer by any means, but -

51:25Gwyneth Paltrow:But you're so funny and you're so clever. I have a pretty good idea of like what people want. I understand what people want, you know? Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, and so, you know, you're involved in casting and you're involved in all of those things.

51:52Gwyneth Paltrow:so what is it like now that you're you know it's like you guys are how old are you 42 and 44 yeah so how what is it like to like at 42 and 44 have this monster hit i mean it's really validating It is really validating. And it's cool. I mean, there's nothing, I mean, I think that, you know, we, it's so weird. Like no one ever, I mean, no, it's hard for people to let you enjoy things, you know, cause it's always about what's going to happen next, whether it's your baby, or it's your relationship, or it's your show. And by the way, as big as a hit as the show was, you know, people will be onto the next thing, you know, a year from now.

52:37And that, that just naturally happens. And so I can only speak for myself. I'm trying to really enjoy it. You know, for me as a writer, I think that, you know, when you're a writer, you're putting your thoughts and your views on the world and a relationship. I mean, you're married to one out in the world to see what people think of it. And I've done it many times. You know, when people say to me, like, this is so crazy for you, like your first show and it's a hit. I'm like, bitch, this is my first show. This is just my first hit. I've had a lot of stuff that I've tried to put out there. And when you're getting feedback that's like, it's missing this or it's missing that, or you don't really write real jokes or hard jokes, or it's not really about anything.

53:22There's no big event that's happening. What's the engine? It makes you think like, maybe I'm not cut out for this or maybe I don't have what it takes. So to have this land the way that it did really kind of undid a lot of those fears that had been instilled in me, which was like, I don't have it.

53:43Gwyneth Paltrow:That's so great. And do you feel like it kind of paved those cracks over like and gave you more confidence? Yeah, because the things that I was told I didn't have as a writer are the things that people like about this show. So I don't think that I could write the next James Bond movie. I don't think that is what I'm right for. I just think that there's a lane now that I can do and I don't feel a need to be in every lane. I'm happy to be good at this lane. I'm happy to be good at the rom-com lane. I like this lane. I don't need to be all things to all people because I just don't think I'm capable of it.

54:18Gwyneth Paltrow:We need rom-coms in this day and age anyway, guys. I think, by the way, we have one for you. Oh, great. Well, I'm retired. Well, you're going to have to unretire, honey. Yeah. Okay. It's like a vasectomy. They can be undone. That's true. But, you know, Erin, it's so true. It's like I remember the studio saying to us about one project or whatever, like it reads like a play. You know, it reads like a play. Like it's not, you know, and Erin's like, but that's how I write. Like I, not Schicksal, but it was like another project. She's like, but I write, I have, that's how people talk. That's how people connect.

54:54that's how relationships evolve like it's long-winded conversations with awkward pauses and and you know and it turns out that like she didn't change her style to fit into what you know executives want she's like well this is just how i write if it's not going to get bought it's just not going to get bought and we have a million other things we can do you know and nobody wants this reads like a play because that's how people talk and that's how you fall in love with characters you know so it's oh sorry go ahead no I was just gonna say I think when it comes to talking about like not knowing if your career is gonna work out or not knowing if your relationship is gonna work out and all these things and having faith it's like the thing that I've learned is when you're dreaming about your perfect partner your perfect job like you don't even know your own potential it could be so much better than you even are imagining and so when you open it up to being different than how you see it, it's like, it's probably going to end up being better than you thought it was, but different.

55:55Maybe being a step-mom is literally going to be the most rewarding thing that you've ever felt, or it's going to be the relationship that you didn't realize you were ever going to have. It's like with my engagement ring. I didn't even know my own potential. I was sending this guy rings that were very small. I had no idea when he gave me something I didn't want, it was going to be even better than I imagined. That is an insane, like, what? Where did that? Sometimes we don't even know our own potential. But it does. Doesn't it kill you, GP and Erin, when you thinking going back to our 20s and our 30s?

56:29And obviously, we speak to women on our podcast. I think most of your audience is probably female. Don't you just want to shake the 27-year-olds that write us going like, I'm turning 30. My life is over. I don't know what I'm doing. You're like, oh my God, you're an infant. The best years are ahead of you. And you can't, we can only look at it. We can only look at it through that lens now that we're here and that life is now good. And you can't see that when you're 30, but God, I mean, our 20s suck so bad.

57:01Gwyneth Paltrow:The 20s are, it's like a double bind is the 20s are so inherently difficult. None of us know who the fuck we are or what we're doing or where we're trying to go. And then we have this incredible societal pressure that we're supposed to be married and have a kid by the time we're 30. I don't know where – I mean this is like a relic from like the days of having to have kids when you're 16. It's so crazy. That's the one thing that I wish the most is that the 30s are the most incredible time for real discovery. That's when you really start to get a sense of who you are and what you want. You can start – I wasn't married when I was 30.

57:41Gwyneth Paltrow:You know, I didn't have a kid when I was 30. And I felt so much pressure. I felt like I was failing. You know, I felt, and it's so stupid, as you say, like the 30, 30 is so young. And especially now with like fertility technology, you know, you can, there's no time pressure the way that there used to be as well. Yeah. Well, and the time that you're just starting to kind of discover your career self and figure out who you are is right when you're supposed to be having the baby and getting married. And it's really hard. That's right. When they're telling you your eggs are getting old. Yeah, exactly.

58:17Like it's exactly right. When you're feeling like I'm living up to my potential, I'm doing the thing I want to be doing in my career. It's like, oh, well, your eggs are going to be, you know, of no use in two years. I mean, it's just.

58:29Gwyneth Paltrow:Yeah. Can you, are you guys allowed to tell me any little tidbit, any little teaser on season two? When does it come out? First of all. It comes out October 23rd. I mean, the season one was, you know, these two people meeting and figuring out what to do with these feelings. And it ended with him choosing her over his career. And so season two is figuring out how they're supposed to make that work. It's really what the next four months look like in that relationship. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm really excited. I feel really good about it. I have to say, I feel really good. And I have to say too, like I love so much this, like, and you touched on it earlier, something that's so original about the show, which is like a paradigm of a good, healthy relationship.

59:17And people, you know, so often we see in romantic comedies, it's like the girl, you know, being stood up and it's like all the examples of terrible guys.

59:27Gwyneth Paltrow:and it's like she has to traverse through a series of bad guys in order to and i just love that it's just about these two really good people that are committed to this because i mean you're in a great relationship i'm sure you've experienced a version of this which is being in toxic complicated relationships is a little easy because you always have something you can blame for why it's not working and you can always make it the other person's fault and you can kind of behave badly the whole time because it's like there are no rules and then when you meet someone and you're in a healthy relationship you have to be all your gets exposed yes it really does you can't blame them for everything because they're not cheating and lying and pulling and saying one thing and doing another they're showing up and so you have to show up and you have to speak respectfully and you have to listen to their version of the story and you have to like better yourself and you can't slam doors and you can't cuss them out and you have to like be a real person and yeah and and i think that that felt really interesting to me to have that be the relationship that you analyze when you you really want to be good enough for the relationship because that person's showing up i i couldn't agree with you more and i think you know we need more examples of that in the culture, you know?

1:00:54Gwyneth Paltrow:Yeah. Yeah. Don't you feel like, and we're so used to seeing the dynamic and, you know, modern day television where it's like, it's the guy that's unsure. It's like the guy that's like, I don't know, like, I don't know. And it's usually the girl like really wanting the commitment. Right. And I think that's something else that people really gravitated to was seeing that reversal. It's like, it was nice to see the man know exactly what he wants. Like, I want you and I'm willing to, you know, do whatever it takes to be with you. And it was her, It was her kind of vacillating between, I don't know, I don't like my career, my this.

1:01:29It's just like I think people really loved that dynamic as well.

1:01:33Gwyneth Paltrow:There's a theme here, nice Jewish husbands. I'm telling you, Sarah. Sarah, be open to it. But I think also the more than that, I felt like I was sick of seeing dynamics in shows where you have a strong woman and the nice guy is sort of passive and soft. and you think in real life this would never work he would never be able to manage a woman like this he would never be able to like you know hold all of this and she wouldn't stay attracted to this guy and so i i really didn't want to show a dynamic that i couldn't see working in real life that's so great wait so amazing is brad jewish too yes hello aaron where have you been i don't know i for some reason i didn't think of him as jewish but i guess he is jewish too and you're Jewish, God, Sarah, you really need to join the party.

1:02:23I know.

1:02:24Gwyneth Paltrow:Well, I'm half technically, and some of my more religious friends don't accept me because my dad is the one who's Jewish. Yeah, but that's old school. I mean, reformed Judaism totally accepts father and mother. I mean, that was just when you didn't know who someone's father was. You just determined it by the mother because you knew for sure that was their mother. But now... I know, guys. There's DNA tests. Can I also just say, like, I love this podcast so much. I was saying to somebody, you, like, I'm not going to just now, well, I will toot your horn a little bit, but you are at the forefront of pivoting and doing things where you don't know how people are going to receive it.

1:03:04And like, nobody was doing podcasts when you started this podcast. I think when you started this podcast, I was like, what's a podcast? I'm not even kidding. And it's like so cool that to be on this podcast that I'm such a, I love this podcast. I listened to this podcast and I listened to like All In and The Daily. Yeah. Like that's it. Thank you, Sarah.

1:03:27Gwyneth Paltrow:So nice of you. No, I just like, you are, you are such a fricking trailblazer and it's like, you're so inspiring to all of us, to your friends, to people that don't. Oh my God. You got to be able to take, you're the worst at taking a compliment. I know. No, everyone knows you're amazing. Guys, stop talking about it. Oh my God. All right. Well, but it's just so nice of you to ask us to be on your podcast. No, I'm, I, you know, I love, you know, I really wanted to have you guys on because I think you are, I, you are, you both are like separately and together, this incredibly, like, I love how outspoken you both are, how honest you both are.

1:04:11Gwyneth Paltrow:I love how you sort of clash and combine paradigms. Like, oh, we're supposed to be like, if we're pretty, then we can't have a personality and we can't have a brain and we can't like say the really true, true thing. Like, I love how you guys are sort of punk rock in that way and how you're so yourselves. And I know you said earlier that you don't like confrontation, Sarah, but like one of my favorite things about you is how forthright you are, you know, and how you aren't afraid to say the confrontational thing when it needs to be said. So I just, I just, I'm really inspired by you guys and how, and I love seeing this like incredible success blossoming in your forties.

1:04:53Gwyneth Paltrow:And it's like, it's so exciting to see. And I think it's set such an amazing roadmap for other women who are like, you know, so many of us are like, what are we doing? What direction should I go in? And like, could this ever happen? And so it's just so inspiring. I guess we're all really inspired by each other. It's cool. It's true. I think it's also so helpful doing it with someone else. Like I really encourage young listeners, find a partner. Like I want my daughters to go to college, not because what they're going to be majoring is going to be the career path they take, but they're going to meet their people there.

1:05:29They're going to meet their future co-founders, their future mentors, their future people. They're going to start businesses with or who they're going to work for. Like it's all about connection in every which way. And yeah, Aaron and I are sisters. So it's like a built-in situation, but not really. I mean, I do encourage people. No, but I think you're absolutely right.

1:05:50Gwyneth Paltrow:Like the having a co-founder, right? Like, oh yeah. It's so, I mean, I wish that I had a co-founder. You know, I've had to build my business by myself and as an artist, I was by myself. You know, I think you're absolutely right on that. Yeah. I mean, there are certain things. It's a solo mission. It's a one person thing, but I do encourage people to put yourself out there and, and find someone to do this with, to do guys go on Bumble biz and find. Yeah. Okay. I love you guys. You're the best. Erin, I'll see you on the chat in about eight seconds. Literally we'll be, I'm sure we have like 26 missed messages on the chat.

1:06:33What do you guys do? You guys just like sit around and like You can't talk about it. Whatever. You guys get a life, okay? I mean, what is this? You're just like, oh, the laundry detergent. It is. When you want to talk about real shit, call me up, okay? All right.

1:06:48Gwyneth Paltrow:Guys, I love you both so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. It was so good to have you on here.

1:06:58Gwyneth Paltrow:Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate, and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.