Esoteric Systems: Why We Are Drawn To Them and How We Can Use Them to Serve Our Lives

17:02Emily Hickey:Um, no, it's fascinating. And it's somehow, so then the question, so either it's like just a Rorschach-y type thing. Yeah.

17:09Gwyneth Paltrow:Like, are we doing these things to feel better? Do we think there's inherent wisdom in this stuff?

17:14Emily Hickey:I mean, I think what, I mean, this is discrediting to myself, I guess, but I think it's somehow knows not in the sense that what Jung would say is that, you know, We've talked about this, his concept of synchronicity, that he thinks things come out of a shared moment that are synchronous with each other. So that it isn't that the coins know what you asked or know who you are or there's no cause and effect to it at all. It's just that at the moment you threw the coins, it came out of the shared psychology of that moment in time.

17:44Gwyneth Paltrow:Which transferred energetically something onto the coins. Yeah, or that they came out of the same thing.

17:48Emily Hickey:There were two things coming out of you, you feeling that, you know, that it was that whole story of his about that rainmaker of the guy. Yeah. But I do this all the time in my life. You know, I've done it a lot this year. Retail that really quick because it's a good. I'm obsessed. This is helpful to anybody, anybody ever anywhere.

18:06Gwyneth Paltrow:It's very helpful. It is. Since you told me about it, I've circled back to it many a time in my head. Yeah.

18:13Emily Hickey:I really use this. And I think especially this year when it's just such a gigantic chaos machine of 2026. Everybody I know, not, you know, I mean, so, but basically his favorite story to the point where he would tell his students, they'd be like, have I told you the one about the rainmaker? And everybody would laugh. But his Richard Wilhelm, who was the, you know, the guy who brought Chinese philosophy to the West, period. He translated everything. He embedded himself in China in the early 1900s, lived in rural China, dug up everything. The definitive translation of the I Ching is him. So he really was the guy who brought the East to the West.

18:53Emily Hickey:But he, so he was embedded with these, you know, these ancient Chinese societies. It was like the most beautiful time, you know, China. Maybe it was like the most beautiful civilization ever, actually, you know, like ancient China. But this is the 1900s and that's all still existed. But he was in a village. There was a drought. There had been a very long drought. And it was going to be game over for the village. So they went, they knew about a rainmaker, you know, somewhere in the vicinity. So they went, got that guy out of his hut in some distant village, brought him. He said, they said, will you help us?

19:30Emily Hickey:And he came back with them to this village. And he said, I need a hut. He sat in the hut for three days. And on the third day, it snowed. And this is Wilhelm saying this. I know, I believe this. you know? And so Wilhelm then went into the hut and said, how did you, how did you make it snow? And the guy was like, I didn't make it snow. He said, but when I left my village, I felt good. Everything felt good. And when I walked into this village, everything felt off. And so I sat and still and meditated until everything felt good again inside me. And then the thing that naturally should happen happened.

20:06Emily Hickey:Right. And so, you know, Jung would say that that is a property of life and that if you settle, you know, you, you want to try to create the mental and emotional environment where the right things happen, that things just ensue from a certain state. And so I do that a lot. Like, you know, if I just am feeling like nothing is going, there's no order to the world and everything is going in 30 different directions. I always know I have to settle myself. And it's not manifestation.

20:35Gwyneth Paltrow:Because we have the instinct to push so hard against that stuff or to figure it out or how do I unlock this? And sometimes it's just, it's the exact opposite of that, which is, brings me to, to touch quickly on the human design thing only because I got, I, so somebody, it's not that well known, but it's based in astrology, which I still want to ask you about. Um, and it combines a whole bunch of different systems and it sounds shady. It was like some guy on Ibiza, like it came to him or whatever, but actually, cause it's chakras. It uses the I Ching. It uses the Kabbalistic tree of life. Um, and very much your chart.

21:20Gwyneth Paltrow:And for me, it said, what am I have to look up what I am again? But actually, Jen Aniston, sorry to drop the name, gave me this once for my birthday. And I was like, what the fuck is human design? And it was super interesting. And then I had like a reading with this person. And then it's like a very complicated chart you get. And I took copious notes and I lost the thing. But now there are LLMs who can help you. But so I'm a generator type, which I think is like 70 % of the people. And so I'm, I'm essentially a responder, like, which I thought was so interesting. Cause I always thought of myself as like, because I can, I have vision.

22:05Gwyneth Paltrow:I thought, oh, I have to be the one like opening the doors and like, you know, turning vision into action, but actually my power is in responding. So even if I, if I see something or I understand something and respond to it, or if somebody else presents something to me, then it's like, I, I, I can respond. I can know what the right thing to do is, you know, I can, but I'm not, I thought it was really interesting to think about or kind of redefining that for myself because I always like, oh, I'm failing because I'm not taking initiative in this way, you know, but it's not my type. according to the human design.

22:50Gwyneth Paltrow:Do you know what I mean?

22:51Emily Hickey:No, it's so interesting. I mean, see, I think that's the perfect way to use this stuff. I don't, I don't personally believe in all this in a literal way. Right. You know, I just think that they're helpful tools to get around your rational mind, but that that's interesting to think what would be the, um, like I was doing this last night and looking at mine, it was really interesting. It's not a way I thought about myself at all. Like what was your, what are your gotchas for that? You know?

23:14Gwyneth Paltrow:So mine are my key takeaways are I'm built to respond, not to initiate. My energy works best when I wait for life to come to me and let my gut respond rather than chasing. And I'm always like, it feels so inauthentic to me when I have to chase something or even like posting on Instagram on the team's like, come on, you gotta, I'm like, Oh God, you know, like that, like push into something I'm so allergic to. So the sacral is my engine and my compass. Satisfaction versus frustration. So like frustration, I can be easily frustrated and that's a sign that I'm sort of out of alignment or integrity.

23:57Gwyneth Paltrow:Like I'm not listening to my gut, you know? So I'll get frustrated when I haven't had the balls to like say what I mean, right? And I bridge through others. so I naturally seek people and environments that bridge the gap like you yeah you bridge the gap for me you know yeah um and the watch out there is like don't over depend on others to feel whole but I need like that I need those connectors I need people who can sort of give me interesting stuff to respond to and then I can move the ball like further down the field yeah no that's super

24:38Emily Hickey:interesting. I know.

24:39Gwyneth Paltrow:Yeah, that feels right. And I thought it was so cool. Like I have to digest, I have a closed digestion, so I have to digest in private.

24:51Emily Hickey:Intellectually? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.

25:03Gwyneth Paltrow:So how do you use this? Well, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just getting back into it now that I was reading it low. I was like researching it last night, but I think, um, I think it's like a framework to help the, I guess these things I'm drawn to them because it's so complicated being alive. It's so confusing. And it's like, what is, you know, it's like a sit with someone who like Brad, who's a total atheist and a total realist, you know, and then, you know, I'll sit with someone who's like a beautiful Christian and believes like so much in that. And then like sit with a friend who loves astrology or like, there's so many different approaches that are encompassed so many different things.

25:48And I don't

25:50Gwyneth Paltrow:know, maybe it's up to each of us to find like what the, what's the framework that makes us, that resonates most with us, but like something like this, I don't know, that was a real unlock for me, understanding that I'm not the person who's like supposed to bang the doors down. And like, that it makes sense that that feels so weird. And also that I really need to be alone to recharge, you know, cause sometimes people are like, Oh, like, cause I'm, I've always felt like a very introverted extrovert. Like I have to like, sometimes I'm an extrovert, but I need, I need to recharge so much after something like that.

26:29Gwyneth Paltrow:So I just think it's, and it's good to give yourself grace and it's also good to push yourself where, you know, I don't know. I find super, yeah. It's helpful.

26:38Emily Hickey:What did it say about you? It said I was a manifester and that the, I could have told you that the gotcha is workaholic ism and being overly independent. And so sometimes, yeah, the people in your life don't, feel brought along or involved. And so, yeah, which did that ring true for you?

27:02Gwyneth Paltrow:Yeah. Yeah.

27:03Emily Hickey:It's really interesting. And it kind of repackages a bunch of really cool things. I, it's complex. I do need someone, I think.

27:11Gwyneth Paltrow:I think you do too. And I, I mean, I'm glad I bought the $47, just a 200 page thing. No, I need, I need like a coat. Is there like a person? Yeah. There, there's a person who can do it. I mean, I, yeah, I want to do it again, but, but it's, there's a, one of the big tenants of it is astrology in your chart. And this is like your thing. So.

27:34Emily Hickey:No, I saw a lot of the concepts from astrology. It's neat. Cause it's pulling concepts from astrology and the I Ching and a bunch of other things into it. And, um, so it's cool. Yeah. In a way that it's like, I've never seen it pulled together like that. How do you use, like, what are the things that you use? Do you use, I know you use astrology. I use astrology. I, um, but only again, like I don't believe in it literally, you know, the, the reason I got hooked on it, I've actually always been kind of interested in it, but I like, what do you mean you don't believe in it? Well, I, I don't, I'm not like, okay, what's the transit of Jupiter?

28:13Emily Hickey:Should I, you know, do this thing on that day? Right, right. Okay. Nor do I believe that the constellations and the stars are influencing our fate or destiny. Okay. I don't believe that. Okay. You know, but I do believe that there's, because it's been this compound, it's, it's the, these things are like the field of humanity. They've been worked on for, it's like yoga. It's like, how does this exist? you know, like it's been worked on and added to for thousands of years. And it just has this understanding and wisdom in it. And there's something about Australia and there was something just true about it.

28:50Emily Hickey:The reason I got, I read this, I sent you this book a long time ago, but I got obsessed with this book. I bought it as just a coffee table book because I needed a blue, you know, it was like a decor piece. And you're like a hedge fund person. It's like, I need a blue painting on my wall. No, but I, but I also, you know, was, I was like, oh this looks cool it's a book from like the 1900s about astrology i'm gonna you know it's actually somebody actually is that how i didn't know that's how you got into it well i mean i've been i i've had my chart read a million times but but i'd never not all astrologists are equal now i have two really good ones who i think are just like they have their 10 000 hours and they like they have such a front seat to people and they start to do all this pattern recognition of like okay, that's how, because it's complex.

29:32Emily Hickey:It's like, okay, Saturn is a planet that causes great suffering and it is, it throws obstacles in your way. So where that's always something that's like the first thing I look at. If I'm looking at a friend's chart, your Saturn isn't home. We've talked about that. Like, so what does that mean for me?

29:48Gwyneth Paltrow:My home life is a disaster. Well, no,

29:54Emily Hickey:my childhood is really fucked up. Yes. It means, yeah, there was insecurity in the childhood. that will cause you for the rest of your life, one, two, it's property accumulation and that you compensate for an emotional feeling by buying homes. Me? Who? But also, you know, how important that is to you, you know, but also it's home. So am I in the act of correct, trying to correct that by? Yeah, it's your soul's work. It's the soul's work. And that was like astrology in the Indian sense is the soul's work. It is the karmic cycles of, okay, this is everything you blew last time around in your past lives.

30:38Here's what you have to make up for this time.

30:41Emily Hickey:It's giving you a map to how to get the most out of this life from a soul's journey perspective. Western astrology is different. It's more like these are the possibilities. It's a map of your potential. It's the, like this one woman describes it as like the outside of a seed packet. You know what I mean? This is what you could become. Right. And if, and here. But not through the lens of reincarnation. No. Because culturally we don't do that. Yeah. But just through the lens of like, this is kind of, this is your blueprint, how you play your cards is one thing, but this is here for you. So it emboldens people to live a bigger, fuller life because they feel like, oh, that's there for me.

31:20Gwyneth Paltrow:Is that my main problem that Saturn's in my home?

31:23Emily Hickey:Well, by the way, and that's a dual meaning of home where it isn't just physical, like, or family or whatever, but it's just establishing the security within yourself that maybe you didn't have as a kid. Right. Right. And by the way, this is just because I've researched your chart. I couldn't look at someone else's chart. And so like, I just had spent a lot of time with your chart. We happened to start working together at a time when I was first becoming obsessed with this. And so you were my, my victim. Yeah. Outside of myself. But, um, it's a very cool place to have Saturn because it's the grindstone for how you, it's the biggest obstacles to struggle, but it's how you grow.

31:57Emily Hickey:It's the thing that gets you to an evolved state. So when you have that security within yourself, you're not always trying to fill it up with other things. It's a very evolved

32:06Gwyneth Paltrow:thing to have achieved. It's so interesting, isn't it? Because like, I definitely feel that I'm on that road, but sometimes like when I get knocked off my center, I definitely go back to a place internally that feels so wounded, raw. I don't even know how to, you know, like disoriented sort of, you know, And then it becomes my work again to create that safety for myself and like, you know, align with myself in such a strong way. And, you know, which is really like the little, like the seven-year-old.

32:42Emily Hickey:Yeah. Right. That's it. I mean, that's so interesting. And so, well, so your chart would say it also is like, so the two, the coolest things about them, I think, are where is Saturn? And then what's the north-south, south-north node axis, which is where you're coming from and where you're going.

32:59Gwyneth Paltrow:Okay.

33:00Emily Hickey:And that's the one with you was creativity is where you're coming from. You came from obviously a very creative family and being seen publicly and things like that to leadership of the group. and that you finding like wellness, like your chart has a ton of wellness in it. Like you're, that would be the sixth house. You and I both actually have Venus in that house, which is, but you also have Leo in it, which makes you better at it. You're more, I want to be as disciplined as you are, but I'm not. And you're way more punctual than I am. All your like things are your sixth house strength. You have Leo, which is strength and Venus, which is love.

33:37Emily Hickey:It's so cool. which is your health, your time management, all of that stuff is a huge strength of yours. And if you didn't have that, you would probably totally fall apart psychologically. Like that seems to be important scaffolding for you. But for anybody looking at their chart, they should immediately look at where is Saturn because that's going to be the defining struggle that is going to get me where I need to go. That's so interesting.

34:02Gwyneth Paltrow:I've never understood that before.

34:05Emily Hickey:Okay, so that's the defining. and whatever house it's in? The house is more important than the sign. So the house, you're, you're in fourth house. And so that is family and home.

34:20Emily Hickey:I know. I mean, again, I don't love it though. No, I don't. I mean, it's like that first essay that I read that got me into this was this like super Brahmin Indian woman educated in the West, whose mom dragged her back to India to have her kid because you couldn't have that. You had to name the child that you had the exact time of birth. And like, you know, and so then she started to look back at astrology and she described it as like being afraid of a ghost that you don't believe in. Like, I don't, that's how I feel about it. I don't believe in it, but there's something about it. But how do you not believe in it?

34:52Emily Hickey:You clearly believe in it. Well, no, I find it useful. Right.

34:55Gwyneth Paltrow:It's metaphorical. But isn't it only useful if you like believe in the construct otherwise?

35:00Emily Hickey:Well, it's useful and somehow true. So the metaphors of it, I mean, maybe if I had your chart, I'm like, it's so different than me and my chart. What's your chart?

35:09Gwyneth Paltrow:Give me the cliff notes. So my chart is intellect and communication.

35:15Emily Hickey:So I have two grand trines. I mean, it's very, very unusual to have two equilateral triangles. And the points of all, both of those triangles are in air signs, which is insights and communication and eloquence. and that for sure. Yeah. That's amazing.

35:32Gwyneth Paltrow:And my, what's your main struggle career career. Huh?

35:39Emily Hickey:Yeah. Which is like, it's a, it's a long game. My chart is a long game and that's, that is certainly, I mean, it's been, I guess, you know, it's like I, when I look back at the

35:49Gwyneth Paltrow:stories that you've told about the kind of path of your career and you also could have taken a completely different tact and done more creative stuff and like working in corporate, doing your own thing. How interesting actually.

36:05Emily Hickey:No, it's been a nightmare. I wouldn't wish my worst enemy, but it has been, it's given me kind of the fodder, you know, to build this platform and talk to people. But I think it's very helpful to have someone like me have such a difficult path, you know, because it gives me a lot to share and talk about. And it's where I've developed all my frameworks about business of like, I just, I've had so many years of getting out of my own dumb way. And like, yeah, so that is, it rings really true to me. And it also, my North South is coming from career. I have a lot going on in my career thing. And then, but it goes to family, which is that, that to me is the arc of my life is I work so hard to create the stability and the self-esteem and the self-esteem of the family and the ability you need resources to stay together as a family.

36:54Emily Hickey:And that's the unfortunate fact of the modern world. Otherwise it's this kid's here, this kid's there, and nobody can bring them all together at the dude ranch. And you know what I mean? Like it takes, that was always my perception. So just the corrective like efforts of my life, like really are, are to be successful, to model success for my kids and to restore the resource base to the family so that it can stay together. That's It doesn't mean that it's true. It's my own perception.

37:23Gwyneth Paltrow:And this is an area where I know AI is like a very dirty word right now, but where these LLMs are so interesting and helpful. If you put in your birthplace and your birth time, like you can have the most incredible astrological reading and you can get into dialogue with the machine about it.

37:40Emily Hickey:Yeah. And, and, you know, I was doing that with it yesterday because I couldn't remember where all your planets were, but I had remembered that your moon was in Gemini and it told me the wrong thing. I was like, wait, isn't her moon? And it was like, oh wait, yeah, good catch. So just make sure. I also think, but I do think I've had a lot of fun deep diving with LLMs on like just. It's cool with all this stuff.

38:02Gwyneth Paltrow:I don't know. I think like, of course, it's like, we have to deal with the environmental impact and all this looming, you know, uncertainty about what's going to happen. But as far as like being a woman and interested in personal development and health and wellness, like, I find it very, very enlightening and useful tool in those respects. because it's like this incredible reflection and also thought partner and researcher. And, you know, for your, for my human and personal development, it's been a really interesting tool. I totally agree.

38:46Emily Hickey:Wait, so which of these do you, do you use like numerology? like what are you using? Yes.

38:53Gwyneth Paltrow:So every year I have a numerology reading. Also my friend Amanda got me for my 50th birthday. So I had, yes, I've had three now. So every summer I do a numerology reading with this woman, Janine, who lives in South Africa. You sent her to me. Yes. And didn't you find it interesting? Yeah, I did. So I don't know, you know, it's like my friend sent me these things and I'm like, Like, cause I, you would, you would think that I would be super into all this stuff, but I'm actually, I actually haven't been historically. Okay. And, but when I was sent the human design and the numerology person, each has a 50th birthday present from two of my friends who are into the esoterics and into mediums and all that kind of thing, which I've never been that into, like I'm not drawn to it.

39:47Gwyneth Paltrow:Like sometimes a friend will be like, you have to talk to this psychic. And I actually had one that was so uncanny that Brad is convinced she somehow like, cause I used, I, I, she didn't know my name or anything and he's convinced that somehow she, she dialed it. Yeah, but it's impossible because then I did it with a friend and handed my friend my cell phone. So even if there was some reverse number search or whatever, she never would have known who she was talking to. And it was like hair raising with this woman. It was so weird. Well, it's not, it is possible. You know, it's that, it's the horizontal fabric.

40:24Gwyneth Paltrow:It's anything is possible. Can I tell you the weirdest thing? So Laurelin Jackson, who I interviewed for our Goop Netflix show a million years ago, kind of on this subject, she, I had a reading with her before she worked on the show and, you know, she, she knew all kinds of stuff. Like it was pretty bizarre. And we, you know, she was like, there's this number that you have with your dad. And when you see this number, it is him sending, like it is him sending you, you know, a message or his presence or whatever. And which is the number. Okay. And it was sort of the mythology of the house, like that had something to do with my dad.

41:10Gwyneth Paltrow:And so Laurelin knew not the number, but she knew that there was, that there was this number associated. And she was like, you know, you have to, you have to believe that this is your dad. He's really, you know, obviously she really believes this. She's a psychic medium. You have to really believe it when you see that, that, that he's there. And I see the number all the time and it'll be weird things like I'll zoom with a kid who, you know, for an interview or, you know, to, to do a recommendation to a college or something who had on his sweatshirt. And I was like, what is that? You know, it'll just be like, or I'll look at the clock and it's like that kind of thing.

41:48Gwyneth Paltrow:But I'm like, is this real? is it's not real, whatever. A couple of weeks ago, I went to Italy for the reopening of this beautiful hotel, the Villa San Michele. It's outside of Florence. And obviously I love Italy. I love to travel. And I had like the second to last dinner I ever had with my father was at this hotel. I didn't know he was dying. We were on this road trip for my 30th birthday, as you know, were sitting there. It's this beautiful hotel, like overlooking Florence and, um, you know, his eyes kind of start rolling back in his head. And I'm like, this doesn't seem normal. He's like, I'm going to bed anyway, within 48 hours, he was dead.

42:32Gwyneth Paltrow:So I was invited to this reopening of this hotel. And I've been trying to like lean back a little bit into uncomfortable things instead of girding against them, bracing it, you know, because I feel like at this point in life, if something is makes you uncomfortable or you have an aversion to it, that's just an opportunity for an exploration. And like, there's something there, right? There's just something there. So I'm like, wow, I wonder if this is going to be hard for me to go back to this hotel because it was so visceral to me. And I have so many, like, you know, those memories of my dad and him saying like, I feel better.

43:08Gwyneth Paltrow:My fever broke. Let's go to the Uffizi and all this kind of thing. So I arrived kind of late. My plane gets delayed in France and whatever. And I get to the hotel and it's late and the manager's there. And I'm like going up the hill and I'm like, Ooh, you know, I'm really feeling this, you know, and I'm like feeling him so much. And I'm like, am I going to be okay? You know, I get to the hotel, the guy couldn't be nicer. He walks me to my hotel room. It's a beautiful suite. And he's like, ah, okay. And here's your key. And he hands it to me. No,

43:47Emily Hickey:that I have goosebumps.

43:49Gwyneth Paltrow:That is into tears, like burst into weeping. Like it was the most nuts thing that has happened to me in stuff. I mean, I, I was like speechless. It's poor guy. I was like, I'm so sorry that I'm trying to explain. Um, I ate one of my last meals with my dad here, like sobbing. And so I'm like, is that, how can that not be, how can that not be a sign?

44:16Emily Hickey:I feel like it is. I mean, I don't think you, that's just unbelievable. I wish I'd known you were going through that by the way, but like that, that is unbelievable. Is that not so bizarre? And I think especially around death, it's a very open time in life that weird things like that happen and specifically in relation to death and like, no, that's insane. I know.

44:39Gwyneth Paltrow:So anyway, my, that was a very long winded way of saying that, like, there are things like that, that to me are inexplicable. And then there are things that are a bit more concrete, like the numerology framework, which is, I think also is based off the Chinese, some kind of traditional Chinese. Is it? It's from Pythagoras.

45:01Emily Hickey:It's based off of

45:02Gwyneth Paltrow:Yay, she knows it's from Pythagoras, guys.

45:07Emily Hickey:Is it possible to be pretentious while talking about numerology? So I just skated that line. I did it. So, yeah, no, it has to do with... What does it have to do with... Well, you know, he was obviously a mathematician and believed in geometry. He was also an astrologist. But he... Oh, was he?

45:27Gwyneth Paltrow:That's interesting.

45:28Emily Hickey:Yeah, everybody, Galileo, like all those guys. There was no difference between astronomy and astrology. Yeah. So, but he, he, he thought the numbers one through nine were basically the basis of the entire structure of the universe, that everything could be explained mathematically or geometrically, and that there was a vibration to each number that had certain properties to it. So in like numerology got reinvented like around 1900 or so, it got repackaged the same way that human design is kind of repackaging. It repackaged it in a way that it could be, it kind of moved into the kind of new age world.

46:03Emily Hickey:It wasn't like, so here's your life path number. It wasn't packaged like that, but it was all the same concepts of like, there's a certain vibration to each number and that means this. And, you know, so now it's like, okay, here's your life path number. Right. And there's some other concepts that I can't remember. Yours was a, um, what was your, your life path? I think mine's a nine. You're a nine. Okay. Which is what?

46:26Gwyneth Paltrow:Nine is completion.

46:28Emily Hickey:That was your year. Oh yeah. That was my year.

46:31Gwyneth Paltrow:Let's see. I feel like you might've been a one. Maybe I was, I'm going to ask, you know, who it's your, so, um, full name.

46:40Emily Hickey:So what it does for the, for anyone listening who hasn't. She's going to just talk while I do some research.

46:46Gwyneth Paltrow:Okay, guys. So it basically adds up the, it takes your full name.

46:54Emily Hickey:Yeah. And the number of letters adds those up. And then it takes your birth date and adds those up and it splices it in different ways. And it comes out with something called your life path number. Right. Which is like who you are in this life. It is a reincarnation thing. It's who you are in this life. And it is, you know, while it was repackaged in 1900 or whatever, to kind of move into this new age thing, it is based on very ancient, you know, antiquity. Again, 500, 600 BC is when Pythagoras. God, that's incredible. I know. I did talk about LLM. I went on this deep dive on a plane the other day of like, just timelining out the great eras of thought.

47:34Emily Hickey:And he like, okay, if who was, Beethoven was here and these like what, who, what was happening all at the same time, you know, just to, because you're right.

47:43Gwyneth Paltrow:My life path number is one, one, which is, which is, which is pioneer initiator, the leader, people with a life path one are typically described as independent, driven, ambitious, and built for forging new paths rather than following established ones.

47:58Emily Hickey:Yeah, that's pretty true.

48:00Gwyneth Paltrow:Yeah, quite true. What's your one? Mine is 33 slash six. that's your life number yeah wow yeah um which i i didn't talk to her much about that because we

48:15Emily Hickey:were we were we were talking mostly about my mom but it but it you're a master number in numerology

48:23Gwyneth Paltrow:it's a teacher and it is yes she's a teacher yeah spiritually demanding of the master numbers that tracks the six underneath is the number of the nurturer caretaker caretaker and harmonized are so interesting the shadow side you're said to struggle with martyrdom I don't see that over giving I see that taking on others pain perfectionism around their purpose yeah and collapsing under the weight of feeling responsible wow it's a very rare number you know the woman had the same number by the way oh really yeah that's strange see that's a weird coincidence? Well, or is it?

49:13Um, but you know what?

49:14Emily Hickey:It was helpful. She said, you know, there are helpful things about that. I remember talking to you about it right after that. And it's that whole thing of which year are you in? Right. Yours was endings.

49:25Gwyneth Paltrow:Mine. I was in, when I went, I was like going into a big endings year, nine. Yeah. And, and it was very, very, very true. Like there were, there was a lot of completions. It was like, I, I sold my house. I lost two dogs. Like my kids went to college, you know, I like moved away from certain people, you know, it was like, there was a lot of good bias that year. It was kind of uncanny, but we all have a different year, right? Like I'm in my, I'm in my personal year as a one this year, which is started.

50:00Emily Hickey:Yeah. New beginnings. New beginnings. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I think this stuff is so helpful is that it, um, again, it, it, or like what that therapist did with the I Ching, they're trying to, okay, we're, we're, we have a blind spot or we're stuck or whatever. Like, let's get out of the rational mind and think about this from another direction and go stand on some other side of the room. And it helps you. I think there's just frameworks for introspection and like, so there is something Rorschach-y about it of like, okay, I see myself in that and I get it. And that's actually a really helpful way to think about it.

50:33Emily Hickey:Or maybe there is actually some, I don't know, there's just a lot of wisdom in these, no matter what you believe, I think. So that's helpful, right? That was helpful.

50:40Gwyneth Paltrow:For me, I really like the numerology piece. I don't know. I find it orienting and I find it, I don't know. It's always nice to just have, even if it's bullshit, just to have like, you know, a companion in giving you context for things, you know, I don't know. I agree. But I kind of don't think it's bullshit. I don't think it's bullshit at all. I mean, think about how, what else, like if Pythagoras, he's like the father of... Geometry. Right. So it's not like he was a crackpot.

51:17Emily Hickey:No, many great names in antiquity were diehard astrologists. And what happened was that in the 17th century, Newtonian physics came along and codified, you know, a rule set around physical existence, like the law of gravity and things like that. And so astrology, that really is like the point in history where astrology got stigmatized and pushed to, okay, that's quack, right? But until then, the evolved point of view was that there was this property of life that something has to fill in the gaps. You know, like there's a property of life that is more elusive and, you know, interconnected. And I believe that.

52:00Gwyneth Paltrow:It's such a shame that we sort of like, that's what happened in the age of enlightenment, right? All the rationality came. Yes. Yeah. And that in the era before, was it in romanticism or the Renaissance? It came right after.

52:14Emily Hickey:So it was the reaction. What was before? Before the enlightenment would have been, I guess that was, I think it went Middle Ages, Renaissance, enlightenment, romanticism. Yeah, Renaissance, right.

52:28Gwyneth Paltrow:And that during that time? there was still a very felt sense that like muses were real. They were physical things. And you know, there was all of this kind of very stark binary way of thinking came in and then with the enlightenment, right? Yeah.

52:47Emily Hickey:Yeah. Rationalism. And I just think it's too narrow and I don't think it explains everything.

52:53Gwyneth Paltrow:I recently did this kind of cool wellness weekend with a friend of mine for her birthday. And it was, there was like, it was kind of a workshop more than a wellness weekend, but, um, but it was, it was really, it was interesting. And, and it was two therapists and these two women who run this workshop and they, their approach was very manifestation oriented, you know, like get up and say a prayer and don't, don't pray to the universe pray to your, cause the universe is too broad. It's like too blunt of an instrument. Like you're supposed to, I even forget now what you're supposed to pray to, but this kind of, um, absolute certainty around, you know, asking you shall receive like this, this power of manifestation.

53:43Gwyneth Paltrow:And, you know, you hear people like they have these mood boards that they looked at every day or these posters that they were on their wall every day growing up. And then, And, you know, so what do we, what do we think about, I mean, I don't practice this, which is probably a miss, but what do you think about manifestation? Do you believe in it? Do you practice it?

54:08Emily Hickey:I, I do believe in it and I do practice it and I don't know why, because rationally I don't believe in it and I don't hang onto it like that. I don't expect it, But I do think that there's a power to the visual imagination. I really do. There's some strange power to the, like, I think we've talked about that, how Einstein visualized the theory of relativity pictured in his head, and that's how he figured it out. You know, like, there's something about the visual imagination, I think, can problem solve, and maybe it can, maybe it is that frontal edge of, how does brain matter suddenly produce these primitive googly eyes?

54:44Emily Hickey:You're going to look at that and be like, what? Or how does something suddenly produce sexual organs so that it can reproduce? There's something improvisational about this frontal edge of life. And if there is, I just think there is. I don't know what it is. And that maybe visualizing something has some ability to create what it, you know, it's ordering it off Amazon. You know, it's pointing your arrow at it. I don't know. Or maybe it just puts you, it relaxes you so that things can flow better. I do think it can just simply be a relaxation thing of like, that's what one of these astrologists, she's this 80 year old woman in England.

55:27Emily Hickey:And Dika Begg is her name. And she is like the problem, she's been reading people's charts for years. It's a form of therapy, you know? And she's like the biggest problem in the human race is lack of patience. And people want to know what's going to happen right now. They want to look around the corner. They want to get what they're going to get. They, you know, it's the lack of patience. So maybe something about manifestation where you just visualize that you've already, you're already there or whatever it is, you know, it goes back to the

55:54Gwyneth Paltrow:rainmaker. It's like internally, if you find that wholeness and completeness, then what's meant to come will come.

56:01Emily Hickey:Yeah. That's sort of how I think about it. I don't think that there, I'm not as far as there is some connection between subjective thought and objective reality. What was that book? Was it The Secret or The Secret? Yeah, that was the thing. It's based off of a self-help book from like 1900. Like those thoughts have been, or even the 1800s, those have been floating around for a long time. That's literally based on another book. And she just kind of repackaged it and commercialized it. But whatever, it's helped so many people. But yeah, that's what that's all about.

56:31Gwyneth Paltrow:What is the theory around how that works?

56:37Emily Hickey:Well, I mean, this is where like, I think like a Joe Dispenza or like there are certain people who will say that quantum physics and the observer effect and things like that are that there's a physical property that translates subjective thought to objective reality that you can make your own reality. What's the mechanism by which that would work? Um, well, what they would say, so things like the many worlds possibility, the, the observer effect that if you look at it and you feel it, you, you create that as the pot of all the possibilities that could happen.

57:08Gwyneth Paltrow:Right. Yeah. It doesn't sound that far-fetched actually.

57:12Emily Hickey:Like when you, right. I think it, it, um, it's been such a key tool for so many, whether it's Oprah or Jim Carrey or Alan Schwarzenegger or whoever, like it's a key tool for so many successful people. and Jim Carrey does manifestation. Well, he wrote himself a$10 million check. Oprah, there was a big Oprah episode about this. So he wrote himself like a$10 million check, put it in his wallet when he was like a broke starving guy, you know, sleeping in his car. And like the, it was something like the date of the check was he got a$10 million movie. I don't know. Like he attributes that.

57:49Gwyneth Paltrow:And it happened on the date. I don't remember that exactly.

57:54Emily Hickey:I Like that where there was some uncanny, like to the day type thing. As part of what I do when I meditate, I will visualize very happy outcomes, especially when I'm feeling totally like I'm about to detonate, you know, and frazzled.

58:09Gwyneth Paltrow:So, yeah, I mean, I do think that any, any tool we have for like reminding ourselves, remembering to pull back out of the day-to-day minutia that has our nervous system so jacked and to think about things in a much more broad way is helpful.

58:29Emily Hickey:Yeah. Why would you not? I think life is hard. And I think that there's a lot of chaos on the surface of life and. Life is hard. Yeah.

58:37Gwyneth Paltrow:You know, no matter what. It is hard. it just is, I think for everybody and there are different permutations of it, but.

58:45Emily Hickey:It is. And I think it's reassuring and helpful to think that there's some arc that, you know, you can kind of poke your head up a little bit and think more broadly or that there's something they're helping and supporting you. It's nice.

58:57Gwyneth Paltrow:I think so too. Okay. So which one of these things are you going to, what has piqued your interest? Like, what are you going to look more into?

59:06Emily Hickey:Well, I'm going to find a human interest coach. Maybe you can, maybe you can.

59:09Gwyneth Paltrow:yes human design human design yeah human design I have just the person great I want to do it again too yeah we'll check back in on that okay we will Emily thank you thank you thanks for having me being here so much fun I always learn so much from you same as your um whatever in the whatever house says you're an excellent teacher and communicator well you're excellent at taking

59:35Emily Hickey:things into culture and leading us.

59:37Gwyneth Paltrow:So thank you.

59:43Gwyneth Paltrow:Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate, and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.